Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

So many bastards, so little time.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Not all heroes wear capes.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Nothing worth doing is easy.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: Even the Very Serious People Think He’s Lost the Plot

Open Thread: Even the Very Serious People Think He’s Lost the Plot

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Yes, I fully agree it’s croggling to find any point of agreement with James ‘NSA’ Clapper… but there it is.

Lord Smallgloves is well on his way to achieving a warped form of his vision of ‘America United’ — we all agree the man is lacking. And dangerous.


Even the professional Republicans!…


(Spoiler: Since the party put him in there, I’m hoping Trump’s a cannibal, who will devour the entire GOP. And maybe also Steven Miller, too.)

Reader Interactions

200Comments

  1. 1.

    JPL

    Trump has always been about himself. It’s nothing new.
    The only difference is now he has a big microphone.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    imagine being this wealthy and this powerful and this consumed with petty resentment.

    Got my lottery ticket. Hopefully, this will be me tomorrow morning.

  3. 3.

    efgoldman

    Eventually all those RWNJs on Capitol Hill are going to have to decide what side they’re on. They’ll put it off as long as they can, and senators not running this year, and a few congresscritters in really really safe seats can avoid it, but most of them are going to have to choose one way or the other.

  4. 4.

    Jeffro

    And let’s see, something like 95, 97% of this blog saw this coming? And yet, since we are not “economically anxious” Trumpov voters or “slightly disappointed Trumpov voters” or “crazy-ass Trumpov voters inside the Phoenix rally”, no one’s interviewing us.

    Wouldn’t that be something? “Can you tell us, BJ poster, how you knew that Trump was going to be a holy rolling clusterfuck from Day 1?” “Well, Andrea…”

  6. 6.

    skerry

    Why the “NSA” in Clapper’s name? He was DNI and before that was at NGA. Never at NSA the agency or National Security Advisor.

  9. 9.

    piratedan

    what is appallingly evident is that the GOP is such an embodiment of Ceek’s Law crossed with a clown car of petty vindictive morons, that they will not even impeach this clusterfuck of an administration all in the forlorn hope of getting rich people something they already have, money.

  11. 11.

    Jack the Second

    I don’t really worry about Trump being given the nuclear codes.

    So far as I know, they’re written down on paper, and don’t include his own name, so I’m not really worried about Trump reading enough of them to do anything. That would be too much like learning new information.

  12. 12.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Jeffro:

    Can you tell us, BJ poster, how you knew that Trump was going to be a holy rolling clusterfuck from Day 1?” “Well, Andrea…”

    The only thing I didn’t foresee was the rank incompetence for which I’m grateful, since it has stalled many (although not all) evil agenda items.

  14. 14.

    clay

    The folks behind the Steele Dossier testified for 10 hours to the Senate Intelligence Committee and gave over 40000 documents. They stated publicly that they stand behind the dossier and have called for the transcripts of the testimony to be released.

    Chairman Chuck Grassley said he would let the committee vote on whether to release the transcripts, and that he saw no reason to vote against it.

    On the one hand, this seems huge. On the other, I don’t trust Grassley so his assent makes me nervous. Thoughts?

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    @Peale:

    yep. But we seemed to have a lot at stake in the phony neoliberal order, so no one really cares about us.

    “So, BJ poster, can you tell us what motivated you to vote for the email-abusing, cackling, overcompensating, she-devil instead of someone who would ‘shake things up’ ?”

    “Um…none of that about Hillary is true…and nothing in this country needed ‘shaking up’, Obama put us on a good path in most respects…it didn’t take a seer to figure out how a Trumpov presidency would wreck this country’s most fundamental institutions and values…um…how do you people live with yourselves?”

    “And there you have it, Brian: ‘Liberals Still Stewing, Confused Over a Path Forward”

  22. 22.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Starfish:

    to get his numbers up.

    He doesn’t think that far. Once upon a time he used to, but these days he’s too incoherent. This is just a mean, abusive, bigoted asshole kicking whoever can’t fight back. He’s being disrespected, and it tortures him, so he lashes out.

  25. 25.

    A Ghost to Most

    @piratedan: This idea has been brewing in my head.They turned Cleek’s Law into sport, pissing off liberals for fun. Well, we’re plenty pissed off now. Time for Cleek’s Revenge.

  26. 26.

    Another Scott

    This came up yesterday (or so?): TheHill:

    The White House is almost ready to issue guidance to the Pentagon on the implementation of President Trump’s proposal to ban transgender people from serving in the military.

    The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday that a White House memo will direct the Defense Department on details related to Trump’s intention to bar transgender people from being admitted to the military.

    Under the new policy, Defense Secretary James Mattis would have to consider a service member’s ability to deploy in deciding whether to remove them from the military.

    […]

    They’re almost ready!!1 Pretty soon!!1 :-/

    It sounds like there’s gong to be enough wiggle room that the DoD can effectively ignore the “ban” if/when Donnie’s minions do actually finish with the guidance.

    Fortunately.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: good one but I think you give him too much credit. He is damaged, a violent bully, not a otherworldly manipulator. Frank, not the Mule.

  30. 30.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Jeffro: I have not seen a single story about WWC in my neck of the woods that went overwhelmingly for HRC we are pretty rural and more than 80% white, she got 60 to 70 percent of the vote in many towns here. In the occasional town won by Trump, the margin of victory was razor thin,

  31. 31.

    NorthLeft12

    @Jeffro: Most of the media are not interested in talking to people that were/are right about virtually anything. Apparently they find it more amusing/entertaining/popular to interview people that are habitually wrong about virtually everything.
    I would like someone to explain the reasoning behind the massive amount of airtime and article space given to people that are consistently uninformed and mistaken about the past, present, and most likely, the future.

  33. 33.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @clay: I did a long piece on the Steele Dossier a while back. I pulled apart the claims so that I could see how they stack up as more information becomes available. Trouble is that the news articles are really time-consuming to pull apart for actual content, so I have been lazy about getting to it, but I’ve been thinking more and more that I should. My general sense is that some of the claims have been supported and none completely refuted.

  34. 34.

    Mnemosyne

    I have to log off in 15 minutes and clean out the pantry. There are some very scary things in there that probably closely resemble our asterisk president.

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The only good thing is he’s taking the entire GOP down with him.

    That party needs to be annihilated. It’s an evil repository of racism, greed, and selfishness.

  40. 40.

    Yarrow

    @NorthLeft12:

    Most of the media are not interested in talking to people that were/are right about virtually anything. Apparently they find it more amusing/entertaining/popular to interview people that are habitually wrong about virtually everything.
    I would like someone to explain the reasoning behind the massive amount of airtime and article space given to people that are consistently uninformed and mistaken about the past, present, and most likely, the future.

    Wouldn’t that be a nice idea for a news network. They only bring on people who have been proven right about things. If you’re a pundit or a supposed expert and you’ve been shown to be wrong on a regular basis, you never get invited on any programs. Only people who are smart, with proven track records of being right about things.

  41. 41.

    mai naem mobile

    I never paid attention to Dolt45 when he had his show . Not when he got into it with Rosie ODonnell. To me he was just some self promoting asshole NY real estate person. Even in the birther thing I remembered Orly Titz more on the birther stuff than Dolt. Even I thought there was something serioisly off about him during the campaign. These people are figuring this out now? Fucking for real? Paul Fucking Ryan, Reince,Pence and McConnell met and talked to this mentally ill demented old man several times during the campaign and thought it was ok for him to become POTUS. They all need to fucking pray in a monastery in Tibet for the rest of their miserable lives and just ask for forgiveness. Assholes and their fucking tax cuts.

  44. 44.

    efgoldman

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    he’s taking the entire GOP down with him.

    They’re like the undead in a Steven King story, though. In 1974, when Tricksie Dicksie got on the helicopter, we thought the Republiklowns were dead for a generation. In 1980, Sanctus Ronaldus Maximus won the WH.

  47. 47.

    Vhh

    @Jeffro: Anyone who knows Soviet/Russian history incl their spying and propaganda techniques (bonus points for reading Russian) has known ever since Manafort ran the campaign last May has known that something stinks. I was driving friends crazy with this all last summer. And now look. The media and Comey failed us badly.

  48. 48.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Immanentize: There is a working farm on the street where I live and several within a radius of 5 miles. So realest of real Americans as defined by Sarah Palin live here, some even trace their ancestry to the Pilgrims (my old neighbor did. Her grandparents still worked on the farm that has been in their family from the 1700s)

  52. 52.

    burnspbesq

    @NotMax:

    Virginia GOP leaps into a deep puddle of waste with both feet.

    They later deleted the tweets, saying they were being interpreted in a way that was not intended. Like hell they were, you jackalopes.

  53. 53.

    efgoldman

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There is a working farm on the street where I live and several within a radius of 5 miles.

    Is the bison farm still on route 9 in Hadley, on the way to UMass?

  56. 56.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    The amazing thing to me is that Republican politicians are still stumbling around all befuddled like they couldn’t see this all coming. How could anybody have looked at this loser and not seen that this was inevitable? I’m no genius, and I knew this was what was going to happen a year ago if he somehow slank into office. These guys couldn’t tell? They had no clue? Really? I know this is kind of a sidelight to this whole freak show, but the continual, deer-in-the-headlights, no-clue-this-was-coming surprise these guys all show just flat out floors me. I want to know what that’s all about. Did they truly have no earthly idea this might happen? Or did they fear it, deep down, all along and only hoped that if they kept looking the other way, maybe it wouldn’t really happen, or, of it did, they could somehow get away without Trump setting them on fire, too?

    People are going to write fucking books about the sheer idiocy of these gutless morons, and I want to buy every God damned one of them and read every last page.

  57. 57.

    Vhh

    @Jeffro: Anyone who knows Soviet/Russian history incl their spying and propaganda techniques (bonus points for reading Russian) has known ever since Manafort ran the campaign last May that something stinks. I was driving friends crazy with this all last summer. And now look. The media and Comey failed us badly.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    @Vhh: Klaxons were screaming in July 2016 but too many refused to hear them:

    By Josh Rogin July 18, 2016

    The Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces, contradicting the view of almost all Republican foreign policy leaders in Washington.

    Throughout the campaign, Trump has been dismissive of calls for supporting the Ukraine government as it fights an ongoing Russian-led intervention. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, worked as a lobbyist for the Russian-backed former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych for more than a decade.

    Still, Republican delegates at last week’s national security committee platform meeting in Cleveland were surprised when the Trump campaign orchestrated a set of events to make sure that the GOP would not pledge to give Ukraine the weapons it has been asking for from the United States.

    Inside the meeting, Diana Denman, a platform committee member from Texas who was a Ted Cruz supporter, proposed a platform amendment that would call for maintaining or increasing sanctions against Russia, increasing aid for Ukraine and “providing lethal defensive weapons” to the Ukrainian military.

    “Today, the post-Cold War ideal of a ‘Europe whole and free’ is being severely tested by Russia’s ongoing military aggression in Ukraine,” the amendment read. “The Ukrainian people deserve our admiration and support in their struggle.”

    Trump staffers in the room, who are not delegates but are there to oversee the process, intervened. By working with pro-Trump delegates, they were able to get the issue tabled while they devised a method to roll back the language.

    On the sideline, Denman tried to persuade the Trump staffers not to change the language, but failed. “I was troubled when they put aside my amendment and then watered it down,” Denman told me. “I said, ‘What is your problem with a country that wants to remain free?’ It seems like a simple thing.”

    Finally, Trump staffers wrote an amendment to Denman’s amendment that stripped out the platform’s call for “providing lethal defensive weapons” and replaced it with softer language calling for “appropriate assistance.”

    I wonder if Denman has figured it out yet…

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    Ruckus

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I did not see McConnell’s being as useless as tits on a boar coming.

    You didn’t? He’s been this bad for the last 20+ yrs. He wasn’t in a powerful enough position to make things worse most of those yrs but since the moment he stepped into the limelight/majority he’s been a worthless shit.

  62. 62.

    efgoldman

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There used to be signs for it, but now I don’t seem them anymore

    It used to amuse us when we picked up, dropped off, or visited daughter, but we haven’t been up there since she graduated in 2003.

  65. 65.

    Cheryl Rofer

    This guy is a real meterologist, but it’s always hard for a non-expert to evaluate these things. The official forecast is something like 10-15 inches, which is bad enough. People in the areas where this storm is predicted to hit should be aware of the possibility of flooding.

  66. 66.

    Chet Murthy

    Watching Dr. Maddow. And she’s doing her “educate the inattentive students who fucking failed American History” schtick. *Bow* She’s a national treasure.

  67. 67.

    efgoldman

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    People in the areas where this storm is predicted to hit should be aware of the possibility of flooding.

    And also prepared for no federal declaration of a disaster area, meaning no federal aid.
    This is who and what they voted for.

    Fuckem.

  68. 68.

    Felonius Monk

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    He’s just an asshole.

    But an asshole with early onset dementia sitting in the Oval Office is a dangerous ASSHOLE even if he is an Orange Joke.

  70. 70.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @efgoldman:

    Yeah, but a lot of people who are going to get reamed didn’t vote for these assholes. That’s the hell of it. When people say shit like, “Hell, let’s just let Texas secede and be done with it,” it drives me nuts, since a whole lot of people who are good people would get fucked if they found themselves in an independent Texas not bound by any federal laws or decency..

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Chet Murthy:

    And she’s doing her “educate the inattentive students who fucking failed American History” schtick.

    That is a good description of her. And of why her long intros often annoy me. “i already know this.” As it turns out, many don’t. I don’t want to back pat too much, but a shit ton of us here are well educated (formally or informally) and are politically junkies. The normals don’t necessarily have the background info that we do.

  75. 75.

    GregB

    Listening to former DNI Clapper and former CIA chief McLaughlin ringing alarm bells is sort of…..alarming.

    They know enough about profiling to glean that Trump is really fucking nuts.

    They are probably getting calls from every intelligence agency on the planet telling the Trump is veering in to Hitler in the bunker mode.

  77. 77.

    Yarrow

    @Cheryl Rofer: Recon has just flown Harvey and has found the center of circulation is further east than previously found. So the models will have to reinitialize using that data and that will change things. Everyone from northern Mexico through the eastern Louisiana coast needs to be paying attention to this thing. It’s shaping up to be a really weird storm and potentially bringing massive flooding. Could be more than one landfall if it loops back into the Gulf as some models have shown.

  79. 79.

    Another Scott

    @Cheryl Rofer: (Not directed at you, but just a general observation:) The simulation summary graph is scary, but the legend tops out at 24″. Where does the 48″ come from? (I went over to TropicalTidbits but I don’t know enough about the site to figure out where the graph came from…)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  80. 80.

    Gozer

    @Vhh:
    Same. Many of my friends (almost all super-left Berniestas) discounted much of the shit I was saying throughout most of 2016. Some were dismissive due to my military background (“Of course you’re going hard against the Russians…because Army or some other kind of fucking bullshit” or my favorite “Well…let us not forget Mossadegh, Arbenz, and Allende”).

    I’m happy that they’ve now come around, but every time they say some shit about how awful the Russia situation is I just want to scream and break shit.

  81. 81.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: They work for my mom. She is a solid liberal, but not a politics junkie. RM gives her background. You and I aren’t RM’s target audience; my mom is. FWIW, my dad is practical radical. He is the person in my family I thought was most likely to be a Bernie guy. His view was that Bernie had some nice ideas, but had no idea how to implement them – thus pro-Hilz.

  82. 82.

    Felonius Monk

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Her intros go on and on and on. Boring!

    Her intros are lengthy, highly detailed, and logically constructed , but if the topic is of interest, they are not boring.

  83. 83.

    justawriter

    Just hoping that the powers that be don’t lose the thread that the big opportunity here is using Lord Smallhands as a bludgeon in ’18 and ’20 not to win the presidency or even the House and Senate but to win enough local legislative seats to prevent the fascists from gerrymandering the realignment after the next census.

  84. 84.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Another Scott: I would have liked to see more, but Holthaus only tweeted the graph. Sounds like he just finished the calculations and hasn’t written more than the tweets. I follow him, and it looks like others do, so I’ll continue to update. Yarrow points out that the storm is moving in unexpected ways. Landfall is supposed to be Friday afternoon, so there’s still lots of time for zigs and zags. As Yarrow says, if you’re on the Gulf Coast, be prepared for a lot of rain.

  86. 86.

    TenguPhule

    @efgoldman:

    If you vote for assholes (or fail to vote against them, as Texans do in huge numbers) then you get this kind of bullshit governance.

    Can we at least limit the spite to districts? Even I don’t think the whole state needs to condemned en masse.

  87. 87.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman:

    And also prepared for no federal declaration of a disaster area, meaning no federal aid.
    This is who and what they voted for.

    Fuckem.

    If you look at this map, you can see that a lot of counties that may be affected, especially those in south Texas, did not vote for Trump. The two blue counties just inland are where Houston is–massive population center. Massive flooding is currently anticipated in Houston.

    You’re also blaming victims to a certain extent because the Texas voter ID restrictions have made it very hard for non-white people to vote.

  89. 89.

    Gozer

    Another disappointment: Aside from working for Soulless Major Corporation I also teach yoga a couple days a week. I recently friended one of my regular students on the Book of Faces. Her and her husband have always been the nicest to both me and my wife. Super friendly. All that good shit…

    All she posts and likes are things from Rush Limbaugh and articles about how evil and destructive antifa is. I’m not exactly in the Pennsyltucky-est area of PA (just beyond the edge of the Philly metro) so it’s not exactly surprising, but still, disappointing.

  90. 90.

    Chet Murthy

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    As it turns out, many don’t.

    *Precisely*. For myself, I still remember Mr. Witherspoon, in Freshman Am. Hist., telling us that one of the things that differentiated us from Europe, that made us *free*, was that you didn’t need to carry your papers, when you travelled in “our country”. Oh, and many other things, but this is the one that comes to mind.

    Yeah, we have “greater than room temperature” IQs. But she’s aiming to educate the vast bulk of America. God’s work. God’s work. And I’m an atheist.

  92. 92.

    efgoldman

    @Yarrow:

    You’re also blaming victims to a certain extent because the Texas voter ID restrictions have made it very hard for non-white people to vote.

    To call the Texas Democratic party “moribund” is to grant it much more power than it has. That’s been the observation of liberal/Democratic Texans, not me, for several cycles,

  94. 94.

    Chet Murthy

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The normals don’t necessarily have the background info that we do.

    Omnes, for all that I’m such a booster of Dr. Maddow, I’m *wildly* angry at my fellow citizens. They *f**king failed* American History, ditto Government, ditto World History. I’m *livid* that these wastes of -oxygen- get to decide that I’m less of an American than they are. f******k.

    I am in awe of Dr. Maddow’s patience and care in trying to educate these mouth-breathers — the imbeciles … IMBECILES I used to argue with in the lunch line in middle school, about evolution. I *kid* *you* *not*.

  95. 95.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: This is the same issue that leads people to think that “putting something in a museum” is code for “throw thing away where it will never been seen again”.

  97. 97.

    ruemara

    @Major Major Major Major: Oh, I would love this. I could limber up my cussing muscles for each interview.

    I’ll say it. I honestly think this lunatic in charge is either going to stroke out or eat a bullet. He is falling apart because he’s an utter failure at presidentin’ especially compared to former Prez Darkbama everyone is laughing at him, talking down to him, his “brilliant” idea of surrounding himself with shiny generals only elevates the generals and leaders around the world are cutting him out of everything possible rather than deal with him. He is gonna ragequit life one way or the other. He won’t resign because he knows he didn’t have a victory. If his family has any capacity to love him (HA!) and care for him (ROFLMAO), they better turn in some evidence, cut a deal and have him carried away in a straight jacket.

  98. 98.

    Chet Murthy

    @schrodingers_cat: SC, thank you, and wow, your further comment …. , . I had no idea. But then, I spend my time cringing about America and American iniquity, not India, and Indian iniquity. So much American iniquity, so little time. So much that direclty contradicts what Mr. Witherspoon taught us in Freshman American History.

  101. 101.

    Suzanne

    @Chet Murthy: So my kid had to take a civics test last year (8th grade). Their social studies teacher was doing the civics u it, and asked if anyone knew who the Speaker of the House is. My kid said “Paul Ryan”, and her teacher, who was notorious for saying pro-Dampnut things in class, told her that she was wrong and that the Speaker is John Boehner. The next day, teacher admitted she was wrong, but told the kids that the test would likely be out of date, so they should answer with Boehner to that question. This dumbass is LITERALLY TEACHING HISTORY AND CIVICS.

    Arizona has a requirement that you score 65% or better on that civics test in senior year in order to graduate. My kid got a 97% in 8th grade.

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne: Okay, full disclosure: I have been drinking and watching an evening of CSPAN3 programming about the Salem Witch Trials. Given that, I agree with you. Also too, posh elitists go to museums. Real Americans go to theme parks.

  103. 103.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman: You’re still suggesting that people who voted for Hillary should not get any assistance after a natural disaster because they live in a state where the majority of people voted for Trump. I guess it’s okay to wish that Hillary voters suffer because the Texas Democratic party sucks?

  106. 106.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: I wouldn’t call my trip to the Idaho Potato Museum “posh”.

    Though I have a story about going to the Crystal Bridges Museum in Bentonville, and watching dozens of people touching the art….despite getting an in-person lecture about not touching the art before being allowed to enter the galleries.

    Hell is other (Republican) people.

  107. 107.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Chet Murthy:

    Omnes, for all that I’m such a booster of Dr. Maddow, I’m *wildly* angry at my fellow citizens. They *f**king failed* American History, ditto Government, ditto World History. I’m *livid* that these wastes of -oxygen- get to decide that I’m less of an American than they are. f******k.

    In my darkest moments, I’ve wished all 62 million who voted for Trump would just keel over and die in the most slow, humilating way possible.

    They don’t deserve to live in a free society. They can’t even begin to understand how badly they fucked up.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-dont-know-how-it-got-this-bad-trump-supporters-and-protesters-meet-in-phoenix/2017/08/23/ac8d85a0-8815-11e7-a94f-3139abce39f5_story.html

    On the other side of the convention center, rallygoers stood in line along a street protected by trash and recycling trucks. A protester in a floppy hat held a neon pink sign reading “Trump the Ignoramus” and loudly mocked the president for avoiding the draft and for not following through on many of his campaign promises, such as building a wall and locking up his political rival, Hillary Clinton.

    “He’s a chicken! Chicken!” the man shouted.

    “I don’t even know what he’s saying,” Robyn Elam, 28, said to a friend as the line inched forward. “I can’t understand him at all.”

    Elam said she’s glad Trump ignored the pleas from Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton (D) to delay the event because the country is so divided following a rally in Charlottesville earlier this month that attracted hundreds of white supremacists and neo-Nazis and ended in violence.

    Elam, who works in the health-care industry and lives in Tempe, Ariz., said she’s alarmed to see cities remove monuments to Confederate leaders, an action she compared theoretically to conservatives removing the statues of civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr.

    “Personally, I like the statues being up. To me, it’s not celebrating racism; it’s remembering the past,” she said. “If you try to erase history, how do you remember the past?” “To me, he loves America — and you can’t fake that,” she said of Trump, as others in line voiced their agreement. “Am I right? You can’t fake it.”

    She struggled to list what Trump has done as president that she likes. For her, success is more of a feeling than a laundry list of actions.

    This Robyn Elam is example of what I’m talking about. People like her are too mentally feeble to support a free society. There are too many like her.

  109. 109.

    Suzanne

    @ruemara: Normally, I get annoyed when people complain about “not being able to fire bad teachers”, but I would have made an exception for this lady.

  111. 111.

    efgoldman

    @Yarrow:

    I guess it’s okay to wish that Hillary voters suffer because the Texas Democratic party sucks?

    People everywhere need to get off their asses and take action on their own behalf. I’m tired of Democrats adopting the RWNJ framing of “oh woe is us! We are all victims here!” California didn’t turn blue because people sat around feeling sorry for themselves – they got pissed off and took action. Virginia has gone from red to purple, trending toward blue. North Carolina, despite an evil, revanchist governing party, is edging toward purple. People who know more than I do think Georgia is heading that way.
    Texas is bigger, but why should it be different?

  116. 116.

    Yarrow

    @Suzanne: That is really pathetic. Ryan’s been Speaker for ages now. Boehner leaving mid-term made a lot of news. Someone should call the news and let them know what the schools are teaching. This teacher is an idiot.

  120. 120.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I live in WI. We are rather fucked for now. I blame voter suppression, but we are still fucked.

    Since your Democratic party doesn’t totally suck, then you are worthy of assistance after any natural disaster.

  121. 121.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Yarrow: If success is just a feeling than anyone can be successful. No one can ever fail.

    In reality, she’s just an idiot making up excuses to defend her Dear Leader.

    Besides that, the remarks about the removals of the Confederate monuments were stupid and uninformed. She’s doesn’t really care about the history behind them and is just reflexively defending them because lefties want the statues taken down.

  122. 122.

    Chet Murthy

    @Suzanne:
    I’m sorry, some of what I wrote below is just the bellowing of that child who realized so long ago, that he’d been ill-done-by. For your child, all I can say is: find a way to convince your school to allow your child to take classes at some nearby college. It can’t be worse, and it might be better. I remember I took Econ at the local community college (“Harvard on the Hill” – literally, up the hill from our H.S.) and the econ teacher taught us that “there are two conservative parties in the U.S.” And this in *Texas goddamn*. Insightful man. He taught us a lot. A lot.

    And of course, as I bellow below, to whatever extent you can, try to help your child understand that the intellectual standards of their peers and teachers are *for* *naught*. I’m sure you can introduce your child to intelligent and educated folk, who can help your child to understand what real knowledge is. And …. well, something else: Back then I read voraciously. Most of it, science fiction. Which was pretty useless. But OTOH, as *practice* for how to learn, it was actually excellent. More than any other skill, the skill of reading, and reading a *lot*, is going to be valuable. So that, sure, your child doesn’t learn diddly in school. But they can learn for themselves. Maybe not even right away. But eventually. The skill of reading a shit-ton …. is a high-interest CD.

    ======================
    Suzanne, I don’t recall where in these United States you live. Where I grew up (Mineral Wells & Weatherford TX), Mrs. Scott taught us that the Garden of Eden existed; Mrs Shoemake that the Flood actually happened; Ms. (in “health”) that the (and I quote, I F**KING QUOTE, 36 YEARS LATER, IT’S STILL SO INFURIATING) “myocardium is a wall of muscle surrounding and protecting the heart”.

    Imbeciles. Imbeciles. Except: I remember Mr. Witherspoon (Am. Hist). Mrs. Vise (Math),and a couple of English teachers whose names escape me (but their faces do not). The rest? Wastes of protoplasm.

    I used to tell people that my having survived and gotten an education in that system was proof that your child’s education had *nothing* to do with the school, and everything to do with your parenting. That the *most* you could expect your child to learn in school, was how to deal with their intellectual inferiors (and hence, physical superiors, who would beat the shit out of them). In short, how to navigate the world of imbeciles as a thinking human being.

    That’s it. That’s it.

    I’m so sorry your child has to put up with this. I remember when my mother went to complain to the superintendent of my school district (who had been my vice-principal) b/c my youngest sister was bored in school. Mr. Lee responded that “you shouldn’t have taught her how to read — then she’d have had something to do”. My mother pulled my sisters out of school posthaste.

    Imbeciles. Imbeciles.

  125. 125.

    Peale

    @NoraLenderbee: Ann Richards lost. GOP realized that they could take a slight majority in the house delegation and state legislature and turn it into a big one by redistricting in 2003. GWBs only GOP house pick ups in 2004 came in those redistricted seats.

    The real question is why did the Wisconsin dems assume that their GOP was different.

  127. 127.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Oh I’m not surrendering. I’m just livid that someone like Elam exists and can actually decide the fates of millions of people

    More idiots:

    Austin Knaust, a 24-year-old self-employed trucker, had finally made his way past the screaming protesters and into the rally hall. He’s surprised by the backlash following what happened in Charlottesville — he thought the president’s comments “nailed it right on the head.”

    “I think there’s blame on both sides,” he said, as a song from the musical “Cats” blared in the rally hall. “Just because someone wants to protest doesn’t mean that someone should antagonize them.”

    But what if those people protesting are yelling anti-Semitic things?

    “It’s ridiculous, because they can sit there and call [Trump] a Nazi and call him all this stuff because he didn’t call them white supremacists?” Knaust said. “Well, what did Obama do for eight years? Obama didn’t call Muslim terrorists Muslim terrorists, so does that make him a Muslim terrorist? It doesn’t make sense.”

    […]

    Outside the convention center, many people thought the rally had ended because hundreds of Trump supporters had left early and were streaming into the streets.

    Jaclyn Boyles, a nonprofit employee with dark braids, held a sign with a photo of Heather Heyer, the woman who died while demonstrating against bigotry in Charlottesville. Boyles, 35, wanted Trump to refer to the violence as she saw it: terrorism.

    “He’ll speak out against terrorists within hours if it happens in Barcelona,” she said.

    Dejan Knezevic, a 44-year-old Phoenix resident who supports Trump, pointed his phone at Boyles — he was live-streaming the evening — and asked if she would say the same of antifa.

    Knezevic, an IT specialist, said he stood against neo-Nazis and the KKK but that Democrats need to condemn protesters on the left sparking mayhem.

    “They have the communist flag, but none of you guys will denounce them,” Knezevic told Boyle.

    “Why isn’t the president standing up against domestic terrorism?” she shot back.

    “We agree with you there! We agree!” yelled a man in an American flag bandanna behind Knezevic’s shoulder. “But it’s got to be even across the board.”

  130. 130.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman: It’s not different. Texas Democrats may be behind those other states, but they’re working on it. This is from the 2016 election:

    Ending a streak of thin electoral margins, Harris County — the biggest battleground in ruby red Texas with a population larger than 25 other states — turned solidly blue on Tuesday with the largest presidential margin of victory in more than a decade.

    The blue wave was apparent up and down the ballot on a banner night for the county’s Democrats.

    They swept up every single countywide seat, including the district attorney and sheriff’s offices. They flipped a Texas House district in Pasadena. And with a presidential fight at the top of the ticket, Democrats shored up their lead in the fight for the typically purple county with Hillary Clinton beating Donald Trump by more than 160,000 votes — up from the 971 votes with which Obama took the county in 2012.

    But, as you said, Democratic voters in Texas all suck and deserve to drown in this potential upcoming flooding disaster. Or, if they don’t drown, they certainly don’t deserve any assistance when they lose everything.

  131. 131.

    Chet Murthy

    @Peale:

    The real question is why did the Wisconsin dems assume that their GOP was different.

    For all my visceral *hate* (at this point) I can understand this. The Dems don’t want to view Rs as the *enemy*. They want to view them as the *opposition* (as in “loyal opposition”). B/c without that, without the assumption that the other side is part of system, we lose the possibility of democracy. But the Rs didn’t do that — b/c they don’t care about democracy anymore — they only care about winning.

    Yeah, I get bitter too about the way the Dems unilaterally disarmed over and over. But the alternative was to have the Dem party turn into some sort of … idunno what, but not a participant in a democracy.

    At least, that’s my story.

    Thing is, there comes a point where you stop believing in democracy, and start defending your interests. I wonder when that happens.

  133. 133.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Chet Murthy:

    Thing is, there comes a point where you stop believing in democracy, and start defending your interests. I wonder when that happens.

    It’s already starting.

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    In case my comment doesn’t get out of moderation:

    Oh I’m not surrendering. I’m just livid that someone like Elam exists and can actually decide the fates of millions of people

  134. 134.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: She’s an idiot and I am embarrassed to be from the same state as her
    @ruemara: Robyn Elam is on twitter. Let her know what you think of her
    @Suzanne: how could she not know Paul Ryan was the Speaker? Your kid told her. It literally means she doesn’t follow the news at all because if she did she would have explained the Boehner answer right then. She should be fired.

  135. 135.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Austin Knaust, a 24-year-old self-employed trucker, had finally made his way past the screaming protesters and into the rally hall. He’s surprised by the backlash following what happened in Charlottesville — he thought the president’s comments “nailed it right on the head.”

    “I think there’s blame on both sides,” he said, as a song from the musical “Cats” blared in the rally hall. “Just because someone wants to protest doesn’t mean that someone should antagonize them.”

    But what if those people protesting are yelling anti-Semitic things?

    “It’s ridiculous, because they can sit there and call [Trump] a Nazi and call him all this stuff because he didn’t call them white supremacists?” Knaust said. “Well, what did Obama do for eight years? Obama didn’t call Muslim terrorists Muslim terrorists, so does that make him a Muslim terrorist? It doesn’t make sense.”

    Can anybody unpack this?

  136. 136.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Peale:

    The real question is why did the Wisconsin dems assume that their GOP was different.

    Voter suppression. Look at Milwaukee County.

  137. 137.

    Aleta

    @Yarrow:

    For her, success is more of a feeling

    Like the feeling of riding in a rented limo or buying an expensive lipstick ? Or is it that thing you must keep believing in so the pyramid scheme you bought into will work out? Sounds like success seminar cult talk.

  138. 138.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Mai.naem.mobile:
    Not the same Robyn Elam, I think.

    ETA: A short profile she apparently made herself on a site called Trumpettes USA:

    http://trumpettesusa.com/index.php/trumpettes/robyn-elam/

    I’m a 28 year old millennial female in AZ. I grew up a conservative catholic Republican. I fully back Donald J Trump. I’m also currently a bridal consultant but my true passion is politics. Politics and shopping!

    Live, love and make America great again!

  140. 140.

    Chet Murthy

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    It’s already starting.

    Goku, I’ll believe it’s starting when state leges pass bills doing things like:

    (a) setting up secession (in concert with other states)

    (b) “FYIGM” laws mandating that the USG spend in-state all tax dollars collected in the state.

    When blue states start passing nullification laws, I’ll believe that they’re defending their interests.

    Perhaps you meant -individuals- defending their interests. Frankly, I don’t buy it. I believe that government has a purpose and a role in modern life. Only thru governments, can individuals effect change on the world.

    N.B.: obviously such laws will have zero effect (constitutional supremacy). But it’s a start. If the 2018/2020 elections are unfree, then the blue states could move along to more-drastic measures. Like arresting federal agents, calling up the national guard and putting them under state control (daring the USG to do something about it). I’m not saying that this’ll happen.

    But y’know, the Rs have gone balls-to-the-wall for a lotta years, basically daring the Dems to cut up the baby. Day’s gonna come, when the Dems need to return that favor.

    ETA: And yeah, the endgame’s civil war, which is why it should probably wait until after 2020. But if democracy ends in the US, there’s no longer a downside.

  144. 144.

    frosty

    I’ve got 2 in moderation because of a typo in my email address. I blame this iPhone keyboard. Or Demon Rum.

  148. 148.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: She struggled to list what Trump has done as president that she likes. For her, success is more of a feeling than a laundry list of actions.

    That feeling being: “You all said he was stupid and I was stupid for liking him but now he’s president so I guess he’s not so stupid and that means I’m not stupid.”

  150. 150.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
    Stewardess, I speak Racist.

    The point is that Obama, already suspiciously brown and with a funny name, never leaped to condemn Islam as evil. He specifically tried to avoid phrasings that implied Muslim = Terrorist. To a racist who finds brown people suspicious and white supremacist arguments reasonable, this is equivalent to refusing to blame Nazis. His point is that we ignored Obama’s equivalent behaviour, and thus our criticizing Trump is hollow.

  151. 151.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Chet Murthy:
    I suppose that the Cvill shit and Trump supporters’ reaction to it (along with Trump’s continued need for rallies) has freaked me out. I see this country headed down a dark place potentially. A place I wouldn’t want to live in. And I’m a white male.

    I have better days and it’s always nice to see the RW tripping over their own dicks, but I really worry about the US slipping into a pseudo-democratic hellhole. I guess I just see all of the prerequisites here.

  152. 152.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @The Lodger:
    It pissed me off to see someone pretending to be someone who saves lives and takes care of ill people. I’m going to school for nursing to its a little bit of berserk button for me.

  153. 153.

    Aleta

    @Yarrow: I think the books and the TV show delivered a lot of supporters, people who believe if they get close to wealth, or buy a book or wear the clothes, opportunity will come their way. (Or spiritual advancement or health.) From there it’s not such a big step to believe that putting him in office might help one advance. Then he went around and promised it, and packed his rallies with people who were buying in. And Fox said it was real. Cult dynamics.

  154. 154.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Aleta:
    Success is always a feeling. Emotion first, logic later. That is how the brain works. In this case there is a short circuit, because following her feelings all the way through would lead to a conclusion that can’t be true – that she’s a spiteful racist who enjoys seeing a whiny baby in power and hearing about how America is getting uglier for colored people.

  155. 155.

    Chet Murthy

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Goku, I’m not that far away (I think). I look at Kobach’s work in Kansas, and imagine it nationwide. And then, well, currently solid-blue states may stay that way, but no red state will turn blue. Ever. Democracy might die. But that’s -might-.

    Dr. Maddow had a segment tonight about Mt. Ary, IA, and some guy who gave Sen Grassley what-for, about the Fusion GPS testimony on the Steele dossier. They guy -really- wanted all testimony released. Pushed hard. In Mt. Ary, IA. town of … 3k (?) people.

    There’s still the possibility that the American people will rise up and throw off these fascists. Of course, there’s the possibility that they won’t. And if that happens, can I say this:

    Look to your fellow citizens, and your states, to preserve democracy. The way I look at it, if a fascist power -actually- usurps the Federal Government, then, well, yeah, it’s time for civil war. But that’s gonna be a war between the states, not between individuals. We need government, and we need organized civil authority.

    But we’re a long ways away.

    All that said, yeah, it’s a scary time. If I lived in Texas, I’d be moving away. The only reason I feel safe, is that I’m in California, and surrounded by tens of millions of hispanics and asians — I KNOW they’re not gonna give up without a fight. When I go to Chinatown for take-out dim-sum, and the lady behind the counter can’t speak English, I -exult-. She’s in this fight alongside me.

    Maybe that’s a useful suggestion: go to your nearest immigrant neighborhood, and patronize restaurants or establishments there. You might find that it makes you feel a shit-ton better. They’re gonna fight.

  156. 156.

    Ruckus

    @Aleta:
    Your last two words say it all cult dynamics.
    That is basically what drumpf is, a cult leader. It’s what he’s always wanted to be, the next L. Ron. Except he isn’t near as smart as L. Ron. And that’s saying something. They like him because he isn’t any smarter than they are. They like him because he’s dumb as a post and far wealthier than they are. OK he isn’t but they don’t know that because they are cult followers. He’s got his name on buildings! For fuck sake that must mean he’s smart and wealthy. They don’t need real gold, or a real leader, that fake stuff fooled them just fine. Cultists.

  158. 158.

    Redshift

    @efgoldman:

    Virginia has gone from red to purple, trending toward blue. North Carolina, despite an evil, revanchist governing party, is edging toward purple. People who know more than I do think Georgia is heading that way.
    Texas is bigger, but why should it be different?

    Yeah, Virginia definitely got there just by our own bootstraps, with people from other states telling us we deserved whatever we got until we elected Democrats and became worthy…

  159. 159.

    patrick II

    Lawrence O’ Donnell made Rachel Maddow blush bright red during the transition tonight when he teased her about her new “boyfriend”, a participant at Chuck Grassley’s town hall. It was cute to see the professor get a little flustered.

  160. 160.

    danielx

    @Jeffro:

    We should only live so long.

    Seriously, it wasn’t like his history of emotional instability and immaturity was secret, not to mention his less than savory business dealings and his complete disregard for anything not pertinent to the wealth and image of his very own self.

  161. 161.

    Achrachno

    @Yarrow: “But, as you said, Democratic voters in Texas all suck and deserve to drown in this potential upcoming flooding disaster. ”

    He didn’t say that. If you’re going to discuss, you have to be fair and accurate. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.

    “Or, if they don’t drown, they certainly don’t deserve any assistance when they lose everything.”

    There’s a high probability that assistance will not come, or will be inadequate, because Reps. are in charge. That’s the ugly reality that grew out of the fact that Dem turn out was way down in 2016 in many places, and is often weaker than it should be. If people want good government, if they want to get what they should, they have to be sure good (or at least better) people are in office. Texas has enough potential democratic voters to flip that state. If they can’t be bothered to turn out, they’ll have to live with the results of their inaction. That’s just a brute fact that we all must face.

  162. 162.

    Chet Murthy

    @Achrachno:

    Texas has enough potential democratic voters to flip that state. If they can’t be bothered to turn out, they’ll have to live with the results of their inaction.

    I think it was Atrios who wrote about his time working in a rather poor Philly nbhd, and how the residents basically couldn’t afford to vote. The forgone earnings involved in getting ID, getting registered, and then voting, would have cost them enough, that it just wasn’t worth the investment. He’s not a fool. He knows that in the big picture, it’s suicidal. But he’s right, that day-to-day, it isn’t a good investment — b/c things won’t change, and you still need to eat.

    There’s been lots of work done on the economic choices poor people make, and why to expect them to make the same choices that even middle-class people make is just unrealistic.

    I wanna be clear here: this only excuses -poor- Dem voters. Not anybody who’s middle-class or better. I’m just betting, based on the maps I’ve seen, that most of the untapped Dem vote is poor people, e.g. in the Rio Grande Valley.

  163. 163.

    Achrachno

    @Redshift: “Yeah, Virginia definitely got there just by our own bootstraps, with people from other states telling us we deserved whatever we got until we elected Democrats and became worthy…”

    Any state has to fix itself. The assistance from elsewhere is mostly just going to be whatever money can be spared from other fights, and will amount to nothing if the local folks don’t organize and kick the creeps out. People who don’t work for their own freedom and prosperity probably won’t get it, however worthy they are — and most people are worthy of both.

  164. 164.

    Aleta

    @Ruckus: When they were selling condos in southern CA, Ivanka went to a sales pitch and basically said (lied), “If you buy this unit, we’ll be neighbors!” A possibility of hanging out at Ivanka’s, a chance to turn into a different person, change one’s life. Which is what a cult offers by proximity to the leader.

  166. 166.

    jl

    @J R in WV: He’s also completely ignorant of the facts. The white supremacists started ‘provoking’ a small group of very peaceful counter protesters the night before during their illegal tiki torch march, if you want to call physical assault ‘provocation’.

    Obama did call Muslim terrorists Muslim terrorists.

    But other than problems like that, what the guy said is just fine.

  168. 168.

    Yarrow

    @Achrachno:

    He didn’t say that. If you’re going to discuss, you have to be fair and accurate. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.

    The original comment was this:

    Fuckem.

    Fuck them, where “them” is everyone in Texas facing a significant flooding disaster. Because, and I quote, “This is who and what they voted for.” So, fuck Texans because as a whole they voted for Republicans.

    When I linked to a county by county map, and pointed out that many counties that are in the projected path of catastrophic flooding actually voted for Hillary, the response was that the Texas Democratic party was moribund.

    Regarding your other point, I linked to an article about a high population county’s significant increase in Democratic votes. This increase in votes was due to hard work by people in that county, organizing and getting out votes. Not one person has responded to the article, including the original person who said “Fuckem” about Texans who are facing a natural disaster. This county is currently in the area projected to have extremely high rainfall totals. But, you know, fuckem.

  169. 169.

    Millard Filmore

    @Chet Murthy:

    I think it was Atrios who wrote about his time working in a rather poor Philly nbhd, and how the residents basically couldn’t afford to vote. The forgone earnings involved in getting ID, getting registered, and then voting, would have cost them enough, that it just wasn’t worth the investment.

    Worker bee: “Hey boss! I need a day off next week to get an ID, and another day or two next month to register to vote.”
    Boss bee: “If you don’t show up for work, you’re fired.”

    So now worker bee has a choice. “Do I want to vote or do I want to keep this job? If I am fired I won’t be able to pay the rent and have to live on the street. Everything I own will ghost away in the night. Maybe my brother will take me in, maybe I have to live in my car. Social services will take my kids away, unless my wife leaves me. That would be the best thing since I would know where they all are and could visit.”

    No small government billionaire will ever have to face the tough choice of being able to vote or losing all their job, connections, wealth, their home(s), their family.

  171. 171.

    Chet Murthy

    @Yarrow: You’re right, that it’s pretty callous. But OTOH, there’s *nothing* that we can do about it as blue-staters. *Nothing*. Also, because of those red states, we’ve all been condemned to a nightmare of the destruction of our nation. So y’know, I’m not saying EFG is completely justified. But just as some understanding should be extended to poor people who have other things to do, than vote, similarly, some understanding might be extended to dutiful citizens who just had THEIR GODDAM COUNTRY STOLEN FROM THEM.

    For myself, I’ll never treat any Trump voter as a decent person, or a fellow citizen, again. If they get hit by a car, they can fucking bleed out. Fuckem.

  172. 172.

    Yarrow

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: That’s absolutely true. And it starts with small victories that turn into larger victories. The big increase in Democratic voters and turnout in Harris county in 2016 is a great start. How that plays out longer term statewide I don’t know. It’s still encouraging to see.

    Meanwhile, a whole bunch of Texans are facing a catastrophic flooding event. One model I saw had 51 inches of rain over a five day period. That’s going to kill people. I personally don’t think “fuckem” is the best response to that sort of situation.

  173. 173.

    Yarrow

    @Chet Murthy:

    similarly, some understanding might be extended to dutiful citizens who just had THEIR GODDAM COUNTRY STOLEN FROM THEM.

    Shockingly, some of those citizens are in Texas. If you look at the map I linked above, you’ll see that many of the counties that are under catastrophic flooding threat went for Hillary. Which means those voters are just as upset as you are about having THEIR GODDAM COUNTRY STOLEN FROM THEM. But, you know, they’re in Texas and Texas went for Trump, so…fuckem.

  174. 174.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Chet Murthy: Short term there’s nothing we can do, long and medium term we can help folk get the required id and transportation to the polls. I hear there’s a young guy that’s going to be working on this, Obuma or something.

  175. 175.

    Chet Murthy

    @Yarrow: Yarrow, like I said: we blue-staters also know that there’s nothing we can do about. Nothing. As someone said, the right metaphor is a high-speed bus, driven by a maniac. Half the passengers are tied-down, and the rest are wandering around, egging on the driver. We’re the ones that are tied-down.

    Look: are Dems not allowed any sense of outrage? Any moments of acting-out their range and frustration? Really? We’re supposed to be perfect adults all the time? Even when we’re tied down on this goddam bus as it careens ever-closer to the cliff-edge?

  176. 176.

    Chet Murthy

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Indeed. Apropos of, last year over half my charitable giving was to PP of {Greater,South} TX. It’ll be the same this year. And I live in SF. B/c grew up in TX, and saw the calamity happening to poor mothers. So I sympathize and want to help. Of course, I won’t set foot in the godforsaken place — I’d have to hire a small army of bodyguards to feel safe — but I can send money.

  177. 177.

    Yarrow

    @Chet Murthy:

    Look: are Dems not allowed any sense of outrage? Any moments of acting-out their range and frustration?

    Who said you were not allowed to feel any sense of outrage? Or moment of acting out your rage and frustration?

    I do think that saying “fuckem” to people who are facing a catastrophic natural disaster is a horrible thing to do.

  178. 178.

    Chet Murthy

    @Yarrow:

    I do think that saying “fuckem” to people who are facing a catastrophic natural disaster is a horrible thing to do.

    I didn’t say it. [I said “fuckem” to every Trumpist everywhere.] I -did- say that a measure of understanding should be extended to people who did. B/c when your country gets stolen, you sometimes say and do irrational things. And like I said: there’s NOTHING we can do about what’s about to happen in Texas. NOTHING.

    Don’t you think that if Dems had any power, they’d do something about it? PBHO sure did. WJC sure did. Jimmy Carter sure did. And on and on.

    ETA: “say irrational things” like “if they were bleeding out I’d let ’em die” about Trumpists. Would I really? idunno. But goddam it felt good to say it. fuckem.

  179. 179.

    Yarrow

    @Chet Murthy: I understand the initial impulse. That’s why my initial responses were measured. I don’t understand the lack of recognition that many of the people who will be in harms way, if current tracks prove out, are Hillary voters. That not all Texans are evil Trump voters. That there are people working in Texas to increase Democratic voters–and seeing results. That despite all that, fuckem.

  180. 180.

    TenguPhule

    @Chet Murthy:

    Thing is, there comes a point where you stop believing in democracy, and start defending your interests. I wonder when that happens.

    That’s considered crazy talk here.

  181. 181.

    jl

    Why is everyone bickering when we can all just blame Baud for blowing his campaign? i don’t get it.
    I’ll give him a piece of my mind next time he’s here.

  182. 182.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    Not one person has responded to the article, including the original person who said “Fuckem” about Texans who are facing a natural disaster.

    In my defense, I figured you made your point better then I could.

  183. 183.

    Chet Murthy

    @Yarrow: And if you’ll look up-thread, I *agreed* with you. Pointed out that Atrios had a nice explanation for why esp. poorer people might not vote, and we shouldn’t hold it against them — voting comes at a cost that a poor person might not think they can afford. But just as I can understand that mindset (I spent 2.5yr working & supporting myself in fast food before going to college, and with no plan to do anything other than fast-food), I can understand and sympathize with the white-hot rage of a thousand suns of a blue-state voter whose country got stolen from them. Because I feel that rage, that hate, that fury. And it’s sometimes hard to choose the targets of that rage with discretion.

    Lemme put it this way: What? Only Dems have agency, and only Rs are allowed to feel irrational rage?

    Instead of “that’s horrible”, how about “that’s over the top and kinda irrational, innit?”

  184. 184.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    I do think that saying “fuckem” to people who are facing a catastrophic natural disaster is a horrible thing to do.

    No argument there. Georgia got fucking hosed already and Texas looks to be next on the “No Fucking Federal Disaster Declaration for you”.

    Being on an island in the middle of the Ocean which faced no less then seven near misses from Hurricanes last year, I do not like our odds if something bad happens to us this season.

    And any Senator that fucks over disaster aid bills needs to choke to death on a bag of salted dicks.

  185. 185.

    Chet Murthy

    @TenguPhule:

    And any Senator that fucks over disaster aid bills needs to choke on a bag of salted dicks.

    The US of A is an insurance company with an army. As it should be.

  186. 186.

    TenguPhule

    @Chet Murthy:

    The US of A is an insurance company with an army. As it should be.

    I’m sorry, is that meant as snark? I’m not drunk enough to tell.

  187. 187.

    Smitty

    @Ruckus: Trumpers have already been to the punch bowl and had their fill of Koolaid. I suggest a mass burial and that we move on to the inevitable problem of POTUS Pence. Best for the resistance to continually decry the mental deterioration of Trump. Trump will continue to step on his own small fingers making room for Pence . Beat Pence up when he sits behind the Resolute desk. That will be easy given his damaged brand.

  188. 188.

    TenguPhule

    @Smitty:

    I suggest a mass burial and that we move on to the inevitable problem of POTUS Pence.

    Trump is going to kill Pence. The only question is whether or not he’s going to stop at destroying just his political life.

    Everyone else is expendable to Trump. Everyone.

  190. 190.

    Amir Khalid

    So James Clapper questions Trump’s fitness for office. In my mind there is no question about that, and there has never been any question: Trump is plainly unfit for any public office.

  193. 193.

    Smitty

    @TenguPhule: Give up power? No. Be forced to cede power. Absolutely. Trump will be indicted and, ultimately convicted. A president under indictment will be powerless so Trump will resign/quit/feign illness. Trump will suddenly have a debilitating heart condition (bone spurs) so he will try to retire to Florida. Pence will be POTUS but so tainted by Trump that the legislative branch will assume control of the government until 2020. RICO will send the Donald to the pokey.

  194. 194.

    Amir Khalid

    @Smitty:
    Trump wasn’t a hand grenade thrown at America. He was more like an act of self-harm by a psychologically troubled person.

  195. 195.

    Smitty

    @Amir Khalid: Trump is the last person on earth who would harm himself. He is all about self promotion, self flattery, self gratification, self enrichment… nothing else. Trump would fillet his grandchildren before he would endanger himself. He is without morals or scruples. A psychological defense of Trump is beside the point. Trump has no business being in polite society much less the White House.

  196. 196.

    Just one more canuck

    @Suzanne: I just got back from Prince Edward Island, home of the Canadian Potato Museum. They have a hall of fame that is literally in a hallway

  197. 197.

    Smitty

    @Amir Khalid: Sorry , upon rereading I see that I missed the point of your post. You feel that the US feels a need to punish itself. Let me think about that. I am pretty sure that most US citizens feel that they are punished enough by ignorance, intolerance, in-fill in the blank.

  198. 198.

    AxelFoley

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The only good thing is he’s taking the entire GOP down with him.

    That party needs to be annihilated. It’s an evil repository of racism, greed, and selfishness.

    You have never seen a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  199. 199.

    Another Scott

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah. I’m not impressed with the leading questions, nor with Clapper’s answers here.

    E.g. he said he never saw any evidence of “collusion” between Trump and the Russians. “It may be out there, but I didn’t see it.” Why not? Was he so busy that no information was given to him about a pretty blatant attempt by Putin to grossly interfere with our national elections? Or is information still (after 9/11) so stove-piped in the IC that the DNI still doesn’t know what’s going on? Or was nobody investigating all the thick smoke? Or did they have a mountain of evidence, but refused to give it to prosecutors because “sources-and-methods” are so important that they’re willing to let the national government be burned down to protect them?

    And he really shouldn’t have let himself be lead around by Lemon. “Are you concerned?” “You say you’re concerned, why?” Etc. He should use his own words.

    So, meh.

    It’s a good thing if others (who aren’t political junkies) are waking up to the damage that Donnie is doing, but it’s really kinda late isn’t it?

    :-/

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  200. 200.

    JGabriel

    Jeffro:

    “So, BJ poster, can you tell us what motivated you to vote for the email-abusing, cackling, overcompensating, she-devil instead of someone who would ‘shake things up’ ?”

    You mean, instead of the female-abusing, lying, decompensating, Nazi-jerk?

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