Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

The revolution will be supervised.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

We still have time to mess this up!

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

I really should read my own blog.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Peak wingnut was a lie.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Arpaio pardoned, Gorka resigns, etc.

Arpaio pardoned, Gorka resigns, etc.

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Trump reaffirmed his commitment to white supremacy by pardoning “Sheriff” Joe Arpaio. Unqualified Nazi shithead Sebastian Gorka resigned. Trump formalized a stupid, bigoted, unnecessary, uncalled-for ban on transgender troops. And a Cat 4 hurricane is bearing down on Texas. I think that’s all.

I’m fresh out of “evens” to can’t. Open thread.

Reader Interactions

145Comments

  2. 2.

    lamh36

    Michelle Obama: “Being president doesn’t change who you are, it reveals who you are.”

  3. 3.

    cain

    The Arpaio thing really cuts. I suspect it was once again something where he thinks he is fucking over Obama. I can’t wait for Obama to come back into the political spotlight because 45 is going to go shit fucking crazy.

  4. 4.

    Trentrunner

    Note that there’s nothing “judicial” about Trump’s pardon, not that there was question about procedure, whatever.

    It was strictly quid-pro-quo for Arpaio’s help in AZ primary, and it was a throwing a bone to a like-minded bigot.

    Along with reversing Obama’s DACA ruling, this is a shitty, shitty night.

  5. 5.

    lamh36

    @jonfavs 42s43 seconds ago
    More
    I don’t ever want to read a story about new staff trying to moderate Donald Trump again. Ever.

  7. 7.

    Jerzy Russian

    I step out for the afternoon (went drinking with some grad students), and things go downhill even further. Has Sheriff Joe accepted the pardon, and hence his guilt?

  9. 9.

    Gvg

    Did he do the actual real paperwork and what did he pardon him for? Or did he just say he pardoned the guy and sign a pretty piece of paper? I have gotten to expect super ignorance from Trump.

  11. 11.

    Tim C.

    You forgot the “no new transgendered service members” thing too. A lot seems to be happening this evening, so I just will say this. You can be a Republican, or you can be a decent human being. No other choices.

  15. 15.

    efgoldman

    @Trentrunner:

    Along with reversing Obama’s DACA ruling, this is a shitty, shitty night.

    Think: Super spiteful, nasty, tantrumy four year old child.
    That’s what 62 million of our fellow brainless Americans voted for. Because they’re every bit as spiteful, hateful, racist, ignorant as he is.

    Fuckem.

  18. 18.

    schrodingers_cat

    None of this surprises me. Makes my resolve stronger. The battle lines have been drawn, the soul of this country is at stake. We have to fight or they win by default.

  21. 21.

    Chitown Kev

    Subpoenas…don’t forget the subpoenas
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mueller-seeks-grand-jury-testimony-pr-execs-who-worked-manafort-n796066

    WASHINGTON — Special Counsel Robert Mueller issued grand jury subpoenas in recent days seeking testimony from public relations executives who worked on an international campaign organized by Paul Manafort, people directly familiar with the matter told NBC News.

    This is the first public indication that Mueller’s investigation is beginning to compel witness testimony before the grand jury — a significant milestone in an inquiry that is examining the conduct of President Donald Trump and his son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, among others.
    It is also further indication that Manafort, Trump’s onetime campaign chairman, could be in serious legal jeopardy.

    According to one executive whose firm received a subpoena, Mueller’s team is closely examining the lobbying campaign, which ran between 2012 and 2014. Some of the firms involved in the campaign received subpoenas for documents weeks ago, the executive said, and now the Mueller team is seeking testimony.

    “We think they are trying to figure out, was this a legitimate project?” the executive said. “From our perspective it was — we did a lot of work. We took it seriously.”

  23. 23.

    japa21

    WTF. Had to take my wife for some OP surgery today on both her feet. What with the hurricane and all, I really didn’t think much else would happen. Just now catching up on everything, and it is taking a while to do so.

    A couple comments. Once again Trump is proving he is who we knew he was.

    The transgender ban is counterproductive. I’ll wait to see what actual implementation takes place, but I have a feeling it will be thrown out in the courts.

    I am pissed about the pardon, but, in a way, not too pissed. I was reading how a lot of Hispanic Republicans were hoping he wouldn’t sign the pardon. These were Republicans primarily in AZ and TX. Considering the recent court rulings in TX, this action by Trump could have a major impact on the GOP there. And if he goes after the DACA kids, he will make it worse.

    The Russia news is more ho-hum to me. Until we start hearing of definitive findings, I am going to work hard to suppress my optimism.

    My wife just told me that Trump knows his time is limited in the WH and is trying to do as much damage as possible Watch Russia try to take even more advantage of this.

  24. 24.

    efgoldman

    @lamh36:

    Trump pardons Arpaio & we get hot takes about why it’s smart politics

    It really hasn’t sunk in yet, and may not until Harvey’s destruction is apparent.

  30. 30.

    RPh

    And the Norks launched a couple missiles ….

    I’m not ancient, but I’m old … I don’t remember a tsunami of shit like the last 7 months

  31. 31.

    Tom Q

    From Election Night through — I don’t know, March? — I was in abject fear of what was to come from this maladministration. But then the combination of TrumpCo’s incompetence and the clear threat they saw from Comey/Mueller made me think maybe we’d get through all this without catastrophic damage. But the last few weeks — first Charlottesville, now a night like this — make me wonder if I eased up on the doom-pedal a bit too soon. These are truly grim times, even if we survive them.

  33. 33.

    Chitown Kev

    @lamh36:

    lol. Maggie will not allow her palace intrigue stories to be messed with…I would be OK with that if the investigative stories were better woven into that fabric but it seems that, in large part, The Old Grey lady has ceded much of that to WaPo

  35. 35.

    geg6

    @lamh36:

    I fucking hate that bitch and want to watch her suffer endless pain of he rest of her life.

    This is what they’ve turned me into.

  37. 37.

    JMG

    Trump is one of the worst humans ever. So are the 62 million who voted for him. If you do business with a Trump supporter, cancel it (I did so with an excellent and amiable electrician). Don’t let your children associate with their children. Go to the local right wing talk radio station and when the hosts come out to their cars, throw dog shit at them. It’s pretty clear now. Trump supporters are enemies of the human race.

  40. 40.

    efgoldman

    @japa21:

    Trump knows his time is limited in the WH

    Honestly? I don’t think he “knows” any such thing. That would imply a medium to long term outlook, and that actions have consequences. We’vs seen no evidence that any such thing ever crosses his mind.

  41. 41.

    danielx

    “So was Sheriff Joe was convicted for doing his job?” Trump asked supporters. “I’ll make a prediction. I think he’s going to be just fine, OK.”

    We don’t need no steenkin judges…Lord Shortfingers couldn’t resist, because if there are any people in the judicial system he can’t stand they are judges. Because they are the only officers of the law who have ever successfully told him what to do and made it stick.

    Our poor country. God, what a douche rocket.

  43. 43.

    Betty Cracker

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m pretty much on the “fuck anyone who voluntarily associates with this regime” train. Voters. Flunkies. People who are arrogant/deluded enough to think they can mitigate the damage. At this point, fuck them all. If you serve Trump, you’re Trump’s tool.

  46. 46.

    lamh36

    Check out this profile in courage guys…smh

    @JeffFlake
    Follow
    More
    Regarding the Arpaio pardon, I would have preferred that the President honor the judicial process and let it take its course.

  47. 47.

    Adam L Silverman

    The real question is now that Gorka’s been unable to get and wield power in the UK through his attempt to become a British military intel officer; and Hungary by forming an extreme right, neo-nationalist party, but failing to get elected; and having a presidential appointment job with no security clearance in the US, which country does he emigrate to next? Israel? Bibi’s been cozying up the neo-nationalists and neo-fascists in Europe. Saudi? The 31 year old Crown Prince who is running the country is basically Jared in a thobe with a desire to kill Shi’a. Philippines? Duterte seems like the real deal hardliner that Trump is pretending to be?

  49. 49.

    japa21

    @efgoldman: Just my wife’s thinking. I was going to say nobody can read his mind, but then I realized that is because he has no real mind to read.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @japa21: I haven’t seen the memo yet, but my take so far is that Mattis is going to slow walk things on the DOD side, especially because each of his Service chiefs (Chief of Staff of the Army, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, Chief of Naval Operations, and Commandant of the Marine Corps) and the Commandant of the Coast Guard, who is under DHS, have all indicated they’re not comfortable with this. With the Coast Guard Commandant stating explicitly that he will not comply with this. And because the Coast Guard, despite being a uniformed, military service, isn’t part of DOD, he should be able to do so for the time being.

    What will actually happen we’ll have to wait and see, but this is the last thing the military wants to deal with right now. It is going to cost time and money that is scarce.

  53. 53.

    Retr2327

    @Trentrunner: I’m sure Trump wanted to pardon Arpaio anyway, but step back and look at the other news tonight: what better way to send a message to Flynn and Manafort “hang in there, keep your mouths shut, and I’ll take care of you”?

  54. 54.

    lamh36

    @Jerzy Russian:

    “@RealSheriffJoe
    Follow
    More
    Thank you @realdonaldtrump for seeing my conviction for what it is: a political witch hunt by holdovers in the Obama justice department!”

    Fuq’n racist, P.O.S. I’ve never hoped for a painful violent end to someone as much as I have since Chump was elected.

  57. 57.

    lamh36

    what da fuq ever…

    One less Nazi in a White House full of them, including the head bigot in charge

    @kerpen
    Follow
    More
    Sr WH official: Gorka did not resign. He was fired.

  58. 58.

    clay

    @lamh36:

    a political witch hunt by holdovers in the Obama justice department!

    Judges aren’t ‘holdovers’ you sadistic fascist.

  61. 61.

    MisterForkbeard

    @lamh36: “I have no problem with pardoning an unrepentant racist that broke the law repeatedly, but I am highly concerned that Trump didn’t fill out the forms properly.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    @clay: Homeland Security. The Commandant of the Coast Guard is treated as a Service Chief and has a seat in the Tank at DOD. As does the head of the Guard Bureau. Moving them under DHS was sort of logical and sort of weird. But the Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security have made it work. Most people don’t realize that their are Coast Guard floats forward all over the world working with our allies and partners. Often for training and education purposes.

  64. 64.

    lamh36

    @lamh36: I tweeted to Flake bout that fake azz statement.

    What a cowardly way to try to try to avoid stating the truth…racist birther in chief pardoned awfully convicted Birther former Sheriff

  65. 65.

    mai naem mobile

    I know 5 DACA recipients. Hardworking people. No criminal history. Not even a traffic ticket. All. Work overtime or work and go to school. Fuck Dolt. Fuck Arpaio. Three of them don’t even know what they would do in Mexico if they were sent back. They don’t even speak Mexican Spanish. They speak Spanglish. Dolt45 is a nasty piece of work and his supporters are a bunch of racist losers.

  67. 67.

    Anne Laurie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The real question is now that he’s been unable to get and wield power in the UK through his attempt to become a British military intel officer; and Hungary by forming an extreme right, neo-nationalist party, but failing to get elected; and having a presidential appointment job with no security clearance in the US, which country does he emigrate to next? Israel? Bibi’s been cozying up the neo-nationalists and neo-fascists in Europe. Saudi? The 31 year old Crown Prince who is running the country is basically Jared in a thobe with a desire to kill Shi’a. Philippines? Duterte seems like the real deal hardliner that Trump is pretending to be?

    And though you didn’t include the name “Gorka” in that most comprehensive and restrained catalog, I’mma take a wild guess…

  68. 68.

    schrodingers_cat

    My friends are worried about their son who was born here, he is 12. Two years ago when T started his campaign, and we were discussing his announcement, he asked us, whether he was an anchor baby. He is a great kid, good at sports, plays the cello, sings, is reasonably good at school and now he worries whether others see him as an outsider, as someone sinister.

    ETA: Thank You T voters and JS voters, great job guys!

  70. 70.

    Calouste

    @JPL: Not going to happen. The shitgibbon is just getting rid of the high-profile middle men between himself and the Nazis. He doesn’t need them anymore. Miller actually does work, speech writing and shit, and doesn’t dress up like a Nazi or runs a racist website (he still is a Nazi). Gorka was just there as decoration.

  71. 71.

    lamh36

    @DavidNir 29m29 minutes ago
    More
    David Nir Retweeted Kaili Joy Gray
    It is now up to state prosecutors in Arizona to bring Arpaio to justice—Trump can’t pardon state crimes

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: I haven’t seen the language either, nor the pardon (lots of reporting about it being 2 paragraphs but I guess they think it’s too complicated for them to show us the actual text and let us read it for ourselves. Grr…).

    But a blurb I did see said that the personnel ban instructions were explicitly directed toward the “DOD and DHS” so they’re explicitly trying to cover that base.

    The Coast Guard head needs to be willing to be fired, because Donnie’s minions are going to expect him to comply.

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (“Who thinks it’s kinda sad that the head of the Coast Guard is stronger than the heads of the Pentagon services…”)

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anne Laurie: Sorry, yes, Gorka. He’ll be writing for Breitbart and back on Fox News all the time. Whether the Institute for World Politics will take him back is another question.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    This is funny!

  80. 80.

    Matt McIrvin

    but I have a feeling it will be thrown out in the courts.

    So? It’s not as if courts mean anything any more.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: Here’s the Arpaio pardon announcement. I’m just getting to the memo on transgender uniformed personnel.

    THE WHITE HOUSE
    Office of the Press Secretary
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    August 25, 2017

    President Trump Pardons Sheriff Joe Arpaio

    Today, President Donald J. Trump granted a Presidential pardon to Joe Arpaio, former Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona. Arpaio’s life and career, which began at the age of 18 when he enlisted in the military after the outbreak of the Korean War, exemplify selfless public service. After serving in the Army, Arpaio became a police officer in Washington, D.C. and Las Vegas, NV and later served as a Special Agent for the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), formerly the Bureau of Narcotics. After 25 years of admirable service, Arpaio went on to lead the DEA’s branch in Arizona.

    In 1992, the problems facing his community pulled Arpaio out of retirement to return to law enforcement. He ran and won a campaign to become Sheriff of Maricopa County. Throughout his time as Sheriff, Arpaio continued his life’s work of protecting the public from the scourges of crime and illegal immigration. Sheriff Joe Arpaio is now eighty-five years old, and after more than fifty years of admirable service to our Nation, he is worthy candidate for a Presidential pardon.

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: Okay, I’ve read it. Here’s what it does: basically ends the status quo at the beginning of 2018, with the exception of clearly stating that any service member who has begun reassignment treatments shall still have them covered. After the beginning of 2018 it extends indefinitely the previously set (by President Obama) deadline of 1 JAN 2018 to conclude a policy study and review and develop a way forward to be implemented immediately to ascend and integrate transgender uniformed service members.

    It basically puts the onus on Mattis, and to a lesser extend whoever takes over at DHS, to articulate to the President why transgender individuals should be ascended, integrated, or if already serving able to serve openly and integrated, with the associated costs as not impeding good order and discipline and operations. Whether Mattis will do this I do not know. My impression, as I indicated, is that the Service Chiefs are not interested in moving backwards on this. I would not be surprised that should 1 JAN 2018 roll around, or shortly thereafter given the bulk of everyone will be on permissive/liberal holiday leave, that the policy study and review that is underway will be finalized and sent across to the President. I have no idea what that study and review was going to conclude.

  86. 86.

    Miss Bianca

    So, what’s the over/under on Trump’s nominating Arpaio for the new head of DHS?

    Come on, someone try to tell me, “Nah, even *he* would’t be *that* crazy!”

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman: The military equivalent of appointing a blue ribbon commission to study the issue and hope it just goes away by the time the report comes out advocating the status quo?

  89. 89.

    NoraLenderbee

    As much as the pardon sucks and as disgusting as it is, it doesn’t really surprise me. It’s also not going to dramatically affect a lot of people’s lives. Unlike the other shit asswipe-in-chief is doing.

  90. 90.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: The guidance memo directs Mattis to provide the strategy back to the President by March 2018. It also indicates that no action can be taken against any currently serving transgender military personnel until Mattis does so. You’re the lawyer, but my read on it as someone who has taught senior uniformed and civilian personnel how to write policy proposals, policy memos, and develop strategies and policies, is that Mattis has not just been given the discretion and lead on this, but that there is a lot of space for the President to claim to the (white, conservative) Evangelicals in his base that he’s fulfilled a promise to them while Mattis does absolutely nothing to change the status quo as of this morning.

  94. 94.

    randy khan

    @Miss Bianca:

    So, what’s the over/under on Trump’s nominating Arpaio for the new head of DHS?

    The news came across my phone while I was at dinner with my wife and some friends, and my comment was that it cleared Arpaio to be nominated for that job. (Although, honestly, I think he would have real trouble getting 50 Republican votes in the Senate.)

  96. 96.

    randy khan

    By the way, this Administration can’t even get its right wing talking points right. CNN says that the White House spokesperson (unnamed) said one of the factors to be considered in evaluating whether to keep transgender individuals was “unitary cohesion.”

  97. 97.

    Adam L Silverman

    @randy khan: He won’t clear the Senate. Regardless of what the President and Arpaio may think, accepting the pardon means admitting guilt of committing a Federal crime. Not even this GOP majority Senate is going to confirm someone like that.

  99. 99.

    Another Scott

    @chris: Thanks, I appreciate it.

    But a fuzzy bitmap on Twitter isn’t doing anyone any favors. :-/ “Social Media” is going to be the death of actual understanding… [/onion on belt]

    Here’s an actually readable version.

    It’s horrible, of course, but I assume most of the preamble stuff is “dicta” which actually doesn’t mean anything legally…

    I’m sure the ACLU and many other groups can’t wait to rip it apart in court filings.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100.

    Miss Bianca

    @randy khan: no, but if he did it, how many Republican Senators do you think would actually oppose him?

    ETA: Adam seems to think it’s a bridge too far even for these craven creatures. I have great respect for his judgement, so all I’ll say is…I’m not so sure, myself.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks.

    But that’s just a press release. His white house puts those things out like candy on Halloween. Even when the actual work discussed hasn’t been completed (sometimes even started).

    What exactly has he been pardoned of? Let’s see the actual pardon.

    Of course, Donnie can pardon him. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if his minions do it wrong…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  104. 104.

    Lizzy L

    @Adam L Silverman: That would be a good outcome, but the policy is just damned awful even if the memo is written to allow Mattis to do nothing. I dropped by Lawfare to see if they have anything up about the transgender policy, but they don’t, not yet. OTOH, Bob Bauer thinks that an Arpaio pardon could damage Trump in the event of an impeachment inquiry.

    If, however, impeachment pressure increases, or a formal impeachment inquiry is launched on the basis of Russian “collusion,” obstruction, or on other grounds, an Arpaio pardon in the background will be highly damaging to the President’s position. It will immeasurably strengthen the hand of those arguing that Donald Trump does not have the requisite respect for the rule of law, or an understanding of the meaning of his constitutional oath, to be entrusted with the presidency.

  105. 105.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks.

    I would expect Mattis and all the rest to do what is necessary to fit into the various exclusions and so forth so that this ban has as little impact as possible. Why? Because the Pentagon is has been under pressure for 10+ years (I know most people don’t believe this but it’s true (as I’m sure you could testify)) and anything that makes enlisting or re-upping less appealing is a threat to the mission. Kicking out highly trained and experienced people is expensive, especially when there’s no even half-way sensible reason for it.

    They’re such petty, stupid, monstrous people – Donnie’s minions. We have to fight them every single day.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: That’s all there is. This didn’t go through DOJ’s pardon office. So the only paper trail there likely is is a one sentence memo from the President stating that Arpaio is pardoned.

  109. 109.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Lizzy L: He is not wrong, but his, and several other people’s informed takes, is predicated on impeachment happening.

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not shooting the messenger. :-) Just trying to push back (along with everyone else) about how abnormal this is in every respect.

    What a real presidential pardon looks like:

    By the President of the United States of America

    A Proclamation

    Richard Nixon became the thirty-seventh President of the United States on January 20, 1969 and was reelected in 1972 for a second term by the electors of forty-nine of the fifty states. His term in office continued until his resignation on August 9, 1974.

    Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives, its Committee on the Judiciary conducted an inquiry and investigation on the impeachment of the President extending over more than eight months. The hearings of the Committee and its deliberations, which received wide national publicity over television, radio, and in printed media, resulted in votes adverse to Richard Nixon on recommended Articles of Impeachment.

    As a result of certain acts or omissions occurring before his resignation from the Office of President, Richard Nixon has become liable to possible indictment and trial for offenses against the United States. Whether or not he shall be so prosecuted depends on findings of the appropriate grand jury and on the discretion of the authorized prosecutor. Should an indictment ensue, the accused shall then be entitled to a fair trial by an impartial jury, as guaranteed to every individual by the Constitution.

    It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

    Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

    In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and seventy-four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and ninety-ninth.

    GERALD R. FORD

    It’ll be interesting to see Trump’s language for Arpaio… Grr…

    As I said, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they mess it up.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  113. 113.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: I know what a properly done, through proper channels, pardon looks like. Since this didn’t go through DOJ, my guess is that someone from the White House Counsel’s Office is working to actually generate a proper announcement.

  114. 114.

    Another Scott

    @Omnes Omnibus: I actually agree with her about Donnie’s Generals more often than not. ;-) . But they aren’t trying to destroy the Defense Department the way Tillerson and Perry and Price and Carson and DeVos and all the rest are their respective Departments.

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  120. 120.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Another Scott: I just find the conflation of generals to be annoying. Kelly seems to be on board with some of Trump’s anti-immigrant views. Mattis and McMaster don’t work in that area and it is unfair to lump them in with him. The comments that Mattis made earlier today indicate that he is not on board with the hate agenda and is trying to protect an institution to which he has given his life. Personally, I hope that my long ago acquaintance – and superior officer- McMaster is doing something similar.

  124. 124.

    Felonius Monk

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m pretty sure that’s not actually Gorka’s statement.

    Most likely it is not. He will need at least a week to find a suitable statement to plagiarize.

  125. 125.

    Another Scott

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough.

    I, personally, think they’re suspect simply by virtue of taking political appointments with him. I understand the rationale about protecting the Pentagon and the USA, but it still is disconcerting. And I didn’t like Mattis getting a pass for confirmation (Gillibrand was right to vote no, IMHO). And McMaster serving as NSA has some of the same issues that Gillibrand talked about (and Nunn was right about, IMHO).

    Civilian control of the military is more problematic than it should be under Trump…

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  127. 127.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Adam L Silverman: I hope you’re right about the brass slow-walking into effective oblivion. We all knew it was coming, but it’s a gut punch all the same to be reminded yet again that I’m not even a second class citizen and the Republicans are doing their best to legislatively harass out of public life.

    Mostly I’m just angry. Any of the Nazi cosplayers in town — who are already harassing people — may be in for big surprise if they mess with any of my sisters or brothers, especially the POC trans people who are most likely to end up in the streets. Feeling like you’ve got nothing to lose changes things.

  129. 129.

    Smitty

    Anyone still awake? Given that Trump is going to jail, just wondering what jail that would be. RICO convictions from NY AG Schneiderman seem to me to be the most likely route for Trump to go “up the river” as we say in NY. Does he go to prison in NY…possibly w/ Chapo Guzman as a cellmate? Does he go to Levenworth as a Federal convictee? Are the problems related to protecting an ex-president difficult to the point that Trump will be serve his sentence in Guantanimo (irony alert)?

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Smitty: Anything he would be convicted of in NY state would, should he be sentenced to prison, be served in a NY state prison.

  134. 134.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Smitty: Given his age, most likely one of the Club Feds. I highly doubt they’d put him in a Supermax. But I also think that regardless of what Mueller’s investigation may find, that the best potential to prosecute him would be in NY state by AG Schneiderman. I think the argument that a number of folks have made tonight, that the President’s pardon of Arpaio is a signaling to both those in potential jeopardy from Mueller’s investigation, as well as his base to normalize the idea, that pardons will be made when the President feels necessary regardless of the processes or systems in place at DOJ. As O2 indicated above: none of this is normal, none of this is right. And the President is escalating the unconstitutionality of his actions in an attempt to normalize it with his base and with the average American who is just trying to get through their day and survive.

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Adam L Silverman: So would he vote to convict Trump in an impeachment trial? Since he takes care to note that Trump has the legal authority to do this, probably not. In which case this doesn’t mean much.

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @NoraLenderbee: Well, except in that it’s a signal to every other petty tyrant and wannabe torturer in America that the President has their backs, and his pardon will at the very least protect them from federal law.

  140. 140.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Adam L Silverman: Unfortunately there’s a lot of them out on the town, just itching to start something. Enough the my Facebook feedback is full of warnings about dangerous white male sightings. Already at least one reported hate attack.

    I suspect it may be whack-a-mole with the white supremacists demonstrations/press conferences/flash mobs tomorrow. Popular consensus here is that the last minute switch to Alamo Square is an attempt to force both police and counter-demonstrators to split their forces, since Alamo Square and Crissy Fields are several miles away from each other. Alamo Square is also smack in the middle of a residential area — the “Painted Ladies” being an iconic SF sight — so there’s a real risk of collateral damage if things turn violent.

    OTOH, the white supremacists don’t have a permit for Alamo Square (nor any time to get one) and so the city has vowed to shut them down there. So I may also end up being pure theater, where they can whine about how their rights to free speech were abridged by the evil counter-demonstrators and the city. But yeah, a lot of people are on edge tonight.

    On the positive side, I went to the store tonight, and in the park next door was doing an outdoor showing of “Casablanca.” I arrived just in time for the La Marseillaise scene. With actual Nazis roaming my town, it brought me to tears.

  144. 144.

    Tehanu

    @danielx:

    Hmmm, I wonder. Dump’s older sister, who’s 80, is an (inactive) Senior Circuit Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, appointed by Reagan — apparently quite well-respected although a (gag) Republican. You don’t hear much about her as she keeps a low profile. So I just wonder if there’s an aspect of showing her up — or even giving her the finger — in how Dump relates, if that is the right word, to the judiciary.

  145. 145.

    Another Scott

    @Smitty: Dead thread, but…

    Several active or inactive lawyers post comments here occasionally. Some in tax law, some in criminal defense, some in family law, some in other areas. We have a former (administrative law) judge here as well. Those are “the lawyers”.

    There are several former Army, Navy, and other ex-military folks here. Sometimes they are also people in the lawyer group above. Adam worked for various DoD people in Iraq as a civilian advising various colonels and generals, and in other areas for the Pentagon. He’s still active in the field.

    Take a look at “the Balloon-Juice Lexicon” under the “Quick Links” dropdown at the top of the page (on the Desktop version of the web site – I think it’s farther down on the Mobile version) to get a handle on some of the jargon and inside jokes (though it hasn’t been updated in a while).

    I quick way to get a bit of background on some of the “regulars” here is to do a Google search as follows. Search for ‘site:balloon-juice.com “Another Scott”‘ (without the outside single-quotes) to see comments by me or that mention me. Similarly for other terms or posters.

    The UrbanDictionary site can sometimes be useful too to try to figure out what people are saying. ;-)

    HTH a little, welcome aboard.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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