This event is unprecedented & all impacts are unknown & beyond anything experienced. Follow orders from officials to ensure safety. #Harvey pic.twitter.com/IjpWLey1h8
— NWS (@NWS) August 27, 2017
.
Apart from the ongoing Harvey disaster, what’s on the agenda for the start of the new week?
***********
If you're looking for charities to support helping those affected by #HurricaneHarvey, @CharityNav has a list! https://t.co/EhChIn0G1S pic.twitter.com/8Ga5YilHIJ
— Charity Navigator (@CharityNav) August 27, 2017
GoFundMe has aggregated its funding relief efforts here: https://t.co/o3tNuQb3xL
— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) August 27, 2017
Good list of reputable organizations serving Harvey victims here: https://t.co/DjJ6XmvFmk
— Laura Seay (@texasinafrica) August 27, 2017
As we keep everyone affected by Hurricane Harvey in our thoughts, here’s how you can help:https://t.co/RVReG1lRAd
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) August 27, 2017
Thank you to all the first responders and people helping each other out. That's what we do as Americans. Here's one way you can help now. https://t.co/iGfE8rAoAu
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) August 27, 2017
Ryan
Thanks President Obama! Meanwhile…
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/901942677461229569
raven
I’m wary of the Red Cross.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I’m printing multiple copies of Trump’s county by county election win total to distribute, along with buying several hundred MAGA hats for his visit tomorrow.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
rikyrah
@raven:
Me too. Would not give them a dime.??
Jeffro
@rikyrah: why?
Baud
Add The Observer to your Do Not Trust list.
https://lawnewz.com/uncategorized/kushners-the-observer-publishes-very-misleading-story-making-clintondnc-look-bad/
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: For good reasons.
raven
@Jeffro: Uh, because of their “past history”.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Whats a reporter to do, call the legal department about legal stuff; or call the IT department about the ins and outs of email?
raven
Comments on the Red Cross from Charity Navigator.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: For some reason, they show up on my Google feed. They are always pushing the rigged primary spin, but this is the first time that I’ve seen that they’ve lied outright.
Eural Joiner
Just to show how crazy weird the weather situation is – spoke to my mom yesterday who lives in the black zone on the map, about an hour SW of Houston and an hour from Victoria. Where she is, a little town called El Campo, it was getting sporadic light to heavy showers followed by…sunshine. No real flooding so far.
bystander
Red Cross, Salvation Army and Susan Komen are all on my $hitli$t. BTW, helping a bunch of trumpletons just is not a priority for me. Wish I felt it, but I don’t.
Jeffro
@raven: @raven:
Ok, thank you. I’m still going to donate to them and to several other great organizations that were listed earlier.
MomSense
Those bands look awfully dark over NOLA, too. Did they ever get the pumps working after the recent flooding?
MomSense
@bystander:
I personally don’t care about that at all right now. People need help.
Houston did vote for HRC.
Baud
@bystander: Houston votes D, if you can and want to find a charity focused on the city.
satby
@Jeffro: oh please don’t. I was one of the RC volunteers at the Katrina disaster and subsequently worked on that account in IT and nobody wastes money like they do. Charity Navigator has several charities listed that are responding to this disaster and are four star (more fiscally responsible). aRC always rakes in the cash during disasters, and their volunteers are some of the best people on earth, but your money will be better used elsewhere.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I do hope that in the course of votes for aid that several well-spoken representatives and senators take an opportunity to lash Texas’ conservative contingent on shared duties.
satby
Here’s the link for more effective charities!
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Absolutely. No question.
Baud
@Eural Joiner: Yeah, completely depends on the watershed.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@satby:
ARC is still on that list so they must be worth something
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: They are still working on them. Landrieu says they are at 92% capacity now and should be able to deal with it,
They should be OK.
debbie
@Ryan:
What’s he thanking them for? Idiot. You’d think, with his new-found religiosity, he’d say, “Prayers!”
satby
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: ARC is a huge charity… Charity Navigator will list any charity including scams because they rate the charities effectiveness. A four star charity uses their money more effectively and is more transparent about their finances.
I was a disaster response person for the Red Cross during a terrible disaster, Katrina, and though I honor my fellow volunteers and still have friends at ARC, I watched how they pissed money away and give my money to people who will use it better.
And I went to Haiti after the earthquake with a different group.
Kay
Those poor people. The rain just keeps coming. I’d like to find a specific school or rec center that needs $ help opening back up whenever the flooding subsides. I’ll look on Gofund me.
Trump better put his spite wall on a back burner. I cannot imagine what this is gonna cost. They will need a lot of federal help.
Barbara
@raven: I recently had a discussion with a former Red Cross PR person and they said that internally many people disagreed with the approach of using every disaster as a fund raising opportunity. I am sure that most people agree that the Red Cross needs to have funding for overhead and for preparation in case of disaster, but not all disasters really require the resources of the Red Cross, and when they go out of their way to make it seem as if donating to the Red Cross will alleviate immediate crisis needs for events such as 9/11, they are misleading donors. However, I noted that in this case they are appealing for both funds and volunteers, and Harvey is the kind of event that Red Cross operations were designed to alleviate.
Patricia Kayden
@bystander: Houston is a pretty blue city so you’ll be helping many on our side if that makes it easier for you.
debbie
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
When I write my check (which I still do), I’m putting in the memo section: For Texas, but not for Ted Cruz.
Barbara
@OzarkHillbilly: Most recent tracking forecasts don’t have NOLA in the direct, sustained path of Harvey. Hopefully it will get a respite from flooding.
satby
@Barbara: let me put it this way, Red Cross is better than no response team, but there are far more effective ones.
And though there’s the odious religious aspect of Salvation Army, they are out in every disaster feeding people, supplying replacement clothing and other household needs, and taking care of people without question. Hell, sometimes they fed the ARC people too.
Kay
This coincides with the period where Trump was making appearances on Morning Joe (and elsewhere) touting Putin’s leadership. The WaPo has done such good work on Trump. It’s a cliche but they just follow the money. They don’t look into his soul or pretend he has some guiding ideology or beliefs – they just look for the money.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Baud: And the rate of precipitation. And the wind direction. Which depends on the location relative to the eye.
At a quick look, El Campo isn’t getting the rain bands directly off the Gulf. It’s inland enough and west enough that the bands will have spent part of their fury before reaching it. Also, that black area is 15″+ through Thursday. (They ran out of colors.) Houston has already gotten well over that, and they have no downstream drainage available to carry it away. As of twelve hours ago, El Campo had a little over 9. On track to top 15″, but a reasonably-managed inland watershed shouldn’t be too overtaxed. Of course, this IS Texas….
Jeffro
@Barbara: Thank you.
rikyrah
@Jeffro:
Too many instances of them being questionable, especially with poorer communities of color.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Geaux pumps!
satby
Odd coincidence, the only time I was ever in Houston was with the Red Cross, staying at the downtown Hyatt with the other volunteers with our Avis cars safely parked in the garage. Houston was evacuated because of Rita, so it was just ARC, FEMA, and the national guard as well as locals who were essential personnel or refused to evacuate. When Rita wasn’t a big deal we redeployed to Baton Rouge.
And that’s how some of your money is spent during disasters. Because that may have been discounted, but it sure wasn’t comped to ARC.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I think that Texas has 32 electoral votes, which means that it has 30 or 32 Congressional districts.
When Sandy came, 19 of the NO votes in the House, plus BOTH of their Senators.
Yes, they should get the money, but these muthaphuckas should be forced to grovel for it. Read back to them or force them to read whatever they said about Sandy Aid.
Kay
Well, Tuesday night is our party for Connie Pillich. Ohio governor. It’s at the home of a fancy local Republican who hates Trump so I’m curious if other local Republicans will be there.
I got a call from her campaign reminding me of the date – obviously I don’t need reminding since I helped set it up but I was impressed that they were calling the list. Good job! I don’t care which D wins the primary but I want to encourage GOP splitters and this guy wants Pillich.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
FEMA head asks all citizens to get involved. That there is some of that socialism! Bootstraps! MAGA!
Thotsnprars will fix it.
rikyrah
@Kay:
The guy who wrote the story about fundraisers at Mara Lago must be having a good time. Doing his job, and phucking with Dolt45.???
Baud
@Kay: So those Republicans see the governor’s race as a proxy for Trump?
Kay
@rikyrah:
Anything that humiliates Ted Cruz is fine with me but boy, this is gonna cost. They better find some money.
OzarkHillbilly
@Barbara: Yep. I saw one map that had them at 12.5″ of rain tho it did not say over what time period or whether that was what they had already received or were expected to get. My son just moved to NOLA so I keep my eye on them. I can be a worried parent as long as I am not the “obsessively calling 3 times a day to see if they are still OK” parent.
Baud
@Kay: And raise the debt ceiling, or else it’s all for naught.
rikyrah
@Kay:
They -FEMA- are out of money, so, a vote must be taken to give them the money for Harvey.
Like I said..I want them to get the money.. I just want it to be a humiliating experience for them.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Fuck you, Pete Sessions.
I wish he’d been in Houston in a car on a freeway.
Kay
@Baud:
The one does. I’m hoping there are more. Higher income Republicans here are moderates. They don’t like chaos. He’s never held an event for a Democrat before. He went to the Dem county meeting to invite people (I was told, I wasn’t there) which I sort of admire – going to them. Pillich is a veteran (Air Force) which he thinks is this huge plus but I think that’s Republican bias- he thinks Republicans are better than they are. Their love for veterans is over-rated. I don’t think it will make a bit of difference.
Baud
@Kay: Fingers crossed. I know many expected more Republicans last year to be more horrified by Trump than they actually were.
kd bart
Why didn’t Hillary note that she won Harris County, Texas by 13 points? Very un-presidential of her.
ThresherK
@Baud: Oh, my Wilmerites love quoting crap from The NY Observer; it’s been on my “anti pole-star” list for at least a year and a half.
Kay
@Baud:
Did you see the NYTimes was running interference for Trump again?
The President was very “engaged” on the storm. If you ignore his forays into pitching his friends book and promoting his stupid fucking wall.
That’s how they get access for those fascinating forays into Bannon’s thought process I guess. “What makes Trump tick?” That’s the NYTimes beat. They leave all the the real reporting to the Washington Post. They’re busy making friends.
machine
Choosing whether to aid people in dire need based on their political persuasion is a particularly craven act.
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: By the way, saw this yesterday and thought of you: Top diver’s death casts long shadow over deep beauty of the Blue Hole . It’s a good read if you haven’t seen it. Does mention that the main cause of death at these extremes is hubris.
Kay
@machine:
I agree but I think people are sick of taking the high road with Republicans. They DID make a big show out of opposing Sandy aid. They want accountability. Some recognition that these events occurred. If Cruz gets his money without some mention of what a jerk he was then there’s no accountability for his actions.
They’ll get it. Every Democrat will vote for it.
satby
@Jeffro: the ProPublica-NPR report on Red Cross: Gail McGovern and her team are still in charge if “the brand to die for”.
machine
@Kay: So the only alternative is adopting the awful tactics of those cowards? When one has sunk to revanchist opportunism then they’ve become what they beheld.
Kay
I saw lats night how some people are saying they should have evacuated but I’m genuinely baffled on that- where would they go? They can’t just say “get out!” and send millions of people off to who knows where. Plenty of people would have nowhere to go and no money to get very far and even if they got “there” where would they stay?
ThresherK
@Kay: I’m with you. Not waiting for Lester Holt or Chuck Todd to notice anything any longer.
mai naem mobile
Why is he even coming on Tuesday? Fucking Abbot needs to tell him to stay the fuck away. He is not going to listen to the Dem Mayor of Houston. Airports are closed. They’re going to land in Austin? I realize he needs to go there at some point but they need to first get prepared for Wed/Thurs first before they waste time and scarce resources making His Assholeness comfortable.
machine
@Kay: Had we evacuated it would have clogged the very freeways that are flooded now. We don’t have a good track record here with orderly evacuations, even with the lane contraflow.
Central Planning
@Kay: There’s no way the liberals/Dems can win. If they vote against aid, that will piss off their base and Texans will still hate them. If they vote for it, the base will be happy but the Texans will still hate them.
Regardless of what choice is made, the conservatives/republicans will vote against any aid to the west coast/east coast the next time it is needed. They have no shame so it won’t phase them at all.
Kay
@mai naem mobile:
And miss a chance to make it all about him? Forget that. He’ll have gone 2 full days with the news not focused on Donald Trump by then. That cannot stand.
Lapassionara
@Kay: Seriously bad article. The word “engaged” does not belong in any description of Trump’s “activities” yesterday. BTW, does anyone know where he was over the weekend? Did he stay in the WH for once?
Baud
@Kay: I think I saw the headline on my feed. The bad thing about the digital age is that I can’t just throw my iPad into the garbage.
satby
@Kay: and watch him end up going to some collar suburb where he prevailed in the vote, not Houston proper where he didn’t. Can’t risk unhappy people booing his fragile ego.
Baud
@Kay: It’s the right and Democratic thing to do, but I really can’t begrudge individual Dems if they want to throw “Stronger Apart” in red state voters faces.
Kay
@Central Planning:
Well, they won’t win anything but they’ll all vote for it anyway. They should too. It’s the whole point of a federal government.
Sherrod Brown does plenty for this county and they they don’t vote for him. He should.
Immanentize
My in-laws are in Richmond Tx. The neighboring town, Rosenberg, has mandatory evacuations in place. A huge sinkhole opened up taking a good part of highway 6 with it. I just drove that stretch 3 weeks ago (buying some beer at Specs).
The problem in their area and all of the Sugarland area is that the Brazos cuts straight through it. And the Brazos has no where to go right now so all the creek and sloughs are backing up. It is one big flood plain. But that is why they grew rice and sugar there originally.
The plan is for my in-laws to high tail it to Brenham today — where both my MiL and FiL grew up. The cousins will take them in.
Kay
@satby:
I don’t think he’ll go. I think he’s finicky and terrified of dirt and disorder, on a personal level. I think he looks at a flood and says “icky mess!”
satby
@Kay: they evacuated the city before Rita and sent people to shelters in churches and schools way inland. There was a window of just about two days where people in the worst affected areas could have moved.
Central Planning
@Kay: I agree, people/businesses/regions affected by the hurricane should get aid and I expect all my NY Reps and Senators to vote for aid.
However, part of me would like to “stick it to them” and withhold all the aid, but I know that a) that’s not right, b) taking the high road is ultimately the right thing to do, and c) karma is a bitch.
OzarkHillbilly
@Lapassionara: Back at his New Jersey club I think.
Kay
@satby:
Thanks. I evacuated once when I lived in North Carolina but the storm was over-hyped so we just drove around for 6 or so hours and went back. Luckily. Since I had about 11 dollars.
Central Planning
@Kay: My dad lives on the coast of NC. He won’t evacuate any more – it takes an extra day or two for him to be “allowed” back to his house after the evacuation order is limited. His house is 17′ above sea level and protected by trees, so hurricanes haven’t been bad for him.
Baud
@Lapassionara: He was at Camp David this weekend.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: Good luck to them.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
Cockiness in the sport kills. One of the key things in the overall situational awareness is to be aware of your own limitations and to be prepared to abort if you’re not feeling it, if a piece of equipment goes wonky or if conditions become more difficult than your plan.
I’ve watched that video by that dead Russian diver – it is very difficult to get through.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: thanks
Now my BiL is texting that the evacuation order only goes as far as the other side of the street. So they may stay. The only threat is water — well, water and gators. I wonder where all the deer in the area got to….
rikyrah
@Kay:
The rain is still coming down. I’m literally thinking…
WHO THE PHUCK HAS TIME FOR A PHOTO OP WITH HIM?
The only thing that I could see possible would be for him to pull an LBJ, who went up and down a flooded area in a boat, but I can’t see it. He doesn’t have that kind of human decency.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I am the petty one and don’t care.
OF COURSE, they should get the aid. Unlike the GOP, we’re not sociopaths.
But, those muthaphuckas should have to jump through hoops to get it.
rikyrah
@satby:
that’s the thing..we literally went from tropical storm to floods on a biblical level within 48 HOURS.
How the hell can you evacuate the 4th largest city in America in 48 hours?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
That CNN phone-in segment by those Texas Quarterly/Pro Publica (IIRC) writers needs to be played over and over for every sprawl-loving wingnut.
Basically, the science is clear – wetlands and grassy areas are critical components of the drainage pattern in any urban/suburban area. Pave them over and build on it to everyone’s peril, and in a lot of areas, stormwater/wastewater managers stop granting permits – even rebuilding permits – for construction in those area.
When the approached such a manager in the environs of Houston last year, he told them that the science was wrong.
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Yep, same in caving. I’ve seen it in action too many times.
Yeah, death porn is something I avoid unless there is a really good reason to watch. I don’t dive so I doubt I would learn anything from it.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize:
I got trapped in a flash flood along the Current River once. I observed a # of deer doing what deer do at such times: Swim for higher ground. They’re pretty good swimmers so I suspect most will be fine but more than a few will drown, especially the young’uns.
TS
@Kay: Can’t remember where I read it – but he was heading to a small place well away from the flood areas – photo op with his supporters.
wuzzat
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yeah, pretty much everyone with a rudimentary understanding of how wetlands work knows that screwing with them is a Bad Idea. There’s a reason why one of the Army Corps of Engineers’ ongoing projects for the last 20 years has been busting unnecessary dams and pulling up abandoned drainage tiles.
In other words, “Draining the Swamp”(TM) generally leads to catastrophic natural disasters. Go figure.
Davebo
@satby:
Not sure what you’re getting at here. Lodging was scarce during the Rita event as most hotels shut down. It’s not like they put you up at The Four Seasons. And you damn sure need a car to do any good in Houston.
Thanks for coming though!
mai naem mobile
@Lapassionara: he was at Camp David with Senior Advisors Ivanka and Jared so I wouldn’t be surprised if they did the non whacky tweets this weekend.
Davebo
@satby:
The Rita evacuation was probably the biggest man made disaster in Houston’s history.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kay:
That’s the odd thing about Trump, unlike most people in politics he has no ideology. It’s way to easy to overthink the guy.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
I watched it as a lesson to myself – as in “this is what a massive personal fuckup would be like”.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Hey, are we doing Trump Bingo on his commentary when he visits? If so, my card has “blame Obama” and “my big Electoral College win, which Texas was a part of”.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I am sending pleas out to the universe that they will all get through this ok. GATORS?!?! Oh no.
rikyrah
Widening #USCG communications for #Harvey rescue ops in #Houston: Call 281-464-(4851)(4852)(4853)(4854)(4855). Get on roofs. Mark locl w/SOS
— U.S. Coast Guard (@uscoastguard) August 27, 2017
rikyrah
They tell people to get out on their roofs. I don’t even know how. Does everyone here know how to get to their roof?
rikyrah
Hm. WH referring questions about the Trump Tower Moscow deal to Michael Cohen’s attorney.
— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) August 28, 2017
This, from June, seems newly relevant. Trump Org renewed trademarks for hotels/branding in Russia in April 2016. https://t.co/Okg00DRYp0
— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) August 28, 2017
Peale
@rikyrah: it’s the GOP, though, so they’ll come up with ways to blame the democrats for any failures and success will probably mean moving African Americans and Hispanics out of the area.
bystander
Thought about what people posted here about helping Texas. Then Pete Sessions came on Moanin Joe. Looked up Sessions’ voting record.
Nope.
rikyrah
#JoeBiden just wrote Everything We’ve Wanted to say About Trump,& It’s BRUTAL https://t.co/WkmD1WNhUP#TheResistance pic.twitter.com/lV5TIt6OsC
— Brook Bufa (@jupiter896) August 28, 2017
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
FEMA head asks all citizens to get involved. That there is some of that socialism! Bootstraps! MAGA!
Thotsnprars will fix it.
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: Without a ladder, no. And if there was six feet of water in my yard and my shed had floated away, I’d have a hard time locating my ladder.
I remember during Katrina, officials told folks to bring an ax with them if they had to move to their attic to escape the flood. That gave me the chills. Imagine being in an attic and having to hack through your roof. Good lord.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
FEMA head asks all citizens to get involved. That there is some of that evil communist Kenyan soc!alism!
Bootstraps! Rugged individualism! MAGA! Davy Crockett’s speech on disaster aid! These all work!
Thotsnprars will fix it, along with a repeal of the estate tax and lower corporate tax rates.
satby
@Davebo: what I was getting at is that there are more cost effective ways to house and transport volunteers than two to a room at the Hyatt and having many of them in individual rental cars. They had me fly to Austin and pick up a car and drive -solo- to Houston. And they had lots of other people do the same.
Edited to add, the Hyatt Regency Downtown Houston is a four star hotel, so the Four Seasons probably wouldn’t have been much different.
Eric U.
@rikyrah: we probably can get on our roof from the second floor porch roof. Many of the flooded houses are single story, so you would need a ladder. If we had to get on the second story roof, forget it. I imagine most of those people don’t have a ladder, they are expensive
Immanentize
@MomSense: yes. Gators. The area that they are in has man made lakes and a big slough (pronounced “sloo”) in the development. There are always gators in the slough, and often in the lakes. When the lake gators get bigger than 6 feet long (which is really not that big snout to tail tip) people call the HOA and they haul them off. Every lake has a “Do not feed the alligators” sign. But this flooding mixes it all up and the larger slough gators can just swim about anywhere.
ETA. It’s not the people who are really in danger, it’s the smaller dogs and cats.
rikyrah
Today in 1963, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream” speech.
Today in 2008, Obama became the 1st black presidential nominee. pic.twitter.com/fMgjdZJo5Z
— Eric Wolfson (@EricWolfson) August 28, 2017
satby
@Davebo: I can’t answer that one way or another, I was responding to Katrina and we were supposed to go do shelter support in Houston, but Rita became a threat. They still sent us to an evacuated city to await further instructions, then I got a team of eight and we were supposed to go to Nacadoches (which didn’t need us), but were finally diverted to Baton Rouge. My son was with the Marines in New Orleans, they weren’t letting civilians back in yet at that time.
satby
@Betty Cracker: yep, that’s what people did and do, hack through the roof if they can.
Kay
Trump’s lying about his sleazy pardon this morning. Deliberate misinformation. He seeks to mislead people every day.
Sheriff Joe is already grifting off the pardon. I bet he gets a Fox show.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I once decided not to swim in the ocean near me after seeing a guy catch two yuuge stripers near me. And then there was the time my friend had someone trap some horrifically gigantic beavers out of the lake near their camp. It’s been 10 years and I still feel a twinge of fear before going for a swim.
Quinerly
@Central Planning:
Keep an eye on PKS for us.? There’s a tropical disturbance that my Newport friend is tracking. I’m going to be really tied up for a few weeks here (less BJ for me?) but heading that way in October for a month. Newport friend is excitable.? Got your email and haven’t had a chance to respond. Any chance you will be on the island visiting your dad in October? I was actually there last year then and stayed for Matthew. Had friends in New Bern who live on a boat and evacuated to my place. We had a good laugh on that one.
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yep.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: Tread water until it reaches them?
Amaranthine RBG
@bystander: yes! And Texas helped elect Trump. Not a dime for those sons of bitches.
Jeffro
Houston = blue city
More importantly, these are my fellow Americans and I’m going to donate to help them just like I would citizens of any state in this country.
Kay
Here’s Sheriff Joe bragging about his pardon and joking about he and Trump’s Birther crusade:
Does his wife know he put a webcam in a women’s restroom? Maybe that’s standard for Trump’s friends. Gross sleazes that they are.
bystander
Just heard Chris Jansing say, about the news that Trump was planning a tower in Moscow, “He wants to bring the Trump brand to Putin’s back door.” Honestly. She said that. Beyond the obvious imagery, could she have mentioned that he was doing that while saying he had no business dealings in Russia?
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
Good morning from Poco and his tribe???. Have a great day! Healing thoughts to your sister.
Jeffro
@bystander: I thought Putin was bringing his brand to trumps back door?? ?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
Conservatives view success through a tunnel – obtaining and keeping power while escaping all consequence for the abuse of that power.
Once you understand that dynamic, you can be appropriately disgusted, distressed and saddened.
Kay
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
That this scumbag didn’t even have to do one day is a travesty. Here he is bragging and promoting his career as a grifter in 2011:
I can assume Sessions supports this? Abusing people who are incarcerated and have no way to defend themselves?
“In custody” means something. It means you are the custodian. You have a duty to treat your wards decently.
Lapassionara
@Jeffro: Houston welcomed refugees from Katrina with open arms. The city was magnanimous, although there were of course some individuals who groused, including, IIRC, Barbara “beautiful mind” Bush.
Felonius Monk
@Kay:
Just what Fox needs — an 85 yo shithead to entertain 85 yo shitheads.
OzarkHillbilly
A Catastrophe for Houston’s Most Vulnerable People
Within cities, poor communities of color often live in segregated neighborhoods with higher flood risks. This is especially true in Houston.
Not helping says more about you than it ever will about Texans.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
When Arpaio dies (hopefully after a stay in a nursing home and tended to by orderlies who stayed in one of his facilities), they’ll need to install a hose next to his grave marker to wash off the daily collection of feces and urine.
danielx
Texas Flood
Davebo
@satby: Meh. I’ve stayed at the Hyatt downtown and lived for a year in the Four Seasons and trust me, there’s a difference. But again, at that point there weren’t any Motel 6’s open.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Thinking about the coastal flooding problem and impossible mass evacuations. About the only real solutions I can think of are placing a pontoon boat and three zodiacs at every firehouse in a 100 year floodplain, along with adequate fuel for 48 hours of continuous operation.
Davebo
@Amaranthine RBG:
As if you have two nickels to rub together. Trust me, Houston will be fine without your pennies.
Librarian
@Kay: Yes, that’s my concern: if the government handles this halfway competently, the media will go into orgasms about how presidential he is and how “He passed his first big test!!!!!” etc. etc.ad nauseam. We’ll never hear the end of it. You know they can’t wait to do that.
rikyrah
@Quinerly:
Morning to Poco, Ivan and John Lennon :)
Immanentize
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The evacuation problem is real. But people would be best off to leave if they can before an evacuation order comes down. But of course they don’t because only 1 in ??? Hurricanes turn out to be a Katrina or a Sandy or a Harvey. If a storm is heading at you, best to take a day away to see what happens rather than stay and find out up close.
The mayor of Houston could have told his people this.
Davebo
@Immanentize:
I can see that press conference.
(Wednesday) There’s a tropical storm in the Gulf. We have no idea if it will grow in strength or make landfall within 500 miles of the city but you may want to make a road trip to somewhere just in case.
(Thursday) That tropical storm in the Gulf has grown slightly stronger but it’s still just a tropical storm. Looks like it will make landfall a 3 1/2 hour drive away, or not. Still you should probably pack some bags and take whatever money you’d saved for that vacation next year and get on the road.
(Friday) That tropical storm has grown to a weak hurricane but it will be getting stronger and make landfall at least 3 1/2 hours drive away. GET OUT!
The mayor did EXACTLY the right thing. Statewide we’ve had I believe 5 fatalities from the storm. Over 110 died during the ill advised evacuation for Rita.
Gin & Tonic
So I only knew the name Dan Drezner from his seemingly constant presence on Twitter, and some writing for WaPo. Turns out that IRL he’s a professor at the Fletcher School. Now he will be my son’s faculty advisor. Pretty cool.
Immanentize
@Davebo: Straw man extraordinaire.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: I recall that Trump initially wanted to cut USCG’s budget as well.
@Gin & Tonic: It’s a small world after all.
But her emails!!!
@Immanentize:
100 people died during the evacuation for Rita. Roads were so choked with cars that it was taking on average 12 hours to get from Houston to San Antonio with some people reporting as long as 20. It took an entire day to get to Dallas. Plus there were the breakdowns and people running out of gas. There was basically a window of maybe 48 hours to evacuate for this storm. How many die if they were stuck on the road when the hurricane hit?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Immanentize:
I was in Jamaica for Sandy when it was either a 1 or a weak 2. We lost power for only a couple of hours and they moved us to another room in the complex at Half Moon, but it was only at its max for what seemed to be about six hours. It played hell with the beach and washed the sand up to 2-3 feet deep on the walks up to the doors.
Two days after, I attempted to wade into the ocean under a red flag and mostly clear skies – it got halfway up my calf about 8 inches) and I retreated in fear that I’d get sucked out to sea. Current was that strong.
Immanentize
@But her emails!!!: Clearly you didn’t read a fucking thing I said.
But her emails!!!
@Immanentize:
I read exactly what you said. You just didn’t think about what you actually said means if everyone follows your advice.
Immanentize
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I was in Sandy here in Boston. Lost two trees, the tree across the street (a hundred year old maple) came down and crushed my car. It dragged three telephone poles down with it crushing my neighbor’s car as well. We lost power for four days. They had to bring in heavy machinery (bull dozers and building cranes) to move the wreckage of the big tree. But all that was just stuff. Everyone lived.
But it was some powerful end of world stuff.
My in laws in Texas are also dealing with pop up tornados where they are….
Barbara
@satby: Satby, you know much more about this than I do, but it is possible the Red Cross has deals with hotels the same way large corporations do so that their rate is much lower than yours would be. It’s also the case that sometimes logistics are just too time consuming when things have to happen immediately. I am not going out of my way to defend ARC, but these seem like relatively minor complaints.
Immanentize
@But her emails!!!: how did what I wrote have anything to do with the mandatory evacuations fuck up by Texas years ago? Please quote specifically so I can understand your thinking?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“restructured” “saving”
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
I’m with you. I want Chuck Schumer to get a signed, notarized agreement from Cruz and Cornyn that they will never block disaster aid for any other state again before Texas gets their aid. I want Nancy Pelosi to get a similar signed and notarized agreement from the House.
No more handshakes and “gentleman’s agreements.” I want that shyt IN WRITING.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The NYT had a good article about the flood insurance program, focusing on Norfolk, and how it is, albeit very slowly, changing the way people think about building in flood plains and areas that are prone to storm surge and flooding. But you can’t reverse something that has been going on for 30 years and suddenly punish people for building in a place where they thought they would receive protection. I am not sufficiently steeped in this at the micro level, but there is a real question whether people who continue to build on the Outer Banks or Fire Island should really be subsidized by taxpayers for flood damage. I see flood insurance as a distinct issue from FEMA assistance. People who are subjected to natural disasters should be helped. The question is what efforts should be made to mitigate the likelihood that they will be vulnerable to repeated natural disasters in the future.
rikyrah
Elizabeth Warren’s GOP Challengers Have No Credentials and No Credibility
by D.R. Tucker
August 27, 2017
Like a championship team whose top rivals are nowhere in their class, it appears that US Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) will be facing off against a member of the GOP B-team next year. Apparently, the days of Republicans recruiting main-event players (Mitt Romney in 1994, Bill Weld in 1996) to challenge the Bay State’s senators are over.
Romney loyalist Beth Lindstrom has now officially launched her effort to unseat Warren, and hilariously, her campaign is trying to promote the idea that she’s an “independent-minded Republican.” Of course, “independent-minded Republicans,” like unicorns and fairies, don’t actually exist, so who the hell is Lindstrom trying to fool?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara: those are valid points, but it was the tweet that set me off, that the goal of these cuts is to provide funds for that stupid. fucking. “wall”. And seeing the Sainted and Blessed General Kelly blathering about the Beast’s commitment to “American security” etc. He’s always been all-in on the worst aspects of trump’s agenda, and now, because he managed to fire some embarrassing ass-clowns, we’re supposed to believe he’s the part of some dream team of noble souls defending the Constitution from The Beast.
chopper
@Amaranthine RBG:
houston didn’t.
rikyrah
On Thursday, Bob Bauer explained how pardoning Arpaio, while expedient in the moment, may come back to haunt Trump. https://t.co/MMz2ToIq1u pic.twitter.com/hFoPhPUIlC
— Shane Harris (@shaneharris) August 27, 2017
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
Satby hinted in another thread that there’s other stuff that happened that she can’t talk about because the Red Cross was actually sued over their Katrina activities and that confidentiality was part of the settlement agreement.
She’s traveled to do charity work on multiple occasions, so if she says that ARC is particularly wasteful, I believe her. I will probably be sending my donations to the Houston Food Bank unless someone has a better idea.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Betty Cracker Yes having an axe or maul or hatchet kept in the attic is a really good idea if you can and if you live anywhere near an ocean, river or bayou/swamp. Having to find your only ax/hatchet in the garage or basement as the water rises is scary(had friends of friends in NOLA during Katrina) also a good idea to have a copy of your home/apt insurance papers in a water proof bag in the attic. I could get on my roof from my back steps but deciding roof or attic is tricky. If it’s raining and windy and help may not come for hours you maybe safer in the attic. But if no one can see you, help may not come…how do you hang on to a couple of kids for hours on a slippery roof? Life and death calculations I hope I never have to make.
But her emails!!!
@Immanentize:
1. This looks an awful like you saying that everyone who can, should leave the city as soon as a there is a tropical storm with a reasonable chance of landfall and that the mayor should have told them that.
2. It’s reasonable advice on a personal level, provided that most people stay in place. Not so much if everyone follows it which is more likely to happen if the mayor says, “I’m not calling for a mandatory or voluntary evacuation, but it would be best if y’all got out of the city.”
3. If a few million people decide to take a day (or 3) away you get the crowding and logistics issues that happened with Rita and the resulting mayhem regardless of whether it is a mandatory evacuation or just people running for the exits. These would probably be even more pronounced if city, county and state officials/workers don’t take the steps they would have during a mandatory evacuation.
Mel
@Kay: Kay, you are absolutely right.
And usuallly, the people blaming those left behind are those who are either nowhere near the disaster zone, or those with ample resources who are already comfortably ensconced with relatives or in a decrnt hotel. Granted, there are usually a few cranks who could evacuate but choose to stay (“I’m 65 years old and I’ve lived through [2?5?8?] of these [hurricanes / tornadoes/ floods / fires/ earthquakes]. I’m not about to let this one chase me out of my home, either, nosirree.”), but the vast majority of people left behind are there for reasons beyond their control.
Although a disaster like this is a nightmare for everyone involved, those with high income will likely come out of it just fine in the end. Why? Because they most likely will not have been physically IN the disaster zone. And afterwards, they will be alright as well, because they likely have jobs that allow paid personal time off, can afford insurance with lower deductibles and full replacement value policies to cover their damaged homes, necessities, and luxury items, and cover their living expenses while they are out of their homes during repairs or rebuilding.
But what about the vast majority of people who live check to check, and who cannot make rent or buy food if they miss several days’ work? Who have no paid time off? Who cannot afford a car to drive themselves out of the disaster zone? Who cannot afford hotel stays? Who have to choose between paying for essential medicines or paying for renters insurance? Whose bosses can and will fire them at will for not showing up for a work shift, even if working that shift means losing their only available ride out of the affected city or area?
What about those who have no support system of people outside the disaster zone? What about people who are isolated or have had a difficult time making community connections due to age, illness, physical disability or mental disability?
I saw a horrifying photo of nursing home residents sitting inside their building in wheelchairs, waist deep in dirty flood water.
Of course, that is not where they wanted to be. But they were at the mercy of the owner of the nursing home. In many such facilities, the elderly, ill, or disabled might have no close relatives left in the area, or might have relatives who rarely visit and just assume that the relative is no longer their responsibility or burden (happens more times than one would think). Thank goodness the residents were eventually evacuated by helicopter, but my point remains: most who stay are not staying by choice. They are staying because they have (for any number of reasons) no other choice.
According to the articles I saw, the nursing home owner said that she chose to not evacuate the residents because some supposed, unspecified person told her that she didn’t really need to evacuate b/c the building “hadn’t flooded before” in other previous bad weather.
Sorry, but that’s like saying, “I have cut my hand on a sheet of paper before and was just fine. Therefore, if I cut off my hand with this butcher knife, I’ll still be fine, because all cuts are exsctly the same!” My suspicion is that a gamble was made b/c of the time and expense required to move and safely re-house numerous frail, ill, and elderly folks. Unfortunately, those most unable to protect themselves are the ones who end up suffering.
WaterGirl
@Amaranthine RBG: Please take this someplace else.
chopper
@But her emails!!!:
also remember, houston is designed such that the major roads act like rivers during huge rains, funneling water back to the ocean. that’s why you see all these pics of interstates with water up to the signs. if you’re going to tell people to get on those roads and get out you better have a lot of time for the roads to clear before the water starts rising.
machine
Despite a controlled release from two reservoirs northwest of Houston around 2AM this morning their levels are rising again. And the Brazos River is about to hose a number of communities southwest of town. The nearby subdivision of Meyerland is having a terrible time of it. And on top of it all Louisiana is about to get some wicked rain bands from this.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Despite what many would have us believe Kelly is wedded to T’s priorities of immigrant hate.
Kirk
@Immanentize:
That makes complete sense – just take a day away and make sure.
Unless you have a job, probably hourly, where the absence can mean you no longer have a job a few days later. No evacuation order (voluntary or otherwise)? No excuse.
satby
@Barbara: I have no doubt they got some sort of corporate discount and Hyatt and Avis got tax write-offs for those donations. There’s still cheaper and more cost effective ways to deploy people. The Propublica article goes into the aftermath of the reforms instituted after Katrina, and lots of the same stuff happened after Sandy. No matter how badly they get dinged, they do the same things again.
Send your donations where you want; but if I donate and go work a disaster I want my money and time going to people who use it more productively.
For fullest disclosure, I worked on the Hyatt account as well as the Red Cross one in IT. But I have no personal knowledge of what discounts were given to ARC by Hyatt, if any. I just knew what kind of people were running them.
Edit to add: and I got the highest performance reviews possible on both accounts, so I’m not stating anything out of personal animus.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
No lie told.
Don’t forget…Kelly was ok and tried to rationalize a program that would separate parents and children caught crossing the border.
satby
@Davebo: and you completely missed the point of what I was saying anyway. It wasn’t a statement on hotel comparisons, but one on effective use of volunteers, staff, and emergency funds that I was commenting on. But see above for my whateva.
Kirk
One thing about the evacuation to know. The various teams responsible did look at Rita and did put a bunch of things in planning – and in annual rehearsals – to try to alleviate some of the problems. Just as a couple of examples: pre-positioned fuel tankers to top off all gas stations (and make some additional temporaries) along the evacuation routes, and designated traffic control teams with traffic assistance (tow trucks and such) also pre-positioned at identified critical locations.
Would it have worked? Dunno. It’s not been tested. It’s been planned and rehearsed, though, which gives it a fighting chance. Even if it worked travel would have been ugly.
But it would have required an evacuation order, even voluntary, for legal implementation. And it’s worth keeping in mind that the governor has to sign off on it to release all the NG and other emergency forces implementing the plan.
Just something I recently learned when I said “but Rita” to people actually involved in the process.
rikyrah
All About The Base: Why Open Primaries and Caucuses Are a Terrible Idea
Trevor LaFauci
August 28, 2017
………………………………………………..
As bad as caucuses are, open primaries may be even less democratic. Because open primaries allow for ratfucking to the nth degree. By having someone show up on primary day and choose a party, there’s no guarantee that this person has noble intentions in mind. He or she can be voting for their chosen candidate or can be voting against a candidate for a party that they are not even a member of. Take Michigan for example. During the state’s March Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton had a 99% chance of winning according to all polling projections. Yet due to 7% of Democrats crossing over to vote on the Republican side and 4% of Republicans voting on the Democratic side, she ended up losing a close race that nobody saw coming. It’s hard to claim open primaries can lead to a transparent voting process when that system allows for an 11-point swing by people who voted solely with nefarious intentions.
Yet since both of these systems helped Bernie Sanders, his supporters seemingly approve of the idea of replicating them nationwide. And they want to do this because these systems would help them and nobody else. The typical Bernie Sanders supporter has time to give up on a Saturday afternoon. He can afford childcare. He doesn’t have to work weekends. He can be loud and proud of his candidate and not worry about what his neighbors might think of his pervasive political beliefs. He can also decide, late in the game, that he wants to show up on primary day and register for a political party that he’s never been a part of. In either of these cases, this Bernie Sanders supporter will feel right at home, being among his fellow supporters in a safe and secure environment.
But while both of these systems help Bernie Sanders supporters, they do not help the Democratic base. You know, the ones who actually voted for Hillary Clinton. The 94% of African-American women who voted for Hillary. The 82% of African-American men who voted for Hillary. The 75% of Asian-Americans. The 66% of Latinos. The reliable voting bloc of the Democratic Party that has now overwhelmingly become people of color and not White men and women, who failed to support Hillary Clinton at the levels needed. In fact, 53% of White women voted for Donald Trump and 63% of White men did the same. The base, the all-important and necessary supporters of the Democratic Party no matter what, has officially become people of color and these are the people who represent the present and future of the Democratic Party.
Which is why it is absolutely asinine to even consider making it more difficult for these people to vote, which is exactly what moving toward an open primary and caucus system would do. The nominating process should be simple and should be open to as many people as possible. But at the same thing, there need to be rules. You cannot simply roll out of bed one morning and decide to cast a vote in a Democratic Party primary. It is not a particular inconvenience to find a candidate you like and to register to become a member of his or her political party 30 days before the primary. It is; however, an inconvenience to force every single registered voter to give up multiple hours on a weekend to participate in an antiquated and awkward nominating process where bullying and intimidation can impact your sacred right to vote. As both Washington and Nebraska showed us, closed primaries greatly increase both participation and faith in the democratic process and are more representative of a state’s true political leanings.
And that should be the ultimate goal of the Democratic Unity Commission. The name implies the desire to bring the party together. To do that, the commission needs to listen to its supporters, and specifically, its base. Bernie Sanders and his supporters are not the base. When 10% of them chose to vote for a Nazi rather than support the Democratic nominee, they officially forfeited their ability to influence Democratic Party policy. They are not the base and 1 in 10 of them aren’t even Democrats, as demonstrated by their vote. They are a minority of voters who want to shape the Democratic Party in the image of a man who lost the nomination by 3.5 million votes and 900 delegates. Their desire to move toward an open primary and caucus system would benefit only their supporters and would disadvantage the vast majority of the Democratic Party base.
A base that doesn’t want or need any of their help.
rikyrah
Fire ants form a protective island as they float out the #Houston flood pic.twitter.com/UBORwAzA4R
— Omar Villafranca (@OmarVillafranca) August 27, 2017
rikyrah
White House photos show Trump sitting alone at Camp David while Pence runs hurricane Situation Room https://t.co/ZeZR6yfo03
— Michael F Ozaki MD (@brontyman) August 28, 2017
rikyrah
BREAKING: Illinois just became to 10th state to enact automatic voter registration! https://t.co/lwnz3y6wOA pic.twitter.com/VLTKZyN1aV
— Common Cause (@CommonCause) August 28, 2017
AVR is signed into law in Illinois, estimated to add 1 million new eligible voters to the rolls. https://t.co/sMDcBxPn9a
— flippable (@flippable_org) August 28, 2017
Barbara
@satby: I have no doubt your experience and knowledge give you greater insight, but I was just pointing out that suboptimal policies for hotel and rental car arrangements don’t seem like the kind of issues that make an organization existentially bad. “Good” hotels are more likely to have back up power and continuing service availability. I usually donate to a variety of organizations because none of them offers total assistance, and I consider the Red Cross to be strictly disaster assistance.
Davebo
@Immanentize:
I don’t think you know what “straw man” really means.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay:
What’s interesting is even Arpaio couldn’t believe at first he was getting a pardon from Trump
MomDoc
@Davebo:
Very true! They tried to evacuate during Rita but sitting on the freeway is not true evacuation. Most people who were here during Rita aren’t going to evacuate — we didn’t during Ike which was more of a direct hit. Harvey hit 220 miles away. It’s a 500-year storm — there was just no precedent for what we are seeing right now.
As I noted in an earlier thread: 24 hours to drive a 4-hour trip (Houston to Dallas)! Not again.
@rikyrah: This point is not mentioned enough! At the beginning of the week, Harvey was just remnants. By the time it turned into a hurricane, it was too late.
Barbara
@rikyrah: You can’t. You have to think about the worst traffic jam you have ever been in locally and multiply by a factor of 2 or 3 (at least) to imagine the intensity of resulting traffic. Houston is the fourth largest city in the U.S. Only Los Angeles, New York and possibly Chicago are larger. I can’t begin to imagine how you would evacuate any of these cities over a 48 hour time frame. You could try to stage: people in a certain zip code leave at this time, using a certain route, while people in other zip codes leave at other times using a different initial egress, etc. But we aren’t nearly that coordinated and people are prone to panic and not observe limits on their behavior.
satby
@Barbara: and I pointed out better (ie, more fiscally responsible) charities upthread. And the hotel and car story were examples I personally lived. The point wasn’t about the fucking hotel, for God’s sake! It was about an organization that continually spins up hordes of volunteers and sucks billions of dollars away from other charities doing the same work better, and then fails to utilize either the money or the volunteers as effectively as they could. And it happens every disaster.
But those facts seem to conflict with your deeply held beliefs. Again, do what you want with your money, but don’t keep arguing with me about it. There’s legitimate reasons people don’t give to the Red Cross, and it’s almost always a direct result of dealing with them in a disaster, working for them, or in other direct contact with them.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
Don’t know if this is helpful but here is the local traffic hazards map of greater Houston/Baytown/Galveston, with the high-water area’s marked:
http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/layers/layers_ve.aspx?x=29.7925&y=-95.0799&z=15&inc=true
Also another charity to think about is ShelterboxUSA.org
They are rated 4 out of 4 on Charity Navigator and are reportedly staging now to help with Harvey: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/28/1693868/-Tropical-Storm-Harvey-Check-in-Page-Thread-8
I donated through them after the Haiti quake
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I see Pence looking presidential and Trump being sidelined from the action. Not subtle. Pence would be happy with those photos, Trump would not.
Gemina13
I finally heard from my friend. She, her husband, and their cats are fine. The roof, however, is fucked.
Mel
@Gemina13: Thank goodness they are alright! They were in my thoughts today.