Sometimes I can’t believe what an unbelievable shill for Trump Maggie Haberman can be.
This is not how Politico story is being read, but reality is this is a signal the president does not actually want to end DACA and 1/
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) September 4, 2017
She thinks there’s a good chance DACA passes Congress and gets signed by Trump. I just can’t see how that happens. Why would Trump sign something that he promised to end?
Amanda in the South Bay
Because so many on the left bought NYT subs after the election she feels confident in her paycheck being there that she can publish her bullshit.
Snarki, child of Loki
“Why would Trump sign something that he promised to end?”
Because they put TRUMP in large, golden letters, at the top, with lots of impenetrable small print underneath?
Really, you could probably get Trump to sign his own death warrant using that one simple trick.
Shalimar
It isn’t how the Politico story is being read because the vast majority of us aren’t stupid enough to believe that the current Congress can pass a bill.
Valdivia
I have been off lurking for a looooong time but had to say thank you to Doug for writing this.
Her pimping Trump’s PR on this of all nights and on this of all topics is repugnant hackery
efgoldman
She’s just Cilliza with a skirt, and deserves to be given the same credibility.
tobie
Paging John Cole, Betty Cracker, Tom Levenson and any other BJers on Twitter–Please let Maggie Haberman know that it’s not the job of journalists to disseminate the administration’s spin as news. This is beyond the pale. She’s a stenographer for the Trump administration.
JPL
@Snarki, child of Loki: True, but you do have to have it in a nice binder.
Holden Pattern
[Sigh] Of course Trump wants to end DACA because he’s a racist asshole pandering to his racist asshole base, but the beauty of the 6 months is that he gives the Republicans in Congress 800K hostages to use against the Dems, and no matter the outcome in Congress, Trump gets credit for wanting to get rid of the anchor baby illegals.
Raven
@tobie: yea because we don’t post her shit and whine about it ALL the fuckin time!
SiubhanDuinne
@Valdivia:
Wow, SO good to see you back! Please don’t be a stranger.
Mike in NC
Thrush & Haberman. What else do you need to say “Fuck the Fucking New York Times”.
Gin & Tonic
@Valdivia: Good to see you around. It seems we have both been dealing with orthopedic trauma, from what a mutual acquaintance says. I hope you get through yours as quickly as practicable.
efgoldman
@tobie:
Either she’s totally lacking in self-awareness, or she doesn’t care. Either disqualifies her from a prominent spot at the FYNYT
Yutsano
JFC Doug stop the earworms please!
@Valdivia: You’re a sight for sore eyes for sure! Always great seeing you about in our little corner den of vacuous jackals.
I mean we talk on Twitter all the time true but still…
Valdivia
@SiubhanDuinne: waves excitedly! I am around but rarely comment, but maybe I will be back more often thanks to Doug saying exactly what needed saying re Maggie and her pimping for Trump. BTW, a very belated happy birthday as I know you had one about a month ago (if I remember correctly!)
@Gin & Tonic: oh no, hope you are doing ok. I am finally walking, today though I had a little scare in the kitchen, my healing foot almost twisted again. I am ok but I almost had a heart attack.
@Yutsano: hey there! Always nice to come hang out here with you all. You are right twitter is not the same :)
tobie
@Holden Pattern:
I’ve already heard the rumor that the ransom he’ll ask the GOP to demand is funding for the wall in exchange for DACA.
Gin & Tonic
@Valdivia: Thanks. I’ve made some progress, but it hasn’t been nearly as quickly as I’d like.
SFAW
@Mike in NC:
The fishwrap rots from the head. The sooner Pinch DsIAF, and the sooner a publisher with some integrity takes over — hell, I’d settle for Zombie Kay Graham — the sooner the Times will return to its former glory.
I don’t know why Pinch hates the Clintons so much, but he’s been that way since he took over from Punch (in 1992). Were Punch still alive, he’d probably be saying “WTF?” and “FTFNYT,” just like the rest of us.
sharl
Beat sweetening, bayyybee! (aka source greasing). It’s a tradition that’s at least a couple decades old, and I assume much, much older than that. It just feels particularly dirty and egregious with the current POTUS.
Timothy Noah wrote a primer on it in 2009, early in President Obama’s first term; and shortly after GWB’s 2000 victory Slate held a contest for best beat sweetener. I assume the timing is not coincidental: taking advantage of whatever “honeymoon” period exists after an election victory makes a certain kind of sense I suppose.
Twitler has specifically called Haberman in the past to give interviews, and it’s best to not burn that bridge.
Access journamalism, gotta love it!*
*(or…maybe not…)
ETA: deleted some textual detritus.
piratedan
well its nice to know that Maggie can type and submit articles one-handed and still retain her soothing ball fondling of the administration with the other…
Valdivia
@Gin & Tonic: oh boy do know what you mean. Sends good vibes for things to speed up :)
rikyrah
Bytch…
JUST STOP!!!????
SiubhanDuinne
@Valdivia:
Waves back enthusiastically! Hope you will comment more frequently; you have been missed in these parts. Thanks for b’day wishes; yes, a month ago today in fact :-)
Haberman has been a huge disappointment. For a long time I wanted to give her benefit of the doubt, but I just can’t any longer.
Amanda in the South Bay
@sharl:
Twitler has specifically called Haberman in the past to give interviews, and it’s best to not burn that bridge.
If only she had anything more to show for that than piss warm, watered down soap opera melodrama.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
You’re much too patient and forgiving.
Major Major Major Major
Had lunch with a senior editor at Buzzfeed. We talked about how much we hate Haberman. He complained about Ben Smith. Apparently they’re not allowed to have opinions on account of working in the newsroom. Smith and Haberman both have the same antiquated, myopic notion of “just the facts, ma’am” journalism being the proper archetype.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
It’s a curse.
dmsilev
Earth to Ms. Haberman: If Trump wanted to keep DACA in place, he’d …keep DACA in place. Subtle 11-dimensional bank-shot ploys are …not in his nature.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
I have plenty of extra cynicism. You want to come over and borrow a cupful?
Just one more canuck
A more appropriate song lyric about Maggie would be Tramp the Dirt Down
Valdivia
@SiubhanDuinne: I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but I confess I mostly want to punch her when I read her sanctimonious bullshit on twitter :)
I’ve missed you guys too, life has been….hectic to say the least but I am alive and have all my parts and am constantly incandescently angry at this sociopath who is in office.
efgoldman
@Valdivia:
It’s a long, long time ago (maybe before the 2006 elections) but my memory says you were the first commenter to reply to me directly on this blog.
O. Felix Culpa
@Just one more canuck: Win!
patrick II
Many in the republican congress can live with DACA — but not with a path to citizenship so they can vote. For Trump and his followers its a matter of hate, for Republican tacticians its a matter of winning elections and cutting taxes.
mai naem mobile
I am not even sure this is because he’s a racist. I am not saying he’s not racist but I think he’s a huge attention seeker and he knows when everybody tells him not to do something and he does it he’ll get a lot of attention. I am not a psychologist but this guy is either just mentally ill or developmentally disabled in some fashion and mentally ill. That lack of empathy is a symptom of it. And don’t jump on me because I don’t think the vast vast majority of mentally ill or developmentally disabled people act like this. It may be his wealth that’s allowed this. Also too, dementia might be part of the picture.
James Powell
@patrick II:
But they don’t want anyone to know that and they certainly don’t want to vote for it. They all saw what happened to Eric Cantor.
SiubhanDuinne
@Valdivia:
That is a good thing.
Anyone who isn’t just hasn’t been paying attention. But the constant rage can’t be healthy in the long run. And I’m not sure how to deal with it, without going into full-blown avoidance/denial.
azlib
@tobie:
Not sure that makes sense, since DACA is pretty popular even among Republicans and the wall is not popular.. Of course nothing much makes sense when it comes to Trump.
Another Scott
@dmsilev: True.
I don’t read Maggie, and only very rarely read beyond the front page of the FTFNYT, but I decided to check Maggie’s Twitter feed. She seems to be trying to say that the Politico story has too many unfilled holes to know what he’s planning on announcing. And she agrees that there are obvious legal challenges if he does decide to end it. So, it’s possible that he doesn’t really want to end it. Possible. Like me winning Powerball this week.
I blame Twitter. And Politico. And access journamalism (as sharl so well put it, above).
But, either way, we have to fight them every single day.
There’s something more than a little evil about getting 800,000 people to give up their personal details in exchange for “deferred action” and then have that information be used against them upon a change of administration.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Valdivia
@efgoldman: that makes me happy to know :) Thanks for remembering that.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne:
That’s not true, some of them are racist.
FlyingToaster
@Amanda in the South Bay: ‽
Everybody and his pet pig cancelled their NYT subscriptions, except for the people who couldn’t stay on hold and have been cancelling them ever since.
Starfish
@Major Major Major Major: She really does nothing to back up her notion of what reality is so I am not sure how this is a fact.
Major Major Major Major
@Starfish: Like everything else she reports, it’s expressionless repetition of what some sources or other in the white house say.
ETA: It doesn’t make it true, it just means they say it
Valdivia
@SiubhanDuinne: I hear you! It is definitely not healthy. I try to go off line from time to time just to keep sane but then I feel like I need to know what evil is afoot you know? Luckily for me class prep and teaching consume so much time that I can only indulge the rage by bits during those days and on the weekend I have futbol to keep me passionately distracted. I have actually upped my futbol consumption to balance out my political rage.
@mai naem mobile: I am with you on this, he seems to suffer from the most malignant form of narcissism I ever saw but also has elements of a sociopath. Really quite unreal that he is in office given this.
Another Scott
@mai naem mobile: He’s brain damaged.
Trump interview on September 13, 2001 by German TV (11:38) – he wasn’t insane in 2001.
Cheers,
Scott.
Valdivia
I endorse this:
FlipYrWhig
@Major Major Major Major: Usually when there’s a story to the effect that Trump isn’t _really_ such a bad guy and that he’s _trying SO HARD_ to do the right thing if only he could get a fair shake, the source is Ivanka.
Peale
@patrick II: nope. Calling bullshit on that. The amnesty of any sort is a non starter for the GOP, and that includes a path to permanent residency. It’s kind of like the fight for same sex marriage…your moderate GOP is still a crank, and when they say “well, does it have to be marriage? How about civil partnerships?” you know full well that they’ll show up to oppose “civil partnerships” when the time comes. Same with offering any hope to DACA humans. The Dems might as well start pushing for immediate citizenship rather than a path because there will be no aid coming from the GOP.
sharl
@patrick II: That’s definitely one thing. Another very big thing is that you can get away with underpaying, late paying or sometimes not paying at all, as long as you have the option of threatening an undocumented worker with arrest and/or deportation.
I remember way back when I used to watch TV news interviews that – all too rarely – an interviewer would ask a panel of opponents of legislative redress for undocumented immigrants “why not increase sanctions on the people who hire them without background checks?” And I’d laugh* when the panelists would disingenuously shoot confused glances at the interview and each other, like they’d never been exposed to the idea of employer sanctions (*I’d get mad later). Of course, as greedy and venal as these media “experts” were (and are), they’re not that stupid!
The participants in the various chains of suppliers, vendors/corporations, and customers that profit from this source of cheap and vulnerable labor are collectively politically powerful, and can also put the hurt on even a big media outfit that asks excessively inconvenient questions. The best way to continue benefiting from the situation while not troubling one’s beautiful mind is to avoid discussing the issue altogether in any serious depth. Voila!
Another Scott
Maggie retweeted:
Maybe she’s get a chance to ask Donnie about that the next time she sees him…
:-(
We’re being ruled by monsters. We have to fight them every single day.
Cheers,
Scott.
joel hanes
@Holden Pattern:
Love the nym
O. Felix Culpa
@Valdivia: Wow. The tweet responses to Miss Maggie are, shall we say, strong. No quarter given. (And none deserved.)
burnspbesq
A bill to restore DACA can pass. There are plenty of Republicans who favor the concept, but thought it was overreach for the Keenyan Mooslim Yoosurper to do it administratively (they’re wrong, but if they do the right thing for the wrong reason, I’ll find a way to live with that).
Whether it can pass with veto-proof majorities is a whole other question.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Thank goodness Drumpf isn’t married to an illegal immigrant.
Mike J
DougJ, some time this month I’m expecting a post titled, “I was your butch and you were touched.”
efgoldman
@burnspbesq:
I don’t really think this congress can or will pass anything.
But I’m not sure Velveeta Valdemort can even spell “veto” or whether he’d do that with a bill passed by a RWNJ congress/senate.
Not saying he wouldn’t, but I don’t think he has any idea what he’d do.
Valdivia
@O. Felix Culpa: that is the silver lining, seeing her getting hammered pretty hard.
O. Felix Culpa
@Valdivia: Yeah, the hammering was virtually unanimous. Perhaps even the trolls were too embarrassed to cover for her.
jl
Hi to Valdivia, welcome back.
I’m reminded of your pics. I’ll go look for the link.
” president does not actually want to end DACA ”
i don’t think Trump knows what he wants to do. If Haberman has evidence that Trump can do tricks like that, she should explain.
I don’t think Trump has made any firm specific promise on it. Been playing the room on it. “I’ll treat them well” etc.
Probably some ‘last guy in the room; gave him this as a way out.
Deporting someone who has grown up here and had no role in decision to come here would be monstrous.
So, some of his base loves it, of course. But I think the fall out would drive his approval rating down further, and if someone whispered that in Trump’s ear, he would look for a way out.
I read up, as much as a layman can, on the law on undocumented entry and residence. It is complicated. And some of it makes me wonder if what goes on, even before Trump came in, is constitutional. Weird that it seems like higher burden of proof to convict someone of illegal entry (which is a criminal offense) than to deport an unauthorized resident (which is a civil offense). but we don’t have ‘lawful residence ID’ or internal passports in this country, so whose business is undocumented residence anyway? Why can’t people just tell fuzz asking for papers to go eat some shit? The more I read the more confused I got. I am sure a BJ lawyer person can set me straight.
In the meantime, we don;t seem to have the resources to prioritize deportation of dangerous undocumented criminals, and now since advent of the Trumpster, seems to be some bad faith strategy to avoid doing that and go after easy and what should be low priority pickings.
The one conclusion I made after reading the stuff is that the people yelling ‘Just enforce the law’ are bigots and full of BS.
jl
Valdy shold take some breaks from white hot rage for some sunny joyful cynicism. As a tonic. Good for the nerves.
Valdivia
@jl: I try, not always successful! :)
Origuy
I get Doug J’s reference in the title, but I thought of a different song that might be more fitting. There’s a Celtic tune called Sleepy Maggie in Scottish music; Drowsy Maggie in Ireland. Here’s Ashley MacIsaac’s version of it. It’s a little slower than I’m used to hearing as a dance tune; then it’s played so fast the dancers have to work to keep up.
Tom Levenson
@tobie: been there, been doing that.
Villago Delenda Est
Haberman is a worthless collaborator hack.
Major Major Major Major
Here’s a picture I like I took from the lower east side.
Frankensteinbeck
I consider it unlikely (far from impossible, but unlikely) that Trump will ever veto anything during his administration. The man’s cowardice is staggering. It’s almost beyond belief. Bitching from the safety of his 3am toilet tweet he can do, but face down Ryan and McConnell in an open confrontation? He’ll just sign it and put on a statement about… the size of his inauguration crowd, probably.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Haberman needs to lose her job and be rendered unemployable in the journalism industry. It won’t happen but I’m sick and tried of idiots like her spouting such drivel on a national platform like the NYT. She’s just a gossip columnist, not a real political reporter.
jl
@Frankensteinbeck: Trump has been on both sides of the issue, at least as far as how to handle the ‘good’ undocumenteds. It was one of his tricks to bring in some knuckleneads along with the racists. i don’t think there is any big principle or promise he cares about. For every ‘kick ’em out’ rage show he has put on at rallies, there has been a promise of tough but humane policy on ‘good’ undocumented people at other rallies. I have no clue whether the moral monstrosity and practical disaster going after the DACA kids has gotten through his thick head, but he will have to confront people throwing his own words back in his face on it.
I think the bigger problem with the six month delay gambit is that there are cynical manipulators and true monstrous racists in GOP who do have a stake in acting stupidly and monstrously. So, what is the bet Trump or the Trumpsters have a plan to handle that?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
If DACA is ended in 6 months, is there anything anybody can do to stop ICE from rounding people up?
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Not that I’m aware of. There will be a massive clusterfuck of a bottleneck if the people decide to contest their deportations, though.
ceece
adu@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
adult adoptions?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
That’s an interesting thought. People could tie up the legal system for years. In 6 months, it will be early 2018. Trump is defeated in 2020 and the new pres reinstates the program.
Could Dreamers also be hidden from ICE ala Jews during WW2?
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I don’t know that it’s necessary to go full Godwin on this one.
And I have no idea. Probably.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Sorry, didn’t mean to. Was the first example I could think of.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Valdivia: Hi there!
Chet Murthy
@Major Major Major Major:
B.S. This is fluffing, plain and simple. Colbert would say they’re holding Trump’s ballsack for him. It’s got nothing to do with objectivity, and nothing to do with journalism. And nothing to do with “facts”. If it were about “facts”, the story would be simple: Man calls mexicans rapists, runs on dehumanizing them, is elected, and voila! he delivers.
jl
@Chet Murthy: Anyone keeping a score card on these folks’ success as Trump whisperers?
Me, I wouldn’t be able to assert with a straight face that Trump wants or believes or knows anything from one day to next wrt to actual policies and the people they affect.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
At this point Concentration camps by ICE would not surprise me anymore.
Its not exactly too many steps removed from what they’re already doing with the people they arrest now.
Chet Murthy
@TenguPhule: After what I’ve read about what happens to the deported (kidnappings for ransom, etc), I’m not so sure that “Full Godwin” is unwarranted. Esp. with hundreds of thousands of innocent people at stake.
fuckwit
Why do we even care what these morons write? Does it even matter.
Lies, all damn lies. All of it. FTFNYT.
If I want actual news, I’ll get it from WaPo and various internet sources.
TriassicSands
Because nothing Trump says means anything. His words are utterly empty. Look at his rhetoric about the “Wall.” He’s barely pretending that the Mexicans are going to pay for the wall. The recording of his phone conversation with the Mexican president, Enrique Peña Nieto, made it clear he doesn’t expect Mexico to pay, he just doesn’t want Nieto to say so publicly. To Trump, if Nieto doesn’t say publicly that Mexico won’t pay for the wall, that is equivalent to Mexico paying for the wall — at some unspecified time and using some unspecified mechanism. And that’s good enough for his base.
I have no idea what Trump will do — on any issue. And I doubt that he does either.
TriassicSands
I’m struck by how much BJ commenters sound like Trump when discussing the NYT.
TenguPhule
@TriassicSands:
Objection!
Trump wants them to fluff him.
We just want to hang all the bad apples there and get a fucking newspaper back.
jl
I can’t even do a good Trump impersonation anymore. Too many forbidden spam words and phrases, I think.
Trumpisms have gone the way of s H * * p L * s?
Amir Khalid
@Major Major Major Major:
@Chet Murthy:
Even the Joe Friday approach to journalism requires the reporter to uncover and report all the facts, which in this story are pretty damning. The likes of Haberman and Smith are guilty of selective reporting: picking some facts and leaving others out, so that the story doesn’t endanger their continued access to those in power.
Brachiator
@TriassicSands:
@TenguPhule:
Of course, the NYT never belonged to you. And a lot of the moaning here is false nostalgia over a paper whose relationship to establishment power has always been complex.
But even more important, the NYT, like all newspapers, is dying. It will be dead and gone long before the bashing finally stops.
sm*t cl*de
What would be a better signal for ‘not actually wanting to end DACA’ would be not ending DACA.
sm*t cl*de
“The Tsar does not want to persecute the Jews but the Cossacks are forcing him into it.”
Amir Khalid
@sm*t cl*de:
Then again, should “signals” from Trump really be treated as meaningful? What he says today, he’ll forget come tomorrow. He is constant only in wanting to do the opposite of whatever Obama did. When he “signals” otherwise, wait one day and see what happens.
rikyrah
@jl:
They have no problem with deporting non -criminals. That’s all they seem to be doing.??
zhena gogolia
I know somebody’s already done this, but the morning sun when it’s in your face really shows your age.
Russ
@Holden Pattern: Those 800k DACA’s will join democrats in calling for a solution. Republicans are now put in the corner by their own president with no easy politically viable cure.
Steeplejack (phone)
@zhena gogolia:
It’s not late September, but shouldn’t you really be getting back to school?
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
Tomorrow? Hell, he’ll forget it in 10 minutes.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack (phone):
Unfortunately, I am — we start classes today.
Kay
She’s the “Trump Whisperer”- her job is to explain how Donald Trump is a complex individual who is misunderstood.
The NYTimes is terrible. Their political coverage is objectively horrible. The worst part is all the other outlets follow them. NPR’s political coverage is also terrible but they have the saving grace in that they follow the NYTimes, so they’re not directly responsible.
We need better elites. We have a bigger problem than Trump voters. Our elites are bad at their jobs. These “institutions”
everyone is working so hard to “protect” don’t really deserve protecting. They failed and they continue to fail. The one substantive story we’re going to get out of Texas is the 7 AP reporters who went out on a boat to look at Superfund sites? That’s good work but that’s it? 7 people out of, what? 10,000?
I don’t have any idea what’s going on in Texas and neither does anyone else who isn’t there. All I hear is what this means for Donald Trump.
hueyplong
This smells like a setup for a story the them of which will be, “If only Ivanka had been around over the weekend to appeal to his better instincts.”
As if he had any.
There isn’t anything complex about any of this.
Kay
Boy that Kris Kobach is a nasty piece of work. He must fit right in. I listened to an interview with him yesterday on DACA and he blurted out that some of them are likely criminals. This isn’t some clown who came out of Breitbart. He’s the lead adviser on immigration for Donald Trump and he’s a nasty, mean-spirited bigot who behaves like some kind of caricature of “weasel lawyer”
This is the best we can do? These are the people who are coming out of our elite universities? We have a bigger problem than Trump voters.
Steeplejack (phone)
@zhena gogolia:
Figured as much.
karensky
@Shalimar: So true
bemused
@Kay:
All Republicans who get into power positions are nasty, venal and mean-spirited. Also chickenshit even if the rare ones have a few qualms. They care more about keeping power/money and saving their own hides from their rabid voters. Saying there are likely criminals among the people they want to obliterate all rights from is fabricated craven justification to do the most harm they can get away with. If they were truthful about “criminals” they’d purge their own team but problem is that majority of Republican legislators would have to go.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack (phone):
And the morning sun is really showing my age, believe me.
cwmoss
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Just like fucking MoDo!
J R in WV
@Kay:
Yes, he is! And I suspect him of criminally distorting voting in his state and in the nation by illegally restricting the votes of many people legitimately registered and allowed to vote.
He should be put on a small Navy warship and never allowed shore leave again, ever. Passed from ship to ship, never to even see America on the horizon, ever again.