Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Consistently wrong since 2002

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Unreliable Narrator Legislator

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Unreliable Narrator Legislator

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At this precise moment, Trump has given the Democrats a major win by agreeing to a three-month government funding bill. Let us enjoy the feeling of triumph while it lasts.

Per Politico:

Donald Trump, who casts himself as a master negotiator, took the first offer Democrats put on the table.

Republicans left the Oval Office Wednesday stunned. Trump had quickly sided with Democrats on a short-term debt ceiling increase, even overruling his own Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to concur with “Chuck and Nancy,” as he later called them on Air Force One.

But Trump defied more than his top aides. He turned on Republican leaders in Congress when he caved to Democrats’ demands to raise the debt limit and fund the government for three months, setting up a brutal year-end fiscal cliff. The move shocked everyone, as top White House officials and GOP leaders had been gearing up to raise the debt ceiling through the 2018 midterm election, looking to pass legislation as soon as Friday.

But even after Mnuchin, Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell pushed back on the Democratic demands in the meeting, Trump agreed to the three-month deal that will also head off the possibility of a government shutdown until mid-December.

During the meeting, Ryan sharply criticized the Democratic proposal, a source familiar with the exchange said. But Schumer reminded him that Ryan had supported short-term increases in the past intended to help create bipartisan deals in 2013…

Democratic leaders said Wednesday morning that they’d offer Trump their votes for a package delivering aid to victims of Hurricane Harvey and raising the debt ceiling only until mid-December. GOP leaders, eager to avoid multiple contentious votes on the debt ceiling, want to raise the debt ceiling through late 2018…

In other words, the Repubs wanted to put off the nasty ox-goring, nut-cutting fight until after the midterm elections, because such elections seldom favor the party in charge, especially when the Oval Office Occupant at the head of that party is as divisive and unpopular as Lord Smallgloves. Donald Trump may not know much, but he knows very well that the professional Republicans do not love and/or respect him nearly as much as he is convinced they should…


Reader Interactions

188Comments

  3. 3.

    hellslittlestangel

    Yeah, a glorious victory, because who ever heard of The Orange Better One reneging on a deal?

  4. 4.

    efgoldman

    Normal people aren’t paying attention to this

    A LOT of truth in this.

    ETA: Proving once again, if proof were needed, that Granny Starver and Yertle McTurtle are not quite the master politicians they’ve been made out to be – in fact, they’re not even competent legislators.

  6. 6.

    efgoldman

    @hellslittlestangel:

    because who ever heard of The Orange Better One reneging on a deal?

    He signs it, it he doesn’t sign it… either way the RWNJs and especially the kkkrazy kkkaukus, lose.

  8. 8.

    efgoldman

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yup, they’re in the driver’s seat.

    If Granny Starver and the kkkrazy kkkaukus want to adopt some of Mulvaney’s loopy cuts, they have to do it in an election year, when they’ll stay fresh in at least some voters’ minds.

  10. 10.

    TS

    There you go – poor little Mark Halperin is lost for words when his wonderful president did a deal with the democrats. My life will be complete when Halperin is no longer on the airwaves.

  12. 12.

    efgoldman

    @TS:

    poor little Mark Halperin is lost for words

    You could ignore him. I’ve managed successfully to do that since 2002 or so.

  16. 16.

    Mary G

    @efgoldman: Yes, I keep getting surprised at just how stupid they are. Trump wanted a deal he can brag about to his idiot fans. Since Yertle and ZEGS have been unable to deliver in seven months, he was low hanging fruit for the pros.

    Ryan is looking worse and worse physically as time goes along. He’s haggard, his skin is pasty and grey and those baby blue eyes are a bit sunken. Also his hair is cut badly and often looks like he’s been yanking it. This makes me so happy. Karma is a bitch. I have visions of both Obama and Boehner chortling.

  17. 17.

    efgoldman

    @hellslittlestangel:

    I like victories that aren’t Pyrrhic.

    So do I, but given that the Dems don’t hold a majority in either house, and the RWNJs could theoretically push whatever bill they wanted, I’ll take whatever victories we can get.

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    But the Villagers LOVE both of them!

    Which of course makes them the greatest legislative geniuses since John Quincy Adams and Daniel Webster.

    Or maybe not.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    Trump got rolled, which is unsurprising because he’s not too bright. His vaunted deal-making prowess is just so much marketing bullshit. He’s been repeatedly rolled like a passed-out frat boy in a cheap bordello, and it will keep happening. I’m all for it when the Democrats are taking the idiot for a ride, but it’s less advantageous for those of us who are U.S. citizens when more competent world leaders (i.e., virtually all of them) fleece the ninny, and they have, and they will.

  22. 22.

    Bruce K

    @hellslittlestangel: If Trump reneges on the deal, then it reflects badly on him, not Schumer or Pelosi – they’re the ones who acted like adults, they’re the ones who offered the sensible plan he agreed to, and if the agreement falls through, it’s all on Trump and the GOP.

    There’s a reason the GOP is afraid of Nancy Pelosi.

  23. 23.

    Luthe

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Especially right before Christmas. No matter how much a given voter hates “big gubermint” the idea of thousands of people getting furloughed right before the holidays will have some effect on their tiny mind.

  24. 24.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    I’ve got 99 problems,
    And a Ryan ain’t one.
    If ya got Ryan problems,
    I feel sorry for ya son.

    Nancy Pelosi

  25. 25.

    hellslittlestangel

    @efgoldman: I’m not saying this is a bad thing, it’s just not a great victory. Celebration or, worse, gloating (Dems played Trump like a fiddle!), is premature and unwise.

  29. 29.

    Cermet

    Could someone explain how republicans aren’t part of this deal? Without their votes, no bill can pass either the house or senate no matter what the orange fart does. That dolt45 will sign a clean bill to extend the debt ceiling and fund the Gov, as well as provide aid to hurricane victims still requires thugs to get on board. How is this not a republican effort as well?

  30. 30.

    Bruce K

    @hellslittlestangel: It’s a little thing, but sometimes you’ve got to take a bit of pleasure in small victories, if only to serve as a respite from the rage and despair over the other stuff that the bastards are doing. And it’s a relief to be able to read a Charlie Pierce column (for example) and laugh instead of cry with despair.

  37. 37.

    Boudica

    @Cermet: That’s my question. Plus you have some Dems who are upset that Schumer and Pelosi did this without using the deal as leverage for DACA…are those Dems gonna vote for this deal?

  40. 40.

    Cermet

    @Boudica: Yes, tie DACA and cause the Gov to deflaut – not gonna happen because the bankers will scream at the dems. No, the dems will vote for a clean debt ceiling bill (as they generally do), they get the Gov funds needed for disaster operation and all agency operation for three more months and Harvey aid; that they now have time to maneuver for three months is a nice bit of icing on the cake. How can they not all vote for this? The DDACA is too good an opportunity for the mid terms not to allow it to drag on for a while. Still, some republicans in the house MUST also agree to this and crying ryan the snake eye monster has to either get the majority on board to meet the pedophile rule or else, break that hideous rule created by that pedophile.

  41. 41.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @satby: The Village hates it when their heroes get pantsed, and that’s what Schumer and Nancy Smash did to Paulie and Yertle.

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    @rk:

    If only Nancy and Chuck could persuade him to drink bleach.

    Wrong focus. Lying Littledick being out of office would likely not change the underlying dynamic, i.e., that too many Foxbots vote.

    What you want is for Obama and Hitlary to give a prime-time where they say that drinking anti-freeze (or bleach or whatever) is DANGEROUS and will hurt you!

    You know that “end of the Republican Party” we keep hearing about, but never seems to get here? THAT is what will bring it about, Russia or no Russia. [Although Kobach and von Spakovsky, those evil fucks, would do their damnedest to prevent it.]

    ETA: Ineffectually shakes fist at Ozark.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    The funniest part is it’s now considered Republican orthodoxy to have a big, stupid, expensive hissy fit over funding the government.

    That’s required in the Republican Party. You have to shut down the government every year. It wastes millions and millions of dollars but not only do they not care- they MUST do it.

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Yeah, I quoted a piece in The Atlantic yesterday that was shameless about that.

    Yeah, that thing you posted was pretty awesome in its bullshittery. Next they’ll be talking about the Rethug beer blast (if they manage to kill ACA) being “somber.” I guess if the Rethugs don’t wear party hats and throw confetti, then it’s all good.

    I generally like The Atlantic, especially because of Fallows, but that thing yesterday was appalling.

  47. 47.

    Bobby Thomson

    Booman thinks McConnell and Ryan were in on it and did a little kabuki so that the Freedom Caucus wouldn’t notice their hands on the knife.

  48. 48.

    Barbara

    @Betty Cracker: Saying that Trump got rolled assumes he actually cared about the underlying issues to begin with. I think, most likely, he cares about not screwing up emergency relief funding so that he doesn’t repeat Bush’s loss of stature over a hurricane, and that so dwarfs whatever other priorities the Republican Party has been pushing — e.g., making political use of the debt ceiling — he doesn’t even think of it as selling out.

  52. 52.

    Lurking Canadian

    I confess to not understanding this at all. Why is it a Democratic priority to raise the debt ceiling for such a short time? Doesn’t that just mean they’ll have to do this again in December?

    How do we know Ryan and/or McConnell will even bring this deal to a floor vote? Neither of those guys is known as a gracious loser, and if they’ve been pantsed on live TV, why would they participate?

  53. 53.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Barbara: yeah, this ain’t no pivot. This is FEMA running out of money by the end of the week with the largest natural catastrophe in over a hundred years set to hit the Eastern seaboard. Trump’s an idiot, but he heard enough “Obama’s Katrina” stories to get the message.

  59. 59.

    debbie

    @satby:

    “Fake news” has infected the entire world. Aung San Suu Kyi, Nobel Peace Prize winner for Chrissake, is using it to dispute reports of Burma’s violence against the Rohingya.

  60. 60.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Lurking Canadian:

    I confess to not understanding this at all. Why is it a Democratic priority to raise the debt ceiling for such a short time? Doesn’t that just mean they’ll have to do this again in December?

    Closer to the election, also keeps the government running during Hurricane season, also their leverage should only get better and Trump will only get weaker.

    How do we know Ryan and/or McConnell will even bring this deal to a floor vote? Neither of those guys is known as a gracious loser, and if they’ve been pantsed on live TV, why would they participate?

    This lends credence to the “they were in on the scam” theory. They’re evil and stupid, but there are too many must-pass things coming to a head at once and they really do need to curb their dogs.

  61. 61.

    Betty Cracker

    @Barbara: Maybe, but he still got taken, and most likely because he was focused on protecting the brand. It’s like he was negotiating for a car, and he really, really, really wanted a sun roof but would also obviously be better off if he got leather seats, an upgraded media package, an extended warranty, etc., for the same price. But as soon as the salesman said “sun roof,” Trump blurted out “I’ll take it!” without even bargaining for the other things. Dumb.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    Trump has a spine of wet toilet paper. I half-expect that sufficiently fierce blowback from Congressional Republicans, or a word in his ear from the wrong person, could make him repudiate any agreement with Democrats. I hope Schumer and Pelosi have factored this into their calculation.

  64. 64.

    Bobby Thomson

    @OzarkHillbilly: yes – though they could just be in the box of “do we openly go against the leader of the party who our base loves, or do we do what our base keeps demanding every year?” Putting them into that box without anticipating the consequences seems like something a Democratic mole would do, which is in keeping with Trump’s Razor (/JMM) that the most stupid and self-destructive explanation is always the correct one.

    So, solid reasons for thinking either that McConnell and Ryan helped plan the “sellout” or that Trump caught them flatfooted.

  65. 65.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Bobby Thomson: The pile up of must-pass things is staggering. They’re like students who didn’t start on the terms papers for all their classes until the night before they were all due. I know there’s always some pile up, but this time I’m guessing they spent so much time screwing around with Trump Care that things got out of hand. Which is ironic because they didn’t really spend much time at all creating the Trump Care legislation. Where did their time go?

    ETA: Maybe they need to spend more days in session. As I recall, when the Rs came into power, they reduced DC working days.

  69. 69.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Bobby Thomson: I really don’t know what their motivations are, but if it goes thru, it’s on them. The funny thing is Nancy and Chuck will get the credit.

  70. 70.

    mai naem mobile

    I don’t understand the deal but I believe the Dems want along because it supposedly gives them a seat at the table during tax reform negotiations because their votes will be needed while the tax reform package is being worked out in Dec. because of the Freedumb caucus.I read somewhere that of course Yertle is talking about blowing up the filibuster totally to get the tax package passed.

  71. 71.

    Cermet

    @Lurking Canadian: As I understand it from what the dem leadership has said – its for them to have leverage for pushing the DACA through come December (even tRump appears, for now, to want that deal with them,too); waiting six more months means time is up for the dreamers and they don’t want to wait for that. The threat of default works two ways …

  72. 72.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I see Trump announced the list of places where he’s sending his million dollar donation. Reporters are already following up to see if the checks have come and cleared. I hope they’re also noting the source of the money. Is it, frex, Trump’s re-election campaign fund?

  73. 73.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: McCain has already said that he will vote for Graham’s ridiculous repeal bill which would phase out the ACA by 2027. The resistance continues.

  74. 74.

    bystander

    @Baud:

    @bystander: The Crackers’ sexytime habits are no business of ours.

    Speak for yourself unless that was the Royal We.

  75. 75.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Cermet: There probably won’t be time to do tax reform, DACA, and the kicked can in December, which also is part of the strategy. But DACA was in an even more precarious position now. The downside is this potentially frees up more time to screw around with TrumpDon’tCare.

  76. 76.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    WaPo headline on the front page this am: Trump Reaches Across Aisle. Trump is so short sighted that added to the spite factor he wanted a quick and easy win for which he would be praised as a “statesman.” Much good will this do him in the long run.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    Harwood’s tweet is the most relevant and insightful one: this is still the same GOP that doesn’t know how to, and doesn’t want to, govern. They just want to yank liberals’ chain at every opportunity, country be damned.

    Also, too, Kay at #45

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @mai naem mobile:

    I feel comfortable with Pelosi and Schumer as tacticians and negotiators, though. There isn’t anyone on either side who is better at it and Trump is notably, unusually bad at it. They’re just way more experienced than Donald Trump and experience matters. The fundamentals favor those two. They’re in a nice position and they’re good at this.

    Trump is an amazing liar, I must say. I saw the prototypes of his “wall”. It’s a fence. I get it, I really do, his base wants a wall so he sells a wall but Jesus. I just think about hiring someone to build “a wall” and getting “a fence”. He has absolute contempt for people.

  81. 81.

    Quinerly

    @satby:
    Good morning! Just saw your Book Faces request. Cool. Hope you can make it to NM and O Felix’s area when I’m out there in February. Have a great day.

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    From the Charlie Pierce article:

    How doth he screw them? Let me count the ways.

    First: It’s the right thing to do. At this waterlogged moment, with one city drowned and another state in the meteorological crosshairs, this is no time for more idiocy about the debt ceiling.

    Second: He cut the legs out from under McConnell and Ryan while, at the same, sticking them with a Hobson’s choice of either going along with this altogether sensible temporary fix or getting rolled by the flying monkeys in their own caucus. And vulnerable Republicans are in an even tighter vise re: the 2018 midterms. If I had a handlebar mustache, I’d twirl it.

    Third: Speaking of the latter, the frenzy among the Freedom Caucus types is going to be a sight to see.

    And that’s just what’s going to happen today. The next 12 legislative days are going to lack only the Hendersons and a waltzing horse to be a proper circus.

    Also, and not for nothing, but I hope Democratic congresscritters like Tim Ryan and Seth Moulton—as well as the more enthusiastic of the YouTube Left—can mellow out about Pelosi for a while. There was a reason why conservative media outlets were stoking the rebellion against her in the wake of last November’s election. Put simply, she’s still light-years ahead of anyone the Republicans have in the Congress and, as is now plain, she can play the president* like a tin fiddle as well. (Yes, Chuck Schumer gets equal props here, too.) She rolled into his home field and helped kick some serious ass around the block.

    Chuck and Nancy.

    And Donald.

    It is not seemly in a man my age to giggle this much

    My only question is, since I’ve never heard the phrase before, what does “the YouTube Left” mean? BernieBros?

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    A lot of the Trump voters here seemed to be “sporadic” though- people who came out FOR Trump. They aren’t ideological conservatives- in fact, they’re often wholly dependent on Democratic initiatives. We saw it with health care. They couldn’t repeal Obamacare- too many of their voters benefit from it. Trump voters won’t flee if Trump adopts Democratic economic policies. They love Democratic policies. The risk for Democrats won’t be economic policy- the risk will be when Trump launches one of his racist agenda items and a Democrat is standing next to him.

  86. 86.

    hueyplong

    @SFAW: “Although Kobach and von Spakovsky, those evil fucks, would do their damnedest to prevent it.”

    But, under your scenario, they almost certainly would have consumed large quantities of bleach. Are you saying they would have survived the experience?

  87. 87.

    Summer

    I have to say, my happiness over this is stuck on “It’s the right thing to do.” I feel like calling the White House and thanking Trump. It’s just such a relief to have a good decision made that will actually give Dems leverage to make government work.

  89. 89.

    Kay

    Bannon tells @charlierose that there is no room in US politics or society for neo-nazis, neo-confederates & the Klan

    We give them too much power when they insist they don’t care how they’re viewed. They care a lot how they;re viewed. People who were all belligerent “fuck you, Libtards!” wouldn’t do all this defending. This man runs a blatantly racist site and yet he goes out and insists he’s not doing that. He does that for a reason. He thinks there’s RISK in being perceived as racist, that it HARMS him.

    Don’t give them the power of saying they somehow enjoy being fringe. They don’t. They want to be accepted. Desperately.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Bannon tells @charlierose that there is no room in US politics or society for neo-nazis, neo-confederates & the Klan

    The real reason he left the White House.

  91. 91.

    Weaselone

    I think it’s unfair and a bit foolish to characterize this deal as somehow rolling Trump. The deal is largely all upside for both him and the Democrats, it just just sucks for the Republican Party. Trump’s priorities and interests are not the same as the Party’s.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    So funny, because I think Trump is just mad that Republicans are making his Presidency look like shit because he gets nothing done. It’s just a petty grudge match- his (daily) asshole vindictiveness and selfishness- the qualities they admire and voted for.

  93. 93.

    Cermet

    In the post, they mentioned that tRump signaled that he too wants a deal on the dreamers act and will sign what comes through. Apparently, he realized:
    1) failure to fund the government into December means he looks like a incompetent during hurricane season (even he knows more are coming.
    2)Ditto on the debt ceiling
    3)He knows the dreamers have only six months and a deal extending the ceiling/funding to then would likely result in no deal in time. Resulting in his base popular canceling of the dreamers act making him look like the monster he is. So, giving the dems leverage by december allows something to be worked out in time preventing him from facing the consequences of his actions. Wi/win for him and why should he give two $hits to the thugs in congress as long as he looks like a winner. Here, he needs the dems and is agreeing with them for those reasons – self interest.

  94. 94.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @efgoldman: Yes, but Trmp’s fan boi base who thinks this is just a reality TV show is.

    So will Trump’s rating take another dive?

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    Intriguing…an NYT article today (about how betrayed Trumpov’s supporters are feeling by his capitulation to ‘Chuck and Nancy’) has a picture of Bannon’s Capitol Hill townhouse, with the caption noting that Bannon runs Breitfart out of there…

    …anyone have a couple dozen eggs they aren’t using?

  96. 96.

    Kay

    The only way they’ll get a deal on Dreamers is if it’s really narrow though. Bush’s immigration deal fell thru for 2 reasons- Kennedy couldn’t broker a deal with liberal Democrats and Republicans decided they would run on racism that cycle. Trump hasn’t changed that dynamic. He’s made it worse.

  97. 97.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: I think the risk is on Trump at that point, not the Dem…the more Trump’s seen as working with Dems (who represent ‘those people’), the more disaffected his base will get. If he says/does something racist, I’m pretty sure the Dem would call him on it or walk out right then and there. But we’ll see…

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    I’m fine with those two. There isn’t anyone better at what they do and there’s a reason for that- it’s hard. NOT everyone can do it. In fact, very few people can do it well. Paul Ryan can’t do it, for example, and he was promoted as really smart for years, based on absolutely no real accomplishments. They got rid of Boehner. He would be perfect for this set of circumstances.

  100. 100.

    GregB

    Trump rolled the tea-bag caucus and the GOP leadership with an assist from the Democrats.

    It is more in line with Trump being an agent of chaos and perpetual deception.

    it is still great to see McConnell and Ryan fuming and sputtering.

    The curtain on their leadership is closing fast. Trump wants to install someone who is a hand picked cipher.

    Watch your back GOP-ers, Donnie Two-scoops is in a rat-fucking mood.

    In other news, the rape prone opossum holed up in the Ecuadoran embassy is alleging President Obama colluded with Seth Rogan to overthrow Kim Jong Un.

    Whom the Gods will destroy, they first drive mad.

  101. 101.

    germy

    Matt Fuller‏Verified account
    @MEPFuller

    I’m relatively confident Democrats couldn’t have gotten a clean debt ceiling raise right now if Hillary Clinton were President.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @GregB:

    In other news, the rape prone opossum holed up in the Ecuadoran embassy is alleging President Obama colluded with Seth Rogan to overthrow Kim Jong Un.

    There really needs to be a reckoning on that guy. The fact is he was promoted as some hero of transparency and he’s completely fucking opaque and captured with a huge agenda. The small portion of the Internet Left that bought his bullshit needs to own up to this- they were duped. He’s not a “liberal”- not in ANY sense.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    I’m reading that Democrats “dread” Clinton’s book tour. “Democrats” could fix that. Change the subject. Promote something. Give Democrats something to fight about other than the 2016 election. This passivity drives me fucking crazy. They’re just destined to re-run the 2016 election forever! Nothing whatever they can do about that! If Hillary Clinton is on a book tour well, that’s all we can talk about! Be a political Party. Organize people. Promote your agenda.

  105. 105.

    hueyplong

    It might not matter whether the GOP gets through this somehow and ends up with funding for a longer period than 3 months.

    It’s possible that the most important thing to come out of this “Chuck and Nancy” episode is for Congressional Republicans to reach the conclusion that Trump can blow up in their faces at any time, for any reason, and is literally impossible to control. It should be clear to them now that he can’t be trusted on any issue, however large or small, due to his pure pursuit of momentary personal glory, completely divorced from any comprehension of the context in which he’s acting. A literal loose cannon.

    Once they realize that a photo-op at a Post Office opening can turn into a nightmare for them, they’ll become more receptive to whatever Mueller is doing. They’ll think they have to ice him for what they believe to be the good of the party, and to keep their phony-baloney jobs. The problem is, turning on Trump will create the kind of civil war within the GOP that we can only dream of.

  108. 108.

    GregB

    @Kay:

    He’s a libertarian leaning fascist who threw his lot in with Putin to assist in crippling western style liberal democracy.

    He is loathsome and I am still stunned at that so many on the far left seem to think he’s a good faith actor.

    I do hope for his reckoning.

  109. 109.

    Gelfling 545

    Nonsense. This was a brilliant, bipartisan move by Trump. The outcome of his tremendous negotiating skills.*
    *We need to keep telling him this to keep him cooperating. Shhh.

  110. 110.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: You and I were both Tom Perez fans — any buyer’s remorse? I have it. There’s still time to turn things around, but I haven’t been impressed so far, to be honest.

  111. 111.

    Quinerly

    Does anybody else think that Trump has been really subdued lately? Looking for the right words to describe…in a fog, haze? And the little tidbit about Ivanka checking in on him yesterday. Granted, I haven’t been as tuned in as much in the last few days, but seems to me something is up with him. Something different.

  114. 114.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I keep looking for policy or anything to come out of the Democratic Party. Disappointed so far.

    I know it’s early (well, for everyone but Trumpov, anyway) to be campaigning, and it’s kind of a weird political environment for Ds…but you’re right, someone’s going to have to step up and do more than just tweet their disapproval of the GOP. I get that politicians want to avoid taking flak as long as possible, and that in the past no one would want to start running for president 3 1/2 years out, but times are different. Someone needs to ramp up, get high-profile, speak out, and put out that positive agenda.

  115. 115.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Some BJ commenters think we should which I don’t quite understand.

    First – good morning, all! We still have haze from the Montana fires, but the sun is coming up and the dogs are enjoying their postprandial nap.

    The only people I know who want to get rid of Nancy and Chuck (besides the Repubs, that is) are the True Progressives. I find it curious how often the interests of those two groups align.

    ETA: Also too, what Sir Pierce said in Jeffro’s post at #84.

  116. 116.

    misterpuff

    “Playing Trump like a fiddle” reminds me of Mad Men “The Gold Violin” Ken’s story of a solid gold violin that looks beautiful but you can’t play a note on it. That’s Trump in a nutshell.
    Gold-plated Box of Rocks.

  117. 117.

    But her emails!!!

    @Jeffro:

    I know it’s early (well, for everyone but Trumpov, anyway) to be campaigning, and it’s kind of a weird political environment for Ds…but you’re right, someone’s going to have to step up and do more than just tweet their disapproval of the GOP. I get that politicians want to avoid taking flak as long as possible, and that in the past no one would want to start running for president 3 1/2 years out, but times are different. Someone needs to ramp up, get high-profile, speak out, and put out that positive agenda.

    This person who steps up is going to need money for that. They won’t be Trump or a Republican, so the media isn’t going to give them any significant air time unless they pay for it and the DNC/DCCC can’t exactly be seen picking and funding a presumptive presidential candidate. There are plenty of Democrats who would jump at any opportunity to smash Trump and lay out an alternate vision, they just aren’t getting the press.

  118. 118.

    Amir Khalid

    @GregB:
    The RawStory account of the Obama/Sony Pictures/Seth Rogan plot against North Korea is weird. It’s hard to believe Obama would even consider such a plan. A lowbrow comedy movie in the vein of Team America, full of racist humour, doesn’t sound like propaganda that North Korean people would take seriously. Its likely effect would have been insignificant at best.

  119. 119.

    RobertDSC-iPhone 6

    @Jeffro:

    Hillary ran on poiicy. Was great at it. She got beat. (Incidentally, that was something I feel Bernie was awful at: policy. He couldn’t articulate effective policy to save his life.)

    I think what y’all are looking for is a rallying point. Someone to throw verbal bombs who has credibility and people can get behind.

  120. 120.

    GregB

    @Amir Khalid:

    I used to read RawStory more frequently but I tend to dislike their click baity sensationalist headlines.

    I haven’t looked into this story at all other than to laugh out loud on how funny it seems on the surface.

    But who the fuck knows anything about anything anymore. We are now at a point where Dennis Rodman may end up saving the world with his own brand of bro-diplomacy.

  121. 121.

    d58826

    On Twitter just now Paul Ryan said that Der Fuhrer cut a deal with the D’s to create a ‘bi-partisan’ moment during hurricane recovery.

    That ios enough hot air to fuel a CAT 7 hurricane

  122. 122.

    The Moar You Know

    Plus you have some Dems who are upset that Schumer and Pelosi did this without using the deal as leverage for DACA…are those Dems gonna vote for this deal?

    @Boudica: You’ve got to be joking. We’re the minority party. We have no leverage whatsoever.

    You take this deal as presented because it keeps the debt ceiling and government funding on the table as a problem for the GOP. They were going to pass a far more – hate to say it but it’s true – responsible bill. We weren’t even going to get that much; it’s simply the need for Donnie Two Scoops to fuck over his own party in retaliation for not loving him enough that allowed this opportunity to fall into our laps. You take that deal.

  123. 123.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @But her emails!!!:

    There are plenty of Democrats who would jump at any opportunity to smash Trump and lay out an alternate vision, they just aren’t getting the press.

    I mean did the press ever cover Obama’s speeches or policies or give him any credit for well, anything? We have a rotating tag line about everything being Obama’s Katrina for a reason. Looking for a Democrat to get positive press coverage is a fool’s errand – even now, the press seems intent on interviewing every Trump voter in America, while ignoring every single voter who voted for the popular vote winner, who also seems to have been robbed of the EC by Russian active measures aligned with Facebook, wikileaks, both the Sanders and Trump campaigns, and voter suppression efforts in a few key states. The press is the Democrat’s enemy. The Dem leader will emerge, and it won’t be a crusty old loser who won’t join the party and who, along with his wife, is under an active open FBI investigation. The highest profile Dems on twitter, actively participating in the Resistance, are Chris Murphy of CT, Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Ted Lieu. Also Joe Kennedy, and in my opinion, the sleeper is Mitch Landrieu, who I would actively campaign for.

  124. 124.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Jeffro: When has a politician run on a “positive agenda,” which I take to mean “here’s stuff I/we will do,” and won? I can think of many more cases of politicians running and winning on “holy shit those other guys SUCK,” or “voting for me will make you feel good.”

  126. 126.

    germy

    @Amir Khalid: RawStory seems to have gotten it from alternet. The slim premise (Rogen saying they had some guys as consultants who he suspected were in the CIA) just shows how little they know about moviemaking. If I wrote a script that involved military, aircraft, soldiers etc., of course the studio would use consultants. All that hardware requires professionals, unless it’s 100% CGI or an animated cartoon.

    Also, later in the article we see Rogen throw a tantrum because Sony wants to cut his face melting finale.

    I suspect it’s a story designed to cast suspicion on the Deep State™. In case anything bad happens to, I don’t know, maybe herr drumpf.

  127. 127.

    Jeffro

    @But her emails!!!:

    This person who steps up is going to need money for that…There are plenty of Democrats who would jump at any opportunity to smash Trump and lay out an alternate vision, they just aren’t getting the press.

    On the money part: I dunno…traditionally, with TV buys or something like that, sure. But It sure seems like folks are getting better at making very small buys and finding ways to get those ads forwarded/retweeted on social media.

    On the press part: Other than the usual press releases and tweets, I’m not sure what (if anything) high-level Ds are doing to try and break out. I don’t watch much TV so I have no idea if Gillibrand or Harris are hitting the daytime talk shows, or if anyone is getting ‘outside the box’ with appearances in their state/around the country.

    It would seem to be a pretty light lift for a sitting D senator or governor to buy some airtime (or heck, show up someplace interesting on short notice) and give a short speech with this kind of outline:
    – Dems, we have been fighting and #resisting but the hard work of reaching out to everyone, registering new voters, and then making sure all voters can vote has to start NOW. Like, yesterday. (then list all the ways Rs are trying to take away the franchise and manipulate elections)
    – Dems, we can ‘walk and chew’ gum here…we will always be the party of equal rights and reproductive freedom…we should also always remind people which party represents America’s working families (instead of the rich, the rich, everything for the rich)
    – Dems, we need to get past ‘Hillary vs. Bernie’…they’ve both had their opportunity to run and serve, we thank them, and now it’s time for a new generation to step up and lead. (that alone would take up three news cycles :) )
    – and finally, if we’re ever going to get past the horror show that is Trumpov and a GOP Congress, we Dems have to remember that we’ll always have some minor differences, but they pale in comparison to the bleak choices offered by Republicans. Let’s make sure we stand together and make sure all Americans know they have a much better choice.

    You know, something like that =)

  128. 128.

    FlipYrWhig

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: IMHO the press did give Obama credit for making people feel inspired, purposeful, etc. IOW he was praised for tone and symbolism. I don’t recall any of the positive press for Obama being about how he had fulfilled a promise to do X.

  129. 129.

    Jeffro

    @RobertDSC-iPhone 6:

    I think what y’all are looking for is a rallying point. Someone to throw verbal bombs who has credibility and people can get behind.

    Yup. Hence the ‘ramp up, get high-profile, and speak out’ part ;)

  132. 132.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I keep looking for policy or anything to come out of the Democratic Party. Disappointed so far.

    Me too, so I’ve adopted a local focus, where we can have more influence. I’m just crossing my fingers that the county party can hold together – it appears the True Progressives are trying to fill the vacuum left by the chair’s sudden death. We really have a chance to make a difference if we continue working together towards our (mostly) common goals.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    @FlipYrWhig: I’m remembering a guy who ran pretty positive campaigns back in 2008 and 2012… And there was a guy who did say the other guy sucks, but he said it with a smile and a quick pivot to his positive agenda, back in 1992 and 1996 ;)

  134. 134.

    Spanky

    @Betty Cracker: Would rather have Ellison in the House, and Perez was more or less a blank page to me. The fact that the choice came down to those two was the point I became disappointed. The follow through is just my fears being realized.

    Yeah, I know. I’m not Kay.

  135. 135.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I don’t remember anything about that – I remember him being responsible for every black person who said or did something controversial, for not “solving” racism, and for not having enough coffee with GOP leadership and working across the aisle to get more bipartisan-y. I also remember the press’s lack of outrage over denying him the Garland pick.

  136. 136.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer: Right…and whomever makes that statement of values well will likely be considered a strong contender for the presidency. Doesn’t mean it can’t also unify the party and its message.

  137. 137.

    The Moar You Know

    He knows the dreamers have only six months and a deal extending the ceiling/funding to then would likely result in no deal in time. Resulting in his base popular canceling of the dreamers act making him look like the monster he is. So, giving the dems leverage by december allows something to be worked out in time preventing him from facing the consequences of his actions. Wi/win for him and why should he give two $hits to the thugs in congress as long as he looks like a winner. Here, he needs the dems and is agreeing with them for those reasons – self interest.

    @Cermet: I had not thought of this but suspect you are correct. It makes sense.

  138. 138.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Quinerly:

    I’m disappointed in Perez. And I had been a big fan.

    Me too. I think he made a huge strategic mistake with his Bernie tour early on, and now…crickets, except for the incessant hysterical fundraising emails. Keith Ellison is coming to ABQ for a Dem fundraiser in a few weeks. I’m curious to hear what he has to say. This should be a great opportunity for Dems to define themselves (ourselves), but I don’t see anyone with the vision and communications savvy to do that yet.

  140. 140.

    Barbara

    @Betty Cracker: I’m not arguing with you, I just don’t think Trump cares about using the debt ceiling as a driver of policy or the electoral fate of other Republicans much if at all. Certainly, it’s also his way of showing that he holds Ryan and McConnell responsible for failing to give him a victory, and that when they fail to deliver he will just sell them out. People don’t do things like that over something they really care about.

  141. 141.

    raven

    @Betty Cracker: My people from Ft Meyers were on their way here until they got south of your town yesterday. They went 2 miles an Thur for 2 hours and decided to go back.

  143. 143.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Jeffro: “Positive” means too many different things here. There’s positive like feel-good and positive like substantive. I am a huge Obama fan but I have to say that the way he ran was far more feel-good than substantive. He governed with substance but ran on symbolism: by and large the symbolism of reconciliation, coming together, looking out for one another, and so forth. And as someone else was saying, Hillary Clinton ran on _a lot_ of substance, and still lost. Hence while I _like_ when politicians run on substance, and see problems with insubstantial campaigns that make me question the competence of the politicians who run too hard that way, I don’t have a lot of confidence that substance is indispensable to victory.

  144. 144.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Major Major Major Major: yeah, this. Howard Dean is literally the only DNC head who ever tried to drive messaging. The DNC shouldn’t be doing that. It should be people like Kamala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand, who – surprise, surprise – are actually doing that but being ignored.

  145. 145.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Heard today that Iowa’s AG joined with those suing Trump for ending DACA. Glad to be on the right side for a change. Needless to say, the AG is the only D in the state’s govt right now.

  146. 146.

    Betty Cracker

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s not all it is, but IIRC, it’s doing a shitty job at that too. I wasn’t expecting to be fighting rear-guard actions from Sandersites to replace primaries with caucuses eight months into Trump’s term. I was expecting more movement on voter ID, etc.

  147. 147.

    Bobby Thomson

    @FlipYrWhig: substance is actually counterproductive to victory. You have to trick people into prioritizing for the long term and not voting for their basest impulses.

  148. 148.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wasn’t expecting to be fighting rear-guard actions from Sandersites to replace primaries with caucuses eight months into Trump’s term.

    And that’s the DNC’s fault how, exactly? JFC, that’s like blaming Obama because the racist white mobilized during his presidency.

  149. 149.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Bobby Thomson:

    The only “Dem” who consistently is featured on MSNBC and other national media is that attention whore non-Dem Sanders, who never wastes an opportunity to shit talk Dems, which is why he’s featured. And fuck Tom Perez for appointing that divisive unaccomplished fraud as head of a “unity” commission. What a huge mistake.

  150. 150.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wasn’t expecting to be fighting rear-guard actions from Sandersites to replace primaries with caucuses eight months into Trump’s term. I was expecting more movement on voter ID, etc.

    That’s kind of exactly what I was expecting, but then I live in deadender central.

  153. 153.

    Betty Cracker

    @Bobby Thomson: Bullshit. The DNC bigs let Sanders load his kookiest deadenders into the “unity” commission, and they’ve staged hissy-fit after hissy-fit ever since. Making some concessions to the Sandersites made sense — Sanders got 43% or so of the primary votes. Giving them an outsized role was a mistake.

  158. 158.

    kindness

    It’ll be interesting to see how the debt ceiling/disaster funding wording comes out on the bill that it has to have. Nothing Republican Congressional leadership has done in the last 10 years disputes they won’t try to stick a shiv into the legislation as it travels the House Senate circle. Just because Trump agrees to something doesn’t mean that is how it gets spelled out. So, we’ll see. For myself I love watching right wing nuts gore each other and bitch and moan to the cameras. That picture is worth a thousand words (and more popcorn).

  159. 159.

    Betty Cracker

    Touché.

    But seriously, at this point, I’m convinced we’d be better off if Keith Ellison was running the DNC. I like him and Perez both just fine, but if Ellison were in charge, maybe that “victory” over the “establishment” would have mollified the Sanders deadenders and they wouldn’t feel the need to throw sand in the gears every step of the way. Or not.

  161. 161.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Betty Cracker: as long as Sandersites behave like the People’s Front of Judea, there was no winning. The DNC could have not put them in and suffered the same carping, only with “proof” of the DNC’s “bias” and “corruption.”

  163. 163.

    The Moar You Know

    if Ellison were in charge, maybe that “victory” over the “establishment” would have mollified the Sanders deadenders and they wouldn’t feel the need to throw sand in the gears every step of the way. Or not.

    @Betty Cracker: It wouldn’t. They are hellbent on burning down the Dem party for not anointing their personal Jesus. A problem which I don’t know how to fix, I might add. You can’t let people hold you hostage, but if enough of those folks walk we will never win an election again.

  164. 164.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Betty Cracker: no, then we would have open caucuses in every state, and no southern or other heterogeneous states in the early part of the primary season. All DNC business would still be focused on Bernie and his cult settling old scores.

  168. 168.

    kindness

    Nancy & Chuck’s deal with Trump (if it goes through) is good for Democrats. It funds government, which we like, and delays. It pushes important things down the road. The one thing Republicans did fabulously during the Obama administration was delay. Do nothing. Republican’s thinking was Democratic priorities weren’t being addressed if they just kept delaying. It worked. Look at the Federal judge positions that didn’t get filled. We need to learn that lesson while we are in a minority status. And really we see what will come of this. A debt ceiling that comes due 10 days before Christmas isn’t going to get stopped. They’ll end up passing continuing resolutions because the insane Freedom Caucus refuses to settle for a compromise. Democrats will string that along for another year to come due right after the 2018 elections and use it for those elections. And take the delay and use that.

  169. 169.

    Betty Cracker

    @Bobby Thomson: Ellison isn’t a kook. Some of the folks Perez, et al, accepted as appointees to DNC positions are, like that Nomiki person, the perpetually aggrieved Ms. Turner, etc.

    There’s no point in arguing over it now — what’s done is done — but it was pretty obvious at the time that the DNC bent over backwards to accommodate the Sandersites, especially when one of their own didn’t get the chairmanship. TOO far backward, IMO.

  170. 170.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I think the local focus is a good idea.

    The Santa Fe mayoral race is going to be interesting now that Javier has decided not to run for reelection. We have a strong chance of retaking the governorship in NM – I heard Michelle Lujan Grisham speak recently and was positively impressed. We also want to retain and increase our majority in the Roundhouse in 2018. Right now there’s a vote to increase the county gross receipts tax by one-sixteenth of a percent. The proceeds will go to establishing a behavioral health crisis center, much needed since Susana decimated mental health services in the state. Early voting on the tax has already started.

  173. 173.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @satby:

    They’re the teabaggers of the left…

    This, although they’ll never acknowledge it. They’re just so friggin’ self-righteous and sure of themselves, in other words, True Believers. I’m very worried about divisions in the local party. Please good thoughts our way as we elect a new county chair. I want someone like our late chair, who effectively bridged the divide, but I don’t see any such candidate yet.

  174. 174.

    SFAW

    @hueyplong:

    But, under your scenario, they almost certainly would have consumed large quantities of bleach. Are you saying they would have survived the experience?

    I don’t consider the latter-day fascists like Kobach, Bannon, von Spakovsky, Miller, etc., to be in the same “bucket” (so to speak) as your garden variety Foxbot. The fascists I noted are appreciably smarter than your standard Rethug voter, but significantly more evil.

    Foxbots may be evil as well, but their overarching trait is their stupidity. After all, they get a lot of their “knowledge” from people like The Stupidest Man on Television, i.e., Hannity. Their stupidity and their racism. OK, their TWO chief traits are their stupidity and racism. And a fanatical devotion to Lying Littledick. OK, amongst their traits …

  175. 175.

    Benjamin Mays

    In practical terms, only our potential presidential candidates can possibly get the media attention to “define” our message. The 2016 party platform still largely explains what we want and stand for, updated by our emerging consensus on Medicare for all and $15/hour.

    Rather than hand-wringing, help us in Virginia now. We have statewide and local legislative races in about 60 days. There has been a tremendous increase/enthusiasm in activity at the local level, and far more willing and able candidates for the House of Delegates. The biggest need is for $. The Kochs and the national GOP are flooding funds in to stop our momentum. Please look at the Blue Virginia website and adopt some of our candidates. Knocking off a boat load of Rep incumbents will help us push more National GOP Representatives to retire and make 2018 even more viable.

    You really can be the the change you are looking for!

  176. 176.

    MomSense

    @satby:

    It’s a cult. If we don’t figure out how to do a Wilmer cult excision from the D party, they will fuck up 2018 bigly.

  177. 177.

    SFAW

    @satby:

    This, this, this. The majority weren’t Dems and aren’t concerned about party unity or success. They’re the teabaggers of the left… And a lot of them are authoritarians.

    Why don’t you (and the others) focus LESS on blaming or ridiculing Bernie and his followers, and MORE on winning elections?

    The preceding sentence was an experiment: I wanted to see what it would take for me to be able to type Native Russian’s go-to “argument” without laughing uproariously. As it turns out, I needed to run, full-speed, headfirst, into a brick wall. About seven times. Now, if you’ll excuse me while I call the EMTs.

    “Bleeding head good, healed head bad,” baby!

  179. 179.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @MomSense: It is a cult. I mean, the ones I know are crocheting little Bernie birds complete with tufts of white hair and handcrafted wire-rimmed glasses, wearing Bernie buttons ALL THE TIME, and constantly slagging on the evil DNC and Hitlary at party meetings and on FB. They worship at the altar of Bernie and – even apart from the self-defeating divisiveness – it’s disturbing.

  180. 180.

    Mart

    Deep down the little Natzi Trump must like taking orders from Jewish folks. Chuck and Nancy, Mnucihn, Kushner, etc.

  181. 181.

    d58826

    As a nation we are truly blessed by having patriots like Don Jr. He was willing to risk treason charges by meeting with the Russians in order to assess Hillary’s fitness for office. Or so sayth Twitter. (snark)

  182. 182.

    MomSense

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Oh god, crocheted bernie birds??

    I still haven’t heard a rational explanation for what the eeevil DNC did to sabotage his campaign. I’m pissed they let that non democrat asshat run for our party’s nomination.

  183. 183.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @MomSense:

    Oh god, crocheted bernie birds??

    For real. Disturbing, no?

    ETA: As for rational explanations, does anything about this cult seem rational to you? I want universal health care as much as the next person, but Bernie as Messiah? I don’t get it.

  184. 184.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: Democrats don’t “dread” Hillary Clinton’s book tour. “Leftists Who Want to Rehash the 2016 Election Beccause Poor Bernie Was WOBBED” are the ones who “dread” it. They’re the ones with the grievance. And the only ones who can afford to waste time over this shit are people who aren’t being directly affected by the GOP agenda. In short…more white privilege poutrage. So *done* with these “Democrats” who can’t think of anything to do but piss and moan. .

  185. 185.

    ruckus

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    I’ll ask this in all sincerity, right this minute, who is the current leader of the Democratic party?
    No one really, we aren’t in the majority in any part of the federal government, so best guess, it’s President Obama or even Hillary Clinton. She doesn’t seem to mind the limelight, he doesn’t seem to relish it.

  186. 186.

    J R in WV

    @ruckus:

    …who is the current leader of the Democratic party?

    From today’s political news, sounds like Nancy Pelosi is leader of congress, her party, AND the president, so Bernie and his krewe should just shut up and go slink away.

    You “Feel the Bern” non-Democrats interfering with our Democratic party got that???? Go away, right now, before we give Nancy SMASH your email address, your IP address, and your work phone number. See what happens then! Look what she just did to Trump, and imagine what she can do with you!

  187. 187.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Quinerly: I don’t pay enough attention to stuff Trump says to tell, but I noticed that Trump’s poll numbers are a little bit up–that suggests he’s been keeping quieter than usual (and the not too screwed up Harvey response probably actually helped him a little, regardless of him saying dumb things then). The most despicable thing he’s done lately was the DACA reversal, which was after those polls, and he outsourced the public announcement on that to Jeff Sessions.

    Past experience suggests that any period of Dr. Jekyll Trump just means Mr. Hyde Trump is coming back very, very soon.

  188. 188.

    Matt McIrvin

    @O. Felix Culpa: I kind of get it. Bernie is a symbol of every liberal wish the current political system seems to make impossible. The fact that he’s completely unlike anyone you’d think of as a major-party presidential candidate makes him a better symbol (just like Trump!)

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