So Max Baucus bravely came out for single payer in front of a crowd at Montana State, an act that requires roughly the same moral courage as demonstrating against GMOs in a Whole Foods, or waving a confederate flag at a NASCAR race.
I’ve always believed – ponies notwithstanding – that “Medicare for All” is better messaging. Other than that, I can’t generate as much anger or surprise as I’ve seen on the Twitter this afternoon over Max’s speech. Baucus, Obama and the rest of the Democrats pushed through Obamacare using their best judgment of what bill would pass. It passed, people’s lives are better, and the consensus that Democrats will run on in 2018 and 2020 is that we need to move beyond Obamacare to single payer Medicare for All. When even a wimpy blue dog like Max says so, you know the party is united on healthcare.
Baud
We have a slogan, but no content yet. But it’s a start.
Major Major Major Major
I don’t see why you have to pooh-pooh it. It does, in fact, require political courage, otherwise more Democrats would have done it.
ETA: for the record I’d probably give an anti-GMO protestor at whole foods a little shit
Patricia Kayden
So no courage then?
Iowa Old Lady
Congress’s failure to repeal it shows the extent to which Obamacare has become the norm. It turned out that, to their own surprise, most people didn’t want it to go away. It’s a starting place.
Yutsano
If you knew anything about Montana State, that actually is a rather brave act. Bozeman isn’t exactly a speck of blue in a red state.
Baud
@Iowa Old Lady: Agreed. Obamacare was a game changer in terms of people’s expectations.
dmsilev
I think this is the key point. ACA, or Obamacare if you prefer, was always a stepping stone towards the goal of universal healthcare. It would have been a bigger step if it weren’t for John Roberts but it always was just a step. The goal is to build on that and to step forwards (and, of course, to do our best to keep the Republicans from stepping backwards).
dmsilev
@Iowa Old Lady: Bill Kristol was right about that. The exception that proves the rule I guess.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Iowa Old Lady: @Baud: trump didn’t know it, and nobody in the allegedly hostile media noticed it, but he campaigned on a massive expansion of Obamacare, basically proving right all of us who said for years one of the reasons Obamacare wasn’t more popular was that it didn’t go far enough.
James Powell
@Iowa Old Lady:
Because it was always about the president being black. Even before it passed, in the death panel summer, it was all about the president being black. The press/media gave the Republicans and the forces of evil a lot of help back then, what with letting them lie on the air and giving the whole thing the “some say” and “both sides” treatment.
I like “Medicare for All Who Want It” to maintain the illusion of choice so many Americans think they have when it comes to employer sponsored health care insurance plans.
leeleeFL
So, “Tea and Cake, or Death”? Love me some Eddie Izzard. What the actual f— is wrong with people. I have never, not once, understood why anyone stands against healthcare for everyone. How can people be so shitty?
Barbara
Baucus and Lieberman were in bed together to MAKE SURE that reform revolved around private insurers, i.e., no public option. Bravery only counts when it is timely. No fucking credit at all to Baucus. And if there is any perverse pleasure I take wrt Lieberman, it is that a number of insurers are moving a lot of their operations out of Connecticut. What a pair of losers, the both of them.
mai naem mobile
I really really liked Harry Reid but one of the mistakes he made was appointing Baucus as ahead of the committee in charge of pushing the ACA through. I think Baucus dragged his feet getting it passes so rust he could raise money. Obama could have done more stuff with more time. I’ve seen Baucus on CNBC post Obama and Senate . Super milquw toast debater. Same goes for Steny Hoyer. I don’t expect a Maxine Waterd out of wvery pol but show a little passion and spine.
StringOnAStick
Most of Montana is scary guns n gawd country, and that means RW radio and Fox have been poisoning the discourse for quite awhile. I recall a gas station selling boxes of “Spotted Owl Helper” up near Flathead lake in the 1990’s when I’d barely heard of either. The university towns are where the blue areas are.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
What’s interesting is Saint Bernard Sanders has recently decided to cut and run from single payer in favor of incremental change.
Now I got a good laugh outta watching the self proclaimed revolutionary turn into a pragmatist, but unfortunately it signals he wants to run again for president and he doesn’t want to be swamped by 100s of millions of dollars in hysterical Harry and Louise ads, scaring the olds about gubmint take overs.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@mai naem mobile: Harry Reid didn’t appoint Baucus. The Senate works on a seniority system. Baucus, through his seniority, became chairman of the finance committee 4 years before Harry become the Democratic leader.
RepubAnon
People don’t like change – especially in big jumps. Better to put things through in installments.
One thing that helps is that the Republicans had to show their true colors. Before, they could demonize without consequence. Now, kicking people off the insurance rolls has consequences… and people started to figure out that the real Republican plan was to funnel money to the 0.1%. Hopefully, enough voters will figure this out to let the Democrats take t least the House in 2018.
Raven Onthill
It’s easy to be for something when you’re pretty sure it’s not going to pass.
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Sanders is a smart politician, knows when and how to compromise. Me, back in February of 2016: “Sanders cannot possibly deliver on his policy proposals unless somehow the whole Congress is overturned. I think he knows it, too, and will compromise when push comes to shove. But how will the public react to that? Senators are expected to compromise; Presidents are expected to lead.” He was pretty damn effective, too. Still is, to judge by the newfound popularity of single-payer.
And why the objections from more conservative Democrats? He’s compromising. Isn’t that what you want?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
having passed such important legislation as….. ?
almost as popular as common sense gun safety rules, or the public option
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill: he’s so smart he’s never passed a single bill in 27 years in washington.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill:
I knew you guys would say this. you people used to rail against against this approach, smearing everyone as corporatists sellouts. Hell, you wackos wanted to “Kill-The-Bill!” and deny 30 million people healthcare. Now that revolutionary Sanders has caved to Big Insurance you love it. Bernie could recommend drinking bleach and you guys would line up for the kool-aid.
mai naem mobile
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I must be thinking of the committee that Reid decided to put it through. What I do clearly remember was that Baucus let every freading GOP Sen come in and make amendments,debate, each one would then still refuse to vote for it anf that ate up a ton of time anf the Dems didn’t even get any credit for doing that. And,I remember he was raising big $$$ during that period.
Raven Onthill
Rob Reich, on Sanders as an effective legislator:
Context and cite.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jim, Sanders has been one of the minority of legislators pushing for common sense actions while all around him there is support for almost anything else. The ability to turn common sense into effective legislation is uncommon, and I wish we had more people who could do it.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill:
He lost by 3,700.000 million votes. He would have lost by even more, but he got bailed out be the caucus system.
You people sound like Trump and Charlie Sheen when they babble about “winning”.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@mai naem mobile: there’s no doubt Baucus was corrupt. But unfortunately any bill that raises taxes has to go through the finance committee.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill: this is propaganda. this is like trump saying he’s a deal maker or he’s “really rich”.
Reich is lying.
when he was labor secretary (1992-1996), Sanders was just starting out in the House. He was only 1 out of 435. He had no seniority, He was from a poor rural district and didn’t raise money for others. By Bernie’s own account, he’s a loner with few friends. And the House doesn’t have filibuster rules that allow individual senators to place holds on nominees and hold legislation hostage. That’s why he can’t name any piece of legislation. Not one. It’s a myth as big as Trump’s con about being a self made success in business.
PS: why is the brilliant Sanders hiding tax returns.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
here’s the opinion of Democratic legislators who actually worked with His Blessedness
Raven Onthill
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Really? Everyone knows more than the man who was there, who is obviously lying? That’s not a reasonable way to think. Sanders tenure in the House was January 3, 1991 – January 3, 2007; Reich’s tenure as Secretary of Labor was January 20, 1993 – January 20, 1997. That’s enough time to see Sanders emerge as a legislator; by Reich’s report an effective legislator, and Reich didn’t leave politics after Reich returned to private life, and so likely continued to follow Sanders.
I agree that Sanders lost fairly to Clinton – why do you bring that up? I suspect that, had become the Democratic candidate, he would have had horrible problems with Republican opposition research. But I’m writing about Sanders as a legislator, and as such he seems to me to have been a good one, and to remain so.
Raven Onthill
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: “you people used to rail against against this approach, smearing everyone as corporatists sellouts.” Not guilty. At the time I wrote “I criticize no-one’s choice in this matter, save only choices made through willful ignorance or active deception.” I am pleased to find that many of the worst consequences of passage I feared have not materialized, though there have been some terrible failures.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: On the other hand, he was the only white Representative to stand with the Congressional Black Caucus – founded by Rangel – against an especially odious crime bill in – I think – 1996 (I’ve seen the video, but don’t have it to hand), and the first candidate to say “Black Lives Matter” during the Presidential debate. Frank’s remark was made early in Sanders Congressional career; he later moderated his views. Wasn’t that the start of this discussion? Sanders is compromising. The politic thing to do in this case is to say “Thank you,” not to badmouth the person your side has just made a deal with.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill: prove it. you can’t. It just doesn’t exist. there is no evidence to support Reich’s ridiculously biased claim. It’s like Kucinich’s claim that he encountered a triangular flying saucer that smelled like roses and communicated with him telepathically. It’s all a pack of lies; no different than Trump’s lies about being a billionaire and a success in business.
I’ll make it easy for you: name all the legislation Sanders has changed/modified, in any way, that has passed this year. I know there’s much that it would be impossible to list, so just name the top 5.
I make it even more easy. Name all the legislation Sanders has changed/modified, in any way, that passed in the past 5 years.
Face it, as a legislator, he’s been weak, a complete failure, and a total disaster.
Sad.
Raven Onthill
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Politifact offers a link to the 44 amendments he has had passed in the Senate, which, they explain, is a fairly impressive number.
The full piece is called “Bernie Sanders was the roll call amendment king from 1995 to 2007.” The discussion includes ratings of his effectiveness as a legislator for his entire political career, and he comes off fairly well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the one he voted for (but only the good parts!)?
nope, the first was, and twenty-five years later, Frank’s opinion had little changed.
tell you what, when that shouty, self-righteous old gasbag goes back in time to January, 2016, never mentions WALL STREET SPEECHES, never talks about who’s a “true progressive” or who’s “qualified” to be president, never gets the children all excited with his dishonest and reductive rhetoric about “free college”, doesn’t bring Susan Sarandon, Michael Moore and other millionaire dilettantes to call Hillary Clinton a Wall Street whore who doesn’t care about working people, doesn’t blackmail the DNC into inviting embittered opportunist and back-stabbing shitheel Cornel West onto the platform committee, doesn’t try to hijack the convention, doesn’t spend a year and half charging the party he refuses to join with corruption because they won’t bend to his will, and releases as many years of tax returns as Hillary Clinton did, I’ll say thank you. Until then, fuck that bellowing old asshole and his preening, toxic sanctimony. Fuck him with a rusty, acid-dipped railroad spike.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Raven Onthill: Did you bother to click on the underlying bills the amendments were attached to to see if they passed – of course not. The amendments are useless when attached to bills that fail. Of the 44 amendments, only 15 became law, because most of the bills failed.
Here are the weak, pathetic amendments that became law.
1. To require a report by the Commission to Strengthen Confidence in Congress regarding political contributions before and after the enactment of certain laws.
2. To establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program.
3. To require that not less than 30 percent of the hot water demand for certain new or substantially modified Federal buildings be met through the installation and use of solar hot water heaters.
4. To prohibit funds made available in this Act from being used to implement a rule or regulation related to certain petitions for aliens to perform temporary labor in the United States. (Anti Immigrant)
5. To prohibit the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, with respect to increases in dollar amounts for the payment of disability compensation and dependency and indemnity compensation, from rounding down such dollar amounts to the next lower whole dollar.
6. To increase, with an offset, the amount appropriated for Operation and Maintenance, Army National Guard, by $10 million.
7. To require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers. (Anti Immigrant)
8. To require the Secretary of Homeland Security to submit to Congress a report on reducing the time to travel between locations in the United States and locations in Ontario and Quebec by intercity passenger rail.
9. To provide funds for the school community garden pilot program, with an offset.
10. To provide additional amounts for technical assistance grants.
11. To require the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition to use certain funds to conduct a study on obesity.
12. To require the Administrator of the General Services to make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008.
13. To provide amounts to support innovative, utility-administered energy efficiency programs for small businesses.
14. To express the sense of the Senate on significantly reducing child poverty by calendar year 2019.
15. To extend the pediatric priority review voucher program.
6 of the amendments relate to studies, data, and sense of the senate. 2 amendments are anti-immigrant, keeping in with his repeated votes against immigration reform.
This is what you people are crowing about? This crap? It would have been better if he didn’t pass anything. These measly, impotent measures are an embarrassment.
Total Disaster!
Sad.
Jenny
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Instead of calling him the King of Amendments, they should call him the King of Crap.
Raven Onthill
So now you go from “He didn’t do anything” to “The Republican majority didn’t pass the bills and anyway they weren’t the amendments I wanted.”
Grab the goal posts and steal ’em, that’s the ticket!
You are also ignoring Sanders excellent history in the House and Volden and Wiseman’s independent measures of legislative effectiveness (Sanders comes out pretty well.)
I’m outta this one.
Raven Onthill
No, I find I’m not.
Most amendments are what you call “crap.” You think legislation is all glory? Most of it’s big programs like the ACA? Hell no, it’s not! Most of it’s a slog. Stuff like training programs and studies and little appropriations.
Sanders was (and is) doing his job. You’re objecting to him doing his job conscientiously.
Ramalama
Late in the thread this is — but Dan Savage thinks (and I think he may be right) that a best term to use would be “Universal Healthcare.” He laid out how he thought Republicans would turn around the other phrases to their advantage.