After having to use the air conditioner last night, I’m recalling what we used to call “State Fair weather.” About the middle of September, during State Fair, we used to have several days, even a week, of cold and rain. I can recall going to State Fair in my down parka. The tomatoes would all be killed by frost. Now the tomatoes go until Halloween.
We’ve had two record-breaking hurricanes. Completely off the charts. Another is lurking in the Caribbean, with predictions that it may hit New York. The glaciers are melting. State Fair weather is delayed until winter. The seas are rising. It’s time to say that global warming has something to do with all this. I’m still seeing arguments that you can’t link any one of these things to global warming in a definitive way, but the fact is that the atmosphere is behaving quite differently than in any of our lifetimes and stretching what has been recorded.
It’s global warming.
It’s not wrong to look very closely at the specifics, but those who do that must be careful that their cautions don’t serve as fodder for those who would deny that any such thing is happening. We now have people in power who would erase what we are seeing and substitute their own words that fill their pockets with money. We can’t let them do that.
Great news that Adam and Betty are safe! If you are in Florida and haven’t checked in, this thread is for you!
Also, open thread!
Cheryl Rofer
Here’s Betty’s tweet from three hours ago.
TenguPhule
Global Climate Destabilization, technically.
Hotter highs and more devastating lows. Just not in the same places. Usually.
Roger Moore
The idea that we can’t definitively pin any specific event on global warming is just another line from the denialist handbook. The unspoken message is that since we can’t tie specific events to global warming, there’s no way to be sure it’s happening. Maybe we can’t say Harvey or Irma was specifically caused by global warming, but the big picture is still there. We’re still having abnormal weather, and the abnormality all points in the same direction: toward the globe being warmer than it has been in human history.
SiubhanDuinne
I wondered what had happened to this thread! Glad you put it back up.
@TenguPhule:
Oh, just wait a few more years.
Barbara
@Roger Moore: They were made more intense by warming. The currents in the ocean and the gulf were warmer. That doesn’t create the storms, but it makes them worse. These storms were nearly apocalyptic. How many people are going to look forward to moving to Houston or Florida if they knew that these events will be more common?
jeffreyw
I remember ice skating on the various ponds and lakes. Not lately.
Cheryl Rofer
@TenguPhule: It’s global warming. The global average temperatures are going up, even if some places will experience abnormal cold spells at times.
@SiubhanDuinne: Adam and I posted almost simultaneously, so I delayed this one.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Do you still have power? Be prepared if you do, because it won’t last long.
trollhattan
Bill McKibbon shares his thoughts.
TenguPhule
@trollhattan:
And our Senate was holding up snowballs when we had a chance to do something about this.
Fuck, I hate Republicans.
O. Felix Culpa
We went to the NM State Fair yesterday. It was hot and no down parkas in sight. Spent a lot of time in the indoor exhibits (traditional Hispanic and Native American arts & crafts, Future Farmers of America projects, chickens and bunnies, bread-baking competitions, etc.) to escape the sun. We also enjoyed a green chile cheeseburger and a tasty slice of green chile apple pie. Yum!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
The ones making these arguments are hacks with no relevant scientific training in climate science. They’re opinions really should not matter. Yet here we are. Because in America even the village idiot gets to have a platform to air his stupid thoughts.
Though to be honest, here in NE Ohio it’s been fairly unseasonably chilly the last two weeks or so.
PhoenixRising
Curious because I saw the relatives who moved to FL from OH in 1964 last week; they are 80 and deny climate change is real: Is the talking point ‘climate change is a liberal hoax’ believed more by the first generation of Americans to move to a new region in early/mid-adulthood? That is, do those who stayed where they grew up really buy that climate change isn’t happening, despite directly witnessing the changes at that site…and did Boomers’ migration to warmer/sunnier climes prime them to literally not know any better?
When I was a kid, Cleveland was COLD for 5 months a year and now it’s less cold for fewer days. When I visit the area at different times of year, as I have over the past 28 months, I’ve recalled weather patterns I grew up with at those times and observed the shifts. They are unmistakable.
Just something I’ve been thinking about this week. State Fair is in my neighborhood, at 5230′, and last night I left the pool cover off because I needed to bring the water temp down into the zone where chlorine works. As it happens, 16 years ago last night, I had just closed the pool because it was getting too chilly to enjoy, which I recall distinctly due to the events the next morning when I was a bit later to work than normal. At the time I was new here, but now I see patterns.
PhoenixRising
@O. Felix Culpa: Green chile apple pie is where now? going Sat. for Out At The Fair.
JPL
This is the first time that Atlanta has had a tropical storm warning, and my temperature is 59. Climate change is real.
Cheryl Rofer
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I probably wasn’t clear enough about that. I hope to write a longer post. What I’m seeing is the argument that you can’t say that global warming caused a particular hurricane, which is correct, but IMHO far too pedantic. There are better and worse ways to communicate this stuff. I’m angry right now that it all has become so obvious and yet we have the EPA insisting that those dirty words “climate change” and “global warming” not appear in proposals when they should be leading the way on encouraging more study.
chris
“Global weirding” someone called it. It’s here and it’s real.
I heat with wood and I will light the fire tonight as I have most nights since late August. I had three fires in July too. Twelve years here that’s never happened. My 70 year old neighbour says it’s too make up for last year’s heat and drought. Drought in southern Nova Scotia! That’s never happened in two hundred years of living and written memory.
Sure am glad I live in a country that doesn’t deny reality.
Bill Arnold
Two things: first, start following the climate change pieces by David Wallace-Wells at nymag.com, if you don’t already. He clearly has reasonable (not perfect) intuitions about how to influence the debate.
This is a helpful organized rehashing of the ideological aspects of US climate change denialism by a European (short on numbers, and I could quibble with a lot of it :-):
The Ideology of Climate Change Denial in the United States (2014, 11 pages of easy-reading text, plus a big pile of refs.)
Note they don’t explain the uptake by US Social Conservatives. To first approximation, climate change denialism was injected into the the US Republican Party canon decades back. US Social Conservatives (religious generally) pick it up as a package deal. The religious subset, being Believers, Believe it. (So do others – political affiliation can be remarkably similar to religious belief.)
In the paper, the author breaks down the ideological aspects as (1) short-term (vs the damage) selfish business interests, (2) survival of small-government ideologies, (3) the preservation of “The American Way of Life”.
If anyone has a better or interestingly different paper (link) please share.
I haven’t found convincing details yet (just looked briefly) of how it (climate change denialism) got injected into US politics that explains it all.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Is your power back on? Lights are flickering here.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Yes, but wobbly. See my #19.
trollhattan
@Bill Arnold:
Merchants of Doubt?
O. Felix Culpa
@PhoenixRising: Asbury Cafe, which is somewhere between the Hispanic Arts and Manuel Lujan Buildings, if I remember correctly. They have lots of pie choices.We tried rhubarb and green chile apple slices (with ice cream, natch). Both were flavorful and not too sweet. The pie crust was a little doughy, but still worth it!
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: It did that here and then poof.. I still on a little bit on my unverse battery, then I have a book. According to the outage map, John’s Creek has a large outage.
Peachtree downtown is closed, and 59 is cold. .
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne:
If you’re having intermittent and unstable power, consider powering down certain continually running items, especially the fridge. Power fluctuations can damage/kill them. Fridge probably has a dedicated circuit breaker.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Cheryl Rofer:
I agree. One time’s an accident, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a pattern. When you appoint an asshole to run the SPA this is the result.
The worst part? Long after Trump is dead and worm food, people will still be suffering for his douchebaggery.
PhoenixRising
That’s the Methodist ladies’ pie shop, and yes, it’s on the east side near the state park building where they give out Smokey Bear pencils.
Anyone who wishes to draw out why it’s the Asbury Cafe, and the connection to Springsteen’s first album, is welcome…I have to go to work, sadly for me.
Kay
Donald Trump’s clownish, low quality “voting commission” continues to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars:
They should all just go home. They’re not contributing anything worthwhile to anyone. We already have laws on voter fraud and this collection of misfits and low-talent cranks isn’t going to improve upon them. They’ll make everything they get near worse.
Bill Arnold
Oh, and think of the two (+? :-( ) record-breaking hurricanes as elements [1] of a narrative. The American right-wing sure is, right down to conspiracy theories. The American left should be better weavers of convincing and true (because it is based on true facts) narrative, “creative class” and all.
[1] among other elements, e..g. trollhattans Bill McKibbon link @9
jl
@Roger Moore:
” The idea that we can’t definitively pin any specific event on global warming is just another line from the denialist handbook. ”
It’s an old industry strategy. You can’t prove this particular heart attack was definitely caused by smoking, or this particular cancer death was caused by environmental contamination, so you can’t prove any of a thousand or ten thousand cases were.
It is true that one extreme or record event doesn’t give enough information to say anything. But ever growing lists of extremes and record events can tell you a lot. So, applied to specific categories of events, we’ve had a small numbers problem. That seems to be changing fast. But problem is that we can’t wait for a very long list of that before we take adequate measures. I read that specific cyclical conditions lead to the little spate of big hurricanes, and there have been three previous years with as many severe hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. So, now you have to aggregate over multiple dimensions: Harvey had record rainfall, Irma was the biggest, etc.
So, getting reliable information is a hard problem scientists and statisticians have to solve, but the info IS there. Talking point that you can’t determine anything from a unique event should have the status of a zombie lie at this point and people spouting it have to be challenged and challenged hard.
Edit: to be clear, not intended to contradict anything you said, just amplify.
JPL
@trollhattan: My son just called and said you told me to buy ice, and you didn’t
lol
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
That’s part of it. Not nearly all of it, pretty sure.
trollhattan
@JPL:
Kids! :-)
germy
I haven’t experienced a normal winter in a long time.
We don’t get normal snow anymore. We get freezing rain followed by sleet followed by snow followed by sleet followed by freezing rain. No more of the light, powdery stuff. You need consistent cold temperatures for that.
Instead we get weird fluctuations of temperature and heavy mixed precipitation.
And so the resulting sludge is like shoveling wet cement.
jl
One thought that comes to my mind about the extreme event thing, is seems like the duration of many historical records is shrinking. So, instead of worst heat wave, or most intense deluge or worst hurricane season is shrinking from ‘in a 100 years’ to ‘in 50 years’ to ‘in 10 years’ to ‘since last year’.
I don’t know if anyone is tracking that. But lists of extremes can tell you a lot.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay:
And likely on purpose. Voting is a constitutional right and should not have that level of restriction on it. What are the criteria for this “background check”? Prior drug use? Convictions? Perhaps planted by corrupt security forces in order disenfranchise anyone they don’t like? All of this money for a solution in search of a problem that doesn’t exist meant to create a covert police state that will keep the GOP in power for years. Sounds just like Russia’s “managed democracy”. That they even have the audacity to call themselves patriots is a crime in and of itself.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
They’re not even trying to hide it at this point,
dexwood
@O. Felix Culpa:
If you spent time in the Native arts building you probably saw my son’s 2 paintings and my wife’s clay Pueblo clown figures (Koshare). Mrs. dexwood was a one of the art judges awarding ribbons this year, too. I like to go in the morning while it’s still on the cool side, clean, and not too crowded. One of my favorite events for people watching and taking pictures. Though, I think the quality of Asbury pies has declined in recent years, but it’s hard to beat a really good green chile apple pie.
Kay
Oh, boy. talk about hitting them where it hurts. Is there anything worse for the Red Cross than “didn’t show up”? Their whole reason for being is showing up.
trollhattan
@germy: Chunks of California just had the wettest recorded winter and chunks are in the midst of setting summer temperature records. There’s some crossover of the two as well. The new normal, never appreciated the old normal back when it was normal.
jl
@Kay: I guess good sign is that they have to lead with obvious, easily debunkable, BS to push there agenda. I read that tomorrow the bogus voter integrity commission is going after college student vote with bogus NH study that most of same day registration in last election used out of state drivers licenses, forgetting to mention that there were additional requirements to demonstrate residence, such as having a local utility account or local college registration.
trollhattan
O/T somehow, wingnuts will consider this to be the greatest threat to Freedom ™ yet.
rikyrah
@O. Felix Culpa:
Green Chile Apple Pie???
Major Major Major Major
@Bill Arnold:
I of course first tried to read this as a c-style ternary expression.
germy
@trollhattan:
Yes. I’m not a big fan of cold weather, but I miss the light powdery snow we used to get.
Now we get sleet/snow/sludge, and then everything freezes overnight.
Also, we lived for 20 years in a house with a giant backyard. Back in 1995 the mowing season began early June, and the grass stopped growing in October. I’d keep mowing until November just to chop up the fallen leaves.
When we moved out in 2013, mowing season began in April and the grass was still growing early November.
The Moar You Know
San Diego got hot – sometimes quite a bit hotter than it has in years here – but never, ever, ever humid. Until 1996. We’d get a few days. Then it became a couple of weeks. A decade later, it had gotten so bad I did something I never thought I’d have to do in my entire life here: bought an air conditioner.
The A/C in a good year now runs for a couple of months. A bad year it will run for four. This is a huge problem; there’s not a house here that was built for central A/C and the ones that now have it are having moisture problems from condensation.
This year I have had MUSHROOMS growing out of my lawn for the first time ever, due to the heat/humidity combo.
Few here buy climate change as a legit thing. Which is understandable. They haven’t been living here long enough and think all this is completely normal.
germy
@trollhattan:
I’m old enough to remember when wingnuts fired their guns at drones. Now they collect drones and resent any registration attempts?
Kay
@jl:
They’re just bad at this. The requirement to get an in-state driver’s license is a driving law, it isn’t a voting law. If they want to accuse the students of something they should be accusing them of violating a motor vehicle regulation- it has nothing to do with whether they’re valid voters. That’s a different question.
They’re making profound category errors -like the difference between “driving” and “voting”- and chasing their own tails. We’ll pay them whatever they were promised for this garbage “work” they’ve completed. Just go.
rikyrah
@Kay:
OT: Kay
How is your son’s house hunt going?
A question related to your topic-
Did you comment on the clown from NH trying to give a lame azz reason as to why he remains on the commission AFTER Kobach’s evil azz accused his state of voter fraud. He sounded absolutely pitiful and delusional, Kay, especially after the entire New Hampshire Congressional Delegation requested that he leave the fraud commission.
O. Felix Culpa
@dexwood: Cool! I wish I’d known they were dexwood family artworks. We spent a lot of time in that exhibit and I fell in love with several pieces. Exercised unusual self-control though and limited myself to food purchases yesterday.
David Evans
@Roger Moore: The way I argue this is; if you are playing a game with dice that are loaded against you, you can’t say for sure that any particular bad score was caused by the dice being loaded. You can say that you will get more bad scores than with fair dice, and that it’s not a good idea to get yourself into that position.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah: Yup! Delicious. Nice apple flavor with just a slight suggestion of New Mexico green chile heat. A surprisingly good combination.
Kay
@jl:
Because they are dumb people who are mixing up infractions. They’re wandering around in the woods now. They could chase this driver’s license thing for months until someone tells them that’s a different rule. Who makes mistakes like this? They’re morons.
Aleta
I’ve been appreciating these connections linked together on twitter by Cynthia Storer, Yashar Ali, Ned Price, Jenna McLaughlin, Sean Naylor.
This could seem off topic as to climate change; though the attitude –toward diversity, 3rd world countries, and information presented by women and by academics– has been part of resistance to the seriousness of climate change since the 70s.
Jenna McLaughlin : More White, More Male, More Jesus: CIA Employees Fear Pompeo Is Quietly Killing the Agency’s Diversity Mandate. CIA insiders worry reforms pushed by Brennan are languishing in his absence.
Ned Price on twitter: “The CIA I worked for championed diversity & inclusion, understanding the importance for the workforce & the mission. That must not change.”
Yashar Ali on twitter:
“2. But a group that is never acknowledged are the CIA intel analysts (who were mostly women) that warned about AQ and Bin Laden. 3. These women, like @CindyStorer, were sounding the alarm bells for years and were, unsurprisingly, largely ignored or dismissed. 4. In fact, @CindyStorer was admonished and told she was “obsessed” with Bin Laden – as if that was a bad thing. 5. In 2001, analysts like @CindyStorer were desperately trying to bring to the attention of policy makers that big stuff was going to happen. 6. They, again, were largely ignored. So after 9/11, even though they tried to sound the alarm bell, they were overwhelmed with guilt. 7. Even though CIA HQ was evacuated on 9/11 (with fears a plane could be headed to Langely) most of the women stayed to work. 8. And many of them still deal with PTSD not only from the attack/guilt but also all the intelligence they had to analyze post 9/11.”
Sean D. Naylor: Government Terrorist Trackers Before 9/11: Higher Ups Wouldn’t Listen
-Cynthia Storer @CindyStorer
Former CIA terrorism analyst; radicalization expert; lecturer (JHU), speaker, and researcher on counterterrorism and analysis.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Its not a mistake when its intentional.
dexwood
@O. Felix Culpa:
Wise. I always treat myself to once a year food selections there. Must include a fry bread with honey.
Thoughtful David
@Bill Arnold:
Cleek’s Law.
TenguPhule
@germy:
Those nude sunbathers aren’t gonna peep themselves, dontcha know!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw that this weekend, and it was very troubling. Not least because the head of the CIA talks about conflict in the middle east like a neo-Crusader. It reminds of things I’ve read about the FBI, overwhelming white, male, conservative and conspicuously “Christian”. I believe Louie Freeh was part of Opus Dei, as was the Russian spy (Robert Hansen).
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: John Lott? _More Guns Less Crime_ John Lott? I hear Mary Rosh says it’s the best proposal she ever heard.
Kay
@rikyrah:
He chickened out on the house and rented an apartment in Toledo. He has a roommate who is a 1st year apprentice. His roommate is really sweet-just a smiley, open polite person. I spent a day with both of them helping them move- they had 3 vehicles and 3 locations so they needed a driver.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, diversity is a lie-beral conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids, you know. A mission-critical operation like the CIA is no place for this kind of social engineering.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: Yup.
Steroids, Baseball, and Climate Change (has a 2:05 video).
Cheers,
Scott.
sheila in nc
@Kay: It’s not even an infraction. NH law is clear on the difference between a residence and a domicile; one is indefinite/permanent and the other is not. And the law is explicit that people who have a “domicile” (i.e. they spend most of their time in NH but do not intend to live there permanently) are not required to get a NH driver’s license — but they can still vote in NH.
I’ve seen this explained in several places. Here is one at Daily Kos:
sheila in nc
@sheila in nc:
jl
@Kay:
” Who makes mistakes like this? They’re morons. ”
You are in an optimistic mood today. I assumed that no one could be that dumb. There was a big fuss in the NH legislature over the complete bogusness of the report. I assumed that they know and are proceeding with it in bad faith, using the bogus report as propaganda.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
They’re going to spend a whole day accusing NH young people of violating a motor vehicle regulation because they haven’t yet figured out their basic error. These are basic concepts. It isn’t a matter of them not understanding the specifics of NH residency requirements. It’s that they’re stupid and are now all bollixed up.
Gelfling 545
@O. Felix Culpa: speaking of apple pie, i bought some Jersey Mac apples at the grocery store yesterday and, to my surprise, they taste like APPLES(!), not lightly sweetened styrofoam. A pie must be baked in their honor and apples with green chilies sounds intriguing.
jl
@Kay: We’ll see. After I heard the news spot on it, I assumed that they will spend the day yelling out bogus scare numbers and smearing and shouting down anyone who tries explain the law or the facts to them.
The ‘too damn dumb’ school of thought had not even occurred to me. Now that I am know some responsible people think it may be true, I hope it is.
Fair Economist
Here on the Southern California coast, the climate is bland, and it makes global warming more obvious. When I moved here 30 years it froze occasionally – every year or two – and it NEVER rained in the summer. So much so that once when I was invited to an outdoor summer wedding I asked my friend what they would do if it rained and he just laughed. It was ridiculous. Now it rains occasionally in the summer – every year or two – and it NEVER freezes. It hasn’t frozen at my house for twenty years. Cities are planting banana trees. It’s really noticeable.
Nationwide, we’re now getting 5 record highs for every records low. That’s slam-dunk proof it’s warming, but it’s not visceral like the swing I’ve seen in the weather here.
Iowa Old Lady
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
That’s how I feel about Reagan.
sheila in nc
@sheila in nc:
Sorry, I still don’t know how to put the links in. Anyway, it was a DKos article. Clear and informative.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Barbara: Mr. Mingobat finally gave up on his Florida Keys retirement dream with this storm. I lost the desire to move there years ago.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Its not an error.
Its intentional. This is another “pay to play corruption at the Hillary Foundation!” ” ACORN FASCISM!!!” bullshit that will be loudly shouted now and quietly retracted later once the meme takes hold in our thick as mud media.
Aleta
Get out of the way or get run down or hell why not both.
boatboy_srq
What boggles my mind is long-term residents in places like FL that don’t remember (or have been persuaded that they were mistaken and it’s always been like it is now) the winters. Not so very long ago, FL had a winter season: it wasn’t frigid, and it didn’t snow, but it was cold and rainy and crops did freeze. Somewhere around the Tampa/Cocoa line northward, there’d be some real cold weather (three-layer grade) for weeks on end. The pattern I remember is: first relief from humidity, mid-September; first cold snap, between Hallowe’en and Thanksgiving (followed by warming until Christmas); real cold wet spell, Christmas until Presidents’ Day; return of humidity, mid-June. As of bailing out of that part of the world not so very many years ago, the pattern I saw was: first relief from humidity, mid-November; first (only?) cold snap, Christmas; cold wet spell: Christmas to MLK day; return of humidity, mid-April. This is all in one lifetime, only a couple decades’ spread, for those changes. But nobody there seems to notice – or is brainwashed into not paying attention.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sheila in nc: there’s probably a better way, but this old man copies the text of the link, then highlight your text where you want the link to go, click on the “link” button and paste it in the window that comes up
boatboy_srq
@Fair Economist: I see we have similar observances, on opposite sides of the country.
boatboy_srq
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: See my handle for my answer to ownership of waterfront property. ,-)
TenguPhule
@boatboy_srq:
1990s, I remember they lost an entire crop of oranges one time.
gorram
Off topic, but this is Modi’s India – they’re killing journalists critical of far-right Hindu nationalist politics and there’s increasing lynchings of Muslims (under suspicion they are rustling/slaughtering cattle).
TenguPhule
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
And the season isn’t even over yet.
boatboy_srq
@TenguPhule: Coldest, wettest FL winter I remember was (great noodly FSM I feel old) 1975, with 1984 not far off. Citrus, strawberries, you name it, if it was growing it got frozen solid.
To get the same conditions now, you practically have to go up to North Carolina.
boatboy_srq
What did I say at 76.5 that got me into moderation?
TenguPhule
@gorram:
And Republicans are doing their best to lead us there.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: I guess the international thing my get them going, but drones over a certain size already need a license from the FAA. It’s easy to get online and costs $5.
Mike E
@boatboy_srq: It was a hard freeze that compromised the o-rings on the Challenger, 30 years ago
chris
@Kay: ACLU twitter
Cheryl Rofer
Released a couple of comments from moderation.
Barbara
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: I love Key West but as things go on, lots of Florida is going to be under water. At least Norfolk is consulting with Rotterdam to come up with a plan to adapt. When you read about what the Dutch are doing it’s amazing. They are already investigating collecting and treating storm water for use as drinking water. They might already be doing it.
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Yeah, it’s the UN overreach that will attract them like flies to a fresh cowpie.
My understanding at present all drone owners must register their craft with FAA and anybody using them for commercial purposes must also obtain a license, which involves a written test. The affected range is 0.55 to 55 pounds, the second being some serious mass.
Citizen Alan
@Aleta:
I will go to my grave absolutely convinced that if Al Gore had become president, 911 would not have happened.
trollhattan
@Citizen Alan: +1.
martian
I spent a lot of time lurking the Weather Underground board in the run-up to Irma, and the way in which any mention of climate change was attacked was peculiarly vehement. So much anger, even rage. It wasn’t possible to open discussion because people had their conclusions in hand ready to club you with. Yet these same people were on the boards to pick the brains of climate scientists and weather enthusiasts for every advantage the science could give them. And often the same people were bitterly complaining about “inaccuracies” and “hype”.
I’ve since been wondering a lot about whether to some degree conservative dogma must be accepted as a whole by true believers and never challenged. I mean, if you start tugging on that single strand of climate change, will the whole knot come undone? Is that why the instantaneous, reactive attacks? People acted so threatened. Or is it that a contrary belief marks you and separates you out from the rest of the tribe? It was very troubling to witness the churn of denialism, slander of expertise, and craving for expert opinion, I know that much.
Bess
Extreme one day rainfall events, 1910 – 2014.
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/images/indicator_downloads/heavy-precip-download1-2015.png
This needs more exposure.
Bess
Percent of the country with top 10% extremes, January through November. 1910 through 2014.
http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cei_jan-nov-copy.jpg
Bess
Global heat waves per year. 1880 forward.
https://www.climateemergencyinstitute.com/uploads/Extreme_weather_coumou.png
O. Felix Culpa
@Gelfling 545: Lucky you! Apple-tasting apples are a rarity in supermarkets.
Kay
@chris:
They have such bad ideas. They have a probate judge on there. I have no idea what a probate judge knows about voting, but they were obviously pretty desperate to get some people on the payroll. Anyway, he proposes making it a felony to be registered in more than one state. A felony! So if you move from one state and register in another without canceling your registration in the last state you can be a felon.
It’s all bad ideas like that. They should all just do us a favor and go home. The last thing we need are more dumb laws crafted by idiots. Stop helping us. We beg of you.
O. Felix Culpa
@dexwood: Maybe we should plan a BJ meetup at next year’s state fair, complete with fry bread and all things green chile.
John Fremont
@trollhattan: Despite the fact the ICAO, has every commercial and private aircraft listed and identified in its registry. Cell and satellite phones all have what’s called an IMEI number. Yet, you’re right, the paranoid wingnuts will blow this up into something new and sinister.
PhoenixRising
@O. Felix Culpa: Y’all come back Saturday afternoon and we can have it this year! I know, fair tickets are so damn pricey that’s not such a good offer. I am going then, though.
Per comment up above, my pool will still be open Saturday, because…it’s too hot around here.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Begging only makes their repression e-cucks harder.
Dmbeaster
@Roger Moore: Same argument can stupidly be made about smoking and lung cancer. How can you be sure your Stage IV lung cancer was specifically caused by life long 2 pack a day habit?
Ruckus
@The Moar You Know:
I remember having major storms in LA in the winter. Not often but some time in the very late 60s there was talk about arks when it had been raining for 30 days. And driving over relatively major bridges that had water lapping at the bottom of the bridge. The LA river was full. But it was on the order of a 100 yr storm at that time. There have been a few since. So no longer a 100 yr time frame.
Part of the problem is that the earth has been trough weather change before. The ice age, etc. But the people who say that and say we don’t need to worry about it because it’s happened before don’t take into account that the earth has changed a lot since then. Like it has 6 or 7 billion more people now. That we heat and cool a lot of things, a car runs at 190-200 degrees now, where does that heat go? Your house, you heat it in winter and cool it in summer where does that heat go? Making all that power has taken petroleum products up till now, where does the exhaust go and what sort of chemicals are in that? I’m not sure but I think a lot of people can’t do cause and effect. Either willfully or just out of stupidity.
Ruckus
@Kay:
They are? How could that be, they are fine upstanding republicans.
Yes this is sarcasm.
Yes I realize that those two concepts are interlocked. Republicans=morons.
Origuy
@Kay:
Who does that? I’ve moved to a different state twice and never considered canceling my registration. I just checked the California SOS website. In order to cancel your registration you have to write your county election official. I’ll bet they get less than a dozen such letters a year.
Ruckus
@martian:
It is not a political party. It is a cult masquerading as a political party. That’s why you can’t make any headway, to be part of a cult you have to accept the entirety, even if it wants to kill you. Maybe especially then.
Scientology is the cult of data, republicanism is the cult of bigotry.
Ruckus
@Dmbeaster:
You can’t. Because many of us know someone who does or did smoke like that for decades and doesn’t have lung cancer. Of course you may also know someone who never smoked and has lung cancer. Morons don’t know probability and statistics.
Origuy
I just checked Illinois’ board of elections website (the last state I lived in.) There’s no way given to cancel your registration. Somebody should ask Kobach how you cancel your voter registration in Kansas. Their website doesn’t say.
TenguPhule
@Origuy:
Kobach: Drop dead.
martian
@Ruckus: You’re right. When you call it a cult, the behavior makes sense – calling it tribal doesn’t go far enough. There’s a definite anxious quality to the intensity of the anger when the heresy of climate change comes up.
It’s just sort of amazing, though. I constantly want to ask, “Why? Can you think about why this makes you so very angry? How does having this conversation threaten you?” And the cognitive dissonance is positively dizzying. Scientists are alternately stupid, incompetent, and/or mendacious people “pushing an agenda”, but then, also brilliant wizards who should be able to predict the path of a hurricane with “99 percent accuracy”. Witch burnings begin to seem not so far off after a while.
chopper
@Kay:
jesus, and the red cross ha more money than god. what the hell, man.
rikyrah
@Origuy:
Write a letter with today’s date. Make sure your
Name
DOB
Address in Illinois
Last four digits of your SSN
Are on it.
Then write, in clear language — I want to cancel my voter registration .
Be sure to sign it. Mail it to your Illinois voter jurisdiction.
dexwood
@O. Felix Culpa:
Funny you say that. In 2010, we met about 15 people from all over the country for a blog meet up at the State Fair. It worked out so well, we carried over far into the night at the organizer’s house. Not this blog, but another top 10,000 place.
O. Felix Culpa
@PhoenixRising: @dexwood: I just got out of class (teach on Monday nights) and saw your comments. I wish I could come back on Saturday, but alas, prior commitments, etc. That said, we can’t let other top 10,000 blogs outdo us, so let’s aim for next year!
Kayla Rudbek
And apparently there is a theoretical entity called a hypercane ht Charles Stross.
Isobel
Downtown Jacksonville, including my hospital, is flooded. I’m soggy and exhausted physically and mentally but okay.