Chris Christie on MSNBC is essentially throwing Mike Pence under the bus for involving Mike Flynn in the transition and the WH
— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) September 20, 2017
Anybody seeing news stories about this?
Reminder, Christie was running transition efforts & had picked @RepMikeRogers to head national security efforts till sidelined. https://t.co/58rw01WgaK
— mieke eoyang (@MiekeEoyang) September 20, 2017
Manafort hand-picked Pence, convincing Trump to ditch Christie as VP nominee.https://t.co/obX5UXLqNA
— Adrienne ?(?????)? (@ImagineWorldas1) September 20, 2017
Mike Pence, apparently, can't even remember Paul Manafort's name. Referred to him as "somebody" on Fox & Friends https://t.co/mrw3szGtqd pic.twitter.com/vmTexfZuYc
— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) September 21, 2017
Guy gets him the gig and this is the thanks he gets? https://t.co/oB4VxWFilL
— Schooley (@Rschooley) September 21, 2017
efgoldman
The schadenfreude meter is pinned so hard at eleventy, it will break from the strain.
They are starting to turn on each other, and there aren’t even any indictments yet.
dww44
So, I tried to access the Gary Abernathy Op-ed in today’s Washington Post titled “Trump’s Supporters are Already Normal” but was blocked by the paywall. While I can get the drift of his piece i was most interested in some of the comments and how they came down on the piece. Has anyone read it and can share some insight?
Fair Economist
If Pence is dirty, Russian involvement is at the state level as well as federal, and older than the 2016 election. I wonder if Kobach is dirty too.
misterpuff
Pence bathing in a bucket of mud. The righteous box of rocks has exhibited no backbone concerning his running mate, the campaign, or the functioning of its administration. If he goes down with Drumpf for the Manafort connection, which I believe was a Kremlin referral to the campaign, it will be sooo sweet!
rikyrah
Do I need to go back to find the Maddow piece where she outlines all of Race Bannon’s lies?
Ok…I’m going now to find it.
Here it is:
Pence is up to his eyeballs in:
1. The Flynn Mess
2. The Comey Firing
3. MANAFORT- remember, it was MANAFORT that suggested Pence to Dolt45.
I know he and Mother have House of Cards fantasies….
but, if he thinks Dolt45 is going down without taking him with him….
DELUSIONAL.
jimmiraybob
An inquiring person might Google “russia and evangelicals.” Then strap in and hold on.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
How can there be so much discussion of Manafort and his tentacles, yet Tad Devine’s name is never mentioned? Manafort and Devine partnered to elect Putin’s candidate in Ukraine, then the next job they both get back here is to run campaigns designed to destroy Hillary Clinton? Devine comes back and convinces Wilmer to run as a Democrat – ORLY? Is there that much coincidence in the world? The Steele dossier which has been proven to be a reliable road map, mentions a Russian asset in the Dem camp. Why is there never any mention of this aspect????
bystander
At this rate I’ll never get to spam facebook with references to President Penice. They hate when you do that.
Villago Delenda Est
Pence is going to prison, too. I hope Mother will be understanding if there are female guards.
Elizabelle
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: If it comes up, it will be breaking news right before Wilmer debates healthcare on CNN.
I have been wondering that too, though.
Eunicecycle
@dww44: Oh God, the guy from Hillsboro OH. I had the “pleasure” of living in Hillsboro about 40 years ago and it hasn’t changed much. There weren’t any comments yet when I read it.
rikyrah
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
TELL IT!!!
Westyny
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: So much this. What about Devine??
A Ghost To Most
@dww44:
Whining about George Clooney being a liberal, and complaining about “not normalizing” fascists.
The end of the column:
rikyrah
If you note…this is BELOW the 27% Crazyfication Factor.
Poll shows weak public support for latest Republican repeal plan
09/22/17 11:20 AM
By Steve Benen
There are literally no major health care institutions in the United States that believe the latest Republican health care plan is a good idea. From doctors to nurses, hospitals to insurers, patient advocates to state officials, the entire industry has scrutinized the Graham-Cassidy legislation and called for its swift defeat.
On this, GOP policymakers are completely alone. They’ve convinced themselves – and no one else.
But what about the public? There hasn’t been much in the way of polling – the legislation was only introduced last week – but Vox this morning highlighted what I believe is the first national survey on the pending proposal.
Starfish
I have seen discussions on Twitter about this for months now. I think it is true.
The administration has been quick to hide Pence every time that Trump really gets into trouble, but he has been there for troublemaking.
Here is a TPM piece from May skeptical of the Pence knows nothing line.
Here is another piece from May skeptical of how little Pence says he knew.
Here is a story from this month about Pence being in the room when Trump was justifying Comey firing. Pence still claims he knew nothing.
Nicole
@dww44: I read it and I’m a little mad at you for not sharing what it was about because holy cow, that was some bullshit I just wasted 3 minutes of my life on.
That said, the commenters are overwhelmingly taking him to the woodshed. That part is very satisfying. My favorite so far:
“Thanks, Mr. Abernathy, for finally educating me on what is meant by the term “Midwestern Values”. I now know it means championing serial philandering, pathological lying, childish impetuousness, corruption, Narcissism, bullying, and self-dealing…which is to say Donny, the Midwest Messiah. Seeing that, I now also understand why it is referred to as ‘Flyover Country’. Who would want to visit or live where those are the admired character traits in a leader? ”
PS: I’m not really mad at you. Mad at WaPo for publishing this kind of crap, though.
jharp
@Eunicecycle:
I used to visit Hillsboro Ohio about 30 years ago.
I remember being in a bar and running into the guy who Johnny Paycheck shot in the head.
FlipYrWhig
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I would also like to know what was going on with that crew. Do we know how Devine got hooked up with Sanders in the first place? Googling around it seems that they came to an agreement in 2014. IIRC Manafort pitched himself to Trump. I wonder if Devine pitched himself to Sanders.
rikyrah
THE EVER LOVING PHUCK!!
Cassidy argues his bill protects people with preexisting conditions, because Trump tweeted it did
Citing Trump’s Twitter account as an authoritative source.
AARON RUPAR
SEP 22, 2017, 9:29 AM
During a radio interview on Thursday, Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) made a case that the health care bill bearing his name must protect people with preexisting conditions, because President Trump said so in a tweet.
In response to host C.L. Bryant’s question about how the so-called Graham-Cassidy legislation will affect people with preexisting conditions, Cassidy’s immediately brought up a tweet Trump published Wednesday evening.
…………..
“We address the problem of preexisting conditions, indeed last night President Trump tweeted that he would not sign a bill that did not address the issue of preexisting conditions — really strong statement,” Cassidy said.
trollhattan
@A Ghost To Most:
A little cheese with that whine? The writer could have stopped here.
Major Major Major Major
On the train to work this morning I wrote a cliffhanger in an action scene so good it made me feel dread. That’s how my day is going.
@Westyny: IMO Devine is merely a dirty mercenary hack, at worst a useful idiot. He has a pedigree with normal actual democrats after all. But anything is possible. Didn’t he make zillions off the Bernie campaign because of screwy media contracts?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ja’Vanka pushed Pence in over Christie, right? And they were big Flynn boosters, I’m 90% sure. And hasn’t there been talk that they (he?) brought Manafort in? Christie’s a lot of things, but he ain’t stupid or malleable like Pence.
Now there is a celebrity factoid of which I was unaware. Paycheck is the “take this job and shove it” guy, right?
dww44
@Villago Delenda Est:LOL!
@Eunicecycle: thanks
@A Ghost To Most: thanks
@Nicole: Thanks, but I was blocked from even reading the piece so I googled him and figured out the lay of the land with Mr. Abernathy. That’s a great comment you shared.
Major Major Major Major
@A Ghost To Most: “fascism is just like homosexuality, and I know how much you libtards love those homos. How do you like my impeccable logic now, libtard?”
ETA did he talk about how we want to “put men in women’s bathrooms” but don’t want to ‘normalize’ 60 million economically anxious white people?
Nicole
@dww44: Another commenter complimented Herr Goebbels on the piece. Heh.
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
That 10 million dollars in campaign funds- WHOSE ORIGINS CANNOT BE CONFIRMED.
I’m just sayin’.
efgoldman
@A Ghost To Most:
I’m not getting out of the boat. Is this for real, or a poor effort at parody and/or snark?
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
This entire crew is not real bright, but they are real evil. That means that whatever the situation they will find the worst answer and that is all they will find. They will think it is the only answer, because it is the worst. The question in their tiny little minds is, always and only, “Does this cause the most pain to the most people, and pay off our rich owners?” It is quite possible that the order of the two parts of that are reversed.
Major Major Major Major
@rikyrah: don’t be silly, I’m sure it was all $27 donations from the REAL democratic base.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah:
Which means that this piece of shit bill is so bad that even some of the 27% crazies have bailed on this thing. Wow.
A Ghost to Not
@efgoldman:
Average schtick for this goober.
satby
@Nicole: I’m always outraged that they say the Drumpf supporters have “Midwestern values” . I’m a Midwestern person, and so is rikyrah (and many others), and those Drumpfers don’t hold any values we do!
Fuck the lazy assholes who write that shit.
debbie
@A Ghost To Most:
Doubt Nick wants to hear that hello.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Villago Delenda Est:
The notion of Pence in prison and discussions of his use of the word “mother” may be the worst sort of slash fiction ever contemplated.
feebog
@rikyrah:
Instead of insisting, over and over, that pre-existing conditions will be preserved in the bill, how about pointing to the language in the bill and explaining exactly how this will work. Because everyone else in America who has looked at it thinks otherwise.
Major Major Major Major
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: at least he wouldn’t have to worry about being in a room with an unaccompanied woman.
Westyny
@rikyrah: There it is.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@A Ghost To Most:
Colbert’s admitted most of his comedy is outing these “Seriously outraged conservatives” as actors they are. Of course Colbert invited Spicer like Colbert when on the Bill O’Rielly show it make it clear there is no difference between a comedian like Colder and these “serious” commentators.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Christie put her husband’s father in jail. It was personal. And those hard feelings were something for man(overboard)afort to exploit.
They say they wanted a balanced ticket. They didn’t want TWO loud-mouthed, crass bullies. So Parson Pence would be a nice contrast. They saw it like JFK picking LBJ.
I get the feeling they are trying to make manafort their scapegoat. Pence not speaking his name, tRump claiming he was just a minor player, etc. They’re hoping they can toss him into the fire and get away unburned.
JoeSo
@jimmiraybob: I remember evangelical Ralph Reed being on Bill Maher not too long ago and being able to pronounce Natalia Veselnitskaya’s name quite easily when Bill struggled to pronounce it. He also defended her and downplayed the meeting with Trump Jr.
Nicole
@satby: Oh, I agree. I grew up in Central PA (the Alabama section, according to James Carville) and am a liberal through-and-through. But a lot of my classmates weren’t and some of the ones I still know aren’t.
I attended a really good lecture on microaggressions (hosted by my son’s school, yay!) where the person giving it, Dr. Wing Sue, said the only really effective way to combat racism is chronic, positive contact with people of other backgrounds, from a young age. And a lot of white folk are very eager to sequester ourselves into our little enclaves so we don’t ever have to do that. I think it’s fear. I think the Midwestern whites who don’t fit Abernathy’s idea of a “normal American” are the less fearful ones.
Even at this lecture, here in godless, screaming liberal NYC, the majority of the parents from the school who attended were not white. But we white parents were the ones who really needed to hear it.
Gin & Tonic
@germy:
That won’t go well. Paul Fucking Manafort is lots of things, almost all of them repulsive, but he is nobody’s patsy. If they try to throw him under the bus, he will make sure the bus explodes in a massive fireball, killing or maiming everybody in a 2-mile radius.
Tazj
@dww44: I was able to read it in the Dallas News, just googled the article. I think they allow you 2 free articles. I don’t have a subscription to the Post, though I should.
To me it read as as another criticism of Hollywood elitism and how they can’t relate to “real Americans” like those in his Ohio town. He compares George Clooney’s bashing of Steve Bannon to Stephen Colbert’s embrace of Sean Spicer and reasons that Colbert’s was the superior approach and thinks that everyone will come to feel the same way in the future.
I had never heard of this writer before and just skimmed a few articles that he has written. He’s a conservative and quite the Trump apologist. He’s written the typical defenses of Trump and his supporters. Trump tells it like it is and they only care about jobs and the opioids crisis. Well, if that’s true,he’s failed them but this guy doesn’t think so.
germy
@Gin & Tonic: It gives me hope.
schrodingers_cat
@dww44: Use the incognito tab if you are using Chrome. Its piece of garbage anyway, why read it?
Lee
@dww44:
Here ya go. Hopefully it won’t go into moderation.
Gary Abernathy is publisher and editor of the (Hillsboro, Ohio) Times-Gazette.
Hillsboro, Ohio
Across southern Ohio, northern Kentucky and other parts of the Cincinnati media market, actor George Clooney’s father was a celebrity long before his now-famous son. In the 1960s and ’70s, Nick Clooney hosted variety shows out of Cincinnati — in the days when the city was a hotbed of local programming that was syndicated live to Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis and other locales — before becoming a top-rated local news anchor and a fine journalist.
Consequently, local residents watched George grow up and take a special pride in his success. George has always shared his father’s ability to project a sense of warmth and sincerity through the screen, along with a fair dose of “aw, shucks” Midwestern humility. The famous Clooney family — which also includes George’s aunt, the late singer Rosemary Clooney — felt like neighbors even to area residents who never personally met them.
So it’s been puzzling to watch George’s immersion into liberal politics over the years. Most people here have always written that off as the usual thing that happens when people go to Hollywood. But it could be that George grew up with left-of-center philosophies; his dad eventually ran as a Democrat for Congress in northern Kentucky about a decade ago (and was soundly defeated). Either way, George Clooney’s liberal activism jarringly contrasts with the region that produced him.
The famous Clooney modesty appears sadly to have faded somewhat with George, based on his comments at this month’s Toronto International Film Festival about ousted White House adviser Stephen K. Bannon. Clooney said this about an old Bannon screenplay: “Now, if he’d somehow managed miraculously to get that thing produced, he’d still be in Hollywood, still making movies and licking my a– to get me to do one of his stupid-a– screenplays.” So much for Midwestern humility.
The imaginary world so convincingly created by Hollywood actors, producers and directors such as Clooney seems to be easily confused by Hollywood’s elite with the real one. The latest example was this week’s Emmy Awards show, another typical Trump-bashing spectacle that barely beat last year’s historically low ratings. Of course, the low viewership has nothing to do with how politicized awards shows have become, according to their defenders. Sure.
According to liberal critics, the lowlight of the Emmy show was a cameo by Sean Spicer, the former White House press secretary, who did a riff with host Stephen Colbert making light of Spicer’s famous argument with the media over the size of President Trump’s inauguration crowd. Why was this so wrong? Because it served to “normalize” Spicer.
One example reported by The Post’s Morning Mix came from Kelly Dittmar, an assistant professor at Rutgers University, who tweeted, “Do NOT cheer for Sean Spicer. This is how we normalize & excuse unethical, racist, sexist, etc. behavior.”
That’s the same warning we’ve been hearing about Trump and anyone associated with him since the campaign. Trump and friends cannot be treated like human beings because doing so will “normalize” them. Translation: The anti-Trump citizenry is “normal,” while Trump and millions of Americans who support him are “abnormal.”
In recent history, herculean efforts have been made to ensure that society “normalized” behaviors that were once labeled, sometimes even by the scientific community, as outside the norms of social conduct and comportment. In many cases — on homosexuality, most notably — this has resulted in welcome understanding and acceptance. But so far to the left has the pendulum swung that today the only acceptable reference to abnormality is if it involves an association with Donald J. Trump.
We can all only hope that in a civilized world, society will become so tolerant as to recognize that Trump Supporter Syndrome (TSS) is not an illness at all. It is perfectly normal behavior that is merely misunderstood by those who do not share it. Those with TSS should be loved and accepted, not ostracized and shunned.
In fact, Colbert should be admired for his brave outreach to Spicer. Stephen, some — including many of your Hollywood friends — may ridicule you. But history will prove you right.
Unlike Colbert, our favorite son, George Clooney, clearly exhibits a bias against those with TSS. But George, too, will become enlightened someday, as will others. And despite our differences, George, in southern Ohio we’re still proud of your success. Say hi to your dad.
manyakitty
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: My question, too! Wilmer is probably a useful idiot, but TD isn’t. He also worked for Hillary in 2008. (I think)
SFAW
Traitors all the way down. And some of them are even Turtles, I’d bet.
Major Major Major Major
@manyakitty: Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Dunno about Hillary 2008. Kind of makes you think he might have allegiance to the party.
The Pale Scot
If you google the article you can get access, or use private browsing.
googled
jimmiraybob
@JoeSo: In my opinion, the American Evangelical-Russia coziness is not mainstream enough. This is probably a key connection given the proliferation of evangelicals in Congress, governorships and state legislatures. I guess too many are afraid of the “Why do you hate Christianity” end-of-conversation ploy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
good overview– so Manafort used Jared to get Flynn into the inner circle (and Putin used Manafort…), now whispy, whispery Jared thinks he can get rid of Manafort, and Manafort has the goods on, probably among other things, the Russo-Fredo summit of June, 2016. Sounds plausible to me.
I want trump exposed first and foremost, of course, but I would love to see Jared get absolutely flattened by all this
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Sounds like Devine’s as good at his job as Shrummy.
Yutsano
@Ruckus: “When I’m trying to figure out the motivations of someone, I play a little game. What’s the worst reason this person has for doing what they’re doing?”
(Side note: glad that fucker finally ded.)
Roger Moore
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
You know who else running in the 2016 election never released his taxes…
The Golux
@dww44:
If you are using Firefox, right-click (or whatever the equivalent of right-click is if you’re using a Mac) on the link and select “Open in a new private window”.
Brachiator
Hmmm, So Pence is the Manchurian Candidate. Or is that Putinian Candidate. Previously, there had been some chatter that if somehow Trump were to be removed, the country at least would have a solid, if emotionally and religiously rigid replacement who could smoothly fill in and keep the country moving along.
Now we gotta find a way to throw all the bums out.
efgoldman
@Nicole:
The WWC who are the worst racists and xenophobes inevitably live where they have never, or hardly ever, interacted with a POC.
Amir Khalid
@A Ghost To Most:
He didn’t just complain about George Clooney being liberal. He also complained about George’s dad Nick being one too, and raising George that way.
Fair Economist
@Major Major Major Major:
And all of those lost. Hmm….
manyakitty
@Major Major Major Major: Fair enough. Not sure where I remember that from, but no matter. Dude still comes across as sketchy AF.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m not picking favorites, I want the entire gang behind locked bars. For however long it takes to realize the errors of their ways. And then another 30 yrs to contemplate their navels.
rikyrah
@germy:
Of course, they are…
but….uh uh uh…
Nope.
Talk about a muthaphucka who would NEVER
‘take one for the team’…
That’s Manafort.
rikyrah
@Gin & Tonic:
I share your sentiment…but, didn’t nearly express it as well. :)
schrodingers_cat
Is this Abernathy a real person or has DougJ managed to get himself hired as an op-ed columnist?
A Ghost To Most
@Amir Khalid: True.
I really hate these people, and more than anything, I hate having to work in an office full of these people. Retirement can’t come soon enough (11 months).
burnspbesq
@Gin & Tonic:
Maybe, but it’s just as likely that he will (1) choose suicide by FBI or (2) surprise all of us and cling to outmoded notions of omertà.
Kay
I love the Fox and Friends couch. The fake listening poses are so crazily exaggerated- “here I am LISTENING…”
Ella in New Mexico
@dww44: Just clear your history before you go to the site, you can read their stuff for foerever
@The Golux: even better
Beating paywalls: it’s not rocket science. ;-)
debbie
@Kay:
Just looking at their forced posture is enough to make my back hurt.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: California passed a law, on Gov. Brown’s desk, to require taxes to have primary ballot access.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: He has allegiance to cashing checks, period. Houses on Block Island aren’t cheap.
dww44
@The Golux: Thanks. I tried that and it worked. This old doggie just learned a new trick!
Nicole
@efgoldman: It’s the big shame of NYC- we have the most segregated schools in the country. A friend of mine just went back to teaching full-time. Her last NYC public school, one of ones you have to test for to get into, was overwhelmingly Asian and white. Her current one, which is not one of the “desirable” public schools, is entirely black and Latino.
So while I posted that commenter’s dig at Abernathy’s trumpeting of “Midwestern values” I’m not blind to how deeply racism is embedded into the NYC experience, either.
Gin & Tonic
@burnspbesq:
It is to laugh. The only allegiance Manafort has is to Manafort. He’d sell you his grandmother if he could make a buck on the deal.
Anonymous At Work
Why is this news to people? Trump’s first action for people in his orbit is to make them prove their personal loyalty to him. Sean Spicer was the archetype; he was ordered, first thing, to blatantly lie to the press corps about inauguration crowd sizes. Part of that was Trump’s insecurity and need for constant ego-fluffing, but a big part of it was to break Spicer of any independence or credibility.
What makes people think that Pence didn’t get the same treatment as well. “I’m using Flynn as a cutout to sell some stuff under-the-table to the Russians so they can approve a Trump Tower in Moscow. Pence, coordinate with Flynn and then brief me on it.” Now, Pence is party to a conspiracy, obstructing justice, etc. Wham-bam-thank-you-maam
SatanicPanic
@dww44: oh god I hate that guy. He’s always selling that corn-pone “shucks we’re just simply people who have REAL CONCERNS not like you fancy city people”. It’s such phony crap. He spends the whole column whining about George Clooney, and calling him arrogant, and then ends with “but we’re still proud of you!”. I dunno if it’s like a midwest thing to shit on someone and then say “we’re proud of you”, but it’s positively obnoxious.
Lyrebird
@satby: Thanks for saying it! I’m not a Midwesterner, so it wouldn’t be my place to say, but the only “values” that would motivate a Trump vote would be 1) valuing one race as above others, 2) valuing the suffering of children and adults dying of preventable conditions & wanting more of that to happen, or I guess 3) valuing misogyny very highly. I see nothing here about friendliness, or grilled sausages, or apple pie.
Isn’t Omnes a Midwesterner too? People get grumpy sometimes at the lengths he’ll go to to stand on principle, but I can’t imagine anyone arguing that he (or you) doesn’t have them! ugh.
dww44
@efgoldman:Here, well below the Mason Dixon, the WWC has always interacted with African Americans. One could hardly not have interacted with them, but it was true, less so now, that they don’t generally live in the same neighborhoods.
A lot of white flight in this majority-minority county. We’ve been losing population but 3 of the surrounding counties have been gaining. Perhaps that is indeed the real issue; we are always running away from each other, albeit we say we are running away from crime or to better school districts, or if one remains, to private schools.
P.S. thanks to the commenters who’ve provided me a plethora of ways to bypass paywalls.
quakerinabasement
I did not guess that Big Chicken’s vindictive streak ran quite this deep. But then, Christie is a man of great, um, depth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and Vladimir Putin is a real billionaire, who tells other real billionaires what to do. Among his other charms.
I wonder if Keri Russell does side gigs. Could we gofundme enough to get her to just stand under a streetlight a few times across the street from Manafort’s house, calmly gazing up at his windows (that is a reference to a relatively popular television program, for those who don’t watch The Americans)
Stacy
Ed Pence, Mike’s brother, is VP and GM of Cummins that is in partnership with KAMAZ, a heavy engine maker owned by Rostec and Sber Bank.
trollhattan
@Kay:
Just goes to how how good li’l Tucker is, with his concerned puppy expression he conveys the same Serious Guy demeanor sans special furniture.
Ella in New Mexico
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
A. Because there is actual criminal activity in the Manafort case that leads all the way to the top of the Trump cabal, who by the way is the fucking President of the United States and may have highjacked an election to get there.
B. Because there were analysis of Devine back a while ago, and other people who work for a variety of American and foreign interests, including some we’d all rather no American consultants work with, but do, legally, as long as they declare themselves legally and don’t break laws. Yes, he’s been for sale to other foreign interests, just like a shit ton of other folks, good and bad, eg., David Axelrod. Devine is a garden variety political hack, who saw an opportunity to cash in on a well financed and somewhat naive potential rising star, but there is no indication a this time that anything nefarious went down.
C. Because the primary is over and Bernie lost and the election is over and Clinton lost and Trump is a fucking criminal and not everyone has a deeply disturbed, personal hatred of all things Sanders that cause them to obsessively perseverate on things that don’t matter anymore and you’ll never get like Gollum for the Precious.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: it’s both. He doesn’t work for republicans. He’s a shitty mercenary consultant class liberal. ETA a la the Phil Ochs song.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She killed a
guymore people than I can count, you know.Who’d-a thunk Felicity was really a cold killer?
SatanicPanic
@Ella in New Mexico:
OUCH. I have to agree though- I don’t even like the guy, never liked the guy, but sometimes the Sanders hate here is over the top.
Miss Bianca
@satby: Dear Abernathy, I am a Midwesterner too, and my Midwestern values of plain speaking are making me say, “fuck you and your fluffing of racist, sexist, xenophobic white assholedom as “Midwestern values”. Signed, Miss Bianca
Felonius Monk
@dww44: I read the piece. It is stupidly inane. When I read it there were no comments yet.
ETA: It was basically “You libtards better watch out. Real ‘Murkins gonna eat your lunch.”
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Nicole: This was a really good read, echoing your points:
Note: those of you that frequent LGM, you may remember when there was a White Fragility explosion in the comments because one of the few commenters of color, dared point out that Racism, in his lived experience, is just as bad in the NorthEast as it is in the South. Which is exactly the point this author confirms.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca:
Just added your comment to the comments of that article (per Miss Bianca)
No Drought No More
From advantages gained as a child courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer tit, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome warmly to our reality show the next President of the United States, the right honorable Paul Ryan.
Get used to it.
Bonus question of the week: just what did the U.S. intelligence community already know about the various Trump-Russia connections before 2016; when did they know it; and, last but not least, who- inside or outside of government- did they then inform of their findings? After all, Trump did not suddenly appear on their radar the day he announced his candidacy- he’d been cultivating ties to Russia for years if not decades.
MomSense
@jimmiraybob:
This. I was going to say that this is a religious/white nationalist movement and Putin has been supporting it.
catclub
@Starfish:
Pence is the right age to have watched Hogan’s Heroes as a kid and learn the ways of Sgt Schultz.
Fair Economist
@Ella in New Mexico:
What about that makes it any less likely that Devine was working for the Russian flunkies who had been paying him?
Hal
I have this distinct feeling Trump is going to resign and leave Pence and the GOP to fend for himself. I also think one of the big discoveries Mueller will make is that Trump finances are a house of cards, and if that information ever became public, the entirety of the reputation Trump has built will vaporize and he will do everything in his power to avoid that from happening.
Ella in New Mexico
@Fair Economist: its just not on the radar given the GIGANTIC issue in the Trump Cabal. If it turns up Russia spread its dirty little fingers around more broadly, as some reports say they did, it will touch lots of elected and unelected people, and at that point, the legalities will be assessed.
Some people, however, would rather bitch about how Sanders dared to run against Clinton in the Democratic primary until their last breath…Because that’s what the original comment was about.
Kay
@trollhattan:
I remind myself that FOX is a sewer of a workplace and they’re all being harassed and threatened on a daily basis, which is why they all seem completely insane.
Ella in New Mexico
@SatanicPanic:
Yes, it is and has been since the Primary. For some it almost seems like an obsession…or a profession…;-)
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Roger Moore:
…and claimed everything was rigged, everybody but him was corrupt and only he has the answers…
Starfish
Twitter is eating CNN alive right now, and it is so delicious.
Here is a CNN person defending CNN. Read the comments.
Here is Cillizza being an idiot. Read the comments.
Yutsano
@Hal:
Anyone who has been paying attention to Dolt45 since the 90s has known this. Between the sweet tax breaks real estate developers get (seriously, one of the best reforms the tax code could get is changing the carryback/carryover rules for RE*) and the multiple business bankruptcies it’s been clear the man has been living off his name for a long time.
*This is one of many. Changing the mortgage interest deduction rules would help as well.
A Ghost To Most
@Ella in New Mexico: I’m not convinced that Bernie wasn’t put up to it by the Russians (cf. Tad Devine)
SatanicPanic
@Ella in New Mexico: don’t get me wrong, I find the dude highly annoying. But I don’t care to poop on him and if he had won the nomination he would have been my new favorite politician, at least, I would have claimed he was.
MCA1
@satby: Agreed. It’s even more annoying given that, while he may not have been born in the Midwest, our immediate former president was educated in and spent his entire professional career prior to 2004 in the capital of the Midwest, and exhibited all of the more positive of the stereotypical “Midwestern” character traits. Humble, compassionate, down-to-earth, hard working, honorable, honest.
Kay
Taking Bernie (specifically) out of it, if Russiagate is big it probably wasn’t limited to Trump. People in those campaigns knew about it. The Clinton campaign certainly did. If it’s big (again, IF) it will turn out a lot of people knew about it and one or more of those people could be involved with it, in some fashion.
That’s a big reason it bothers me so much- my guess is we’ll find out voters were the last to know. We know the Dem congressional campaigns knew it was happening, when it was happening. Political media had to know too- there’s no way Clinton’s team knew about it and congressional campaigns knew about it and political media DIDN’T.
MomSense
@Kay:
The professional left podcast hosts call it “the crotch couch” because they always have women with skirts so short they hitch all the way up when they sit down. It’s so gross.
Kay
They could find out there was Russian interference in the GOP primary, or the Dem primary. That’s certainly possible.
We have been told next to nothing about this. We’ve all sort of settled on Trump In The Library with the Lead Pipe but that’s a very narrow reading of possible outcomes.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Ella in New Mexico:
He and Jane are both the subject of an open FBI investigation, and I think it’s safe to assume the FBI has their tax returns. They didn’t release their taxes, they didn’t file their FEC personal disclosures, and they never reconciled the foreign donations to the campaign, including that $10M mystery donation that has never been explained. If anything screams Russian money laundering, given what we know now about Manafort spreading money around, it’s that fucking campaign bullshit, yet we’re just supposed to shrug that off? The fraud is still out there making life very difficult for Democrats and promoting himself, likely to run again. He may have lost the primary, but until he goes away I will continue to shine whatever light I can on him.
MomSense
@Kay:
I don’t find it plausible that Russia hacked the White House, Pentagon, State Dept, Podesta, DNC, RNC, DCCC, Utility companies, 39 state elections systems – but didn’t hack the NYT and other media companies. They knew. Hell Harwood even said that all the journalists he spoke with knew that the State Dept. has separate systems altogether for classified communications and yet they didn’t explain that at all in their obsessive coverage of her “email scandal”.
Faithful Lurker
I grew up in the deep South, raised by rabidly bigoted parents and now live in a rural county in western Washington state. I have heard racial comments here that would have shocked my father, Oregon was worse. And don’t even ask about Michigan. I lived there for decades and was constantly amazed at the ugly racial hatred expressed by the residents.
WaterGirl
@Starfish:
Wow. If he really doesn’t know the answer to that question, he is as stupid as the Kissing Gourami – the fish the pet store guy told me about: you have to buy a group of them at once because they are too stupid to eat on their own – they only survive by seeing the food go into the mouths of one of their fellow fish, and they think, hey, I’ll try that.
Lurking Canadian
@rikyrah: Benen’s headline is misleading. 24% in favor is not “weak support”. It’s actually “near-unanimous howling opposition”
Jeffro
I just wanna wrap up work this afternoon, go home, and read Hillz’ book…that’s it, that’s my Friday evening. And I’m ok with that.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MomSense:
Remember the pictures of Putin and his crew in the Kremlin toasting Trump with champagne the night of the election, then releasing those pictures to the world? Now we know why.
Tracy Ratcliff
@dww44: I opened the op-ed in a private window to bypass the paywall. I admist I skimmed the op-ed, nothing much new there but slamming George Clooney for some reason. As of 1:30 pm EDT, most of the comments are lefties going WTF?
Starfish
@WaterGirl: The stupidity of these big media figures just amazes me sometimes.
Kay
@MomSense:
Of course they knew. If for no other reason they knew because the Clinton campaign was complaining about it publicly. They cover congressional campaigns. The same congressional campaign staff who told the NYTimes they knew AFTER the election were probably telling political media they knew BEFORE the election.
There could be another GOP campaign in the primary who knew, actually. There could be a GOP campaign in the primary who knew and were happy about it because they thought they’d emerge the victor and Clinton would be weakened by it.
All sorts of possibilities. Was it McCain who said there are a “centipede’s worth of shoes left to drop”?
I have a very simple demand. I want to know what happened. We have been given NO information.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Every time I see him on TV, usually on the Hayes show, where the only check is Hayes’ adoring gaze, he goes out of his way to say the Democratic Pah-ty, of which he is still not a member, is a fayl-yuh. That’s not about last year. That’s not about Hillary Clinton. And I don’t see how that helps preserve the ACA. Nothing would make me happier than to stop talking about the Wilmer-turds he leaves floating in the Democrats’ pool. Any of his apologists who can put a rhetorical diaper on the bellowing, sanctimonious old fool, you have my full support.
MomSense
@Jeffro:
Sounds lovely to me. I just bought it on audible so I can listen, sip wine, and knit.
piratedan
All this ties in to what Adam was posting (and some of us were openly speculating) is that this is essentially a Russian sponsored government… They are all dirty and/or complicit (not sure there’s much difference between the two)… the reasons are out there for us to connect the dots…
white christian evangelicals.. apparently they’ve been co-opted by racists or have bought into this prosperity gospel bullshit or both. As such, easily persuaded that the most ethical president since Jimmy Carter was somehow the anti-christ (or at least their Mammon loving white dude with beard and halo hagiography). So they decided to back a sexist, racist sonofbitch because his opponent actually gave a shit about poor people…. can’t have that. Plus, a kick in the shins to black people, they need to know their place…
GOP mainstream – I think this all comes down to the usual suspects, power and money… they want to control the money, which gives them the power… to not actually do anything but to prevent anyone else from doing anything. They are the party of the rich and racism is a trait to leveraged into votes.
The Media – Suspect that there are a few journos and more than a couple of editors and News directors that are on the payroll… as much as I’d like to believe that rage clicks and controversy sells, you had the mother of all corruption standing up as an erstwhile candidate and he was given a pass. Why? I’d be looking quite closely at who doles out assignments to whom. Who is hiring who to be on TV? Those folks are the ones helping Putin frame the narrative.
Money drives all of this, using people’s biases and failings to subvert the process but also create the frame and tilt the story to fit….
There are times where this kind of treason used to end up with jail time, even execution… me, I just want these fuckers in jail and the truly difficult questions answered and other people to figure out…
1) how do we go about fixing this?
2) How do we help people who’ve fallen into this trap, escape?
I’m not concerned with victory laps, I’m more concerned on how we move on s a country and heal ourselves…
MomSense
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I certainly do. The treason runs deep and wide and it’s going to get really ugly before it hopefully gets better. We do need to be prepared to hit the streets and we should all be training in non violent civil disobedience. We have to be impeccable in our actions.
@Kay:
We know they hacked candidates in state races. We know there was collusion in Florida. Lindsey Graham said he was hacked. I think people are going to be shocked when the scale of this is revealed.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: LOL, never heard of kissing gourami! I’ve got a couple of dwarf gouramis, and they’re the most interactive fish in my tank, meaning that when they see me coming, they act excited at the prospect of being fed, which is pretty smart for a fish!
WaterGirl
@Lurking Canadian: I know! Yesterday called something “fibs” when they were flat-out lies. It irritates me.
Felonius Monk
@WaterGirl:
Perhaps Cilizza is vying for the title “Stupidest Guy at CNN”.
MomSense
@piratedan:
I also want some redress. If this whole election was illegitimate then I want the fruits of the poisonous tree to be composted. Executive Orders, laws, Supreme Court [in]Justice – erased.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Exactamundo. He won’t fucking shut up, but he’s got a white penis, so isn’t held to any standard at all. How can Broseph Hayes never ask him about that FBI investigation, or about what he knew about Devine’s past, yet still hired him? How can he not be asked why he won’t commit to being a Democrat? How can that be justified in a world where “it would irresponsible not to speculate” is actually the media mantra?
Kay
@MomSense:
It feels like there was almost a decision made not to cover it. I don’t think that was a conspiracy- I think it was a lack of imagination. This hasn’t happened before so it can’t be happening now.
MCA1
@Felonius Monk: That’s about right. The unmitigated gall to whine about people whom his side of the political world has been labeling as unAmerican, unpatriotic, and lawless for 50 years refusing to see his bigotry and fascist tendencies as “normal” is particularly infuriating. He doesn’t understand the distinction between “normal” and “normalize,” either. One’s an adjective, the other a verb, and I don’t just mean there’s a grammatical difference.
Not to mention the horribly flawed logic underpinning the whole fucking argument. Calling for Sean Spicer to be shamed instead of celebrated = not treating him as human? The fuck? Fascism is the same as homosexuality? No one’s denying you or any Trumpster their basic humanity. No one’s saying you should be imprisoned for wearing your MAGA hat. We’re just calling you shitty humans, and suggesting you be held accountable for your shitty human actions instead of celebrating them. Period.
Ella in New Mexico
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Ummm, well, sorta, but…it’s in response to Trump’s campaign manager in Vermont who filed a complaint with the FBI over Jane’s college fails. Brady Toensing, “a partner in a law firm headed by his mother Victoria Toensing and his stepfather Joseph DiGenova”. Remember those folks? Not really anyone I want to run with in terms of integrity…
Jane may have bungled her stuff with the college, but that certainly doesn’t mean Russia was involved.
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/07/10/lawyer-behind-sanders-allegations-has-history-of-complaints
But you must have your Holy Grail, I suppose.
Citizen Alan
@Ella in New Mexico:
That’s actually kind of hilarious when I read this and then contemplate all the Bernie Busters I have to deal with on a daily basis who /still/ insist that the primary was rigged in Hillary’s favor.
Gretchen
@Kay: The Professional Left podcast calls the F&F couch “the crotch couch” “Here I am listening with my miniskirt barely covering. “
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I really like the kissing gourami, in spite of their stupidity. (Assuming the pet store fish guy knew what he was talking about!) If I recall correctly, what looks like kissing is really some sort of aggressive move. Either way, when I see someone who is beyond stupid, that’s the image I get.
El Caganer
@quakerinabasement: “I am large, I contain multitudes….”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Ella in New Mexico:
If you read any of the Vermont local investigative journalists, you’d know more than what you think you know. Seven Days and VTDigger have been reporting on Jane and Burlington College in depth for two years. You’d know that Trump’s campaign manager found out from public records how the college got in trouble, brought it to the attention of the US Attorney, and the US Attorney recommended that a bank fraud investigation be opened, which the FBI did. The investigative journalists started digging from there, and have confirmed through interviews and digging through the college records the many ways in which she’s potentially in a lot of trouble. I know Berniestans love to say it’s all made up political hard ball, but that’s their fantasy.
MomSense
@Kay:
For some, yes I think they didn’t believe it. I don’t think that is true for all of the news/media outlets.
Matt McIrvin
@dww44: There was Dick Gregory’s remark about Northern vs. Southern racism: “Down South, they don’t care how close I am as long as I don’t get too big, and up North they don’t care how big I get as long as I don’t get too close.” I think it still applies, to some extent.
Just one more canuck
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: “I believe in coincidences- I just don’t trust coincidences”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Matt McIrvin:
There’s also the thing about in the North, they’ll work together but won’t live together, and in the South they’ll live together but won’t work together. Sounds about right.
Gretchen
@Gretchen: I see MomSense got there first. Enjoy your wine, book and knitting!
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
But are they running as Democrat taxes or Republican taxes?
TenguPhule
@dww44:
It was horrible. Be grateful you didn’t lose any portion of your life reading it.
That asshole is definitely asking for an ass-kicking.
germy
@Kay:
“A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words.”
– Dr. Winston O’Boogie
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Also, if the VT Trump campaign manager knew all of this information, why was it never used against St. Bernard? Oh, maybe he was Putin’s useful idiot doing the GOP’s work for them? Wilmer was the most unvetted candidate in history, and Trump always had his back by saying poor poor Bernie was being cheated by Hillary. The Crooked Jane narrative would have gotten in the way of the Crooked Hillary narrative, because it was actually true. Anyone who doesn’t see how it all went down is being willfully blind.
Ruckus
@SatanicPanic:
I’ve seen it other places but from my experience it is more prevalent in the midwest. It’s also done in the south but with a slightly more exaggerated style, which is obvious unless you are asleep or really stupid.
Shalimar
@manyakitty: There were a long list of horrible people working for Hillary in 2008 who didn’t return in 2016. Tad Devine stands out because he wasn’t able to join that team due to being busy in Ukraine doing far worse.*
*I have never heard he was offered a position and had to turn it diwn, just agreeing with you that he would have fit right in.
El Caganer
@Ruckus: Bless your heart.
Shana
@Ruckus: And after they’ve taken a whole raft of the GOP leadership with them. Looking at you McConnell for blocking any release of info about Russian ratfcking during the campaign.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Oh Kay,
My mind goes to a lot of places with this.
but, I hold onto Dolt45 because I don’t want to be accused of being ‘ out there’.
Ruckus
@SatanicPanic:
No, it really isn’t. He has one positive idea, with no understanding of what to do with it. He rained bullshit on an election for which he was given more than a fair shot, and he lost. And then mostly bad mouthed his opponent that beat him by a fair margin. He could have helped his idea grow and possibly prosper but his tactics are third grade at best. As an old man behind him by not that far my take is that he has not just a little, but actually nothing to show for his life and he’s doing his best to prove it.
Ruckus
@Hal:
I’m sure drumpf is evil enough to do that, I’m not sure he’s enough in charge of his faculties to. Now someone on his payroll may have the balls to tell him that’s the safest thing for him to do, but as every one of them sold their souls, however small they were to begin with, for what can not be all that much money, I’d doubt that they would.
tobie
@MomSense:
This still gets my goat. Clinton mentioned several times during the campaign that she used the classified cable system for classified messages. The press knew this, and yet they chose to hide the existence of a classified system to make BUT HER EMAILS seem so much more nefarious.
Nora
@MomSense: Damn right! You don’t get to engage in a criminal enterprise and then keep the profits of your criminality. Set the clock back and start over. That includes “Justice” Gorsuch.
Ruckus
@Faithful Lurker:
It’s not just every state in the union, it’s in humanity the world over. Some places are better, some worse but humans have or can easily find blame to spread around for whatever ails them or whatever is perceived to ail them.
Ruckus
@Felonius Monk:
It’s quite possible that he is still vying for the title, but he is stupid enough not to realize that he already won it. Maybe he’s going for the insurance vote, just to make it undeniably unanimous.
Ruckus
@El Caganer:
Why thank you very much!
Citizen_X
@Lee: Oh, for fucks’ sake. He’s basically complaining that liberals are pathologizing “conservatism” (instead of fascism), so what does he do? He talks about Clooney growing up “normal” for several paragraphs, then in the very first mention of politics, says that somehow, Clooney mutated into a liberal! He’s pathologizing liberalism.
Once again, it’s projection all the way down.
stinger
@piratedan:
Plus, the head of government, like the head of the family, must be a man. Prosperity gospel (aka Mammon worship), racism, and sexism — the hallmarks of today’s fundamental evangelicalism.
stinger
@MomSense: This 100%.
J R in WV
@jimmiraybob:
I’m always willing to answer the question “Why do you hate Christianity?” for anyone. In depth.
First, modern American religions calling themselves Christian do not actually follow the teachings of Christ – they follow the teachings of a guy named Paul who never met Christ. Paul contradicts most of Christ’s teachings and people who follow the parts of the bible Paul authored or edited tend to be full of hate, prejudice and fear. Paulists will ask “Why di you hate Christianity?” but Christians do not.
Second, from the council of Nicea in 325 AD to the modern era, Christianity used violence, torture, and fire to dissuade people with widely varying beliefs about religion to change their beliefs and adopt the official doctrine of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, or be burned or pressed to death, or otherwise rendered incapable of holding an opinion differing from prescribed belief. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition is a funny line from a movie now, but for centuries people DID expect the Inquisition, and were taken prisoner and tortured for as long as the healers of the Church could keep them alive. In the end they were usually burned alive, rarely strangled just before being set aflame as an act of mercy.
Third, in modern American Christianity, people are taught that greed and hate for those outside one’s specific groupthink is a wholesome belief system congruent with the teaching of Jesus Christ. This is of course anathema to actual Christian teachings, and is a great reason to hate some virulent strains of so-called Christianity which are in fact heresy to real Christians.
I’m not at all sure that the Christ of Biblical teaching, which is largely built on mythology, actually existed. But the teachings that are thought to spring from his ministry do exist, and are mostly completely ignored by Evangelistic, Fundamentalist and Prosperity Gospel churches of today.
They all forget that Jesus drove the money-changers and philistines from the Temple. They ignore that he taught people to care for the stranger, to feed the hungery, to care for the sick. Repulsive immoral greed-heads telling people it doesn’t matter what you do in life as long as you ask Jesus to take you into his bosom at least once in your life, best at the very end, no matter what crimes you have under your belt.
I’ll stop now, as I’m not sure people here are that interested in what I think about Christ’s teachings. But there you have it.
les
@Ella in New Mexico:
And…therefor Bernie must be clean? therefor nobody should question Bernie? Leave poor Bernie aloooone…? Sorry, legitimate questions exist; and Bernie’s endless shitting on the Democratic party is not admirable. You sound like Megyn Kelly bitching because the press is biased against Trump.
If you have proof the Bern is really progressive god, or even that he’s not soiled in any way, bring it. Whining about people raising questions is just lame.
J R in WV
@SatanicPanic:
If Bernie Sanders had lost that primary race, conceded in a timely manner, and then actually worked to help Clinton, then maybe. He didn’t even visit his claque at the convention and ask them to please shut up and listen in silence, without the duct tape “gags” and shitty signs.
He’s still fighting against the PPACA by talking about single payer, which is NOT the same thing as universal coverage, which is what everyone should be fighting for. In my book Sanders is working against health care for all as hard as he can. He is right there with Trump, Price, Sessions, and all the other folks working to keep people from voting, from knowing what’s going in in DC, and to keep health care from being universal.
What a giant turd Senator Sanders has become… truly gigantic, enormous, bigly large! And smelling worse every day he works against the Democratic party!!
glory b
@les: Plus, lots of African Americans are waiting for the explanation he needs to give us for why the votes of black people in the south don’t matter. Jeff Weaver said that in response toa question about why they weren’t concerned about the poor showing they had in the south. Rachel Maddow thought she was serving Wilmer a softball when she asked about it, and he agreed (much to her surprise). Still waiting for an apology for that (has Wilmer ever apologized for anything?).
Also,his response to policing black communities was, “We’ll get those kids off the streets and into jobs.” Tamir Rice was 12, Trayvon Martin was 16, Sandra Bland had a degree and was on her way to start a job at a college, jobs weren’t what they needed.
ruemara
@Ella in New Mexico: No one ever said Russia was involved. However, her financial dealings were about more than just a pissed off conservative. She definitely has mismanagement and influence peddling issues.
@SatanicPanic: He’s put me & mine in danger. He’s fucking around with single payer ponies and his fucktards are on the Unity commission, plotting to screw over black voters. He’s a 70+ year old benign bigot who won’t rein in his definitely ratfucking crew. So fuck him and them. I went from supportive, to concerned to actively detesting everyone involved with him. So they can take their largely white and 100% clueless selves somewhere else. They’ve earned the hate.
Tehanu
@SatanicPanic:
Not just Midwestern. In the South it takes the form of somebody saying, “Well, bless your heart.” You might even think it was nice, if you don’t know what it really means.
Chitown Kev
@MomSense: We also know that some GOPers (including the guy who told the WSJ that he was looking for Hillary’s emails, Peter Smith) info was hacked and some of that stuff was released to DC Leaks.
workworkwork
@Lyrebird: I’m a Midwesterner. I was born and raised in Michigan, like my father. My mom grew up on a farm in northern Minnesota.
Trump doesn’t support my values.
Art
Okay … I’ll play.
Assuming Trump goes down it seems to be the consensus that Pence goes down with him. I like the sound of that. Two guys I think should be nowhere near any position of power having any control over any sentient being removed from where they have power to harm literal billions strikes me as a good start.
Of course if The Donald, and Pence are out the constitution still applies and the order of succession says … let’s see … hmmm … that’s interesting … as I read it the speaker of the house gets the job. And that would be … The very Randite and WEGS: Paul Ryan.
It gets interesting when I apply this conclusion back into the original framework. If the WEGS has visions of POTUS dancing in his head is this going to change his behavior? If Trump is going down, and taking Pence with him, how would the WEGS be affected. Hmm … how would Trump go down? What body is in charge of impeachment? A: the House of Representatives. Currently run by Paul Ryan.
You don’t suppose that Ryan knowing that impeaching Trump it is going to take down Pence in the process, and (entirely coincidentally) make himself president, might change things? Naaaaaaa. It wouldn’t change a thing.
Interesting times.
Ella in New Mexico
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Oh, I know the story. The internet is a wonderful thing. Jane clearly was above her pay grade in that job, and if she crossed the lines from incompetence to criminal, well, let the chips fall where they may.
My issue is with people like you who can find less than six degrees of separation between every Issue and Bernie Sanders. The God-damned country is burning down around us as we write, and you think somehow destroying Him is the top priority.
I”d like to think there are more important things to do and a whole lotta bigger fish to fry than spend time nursing a personal grudge vendetta against-of all people- Bernie Sanders.
But hey, it’s your schtick, go for it. Just don’t complain when people judge.
Ella in New Mexico
@les: Not denying your statement, but really, why are people spending any time at all bitching about Bernie Sanders wife’s shitty decisions at a tiny college in Vermont in a thread about the Russia investigation into hacking our fucking election and VP Pence’s clear falsehoods that he knew nothing?