Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Second rate reporter says what?

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

He really is that stupid.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

“woke” is the new caravan.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: “Ungrateful” As the New “Uppity”

Open Thread: “Ungrateful” As the New “Uppity”

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According to Jelani Cobb, at the New Yorker:

Sixty years ago, Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, became a flash point in the nascent civil-rights movement when Governor Orval Faubus refused to abide by the Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education. Faubus famously deployed the state’s National Guard to prevent nine African-American students from attending classes at the high school. In the midst of the crisis, a high-school journalist interviewing Louis Armstrong about an upcoming tour asked the musician about his thoughts on the situation, prompting Armstrong to refer to the Arkansas governor as several varieties of “motherfucker.” (In the interest of finding a printable quote, his label for Faubus was changed to “ignorant plowboy.”) Armstrong, who was scheduled to perform in the Soviet Union as a cultural ambassador on behalf of the State Department, cancelled the tour—a display of dissent that earned him the scorn and contempt of legions of whites, shocked by the trumpeter’s apparent lack of patriotism.

The free-range lunacy of Donald Trump’s speech on Friday night in Alabama, where he referred to Colin Kaepernick—and other N.F.L. players who silently protest police brutality—as a “son of a bitch,” and of the subsequent Twitter tantrums in which the President, like a truculent six-year-old, disinvited the Golden State Warriors from a White House visit, illustrates that the passage of six decades has not dimmed this dynamic confronted by Armstrong, or by any prominent black person tasked with the entertainment of millions of white ones. There again is the presence of outrage for events that should shock the conscience, and the reality of people who sincerely believe, or who have at least convincingly lied to themselves, that dissenters are creating an issue where there is none. Kaepernick began his silent, kneeling protest at the beginning of last season, not as an assault against the United States military or the flag but as a dissent against a system that has, with a great degree of consistency, failed to hold accountable police who kill unarmed citizens…

Yet the belief endures, from Armstrong’s time and before, that visible, affluent African-American entertainers are obliged to adopt a pose of ceaseless gratitude—appreciation for the waiver that spared them the low status of so many others of their kind. Stevie Wonder began a performance in Central Park last night by taking a knee, prompting Congressman Joe Walsh to tweet that Wonder was “another ungrateful black multi-millionaire.” Ungrateful is the new uppity. Trump’s supporters, by a twenty-four-point margin, agree with the idea that most Americans have not got as much as they deserve—though they overwhelmingly withhold the right to that sentiment from African-Americans. Thus, the wonder is not the unhinged behavior of this weekend but rather that it took Trump so long to exploit a target as rich in potential racial resentment as wealthy black athletes who have the temerity to believe in the First Amendment…


…[O]ne of several things to which you must stipulate if you’re going to talk sensibly about the controversy that blew up over the weekend, and the ongoing controversy regarding displaced quarterback Colin Kaepernick, whose protest against police brutality is at the heart of what went on in stadiums all over the world:

1) The inclusion of a national anthem—any national anthem—in a sporting event necessarily politicizes that event. Historically, this is best demonstrated by protests at the Olympic Games. Everyone remembers Tommie Smith and John Carlos in Mexico City in 1968. But few remember Czechoslovakian gymnast Vera Caslavska, who bowed her head and looked away from the Soviet flag while sharing the top spot on the medal podium with the U.S.S.R.’s Larisa Petrik at the same Games, only two months after Soviet tanks crushed the Prague Spring revolt of 1968. When Caslavska got home, she was investigated by the new government and forbidden to travel or compete for several years.

2) The protests of today are not about the anthem or the flag or the troops, or even about Donald Trump. The protestors are high-profile African-American athletes raising awareness of how lower-profile African-Americans are often mistreated by police officers.

3) All effective protest is inconvenient and, in its own way, uncivil. The Boston Tea Party was an act of vandalism. Critics’ appeal to “find a better way to protest” is really a call for self-sabotage, and it’s a dodge that dates back to the Olive Branch Petition of 1775.

4) The wealthy athletes protesting worked much harder for their money than the president in question ever has for his…

Reader Interactions

270Comments

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I don’t understand how Trump sees this as a win.

    This might actually be one of the rare times where he’s successfully distracted us from something even worse, like the ever-approaching Russia investigators; he’s also successfully distracted his base from the failure of killing themrepealing Obamacare.

    As for the open thread, at Vox:

    A Stanford psychologist on the art of avoiding assholes

    “Not giving a shit takes the wind out of an asshole’s sails.”

  4. 4.

    Lurking Canadian

    Let us not forget, among Trump’s supporters are people who think Black Americans ought to be grateful for being kidnapped into slavery (so they got to be Americans, not Africans), for living through slavery (free room and board!) and for being freed from slavery (gift of the beneficent Republican party!)

  7. 7.

    Cacti

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I don’t understand how Trump sees this as a win. How is he interpreting this? To me, he prodded more people to speak out against him.

    The Narcissist craves attention above all else. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got angry that the NFL season was starting to take headlines away, so he picked a fight with them.

  8. 8.

    schrodingers_cat

    BTW I have heard this grateful meme before. Indian version of wingnuts like to throw that in the face of successful Muslim actors in the Hindi film industry if there dare to say something critical about politics (which Aamir Khan did, I think it was a year ago, about his concern for growing intolerance in the society or some very mild criticism on those lines)

    ETA: Add the obligatory go to Pakistan if you are not happy here.

  10. 10.

    Anne Laurie

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I don’t understand how Trump sees this as a win. How is he interpreting this?

    “People are talking about me on the TV, favorably!”

    Well, it’s favorable on Fox News, which is the only channel he watches (trusts). And even when some outlier like Kirsten Powers breaks ranks, for a narcissist like Trump, just the fact that he’s being talked about is always good news…

  13. 13.

    different-church-lady

    @Anne Laurie:

    …just the fact that he’s being talked about is always good news…

    Yes, he is probably taking pleasure in the fact that the entirety of the NFL reacted to him. He does not care whether the approved or disapproved, as long as he pushed the button and something big happened. That’s all the pleasure he needs.

  17. 17.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Donald sees it as a win because his troglodyte base loves it, and they show this by adoring the shitgibbon.

    It’s this fucking simple. He only cares about the here and now. Tomorrow is not on his radar.

  18. 18.

    japa21

    Of course it’s a win. I mean just a couple days ago he was at 40% approval on Gallup (how he got there I have no idea) and he is now at 37%. Since he was once at 35%, this is a win.

    ETA: Look at his response to the teams locking arms. He thinks that is because they are respecting the flag. So he considers it a win. He doesn’t even realize it means that even the players that don’t agree with the kneeling are uniting with the very people Trump was calling SOBs.

  19. 19.

    jl

    “He was happy—he feels like he’s clearly winning that exchange.”

    Trump obviously has has the critical faculties of a jay bird so drunk on fermented blackberries that it can’t stand up straight.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Cacti: The NFL dismissed him out of hand as a partner in the Buffalo Bills franchise. They have not forgotten Donald’s successful antitrust lawsuit against the NFL, in which Donald was awarded the spectacular sum of $3.

    Donald’s resentments run deep.

  22. 22.

    debbie

    Has anyone shared this NYT article about Obama dropping Malia off at college?

    “I dropped off Malia at college, and I was saying to Joe and Jill that it was a little bit like open-heart surgery, and I was proud that I did not cry in front of her. But on the way back, the Secret Service was all looking straight ahead pretending they weren’t hearing me as I sniffled and blew my nose. It was rough.”

    Good. Now he knows how we felt when he moved out of the White House.

  23. 23.

    lamh36

    Evening peeps.

    Yes…last day of work before vacay done! Two days off, and then off to DC with the fam this weekend for a 3 day trip to see the Nation’s Capitol!!!

    Gonna be finalizing some of our plans for the trip for the next 2 days, then on Saturday we’ll be heading to DC early that morning for a noon-ish arrival at Regan

    Couple of questions for advice…

    1) so the fam has booked 2 rooms for out trips…we’d like to have them either right next to each other or have them on the same floor. Do I need to call before hand to make sure we can get that? Or do we have to wait until we check in?

    2)Recommendations on a good not too expensive Steakhouse in the DC area, that would be good for a group of 6 for Sunday DINNER?

  24. 24.

    encephalopath

    I need to figure out a way to phrase this more delicately, but I just about had it with my fellow white people. If you are unable to voice an opinion on the anthem protests without also directly addressing the actual subject of the protests, you are being a racist fuckstick.

    You don’t get to silence the voices of black Americans by hiding behind the skirts of veterans. What the flag wavers are really doing is trying to enforce race and class hierarchy. “Those people” need to keep quiet and stay in their place. So they invent a giant straw man to attack and hold up the flag to avoid having to address when black America is patiently and persistently trying to tell them. “But the veterans” is racist bullshit, and I’m sick of hearing it.

    I want to post this to some of my clueless social media friends but it probably needs to be shorter and with less profanity.

  28. 28.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    This is a throwaway comment to launch my self-dox.

  29. 29.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @WaterGirl: Given that he’s totally missed what all the knee taking is about in the first place, it’s hardly surprising that he’s misinterpreted the arm linking, too.

  31. 31.

    Catherine D.

    I just watched last night’s Brooklyn Nine-nine and snorted an adult beverage through my nose when Terry Crews said to Andre Braugher: “Are you playing the gay card?” Perfect!

  33. 33.

    aimai

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): He doesn’t have any information at all about the country at large or how his antics are received by the majority of the world. If you narrow your focus to your base and fox news, and if you believe that being talked about is more important than what is said about you, Trump has plenty of reasons to think he is “winning.” they are stupid reasons but they work for him within the limited angle of view he has.

  37. 37.

    WaterGirl

    Per Steve Benen:

    “The Trump administration is restricting lawmakers in both parties from visiting storm-ravaged Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands aboard military aircraft this weekend in order to keep focused on recovery missions there, according to multiple congressional aides.”

    Raise your hand if you think Trump did this so nobody can steal his thunder – he has to be the first one to go. Even if he thinks they are brown people and he doesn’t give a shit about them. He. Has. To. Be. First.

  40. 40.

    hueyplong

    Any explanation for a Trump action that doesn’t emphasize rage/narcissism/bigotry above other factors is an explanation that is off the mark. The “rage” part might just be when his will seems on the verge of being thwarted on nacissism/bigotry.

    And the scheduling of a rally is proof that he’s on the verge of a meltdown.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    Critics’ appeal to “find a better way to protest” is really a call for self-sabotage

    I think this is missing the point. These kinds of objections to the form of the protest aren’t really about getting the protesters to change the way they’re protesting. They’re about providing a plausible excuse for opposing the protests other than denying there’s something worth protesting. That’s why the people objecting will never provide a list of what they see as acceptable forms of protest; that would deny them a justification for objecting if somebody took their advice.

  42. 42.

    jl

    @debbie: Trump thinks he can use the crazy line that it was in support him as cover for the public repudiation of his toxic nonsense. He either hasn’t noticed his fat rear end poking out from under it, or he is pretending not to notice.

  45. 45.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @debbie: He thinks the arm-linking is supporting his position about the taking the knee…that it’s disrespectful to the anthem and the flag, therefore to dead servicemen.

    The thing is Kaepernick consulted with veterans on his form of protest, and they recommended taking the knee rather than sitting. Not that Donald knows anything at all about being a veteran, of course.

  46. 46.

    efgoldman

    Faubus famously deployed the state’s National Guard to prevent nine African-American students from attending classes at the high school.

    CBS ran a historical recap the other night. Now that I’m an old, old man, I can’t get over just. how. fucking. brave those kids – and others like them all over the South – were. My FSM, that’s a stupid amount of pressure to put on high school age kids.

  47. 47.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Roger Moore: Exactly. The protest itself, no matter what form it takes, is the problem. Pointing out something is wrong that these people don’t want to recognize.

  48. 48.

    JMG

    @WaterGirl: No, he’s denying them military flights on the grounds they’re needed for the relief effort. They are free to fly commercial or charter a jet like Tom Price. Only thing is, there’s a 20,000 person waiting list for flights out of San Juan. Once there, they might not be able to get back.

  50. 50.

    Anne Laurie

    @encephalopath:

    I want to post this to some of my clueless social media friends but it probably needs to be shorter and with less profanity.

    I think Mr. Pierce has a good formulation, for those of us milkskins who need educating:

    2) The protests of today are not about the anthem or the flag or the troops, or even about Donald Trump. The protestors are high-profile African-American athletes raising awareness of how lower-profile African-Americans are often mistreated by police officers.

    3) All effective protest is inconvenient and, in its own way, uncivil. The Boston Tea Party was an act of vandalism. Critics’ appeal to “find a better way to protest” is really a call for self-sabotage, and it’s a dodge that dates back to the Olive Branch Petition of 1775.

    4) The wealthy athletes protesting worked much harder for their money than the president in question ever has for his…

  51. 51.

    Redshift

    @lamh36:

    1) so the fam has booked 2 rooms for out trips…we’d like to have them either right next to each other or have them on the same floor. Do I need to call before hand to make sure we can get that? Or do we have to wait until we check in?

    I’d call and request it. If they’re not tight on rooms, they’ll be able to do it at check in, but if they aren’t, requesting it in advance will make it more likely. And if you’re not checking in together, make sure the first one to check in mentions it.

    2)Recommendations on a good not too expensive Steakhouse in the DC area, that would be good for a group of 6 for Sunday DINNER?

    I’ll see if I can get a recommendation from someone. I don’t go to steak houses much any more other than the occasional Outback.

  57. 57.

    ksmiami

    I have a hard time coming to the conclusion that America escapes Trump rule without violence. That at the end, either he’s hanging Mussolini style, or America ceases to exist.

  60. 60.

    debbie

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    There’s a photo circulating on FB of MLK and aides taking a knee, posted by Robert Reich with this statement:

    Taking the knee is part of America’s heritage, Mr. President. It’s a form of peaceful protest that has brought about positive social change.

    Roaming through the comments, I was cheered by this response:

    I’m a 20 yr veteran of 3 wars since Desert Storm and you can wipe your ass with the flag if you wanted to because my oath is to the Constitution, not a phony president, a song or a piece of cloth. This country was founded on rebellion and this is the best form of peaceful criticism and freedom I can think of for a citizen to protest his government. Any REAL service member not brainwashed by the Republican party knows that and any president who speaks against it is nothing but a tyrant. I’m ready for the day true patriots need to defend our country from Trump and his minions. *Updated side note: I once worked at Minot Air Force Base (741st Missile Squadron) and guarded an underground launch facility that can end all life on the planet in under 30 minutes and ALL the Nuclear Experts from William Perry to the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists and even the nuke launch officers themselves believe Trump should NOT have the nuke codes.

  61. 61.

    lamh36

    According to some, Trump has “won” by making the issue about anti-Trump and “anti-anthem” rather than the reason Kaerpernick was protesting which was against “police brutality & systemic racism”

    Look no further than the SI cover which shows athletes, managers, owners, linking arms, but one person (actually 2) is distinctly missing from the cover:

    We can’t hear Colin Kaepernick any more. He’s being drowned out by noise | Ameer Hasan Loggins https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/colin-kaepernick-protest-nfl-take-a-knee?CMP=share_btn_tw

  63. 63.

    different-church-lady

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Donald sees it as a win because his troglodyte base loves it, and they show this by adoring the shitgibbon.

    This one is an extra-big win in his mind, because he tricked a bunch of (supposed) football fans to choose between him and football, and they picked him.

  64. 64.

    WaterGirl

    @JMG:

    No, he’s denying them military flights on the grounds they’re needed for the relief effort.

    Yeah, because those eight – count ’em 8 – fucking planes or helicopters he is sending over are all we have. Right?

  66. 66.

    lamh36

    @BerniceKing
    Down 8,000 Facebook followers. Maybe because I disturbed people’s ideas about my father’s nonviolent philosophy & how it was received. #MLK

    @BerniceKing
    I’m not sad. Just noting how many have made #MLK what they need him to be so that they can value order and false peace more than justice.

  68. 68.

    Davebo

    @lamh36: I’d definitely have requested adjoining rooms when reserving if available or at a minimum two on the same floor. Call them back.

  71. 71.

    debbie

    @lamh36:

    OMG, so true. Glenn Beck has said he thinks he (Beck) is in the mold of MLK. Thank god I was alone so no one could hear my shrieks of fury.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    Trevor Noah nailed this sentiment of being ungrateful.

    But this is old news. I remember some “liberals” calling in to radio stations in Los Angeles after the Rodney King riots, saying that they regretted “giving” rights to black people. For white people, basic human rights are inalienable. For blacks and others, they are provisional.

  74. 74.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    The Australian runner who placed third to Carlos and Smith was also punished by Australian Olympic Committee. He went through hard times
    Only after he died was he finally was forgiven.

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @AnneLaurie or any other FPs in the vicinity: I have a test comment in moderation (I think hovering between 26 and 27 or thereabouts). Would be grateful to have it reprieved. Thanks!

  77. 77.

    Roger Moore

    @WaterGirl:

    Can he tell an elected official of the other party that they can’t take a trip?

    He can’t tell them not to take the trip, but he can tell the military to refuse to fly them there. It’s even justifiable in terms of not diverting resources from helping the people there. I guess they could fly in on private aircraft or come by ship, but it wouldn’t be as easy for people only interested in PR stunts.

  79. 79.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Trump is mentally incapable of admitting to himself he makes mistakes. Like with him endorsing Luther Strange – Strange is a weak beta loser who betrayed Trump for losing, not that Trump endorsment didn’t matter or even drove Republicans to Moore because of Trump’s little treason problem.

  80. 80.

    Redshift

    @encephalopath: Conservative media and pundits have been relentlessly flogging “this is disrespecting the flash and the troops!” since this began, including the concern-trolling version “everyone agrees this is disrespecting the flag, so these protesters are really hurting their own cause…”

    No one who listens to them is going to be given a chance to think it’s about anything else.

  82. 82.

    lamh36

    I still at least a season or year…

    @shadowandact
    Megyn Kelly’s ‘Today’ show debuts lower than Tamron Hall & Al Roker’s hour last year https://buff.ly/2xFye3Y

    @molly_knight
    Megyn Kelly asks Jane Fonda about her plastic surgery, learns you do not fuck with Jane Fonda.
    https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/913098468486389760

    The Morning Politics of Megyn Kelly’s “Today” https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-morning-politics-of-megyn-kellys-today

    …The set was rearranged, slightly, to become a familiar living room. In a case of network synergy, Kelly conducted a group interview with the cast of “Will & Grace,” which returns to television this Thursday, more than a decade after its finale. Eric McCormack barely looked at Kelly while responding to her boilerplate questions; I thought I saw Megan Mullally wince..

  84. 84.

    Hal

    http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/sports/nfl/hansen-unplugged-anthem-protests-not-about-disrespecting-the-flag/287-478596561

    Now, everybody cares.

    Donald Trump has said he supports a peaceful protest because it’s an American’s right… But not this protest, and there’s the problem: The opinion that any protest you don’t agree with is a protest that should be stopped.

    Martin Luther King should have marched across a different bridge. Young, black Americans should have gone to a different college and found a different lunch counter. And college kids in the 60’s had no right to protest an immoral war.

    I served in the military during the Vietnam War… and my foot hurt, too. But I served anyway.

    My best friend in high school was killed in Vietnam. Carroll Meir will be 18 years old forever. And he did not die so that you can decide who is a patriot and who loves America more.

    The young, black athletes are not disrespecting America or the military by taking a knee during the anthem. They are respecting the best thing about America. It’s a dog whistle to the racists among us to say otherwise.

    They, and all of us, should protest how black Americans are treated in this country. And if you don’t think white privilege is a fact, you don’t understand America.

    The comedian Chris Rock said it best: There’s not a white man in America who would trade places with him, and he’s rich.

  86. 86.

    MJS

    @encephalopath: I’m not on social media, but you might want to add a link to the story of the WWII vet who kneeled on Sunday, and then ask your wing nut friends why they’re taking Trump’s side over the vet.

  87. 87.

    grandpa John

    @Major Major Major Major: This The whole thing is being done as a distraction from the real news of his continual disgraceful failures and the eventual release of his criminal behaviors, his corruptness, and his total revelation of being a lying, incompetent, evil being , a total sociopath.

  88. 88.

    Kathleen

    @Mr Stagger Lee: Did you see the ESPN (I believe it was ESPN) documentary about him , Tommie Smith and John Carlos? Norman’s career really suffered but it seems he didn’t regret his decision. Tommie and John were pall bearers at his funeral.

  89. 89.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Roger Moore: I think that they are complaing how the protests are being done and not why the protests are being done is a sign the protests are effective.

  92. 92.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @encephalopath: In my opinion, you’re spot on.

    The national anthem is not about “respecting our military” and not about “noting the sacrifices they’ve made”. Our military has never fought for our freedom to salute the flag, to stand for the national anthem, or otherwise kiss establishment ass.

    I heard Kaepernick started off just failing to stand for the anthem. I can see people whining about that (yes, I said “whining” – not “complaining”), but now they’re in the impossible situation that dropping to one knee is *disrespectful*. And yet, rather than people saying “WTF? How can you stand there, looking like a humanoid, carbon based life form with sentience, and say something like that?” it’s an actual debate.

    If I wanted to point to one thing that the GOP has done that has truly eviscerated this nation, that’s it: that issues, which should leave us questioning the sentience, carbon-basedness, humanoidness, and life (to say nothing of “lives”) of people are treated as worthy of attention, rather than arguments which would ruin toilet paper if printed on it, because you wouldn’t want to get an argument like *that* on your sensitive mucous membranes, even if it would appropriately express your opinion!

    (I’ve been told that my insults are sometimes overly complex. I want to argue, but reading that last paragraph has silenced me on that point!)

  93. 93.

    Barbara

    @lamh36: When I have booked two rooms they are usually on the same floor without me asking, but it’s not a given by any means, so call.

    As for cheap steak houses, I don’t know. There isn’t much that is cheap in the D.C. area. A quick look at Open Table suggests that there is a prix fixe steakhouse called Medium Rare with three locations in D.C. http://www.mediumrarerestaurant.com/dinner.php

    They ONLY serve steak, but it looks pretty good.

  94. 94.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @encephalopath: Maybe start off with one of the “lighter” approach articles that people have suggested. But then after a day or so, go back to your comments and add: Now here’s what I really wanted to say…

    Honestly, kid-glove treatment of racism doesn’t seem to help convince the people who supposedly need it before they will see the light. I think that racism is like death and Santa Claus: a person can’t really make any serious progress until they face the ugly truth, head on. Just rip the band aid off and let them have it (at least at some point.). But then again, I’m pretty sure I’ve been unfriended/unfollowed by the majority of my White friends, so there’s that…

  95. 95.

    SatanicPanic

    What kind of an idiot calls Stevie Wonder ungrateful? Does this moron think we’re owed Mr. Wonder’s music for free? Sheesh, we should be grateful that Mr. Wonder gifted us with as much great music as he has. Whatever his net worth is, it’s a bargain.

  100. 100.

    Barbara

    @lamh36: Just went back and read your requirements. Looks like they are closed on Sunday nights! But they are open for Sunday brunch.

  101. 101.

    trollhattan

    @Hal:
    Spouse showed that to me last night and I went in to Full Halt mode. He’s so on-the-nose correct and forceful about it I had to doublecheck yup, works in Texas. Or is that “worked?”

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    News story that Trump plans to cap the number of refugees accepted by the US next year to 45,000, which of course will be the lowest number in years.

    And he will probably threaten to kick them out should they not be suitably grateful.

  104. 104.

    grandpa John

    @encephalopath: Heh, you should be here in SC and try to read your face book page with all the fake news, lies and ignorant crap I see. the worst of it is I know these people. I go to church with them, I meet them in the grocery store or on the street. Hell my wife is one of them ,needless to say we agree not to discuss politics very much I feel like a failure because so many of them were people I taught in high school and it appears that I taught them nothing about about using their minds for deductive reasoning, critical thinking and so on. They were in science classes ,chemistry classes, physics classes where these things were essential. I judged most of them as being intelligent thinking people, boy was I wrong. 28 years of my life evidently partly wasted, but I do remember some of the sucesses which I guess is what kept me going.

  105. 105.

    trollhattan

    @lamh36:
    If you haven’t seen John Oliver’s Megyn Kelly Fox clip collection from this week’s show, make time. No way she’s still not that person, no matter what Ailes may have done with or about her butt.

  106. 106.

    eclare

    @trollhattan: Guy went to Vietnam, I think he can handle it. Friend in Dallas sent it to me, and I’ve watched it several times. He does a masterful job of moving seamlessly from idea to idea to come to the conclusion.

  107. 107.

    lamh36

    @Redshift (and everyone else who said same): I did call the hotel tonight, and spoke with a woman, but she said I can do it with check in…but to be honest, I don’t think she really understood what I was asking? So I’m gonna get my sis to call in the morning to see if she gets a better answer.

    Our hotel is in Falls Church, VA, We’ll have a rental, so driving isn’t that big a deal. We plan to eat dinner likely near the hotel, but I’d like to eat dinner SOMEPLACE in DC too, just to say we did…but I think we’ll be limited to lunch in DC not meals…(any recs bout parking and goods places to try along the Mall are welcome, thx)

    As for the steakhouse recs, my sisters birthday is Sunday. She said she’d like steak, so it doesn’t have to be a “steakhouse” I suppose. Initially she said Italian, but dang…couldn’t find a good one that was like way to much for like spaghetti!

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    I got to hear one of those (former) kids speak after the 2016 election. She had a pretty amazing story, and she was “just” one of the footsoldiers, so to speak.

    The story of her and her friends hiding under a bridge after being tear-gassed brought the audience to tears.

  111. 111.

    SatanicPanic

    Like seriously, Stevie Wonder has given the world a five decade plus career of wonderful music but because he got paid for it people are going to throw slurs at him for having an opinion? This makes me mad, especially coming from a party led by a goddamn entertainer.

  113. 113.

    Barbara

    @lamh36: Really, trust me on this. Don’t drive into Washington D.C. Even if you find a parking space you will have to walk because finding one is hard enough and finding two will be impossible. You can park at the East Falls Church Metro, and if that’s full, go to Ballston or parking garages in Clarendon or even Courthouse and take the Metro. You could even take a cab or car service to D.C. and it would be cheaper than parking in most places, assuming you can even find one with space.

  114. 114.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    One of my (Black) coworkers is feeling this same way. He’s annoyed that Kaepernick’s actual message is being drowned out. He has a point.

  115. 115.

    A Ghost to Most

    $50 to Doug Jones via actblue.

    In 2006, we contributed a healthy sum (for us) to get rid of George Allen. That was sweet. Let’s go for two.

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    Also, Adam (the front-pager) seems to know every good steakhouse in the US. I would drop him an email — if you don’t already have it, he’s in the drop-down menu.

  118. 118.

    eemom

    @lamh36:
    @MomSense:

    I used to enjoy the rooftop bar in Adams Morgan.

    fellow Mom: do you mean Spaghetti Garden? I think it is long gone, but then, so am I.

    eta: nope, it’s still there.

  121. 121.

    grandpa John

    to expand somewhat, My wife is not ignorant or stupid but like many Trump converts, she is a political neophyte, who never paid much attention to politics , but in the last year or so became one of the Faux news brainwashed legion.She started
    using it as background noise and gradually became enticed by the constant barrage of lies and propaganda. I still have hope that she will see the light but I know it is not for me to to do, she must see it for herself. She voted for Obama in both 08 and 12.before she fell under the evil spell of Fox

  122. 122.

    lamh36

    So there’s the chicken place here in NOLA called Melba’s, it’s in the middle of an predom AA neighborhood (it’s slowly “gentrifiying”, but still predom AA). After the Saints players protested the anthem, the white manager/owner in an on-air interview and in an initial statement on their FB page, said they would no longer be playing the Saints games if the players are gonna “disrespect” the anthem.

    Well, when I tell you the backlash came through like a WILDFIRE!!! Folks started posting on the page that they were no longer gonna be getting the money, and how are they gonna be in a predom AA community, with all AA workers & managers, and be so damn tonedeaf and stupid….folks were started talking about how bad the food was anyway and forget Melba’s, we got other chicken joints we can go too..they talked about how bad the service was…also the fact that not many folks even knew it wasn’t Black-owned…

    Folks DRAGGED Melba’s for HOURS!!! So much so, the companry deleted the statement, and reposted another w/a link to the weak azz statement the Saints posted, talking bout the “support the Saints team” and they STILL got dragged!!!

    And guess what, by the end of the day, when you drove past Melba’s, the parking lot was EMPTY…the only cars likely from workers, and today…STILL empty…

    Shorter the NOLA Black community to the folks at Melba’s:
    https://media.giphy.com/media/4nRiHFFTzmJZC/giphy.gif

  123. 123.

    cbb

    @lamh36

    A couple of thoughts, for what it’s worth. Free parking in Crystal City buildings on the weekends means you can zip into DC on the Metro and not worry about parking (try The Shops at 1750, 18th Street entrance). Morton’s and Ruth’s Chris are also right there in Crystal City, but since you’re staying in Falls Church, perhaps consider the wealth of Vietnamese and other Asian restaurants near your hotel.

  130. 130.

    grandpa John

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    wonder if he has any realization that a great number of those vets he is supposedly grateful to are African Americans, native Indians, Asians. Hispanics and/or immigrants. Not that he really gives a shit about any vets, except for the political points he aiming for

  131. 131.

    sm*t cl*de

    @SatanicPanic:

    What kind of an idiot calls Stevie Wonder ungrateful?

    White guy makes money: Proof of his superiority, you should grovel at his feet, worship his magnificence.
    Black guy makes money: he should show more gratitude to white society for giving it to him.

  132. 132.

    Kyle

    My personal life lesson: If you read Charlie Pierce regularly, you will learn and know enough about the US to be a good citizen. That really is about all it should take.

  134. 134.

    TS

    And it’s not just in America. Our previous (thank dog) Prime Minister is upset about a same sex marriage song at our football finals. (Australia is currently having a plebiscite on SSM, which of course, Mr Abbott is vehemently against).

    Tony Abbott‏Verified account @TonyAbbottMHR 18h18 hours ago

    Footy fans shouldn’t be subjected to a politicised grand final. Sport is sport!

    Abbott Hate

    All the anti brigade are screaming – keep politics out of sport. Seems to be a RWNJ theme.

  138. 138.

    trollhattan

    @Mike in NC: Seeing one or two of those gems is one thing but having several strung together is quite damning. “Acting?” Not really, just acting the fool.

  139. 139.

    MomSense

    @eemom:

    God I can’t remember the exact name. It was upstairs on the second floor of a building with open windows and no roof. I thought it was called the rooftop but I’m old and everything has changed.

  140. 140.

    efgoldman

    @debbie:

    Now he knows how we felt when he moved out of the White House.

    Even on the very edge of your imagination, can you possible imagine Tangerine Torquemada feeling or saying something like that?

    [I understand, Barack. The day in August ’99 when we dropped daughter efg off at UMass in Amherst tore me into little tiny pieces. I was glad to let the bird fly, and she succeeded and flew like crazy, but it’s never totally gone away.]

  141. 141.

    Gin & Tonic

    Open thread? Felix Sater is reportedly saying the $250M tax fraud case against him has been dismissed.

    Hmm.

  142. 142.

    trollhattan

    @TS:
    Charming. I’ll bet Tony Abbott misses his old Canadian playmate, Trudeau sure isn’t obliged to placate or parrot him.

  144. 144.

    Fleeting Expletive

    Good article at Lawfare blog on how a president lying to the American people can be charged for that in an impeachment proceeding. Nixon was charged with that as an impeachable offense and I had forgotten it.

  145. 145.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Trump is an idiot. He has no logic so there’s no way to figure out what he thinks at any given moment. What’s important here is that the NFL players continue their protest and re-focus it away from Trump and back to the police brutality which Kaepernick was originally opposing.

  146. 146.

    Gin & Tonic

    @TS:

    Sport is sport!

    Tony is probably too young to remember the 1956 (Melbourne!) Olympics, and the Hungary v. USSR water-polo match.

  147. 147.

    efgoldman

    @lamh36:

    Do I need to call before hand to make sure we can get that?

    I always add special requests (handicap accessible, first floor, elevator accessibility. whatever) in the space provided at the end of the website reservation form, whether I reserve thru the chain’s own site or at an accumulator.

  148. 148.

    lamh36

    @Barbara: I did see that rec’ed on Trip Advisor…gonna suggest it to the fam, but 1 of the 6 is going “vegan”…so she may just have to be stuck w/salad…it’s NOT her birthday antyway…LOL

  149. 149.

    TS

    @debbie: The FNYT – just had to mention in that article what President Obama paid for his house in DC. “Both sides” are rich – not only the current President who has all this money. I hope to see the demise of this rag in my lifetime (& not so much of that left).

  155. 155.

    efgoldman

    @WaterGirl:

    Can he tell an elected official of the other party that they can’t take a trip?

    He can’t tell them not to go. He CAN order that no military assets be used for transport. That assumes (not a safe assumption) that someone in the WH has actually learned to issue a correctly formatted, valid order down the chain.

  156. 156.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    I am sure it would be an eye-opener if any of us were able to view the world through Donald Trump’s eyes, even for 5 minutes. Or less.

    There was a Star Trek (TOS) episode [“Is There In Truth No Beauty?] where an Ambassador was kept inside a lidded box, because if humans looked at him, his appearance drove them insane in a matter of seconds.

    I have a feeling that living in Lying Littledick’s head for more than a few seconds would do the same for any rational human. Of course, were a RWNJ to try it, it would probably calm the RWNJ down.

  157. 157.

    TS

    @trollhattan:

    Charming. I’ll bet Tony Abbott misses his old Canadian playmate, Trudeau sure isn’t obliged to placate or parrot him.

    He has trump to agree with him now – no need for Canada

  160. 160.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: he spent father’s day at one of his golf resorts, I think in FL, while the kid was his whatshername in Manhattan, which is I’m sure a preferred arrangement for all three.

    Someone posted here, I think, the clip going around from Howard Stern where trump “joked’ about how Don Jr and Ivanka were plotting to cut Tiffany out of the will. I think he just forgot about Eric. And in fairness, don’t a lot of us forget about Eric now and then?

  161. 161.

    ArchTeryx

    @schrodingers_cat: Do NOT do Mortons. It’s priced deliberately high AND has a black-tie dress code, not so much because of the qualify of the food, but to keep the riffraff out. That and the Capital Grille are where the expense-account suits and lobbyists (but I repeat myself) hang out.

    I’d actually have suggested Bugaboo Creek up in Gaithersburg but they went out of business. :-(

  162. 162.

    Mnemosyne

    @SatanicPanic:

    Well, clearly Stevie Wonder only succeeded because of, you know, affirmative action and whatnot. It’s not like he has any actual talent or anything.

    (Okay, his 80s music kinda sucked, but most classic musicians’ 80s music kinda sucked, so we shouldn’t hold that against him.)

  167. 167.

    TS

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Tony is probably too young to remember the 1956 (Melbourne!) Olympics, and the Hungary v. USSR water-polo match.

    I remember what happened in Hungary in 1956 but don’t remember anything about the water polo match – and I was old enough to follow the olympics. There was no TV in Australia in 1956 and we had a RW government so it didn’t make the news for a 10 year old.

    Abbott wasn’t born in 1956 – but regardless – he was born in England and didn’t arrive on our shores – until 1960. A great benefit to England, not so much to Australia.

  168. 168.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: Do I need to call before hand to make sure we can get that? Or do we have to wait until we check in?

    I’d say book it in advance, and call– the local hotel if it’s a chain, and you can find the number, which Hilton et al at least make difficult– in the morning to double check. I was checking into an airport hotel late one night a while back, next to two stressed out and exhausted and very angrelparents who had requested two adjoining rooms each with two beds, they had two unconnected rooms each with one king, the last two rooms in the hotel.

  169. 169.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    When I look at the narcissistic little universe that Trump has created with his family, it’s very obvious that Ivanka is the Golden Child, Eric is the Scapegoat, and Junior is whatever is the best contrast with the other two (Scapegoat to Ivanka and Golden Child to Eric).

    Tiffany and Baron seem to be left out of the dynamic through the strong efforts of each of their mothers, but they probably function as essentially only children.

  170. 170.

    TS

    @WaterGirl:

    Raise your hand if you think Trump did this so nobody can steal his thunder – he has to be the first one to go. Even if he thinks they are brown people and he doesn’t give a shit about them. He. Has. To. Be. First.

    He doesn’t want anyone to see what he and the administration are not doing. Can’t have those congress people reporting on his administration

  173. 173.

    lamh36

    @eclare: It’s not that type of establishment actually. They don’t get tips, per se. It’s NOT really a sit down place…just order and go mostly…

    Still…the workers I’m sure, already know the deal w/the owners esp the “brother Mike” who “not a racist”…

    Also too, they aren’t even the first, another place called WOW in another NOLA area parish (St Bernard) which is still predom white, also said they’d no longer play the game, but they have a largely non-POC customer base

  174. 174.

    efgoldman

    @Barbara:

    You can park at the East Falls Church Metro, and if that’s full, go to Ballston or parking garages in Clarendon or even Courthouse and take the Metro.

    I wouldn’t go further in (Clarendon, Courthouse) for Metro parking – they’ll be full by 600am. Keep going farther out. US 29 thru Arlington follows the Metro tracks.

  175. 175.

    Patricia Kayden

    @TS: Respecting people regardless of their race, sex, religion or sexual orientation isn’t politics. It’s decency. Too bad Conservatives don’t seem to understand this basic point.

  177. 177.

    Gin & Tonic

    @TS: Fascinating story about that match. Plenty of sources, so I won’t try to paraphrase. The “Blood in the Water” game.

  180. 180.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mnemosyne:

    (Okay, his 80s music kinda sucked, but most classic musicians’ 80s music kinda sucked, so we shouldn’t hold that against him.)

    Boo! 80s pop/rock/rap music was the best. Please stop spreading fake news.

  181. 181.

    Corner Stone

    Goddamn Tweety. You fucking fuck.

    He just said D’s like spending govt money but R’s do not.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I love 80s music myself, but you have to admit that people like Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney did not do their best work in the 80s.

    I think David Bowie and Michael Jackson are the only 60s/70s stars I can think of who continued to be great in the 80s. And, obviously, anyone who came to fame during the 80s is outside of the scope of this discussion. (Duran Duran for-EVAH! ?)

  186. 186.

    Bokonon

    And … Russian trolls have been out in force, posting memes attacking the NFL and the players. For real. Some of them were sloppy, and you can see their IP addresses.

    What does that tell you?

  189. 189.

    lamh36

    Shannon Sharpe…ain’t da one to be played with on twitter:

    @ShannonSharpe
    Actually Winton “Pete” Sharpe and Mary Alice Sharpe made me. Don’t get F’d up. ??

    @ThatDudeJ21
    @ShannonSharpe John Elway made you bruh

  193. 193.

    rikyrah

    John Myers‏Verified account @johnmyers

    Breaking: @JerryBrownGov signs bill moving CA’s primary to early March, an attempt to again be relevant in presidential politics.
    1:43 PM – 27 Sep 2017

  195. 195.

    TenguPhule

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Morton’s? I am not a steak person but one of my friends who was a senate aide swore by it. I have no idea how expensive it is.

    Fairly expensive. Its ala carte, so per person you’re looking at $80-$120 easy for a full meal.

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    He just said D’s like spending govt money but R’s do not.

    This is true, from a certain point of view.

    Republicans don’t like to spend government money, they prefer to steal it.

  197. 197.

    Corner Stone

    @TenguPhule: Just like the GOP and dirty Russian money, we’re going to find out that all of this WH and Cabinet abused taxpayer dollars for their own pleasure. But! Based on the head of the WH, who is there to complain about it?

  199. 199.

    Barbara

    @efgoldman: Courthouse garage has free parking on weekends and is not usually full. Hotel by Ballston Metro also has cheap parking. Weekend is different from weekdays.

  202. 202.

    planetjanet

    @lamh36: For an old time classic Washington establishment, try Old Ebbitt’s Grill. The food is quite good and reasonable. It is quite close to the White House and the Mall.

  203. 203.

    rikyrah

    David Begnaud‏Verified account @DavidBegnaud

    Maddening.
    3,000 shipping containers packed with food water & medicene have been sitting at the port in Puerto Rico since Saturday

  204. 204.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Bokonon: And … Russian trolls have been out in force, posting memes attacking the NFL and the players.

    I hope sports shows on TeeVee and radio start to mention that, just to fuck with the Maga mopes

  206. 206.

    SFAW

    @debbie:

    Then I must apologize for my language.

    Don’t be silly. I’ve heard — and uttered — far worse.

    ETA: But, I have to confess — I did freak out a little at first, because I thought it was the voices in my head that were shrieking, and I was worried they’d start telling me to kill again.

  207. 207.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    3,000 shipping containers packed with food water & medicene have been sitting at the port in Puerto Rico since Saturday

    Context?

    Not enough people, not enough distribution channels or just a fuckup?

  209. 209.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the meritocracy lives!

    TV News HQ‏ TVNewsHQ
    Former Fox News anchor MeghanMcCain is to join ABC’s TheView as Co-Host

    I don’t watch the show, but if Whoopi Goldberg is still on it, Princess Budweiser will stomp off the set in tears, screaming of meanie liberals, in less than a week

  211. 211.

    rikyrah

    Ed O’Keefe‏Verified account @edatpost

    SCOOP: White House is restricting lawmakers from visiting Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, aides say

  215. 215.

    Mnemosyne

    In case our Pussyhats did not alert you to the fact that knitters and crocheters are all-in with the resistance, I give you Welcome Blankets, which will be completed well before Trump manages to build the wall they’re opposing.

  217. 217.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    Chelsea did tweet in support of Puerto Rico today, so I’m sure she’s gotten hundreds of responses telling her to STFU. ?

  218. 218.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Any publicity is good publicity for him. That’s what propelled him to the Presidency.

    It’s not exactly, though. During the campaign, Trump’s numbers went up whenever he went relatively quiet for a few days, and attention focused on something else (usually Hillary’s emails). They went down whenever he made a splash with some outrageous statement. One of the things that got him over the finish line was that his campaign people managed to get him relatively subdued for, maybe, the last two weeks of the campaign, and the Comey letter broke in the meantime.

    I’ve been watching his support numbers now. They actually stopped their decline and crept upward over the past couple of weeks, I think because people were paying attention to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria, and the government’s response to the first two was not obviously inept. But after the past few days? Today’s polls are suddenly back down. His big mouth is on the front pages again.

  222. 222.

    dmsilev

    @Matt McIrvin: Healthcare is a big part of that. GOP-“care”, in all of its variants, polls about as well as syphilis, and Trump of course keeps talking up each successive attempt without knowing or caring what they do.

  233. 233.

    Raoul

    That’s deadbeat racist former Congressman Joe Walsh, as wonkette would say, but otherwise quite a good piece by Cobb.

  236. 236.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Major Major Major Major: Springsteen, Peter Gabriel, Aretha Franklin, Robbie Robertson. I’m not a huge Stones fan, but I think their 80s stuff is pretty popular

    Roy Orbison had a bit of a comeback, didn’t he? Not sure if I consider the Traveling Wilburys “great”, but I liked them well enough– Orbison, Dylan and George Harrison

  240. 240.

    SFAW

    @TenguPhule:

    Sorry, that one’s my fault.

    Tempting though it is to blame you, this is not on you, for a change.
    Nor on Goku, for that matter, who seems to have learned well at your figurative knee.

    Peripherally related: many years ago, my then-girlfriend and I were driving down the highway, when I spotted a bumper sticker that said

    “shrink … I wanna kill”

    When I started laughing loudly, my girlfriend thought I was either nuts or an asshole. [Actually, she was right, but not because of my bumper sticker response.] I eventually explained the reference to her, which calmed her down.

    One of the other resident old farts can explain, if you don’t get the ref yourself, whippersnapper.

  243. 243.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Gelfling 545:

    When I was working for a foreign government, it made sense to put some distance between my real self and my online persona. But after four years of retirement, I’m not much worried about it now.

  245. 245.

    Shana

    @lamh36: Ray’s The Steaks in Arlington VA is supposed to be good and moderately priced for a steakhouse. I haven’t been (Hubby’s kosher and therefore we don’t eat at steakhouses often) but it has a good reputation and has been around for quite a while.

  247. 247.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @lamh36: I’m not sure about inexpensive but Clyde’s in Falls Church seems to do quite well. I’m more familiar with Old Town Alexandria and the Eisenhower/Carlyle area. There’s also a Cajun place by the National Zoo that Mr. Rudbek and I like.

  248. 248.

    SFAW

    @debbie:

    I had a friend who had that whole thing memorized, word for word.

    I think I had it about 80 to 90 percent at one time. But I remember all the important parts — or did, before I became an old fart.

  253. 253.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Trump’s core supporters love awful Trump; that’s his floor. But they weren’t enough for him to win all by themselves; he had to have some people who were thinking “well, Hillary is worse” or “I’m a Republican and he’s maybe not that bad; I’ll give him a shot”. I think the motion was within that crowd.

  255. 255.

    The Pale Scot

    @debbie: Love the bird, I had a great laugh

    Remind’s me of Uncle Duke’s parrot sounding off with “Let’s frag the Lieutenant! Let’s frag the Lieutenant!”

    “Lordy! The Bird’s been to ‘Nam!”

  256. 256.

    J R in WV

    @efgoldman:

    Geeze, man, do you not remember the grade school kids, 8 or 9 years old, being shrieked at by raging bigots spraying spittle on their faces? Those kids were as brave as a Medal of Honor winner, and accomplished more for their country than most Medal of Honor winners did.

    And I respect Medal of Honor winners a great deal, but they are trained combat warriors for the most part, not little kids.

    The martyrs were four little girls in a church basement in Birmingham, and David Jones put the bastard fascist hating traitors who killed those little girls in prison, which is one more reason to support him whole heartedly.

    Trump is probably on the side of the bombers, not the little girls and their families, by the way.

  257. 257.

    sharl

    @encephalopath: I just listened to a podcast by a couple of Army veterans on this very topic, making the same points. (Audio may be NSFW because of a lot of F-bombs; headphones or ear buds recommended, but beware of {IMO} way too loud opening music.)

    Their notes for that podcast:

    But lets dive in. First, stop using me, Nate, Adrian or any other veterans in your family in your arguments. We’re normal people with our own opinions. Nothing we do or say is yours to use. There’s a whole Constitution for you to cite.

    Secondly, especially don’t use dead Soldiers who can’t speak for themselves. We all want to believe Pat Tillman, former NFL player who joined the military and was killed by friendly fire would have been on one side or the other. And maybe he would have, but that’s not for you and me to decide.

    Third, don’t cite the flag code unless you know what you’re talking about. I wrote a nifty primer for Task and Purpose right here. More than likely you don’t know the flag code, which is completely normal and nothing to be ashamed of because there’s just way too many rules.

    And remember, the President said horrible things about POWs, Gold Star families, women, immigrants and really anyone he doesn’t like in general. But it took insulting the money of rich white men for them to stand up to him.

  258. 258.

    The Pale Scot

    @debbie:

    I had a friend who had that whole thing memorized, word for word.

    His name wouldn’t be Bob?, from NJ. Was an editor for a college newspaper.

  259. 259.

    TS

    @trollhattan:

    Has he gotten over the whole “Keep your stupid damn refugees!” phone call?

    Late reply – sorry – That is the current PM Turnbull – not the previous Abbott. The two are at loggerheads cause Abbott ain’t going to pack up & leave quietly.
    We don’t have to have an election to get rid of a PM. The party can vote him out & this happened to Abbott.

  262. 262.

    Another Scott

    @Barbara: Yup. Even after 6 PM (or maybe 8 PM) is different than during the day. J goes to the 930 Club quite frequently and always finds free parking on the street.

    All that said, driving in DC can be a nightmare. One can go miles and miles and not be able to turn left if one gets on the wrong street….

    DC’s a great city, but it can be challenging if one isn’t familiar with it. Metro’s great too, but the stations aren’t close together so one often needs to do a lot of walking…

    All that said, I hope lamh36 and family have a great time. Flying into DCA (or “National”, never “Reagan”, please!) is very convenient. The NMAAHC is great (allow plenty of time – some of the lines can be long!). The NMAI is great. The NASM is great. The SpyMuseum has been on my list for a long time, but I’ve not been yet.

    Can’t recommend any steak house, unfortunately. I agree that Morton’s (and Ruth’s Chris) are hugely expensive (I’ve never been) and besides they’re chains. There’s an amazing amount of ethnic food in the DC area and even in Fall’s Church – we’ve always enjoyed Duangrats but it’s been several years since we’ve been out that way.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  264. 264.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lamh36: I tossed your question over to Valdivia who lives in DC. I’ll let you know if she comes back with any recommendations.

  266. 266.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lamh36: @Omnes Omnibus:The response:

    BLT Steak House is the in place but prices are astronomical

    DC has both Morton’s and Ruth Chris which are both good at doing steak and seafood and you know what you are getting.

    The traditional DC places are The Palm (near Dupont) and The Prime Rib (Foggy Bottom) but they are both also primo expensive.

    Less expensive is Capitol Grill and the brazilian Fogo De Chao

    Finally a place that gets good reviews and is even less expensive is called The Smith it is not technically a steak house but American food. I would probably go there and it is near the museums and the mall etc in Penn Quarter.

  267. 267.

    karl

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): although i appreciate your viewpoint, i have a different one. I have many friends who are veterans and were in certain aspects of the military that saw a lot of action. Many of them lost quite a few friends during their military service. Some of these veterans are quite damaged by what they have lived through. We usually hang out watching some form of sporting events and drink beer (as many guys do). Some, not all of my veteran friends will come to a complete standstill and stand at attention during the playing of the national anthem at the beginning of whatever game we are watching. Out of respect to them, I and all my other friends stop what we are doing and also stand at attention with them until the national anthem is done. Most times I can see one or more choking back their emotions. I can tell you that none of them are happy with what they see occurring at football games, it upsets them quite a bit. While I agree its just a song, its not to them. Out of respect to men like these (who have basically given their what is now twisted lives to military service) I have to disagree with you and side with those who are rather adamant that protesting during the national anthem is a rather repugnant thing, no matter the original thought process/justification

  270. 270.

    SFAW

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Your lack of answer says volumes. Fuck off, troll.

    Before reading the comment from “karl,” I was thinking of suggesting you were being too hard on him. But “his” comment gets all, or most of, the RWNJ talking points in there, plus the good ol’ “and I stand at attention, too!” thing. I liked the “twisted lives” thing, too. So I’m thinking you called it right.

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