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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Hurricane Maria’s Aftermath: The Leaks Become A Flood

Hurricane Maria’s Aftermath: The Leaks Become A Flood

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Trump’s Oval Office Occupation has shattered so many norms, it’s impossible to assess what “bad news” might be for him. But this is an ongoing tragedy in real time — not just in Puerto Rico, either…

Reader Interactions

231Comments

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    This whole thing is just fucking heartbreaking.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    “This is an island. Surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.”

    “Not like the yellow water. The yellow pee water on my bed. The bed in Russia.”

  5. 5.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Corner Stone:

    It doesn’t even…

    I so cannot…

  6. 6.

    dmsilev

    Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here.

    – Dan Quayle

  7. 7.

    TenguPhule

    It gets worse. Trump was fucking goofing off when it was time to act fast.

    At first, the Trump administration seemed to be doing all the right things to respond to the disaster in Puerto Rico.

    As Hurricane Maria made landfall that Wednesday, there was a frenzy of activity publicly and privately. The next day, Trump called local officials on the island, issued an emergency declaration and pledged that all federal resources would be directed to help.

    But then for four days after that — as storm-ravaged Puerto Rico struggled for food and water amid the darkness of power outages — Trump and his top aides effectively went dark themselves.

    Trump jetted to New Jersey that Thursday night to spend a long weekend at his private golf club there, save for a quick trip to Alabama for a political rally. Neither Trump nor any of his senior White House aides said a word publicly about the unfolding crisis.

    Trump did hold a meeting at his golf club that Friday with half a dozen Cabinet officials — including Acting Homeland Security Secretary Elaine Duke, who oversees disaster response — but the gathering was held to discuss his new refugee travel ban, not the hurricane. Duke and Trump spoke briefly about Puerto Rico, but did not talk again until Tuesday, an administration official said.

    Its worse then Katrina. Its Trump’s Maria.

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    BTW, I realise this is not an Open Thread, but I feel compelled to observe that I don’t give a big flying rat’s ass WHAT Melissa Sue Anderson looks like today. Truly, I don’t.

  10. 10.

    Corner Stone

    First, John Kelly let his boss get exposed to this absolutely awful and evil outcome (political). Now Trump is golfing in NJ and CoS didn’t say, “Wait a minute chief.”
    Because if he did say it, and it didn’t matter. Then how the fuck is he going to stop a nuclear launch? And if he didn’t say it then he is too stupid to have the fucking CoS job.

  12. 12.

    SFBayAreaGal

    Waiting to hear the outrage about him golfing while the disaster in Puerto Rico is happening. Anytime now, Senate, Representatives, conservatives, Fox News, anytime now, anytime now

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    Trump reveals the rot in every person around him. He does not always corrupt them, just puts them in a position to force them to reveal themselves.

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Corner Stone:

    I didn’t believe it. My jaw dropped.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    These guys will spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on private jet flight but they won’t spend $200 or $300 to get a tailor*? Jesus it drives me insane.

    *That’s like at most if they had their suit sent to a local tailor to get the fit right. It would be more obviously in London, etc.

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @SFBayAreaGal:

    Who?

    You know. The one who, if you were to see what she looks like today, you would not believe. Because what she looks like now is insane. It’s on the internets and everything.

  25. 25.

    Raoul

    Trump of course f*ked this up. He and everyone around him are utterly incompetent. I think Gen. Kelly also comes out of this looking like shit. What sort of COS oversees this kind of horrible, flailing, much to little much too late disaster?

    I also agree with the final tweet in the OP: The news was obsessed with ACA. Which was damn important. But they coulda paused for 90 seconds per newscast to savage our eyeballs with the unfolding humanitarian crisis. Don’t they love disaster pron, after all?

  26. 26.

    rikyrah

    I never thought that I would see another Katrina. I knew that people had to have learned from it.
    This is unbelievable .
    And, the pure -D unadulterated RACISM in all of this galls me.

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    Pruitt has an 18 person security detail 24/7. Think about that. The head of the EPA.

    Well he is trying to kill millions of Americans. I guess he expects them to try and return the favor.

  31. 31.

    scav

    It is a relief that at least someone now has clearly explained to the bulk of Americans — real, great, proper Americans — just what an island is.

  32. 32.

    Uncle Omar

    Somewhat off topic, but I’ve been away from the news for a few days. Has Don’s check for $1,000,000.00 for Harvey Relief cleared yet? Has he even sent it?

  33. 33.

    PhoenixRising

    @Raoul:

    But they coulda paused for 90 seconds per newscast to savage our eyeballs with the unfolding humanitarian crisis. Don’t they love disaster pron, after all?

    They do. And the problem was no way to get video out due to the scope of the disaster. No pictures, no news. We the people are illiterates focused on shiny flashing things.

  34. 34.

    Corner Stone

    @rikyrah: There is no other word for it. There are more words for it but racism starts it off.
    Trump ran out of focus and attention span. He knew no one who is going to vote for him gives a shit about the people in PR and USVI. They have no idea who those “people” are. So he is golfing.

  35. 35.

    hovercraft

    @dmsilev:

    Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here.

    – Dan Quayle

    He was was patient zero in the crazification of the GOP. Poppy Bush did this to his party. First by accepting to be St. Rayguns VP, with his voodoo economics and his star wars, and then by kissing up to the god botherers and selecting VP Potatoe.
    He normalized stupidity in the highest offices in the land, then gave us Shrub, Palin and now the Orange Shitstain.

  36. 36.

    barb 2

    Un-fukking-believable — but expected. The Jones Act — has screwed Hawaii since the piece of crap welfare bill for the ultra-rich was written. It is madding that this “law” is still on the books. I’m writing to my Senators — support McCain’s bill to get rid of the Jones crap NOW. There is no excuse — oh forget it — Trump is a racist, hateful, mean creep.

    Could it be that the 32 million dollars in back taxes he owes PR? Something like blackmail? Every day — something new.

    When will I wake up from this nightmare? It just goes on and on and on. . . . .

    The media is just as bad — NOT covering the vast devastation on PR and the US Virgin Islands — is malpractice. Well, I expect that from Fox News. We know what’s happening because we care enough to search out every piece of news and look at the photos of the damage done by Maria.

    We have friends on another Carib Island — what a relief to hear from them. Their island came so close to taking a major hit from Maria– and they all know how lucky they are. Point is — communication is back up — what must it be like not knowing how PR friends and family are doing? How bad were they hit?

    I really hate the Trump gang — all of them. And the media who are his enablers.

    Where the hell is the US Military??? The Navy has huge aircraft carriers and ships with power plants. Army corps of Engineers to get transportation and communications back online. The military hasn’t changed that much since my dad retired — the equipment can do civilian work — and the military is still staffed by humans who hopefully still care about other human beings.

    My husband is now sounding like me — I never thought I’d hear him rant on about Trump after seeing the morning news.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    @Corner Stone: Heard that.

    What? Is he avoiding The Sierra Club? National Park rangers got a contract out on him? Smokey the Bear sniffing around, menacing him?

    Does he fantasize the Islamics are after him, because he was a Navy SEAL (not a good one, particularly)?

  41. 41.

    Raoul

    @gwangung: If that’s his (or his apologists) response, then he is a shriveling coward for not resigning.

    Yeah, yeah, he’s gonna stop the nukes. But I think corner stone has it — if he can’t crisis manage Trump on the optics of golfing while cholera takes hold in a US territory within two flight hours of Miami? Then he will not be able to crisis manage Trump if the nuclear football is really about to get tossed.

  43. 43.

    Redshift

    @Corner Stone:

    Pruitt has an 18 person security detail 24/7.

    He has a security detail when he’s in the office. Their purpose (along with his forthcoming soundproofed room) is to make sure no one can overhead and leak when he’s selling out the laws he swore to uphold to his polluting industry buddies.

  44. 44.

    Duane

    I heard his”this is an island” remark on Fox Radio.Are they trying to make him look stupid,or just as clueless as he is?

  45. 45.

    hovercraft

    @TenguPhule:

    Its worse then Katrina. Its Trump’s Maria.

    Speaking to Puerto Ricans around here, who’ve known Twitler for years, the governor down there will be hence known as the Kathleen Blanco of PR. His repeated media appearances praising these fuckers are not being received well, here or in PR, communications may be down, but it’s still getting around the island. People are pissed.

  46. 46.

    Spanky

    @rikyrah: It may be that I’m just a cynical old man, but I knew there’s be another Katrina, because storms won’t stop, and Republicans would be back in charge.

    You know what else I know? This ain’t nuthin’ yet.

  47. 47.

    Raoul

    @barb 2:

    Where the hell is the US Military??? The Navy has huge aircraft carriers and ships with power plants. Army corps of Engineers to get transportation and communications back online. The military hasn’t changed that much since my dad retired — the equipment can do civilian work — and the military is still staffed by humans who hopefully still care about other human beings.

    Ask Four Star General and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly where they are. He should know.

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    @barb 2

    You betcha.

    As of 2011, there were only five public domestic shipyards in the U.S. and 20 private ones. Of 171 privately owned U.S. flagged ships, 93 were Jones Act-eligible, and 73 could be categorized as militarily useful.

    Between 2006 and 2011, the Jones Act-eligible fleet shrank by just over 17 percent, with the number of each vessel type in that category falling, sometimes by a significant amount. If the Jones Act is intended to maintain the health of the commercial shipbuilding industry, then the shrinking U.S. merchant fleet demonstrates that the Act has been a failure in that regard.
    [snip]
    As for the effect on consumers, the U.S. International Trade Commission has estimated that reform or repeal of the Jones Act could yield an annual economic gain of between $5 and $15 billion.

    The economic burden of the Jones Act is felt nationwide, often in unexpected ways, but the highest burden is felt by the noncontiguous territories (including Guam, Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii), which more than the rest of the U.S. depend on shipping for provision of their goods.

    Partial reform could lift overall U.S. incomes by hundreds of millions of dollars, with specific industries making substantial gains that would offset losses by the shipping industry. One estimate has placed the cost of coastal water transport falling by approximately 60 percent, which would greatly benefit industries such as petroleum, chemicals, air transport and steel.
    [snip]
    Moreover the economic absurdities caused by the Jones Act are legion. The Act makes it cheaper for U.S. livestock farmers to buy grain from overseas than from American sources. States like Maryland and Virginia import their road salt rather than buy it from Ohio. The east coast of the U.S. cannot afford to get lumber from the Pacific Northwest. And shipping oil from Texas to New England costs about three times as much as shipping it to Europe.
    [snip]
    The two geographic areas that bear a disproportionate burden of the Jones Act’s restrictions are Hawaii and Puerto Rico, with Alaska not too far behind. According to Patrick Holland, the Jones Act raises the cost of gasoline in Puerto Rico by 15 cents a gallon, and its state-run authority pays 30 percent more than it otherwise would for liquefied natural gas. Shipping prices contribute greatly to the generally high cost of living in Hawaii — which is fully 12 percent higher than the next most expensive state in the union, Connecticut. Source

  50. 50.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @scav:

    It is a relief that at least someone now has clearly explained to the bulk of Americans — real, great, proper Americans — just what an island is.

    The island of Puerto Rico is being recognized more and more.

  52. 52.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Raoul: Matthew Yglesias‏Verified account @ mattyglesias 5h5 hours ago
    John Kelly, as a former SOUTHCOM Chief, must be familiar with military assets in the region that could have been used to help Puerto Rico.

  53. 53.

    Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California)

    Breaks my heart. We still don’t have word of all our relatives there. The racism and apathy from Shitgibbon and company make me want to scream.

  54. 54.

    TS

    trump is going to find some way to charge the mayor of San Juan with something – anything – she has no more f*cks to give and it speaking to truth with her words on what is happening in her city

  55. 55.

    debbie

    Andy Borowitz on FB:

    BREAKING: Tom Price Seated Between Two Screaming Babies on First-ever Commercial Flight

  56. 56.

    gene108

    @Raoul:

    I also agree with the final tweet in the OP: The news was obsessed with ACA. Which was damn important. But they coulda paused for 90 seconds per newscast to savage our eyeballs with the unfolding humanitarian crisis. Don’t they love disaster pron, after all?

    The media cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

  57. 57.

    Spanky

    @barb 2: I posted this earlier, but this is a good place too. From the Weather Channel:

    It’s been more than a week since Hurricane Maria slammed into Puerto Rico, causing unimaginable destruction and a humanitarian crisis that is only just beginning to unfold in this U.S. territory of 3.5 million people.

    To put the tragedy into some perspective, it helps to see the numbers associated with a storm of this magnitude and the devastation it leaves behind.

    Here are a few numbers to take in:

    18 Dead
    So far, 18 people have died as a result of the storm, but with little to no electricity and stifling temperatures baking the territory this week, the elderly, the very young and the sick are at risk, so the death toll could rise in the coming days and weeks.

    124,000 Gallons
    According to a Federal Emergency Management Agency spokesperson, the Defense Logistics Agency was transporting a shipment of 124,000 gallons of diesel fuel to Puerto Rico. Despite an abundance of fuel reportedly sitting in tankers off the piers of Puerto Rico’s ports, a distribution nightmare is leading to panic among hurricane-weary residents.

    11,437 Remain in Shelters
    According to Puerto Rico’s governor’s office, 11,437 people are still living in shelters on the island as of Tuesday.

    80 Percent Loss of Crops
    Maria destroyed 80 percent of Puerto Rico’s agricultural industry, including banana, plantain and coffee crops, which translates into an estimated $780 million, according to the New York Times.

    4.4 Million Meals
    FEMA has sent more than 4.4 million meals, 6.5 million liters of water, nearly 300 infant and toddler kits to support 3,000 infants for a full week, 70,000 tarps, and 15,000 rolls of roof sheeting to the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico since Hurricane Maria’s landfall.

    2,400 Miles
    Hurricane Maria knocked out nearly all of Puerto Rico’s 2,400 miles of transmission lines and more than 30,000 miles of smaller distribution wires, leaving the island almost completely without power. More than a week after the storm hit the territory, 97 percent of the island remains without power.

    19 Hospitals
    Fuel was delivered to 19 hospitals Wednesday for power generators and 200 gas stations received fuel, according to FEMA.

    1.57 Million Customers
    As of Wednesday, the majority of the 1.57 million electricity customers in Puerto Rico remain without power, the U.S. Department of Energy said. The agency added that damage assessments and restoration efforts are underway, focusing on critical facilities.

    44 Percent
    About 44 percent of Puerto Rico’s population is without drinking water, the U.S. Department of Defense reports.

    3,000 Evacuees
    Royal Caribbean says it has canceled a planned cruise and is using the ship instead to evacuate 3,000 victims of hurricanes Irma and Maria and deliver supplies to Puerto Rico.

    240 Flights Per Day
    The U.S. Northern Command estimates that it will increase the number of flights bringing needed supplies to Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands from 3-6 aircraft per hour to 10 aircraft per hour, for a total of 240 aircraft per day.

    100 Delivery Trucks
    With the fuel shortages leading to panic across the island, The Defense Logistics Agency dispatched 100 delivery trucks Thursday, carrying an estimated 275,000 gallons of diesel fuel to residents.

    The Weather Company’s primary journalistic mission is to report on breaking weather news, the environment and the importance of science to our lives. This story does not necessarily represent the position of our parent company, IBM.

  58. 58.

    Starfish

    I don’t understand why the media talks directly to the administration about this since they lie about everything. The mayor that they were speaking to is a lot more informed of the situation and better able to assess what is going on. Here they are talking to an Army Lt. Gen. who is in charge of the relief effort and actually knows things.

  59. 59.

    Raoul

    @Spanky: Yup. Puerto Rico, USVI, the middle Florida Keys, Port Aransas, the massive Houston rains. All just the early early stages of what is to come.

    I guess Trump is the tragic indication that a dangerous swath of humanity opted for the “party like it’s 1999” response to climate and other genuine, serious issues.

    It’s gonna get worse. A whole lot worse. I am deeply frightened for my 10 year old niece, and all my friends who decided to have kids. And for all humanity, really.

  61. 61.

    gene108

    @scav:

    It is a relief that at least someone now has clearly explained to the bulk of Americans — real, great, proper Americans — just what an island is.

    The memo hasn’t reached Rhode Island yet. They still don’t get the “surrounded on all sides by water” part of being an island.

  62. 62.

    Elizabelle

    And — alert Don Lemon — there’s a missing white woman from around Hurricane Maria, too. Although this one disappeared from the US Virgin Islands.. But what a strange, strange story. From the FTF NYTimes today. A Teacher Vanishes Again. This Time, in the Virgin Islands.

    Hannah Upp. 32 years old. Montessori teacher. Has bizarre and incredibly rare condition: “dissociative fugue.”. (Also suffered by fictional character Jason Bourne.) She will suddenly lose her memory of self, disappear for days or weeks at a time —can include travel, and have no memory whatsoever after the episode.

    She disappeared for almost 3 weeks in 2008; left home in NYC on August 28th; found floating in New York Harbor one morning; rescued by an alert ferry captain. 2009 NYTimes story: A Life, Interrupted (Deconstructing the Missing Weeks of a Teacher) Long and very interesting story.

    And then: 2 days on the lam, in Montgomery County MD (DC suburbs) in 2013.

    Most recently: left for Sapphire Beach in St. Thomas in the the Virgin Islands on the morning of September 14th, in between Hurricanes Irma and Maria. Her clothing and car keys were found on the beach; her car, with cell phone and passport, has been found parked near the beach. (She tends to leave behind her belongings, purse, and ID, because with the amnesia, she tends not to recognize them as her own.)

    Hannah disappears in late August/early September, right around the start of the school year. Three times now. If/when she turns up, they need to microchip her or something. Insert a GPS. Whatever.

    Here’s the Facebook page her family created. Find Hannah Upp USVI

    And with that, an end to this week’s missing white woman story, admittedly on a different island. But still.

  64. 64.

    Redshift

    @PhoenixRising:

    How would one find out what security Ken Salazar or Sally Jewell used? I’m just curious.

    I can find a few articles that mention that Sally Jewell had a security detail, which is unsurprising. Not sure where you’d find out exactly how wildly out of line Pruitt is.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    Be still, my heart!

    I was just about to report that I’m only about 35 minutes behind on the DVR—got sidetracked with the D.C. steakhouse recommendations—and I’m getting ready to fix another gigantic Mount Gay and tonic and settle in for Rachel to bring out the big guns. Joy after that is almost more than I can bear.

  68. 68.

    TenguPhule

    @PhoenixRising:

    How would one find out what security Ken Salazar or Sally Jewell used? I’m just curious.

    They had up to 6 people guarding them at a time, generally when they made rules the corporations didn’t like and they got actual threats to be worried about. It has been mentioned a few times in the stories reporting about Pruitt’s excessive security demands.

  72. 72.

    Ladyraxterinok

    Total insanity to watch Jim Bakker and his guests discuss how T is growing ever closer to God. How he prays daily with Evangelical ministers. How he is the ‘most Christian president in our lifetime.’

    See the number of youtube viewers his show and those of John Hagee, Sid Roth, Perry Stone, Jack van Impe, Hal Lindsey, and others have. Let alone the numbers who watch these shows on tv. These people live in a different universe. It has no claim to being a Christian universe since nothing he does reflects anything those of us raised in the church before the 70s (see slacktivist blog at patheos discususions ot the radical change that took place in Evangelicalism beginning in the 70s) recognize as Christian.

  73. 73.

    TenguPhule

    @Spanky: To keep things in perspective, FEMA said they sent 4.4 million meals.

    There are 2 million people on PR.

    So that’s basically 1 day’s worth of meals for everyone if they could manage to reach every American.

    It has been over a week.

  75. 75.

    Elizabelle

    @Spanky: Blazing Saddles. Just caught that on AMC earlier this week, including that scene. That movie has aged incredibly well.

    Still have never seen it all the way through. Catch snippets here and there.

  77. 77.

    satby

    @Corner Stone:

    I kind of lose a little respect for people who can’t commit to clicking through the 25 links to see the difference. Not my kind of people, tbh.

    Dude. And here I was thinking you and I were soulmates. ?

  82. 82.

    danielx

    @NotMax:

    Well played.

    On a more general note, Trump’s lack of attention towards PR can be explained by three things:

    People there are mostly poor.
    People there are mostly brown.
    People there can’t vote.

    So from Lord Shortfingers’ perspective, who gives a shit about them? The fact that they are US citizens in desperate need of help comes in a distant fourth.

  86. 86.

    TS

    @TenguPhule:

    To keep things in perspective, FEMA said they sent 4.4 million meals.

    There are 2 million people on PR.

    So that’s basically 1 day’s worth of meals for everyone if they could manage to reach every American.

    It has been over a week.

    You assume those meals have reached the 2 mill people. From what the mayor has to say it seems unlikely – the people eating well appear to be the fema staff.

  87. 87.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Elizabelle:

    Still have never seen it [Blazing Saddles] all the way through. Catch snippets here and there.

    Same here.

    Also, and I am truly ashamed to admit this, but have never seen The Princess Bride, although of course I recognize many of its tropes. TCM Big Screen Classics is showing it in cinemas in a couple of weeks, and I do plan to see it. (After all, I saw The Godfather for the first time in my life just a couple of months ago!)

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    @hovercraft:

    the governor down there will be hence known as the Kathleen Blanco of PR. His repeated media appearances praising these fuckers are not being received well, here or in PR

    That guy honestly appears like a hostage victim. It is disturbing how the Dignity Wraith has got to him across the Big Ocean.

  91. 91.

    Major Major Major Major

    @SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet): The Onion has a good feature on fun facts about the princess bride: http://www.theonion.com/infographic/princess-bride-numbers-57028?utm_content=59c95c163a4da4c7105f7dcc&utm_campaign=The+Onion&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=The_Onion-10155888546479497-Demos_14x7_Placements_w%2Flookalike_227-%E2%80%98The_Princess_Bride%E2%80%99_By_The_Numbers-45-54-1200

  92. 92.

    Corner Stone

    @satby: If you don’t want to really find out what Melissa Sue Anderson looks like today, which is just 25 or so clicks away…how can I count on you to stand beside me when I am trying to determine what that one weird trick to retire decades early is?

  96. 96.

    efgoldman

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I’ve never watched Gone With The Wind, It’s a Wonderful Life, Miracle on 54th street and at least two dozen other popular movies.

    I saw GWTW in theatrical re-release because my high school girlfriend wanted to go. Endless, stupid, boring, racist. Never again.
    Mrs efg loves the xmas movies (Wonderful Life, Miracle on 34th Street) I find them both laughable at best, actually just boring. Hate them.

  99. 99.

    The Pale Scot

    @Corner Stone: Derringer in his boot. And really, he’s a marine, he’d snap the fucker’s neck and say he tripped over his putter. By the time it got cleared up, Pence would be in Brazil.

  100. 100.

    JMG

    @efgoldman Clark Gable was very handsome and Vivien Leigh was very, very, very beautiful, and in 1939, that was all that white America (only people allowed in the movie theaters that showed GWTW) cared about,.

  104. 104.

    Lizzy L

    I NEVER watch Fox News, but my gym has a bank of screens (sound off, closed captions) and when I ride the exercise bike I can see a Fox News screen, and occasionally I watch. Today on some stupid program or other they had two people arguing about hurricane relief, and one of them, very casually, reminded the audience of that time when Obama golfed during the hurricane in Louisiana.

    Of course he intended people to think of Hurricane Katrina, the sneaky lying bastard. And neither the other party in the conversation nor the moderator spoke up to say, Hey, you lying asshole, BUSH was President during Hurricane Katrina! It was classic, totally Orwellian.

    I HATE Fox News.

  108. 108.

    efgoldman

    @JMG:

    in 1939, that was all that white America (only people allowed in the movie theaters that showed GWTW) cared about

    War of Southern Treason over Slavery as told to Shelby Foote.

  110. 110.

    lollipopguild

    @p.a.: George C. Scott’s is quite good but i also like the musical version with Anthony Newley, but the wife hates it.

  111. 111.

    Raoul

    Oh, yeah, this guy. Worth following if one is a twitterer. Thread.

    Jasmin Mujanović‏
    @JasminMuj 29 Sep 2017
    Expect major global crisis to make apparent vacuum of post-US/UK order before summer 2019. We’re still early days of generational shift.

  115. 115.

    p.a.

    @lollipopguild: I actually liked La La Land, but that’s honestly the only musical I’ve ever enjoyed. Maybe it’s just that I’m getting old; my suspension of disbelief just never got to the point of accepting people spontaneously breaking out in song. Yet sci fi, fantasy: no problem. It is what it is. Or I yam what I yam…

  116. 116.

    efgoldman

    @p.a.:

    Patrick Stewart’s A Christmas Carol is well done

    It’s the favorite version at our house, although some of the visuals in the Jim Carrey version are stunning.

  124. 124.

    FlyingToaster

    @efgoldman: At ChezToaster, we have a rather different taste in Christmas Movies:

    The Ref
    The Lion in Winter
    Comfort and Joy (the Bill Forsyth one)

  125. 125.

    Steeplejack

    @raven:

    That is an excellent remix, and an excellent recommendation. Especially since (I think) SiubhanDuinne hasn’t seen Part 2.

  128. 128.

    different-church-lady

    @rikyrah:

    I never thought that I would see another Katrina.

    Never thought I would see…
    √ Two Katrinas in one lifetime
    √ Two electoral college/popular vote mismatches in one lifetime
    √ Two Watergates in one lifetime
    _ Two impeachments in one lifetime
    _ Two presidential resignations in one lifetime

  130. 130.

    FlyingToaster

    @p.a.: That’d fit. I’d also sometimes include Driving Miss Daisy, because I grew up in that neighborhood in the midwest.

    I lived in the area with 3 synogogues, the JCC and the Jewish Home for the Aged. Our neighborhood had the best decorations every December. HerrDoktor always tries to figure out how I ended up in charge of decorating for his holiday…

  133. 133.

    Sab

    @FlyingToaster: “The Lion In Winter” as a Christmas movie does make weird sense. Sort of Festivus in the 12th century, what with the airing of grievances and all, but everybody still intensely Christian.

    I adored that movie when I was fifteen. I saw it again when I was sixty, and was amazed by the intensity of the scenery chewing. Laughed the whole way through it.

  139. 139.

    Steeplejack

    @p.a.:

    A Hard Day’s Night. The “not a musical” musical. Also called “the Citizen Kane of jukebox musicals” (Andrew Sarris, I think).

  140. 140.

    Steve in the ATL

    Trump on Puerto Rico response: “This is an island. Surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.”

    To be fair, this is one of the few statements trump has ever made in which he did not lie.

    I have no dislike of Prince but That. Film Is. TERRIBLE.

    @different-church-lady: also did not lie.

  141. 141.

    efgoldman

    @Duane:

    efg is so old he watched moving pictures on those boxes Edison invented.:)

    Not quite, but my mom DID take me to the original Cinerama three camera/three projector Cinerama travelogue for my 10th birthday. Some people actually got sick in the roller coaster and flying over the Grand Canyon sequences.

  142. 142.

    FlyingToaster

    @Sab:

    “The Lion In Winter” as a Christmas movie does make weird sense.

    It was set at Christmas Court at Chinon in 1183. This didn’t actually happen, but is an amalgam of the various gatherings of Henry’s family and Philip Augustus between 1183 and 1188.

  145. 145.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @raven:

    Thanks! I have not yet seen Part 2 (and everyone tells me not to bother at all with Part 3), but that 1-2 splice sounds nifty.

  146. 146.

    Steve in the ATL

    @p.a.:

    I actually liked La La Land, but that’s honestly the only musical I’ve ever enjoyed. Maybe it’s just that I’m getting old; my suspension of disbelief just never got to the point of accepting people spontaneously breaking out in song.

    I was flipping channels in a hotel room the other night and saw a bunch of people get out of theirs cars and dance and sing all over a freeway. It was one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen. I eventually realized what it was and wondered why so many people I know loved it. Maybe I’m just extra cynical tonight.

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    Code burp. Fix:

    The episode of HBO’s Dream On with Bowie for all intents and purposes channeling Peter O’Toole is a master class in playing over the top without being over the top.

  148. 148.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Musicals really require Leslie Caron. I see few exceptions to this rule.

    Ooh! Another Daddy Long-Legs fan! (Also, too, Lili, An American in Paris…)

  149. 149.

    Shalimar

    @p.a.: I frequently spontaneously break out into song, though usually only a line or verse at a time rather than entire songs. Yes, people think I am strange, but I entertain myself at least.

  150. 150.

    efgoldman

    @efgoldman: I’m also old enough to remember hours of test patterns on black & white TV, 15 minute shows (and newscasts), tobacco company sponsorships….

  151. 151.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @Steeplejack:

    That is true. I have not. Yet.

  159. 159.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet): Honestly, real musicals that don’t have Caron leave me cold. I get the concept of opera – everything is song. I can work with it. Artistic choice. The every once in awhile we sing things of musicals defeats me, except if Ms.Caron is there. FWIW, she made sure to get her US citizenship in time to vote for Obama in 2008.

  161. 161.

    opiejeanne

    @efgoldman: I saw GWTW because my college boyfriend (Barry) loved it and insisted I’d love it too. I’d read part of the original script in HS and was mightily annoyed by it.
    I had a bad cold, I had had to do a halftime at my college that afternoon, it was Thanksgiving day, and I was exhausted. I think I fell asleep over the turkey.
    About the time he was supposed to pick me up for the movie the doorbell rang and there was a delivery guy holding a flower arrangement meant for a Thanksgiving Day table. As I looked at the card, figuring it was for Mom, my boyfriend walked up behind the delivery guy, as I was reading the card that said it was from David. Barry threw a bit of a hissy fit and was looking around like he thought David was there and he was going to tell him off. Or worse.
    Understand, Barry had said the previous month that he wanted to date other people and I should too, but when I went out with David he said, “except him! Not him!”
    Whatever.
    So I went to GWTW with Barry, at a drive-in in his Karmann Ghia convertible*, with a miserable cold and a sore throat. He was sweet and bought me some hot cocoa. Then he started crying halfway through the movie, long before Bonnie Blue Butler died, and I just wanted to go home. Story about some really stupid people.

    I married David the following year; he thought the entire flower arrangement thing was hilarious when I chewed him out about it the next day. .

    *this was in Los Angeles county, so while I considered it cold and not just because I was running a fever, you would have just decided you didn’t need a sweater yet.

  163. 163.

    efgoldman

    @NotMax:

    a network newscast was actually called the Camel News Caravan.

    And it was 15 minutes. At the end, every night, they’d send multiple cases of Camels to a VA hospital somewhere.

  167. 167.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @efgoldman: went to youtube to confirm my recollection of Rob and Laura Petrie selling cigarettes. It was Kents. Even weirder, Jed and Granny pushing Winstons. Weirder still: Smoking Flintstones

  168. 168.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    It was Cronkite who fought like the dickens to make get 30 minutes.

    @lollipopguild

    Not to forget John Charles Daly, who anchored the news at ABC and at the same period in time hosted the weekly What’s My Line? on CBS.

  169. 169.

    lollipopguild

    @Duane: EFG is so old……. “How old is he?’ He grew up watching Punch and Judy hand puppets in the 1500’s in England.

  172. 172.

    opiejeanne

    @Steve in the ATL: For Angelenos that freeway scene was brilliant, and they shot it in one take, which wasn’t easy. And a lot of us recognized exactly where that was shot.
    I watched that three times before we went on with the rest of the film.

  173. 173.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @efgoldman:
    I liked GWTW a great deal. It is a fascinatingly fucked up movie about a shallow, selfish, manipulative, but certainly iron-willed woman. Scarlet is an interesting character, who people are determined to misrepresent as noble. “I will never go hungry again” in context is specifically a declaration she will eat her own pride and have sex with any man if that’s what it takes to stay rich. Her relationship with Rett is deeply tragic, as he mistakes her manipulating personality for his own sophisticated and unsentimental morality. I have been blinded by love, and I felt strongly for him and how he is destroyed by wanting so badly for this horrible woman to be something she’s not.

  175. 175.

    Fair Economist

    Trump’s response to Maria is going to be much worse than Bush’s response to Katrina. With Katrina, almost all of the deaths happened before FEMA could do anything. Bush caused a lot of suffering, but not a lot of deaths. With Maria, it seems there were relatively few deaths during the hurricane (knock wood). But with millions lacking food, clean water, sanitation, or medical supplies there are going to be a lot of deaths if something is done quickly and that will be on Trump’s head, because the vast majority would have been preventable had he (literally) sent in the Marines.

  176. 176.

    NotMax

    @lollipopguild

    Pure embellishment. All they had was Punch during his youth. Judy came later.

    :)

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Nothing against with her skills but never could warm up to Caron. As with Audrey Hepburn, looked as if the slightest breeze would snap her in two.

  178. 178.

    efgoldman

    @NotMax:

    Not to forget John Charles Daly, who anchored the news at ABC

    Many major markets didn’t even have an ABC affiliate. They were often last into a market.

  179. 179.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    The story is told that that premiere was touch and go, the last reel of film being very hastily delivered to the projection room from the processing lab just barely in time to be threaded into the carbon arc behemoth.

  180. 180.

    FlyingToaster

    @efgoldman: You’ll enjoy her. WarriorGirl looks like her dad (read nearly as tall as I am already at 10 years old), but got a double helping of musical and science genes. And is the ultimate culmination of generations of bad-tempered people. I would not want to be Lord Littlefingers around her.

    WarriorGirl was handed a recorder on Tuesday. She practices about 5 minutes with her dad every day (he plays recorder as well as singing). The school’s new music teacher is going to be even more weirded out by her — no practice homework was assigned, so she’s playing TV themes and folk songs (Hot Cross Buns, Mary Had a Little Lamb, stuff from Cartoon Network) by ear.

  181. 181.

    opiejeanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: This was 1968 and that car’s roof leaked something awful. It was an “investment”. He was going to fix what ailed it and sell it at a profit. He’d done it before with an original VW bug but he painted it purple. I never saw that car.
    Also dated (briefly) a young man with an MG, and another with a brand new Corvette. Neither lasted very long.

    David owned a 1965 Mustang, but it was butt-ugly. Bronze. Needed a new carburetor.

  183. 183.

    efgoldman

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It is a fascinatingly fucked up movie about a shallow, selfish, manipulative, but certainly iron-willed woman.

    It is also one long (L-O-N-G) paean to antebellum culture and the wonderful old days of chattel slavery.

  185. 185.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    Yup. ABC, the red-headed stepchild of TV.

    Then again, you and I remember Dumont.

    Can also recall when the rotary channel dial on TVs had a 1 on them.

  187. 187.

    opiejeanne

    @Frankensteinbeck: That assessment of the movie I whole-heartedly agree with.

    I wanted to laugh when she’s in the field and declares she’ll never be hungry again (radishes?) , but then I thought of the other people who depended on her, like Mammy, and wondered what the heck they were eating.

  188. 188.

    efgoldman

    @FlyingToaster:

    WarriorGirl looks like her dad (read nearly as tall as I am already at 10 years old), but got a double helping of musical and science genes. And is the ultimate culmination of generations of bad-tempered people.

    Sounds like our daughter 26 years ago. She’s mellowed.

  191. 191.

    efgoldman

    @FlyingToaster:

    so she’s playing TV themes and folk songs (Hot Cross Buns, Mary Had a Little Lamb, stuff from Cartoon Network

    Also sound like our daughter, but she did it with movie themes, especially Star Wars.

  193. 193.

    Fair Economist

    I read and saw GWTW as a child and liked it, kinda. To me the star was the life that was wiped out with the War of Southern Treason. Scarlett seemed like just an excuse to tell that story. I haven’t read or seen it as an adult but since I now know what the pre-war South *really* was like I expect I’d hate it as evil propaganda. Which it is.

  196. 196.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @opiejeanne: The cars matter. Weird cars get interesting folks. A VW Karmann Ghia is something pretending to be interesting. A Studebaker back then would have signified something.

  200. 200.

    NotMax

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Mentioned it in the past but always found it amusing how Studebaker tried to cover all bases by producing both a model named President and another named Dictator during the 30s.

  201. 201.

    Steeplejack

    @efgoldman:

    Many major markets didn’t even have an ABC affiliate. They were often last into a market.

    I have been thinking about this recently. I’ve been quelling Trump rage and general anxiety with old TV shows late at night on the third-tier cable channels. Found that I’ve been gravitating to shows that I didn’t see at all when I was a kid (roughly 1960-1967 for TV viewing purposes), and they seem to be mostly ABC shows. We lived in Illinois from 1960 to 1964 and didn’t have an ABC affiliate there. Moved to Texas and got an ABC affiliate by 1966, because I remember watching Batman, which started that year.

    When we visited my grandparents in Tennessee I used to marvel at the shows on the weak, snowy ABC channel from Nashville. Combat!. The Untouchables! 77 Sunset Strip! Even as a kid it bugged me that there was this whole parallel universe of TV that was not available to me.

    All of that came crashing down when we moved overseas in 1967, so we got one channel of AFRTS (Armed Forces Radio Television Service) and “Hope you have other hobbies.”

    Well, end of story. No point, really, except perhaps as a memory of the days when we didn’t have 500 cable channels on 24/7.

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    @Steeplejack:

    ETA: Lately I’ve been watching in particular the last season of 77 Sunset Strip. They got rid of everybody except Efrem Zimbalist Jr. and gave it sort of a noir spin that is really at odds with the earlier, lighter seasons. Last night the client was Cloris Leachman and her unreliable husband DeForest Kelley. Lee Van Cleef as a hit man. Also Mnemosyne favorite Bobby Troup as, of course, a jazz piano player. Go figure. Lots of famous actors in their early days.

  203. 203.

    Steeplejack

    @Duane:

    Little station where I lived in Texas, like many others, always played “High Flight” before the national anthem. Still remember all the words.

    ETA: F-104 Starfighter. One of my favorites from my model-building years.

  206. 206.

    Another Scott

    The tragedy in Puerto Rico will be with those poor people for months and years. And Donnie doesn’t give a crap. It’s infuriating.

    In other news, we should expect another DPRK missile launch in just a few days. Reuters:

    SEOUL (Reuters) – Several North Korean missiles were recently spotted moved from a rocket facility in the capital Pyongyang, South Korea’s Korean Broadcasting System (KBS) reported late Friday amid speculation that the North was preparing to take more provocative actions.

    The report cited an unnamed intelligence source saying South Korean and U.S. intelligence officials detected missiles being transported away from North Korea’s Missile Research and Development Facility at Sanum-dong in the northern part of Pyongyang.

    The report did not say when or where they had been moved.

    The missiles could be either intermediate range Hwasong-12 or intercontinental ballistic Hwasong-14 missiles, according to the report, though the missile facility at Sanum-dong has been dedicated to the production of intercontinental ballistic missiles.

    […]

    Maybe Kim thinks that if he keeps riling up Donnie that he’ll do something crazy.

    :-/

    Seriously, though, Kim has Donnie’s number. Kim will keep pushing and Donnie will keep reacting – and continuing to weaken the US’s standing in the region…

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  208. 208.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:

    God, the earlier seasons are really a trip. Kookie starts off as a valet-parking jagoff and gets promoted to junior detective in the agency. Weird. No wonder they junked all that. The last season is produced by Jack Webb and William Conrad (Cannon), who also directed some of the episodes.

    What I really wish they had kept was the unbelievably hot Jacqueline Beer, who was criminally underutilized as the secretary/​receptionist Suzanne. WTF factoid: she was married to Thor Heyerdahl from 1991 to 2002.

  210. 210.

    ? Martin

    Whoever asked Trump which two Roman emperors he would emulate as President should have anticipated he’d pick Nero and Caligula.

  213. 213.

    Mike in NC

    Hush, people. Trump had a vigorous round of golf today and will have another tomorrow. Is there a problem of failing to rescue non-white people? Big water, baby!!!

  216. 216.

    Repatriated

    @patroclus: “…of the fail??!!!!”
    (Someday I’ll figure out how to do strikethrough…)

    ETA: I’d feel a lot better if his fail didn’t have a body count.

  218. 218.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Ladyraxterinok: The most Christian President of our lifetime would be Jimmy Carter. If you’re looking for the most “Christian” (as in Mammon worshiping heretic, like Bakker and Graham and all other televangelists) President of our lifetime, THAT would be Donald.

  220. 220.

    Eljai

    @Villago Delenda Est: I can go along with that — Jimmy Carter is out there still teaching Sunday school in his 90s! The Talibangelicals fell in line behind Trump because he appealed to their greed and their white supremacist underpinnings.

  222. 222.

    lgerard

    No doubt trump will soon be “drowning” in approval by Puerto Ricans “hungry” to express their admiration and “powerless” to deny that they are “sick” of winning

  224. 224.

    Amir Khalid

    @Steeplejack:
    Do you remember Emergency!, a 1970s TV show about a pair of EMTs with the Los Angeles Fire Department? Troup played an ER doctor and his wife, the singer Julie London, played an ER nurse. (The show was produced by her ex-husband, Jack Webb.)

  225. 225.

    opiejeanne

    @efgoldman: The young men. I lost interest in Mr MG, Mr Vette was never an object of my interest but he had me come along for a fast ride so he could get to know a girl I was friendly with. They liked each other pretty darned well and I was thrilled to be in a car going over 100. Can’t remember where, maybe on one of the campus roads. It was a big campus back then: Cal Poly Pomona. All of this sorting ourselves out was between late August and Christmas of my Freshman year. Mr ‘Vette was a senior and I was 18 and he just seemed so very old. David was a junior, as it turned out but that was after I annoyed and was annoyed by a few freshman boys, including one who handcuffed me to a chair in the lounge after losing a game of 8-ball to me. The pool tables were only in the girls’ dorm back then.

  226. 226.

    opiejeanne

    @NotMax: It was the late 60s. Almost all of the boys had a car or a motorcycle and the campus was isolated from town; you really couldn’t walk there and bus service was lousy. I had my mom’s little Chevy (something?), which was a pile of junk but it ran. The paint was badly oxidized so if you rubbed against it you had a blue-green stain on your clothes. Half the time it would flood when you tried to start it. Half of these boys were not car savvy and would just about faint when I’d get out of the car and open the hood, and make a slight adjustment to one of the gizmos under the hood because a mere girl couldn’t know anything about cars and HONEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE???.

    I only knew that one trick, but most of them were impressed.

  227. 227.

    opiejeanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: How about a Dodge Dart? The one with the push button transmission? I was pretty crazy about a boy whose dad let him borrow it to take me to a dance. The rest of the time he had a Honda motorbike, and not the small one.

  228. 228.

    opiejeanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: There was a boy in my class in Sophomore English who wrote a couple of essays about the Ford Falcon. He was in the process of buying one and fixing it up. His essays were read aloud to us and made an impression on everyone because they were so full of passion, coming from a kid so quiet that we hardly knew anything about him.

  230. 230.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Amir Khalid:

    Bobby Troup was also on Perry Mason a couple of nights ago, again as a jazz musician, playing in a combo with the great guitarist Barney Kessel. “The Case of the Missing Melody,” circa 1961.

  231. 231.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Amir Khalid: I read an interesting article about that show a few years ago. I remember the show from when I was a kid. What I didn’t know is that it was apparently instrumental in popularizing the whole idea of emergency medical services and paramedics. It seems that wasn’t really a thing before that show.

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