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The gop is a fucking disgrace.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

The lights are all blinking red.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

When we show up, we win.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

A consequence of cucumbers

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

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You are here: Home / Two word review: shit sandwich

Two word review: shit sandwich

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The new Republican tax plan is a big give away to the rich that screws much of the middle-class. Call your Senators and representatives to tell them to oppose it:

The Republican tax plan would deliver a major benefit to the top 1 percent of Americans, according to a new analysis by a leading group of nonpartisan tax experts that challenges the White House’s portrayal of its effects.

[…]

Despite repeated promises from Republican lawmakers that the plan is designed to provide relief to the middle class, nearly 30 percent of taxpayers with incomes between $50,000 and $150,000 would see a tax increase, according to the study by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.

[…]

Meanwhile, the study found that 80 percent of the tax benefits would accrue to those in the top 1 percent. Households making more than about $900,000 a year would see their taxes drop by more than $200,000 on average.

Reader Interactions

138Comments

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    Those trends were credited to the loss of itemized deductions, particularly the ability to deduct state and local property taxes from income.

    The loss of the personal exemption, which shields $4,050 of income from federal taxes for every household member, also would play a major role in increasing taxes for some households, the analysis found — an effect that would get worse over time because the amount of the personal exemption kept pace with inflation.

    I can’t believe they’re going to try and sell this shit. Worse, I can’t believe they might actually be able to do so given our lazy fucking media.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    @TenguPhule:

    Those trends were credited to the loss of itemized deductions, particularly the ability to deduct state and local property taxes from income.

    This is very big. There are Republicans in the states where this could be devastating.
    And, they don’t think that those that vote for them won’t understand them voting to take this away from them on their taxes?

  6. 6.

    Fair Economist

    This plan is in real trouble, because the screwed are mostly the upper middle class which is very influential in this country. And yes, the media is extremely dishonest for saying anything other than “Trump proposed to increase the federal debt by 2 1/2 trillion dollars and give the money to himself and other very rich people”.

  7. 7.

    Kay

    Oh, good. I’m also mentioning that Trump lied about releasing his tax returns. Since he brought up taxes.

  8. 8.

    trollhattan

    O/T, smart person Mark Kleiman risks some IQ points sparring with the crack legal team of Althouse and Reynolds. Even this prologue amuses.

    having foolishly engaged via Twitter with Prof. Ann Althouse of the University of Wisconsin Law School, and having attracted counter-fire not only from the good Professor herself but from her even less adept colleague Prof. Glenn Reynolds of the University of Tennessee Law School, it seems wise, just this once, to respond at some length. Don’t read on unless you have a prurient interest in folly, or in trolling, the bastard child of folly born of its occasional dalliance with intellectual dishonesty.

    “even less adept” Heh, indeed.

  10. 10.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    And, they don’t think that those that vote for them won’t understand them voting to take this away from them on their taxes?

    Yes. SATSQ.

    History is kind to them that way.

  11. 11.

    trollhattan

    Listened yesterday to a radio story describing how among the proposed changes is a new avenue for our blessed “small bidnez owners” to plow income currently taxed as income through their bidnez as profit at a spiffy new low rate. Evidently it’s cribbed directly from Kansas, where it obviously worked wonders.

  12. 12.

    Major Major Major Major

    I’m kind of impressed, and not in a good way, that they’ve decided to stop pretending and release a tax proposal for rich people that actually hurts everybody else instead of just not helping them.

  13. 13.

    mai naem mobile

    I haven’t seen the details buy from what I hear they increase the zero tax bracket for the lowers but I am guessing most lower don’t pay federal income tax anyway so increasing the amount isn’t going to change their status. I was watching CNBC this AM and they had Quicken Loans Dan Gilbert on who was saying that people don’t buy a house because of the mortgage interest tax deduction. No, they may not but,regardless,it makes it more affordable for them. Also when you take away the mortgage interest deduction you affect the small time housing investor. So,yet again, the hedge funders with all their cash kick the small investors ass. Fuck Republicans and their family farm,family business garbage lingo. They only give a shit about really wealthy people being taken care of.

  14. 14.

    different-church-lady

    I’m so old I can remember when Occupy (blank) deserved a bunch of credit for changing the conversation against this sort of thing.

  15. 15.

    Kay

    The only reason they backed him is for the tax cuts. They shouldn’t get them. Plus if he fails they’ll turn on him because they made such a bad deal.

  16. 16.

    TenguPhule

    @trollhattan:

    Evidently it’s cribbed directly from Kansas, where it obviously worked wonders.

    Actually that’s not true.

    The Kansas LLC tax exemption resulted in people actually paying NO TAX WHATSOEVER if they laundered it through an LLC.

    Not even these crazy ass fuckers are able to get that one through. For now.

  17. 17.

    rikyrah

    @TenguPhule:

    And, they don’t think that those that vote for them won’t understand them voting to take this away from them on their taxes?

    This isn’t something that you can hide. It can’t be obscured. People understand what goes on their tax form, and when something THIS important is taken away from them on their taxes. There’s no Democrat to hide behind on this. This will be a direct vote.

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’m kind of impressed, and not in a good way, that they’ve decided to stop pretending and release a tax proposal for rich people that actually hurts everybody else instead of just not helping them.

    They don’t need a single Democratic vote. So no need for fig leaves this time.

    Its full Monty Python time.

  19. 19.

    bemused

    Republicans know their tax plan is crap for most of us and lying their heads off. 1st term MN Rep Jason Lewis, former wingnut radio talk show host, takes this to even more barfworthy level saying, “This plan is about defending the American dream, the right to fly as high as your wings will take you”. Jesus.

  20. 20.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    This isn’t something that you can hide. It can’t be obscured.

    Actually it can.

    Aside from Wapo and the FYNYT, local papers are skipping the important bits to spout the GOP line about “doubling the standard deduction!”. It’s awful, its lazy and its happening in real time.

  21. 21.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    The only reason they backed him is for the tax cuts. They shouldn’t get them. Plus if he fails they’ll turn on him because they made such a bad deal.

    He’s so ignorant. He doesn’t understand just how much they are protecting him. It’s obvious to anyone who thinks, but he thinks that they aren’t showing ENOUGH loyalty to him.

  22. 22.

    Archon

    I do think there are still a cohort of people (mostly in blue states) that don’t love Republican views on social, cultural, and environmental issues but still vote Republican mainly for tax and fiscal reasons. Telling them their taxes are going up so people richer then them can get a tax cut probably will lose them votes in those areas. Maybe however Republicans have done the calculus that losing a bunch of house seats in California and New York and losing the Presidential election 80-20 instead of 70-30 in those states doesn’t change the fundamental electoral situation.

  23. 23.

    trollhattan

    @mai naem mobile: We’re going to cut your zero to a new, better zero.”
    Must add how commonly Republicans decry the notion that so many of the poors pay no taxes and thus, have no “skin in the game.”
    “What about sales tax, FICA, state income tax, property tax, etc?” I ask?
    “That’s not the same.”
    Ugh.

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Plus if he fails they’ll turn on him because they made such a bad deal.

    He’ll blame McConnell.

    They’ll believe him.

  26. 26.

    Kay

    @TenguPhule:

    Rich people won’t believe that. It’s do or die time for Donald Trump. If we kill the giant tax cuts he won’t recover. They don’t give a shit about anything else.

  27. 27.

    Citizen Alan

    @rikyrah:

    People understand what goes on their tax form

    Assumes facts not in evidence. A HUGE percentage of anger towards Obama and the Dems was the almost religious conviction that he raised taxes on everyone when this is demonstrably not true.

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    @TenguPhule:

    He’ll blame McConnell.

    They’ll believe him.

    Maybe you two are talking about two different THEY’S.

    I thought Kay was talking about the Republicans in the House and Senate, and the Donor Class.
    Are you talking about them or the rubes that voted for Dolt45?

  29. 29.

    Ohio Mom

    What is the time line on this, that is, when is the vote?

    I’m sorta on vacation from activism this week — have a friend from out of town visiting, Jewish holidays, etc. As a result, I am losing track of the daily horrors out of D.C.

    I’ll be back up and running/calling next week.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    We need the tax equivalent of preexisting conditions. People are saying it’s raising taxes on people who make 150k a year and maybe it is but that doesn’t seem like enough. Remember how badly they want this- they backed Donald Trump to get it.

  31. 31.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Rich people won’t believe that. It’s do or die time for Donald Trump. If we kill the giant tax cuts he won’t recover. They don’t give a shit about anything else.

    True…

    And, I will quote you, Kay:

    Remember the universal “Fix the Debt” propaganda campaign they used in 2010?

    They’ll do it again as soon as they cut taxes and the magical bullshit revenue increases don’t appear because that is the plan.

    These rich people all sold their country out and backed this clown for ONE reason- so they could stop paying taxes. They have to get it now. If they don’t they sold out for nothing. This is the POINT of hiring Donald Trump. All the rest is details.

    It was an all or nothing bet and now it’s time to collect. They’ll so gut revenue you won’t recognize this country in a decade- I don’t care what you rely on- Medicare, Social Security, highways, courts- this is the Big Grab. They want all of it and they can get it all with a tax bill. Without funding it’s all bullshit and they know it. It’s Part Two to finish the job they started in 1980.

  32. 32.

    trollhattan

    Holy fucking shit, GW Bush directly criticizes Trump.

    George W. Bush on Thursday criticized Donald Trump’s decision to add North Korea to a list of nations whose citizens are banned from traveling to the United States, Business Insider reports.

    The former president made the comments at a private dinner at the Korea Society, during a Q&A session with Victor Cha—who served as Director for Asian Affairs at the National Security Council during Bush’s Administration. A source told Business Insider Bush expressed concern over the impact the travel ban will have on “dissidents and defectors” seeking freedom from the regime. The source also said Bush compared Trump’s travel ban with the North Korean Human Rights Act of 2004, which provided humanitarian aid North Koreans and promoted human rights within the country.

    Bush also addressed whether North and South Korea would every reunify. ”I’m 71, so not in my lifetime,” he said.

    Interesting that while he never (to my recollection) publicly questioned Obama, Trump managed to get him to pipe up.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    @Smiling Mortician:

    “Uneven benefits” is a pretty dishonest way of saying the poors get boned.

    As I understand it, it’s the moderately well off who get hurt the worst. The biggest tax increases will come from eliminating deductions for things like state income and property taxes, which will hurt higher income people the most. The ultra-wealthy will benefit more from reductions in the top tax bracket and capital gains rate, but the people just below them will wind up paying a fair bit more.

  36. 36.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Rich people won’t believe that.

    If McConnell and ZEGS can’t pass this shit sandwich in reconciliation, Trump would actually be telling the truth (for once) by blaming them for its failure. There’s no large ideological split on this among the Republicans in Congress. They all want to cut taxes and blow a hole in the Federal finances because Grover owns their souls.

    All of our hopes and efforts are going to be on trying to flip enough Republican votes to stop them.

  37. 37.

    burnspbesq

    Oddly enough, the states whose residents take the biggest hosing from the elimination of the state and local tax deduction are blue, blue, blue, blue, and blue.

  41. 41.

    TenguPhule

    @trollhattan:

    Holy fucking shit, GW Bush directly criticizes Trump.

    Talk about trying to shift the blame.

    Bush is a large cause for why we’re in this mess in the first place.

    Fucking Axis of evil and breaking the Clinton agreement.

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    @burnspbesq:

    Oddly enough, the states whose residents take the biggest hosing from the elimination of the state and local tax deduction are blue, blue, blue, blue, and blue.

    FEATURE, not bug

    But, in THESE states, there are enough GOP Reps – FOR WHOM THIS WOULD BE THEIR DEATH VOTE.

    I know you all think folks don’t pay attention to the tax forms..

    But, THESE districts, White, Suburban/Rural districts..

    PEOPLE WILL NOTICE THEIR TAXES GOING UP.

    It’s enough of them to take back the House, for damn sure.

  44. 44.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    PEOPLE WILL NOTICE THEIR TAXES GOING UP.

    Only once they see it on the actual form.

    Right now the media is letting the GOP peddle their bullshit unchallenged except for a few exceptions.

  45. 45.

    burnspbesq

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Probably not until at least November. There are a number of BIG issues (including but not limited to the boundaries of the brackets) left to congress to hash out.

  46. 46.

    rikyrah

    @TenguPhule:

    There’s no large ideological split on this among the Republicans in Congress. They all want to cut taxes and blow a hole in the Federal finances because Grover owns their souls.

    Stopping Trumpcare makes them put their sociopathy out front and center. Getting Trumpcare was going to enable them to hide their sociopathy.

  47. 47.

    dmsilev

    @Frankensteinbeck: Nobody knows yet. This isn’t legislation even by the dubious standards of the GOP; so far, it’s just a few pages worth of position paper. They have to actually write a bill, work out actual details, and only then schedule a vote.

  49. 49.

    burnspbesq

    @TenguPhule:

    Long before then: for a lot of people, state and local taxes are worth two withholding allowances. They will feel it in the first paycheck after it becomes effective.

  51. 51.

    rikyrah

    @TenguPhule:

    PEOPLE WILL NOTICE THEIR TAXES GOING UP.

    Only once they see it on the actual form.

    Right now the media is letting the GOP peddle their bullshit unchallenged except for a few exceptions.

    You don’t think that these people have accountants that will send them emails or contact them about this?

  52. 52.

    burnspbesq

    @TenguPhule:

    Not necessarily. There is fairly serious talk in some quarters about making the changes retroactive to 1/1/17. Which will well and truly fuck with my Christmas.

  53. 53.

    rikyrah

    @burnspbesq:

    Not necessarily. There is fairly serious talk in some quarters about making the changes retroactive to 1/1/17. Which will well and truly fuck with my Christmas

    Because, they are greedy muthaphuckas, and ALWAYS OVERREACH.

  54. 54.

    burnspbesq

    @rikyrah:

    Millions of people will be substantially under-withheld if the state and local tax deduction goes away retroactively. There will be riots in Scarsdale, Bethesda, and Irvine when the penalty and interest notices start showing up in people’s mailboxes.

  56. 56.

    randy khan

    The truest comment in the whole piece is the Republican complaining that we don’t know what’s going to be in the bill yet. Of course, he says it like things might get better, when in fact they probably will get worse.

    If you can stand the thought, reviewing the White House puff piece on the plan is pretty instructive. 9 pages, probably the average type size is around 16 points, and lots of white space (pandering to the base there, I guess). The lack of specificity is quite impressive. It’s not so much a plan as a quick sketch on a napkin.

  59. 59.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Archon:

    Maybe however Republicans have done the calculus that losing a bunch of house seats in California and New York and losing the Presidential election 80-20 instead of 70-30 in those states doesn’t change the fundamental electoral situation.

    You give them to much credit, this is about sucking up to the big GOP donors who are outraged they haven’t got the goverment they paid the GOP for and keep these donors writting checks for 2018. In fact it would better for the Republicans if they lost both the presidency and congress because then they could collect donations without the bother of trying to govern. See the California state GOP.

  60. 60.

    The Moar You Know

    Hell, I’m upper middle class as far as income goes (since I live in SoCal my lifestyle is pretty much “lower middle class”) and the proposed changes would absolutely assrape my wife and I.

    And shitcanning the personal exemption? That’s pretty much squatting and taking a dump on every poor person in America, which I imagine is exactly what the emissary of Satan who came up with this “plan” was visualizing as they wrote it out.

    There is fairly serious talk in some quarters about making the changes retroactive to 1/1/17.

    @burnspbesq: Shit, that could well cost us our house. Is that legal? Fuck, don’t tell me, I’m sure it is.

  61. 61.

    trollhattan

    @TenguPhule:
    Hate to say it but people mostly notice changes to their take-home pay and not their actual tax bill, and there are many, many examples of them dicking around with the withholding schedules to game people into thinking they just had their taxes cut.

  62. 62.

    Major Major Major Major

    I remember back in the good old days of Decemberish all my friends were pledging to donate their Trump tax cut to charities that fight his agenda. I tried telling them they wouldn’t be getting a Trump tax cut.

  63. 63.

    JMG

    There is nothing close to a bill, and unlike health care, they can’t cram something together in secret based on screwing poor people because said people got no money, Every comma in a tax bill represents a vested interest with the ability to holler loud at Congresspeople who have to listen. Not saying nothing will pass, but it’ll be way, way messier than the health care clusterfuck.

  64. 64.

    Roger Moore

    @mai naem mobile:
    There’s some question about how much the mortgage tax deduction really helps, at least in areas where most housing is already built. The basic idea is that a lot of that house price is actually for the land rather than the construction, so the price is determined by competitive bidding. If you increase the amount people can spend, it winds up driving up land prices rather than making housing more affordable. Take away the mortgage tax deduction, and it will make housing prices fall, leaving affordability about the same.

    Of course that’s really describing what happens when you institute the deduction. The problem with taking it away suddenly is that people made home-buying decisions based on the assumption they’d be able to deduct the interest. They’re going to get a big tax increase, which will hurt a lot of them badly. It will also cause the other typical effects of decreases in house prices. People who were counting on their houses as nest eggs will discover they aren’t as rich as they used to be.

  65. 65.

    gvg

    @TenguPhule: yes but…he did seem to know more (starting from a low bar) and understand more by the time he left office AND for the past 8+ years active politics have left him alone. I think there is always a kind of go along with the crowd everyone else especially all your friends are doing it pressure. Plus the actual American President always always has a lot of people lobbying him with an awareness of huge interests behind them. I speculate that it’s not an environment that is conducive to thinking clearly in. Some people can, but it’s not easy. Anyway Bush was toxic after he left so pressure left him alone. Then he watched Obama start to fix things and he now knows enough to know it’s getting fixed I think. He could have stayed in denial, but he acted like he understood more by the time he left office.
    The one thing he always got right was not giving in to xenophobia and total racism. He didn’t whip up racial hatred after 911. He actually did have important positions filled by minorities and he tried to do immigration reform. What he didn’t do was managed to stand up to his own parties long term using racial hysteria to get votes, but he wasn’t Trump and Trump must look really bad to him.
    He doesn’t have the pull with his parties voters anymore though. It’s interesting but by itself it’s not going to change things.
    I don’t know him though. However I am really glad Trump wasn’t President when 911 happened.

  66. 66.

    Cermet

    So it directly screw’s me; seems fair …that is, if all those above that range paid even more and this reduced deficit and help provide medical care for everyone.

  68. 68.

    Major Major Major Major

    @JMG: The way this bill is structured is stupid complicated.

    They could just cut capital gains, top tiers, and the estate tax and be done with it.

    @Roger Moore: Like many things, instituting the mortgage interest deduction was a bad idea, but getting rid of it is a worse one.

  69. 69.

    The Moar You Know

    I think GWB actually cares about this country.

    @different-church-lady: I’m not sure I’d go that far but he likes it here, he knows it’s been good to him, he’s probably grateful the American people have never once voted to have his family all executed for treason, and like the rest of us, he has zero interest in dying in a nuclear hellstorm.

    I DO give him major points for finally figuring out in his second term that Cheney had been manipulating and lying to him from day one, and acting on it.

  70. 70.

    germy

    @chopper:

    i honestly can’t believe they’re being this damn brazen about it.

    They have to be brazen. They’re signaling to their big donors (the ones who threatened to close their purses): “Look, we’re really trying here!”

  71. 71.

    p.a.

    I called my wingnut relatives ‘fucking morons’ to their faces when they continually puked the lie that earning into a higher income tax bracket means ALL your income is taxed at that rate. Told ’em (after I calmed down and wiped the spittle off my chin) to simply ask the IRS. Nope. Heads like cinder blocks.

    But we have to be polite so as not to provoke them to be even stupider…

  72. 72.

    burnspbesq

    @The Moar You Know:

    Nobody really knows how much retroactivity is too much. The Supremes declined to draw a bright-line rule in Carlton v. U.S.,, but the beginning of the calendar year in which the change is enacted is almost certainly OK.

  73. 73.

    bystander

    Tom Price is reportedly resigning.

    ETA It’s fun watching Price eat a whole shit dagwood served up by the Poop Corndog himself.

  74. 74.

    catclub

    1. This is aimed at the middle class the same way you aim a gun.

    Despite repeated promises from Republican lawmakers that the plan is designed to provide relief to the middle class, nearly 30 percent of taxpayers with incomes between $50,000 and $150,000 would see a tax increase, according to the study by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.

    On the Other Hand: I bet you could not find one case of a person with income over $500k/yr whose taxes would go up under this new proposal.
    Not even ONE.

  75. 75.

    TenguPhule

    @burnspbesq:

    There is fairly serious talk in some quarters about making the changes retroactive to 1/1/17. Which will well and truly fuck with my Christmas.

    Holy fucking shit. Tell me this isn’t serious.

    That’s fucking insane.

  76. 76.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    You don’t think that these people have accountants that will send them emails or contact them about this?

    Most people only see their accountants once a year at tax time.

  80. 80.

    nonynony

    @rikyrah:

    This isn’t something that you can hide. It can’t be obscured. People understand what goes on their tax form, and when something THIS important is taken away from them on their taxes. There’s no Democrat to hide behind on this. This will be a direct vote.

    There are Republicans in my acquaintance who blame Obama for Katrina and Hillary Clinton for Iraq.

    When their taxes go up they’ll blame Obama. Especially the ones with 10 kids who lose their dependent benefits – you can be damn sure that they’ll be blaming Obama and Nancy Pelosi and, if they can figure out how, Hillary Clinton. They might – might – blame Mitch McConnell before they go pull the lever for whatever Republican is running against Sherrod Brown in 2018 (probably Josh Mandel – why TF does Josh Mandel keep showing up on my goddamn ballots?)

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    TOM PRICE HAS RESIGNED FROM HHS (’scuse my shouting, but I’m happy!)

  84. 84.

    Another Scott

    CBPP:

    […]

    The Plan’s Reconciliation Instructions

    Under the budget plan unveiled today, the Senate Finance Committee would receive a reconciliation instruction to produce legislation that would “increase the deficit by not more than $1,500,000,000,000” over ten years. This means that the Finance Committee could cut taxes by more than $1.5 trillion as long as it cut entitlement programs under its jurisdiction — like Medicaid, Medicare, and Supplemental Security Income for poor seniors and people with disabilities — sufficiently to bring the net cost down to $1.5 trillion.

    [blink]This feature of the reconciliation instruction would also, as noted, give the Finance Committee leeway to include measures in its reconciliation bill to pursue repeal of the ACA, if GOP leaders concluded they could get 50 votes for the combined package on the Senate floor.[/blink] Senate GOP leaders currently appear more inclined to make another run at ACA repeal early in 2018, after completing work on the tax-cut bill. But the Senate budget plan’s structure would enable them to alter that strategy if the Senate landscape changes.

    Plan Also Calls for Deep Cuts in Health Care, Other Entitlements, and Non-Defense Discretionary Programs

    In addition to its reconciliation instructions, the Senate budget plan calls for $4 trillion over the coming decade in cuts to entitlement programs, including programs providing health care and other basic assistance to families with modest incomes. The plan also calls for $632 billion in cuts over the 2019-2027 period to non-defense discretionary programs, which include investments in areas like education, job training, and scientific research that can support economic growth, as well a broad swath of public services such as law enforcement, environmental protection, infrastructure, weather forecasting, national parks, and Social Security field office operations. The budget calls for these austerity cuts, which would affect virtually all Americans, even as its tax cuts would dig the deficit hole deeper.

    Most of the proposed budget cuts likely won’t be enacted this year. But they reflect policies that Senate Republican leaders favor and may pursue at a later point after enacting their tax cuts.

    What do we have to do?

    We have to fight them every single day. They won’t give up and we can’t either.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  85. 85.

    mai naem mobile

    Tom Price (Asshole,GA) resigned. Now he will go make gobs of money with his insider information on any health care legislation.

  86. 86.

    efgoldman

    @p.a.:

    I called my wingnut relatives ‘fucking morons’ to their faces when they continually puked the lie that earning into a higher income tax bracket means ALL your income is taxed at that rate.

    Before I retired from Enormous Brokerage and Mutual Funds LLC, I worked with a woman who regularly refused any and all freely available overtime, and in slow times, sought voluntary (unpaid) time off. She insisted that taxes ate up every dime beyond her basic 40 hours, which was arithmetically impossible.

  87. 87.

    Jeffro

    @JMG:

    There is nothing close to a bill, and unlike health care, they can’t cram something together in secret based on screwing poor people because said people got no money, Every comma in a tax bill represents a vested interest with the ability to holler loud at Congresspeople who have to listen. Not saying nothing will pass, but it’ll be way, way messier than the health care clusterfuck.

    Agreed. This polls worse than “should we repeal Obamacare” – the country (other than the 1%) is quite clear that this sucks, the rich should pay more not less, ditto for corporations.

    And from what I’m seeing, the mainstream media is doing a pretty good job reporting it as the bullshit that it is.

    Catherine Rampell had a pretty good 1-2 punch today in the Post. Her first punch is one she’s already put out there: the more growth a politician assumes in their tax plan, the more b.s. it’s likely to be (to try and justify their tax-cutting, magic-revenue-generating predictions).

    Punch #2:

    I propose a corollary to my earlier rule [first punch].

    Here it is: If you promise that your policy will “pay for itself” through faster economic growth, you must commit — in advance — to cutting the programs you love most if that growth doesn’t materialize.

    For Republicans, that means writing language into their tax bill lopping trillions off defense spending. Hey, if they truly believe their plan won’t cost a dime, surely there’s no risk to our national security.

    I’ll go her one better: if the policy is going to “pay for itself”, but then doesn’t…the tax cuts have to be paid back by the recipients to the Treasury, with interest. What say ye, 1%ers?

  89. 89.

    FlipYrWhig

    @trollhattan:

    Hate to say it but people mostly notice changes to their take-home pay and not their actual tax bill

    I think people, maybe even a substantial majority of people, see it as two completely different processes.

    There’s what happens when you get your paycheck, which involves the government grabbing the money you worked hard for.

    And then there’s what happens when you file your taxes, which involves you cleverly outwitting the government into giving you some of it back.

    How many people do you think understand that how it usually works is that you overpay little by little (“withholding”) and then get a refund? I feel like maybe 5% of the public understands this at all.

  93. 93.

    trollhattan

    @efgoldman:
    I have known, probably still know, folks who “believe” that the very nanosecond their income breaks into the next tax bracket, that bracket becomes enraged and claws back all the prior income taxed at the previous rate(s). You cannot talk them out of this belief, which also leads them to the bizarre behaviors you just described.

  94. 94.

    burnspbesq

    @TenguPhule:

    Every competently managed law and accounting firm has been sending out or posting client alerts since Tuesday. I can probably find the link to ours.

  96. 96.

    jl

    @Another Scott: thanks, the info in your comment seems consistent with a Krugman blog post from yesterday that I had a hard time understanding. Seems like efforts to slash Medicaid will continue, now folded up with efforts to slash Medicare and Social Security in Senate Finance committee.

    Will be harder to fight tax cuts among GOP ‘moderates’, but if part of this summer’s attempts to destroy PPACA are folded into tax slash plan, important tot know that. First, important to know for substance on providing adequate care. Second, give more levers to pressure people like Collins, Murkowski and McCain to do the right thing.

  97. 97.

    catclub

    @JMG:

    Every comma in a tax bill represents a vested interest with the ability to holler loud at Congresspeople who have to listen. Not saying nothing will pass, but it’ll be way, way messier than the health care clusterfuck.

    Of course, if this actually mattered. lots of GOP senators would have been screaming against they ACA repeal, but only three actually opposed it.
    Remember when every single health interest group (Hospitals, doctors, nurses, insurance co’s) opposed the bill and still only three GOP senators opposed it? Now if the leadership says “This is a shit sandwich, but it is the only chance to pass a tax cut, we have to stand together.” There is a good chance they will.

  99. 99.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    @trollhattan:

    Dunno. I think he did it a little more egregiously than the others, but also, of course, he has consistently failed to deliver on “repeal and replace,” so perhaps the chartered plane thing was more an excuse than the proximate cause.

    ETA: I hope he flies home to Georgia in coach on an overcrowded, smelly, delayed flight. I’d make the trip to Hartsfield-Jackson to greet jeer at him on arrival.

  100. 100.

    TenguPhule

    VA chief took in Wimbledon, river cruise on European work trip; wife’s expenses covered by taxpayers

    Five. FIVE REPUBLICANS STEALING FROM THE PUBLIC PURSE.

    Nearly three days into a trip to Europe this past July, Veterans Affairs Secretary David Shulkin had attended a Wimbledon championship tennis match, toured Westminster Abbey and taken a cruise on the Thames.

    The 10-day trip was not entirely a vacation. Shulkin was in Europe for meetings with Danish and British officials about veterans’ health issues.

    Yet he and his wife spent about half their time sightseeing, including shopping and touring historic sites, according to an itinerary obtained by The Washington Post and confirmed by a U.S. official familiar with their activities.

    Shulkin’s six-person traveling party included his acting undersecretary of health and her husband, his chief of staff and another aide, the itinerary says. They were accompanied by a security detail of as many as six people.

    The agency said Friday that the government paid airfare for Merle Bari, Shulkin’s wife, because she was traveling on “approved invitational orders.” The government also provided a per diem for her meals, the agency said.

    While some Trump administration Cabinet members have faced scrutiny over their use of private and government jets, Shulkin traveled on a commercial flight, seated in coach on at least one leg.

    ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

  101. 101.

    clay

    @trollhattan: I seem to recall a moment over the summer when Trump was talking about the Trumpcare Bill, and he looked over towards Price and said in that joking-not-joking way, “Tom’s doing a great job. But if this doesn’t pass, he may be in trouble.” And everyone laughed because they have to suck up to the asshole.

    But it may be that Trump was pissed at him over the failure to repeal Obamacare. (Even though I’m not sure what all he had to do with it…?)

  102. 102.

    CaseyL

    Tom Price has resigned!!….

    ….now, one wonders what other deeply corrupt complete douchecanoe Trump will name to replace him.

  104. 104.

    TenguPhule

    The rift between the Iraqi government and Kurdish leaders vying for independence grew wider Friday, with Baghdad imposing a ban on international flights to airports operated by the Kurdish government — and Iraqi troops preparing to seize the Kurdish region’s border controls.

    The flight ban was the first major step taken by Iraq’s central government to express its outrage over a referendum Monday on independence. Nearly 93 percent of voters in the Kurdistan region approved taking steps toward declaring an autonomous Kurdish state in northern Iraq.

    Baghdad has further threatened to close land borders between Kurdistan and the rest of Iraq and to send troops into the disputed oil-rich city of Kirkuk, heightening concerns in Washington and regional capitals of a fresh wave of armed conflict in an already combustible country battling the Islamic State.

    Iraqi soldiers are massing on the Iranian and Turkish sides of the border with the Kurdish region, preparing to take control of the crossings from Kurdish authorities, according to a senior Iraqi official familiar with the plan. The Iraqi army chief of staff traveled to both countries this week to coordinate the move, the official said, which could be launched as early as Saturday.

    Paging Adam, Iraq about to go plaid.

  105. 105.

    JMG

    @catclub: As I said, I believe something will pass, but my guess is the increases in people’s taxes will go away. Gored oxen are angry oxen.

  107. 107.

    clay

    @CaseyL: One wonders if the Senate has the inclination to do more confirmation hearings.

    They were discussing this on Morning Joe today. The panel agreed that Price probably was done for, but only if Trump could find a replacement. (Most seemed to think that finding someone to work for this WH would be difficult for some reason.)

    Then someone asked if HHS could run without a head. The answer was yes, for a while, but eventually they’d need to fill the position.

    Then someone pointed out that Trump never nominated someone for DHS since Kelly went became Chief of Staff! I didn’t even realize this — we don’t have anyone running the Department of Homeland Security, or anyone even chosen to run it!

  108. 108.

    trollhattan

    @SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet): @clay:
    Trump’s such a shallow dolt I can well believe he blames Price along with that no-good congress and since he can’t technically fire congress (actual question: when did Trump discover for the first time he can’t fire senators or congressmen. Was it in summer? Last week?) he might as well fire the person with “health” in his title.

  111. 111.

    jl

    Middle class as most people think of it actually gets some smashed crumbs of old rancid peanuts in tax reduction from Trumpster plan.

    The one group that actually takes a hit is very upper middle class and affluent but not really rich population, in terms of annual income. The ‘not quite rich’, and ‘not quite rich enough to be a player’ class. I’d guess that a lot of Trump support comes from the economically insecure white bigots in these two groups.

    So, seems like a betrayal. But betrayal seems to be a principle of the Trumpsters in government. Maybe Trump will blame it on Obama, or if that is obviously too ridiculous, ‘previous presidents who left me a mess’.

  112. 112.

    clay

    @rikyrah:

    These rich people all sold their country out and backed this clown for ONE reason- so they could stop paying taxes. They have to get it now. If they don’t they sold out for nothing. This is the POINT of hiring Donald Trump. All the rest is details.

    This is a good point. I want to add that, similarly, the evangelicals backed Trump for one reason as well — to get the Supreme Court to ban abortion. And they’ve actually gotten what they want. (At least, as much as Trump can do for now.) So the fundies have no reason to regret their vote.

  116. 116.

    The Moar You Know

    People who were counting on their houses as nest eggs will discover they aren’t as rich as they used to be.

    @Roger Moore: My home is my wife’s and my retirement. Torpedo that, and we will be living under that famous overpass with the curtain rods and sparrows.

  117. 117.

    mai naem mobile

    @CaseyL: they’re discussing it on Nicole Wallaces show. He’s names the assistant to the assistant to the assistant HHS Secretary because theres nobody else available. Dumbasses Jared and Pence and their not having lots of experienced competent people to supposedly sav-a-buck(in reality it’s to allow you to be more corrupt.)

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    @Fair Economist:

    And yes, the media is extremely dishonest for saying anything other than “Trump proposed to increase the federal debt by 2 1/2 trillion dollars and give the money to himself and other very rich people”.

    What should the media be saying?

    @burnspbesq:

    There is fairly serious talk in some quarters about making the changes retroactive to 1/1/17.

    Yep. The GOP wants to give Trump a maximum win here, so major changes would be rolled back to Jan 1, 2017.

  119. 119.

    Elizabelle

    @jl: I want Price to have to pay back every penny of the charters — excluding the cost of commercially scheduled airfares for himself and necessary staff.

    Don’t let him walk away having denuded the Treasury.

  120. 120.

    Roger Moore

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    In fact it would better for the Republicans if they lost both the presidency and congress because then they could collect donations without the bother of trying to govern.

    Only in the short term. The ultra-rich who have been funding them aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their hearts; they demand results. We’ve already heard that the Koch brothers are threatening to stop funding them unless they can repeal the ACA and lower their taxes, and I doubt they’re the only ones who feel that way. If the Republicans think they can keep sucking at the Koch/Mercer/Adelson/etc. teat without ever delivering, they’re going to get a rude awakening.

  121. 121.

    jl

    @mai naem mobile: A good development for now. They don’t have the administrative talent to fill out the ranks, which is odd for a government run by extremely competent business people who know how to run an organization, but there you are. Will be more difficult to do bad things, which is all they do. Have to hope nothing in the real world happens that demands organizational competence. Hurricane season will soon be over, so… let’s cross our fingers.

  122. 122.

    Monala

    @Citizen Alan: Yeah. On another site, someone who prepares taxes talked about how he had to try to convince people, even showing them their returns, that they had higher refunds than previously, and they wouldn’t believe him.

  127. 127.

    Redshift

    @JMG:

    Not saying nothing will pass, but it’ll be way, way messier than the health care clusterfuck.

    The thing that gives me some optimism on this is that they’re going through the same BS process they did with health care, of having a small group meet behind closed doors (even excluding most Republicans.) They’re talking no input from anyone about how to make the numbers add up, how to disguise the ways they’re screwing over the non-rich, or anything. Their main motivation for this process, which some of them have admitted, is to not have any details leak and try to introduce it and pass it before anyone finds out how bad it is.

    But unlike with health care, they’re sure it’ll work this time because they all love tax cuts.

    Most of these dim bulbs are probably too stupid to understand anything deeper than “tax cuts good,” but their upper-income constituents and their accountants sure are, and the idea this could get through the House and the Senate before anyone finds out what’s in it is just delusional.

  128. 128.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule: RE: Iraqi soldiers are massing on the Iranian and Turkish sides of the border with the Kurdish region, preparing to take control of the crossings from Kurdish authorities, according to a senior Iraqi official familiar with the plan. The Iraqi army chief of staff traveled to both countries this week to coordinate the move, the official said, which could be launched as early as Saturday.

    Paging Adam, Iraq about to go plaid.

    It’s going to be a rocking weekend in a number of hot spots. From the BBC:

    Tens of thousands of people have turned out in Barcelona for the closing rally in the campaign for Catalonia’s banned independence referendum.

    Supporters of the ballot are determined to vote on Sunday in the teeth of opposition from Spain’s authorities.

    Thousands of extra police have been drafted in from across Spain as the government seeks to stop the ballot…

    Whoa. Been away from the Intertubes. Tom Price resigns? Priceless…

  129. 129.

    MisterForkbeard

    @TenguPhule: Wow. In effect, “We’re going to remove and all independence and expert knowledge from our bills, so they have a better chance of passing.”

    Instead of, you know, trying to make the bills non-catastrophic so they can pass.

  130. 130.

    Brachiator

    BTW, a major disaster relief bill has passed and is on its way to the White House for signing

    The House approved a revised Disaster Tax Relief and Airport and Airway Extension Bill of 2017 (HR 3823 ) on September 28 by a 264-to-155 vote. The measure was then sent to the Senate, where it was approved by unanimous consent the same day, but with an amendment removing a flood insurance provision. The House quickly approved the amended version.

    The Disaster Tax Relief and Airport and Airway Extension Act of 2017, as now approved by the Senate will, among other things:

    —eliminate the current law requirements in the disaster areas that uncompensated personal casualty losses exceed 10 percent of adjusted gross income to qualify for deduction;

    —eliminate the current law requirement that taxpayers itemize deductions to access this tax relief;

    —provide an exception to the 10-percent early retirement plan withdrawal penalty for qualified hurricane relief distributions

    —allow for the re-contribution of retirement plan withdrawals for home purchases cancelled due to eligible disasters;

    —provide flexibility for loans from retirement plans for qualified hurricane relief;

    —temporarily suspend limitations on charitable contribution deductions associated with qualified hurricane relief made before December 31, 2017;

    —provide a tax credit for 40 percent of wages (up to $6,000 per employee) paid by a disaster-affected employer to each employee from a core disaster area; and

    —allow taxpayers to refer to earned income from the immediately preceding year for purposes of determining the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit for the 2017 tax year.

  132. 132.

    Sab

    @rikyrah: You are so right on this. The upper middle class will be in for year end tax planning during the last quarter of the year. They will be talking to their accountants beginning next month and on through the end of December. Of course the accountants will discuss it’s impact.

    These taxpayers will be losing their dependents’ personal exemptions. They will be losing their state and local income, property and sales tax deductions. Their elderly parents will be losing the medical deduction that makes nursing home expenses affordable.

    These taxpayers (or the white ones) are both Trump’s and the Republican party’s base.

    This should be interesting.

  133. 133.

    goblue72

    @Archon: It doesn’t. And Democrats need an even bigger wave election than 2006 / 2008 to take back the House in 2018. And the number House seats occupied by GOP in Dem-leaning districts is a mere 7.

    GOP knows this.

  135. 135.

    Brachiator

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Wow. In effect, “We’re going to remove and all independence and expert knowledge from our bills, so they have a better chance of passing.”

    The Republicans previously went on Fox News and other venues to try to say that the CBO scoring was inaccurate, but this didn’t take. So, instead they have now decided to just bypass it.

    Yeah, this group is absolutely craven.

  137. 137.

    Chyron HR

    @goblue72:

    Congratulations, it must be very satisfying for you to see the country destroyed as punishment for failing to worship the junior senator from Vermont as a literal god.

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