Great op-ed in the NY Times by Steve Israel:
First, just like everything else in Washington, the gun lobby has become more polarized. The National Rifle Association, once a supporter of sensible gun-safety measures, is now forced to oppose them because of competing organizations. More moderation means less market share. The gun lobby is in a race to see who can become more brazen, more extreme.
Second, congressional redistricting has pulled Republicans so far to the right that anything less than total subservience to the gun lobby is viewed as supporting gun confiscation. The gun lobby score is a litmus test with zero margin for error.
Third, the problem is you, the reader. You’ve become inoculated. You’ll read this essay and others like it, and turn the page or click another link. You’ll watch or listen to the news and shake your head, then flip to another channel or another app. This horrific event will recede into our collective memory.
That’s what the gun lobbyists are counting on. They want you to forget. To accept the deaths of at least 58 children, parents, brothers, sisters, friends as the new normal. To turn this page with one hand, and use the other hand to vote for members of Congress who will rise in another moment of silence this week. And next week. And the foreseeable future.
The Republicans don’t care about dead citizens unless it can enhance their political power or please their corporate masters.
MattF
I believe they actually want dead citizens because it keeps the base riled up. ‘You gotta keep ObamaandHillary from takin’ our guns away!’
stinger
If the slaughter of 20 first-graders didn’t do it, nothing will.
Tim C.
Exactly, if the murder is committed by a scary non-white, it’s treated as a sign of the inevitable savagery of the Other. If its a mass murder by a white person….. then it’s just these things happen. All so they worship the dark god of the gun.
JPL
Luckovich understands what the problem is.. http://luckovich.blog.myajc.com/2017/10/02/1003-mike-luckovich-checklist/
MattF
@Tim C.: @stinger: Speaking of which.
bemused
I wonder if Caleb Keeter will stick to his strong statement changing his mind 2nd Amendment issue. I think he is going to get Dixie Chicked hard if it isn’t already happening.
rikyrah
Happy 25th Anniversary to 44 and Forever FLOTUS :)
Patricia Kayden
@stinger: Our only hope is for voters to wake the hell up and stop electing politicians who put guns above their fellow citizens.
rikyrah
@stinger:
20 WHITE first-graders.
Fixed it for you.
buckguy
This kind of commentary is pretty tiresome. Oddly, no one ever looks at what happened to the gun control orgs. there was a time when the only thing that would be editorialzed on tv was gun control. The gun control people controlled the narrative and had a formidable fund raising machine. The things that aren’t obvious today like the support of sheriffs and police chiefs was front and center. It’s one thing to criticize the obvious power of NRA et al., but there needs to be an examination of why a once potent alternative has been reduced to a whisper. I suspect the orgs got used to raising money and not doing anything. That’s what’s happened with abortion and it was part of the problem with national Planned Parenthood.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I’m gonna paraphrase something Josh Marshall wrote a while back:
As a society, we’ve made a choice. It is an acceptable (unfortunately) point of view in this country that we have to regularly water the tree of liberty with the blood of innocents. It is an accepted price for our precious “freedumbs”, well, one freedumb. It’s just baked into the cake of ‘Murkin culture at this point: we are a violent culture and that seems just fine and dandy with us.
Gun violence is our Syria–an intractable problem with no end in sight. The core problem is culture, not law. Maybe in the long run we can pass laws that stigmatize and undercut the fetishization of The Gun for non-sporting use that could make a cultural difference. But it’s gonna take a loooong time.
I hope I’m wrong. I never thought I’d see a black president, or marriage equality. But I’m not hopeful.
rikyrah
@Tim C.:
From Another Blog about group reaction when they heard about the shooting in Las Vegas:
James Powell
@Patricia Kayden:
In other words, there is no hope.
rikyrah
Pruitt Meets Almost Exclusively with Industry Executives
By ERIC LIPTON and LISA FRIEDMAN
OCT. 3, 2017
WASHINGTON — For lunch on April 26, Scott Pruitt, the new administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, dined with top executives from Southern Company, one of the nation’s largest coal-burning electric utilities, at Equinox, a white-tablecloth favorite of Washington power brokers.
That evening, it was on to BLT Prime, a steakhouse inside the Trump International Hotel in Washington, for a meal with the board of directors of Alliance Resource Partners, a coal-mining giant whose chief executive donated nearly $2 million to help elect President Trump.
Before those two agenda items, Mr. Pruitt met privately with top executives and lobbyists from General Motors to talk about their request to block an Obama administration move to curb emissions that contribute to climate change.
It was just a typical day for Mr. Pruitt, the former Oklahoma attorney general. Since taking office in February, Mr. Trump’s E.P.A. chief has held back-to-back meetings, briefing sessions and speaking engagements almost daily with top corporate executives and lobbyists from all the major economic sectors that he regulates — and almost no meetings with environmental groups or consumer or public health advocates, according to a 320-page accounting of his daily schedule from February through May,
BruceFromOhio
That would be a selling point in some circles.
@rikyrah: @comrade scotts agenda of rage: @rikyrah: All of these.
Elizabelle
Really good reader comment on the NY Times/Israel op ed, re the Supreme Court’s complicity:
I wonder if the USSC might be more sensitive to protests than the NRA congresswhores?
Lapassionara
@rikyrah: This.
rikyrah
I agree. It’s the only Senate race this year. And, if Dems can’t stand up for a guy who put the Klan in jail……
sometimes, you really do have to things on principle.
Please Contest the Alabama Senate Race
by Martin Longman
October 2, 2017
On a day like today, I don’t much want to write about electoral politics or anything else. So this will be brief.
In Alabama, we have on the one side a Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate, Doug Jones, who is best known for locking up the Klansmen who had escaped accountability for more than a quarter century after having bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama.
On the other side, we have a Republican candidate, Roy Moore, who in 2004 opposed Amendment 2 to the state constitution. Amendment 2 would have removed language in Alabama’s constitution that requires separate schools for “white and colored children.” It also would have stricken references to poll taxes, a form of black disenfranchisement used in the state during the Jim Crow era. These remnants of the pre-Civil Rights period have no legal meaning anymore since they’ve been superseded by federal law. But they remain on the books as a kind of lasting stain. Moore didn’t want the language taken out because it “would have allowed federal judges to force the state to fund public school improvements with increased taxes.”
Right now, in Washington, there are Democratic leaders and strategists who are trying to decide how much if anything to invest to help Doug Jones beat Roy Moore. They’re afraid of their own shadows, fearing that their support will convince Alabamans to vote against the candidate who locks up Klansmen instead of the candidate who appears to be a Klansman.
Gin & Tonic
@rikyrah: They were not all white.
Major Major Major Major
@Elizabelle:
I imagine John Roberts cares a little. But otherwise no. That fat fuck Scalia did things just to piss off protesters sometimes and I don’t expect the pretender in the stolen seat to act any differently.
Snarki, child of Loki
If only Obama had stepped up, when he had the chance, and ordered drone-strikes on
gun showsterrorist arms depots.But he Didn’t. Even. Try.
James Powell
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
As I stated above, I’m not hopeful either. I never thought I’d see a black president or marriage equality, sure, but I also never expected a corrupt, unapologetic racist I grab ’em by the pussy misogynist to win the presidency and even after demonstrating complete unfitness for the office he would still have the press/media working hard to normalize him.
rikyrah
Why The 1 Percent Needs Google and Facebook
Oligarchy is hard to pull off, but manipulative social media makes the job a whole lot easier.
by Jonathan Taplin
October 3, 2017
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@stinger: Or even the shooting of R members of Congress on a baseball field.
Amaranthine RBG
Just heard someone on KQED San Francisco public radio explaining how background checks would prevent massacres like Las Vegas.
So I am all for that.
rikyrah
How Mitch McConnell Paved the Way For Trump
By abandoning any agenda during the Obama years, the GOP’s only remaining appeal was to the nativist insurgents.
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 3, 2017
Back in early 2016, Jon Favreau wrote that “Every election is a competition between two stories about America.” That struck me as fundamentally true. He went on to accurately articulate the story about American that Donald Trump was telling, which hasn’t really changed since back then.
…………………………….
In that answer, Brooks hits on a lot of the Republicans themes I’ve been identifying over the last few years. First of all, the Republican story was decimated during the George W. Bush presidency. Both his implementation of their economic and foreign policy were a disaster.
In response, the GOP didn’t re-think their story. Instead, under the leadership of Mitch McConnell, they abandoned any attempt to do so in favor of obstructing whatever the Democrats tried to do. The “party of no” ensured that government wouldn’t work. In order to make that fly, they stoked the fear-mongering of the racist wing of their party against this country’s first African American president. Donald Trump simply played along with his birther lies, while their 2012 nominee, Mitt Romney, welcomed his endorsement.
When Trump came along to ride that wave to the presidency, he simply appropriated the fear-mongering story and turned it against them, leaving them with nothing. When Brooks says that Steve Bannon is telling a nationalist story, that is what he is referring to. It is what has been called the politics of resentment, the appeal to nostalgia voters and the confederate insurgency. As Favreau articulated above, that is the story Trump ran on and, while he chose the wrong side in the Alabama run-off by endorsing Strange, it was Bannon and Moore who took over the story.
Tokyokie
I have long felt that sane people should adopt the approach of Mothers Against Drunk Driving in regard to guns. Not that long ago, driving drunk was a socially acceptable behavior, something that ordinary people might do after having a couple too many after a night of playing bridge. But after a lengthy campaign of shaming, MADD has changed attitudes toward drunk driving, resulting in tougher laws and stricter enforcement. Thus, we need to condemn gun-humpers and their supporters for the wickedness that consumes them. Luckily for our side, the facts are one our side. Every last person who has modified an AR-15 to full auto, or feels the need for a 50-round magazine, or who owns far more firearms than are necessary for hunting or self-defense is a pervert. Full stop. Without exception. They might spew some argle-bargle about 2nd Amendment solutions and government tyranny, but the truth is, even armed with their arsenals, not one of them is capable of lasting more than a few minutes against a better-trained, better-equipped SWAT team or military unit. What these armaments caches are good for, and all that they are good for, as we saw Sunday, is mowing down scores of unarmed people. Period. And anybody who wants to do that is a sicko, a pervert who harbors disgusting eliminationist fantasies, who strongly believes that the 2nd Amendment guarantees his God-given right to strut around in public with his penis substitute and force everybody he encounters to change their lawful behavior because of the grandness of his mighty penis substitute.
These people are, without exception, sexual deviants. And Republican politicians, as their full-throated supporters, are even more loathsome.
A Ghost To Most
@rikyrah: I’m not waiting for Dem leadership to step up. I’ve already sent money to Doug Jones.
p.a.
@Elizabelle:
Protests from whom? They live cosseted lives hidden away from the public, eat at the very best restaurants where it would be unthinkable for other patrons to call them out in public; might be seated by the kitchen next time dontcha know. Private resorts and clubs (wonder if Clay the Sphinx has much melanin company at any?) AND constant invites to speechify at all the best law schools, where they seldom (but not never) get challenged.
Mnemosyne
@buckguy:
Nobody ever looks at what turned the NRA from a hunters’ advocacy organization into lobbyists for the gun manufacturers, either.
Betty Cracker
Senator Chris Murphy wrote an op-ed for the Post, pointing out that the overwhelming majority of Americans support sensible gun control measures and that NRA isn’t as all-powerful as it seems. He’s right. Nothing will happen in the short term, but we can’t give up.
Neophema
Call/write/email your congresscritters. They probably won’t do anything, but it’s important to let them know that “thoughts and prayers” is not a solution.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I think maybe we’re on the wrong track here. We’re letting this slaughter depress us when our hearts should be singing! This is American exceptionalism! We do this better than anybody else. We should be looking at these bloodbaths and cheering, “Yes, we can!” We set a record yesterday: 59 dead and 527 wounded in one go! Time was, you’d only hear about numbers like that when a squad of Guatemalan soldiers would go into an indigenous town and blow away everybody who lived there, but no more. Now we can show the world that a country can do this to its own citizens in peacetime!
Maybe this seems callous or savage or even deranged, but it really isn’t, not when you take the time to think about it. This isn’t going to stop. It isn’t going to end. Some ambitious, enterprising loner is going to take it upon himself to break that record. Shit. 59 dead is for pikers. Let’s shoot for 100. Maybe 200. How high can we go? Let’s find out!
As I said, this is going to keep happening. And as long as we can’t stop it, why let it get us down? Let’s take some pride in what we do better than anybody else on Earth. This is a celebration! America first!
Barbara
@MattF: I don’t know whether they want dead citizens, but I do believe that many people who are NRA dead-enders seem to believe that mass carnage will be visited mostly on people who are part of demographic groups that don’t include them. Why they believe this I don’t know, but when you look at the more recent mass slaughters prior to this latest, they were aimed at gays (Orlando), little kids in bright blue Connecticut, local government workers in California, and African American church goers in Charleston, SC. The random forays into private places of employment like the UPS location in San Francisco are just another day at the office for the NRA and Congress. No need to even get excited. So when the spirit and energy goes out of country music fans being asked to stand and cheer for Smith and Wesson, maybe we will see the NRA plateau and start losing members. Because it’s not fun when there are real people who are dead and injured in ways that you can’t ignore, and not because they were criminals or didn’t know gun safety or didn’t follow orders, however, incoherent, from police. When you can’t even make the pretense of the pathetic justifications for someone’s death.
Laura
@Major Major Major Major:
I imagine John Roberts cares a little.
Nope, Mr. Balls and Strikes has and agenda and Alito, Thomas and especially Gorsuch have an agenda and the lifetime position, so I do not believe the inconvenience of uprobrium will delay their plan to bring back the gilded age and deliver it to The Owners of America:
https://youtu.be/njV0HmKURgU
low-tech cyclist
The problem is, there are so many competing issues. CHIP hasn’t been renewed yet. Even though we’ve saved the ACA from legislative repeal, the Trumpists are busily gutting it administratively. The Republicans are working on a ‘starve the beast’ tax cut plan. Puerto Rico is still a disaster. Trump’s saber-rattling with North Korea, and publicly telling his Secretary of State to fuck this diplomacy shit. Would be nice to keep Iran nuke-free, but Trump would clearly like to trash that deal. Climate change. Voting rights. They’re all Big Fucking Deals.
And with guns, we’re up against people who care about guns far more than they care about everything else. You mention guns online, and they come out of the woodwork in droves. That’s why we got nowhere even after Newtown. And if 20 dead first-graders didn’t move the needle – and we gave it our best shot then – why should this be any different?
So yes, it’s fucking awful that this is futile, but I’m not seeing a reason to believe this time is different. I’m gonna call my Congresscritters about CHIP today, not guns.
p.a.
@Mnemosyne: has somebody done a liberal DNA splice at politico on the qt? Or is it just that everyone else has devolved and made them occasionally acceptable (and exceptional)?
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah:
Yes indeed, berating the Ds is the ticket to a colorblind workers utopia. Was this Longman person a BS supporter during the primaries?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MattF: no link because the only quote I could find was breitbart, but trump was demagoguing about guns in Alabama not two weeks ago
I think he went on a bit more. As he does
schrodingers_cat
Why do people expect one incident to change the dynamics of a problem, when has that happened. To enact any social or societal change is always a long drawn out struggle.
Kathleen
@rikyrah: Their anniversary is the same day as my birthday!Happy Anniversary Dear Obamas!
Wapiti
@Amaranthine RBG:
My idle thought yesterday drifted to requiring (1) a new background check for each weapon bought, and (2) an ever increasing number of personal recommendations from your friends and neighbors – within the community – for each additional gun. So to buy one gun, you need to have one friend. To buy two guns, you need two additional friends. To own ten guns it would take a cumulative 55 friends attesting that you’re a good and responsible person.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@p.a.: I suspect it has to do with Jim Vande Hei, who is rumored to have had a framed copy of the Clinton articles of impeachment hanging in his office, left to start Axios. I saw him on TV a couple of times early in the Obama years, bellowing incoherently about how we needed to cut spending in response to the crash
rikyrah
Congressional Republicans still back looser gun restrictions
10/03/17 08:00 AM
By Steve Benen
In the wake of the devastating mass shooting in Las Vegas, several Democratic policymakers are renewing their push for measures intended to reduce gun violence. Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), for example, said yesterday he’s moving forward with a proposal to strengthen background checks – an idea that’s long enjoyed broad national support.
Also yesterday, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) reached out to House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), requesting that Congress create a bipartisan select committee on gun violence to examine which policies are most effective in saving lives.
In all likelihood, Republicans will ignore these requests. In fact, as the Washington Post reported, GOP lawmakers are eyeing new proposals to weaken gun restrictions, not strengthen them.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
If you really want to understand the modern NRA read yesterday’s post over at LGM by Eric Loomis entitled “Ramon Casiano”.
Major Major Major Major
@Laura: Roberts cares about his own PR, it’s why the Obamacare decision was what it was. That he doesn’t do it on every decision doesn’t mean he doesn’t do it.
Major Major Major Major
@p.a.: I think it’s that everything has gotten so bad that even people who are normally insufferable have started to notice. They’re still awful in every other regard though.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: Thank you. Politico link from 2014. Looks worth a read. Will do so.
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Checking that out too. Thanks.
schrodingers_cat
R rule is the rule of corporations with a side of racism and bigotry. The main dish is absolute subservience to mega donor interests.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I was thinking the same thing.
Betty Cracker
@low-tech cyclist:
Right there, you demonstrated the problem you outlined in your comment: There’s a lot going on, and there’s not a corresponding group of single-issue voters on the pro-gun control side that is large enough to counter the ammosexuals. Until that tipping point is reached, we’re unlikely to make headway. But I think we will get there eventually.
stinger
@MattF: I had not seen that before. Thank you.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I like Martin Longman (aka Booman) and have for a while. I think he’s wrong on this one too, conflating thinking something might backfire with not wanting to do something, but I don’t see why you have to turn that into dismissing a long respected commenter.
stinger
@rikyrah: Edit accepted.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: I was not dismissing rikyrah but ML’s argument which she had quoted.
Hence I put his quote in block quotes.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodingers_cat:
Excellent point. This is a long-haul struggle and we need to strengthen ourselves (individually and collectively) for that undertaking. We’re better equipped to keep going if we understand the change process in those terms.
rikyrah
Controversy over Team Trump’s private email accounts intensifies
10/03/17 10:07 AM
By Steve Benen
Officials in Donald Trump’s White House were told they couldn’t use private email accounts to conduct official business. The National Security Agency also warned White House officials that use of private email accounts created a security threat. What’s more, Trump’s entire political operation had just spent two years telling the public that Hillary Clinton should be incarcerated for having used a private email account.
And yet, there’s now ample evidence that top members of the president’s West Wing team conducted official business through private emails, and as Politico reported last night, the problem continues to grow, particularly as it relates to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump.
Politico’s report added that messages, which included work-related “data,” were sent on a daily basis, which points not only to a potentially widespread problem in the White House, but also “concerns about the security of potentially sensitive government documents, which have been forwarded to private accounts.”
SiubhanDuinne
@Kathleen:
Happy anniversary to the Obamas, and happy birthday to you!
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I know, I was referring to longman when I said respected commenter, I should have said commentator.
gene108
If we want to send a message, pound Congress like we did on healthcare over the silencer bill that’s coming up. Phone/fax/visit offices and let them know that the 2/3’s of the country that doesn’t own guns is getting sick of this shit.
Given the make up of Congress, we’ll probably lose, but god damn let them know fear.
stinger
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I only thought of that after I posted.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t read ML but I have seen him quoted around here a lot, and that quote sounded asinine. I have read some BS fluffing stuff he has written as well. As for respect, it has to be earned and ML hasn’t yet earned mine.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Elizabelle:
Gorsuch’s church, country club, favorite restaurant might be sensitive to protests. Same goes for Alito and Roberts – they’ll still be assholes, but we can and should make it less fun for them to be assholes.
Picket their events, too.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: plenty of people supported Sanders in the primary and are still worthwhile as commentators.
ETA yes, it was an asinine quote, I was just objecting to your dismissal of him as a writer. It sounded like you’d never heard of him before (‘This longman person’).
Kathleen
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you!
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Longman is right more often than he’s wrong. But I’m with you on this one — the national party has good reason to keep its fingerprints off Jones: It’s Alabama, FFS! Still, I’m hoping they quietly dump a lot of cash into this race, even though we’re likely to lose. Moore is a raving crackpot, and if we can keep the race close enough that Trump and other prominent Republicans feel obligated to publicly associate themselves with Moore, that’s a good thing, IMO.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
WTF? That’s not what Longman is saying/intimating/hinting at/whatever. I don’t know if he supported BS during the primaries — he might have — but he’s not a Steiniac or anything like that. But you know what? Even if had did support BS in the primary, what does that matter, if what he’s saying here has merit? He’s lamenting the the DNC or DSCC or whatever appear (to him) not to be all-in for Doug Jones. How does that merit the “colorblind workers utopia” snark?
Or have you seen a ton of DNC/DSCC communications saying that Doug Jones is their tippy-top priority? I haven’t, but I don’t spend a lot of time tracking that stuff. Maybe Longman tracks it and doesn’t see it?
stinger
@schrodingers_cat: I had to quit reading him because he could never find a good word for Hillary.
stinger
@Kathleen: Happy birthday, Kathleen!
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: for some people the national party can’t do anything right at the moment. If they contest a race (and lose) they’re getting their failed national party Pelosi hands on it and smothering local issues, if they don’t contest it (and lose) then they’re showing how they’re craven. And that’s not going to change until we win something.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@rikyrah:
I sent money to Doug Jones, and I don’t want the national Dems anywhere near him. The Dems that are winning red seats are doing it under the national radar. And for god sake, keep Wilmer away from all of them.
rikyrah
Donald Trump Jr leads campaign to overturn restrictions on gun silencers despite mass shooting fears https://t.co/g5EL7KC6Sh
— meta (@metaquest) October 1, 2017
Barbara
@stinger: Yes, indeed, not only never a good word for Hillary, but repeatedly using any primary or caucus win for Sanders for joyfully proclaiming that the momentum had definitively changed. It was tedious.
Kathleen
@stinger: Thank you!
GregB
The gun lobby is the deepest end of the DC swamp.
rikyrah
GOP leaders are confronting a stark reality: They have lost all control and comprehension of their base. My story: https://t.co/odSRnfaAfv
— McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) October 2, 2017
They fueled the paranoid fears and tribal hatreds of their base to obtain power–and then lost control. https://t.co/hk5pomNQLM
— David Corn (@DavidCornDC) October 2, 2017
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: We are in an existential struggle against the Rs. For better or worse Ds are the only opposing force that matters politically. So forgive me if I don’t lend a lot of credence to D party bashers. While Ds have their own issues at least I know they don’t want to kill me because I don’t pray to their Gods or was not born in this country.
ETA: I have no time for purity ponies, even ones that many BJers respect.
A Ghost To Most
@Wapiti: Gun owners would lie for other gun owners. Lying is what these people do.
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle:
I heard a talk last week about the fact that the Heller decision was based on the 1689 English Bill of Rights, which allowed people to carry their halberds around the streets.
But England has gun control, so I don’t understand the logic of why the 1689 English Bill of Rights means we have to have none.
JMG
I contributed directly to Jones’ campaign. It’s not hard. Lots of activists can do that. We are the Democratic Party. Pelosi and Schumer are its leaders in Congress, that’s all. There’s no downside to entering this race for the national Dems. It’s not like Jones is expected to win. I expect they will offer money and technical campaign support. But give Pelosi and Schumer credit for at least knowing a little bit about how this works. You might see Biden and Bill Clinton campaigning for Jones or maybe not
rikyrah
Millions more impacted by Equifax breach than originally thought https://t.co/sfJkSoLJQu pic.twitter.com/OLREEZnjHE
— The Hill (@thehill) October 2, 2017
rikyrah
Because if Las Vegas, Columbine, Sandy Hook etc were all classified as acts of domestic terrorism, NRA and gun industry would be finished. https://t.co/5xxh6YbXNS
— Adam Khan (@Khanoisseur) October 2, 2017
rikyrah
@Kathleen:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY :)
A Ghost To Most
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Or listen to the song on “American Band”.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
I’m not sure why anyone ever read(s) him. Obama could do no wrong and Hillary could do nothing right.
As Barbara says, IMO, he is quite tedious.
O. Felix Culpa
@JMG: I think you mean there’s no “upside” to entering this race for the national Dems?
There’s plenty of downside to bringing it to the national level. Exhibit 1: Jon Ossoff.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: How many more than 143M could it possibly be? Do people’s pets have credit ratings also?
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I never tire of quoting Tolstoy in War and Peace: If bad people can join together and constitute a force, why can’t good people do the same?
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: Amen!
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: Chief Justice Roberts is to some extent, but it isn’t consistent. As is Associate Justice Kennedy. But Associate Justices Alito and Thomas are most definitely not. And my impression is that neither is Associate Justice Gorsuch.
Kathleen
@rikyrah: Thank you!
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: They can, and I am not stopping them from anything. They are the ones who find Ds impure and stay home or go off voting for Jill Steins and baying about single payer.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: looks like while leaving for Puerto Rico, the Buffoon gave himself an “A+” for “Texas and Florida” and said “I think we’ve done just as good in Puerto Rico”
a seventy-plus year old man is obsessed with giving himself grades and “marks” and “reviews”
Corner Stone
@JMG:
The only thing, or at least main thing, they should be doing is funding voter registration efforts and transportation to the voting booth. Ads aren’t going to work in AL this cycle.
GregB
Donald Trump didn’t keep his base safe.
Fail.
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: I think Longman is pretty astute on the machinations of congress. For example, he was predicting that the incoming GOP congress would be a gigantic failure (and explaining why) when other commentators were wetting their pants about how legislative geniuses Ryan and McConnell were going to ramrod the entire GOP agenda through in the first 100 days.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I had it on mute but saw the chyron summary. I can’t stand anything about Trump but the way he turns his torso left and right like a 1st grader that has to pee pee drives me fucking bonkers.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Giggle Sisters of the Snooze Hour also gave him top marks. They have learnt nothing. I just started rewatching the Snooze Hour after a break of almost 11 months.
Corner Stone
Also too on Trump’s trip to PR – he’s going to see exactly what he wants to see and nothing more nothing less. Then come back proclaiming the mayor is a liar and look at all these pretty pictures with happy smiley faces.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: he does everything else like a first grader too.
FlipYrWhig
@zhena gogolia: Also all of that 1688-1689 stuff is shadowed by the fear of “standing armies.” Which we now have, despite the fears of 1688-89 and despite the fears of the Founders. If the point of a well-armed populace is to substitute for a permanent and permanently menacing military, but we’ve decided to _have_ such a military, then what’s the fucking point of the well-armed populace anymore? Ergo it’s not about 1689, it’s about the partisan politics of the turn of the 21st century.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: I only read him when he is quoted around here. I will keep that recommendation in mind when I want to read analysis about the Congress.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: All he does is watch TV, and he does it the way people create Google Alerts for their own name. So he’s, like, “cool, another mention of how great I am, what are the odds?” Well, you’ve set things up to find mentions of how great you are, so the odds are pretty fucking good, you nimrod.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
He’s pissed that he’s not seeing the D ‘braintrust” providing more support for Jones. He wants Jones elected, and he wants the party apparatus to step up. How is that desire a problem?
Or do you think that Jones should do it without DNC/DSCC help? I hope not — that would be its own version of purity ponies.
FlipYrWhig
@SFAW: JON OSSOFF IS GETTING TOO MUCH ESTABLISHMENT HELP AND ALSO DOUG JONES IS GETTING TOO LITTLE ESTABLISHMENT HELP DAMN YOU ESTABLISHMENT!
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: The answer is really simple. Basically the 13 year old son (of a white supremacist) who killed a 13 year old Mexican American kid, was initially convicted and then had that conviction for murder overturned on a technicality, and then spent almost the rest of his life denying he was the person who committed the murder as he himself to a long professional career in the border patrol terrorizing more Mexican-Americans and Mexicans. He even changed how he spelled his first name to facilitate his claims that it was some other guy named Harlan who grew up in Laredo. And he took over the NRA in the mid 70s by leading a revolt that got rid of the board and remade the organization from one focusing on firearms safety, shooting sports, and hunting to what it is today.
Adam L Silverman
@p.a.: Allen and Vandehei left to start Axios. Allen is a Bircher. Vandehei is just Vandehei.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: It’s quite twisted, no?
To remind: Scalia is still dead. Dead, dead, dead. He will always be dead.
Gorsuch is young and awful, but it’s just possible he is not as awful as dead Scalia.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: The desire is not the problem its his invective about Ds that is the problem. I think Doug Jones deserves all the help he can get but bleating about how Ds are the meanies is the not help I think he needs.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: Apparently he is handsome, although I fail to see the charm.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I wasn’t referring to the Bernie bros as “good people”! I meant Democrats.
schrodingers_cat
@FlipYrWhig: The Establishment is always wrong and BS supporters are never wrong, they can only be wronged.
catclub
@rikyrah:
In other words, it is time to close off public access to his schedule.
low-tech cyclist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Who the heck is Wilmer?
(The gunsel in The Maltese Falcon, of course, but I don’t think that’s who you mean.)
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Yes, then we agree.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: I’d bet a large sum of money that Kellyanne Conway is in charge of manufacturing those headlines, and things like getting a “former governor of Puerto Rico” now K-Street lobbyist to say nice things about the Beast
@SFAW: I know it’s not what you’re saying, but there are a lot of noisy internet leftists (using that term broadly) who still believe in a theory of American politics that there are no local or regional considerations, no individual candidates with strengths or weaknesses, only this thing called Establishment Democrats and the DNC (used interchangeably) and neoLiberals, and everything that happens in every election is due to their greed, incompetence, cowardice, fealty to Wall St, etc etc. I don’t actually want them to do it, but it would be very educational for those people to knock on doors in Alabama. I would love to see the interaction between “It’s all about WALL STREET!” and “It’s all explained in my Bible”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Adam L Silverman:
Another Poster Child for the Beltway Corporate Media Complex. I have a tumbrel just for him.
Mnemosyne
@p.a.:
It’s Politico’s magazine, which does longer pieces and has a different editor. Their breaking news is still atrocious.
rikyrah
Mueller Tasks an Adviser With Getting Ahead of Pre-Emptive Pardons
By Greg Farrell
October 3, 2017, 4:02 AM CDT
U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller has a distinctly modern problem. The president, judging by his tweets, could try to pardon people in his circle even before prosecutors charge anyone with a crime.
Mueller’s all-star team of prosecutors, with expertise in money laundering and foreign bribery, has an answer to that. He’s Michael Dreeben, a bookish career government lawyer with more than 100 Supreme Court appearances under his belt.
Acting as Mueller’s top legal counsel, Dreeben has been researching past pardons and determining what, if any, limits exist, according to a person familiar with the matter. Dreeben’s broader brief is to make sure the special counsel’s prosecutorial moves are legally airtight. That could include anything from strategizing on novel interpretations of criminal law to making sure the recent search warrant on ex-campaign adviser Paul Manafort’s home would stand up to an appeal.
“He’s seen every criminal case of any consequence in the last 20 years,” said Kathryn Ruemmler of Latham & Watkins LLP, who served as White House counsel under President Barack Obama. “If you wanted to do a no-knock warrant, he’d be a great guy to consult with to determine if you were exposing yourself.”
geg6
@MattF:
This. I am totally convinced it’s this.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@low-tech cyclist:
the finger wagger from Vermont
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat:
Sorry, who is the “he” here?
Summer
The email I send to my senators Tillis and Burr:
I know there is nothing any of us can write that will be more powerful than the money you’ve received from the NRA, and I can’t even bear to call and listen to some smug 20something defend you, but I can’t do nothing. So this email. You hold the power to stop mass shootings and end our epidemic of gun violence. You have the power to fund studies, even, that will help doctors deal with gun violence. You have sought and now you have ALL of this power. And you do nothing but act to enable even more violence and more chaos as you contribute to the breakdown of an American democracy founded on civic engagement and consensus building. If you are not an evil person, then what is one? The Second Amendment is not a right separate from all others. We all live in a balance of rights and responsibilities, and as my Facebook feed notified me in a memory yesterday, the Second Amendment has been an instrument of gun control for most of its history. You have supported its politicization at the instigation of the NRA and Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the entire entertainment structure that has been built solely to funnel money to you and yours. I reject that you represent anything patriotic or American. You are simply a sad, banal, evil man who has sold his soul to the highest bidder.
Corner Stone
@catclub: This is the kind of thing that makes my insides scream for Mueller to hurry up and finish so we can get going, either way. Because while all these disasters are happening, and Trump somehow finds a way to make all of them worse, his Cabinet is destroying and/or looting our country. Anyone think Pruitt, DeVos or Zinke give a shit about PR or what happened in LV? Nope, they are doing their thing each and every day, without fail.
Also too, I see where the WH supports the 20 week ban on abortions the House is looking to pass soon. Can’t do a fucking thing about re-upping CHIP but can go guns blazing ™ to save all the fetuses.
Adam L Silverman
@gene108: To be perfectly honest, the silencer (or suppressor or muffler) bill is not the hill to die on. If you’re really concerned then put the effort into the national reciprocity bill for conceal carry.
Unless this guy was shooting .22LR, had he used a suppressor you would have still been able to clearly here the shots. Especially from the AR10 (.308 Winchester/7.62 NATO). Even the AR15 (.223 Remington/5.556 NATO) would have still been audible if suppressed. Moreover, the AR10 and AR15 equipped with the bump fire stocks would have quickly melted the internal baffles from the suppressor, even if he was running them wet. Had he put silencers on those two guns he would have been far less lethal with them as the guns would have quickly started to malfunction. Silencers don’t do well with fully automatic fire.
Silencers also aren’t hard to get. Yes it is a bit time consuming with the paperwork under the National Firearms Act. And it is a bit expensive – $200.00 – for the tax stamp under the National Firearms Act, but this guy had a multi-million dollar rental property business and appears to have amassed his arsenal over a considerable amount of time. And given that he really wasn’t worried about the legality as he added and used the bump fire stocks to the AR15 and AR10 to approximate a fully automatic rifle, then it is not out of the question that he would pursue illegal options in acquiring one.
What most people don’t know is that silencers are legal in most of the European countries that more heavily regulate firearms than the US. It is considered to be both a safety measure to protect hearing, as well as a social courtesy for those who participate in sport shooting and hunting.
If you’re interested, here’s what an AR10 sounds like unsuppressed and suppressed.
Unsuppressed:
Suppressed:
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: Van De Hai.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Vandehei? In a squirrelly sort of way. And not the good squirrels.
Allen? Not possible.
MCA1
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: “Maybe in the long run we can pass laws that stigmatize and undercut the fetishization of The Gun for non-sporting use that could make a cultural difference.”
I come at it from the other direction and think we need to change the culture first. The legislation will then follow.
We need to make it socially unacceptable to be a gun humper before we get anywhere.
People should be mocking the ammosexuals at every opportunity. When they insist you’re not qualified to debate an issue because you’re not using their preferred terminology, blow it back in their face and say “Non-fetishists call it a silencer, so that’s what I’m going to call it. Now answer the question…” Ask people why their right to be a bedwetting loser who has to tote a gun in public should trump your right to not feel threatened by violence in a restaurant. Refuse to patronize businesses that don’t have strict no firearms policies, and tell them why. Ask what it says about them that out of all the possible free time pursuits out there, they chose a “hobby” that involves instruments of death. To the anti-gov’t militia fools, ask when in the 250+ year history of the republic we’ve been on the verge of martial law and the institution of tyranny, and then ask what the hell they’re so afraid of. Point out that they’re part of the problem even if they think of themselves as “responsible gun owners.”
In the meantime, I think we should ratchet up the rhetoric, too. Move the Overton window of firearms regulation and stop talking about “commonsense” legislation. That’s weak tea, and the NRA and everyone else on that side has already triggered themselves to imagine we’re coming to confiscate their toys even when we mention the tiniest of incrementalist goals.* We need to start embracing their fear that we want to repeal the Second Amendment. Someone should actually propose it and start running on it. And talk about buybacks, and confiscation, and taxing the crap out of gun owners, and requiring $5M in liability insurance for every gun purchased, and secure, public storage facilities. Democratic politicians love to note that the vast majority of Americans support various restrictions, etc. So run on those measures. Target some NRA fellating Republican and point out their record on guns and make the race a referendum on that and only that. Making elections hinge on it is the only way to actually start a political discussion on this stuff. Everything else gets lost in the cycle of “too soon” followed by “we need to move on.”
* Note: I’m not saying we should abandon incrementalist goals. I’m saying we won’t get them without moving the debate’s landscape.
Amaranthine RBG
@low-tech cyclist:
Wilmer is Bernie Sanders
Some people here were so unthethered from reality that they were convinced there were squads of people sitting in a room somewhere just waiting for mention of Bernie on any Top 100,000 blog so they could spring into action.
Their solution? Call him Wilmer so only the elect will know what they are talking about
Yes, some people really are that obsessed and stupid.
SiubhanDuinne
@low-tech cyclist:
The junior senator from Vermont. So-called because a clotted mass of trolls had his real name flagged on BJ Alert and for a while would show up in force whenever his name was mentioned. There is one commenter who always becomes exceedingly exercised at the “gunsel” reference.
Adam L Silverman
@GregB: That explains all the camo…
Amaranthine RBG
@MCA1:
I am a big fan of insurance but it wouldn’t cover intentional acts, right?
Elizabelle
@Amaranthine RBG: In fairness, there were one or two insufferable types who showed whenever Wilmer’s name was mentioned.
So, I love the Wilmer subterfuge. They added nothing to this blog but obtuseness.
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: Good God. Somebody somewhere said they found him handsome?
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: Read Judge Posner’s review of Scalia’s book:
https://newrepublic.com/article/106441/scalia-garner-reading-the-law-textual-originalism
The BLUF is that Scalia was a terrible historian, legal/constitutional or otherwise. As is the case with most of the judges and legal scholars claiming to be originalists.
low-tech cyclist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: OK, why do people call Bernie Sanders “Wilmer”?
ETA: Never mind, two posters have explained.
But SiubhanDuinne, someone gets upset at the ‘gunsel’ reference? Guess they don’t like Bogie very much.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeah, I hear tell of a guy from IIRC South Carolina who spends an inordinate amount of time trying to pick fights in the comment threads of the 10,000th most popular political blog on the internet. What a wasted life for that guy named Steve.
SFAW
@FlipYrWhig:
I imagine there was some point you were trying to make. Thanks, I guess.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: The only problem with that is in order for something to be domestic terrorism, there has to be an ideological reason driving the behavior. In Columbine and Sandy Hook there was none. We still have no real idea what motivated Paddock.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@low-tech cyclist:
question answered up thread.
Adam L Silverman
@Betty Cracker: I believe I kept writing the same thing here and being told I was nuts. So…
SFAW
@low-tech cyclist:
Well, according to one BS-supporting commenter, it was because we’re all homophobes. (Because Wilmer, as played by Elisha Cook, jr., was supposedly a “catamite.”)
I don’t come up with these things, I merely pass them on for your edification. So to speak.
catclub
@MCA1:
This is amusing because Mandalay Bay DID have that strict no firearms policy. Also, so do Trump Golf Courses – he could lift it to show he backs his own statements in favor of gun rights – but doesn’t.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: This is what I found after a quick internet search
Ezra Klein and Chinchilla are also on that list. Sad. The bar for hotness in DC for male MSM bots is really low.
Mnemosyne
@low-tech cyclist:
“Wilmer” is the code word we use to keep the Sanders Bros with a Google Alert set for his name from swarming the thread.
I think someone upthread already broke the protocol.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Both of them look like the human suit disguises they’re wearing make their real skin itch. Especially Allen. Vandehei just looks like he’s had too much work done to his face. I think if you merged them into one person it would look like Steve Mnuchin.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, Adam, in fairness — you are. Maybe not about the Congress thing, but … well….
We still love you, of course
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: MSNBC keeps saying he was “worth” $2 million, owned at least two homes, a small plane, liked to go on cruises and claimed to make a living playing video poker, sometimes winning as much as $200K a night. That would suggest to me that he sometimes, maybe often, lost that much or more, 10% of his (I’m guessing) heavily leveraged gross assets, a couple of nights a week? I think they also said he used his GF’s slot card, so maybe he had run both of them into massive debt.
I’ve also seen speculation that they found some kind of evidence at his property in Reno, and it’s some relief that no one’s blowing the terrorism dogwhistle, cause god help us if trump and Murdoch get hold of some angle they can exploit
catclub
@Mnemosyne:
Ever see the Blackadder episode with the superstitious actors and Macbeth?
Adam L Silverman
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’m sure he appreciates your forethought.
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
Speaking of which, what day of the week is it your turn to wear the giant “Birdie Sanders” mascot costume?
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: 10,000th most popular website!
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: Allen always looked to me like Cheney’s mini-me.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: But they’re not doing it unobserved. And what is being drowned out is that several state AGs and a number of specific groups are using a variety of methods to keep them from implementing or fully implementing. As soon as they actually start changing rules, as in finalizing the changes, the lawsuits will start. Injunctions will be issued pending the outcome of the suits, and the vast majority of this stuff will be tied up in the courts for years. Or withdrawn because they can’t take having what they’re trying to do exposed to the light of day. This is not the best way to deal with these things, but it is an important tool in the kit and it is being used and will be used.
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
If it’s the same one I’m thinking of — nym rhymes with “Scrapple Dinx” — I thought he was pissed because Wilmer in “Maltese Falcon” was a catamite. Is you and I thinking of the same person?
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: I find Longman to be astute on many subjects but it has become very hard for me to separate bias against Clinton from misogyny and he is not so astute that I am inclined to give him a pass for his Bernie Bro tendency to bash Clinton for trivial reasons, while overlooking major flaws in Sanders. The very textbook definition of unconscious bias against women in our society: in women anything less than perfection is a major failure, whereas even major flaws are defensible in men. He validated the presumption that men are competent and women are not, even if at the end of the day he did support Clinton.
Amaranthine RBG
@catclub:
Clearly we need to have luggage searched at hotels just like at airports
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Which, as I am sure you are aware, is mathematically impossible.
low-tech cyclist
@schrodingers_cat:
Where do I buy the decoder ring for this place?
Amir Khalid
@zhena gogolia:
It’s bad logic. Simple as that.
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
same bill would allow for the sale of
ARMOR PIERCING BULLETS.
WHO THE PHUCK NEEDS ARMOR PIERCING BULLETS.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@low-tech cyclist: I don’t know how much it costs, but you should use Cole’s amazon link
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Which, as I am sure you are aware, is mathematically impossible.
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
I know that you are being logical
but, you can’t honestly say that if this had been a NON-WHITE who did this…that it wouldn’t be labeled terrorism.
Elizabelle
An even better op ed from the NY Times: Rosanne Cash: Country Musicians, Stand Up to the N.R.A.
I hope country stars turn out to be more courageous than congresswhores.
The Moar You Know
@Summer: That’s a great email. They never read it, not even the interns.
You need to print it out, slap a stamp on that fucker and send it to all your reps. THAT gets read. Snail mail and direct phone calls and faxes. Pretend like you’ve gone back in time to 1993, because that’s the level on which these guys work.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The neighbors in Reno at the adult community he and his live-in gf have a house in said they never saw him outside, and the blinds were always drawn. That just screams of domestic abuse to me. Most if not all terrorists have a back story of their frustration, failures and abuse of and about women. This guy’s whole MO reeks of acting out of some kind of resentment against the world, and I’d bet good money it was precipitated by his relationship with that woman who was his live-in, but was out of the country.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know: I think they’re absolutely working on a 2017 level. I ignore most unsolicited email too! :P
@Gin & Tonic: nonsense, it’s merely very very very unlikely.
MCA1
@Amaranthine RBG: I don’t think you directly get at that particular problem with the particular measure of requiring insurance, no. The primary goal would be indirect, really.
Yes, there would be a direct benefit, in payouts to the victims and their families from accidental shootings, so long as the owner was in compliance with policy conditions. And it would ensure that more “normal,” “responsible” owners take additional precautions in order to be in compliance with their policies (proper storage, separate ammunition from firearm, annual check-ins for renewal, etc.) or leave themselves open to personal liability (because once you’ve got a baseline of what the insurance industry deems “not your fault, you were being careful” it’s a lot easier for plaintiff’s lawyers to argue that anything else is personal negligence). Some of the folks who keep a handgun in their nightstand might decide that’s not all that great of an idea after all.
But the real benefits of requiring insurance, to me, are the addition of time and money to the gun ownership equation. You can’t fully eliminate black market activity, but you’d certainly lessen the ease with which a lot of guns move. You would also make a lot of the more sane individual gun owners come to the conclusion “I don’t really need more of these things” a lot earlier if it cost them an additional thousand dollars a year to have that one more firearm around the house. And plenty of people would never purchase their first gun, seeing it as a waste of money and not something they can decide to undertake, and complete, within the same 15 minute visit to Walmart.
Secondary effect would be to harm the manufacturers through lowered sales due to a continually shrinking customer base with a shrinking appetite for their product. That might eventually starve the NRA, too.
I also think this might be a more achievable legislative goal, too, because it’s coming at the issue sideways, could get business backing, and can be sold along the lines that no one’s telling you you can’t own guns, but x people were killed in the United States in preventable accidents last year and why shouldn’t the owners of those firearms bear some responsibility? You say you’re a responsible gun owner, prove it. We require you to carry auto insurance, for a machine not primarily designed to kill people, so why not this?
Amaranthine RBG
@Chyron HR:
As I have mentioned many times – I gave the personal max to Clinton, also donated to aligned pacs, worked phone banks for her and then drove over the Sierras to spend two weeks in a crappy La Quinta hotel knocking on doors for Clinton and Cortez-Masto.
Yes I supported Sanders initially because he was better on the issues and I because I thought Clinton was such a monumentally shitty candidate that she might lose to even a joke like Trump
But after Sanders lost, I moved on
Why can’t you do the same?
Amir Khalid
@SiubhanDuinne:
You seem to have given up on using your real name here. I haz a sad.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There is a big missing piece, or several missing pieces, of information. A 62 year old affluent man would not be in my initial demographic picks for doing something like this, regardless of ethnicity or religion. Even ones that have a gun collecting hobby.
I think one of the major unanswered questions is whether he’d gotten so underwater on his gambling that he snapped. But I would have expected him to have shot up the casino floor if that was the case and he was trying to symbolically target the source of his ills.
As for his home, my understanding is they found tannerite. This is a powder that is used for making exploding targets for interactive range use.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: According to his brother he worked as an accountant but mostly he and his brother bought and rehabbed properties, mostly apartment buildings, in the Orlando area. He managed some of these properties himself, and there was no indication if he sold them or was bought out by his brother. I can believe that he made a good living doing that in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, in Florida, which has seen a lot of growth, especially in Orlando. It costs about $100,000 per year to live on a mid-level cruise ship (my husband looked into it once in a fit of madness, after our broker told us that he has clients who have done it). So if you had $2 million, you could live on a cruise ship for more than a decade. Just to put it in perspective. It’s not an insane amount of money, and you could definitely lose a lot of it in Las Vegas, which are stacked in favor of the house. So he might have lost his shirt at the Mandalay and decided to get “even” in the twisted way that entitled people think about the fair distribution of pain and suffering.
chopper
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
if this schmuck spent half the time actually doing the job as he did bragging about it, he’d have done a job worthy of bragging.
ETA: eh, i’m just kidding. he’s terminally incapable of doing a good job on anything.
Major Major Major Major
@Barbara: I heard on the radio yesterday they found ammonium nitrate.
ETA intended for @Adam L Silverman
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: My mentally ill golden retriever, who has anxiety and OCD and is terrified of walking on a street (fear not, he is getting a LOT of help) is even at his worst more courageous than any GOP congresscritter.
Amir Khalid
@Amaranthine RBG:
How so? Did he ever present any plausible plan for implementing what he stood for? Or was he just good at striking rhetorical poses?
Repatriated
@rikyrah:
They were. The definition of terrorism requires indiscriminate violence, a target population or government, and an intended political effect. What’s been missing from our analysis is the intended political message and effect of the massacres, and the intended targets of the message. That message is actually simple and clear: Presumptively Law Abiding Gun Owners must be respected and feared, because they have the right to kill whoever they want, for whatever reason they want, at any time. The target is the American government and population.
Presumptively Law Abiding Gun Owners are distinct from ordinary Law Abiding Gun Owners because they’re obviously not “Thugs” or “Terrorists” or “Illegal Immigrants” (actual citizenship being irrelevant to the concept), or to some extent, “too emotional”. In other words, white men. Law Abiding Gun Owners who are not presumptively so are subject to legitimate summary execution by law enforcement or vigilantes in the Presumptively Law Abiding Gun Owning community.
There’s an old phrase, “some people are only alive because it’s illegal to shoot them”. That pretty much sums up the message these slaughters send: that everyone not a Presumptively Law Abiding Gun Owner is living only on sufference of the righetously armed, and that at any time the balance of whether a trigger pull is worth the risk to life and liberty could shift.
Now, these isolated incidents might be just that, if they weren’t acting as part of, and radicalized by, a larger organization. But they are, and that organization is the NRA in collusion with the politicians and pundits they’ve bought, and those in thrall to the power of guns. This coalition will invariably decry the individual atrocities, while vehemently insisting that whatever the body count, Presumptively Law Abiding Gun Owners are nonetheless still entitled to the means and right to go forth and do likewise. Indeed, they insist that such horrific events justify their existence (“a Good Guy With a Gun could have stopped it, or would have scared off the perpetrator just by being there”).
So we now have the three elements of the definition of terrorism; indiscriminate violence, the target to be influenced, and the intended effect. We also have a terrorist organization that radicalizes and supports the individual terrorists. It simply requres recognizing what’s presently happening in society and politics.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Tim C.:I think the correct reply to any crackpot who pulls that line on me is “Well, you know the Country Western things attract THAT kind of crowd. I suppose we should be thankful there is not more shooting, what between alchole, meth and guns. I mean look at all the rage with THOSE folks”
I really truely don’t get why people don’t slap the Wingtards with “The Scary Other” sticker.
Barbara
Okay, can somebody please list the words that get you into moderation? I am guessing that c*sino did it for me, but come on, we are talking about Las Vegas!
Amaranthine RBG
@rikyrah:
I have not read up on this , but I thought no the debate there was about broadening the definition of what armor piercing includes
Could be wrong about that
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: It’s the only thing I DON’T fault them for. I have 32,000-plus unread emails in my inbox, they will never get read, there is no point. Email is worse than useless for a public figure. I get that.
chopper
@rikyrah:
how else are we supposed to take out those new-fangled armored deer?
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
Oh, my mistake.
Amaranthine RBG
@Amir Khalid:
I want to acknowledge your comment, but I don’t see any point in rehashing the past.
I’m working on 2018 and 2020 now.
Repatriated
@Repatriated: Apologies for the open italics tag — WP won’t let me edit, either.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: You know exactly what I meant. It’s as if I said I make my living buying lottery scratch tickets – but even less likely, because he had casino loyalty cards, so they knew exactly how much he won and lost at which machines in which casinos. If he had a net positive *week* they’d be tearing down the machines and reviewing video recordings looking for mods. Having a net positive *year* is about as likely as me being struck by lightning while holding a $500M Powerball ticket.
chris
Mexico. Inequality and violence. Sounds familiar for some reason.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know: it also makes sense to me to count more time-consuming modes of contact for more ‘points’ since they presumably correlate with time spent activisting which correlates with number of votes influenced/banked. Yes, they represent all their constituents, but they’re also cynical and want to keep their jobs.
seaninclt
@Adam L Silverman: I said the exact same thing yesterday about suppressors but I’m apparently a troll or a GRU bot or an NRA Shill. As I said yesterday, make the trade-off. Loosen regs on suppressors but tighten on ammo – no 7.62, .338, etc.
edit – I don’t hunt so I’d be perfectly content to plink away with .22lr
Gin & Tonic
@Barbara: Both casino and poker will throw you into moderation. As will pharmacy, I believe, along with some trade names of things men might buy there.
Amaranthine RBG
@Chyron HR:
You really should move on. Clinton lost to Trump. Learn what lessons yo can from that fact and apply them to the future.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
We’re saved!
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: well, ‘mathematically impossible’ is one of those phrases with a particular meaning that’s a bit of a pet peeve, like how some people get with ‘literally’.
Major Major Major Major
@seaninclt: you’re presumed to be those things because you have a short comment history and showed up here right as the bullets started flying Sunday night to argue about guns. Most likely you’re just a fetishist though.
MCA1
@rikyrah: I hear both of you on that one. It annoys me greatly that mass killings with no explicit political goal or motivation are constantly labelled as terrorism so long as they’re committed by people with skin tone of a certain depth. Because oftentimes they’re not terrorism. The Orlando nightclub shooter was not a terrorist but my recollection is that he was called such. Dylan Roof was a terrorist and I wish we’d been able to force the conversation then. And so now we’re in this position where we’re demanding that, for the sake of consistency, everyone label Paddock’s actions as terrorism when it probably doesn’t really fit the bill.
We’ve decided that attaching that label is some litmus test of one’s racial sensibilities. It’s a cart driving a horse. I don’t like that I’m annoyed that the White House won’t inaccurately label this. We’re at risk of ending up in the same absurdist magic words position that Republicans are in with “radical Islamic terrorism.”
Amir Khalid
@Amaranthine RBG:
There is a point, though: I would not want any of my American friends to pin their hopes again on a candidate who can excite a crowd at a rally, but is all at sea when it comes to getting things done.
Amaranthine RBG
@seaninclt:
Wha???
There goes my deer rifle and my elk rifle.
The number of rifle cartridges uses in homicide is small compared to handgun rounds
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: Holy shit. I need to move to the Village and get all insidery and MSM-y so I can be swamped by teh ladies.
Ezra actually is cute, in a boyish kind of way.
Amir Khalid
@Amaranthine RBG:
Wilmer lost to Clinton. Learn from that too.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: We already allow the sale of armor piercing bullets. Almost any decent sized caliber shot from a rifle will pierce some types of body armor. Right now you can go and buy steel core ammunition for AR15s and AR10s in a variety of calibers. Not just the standard 5.56 NATO (.223) and 7.62 NATO (.308) respectively, but also heavier calibers than the .308. These are what is called hardball ammunition, meaning they are not hollow point*. And because rifles, whether semi-automatic (self loading from a magazine) or single shot (manual loading either from a magazine or by hand feeding), whether bolt or lever action, are designed to create high velocity when firing the round and designed to take much larger calibers with much higher loading (gun powder, case pressure), almost all rifles are “high” powered enough to shoot rounds that can pierce some types of armor.
* Hollow points are designed to cause maximum damage through large, irregular wound channels in human and/or animal tissue leading to quicker incapacitation and/or death. Because they open up into a petal pattern they tend to be much less effective against armor. One of the complaints from US military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan is the 5.56 NATO round we use, which is hardball not hollow point because of NATO rules negotiated with our European NATO partners, are ineffective. It doesn’t have stopping power. It is not heavy enough, even as hardball, to create a significant enough wound channel to quickly incapacitate the enemy. But it has enough velocity and foot pounds of force to go through the enemy quickly without incapacitating them. Since NATO rules prohibit us from switching to a hollow point in 5.56, the military is now exploring going back up to the 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester) as the default caliber. If they can get the combat rifles light enough.
Amaranthine RBG
@Amir Khalid: Yes and a skilled politician who can’t get elected ain’t worth much either.
schrodingers_cat
@low-tech cyclist: Giggle Sisters : Tamara Keith, Amy Walter and the late Gwen Ifill. Snooze Hour, PBS News Hour.
Giggle sisters : Because they keep giggling incessantly no matter what the topic.
seaninclt
@Major Major Major Major: I accept your apology.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Without a doubt. And how many posts have I done point this out? Or lampooning officials, including the President, about this type of thing?
When some white guy does this, regardless of why they do it, there is never a call for all white guys to denounce it.
Major Major Major Major
@seaninclt: is that what that was?
@Corner Stone: it worked better for him when he was younger. A friend once pointed out that his tongue is too big for his mouth and I can’t un-notice it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: Good news, but for the somewhat troubling– to established norms, such as they are– aspect of a Secretary of Defense going somewhat rogue in an attempt to box in a President he implicitly admits in incapable of making the right decision
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: Your continued faith in institutions continues to baffle me. Sure, some AG’s will file lawsuits. During the two years they are dragging out the companies Zinke has made a deal with will have strip mined, logged or extracted what they want. The companies Pruitt makes a deal with will have dumped elebenty brazillian tons of whatever they needed to dump, wherever they wanted to dump it. The rules and regs DeVos will roll back will have set our education system and its charges back by a couple decades.
I’m sure we will win some, get some stays granted, some rearguard delays. I look at the Muslim Travel Ban as some kind of hope. They keep trying but it’s been held back for a bit. That did not stop many, many people from immediately acting on the proposed changes in the rules.
Amir Khalid
@Amaranthine RBG:
I wasn’t talking about political skill. For an executive job like POTUS, one of the most demanding such jobs on this planet, you need an able executive.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I hadn’t heard that report. I wouldn’t surprise me.
hueyplong
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s either good news or a frighteningly desperate cry for help.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman:
The commentariat tore apart this ridiculous notion yesterday. While they might be legal there (and parts here), it’s this part: more heavily regulate firearms than the US. We don’t have that here so introducing yet another device that will help mask/muffle the killing machines is not needed. The silencer bill is a public health issue, as is the national reciprocity bill for conceal carry. They’re all designed to 1) introduce more weapons 2) make the gun industry more money and 3) give the ammosexual military cosplayers another item to wank over. For fucks sake, law enforcement doesn’t want this, gun control groups warn against this, common sense says this is a horrible fucking idea… they have electronic ear plugs that cost the same as a silencer that are more fucking effective if you really care about the hunter’s delicate ears.
I said this downstairs and I’ll say it again: issue every man/woman/child an IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit) like the type I wore, and had to use, in Iraq, and send every single person in America through Army Combat Survival Training (intensive first aid for battle field conditions). Make sure everyone knows what an Israeli bandage is, a quick use tourniquet, and Quick Clot, and how to use it all.
Waynski
@low-tech cyclist:
Why not both? When children get shot by gun-toting madmen – they’re going to need healthcare. Amirite?
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: unless they’re gay, then all the gay white guys have to.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: it was NPR so I assume they had a reliable source. Obviously these things change though.
MCA1
@seaninclt: “As I said yesterday, make the trade-off.”
No, you didn’t. You came in popping off about how we should actually be in favor of more silencers because they’re a sign of courtesy to rural landowners. Then you admitted you knew nothing of hunting, or rural living, changed the subject to automobile collisions with deer in the D.C. suburbs, and suggested that because European laws typically allow for silencers (though heavily regulated, and behind the door of a significantly more difficult process to obtain a firearm to which they might be attached in the first place) we should, too, while also claiming that we shouldn’t really look to European firearms regulations more broadly because each country has its own culture, and not seeing the outlandish logical failure in that.
To my recollection, you never once addressed the federalization of conceal carry. Now you pop up again only after Silverman makes a point that kinda sorta buttresses yours.
Translation: you’re an ammosexual troll.
Adam L Silverman
@seaninclt:
Why not all three?//
More seriously, one of the issues that will have to be dealt with at some point in the ongoing debate, because it isn’t going to stop, with one side arguing for doing something and the other screaming “shall NOT be infringed!!!” is that there is a lot of technical knowledge that has to be mastered to actually make effective arguments, let alone try to formulate effective policies and strategies to deal with this problem. This is not an argument for doing nothing. Nor is it an argument for not trying. But like almost everything else I write about on here it is an argument for the need for expertise and its appropriate application.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: What about literally mathematically impossible? How are you with that?
Mike in NC
My email contained an item about Paul Ryan “indefinitely shelving” those GOP bills to make firearms suppressors easier to obtain and expand concealed carry to more states. Since he’s such a shifty dishonest weasel, “indefinitely” could just mean a week or two, when the media goes back to forgetting about the epidemic of gun violence in our country.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: Agreed about Ezra. But for the cute and nerdy in the DC set, my choice is David Farenthold, and he was one of the few that did some actual reporting on T instead of chanting emailz, emailz.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s all the same bill. They put reciprocity into the bill with silencers.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: hmm, if I were a robot that one really would have me spinning.
In my line of work there is a very important distinction between “mathematically impossible” and “very unlikely”.
@Mnemosyne: then why is everybody getting so mad about the silencers part? Focus, people!
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Most of the MSM botlets are mathematically illiterate. They can barely calculate and interpret percentages.
Mnemosyne
@catclub:
There’s a fairly subtle “Macbeth” joke in the play I’m no longer permitted to name.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: It is most likely that I have a decades worth of up close and personal experience with just how inefficient our systems and processes are on good days, when they’re properly staffed and running.
There is one whole US Army command that I will never be allowed to work for again, despite an extended track record of success with the awards from senior uniformed and civilian leaders to prove it. All because one senior GS 15 who has leverage decided over a decade ago that I was a terrible person and she has the ability to keep me locked out. This is the power of our bureaucracy.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: To be clear, you’re counting on the strength of our institutions to be cludgy, slow and inefficient (maybe purposely so in some cases) as opposed to their strength being a broad assault/pushback by competent, smart and talented people in departments with deep institutional knowledge?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
you, our
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
Her parents would be proud of her. ?
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: Yes, they would.
And we are too!
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
heard that too.
But, don’t label him a terrorist…
Uh huh
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I have a full field medic kit.
As for the ridiculous notion: for 200 bucks and a four month wait you too can have a silencer. They’re not illegal. They’re actually fairly lightly regulated now. And despite what is seen on TV and in the movies, outside of .22LR, they aren’t going to make your rifle inaudible. I’m not arguing the wisdom of fully deregulating them. I am simply stating that this should not be the firearms regulations hill to die on right now.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Sure, sure.
seaninclt
@MCA1: You’re cute when you’re angry.
Barbara
@Leto: Just to restate this, my family owns a farm in a rural place that not infrequently has hunters poaching and trespassing, sometimes unwittingly because not all property lines are marked. When we go down there during hunting season we often feel imperiled even though we do try to protect ourselves by wearing orange blaze and making a lot of noise. I would much rather hear shooting and know that hunters are afoot than not. I don’t care what they do in Europe. Europe regulates guns to a much higher degree than we do, thus making the “fair warning” concept a lot less important. And of course, it makes it a lot easier for poachers to remain undetected if they are able to use a silencer. So just apart from having to think about responding to mass shootings, allowing silencers doesn’t even make sense for the reasons they claim it does.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He’s Kaiser Wilhelm, and the calendar is somewhere in the vicinity of the fall of 1913-early 1914.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I understand that. While it won’t be possible in the House, I would concentrate on the Senate to strip the parts out. All I’m saying, no more, no less, is that I’d focus on national reciprocity more than on silencers if I was prioritizing. That’s it.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: Here’s an example of what you’re talking about: Nevada voters approved a new gun control law – so why was it not enforced?
This sticks out of course:
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Exactly what is the percentage of the MSM bots that can’t compute percentages?
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
no…he didn’t say that..
Calouste
@Gin & Tonic: Rule number one of professional gambling: you can’t make money off the house, you can make money off suckers.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: I’m actually counting on both. There will be a lot of kludgy and inefficient because we’re really good at that. Also because the administration has been slow to fill the political appointments, especially the 3,400 or so that don’t require senatorial approval. And because the President has made it clear that he’s not going to fill the majority of those. This means a lot of unqualified folks from the transition landing teams on temporary appointments that expire at various times running up against both the kludgy inefficiency and the senior career folks (SESes and senior GSes) who believe they actually run each department, agency, bureau, office, and section. And these senior career folks are usually pretty sharp, at least, and understand how to make things work or not work depending on what they think should be done.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: You bet your sweet bippy he did. He’s still after this whole notion of “debt” and what PR “owes” the US.
Now he’s going to blame all of his incompetence on the brown people who wanted everything done for them. Glorious!
Mnemosyne
@Leto:
I’m realizing that the silencers bill is the ammosexuals’ version of the “pro-life” crowd saying that we should have the same abortion restrictions as Europe. They want European-style regulations without the underlying safety net that allows those regulations.
Allowing more silencers without tightening controls on who can have a gun is as dumb as restricting abortion without having universal healthcare and comprehensive sex education in every school. It will only make the existing problems worse.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: Yep. The same people that claim that we don’t enforce the firearms laws we have on the books are also, usually, the ones working the hardest to prevent them from being enforced.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Thinks he knows the price of everything (he doesn’t). And knows the value of nothing.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Adam L Silverman:
My favorite silencer case involved a militia goober whose burglar alarm went off when one of his kids left a door open. Cops came per protocol and swept the house, noticed some funny things in a closet during a sweep. When homeowner goober arrived, they asked for permission to go deeper into his closet, and like an idiot he granted it.
Half a dozen silencers, two machine guns (one with ground off serial numbers) and one machine gun bolt later, he was in a jam. We did an amazing proffer on a snitch deal, but in the end, his wife wouldn’t let him take it and refused to pay me to defend him – to keep the family safe from militia idiots, she decided he needed to eat it.
MCA1
@Adam L Silverman: Disagree. That just plays to the fetishist preference of derailing any conversation through insistence on expert technical knowledge, which allows them to take it down a rabbit hole instead of focusing on broad principles and outcomes.
99.9% of America knows jack shit about how the health care insurance industry works beyond their own policy and claims processing experience. Not once has the GOP ever addressed actual substance in their repeal crusade. But the Democrats have nevertheless lost the framing battle on the issue, and insisting that Republicans talk about actual policy and outcomes and statistics, etc. has not really done much to deter them from just repeating their mantras about freedom and moochers and unfair taxes, etc. As you well know, much has been made of the discrepancy between people’s top line disapproval of “Obamacare” and their reactions to detailed descriptions of individual parts of the law. We don’t need to talk about specific magazine sizes or the nuance between full- and semi-automatic weapons, we need to just call them mass killing machines. We can worry about details and technical expertise once the frame is changed.
Betty Cracker
@Adam L Silverman: I’ll keep the $200 and four month wait, thanks. Every restriction currently on the books is a hill to die on since we hardly have any ground left to cede, and talk of “trade-offs” (pace commenter sean) is an absurd joke in this legislative environment.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman:
I’ve directly worked with the agencies/individuals using them. I know what a silenced/unsilenced weapon sounds like, in multiple calibers. The people who use them as part of their job aren’t interested in their hearing protection. Also I’m glad you have a full med kit; I hope you never had to use yours. I went through several.
From a differing perspective, you’re making the same argument as the ammosexuals. And right now is the perfect time to fight that horrible fucking bill. If not now, when? When everyone’s had time to “cool off” and move on to the next thing Dotard/Rethugs have done so this can slide into the background? You don’t have to die, but people can sure as hell make their voices heard. It’s part of the never ending public health crisis that is the American worship of Moloch.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There is something wrong with him, Part the Nth
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
“Silencers” is easier to explain as a bad idea than reciprocity. They’re both terrible ideas, but the second one takes longer to explain.
rikyrah
Polls point to a competitive Senate race in Alabama
10/03/17 11:20 AM—UPDATED 10/03/17 11:30 AM
By Steve Benen
Roy Moore, the Republican Party’s U.S. Senate nominee in Alabama, has argued that pre-school is a Nazi-like institution for brainwashing children into being liberal. Hearing that, one might be tempted to think such a person would struggle to win a Senate campaign in this country.
And with that in mind, consider the latest polling from the Yellowhammer State. BuzzFeed noted late last week:
cosima
@rikyrah: How can we move the needle on the definition of terrorism and the use of the term? What is the actual definition? Because I, as an unarmed person in the US, felt terrorised by some of my armed neighbours. When I was pushing Little C around in her pram, canvassing for the Obama campaign, and was threatened with being shot by a crazy a&&hole down the street from us I felt terror for myself & Little C. Way back when I was pregnant with Big C I was terrorised by our recently-paroled neighbour, he often threatened to shoot me and our dogs. He eventually moved on to threatening (and stabbing the dogs of) others, and made life in our small town hell for lots of people until he killed himself (with a gun).
My grandmother was shot by her second husband, a violent & abusive alcoholic. He terrorised her & my aunts (3 were still living at home) for years, until he finally killed my grandmother & two others at her place of work.
Terrorism does not, and should not, be a term used to define acts against the interests of the US or its citizens by outsiders. Advocates for gun control need to co-opt the term terrorism for our own purposes.
cat
@Tokyokie: Mothers Against Gun Adulation?
Kay
Asshole went there to settle scores. The douchebags have landed! They’re behaving badly, as usual.
Can’t they study normal people for a week or so and try to imitate one? Why is this so hard for them? Go there, express sympathy, and go home. Is there anything easier than this? Act like you’re listening and give a shit about these people. Maintain that charade for 35 minutes. Done.
Adam L Silverman
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: When they send their people they’re not sending their best and brightest.
Or so someone important once said.
Waynski
@low-tech cyclist:
Cole used to have a dictionary of BJ lexicon. Not sure what happened to it.
MCA1
@seaninclt: I’m quite enjoying exposing you. Why would I be angry?
Feel free to defend your dishonesty, though, if you want. Or tell us another fantastical story, like the one about 300 pound bucks ramming your car.
BBA
I’ve grown so numb to this, that my main reaction has been “fuck ’em, white lives don’t matter.”
Which isn’t a good place to be, considering I am white (any PoC who feels the same way is 100% justified, in my book).
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
In the wake of a mass shooting where 58 people were murdered and 500+ more were injured, now is the perfect time to challenge the NRA. There will not be a better opportunity.
We got an email this morning from our CEO that a 10-year Disneyland employee was killed and another was seriously wounded. Fuck this “not the right hill to die on” bullshit. The hill is here, and we need to defend it.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: Always. Part of the broader, “Government doesn’t work, so lets get rid of it/Drown it in a bathtub” group.
@Mnemosyne: agreed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
ETA: Good god
Adam L Silverman
@MCA1: Maybe I wasn’t clear, which is a possibility, so let me clarify. By expertise I am referring to a modicum of accurate information by the vast majority of people concerned so they can make a determination of what things need to fought immediately and what can be put off for a bit. For instance, while health care and health insurance issues are not my specialty I’ve made sure I’m informed enough to understand what the different moving pieces are (even if I don’t understand how they all move) and what needs to be focused on in the short term versus the long term. I am also referring to detailed, in depth expertise for the subject matter experts that will have to actually develop the strategies and policies to both conduct the fights regarding both the short and long term issues.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I was very fortunate. We had a comparatively stable OE.
Politics is the art of the possible. Even given the opposition we’re currently dealing with. I’m not saying don’t oppose it, I am saying that if a trade off has to be made, then trading the silencer issue is the least noxious trade off it allows the other two components to be successfully combatted.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: I watched the whole thing. It was cringe worthy.
zhena gogolia
@MCA1:
You are my hero today.
Leto
@MCA1: This right here; there are plenty of ammosexuals who will jump on you for technicality, not the actual logical point you’re making, in an attempt to derail the entire conversation. My representative doesn’t need to know the finer points of grain weights, scope magnifications, humidity/gravities effect on trajectory… that’s what they have fucking SMEs for. Reframe the debate to, “Why are you continuing to defend mass killing machines?” and work from there. We can’t keep ceding ground to these people, or letting them frame the debate. At some point, the sacrifices to Moloch have to stop.
Kay
Another disaster. They don’t know how to act. They go places and make people feel uncomfortable. Outside his golf courses and his rallies he’s always bad, too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I gather John King declared yesterday awkwardly read prepared speech as yet another momenthebecamepresdient. We need a word for those moments. Aderptheoses ? Pivplotz?
Corner Stone
I’m only surprised he didn’t commandeer a golf cart to take him around PR. That’s it, switching to MNF game replay for a bit. Have to watch something else that’s killing people’s brains to clear my head.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I am not arguing against challenging the position of the NRA. I am arguing for focusing effort and energy on the most noxious portions of the proposed legislation. Given the current majorities in both the House and Senate, as well as who is the president, it is going to be a hard enough lift as it is. All I’m saying is be prepared to prioritize.
Elizabelle
@Kay:
I love Kay with no fucks left to give.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I’m not the only one who doubts that only 16 people died on the whole island, right?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Katy Tur: trump told a family they were good looking, asked if they had ever seen anything like this before, then told them to “have a good time”
It’s a train wreck without end
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I always thought that instead of actually buying actual F-35s, we should just stage a photo op of a bunch of rolling stairs placed next to nothing with flight techs looking busy and announce our next gen stealth fighters with chameleon technology that make them completely invisible to the naked eye as well as electronic measures. Then state we’ve built 5,000 of them. And they only cost $4 each. And then see if anyone really wanted to risk finding out of we were bullshitting.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
Cringe worthy is exactly right. I think the hollowness of Trump shows up very clearly in the unusual events – the events outside an arena he can control. People just don’t like him.
I met Obama once. He probably did 10,000 of these local “meet and greets” over 8 years. His whole effort was towards putting us at ease. HE was fine. Completely confident and in control. His aim was to get us to relax.
It’s an imposition, to go to people in dire straits and scream “feed me! feed my giant fragile ego!” No. Fuck you and your neediness. We’ve got our own problems.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: Notice how Trump said “certified.”
So 16 is not the final figure.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: The Flying Potemkins! Distracting tinpot toddler-dictators from Bedminster to Mar-A-Lago!
trump: “Can I ride in one Kellyanne?”
KAC: “You’re too fa….abulous! your shoulders are too broad to fit in the cockpit, Mr President.
trump: “Heh. Cockpit”
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
We may be using different definitions of “a hill to die on,” then. Usually that means you’re supposed to back off of a current effort and find a new location to defend.
But, like it or not, the deaths of those 58 people make a difference. The House is going to want to pretend that no one really cares, but people do. We need to put enormous pressure on them NOW while the worst mass shooting in the history of the US is front-page news, not assume that the battle is already lost and we can only take rear-guard actions.
Here’s what should be the operative cliche: “strike while the iron is hot.”
Leto
@Kay:
I don’t think a lizard brain can go for more than 2 mins tops?
@Adam L Silverman: My gripe is that they’re unwilling/unable to trade. They don’t believe in trade. They’re playing zero sum. The NRA won’t let them. Yes, old school politics the art of the possible. Unfortunately, that’s not the current reality. To paraphrase our pal Rummy: You go to war with the politicians you have, not the ones you wish you had.
Also just a personal aside: I know where you’re coming from on this, and I’m sorry if it seems like I’m yelling at you directly. I’m not. It really comes back to this:
-John Coffey, The Green Mile
seaninclt
@MCA1: wow your memory is goin buddy – get that checked.
@Mnemosyne: What he’s trying to gently tell you is that you don’t know shit about guns so fighting a battle over silencers is fucking stupid. It’s like trying to outlaw spoilers on Civics instead of mandating seat belts. But whatevs…you do you.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: It’s 59 deaths.
gvg
@seaninclt: No. This is not a time that it’s safe to negotiate. The other side will not trade, they will demand everything. Some other decade maybe. Besides, the no regulation on gun people by rights should be retreating and begging forgiveness. instead, those of us who think we need regulation, are being told it’s hopeless by others of our own side, which tends to be bad for moral. So since there won’t be any trade, may as well stand up and say what’s right.
I don’t really see any reason suppressors are needed except by specialized military, anyway. Lots of regulations are needed. I think it starts with explicitly stating the value of guns for democracy was overstated and not born out by experience. It’s really just a hobby with no more importance than collecting trading cards, but the gun collectors have become very fond of being told how special they are. In reality they should be regulated just like anything else with good and bad points. Faulty ones should get makers sued and sometimes jail. Registration and insurance. requirements for storage and ammo storage. requirements on where it’s safe to shoot not to mention considerate. Densely populated areas would quite naturally have stricter rules than open rural areas because that’s the way it needs to be with lots of machines, Laws get changed as experience happens with how well they serve the needs of all. Guns aren’t special.
Mike in DC
@Adam L Silverman:
Ohio Ordinance Works has modernized the BAR into the Heavy Counter Assault Rifle. Still chambered in 30 06, with substantial recoil compensation to improve stability and accuracy. With AP ammo, an HCAR would cut through most body armor like butter. Pretty much the nastiest battle rifle i can think of.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: All I’m saying is be prepared to give a little to get a lot. That’s it. If it looks like you can get national reciprocity and armor piercing ammunition (however they’re defining that) taken off the table by giving on silencers than do it. That’s it.
I’m not discounting emotion. I’m not discounting what happened on Sunday. I’m not discounting leveraging them. I’m just stating that being shrewd and calculating may be helpful here. And that is helped along by a modicum of technical knowledge.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I’m not taking it as you or MCA1 or Mnem yelling at me. I get where you’re all coming from. I appreciate it. I even, by and large, agree with it. I’m just suggesting best alternative negotiated agreement be kept as a viable option.
And I have no illusions about who we’re dealing with.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
Because besides “leadership” it’s generosity, right? The idea that people come before you? The idea that the whole point of the visit is “you’re in trouble and you matter”?
He can’t do that. He can’t let them be the focus. Not for 30 seconds.
My daughter used to spend time with this very nice family who were religious. They had a sign on the door to the garage that said “I’m second”. I asked one of the kids what it meant and he said “other people are first”, really matter of factly, as if everyone knows that.
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, the British developed that technology for James Bond’s Aston Martin Vanquish; the Vanish, Q called it.
Adam L Silverman
@seaninclt: I’m not sure its stupid, I’m just not sure that of the three parts of the bill dealing with firearms/firearms related matters, this, in my informed opinion, is the least pressing concern if you’re going to fight on this.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: All of them, Katie.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I get mad everytime, Kay.
EVERY.PHUCKING.TIME.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in DC: This stuff would do it:
http://www.sgammo.com/product/30-06-ammo/500-round-case-30-06-springfield-168-grain-bimetal-fmj-colt-ammo-made-barnaul-ac3
Steel core.
Amaranthine RBG
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, it is kind of astounding to me that the day after a shooting in which multiple so called “assault rifles” were used and no suppressors were* – – people on the usually rational side of the issue are trying to make this massacre a rallying cry against suppressors.
Yes, I know there is a potential bill about suppressors and “armor piercing” ammo out there – but this is just allowing the other side to set the terms of debate.
*not that been reported, anyway.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Does Puerto Rico have a plant that makes the F-35?
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: Without a doubt. Which is why you saw the look on LTG Buchanan’s face and his body posture when the President started talking about him. We work very, very, very hard to inculcate the concept of servant leadership within the military. That one leads by serving – the Constitution, the nation, one’s fellow citizens. And this leadership doesn’t have to be formal, chain of command stuff.
I don’t know a Soldier that wouldn’t, ordinarily, take great pride in being publicly recognized by the President. But the way the President does this seems to bother them by their body posture and/or expressions.
Barbara
@Adam L Silverman: That isn’t how our political system operates. It is a smart person’s dream of how our system should function but rarely if ever has functioned. And just as a matter of political mood swing, showing that public pressure can cause Congress to back down on gun-related legislation makes it more likely that future, more far reaching measures can also be affected by public pressure. The Overton window doesn’t shift overnight.
rikyrah
@Mnemosyne:
The morgue in San Juan is full and stopped accepting bodies DAYS AGO.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: Well the PBS Giggle Sisters gave him high marks for Harvey and Irma. Winning.
Amaranthine RBG
@rikyrah: They have all the great planes. Just outstanding.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
When has that EVER worked with the current Republican Party?
Barbara
@Kay: My favorite Obama story about meeting and greeting people was when he decided he wanted to walk around the mall in Washington D.C. and greeted the people he ran into, who, of course, all took selfies with him. Apparently everyone had a grand time, Obama especially. He did it because he liked mixing with ordinary people.
Adam L Silverman
@Amaranthine RBG: These type of things do not effect people rationally. So it is neither surprising that there’s an emotional response, nor that folks we expect (for whatever reason) to be rational would not be given the circumstances. Passion is wonderful. You can’t be successful without it.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: It appears to be the Pelosi/Schumer strategy in protecting the Dreamers.
Corner Stone
While we are discussing a polite and rational political environment. Anyone who missed this from Cole’s twit feed:
United States rejects UN resolution condemning use of death penalty to target LGBTQ people
“The United Nations approved a resolution Friday condemning the use of the death penalty in a discriminatory fashion, including its use to punish “apostasy, blasphemy, adultery, and consensual same-sex relations.” But the United States joined a minority of states who voted against it.”
“Iraq, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE were among the 13 countries that joined the United States in rejecting the resolution”
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
We need to fight the WHOLE bill. Stop it in its tracks. Make it so toxic in the wake of 59 deaths that the Republicans drop the whole thing.
That’s why I’m rejecting your notion that we should negotiate over the details. The whole bill needs to be shit-canned while we potentially have the momentum to do it.
catclub
@Kay: Wasn’t Gale Sayers third?
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t disagree. All I’m arguing is have a BATNA in case you need it. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
And what proposed legislation is in front of the House or Senate based on the Pelosi/Schumer deal?
They threw a spanner in the works to slow the process down. It’s good that they did it, but I don’t think either of them are under any illusions that it will result in actual legislation being passed and signed.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: So subtle I must have missed it, and as a theater major I’m usually pretty good at smoking out those sorts of references.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Why signal to the enemy ahead of time that you’re willing to negotiate and what you’re willing to negotiate away?
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
G pointed it out — not only does A. Ham compare himself to Macbeth, he actually says the name onstage, and we all know what happens to people who say that name outside of the actual play …
ETA: Plus he says it in the scene right before the one where he makes the bad moral decision that ruins his life and career.
Leto
@Mnemosyne: The fact that the NRA is pushing so hard for this should help indicate, among other reasons, why this entire bill needs to die. I think part of the reason people are focusing on silencers is because that’s the easiest part to message. We continually talk about the power of messaging, well here it is. Easy message: silencers enable easier killings. Stay on point.
Edit: because spelling is hard…
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Oh, now I remember. That letter to Angelica, right?
SFAW
@MCA1:
Apologies for the extended blockquote, but I wanted to express my appreciation for your efficient and effective writing. You got all the points, did it well, and tightly. Thanks!
Yes, I mean it.
MCA1
@Adam L Silverman: Got it. Prioritizations different for the two of us, but I think we share a wavelength. I just don’t want to concede any rhetorical turf in the arguing/politicking stage, so that we can actually get to a place where we need a modicum of technical expertise to articulate the specifics of what we want.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Not that I’m an aficionado of the theater (or theatre), but that’s not one I’ve heard. Are you serious? (I expect you are.)
MattF
@SFAW: Oh, yes. There’s a long tradition of belief that the ‘Scottish Tragedy’ is cursed.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
The long dirt nap!! I can’t believe I never heard that usage before Scalia kicked the bucket. And at a Texas hunting ranch, too… how richly full of irony.
@Kathleen:
@rikyrah: Their anniversary is the same day as my birthday!Happy Anniversary Dear Obamas!
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks, this looks very interesting.
MCA1
@seaninclt: Here’s seaninclt in his mind: “Oh, you were finished? Well, allow me to retort. [devastating rhetoric…victory!!!]”
What the rest of us hear: argle bargle herp derp chuckle boooyeah, buddy!!!
So far in our interaction in this thread, your side has consisted of (a) trying to discount a post based on the supposition that I’m acting emotional (may as well throw in “hysterical”), (b) asserting that my memory is off without explaining in what way I’ve mischaracterized your contributions, and (c) trying to disarm me by calling me “buddy.” Sad trombone for you, bro. You’re not much of a troll when a neophyte can so easily get you completely off task.
Kathleen
@J R in WV: Thank you!