So now we know what prompted Mr. Tillerson to label his boss “a fucking moron.” Via TPM:
According to NBC, at a meeting last summer with top national security officials, President Trump said he wanted a tenfold increase in the size of the country’s nuclear arsenal.
Apparently Trump was shown a chart something like this.
As you can see, the size of the US arsenal has declined dramatically since its high in the 1960s. The reasons for that, which President Trump had apparently never heard of, are several. Major reductions came into effect through the late 60s and 1970s, in part tied to a series of arms limitations treaties with the USSR. There was a major drop at the end of the Cold War, codified in other treaties, and another significant reduction early in this century.
The nuclear weapons of today are significantly more advanced than the ones we had in the 1950s and 1960s. We also have agreements which keep key adversaries (specifically Russia) capped at rough parity with the US at the five or six thousand level. There are debates about modernization of the nuclear arsenal. Hardly anyone thinks we should go back to having thirty or thirty five thousand nuclear weapons. It serves no purpose (you can destroy a lot of the world with 6,000), it is highly destabilizing and costs astronomical sums of money. It’s the kind of comment you’d expect from an ignorant and aggressive clown looking at a chart he knows nothing about.
Emphasis mine. In the linked piece, Josh Marshall also discusses the alleged Mattis-Kelly tag-team arrangement to stop Trump if he “lunges” for the nuclear “football” and concludes that our worst fears about putting a malignant narcissist in the White House were wholly justified. Yeah, pretty much.
Cheryl Rofer
I’m working on a couple of posts about Trump’s nuclear nonsense. Meanwhile, here’s my tweet thread from this morning.
trollhattan
“Great negotiator” “Surround myself with the best people” “Worst deal in history” “Tired of all the winning”
His fans are still his fans, but other than Miller I wonder if a single person working for Donny the Slut is a fan?
Chris
How the fuck is 5,000 nukes not enough for whatever country we might want to nuke…
Corner Stone
He saw a chart and said, “I want that. That’s bigger than that. I want that.”
Chris
@Corner Stone:
Yes. Literally that.
trollhattan
@Cheryl Rofer:
Recalling how Donny wants a Soviet style military parade down Pennsylvania Avenue, can we make it a Soviet style parade complete with faux weapons? “Mr. President, here are your fresh new nukes!”
ETA Painted gold, of course.
Our Potemkin president.
germy
@trollhattan: I think Miller sees him as a useful idiot.
schrodingers_cat
Apparently, the generals have a high level plan to prevent the orange menace from going nuclear. It involves physically tackling him. We are grasping at straws.
Much strategery, such genius wow.
Corner Stone
“And I want you to put my name on all of them. In big, beautiful gold letters.”
germy
@trollhattan:
that would make a great craft project for some of the more creative BJers here. Anyone good with paper mache?
Gin & Tonic
Why is something that happened three months ago considered “last summer” and not “this summer”?
trollhattan
@Chris:
For starters, he has not clue one what a single warhead will do.
Jeffro
I think he sees that big, tall – almost erect, one might say – curve dwindling down to nothing and it reminds him of something upsetting to him.
Brachiator
I would love to wake up in the morning and see some news story that indicated that Trump was not a total maroon. But it ain’t gonna happen.
What makes it worse is knowing that Trump does not simply pander to his base. He is the mirror image of his base, Whitey Ignoramus Totalis.
Jeffro
Btw the Mango Menace is on a tweet-tear today, claiming that the economy is BOOMING and therefore we need massive tax cuts to get the economy BOOMING again. Um, what?
trollhattan
@germy:
Possibly, but the videos of young Miller demonstrate they’re also fellow travelers given Mr. Miller considers himself literally superior to all others, double on the browns.
Major Major Major Major
I am continually astonished by just how much Trump is like an old client I had for several years. Good riddance.
@Gin & Tonic: that confused me too.
Snarki, child of Loki
Trump has said “what good is having nuclear weapons if we don’t use them?”
Perhaps he should have one in the Oval Office, all his own. I hear that they’d make a really good paperweight, so that’s one way to “use them”.
If Donny mixes up the big red button with the big red button to order a Pepsi, oh, well.
azlib
I think a coup is coming which is not good. How long will the military put up with this incompetent and mentally ill boob.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: He also said that the report that he wants MOAR nuclear weapons is FAKE NEWS.
FWIW
Chris
@trollhattan:
I certainly wouldn’t mind him finding out up close, as long as the rest of us aren’t in the blast radius. Might even be worth bringing back nuclear testing.
schrodingers_cat
@azlib: Pointing out that we are grasping at straws here was not well received, in yesterday’s thread on the same subject. Putting faith in generals has not ended well, generally speaking. But we are the exception, because shut up that’s why.
randy khan
The one hope I had after the election was that somehow Trump would be awed by the responsibility of the office once he started getting the real briefings, which has happened with nearly every one of his predecessors over the last few decades. But it was only a hope, and stories like this remind me that he is just what he looked like on the campaign trail – cocksure, ignorant, and uninterested in anyone else’s opinion. Now I’m left hoping that we survive.
Jeffro
Btw here’s J-Ru…er, Jennifer Rubin today on the state of the GOP: Cowardly Repubs Have No Business Scolding Corker
Dems, here is your opening: taunt the GOP as a bunch of timid souls terrified of confronting an unfit moron and calling him on his bullshit.
Cheryl Rofer
Hah! Got quoted here.
Corner Stone
@trollhattan:
For starters, IMO he absolutely wants to find out.
Chris
@Jeffro:
This is the basic it’s-always-time-to-cut-taxes logic.
Economy’s doing well: Cut Taxes! We can afford it!
Economy’s doing badly: Cut Taxes! That’ll go it back on track!
Economy’s starting to recover: Cut Taxes! That’ll make it recover even faster!
Economy’s recovered: Cut Taxes! Now we can afford it!
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: Weirdly enough (as if every minute isn’t weird enough under Trumpov) he said that reporting on his desire for more nukes was intended to “demean” him. I may have been more spot-on with the graph/Viagr comment in #13 than I thought.
“Demean”? I know everything is a dominance ritual with this guy, but does everything have to be a dominance ritual with this guy??!?
trollhattan
@azlib:
A precedent we really can’t afford. The most chilling words I’ve ever heard from the White House were “I’m in charge here” from Al Haig.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Between nukes and the economy, Trump definitely has a think about BOOM.
From the YouTubes
Susan Ivanova No boom today
randy khan
@Jeffro:
The official daily White House email says, and I quote, that “The current tax plan is a disaster.” I hate to point out that this sounds like criticism of the White House proposal, so in that way it’s typical of the bad work from the communications team. On the other hand, it does sound like something Trump would say, so at least it’s kind of authentic.
I am, sadly, on the White House feed because I stupidly emailed something about the travel ban executive order back in January. It does, however, occasionally provide some amusement.
Cheryl Rofer
Let me say that I think that nuclear war is unlikely. Donny is a coward who is unlikely to order a first strike. The danger is that all this talk makes things more volatile. The North Koreans don’t know how to interpret what he says, and yesterday was another flyover by US, South Korean, and Japanese planes. The North Koreans are wary that these flyovers could be the prelude to an attack. So everyone is a little more hair-trigger. What happens if North Korea shoots down one of those planes? Will Donny loose the nukes?
We haven’t had to worry about such things since the early eighties.
Jeffro
@Chris: Oh, I know…it’s just kind of startling to see President Not-Mensa in back-to-back tweets saying a) the economy is the amazingest ever so b) we need tax cuts to get this economy back to amazing levels. Which is it?
Especially since something like 2/3 to 3/4 of the country actually doesn’t want tax cuts…they want the rich to pay MORE, which is understandable. But the public in general ‘gets it’ that tax cuts (especially when things are – relatively speaking, of course – going well economically).
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: Yes. SATSQ
Eric U.
I hate to be negative about Dem politicians, but the taunting opportunities they have missed in the past give me no hope they will properly taunt the republicans now. They are mostly cowed by the media, which is definitely a problem
randy khan
@Snarki, child of Loki:
Now, wait a minute. Don’t forget the rank and file White House employees who’ve done nothing wrong. Also, I work 3-1/2 blocks from the White House, so that probably would ruin my day, too.
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer: woohoo! ur fames
ETA also that was quick!
hellslittlestangel
The Orange Better One will negotiate to get a tenfold increase in nukes, settle for getting a third scoop of ice cream, and brag about it on Twitter for a month.
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: This I can agree with. While I appreciate posts about things that go boom, we need some kitteh photos to make up for all this apocalyptic talk.
A Ghost To Most
I can’t believe I served this nation for 10 years, only to see it turned into a fascist client-state of Russia.
Where’s my black flag?
Humboldtblue
Off topic, but here’s what wildfires look like from space.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer:
Exactly right. If we, meaning Trumpov, scare them badly enough and they think an attack to wipe them out is on the way…there’s no reason for them to hold back. So Hawaii gets nuked, and South Korea gets nuked (and a gazillion artillery rounds on Seoul) and maybe Japan gets nuked too. Not. Okay. It’ll all be unthinkable until it happens.
low-tech cyclist
@Jeffro:
This. As Atrios said, “Only Republicans can save us. But they won’t.” So we make them pay politically, by showing them up for a bunch of cowards and wimps who are afraid to rein in this walking disaster of a President.
Gin & Tonic
@randy khan:
I may not have all this Interwebby stuff down pat, but I suspect you can unsubscribe yourself.
Chris
@A Ghost To Most:
I never thought the fascism was impossible, but the client-state bit is a surprise.
Trump isn’t even Hitler, he’s Mussolini. How’s that for embarrassing the nation.
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer:
Maybe the citizenry should think carefully before electing a mentally ill republican next time.
rikyrah
The Chefs can find these towns in Puerto Rico, but FEMA CAN’T?
They are trying to kill these American citizens.
……………………..
LIVE: food crisis in Puerto Rico! We’re #ChefsForPuertoRico—we can feed the island here & now with heart. Puerto Ric t.co/exxHVWwXwI
— José Andrés (@chefjoseandres) October 11, 2017
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@azlib:
Not gonna happen in the way in which I think you mean (3rd world style coup). They’d do this by proper procedural meaning a 25th Amendment Remedy, thus they would need civilian cover. I don’t see either happening. Short of him stroking out, the GOP will never turn on him in the ultimate way (impeachment or 25th Amendment).
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t trust these guys to abide by the CAN SPAM Act ?
randy khan
@Gin & Tonic:
I could, but I decided to keep getting it for gems like today’s headline. Also, if I unsubscribe these nutjobs probably would put me on a list.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Bethany Frankel of Real House Wives of NYC is down in PR and working her ass off, while Real President from NYC is just twiddling his widdle thumbses.
low-tech cyclist
@Cheryl Rofer: Cheryl, if Los Alamos limits us to building a max of 80 nukes a year, and it would cost trillions to build another such facility, how did we get tens of thousands of nukes during the first couple of decades after WWII?
Corner Stone
I love how the “moron” comment is not going away. I virtually every news segment about Trump or the WH someone will remind everyone that SecState called Trump a moron.
Corner Stone
CA didn’t vote for Trump and has millions of illegal votes, ergo Trump has not said a word I can find about the wildfires going on there.
Origuy
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: The problem with the 25th Amendment is that it requires the Vice President to take an active role. It’s about as likely for Trump’s lap dog Pence to act against him as it is for Lily to lock John in the basement. That is, unless Mrs Pence convinces him that God wants him to do that. Hey, maybe that would work.
schrodingers_cat
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: We already have a low rent third world style despot, complete with a ridiculous hairstyle.
Corner Stone
God but Andrea Mitchell is really bad at her job.
Cheryl Rofer
@low-tech cyclist: It took us 10-15 years to build up to that level. There were a number of other facilities, like the Rocky Flats Plant in Colorado, that no longer exist.
Major Major Major Major
Hey, one good thing about mandatory teambuilding week, we have a waffle bar this morning.
Emma
@Humboldtblue: God almighty.
Corner Stone
@Origuy:
Put that way, I am actually now fairly hopeful this can happen!
randy khan
@Corner Stone:
He actually did – I heard a sound bite this morning. In fact, it’s a much faster reaction than to Maria in Puerto Rico. That said, the sound bite (something about him having talked to Gov. Brown) sounded like he was about as interested in it as he would be in a plate of Brussels sprouts.
sukabi
@Origuy: when Mother sees an opening that won’t entangle Dence in a prison term you can bet they’ll take it. It’ll be more of “gods plan”.
Stan
@schrodingers_cat:
Well….what else have we got? Congress has proven itself useless. SCOTUS can’t do anything. Kelly and McMaster are all we’ve got at the moment.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Got a link?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Major Major Major Major:
His base thinks that’s a feature, not a bug.
As for the like of Our Progressive Betters or your standard Glibertarian (aka Embarrassed Republican), they don’t think it’s their fault, instead it’s the fault of the two-party system, or whatever BS they come up with to abdicate any electoral responsibility for their idiocy at the ballot box.
Major Major Major Major
@sukabi: in sorrow, of course.
Corner Stone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I’m actually waiting for the day Trump comes out on the balcony in a full military uniform, complete with rows of medals and gold braid, declares himself Supreme Generalissimo for Life of The United States of Trump.
Miss Bianca
@schrodingers_cat: Aren’t you always the one telling the rest of us that gloom pron and doom-saying is tiresome and counterproductive? Is anyone here throwing bouquets around that we are dependent on Trump’s generals to keep him in check? Actually, no. Do you have a useful alternative to suggest beyond “grasping at straws”? If so, I haven’t seen it. So, suggesting that what people like Adam are telling you is “we’re different, shut up that’s why” is rather a mispresentation, and it’s insulting to our understanding..That’s not what I see happening.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Corner Stone:
@randy khan:
Disgusting isn’t it? It’s almost as if he doesn’t consider people who didn’t vote for him as American.
Corner Stone
@Jeffro: Eh, Stephanie Ruhle already said the word “masturbate” twice in her last hour so I think I’m pretty much done for the day. Maybe.
Stan
@Cheryl Rofer:
Golly, that’s reassuring ;)
I suggest you have that backwards. Donny is a coward, therefore he is MORE likely to panic and order a strike, or more likely to feel threatened and order a strike. Compare with, say, Eisenhower…..
cat
@Gin & Tonic: Because summer’s over in the northern hemisphere so it’s referred to in the past tense. “This summer” usually refers to the one that’s in progress or coming up shortly (think movie trailers).
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Origuy:
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe for one minute that Sharia Mike will turn on his master. Anything he can do to bring about The End Times only serves his Dominionist agenda. Having the Popular Vote Loser’s finger on the button is again a feature, not a bug, to him.
It’s just that whenever I see talk of a military “coup”, I discount it in the classical sense. I was a civilian intel officer at the Pentagon and am a graduate of the USMC Command & Staff College, I know these guys. They’ll follow procedure, not invent one. And a 25th Amendment Remedy would most likely be seen as the only procedure available to them.
moops
@Cheryl Rofer: He won’t shoot the nukes at NK unless NK shoots a nuke first and hits a target. The US and SK will launch an air assault on DPRK forces and possibly roll in with ground forces for a regime-change plan. Unlike Iraq, DPRK is vigorously working on WMD and openly threatening us. The media will not be able to refute the case.
Then we will be border-to-border with China. Neither us nor China will like that much, but Putin will love it. Honestly, the DPRK buffer country between us and China has not turned out great, but it might still be preferable to actual border skirmishes between actual world powers.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Corner Stone:
That’ll happen sometime next year.
Ryan: Now it’s perfectly normal for the POTUS to dress up like a 3rd world dictator and declare himself as such. This is just a distraction by the liberal media to stop us from enacting permanent entitlement reform and cutting all taxes for the 0.01% to zero. So let’s get to work America.
Brachiator
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Almost??
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro:
Adam L Silverman
@Snarki, child of Loki:
Something like this?
schrodingers_cat
@Miss Bianca: Grasping for straws == Is an act of desperation hence != throwing bouquets.
Expecting unelected officials to thwart an elected President in a democracy, as a last ditch measure, is a pretty gloomy thought, in my opinion. YMMV.
@Betty Cracker: Link
Spanky
@Corner Stone: Sadly, she’s very good at her job. It’s just not the job that we think she should be performing – and the job the public at large thinks she’s doing.
moops
As for delusional dictators, Trump is not there yet. Right now he still likes thinking he’s a popular elected President and has been successful, and it’s just the media lying about it all. He might take a turn and decide “Dictator” is more appealing, but I doubt it. Dictators rule by fear. Donny craves praise. His brand of character flaw, right now, keep him in the Orange Raging Baby segment, so remain a President.
If he was to have some kind of disfiguring accident and become convinced everyone is repulsed by his injuries he could switch to Rule by Fear. Then he would be vulnerable to a military coup. I think our military would turn on Trump pretending to have earned medals and wearing Qaddafi aviator glasses.
low-tech cyclist
@Cheryl Rofer:
OK, but 15*80=1200 out of a total stockpile of >30,000 nukes. And sure, there were other facilities, but how did we afford to build them then, if it would cost trillions to build another facility now? Trillions today = hundreds of billions in 1950, and that was an era of $70 billion budgets.
El Caganer
@Corner Stone: He might be able to borrow some from Sheriff Clarke.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@moops:
Mainly because they’re fucking scared of Trump and want a deterrent.
Putin should realize such a situation is actually not to his benefit. What if one of these border skirmishes turned into war and went nuclear? He would be affected along with most everyone else.
schrodingers_cat
@moops: FWIW I don’t think he has gone full dictator yet, though he does have those impulses. I don’t the military is going to stage a coup either, just that I don’t think being a military person even a general makes you automatically more noble.
Josie
@Cheryl Rofer: Additionally, he wants to pull NBC’s license for breaking the story.
Mike in DC
80 warheads a year is basically Reliable Replacement Warhead territory. At some point we do need to replace or phase out the ICBM arsenal, though. I’d kinda prefer that all our nukes be outside the continental us, though. Distribute the bombers throughout our various bases and put the boomers in overseas ports. In retrospect, silos near farmland seems like a terrible strategic decision.
mai naem mobile
@Chris:
The GOPs world vision:
Problem – Dog has cataract in one eye
Solution – Tax Cut
Problem – Blood clot in your lung
Solution – Tax Cut
Problem – Kid is getting bullied in school
Solution – Tax Cut
Problem – Amazon delivery of shaver late
Solution – Tax Cut
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Turned it off when she brought in Megyn Kelly to opine on the Weinstein affair. NBC brass desperate to find a safe haven for Kelly.
Major Major Major Major
@moops:
You’re eliding the part where we somehow are successful at conquering a largely unmapped mountainous nation with one of the world’s largest standing armies.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@moops:
Those things are not mutually exclusive. It all depends on one’s perspective.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: I can’t watch any air where Megyn shows up. She is not only a horrible person but also just really terri-bad at what NBC supposably hired her to do.
I am genuinely happy she is pulling the “iceberg to NBC’s Titanic”.
Wapiti
@Cheryl Rofer: Just guessing here: were the older warheads also a little sloppier/less safe than current warheads? And did the warhead count at the peak include things like artillery shells and man-pack devices that were significantly smaller (less yield and less material) than ICBM/bomb warheads?
Corner Stone
@Spanky: No, I get she’s doing their bidding well. I mean the actual physical mechanics of it. She can’t form questions, she can’t read off a cue or prompt and is just generally awkward as hell after all these years.
If, for example, you watch early Joy Reid segments. She was a little unsteady, missed her cues once in a while and could seem uncomfortable at times. Compare to now – she has tightened way, way up, engages in a dynamic way with her guests and also her material and just seems to be having a blast.
Repatriated
@Major Major Major Major: For some definitions of “conquer”, it’s not terribly difficult.
Those particular definitions tend to be synonymous with “crimes against humanity”, though.
Wapiti
@Major Major Major Major: With a smaller army than we had last time we failed there…
Cheryl Rofer
@low-tech cyclist: Rocky Flats was able to build a great many more than 80 a year, not sure how many off the top of my head. It was cheaper to build facilities back then, without some of the safety features we require now. And it was a cumulative total.
VOR
@Major Major Major Major: Wait, you don’t subscribe the South Park Underpants Gnome planning theories?
Just One More Canuck
@Corner Stone: Are you talking about something specific or just making a general observation? Because either way, it’s true
Frankensteinbeck
@Stan:
You are thinking about garden variety cowards. Trump is a coward on a level I have rarely imagined. The man totally cannot handle confrontation. Sticking his neck out on any issue terrifies him. Even firing people he has total power over is something he can only handle if someone else delivers the message and he never has to talk to the fired person again. I’m guessing he got bitten on the Yemen raid, realized that he can look like a loser actually ordering military actions that fail, and he has never done it again. Note that even the Syrian base bombing was a fake production Russia collided with. The absolute chickenshit nature of the man is gobsmacking.
To the OP, what he does is make meaningless ‘I’m so tough’ threats. A larger number of nukes helps him pretend to be a tough guy. He can’t comprehend numbers, only a grade schooler’s ‘I have the biggest and the most nukes ever!’ He’s a moron.
Kelly
@low-tech cyclist: We weren’t particular back then so facilities cost less and went up faster. I suspect we’ve spent more, even inflation adjusted, cleaning up those closed facilities than we spent building and operating them.
David Evans
@Mike in DC: which of your allies would welcome becoming a priority target? Not to mention that a US bomber base in (for instance) the UK would be an easy target for short-ranged submarine-launched missiles. Putting your weapons far inland in the continental US at least forces the adversary to use long-range weapons which are easily detectable on launch and give a relatively long warning time.
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: Well now you’re just being insulting. Think critically over FEEEEEELINGS? Next you’ll demand the populace floss.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jeffro:
Yes, Trump contradicts himself in the same sentence and his base loves that? WTF?
Most of Trump’s tweets can be reasonably paraphrased “Things are the best EVER thanks to my leadership, anyone who says otherwise is a TRATIOR! But we need to act NOW to stop now the situation is so DIRE from the incompetence of our leadership!” Winston Smith wept. That’s not just 2+2=5 but 2+2= Apple. Not only did Orwell underestimate the power of Double Think but he never understood it could happen in the midst of a free society and to people with unrestricted information. If 1984 was written again The Party would be claiming that the Party was leading the resistance against Goldenstien, who was in fact in charge of the country, because look how messed up this horrible police state is.
Another Scott
@trollhattan: My recollection is that Haig said (in response to a question):
(roughly) “I’m in charge here, [pause] at the White House [pause], pending the return of the Vice President.”
Actually, it was, Constitutionally, gentlemen, you have the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of State in that order, and should the President decide he wants to transfer the helm to the Vice President, he will do so. He has not done that. As of now, I am in control here, in the White House, pending return of the Vice President and in close touch with him. If something came up, I would check with him, of course.
More than a bit inartful (control is a bad word under the circumstances), but not sinister, IMHO.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
moops
@Major Major Major Major: I actually think a conventional war with DPRK could succeed. DPRK is not nearly on as good of terms with China as it was at the start of the Korean War. China might actually decide it would be better to absorb the refugees than prop up their neighbor. The Juche Socialists are not a good brand for modern communism. It is an embarrassment to have a Stalin-style cult-of-personality with a Divine Leader suppressing a communist nation.
…but China does have a very big military that needs *something* to do. I don’t know if they would be shamed if DPRK fell.
AnonPhenom
….anybody know why Putin wants Trump to violate these? If the treaties were no longer in effect because the United States violated them, Russia would be free to …do what??
Amir Khalid
@Cheryl Rofer:
I agree about Trump’s cowardice. He probably won’t dare strike first. But I fear he’s more likely to blunder into a nuclear conflict. In this tense climate created by his war of words with Jong-un and the US military getting all up in North Korea’s face, he could all too easily say something or order some really unwise action that puts Jong-un in a spot and makes war seem the only option.
Frankensteinbeck
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
His base are tired of being made fun of for being dumbasses. They want an incoherent dumbass president to prove they are the best ever and actually right about everything.
AnonPhenom
@AnonPhenom:
(beyond simply being in a position to build more of it’s own nukes)
trollhattan
@Humboldtblue:
Even though most is being pushed offshore the smoke has settled to ground level in the Valley and the air literally tastes like a combo camp and garbage fire. A pair of Blackhawks just flew past, headed towards Napa-Sonoma.
ruemara
Since kittens are a required daily thing now, here’s Surprise getting a flea combing. These two are adorable as heck but his adopted sibling is trying me. She’s pooping in random spots since last night. Not when we’re gone, but when we’re home and giving attention to the cat that wants the attention. I’ve got two boxes out, so she pooped in another spot instead. Girl cats are the worst when they have issues. She doesn’t like being held, petted or being looked at, won’t play with us, but if her bro is getting love, she takes it personal. I’m going to have to review all my behavior stuff from Dr. Yin.
Hurling Dervish
That is not a chart. It’s an elephant under a hat.
Frankensteinbeck
@AnonPhenom:
Putin is power mad, and wants to rebuild the Soviet empire. His army is crap, and can’t win a war against any but the weakest states. Every international agreement he can get other people to break gives him a little more room to bully the tiny countries around his border.
pluky
@low-tech cyclist: Hanaford. Oak Ridge.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Technically true but given Al Haig’s background and general (heh) demeanor the effect was deeply startling. Not to mention sooo surprising the Reagan White House would stumble during a crisis. “What vice president? Oh him, yeah, we’re sure he’s around somewhere.”
Sloane Ranger
@schrodingers_cat: It presents a dilemma to the poor Secret Service agents on duty. Do you do your sworn duty and shoot the people trying to prevent your protectee from starting WWIII or do you help them by shooting the President yourself?
I suppose they could just pretend they haven’t seen anything, turn their back and whistle very loudly.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Andrés deserves a goddamned Presidential Medal of Freedom for what he’s doing, but he’ll never get one from Mango Mussolini.
MomSense
@schrodingers_cat:
And Sen. NFTG Corker revealed that pretty much all of his colleagues consider trump to be unfit and yet they don’t say or do anything about it. At what point is it not treasonous for every member of congress and the cabinet to allow a clear and present threat to our country to continue to put us all in danger?
Mike in DC
@David Evans:
We have airbases in Diego Garcia, among other places. We have more than a few island airbases in low population density areas. Ditto for ports. Putting the retaliatory capacity in the continental US increases the exposure of both the populace and our resource base.
ruemara
@MomSense: I just want to impeach them all and toss most in jail and all of them out. A girl can dream.
pamelabrown53
@schrodingers_cat: @51.
Bethany Frankel is doing yeoman’s work.. Plus Trump allowed the Jones Act waiver to expire. On top of that the FEMA website appears to be more interested in PR (not Puerto Rico) than disseminating the facts. Also, too, nobody is even talking about the on-going hardships of the US Virgin Islands.
mad citizen
We should also bring back the gold standard.
trollhattan
@Sloane Ranger:
Recalling the discussions during l’affaire Comey how far the wingers have penetrated the FBI and CIA I wouldn’t count on some heroic SS agent preventing Trump from triggering Armageddon. I have an acquaintance who’s now retired from the service and served on HW’s and Clinton’s details, and I know what he’d say.
Adam L Silverman
@moops: A war on the Korean peninsula is about as close as you’re going to come to an unwinnable conventional war. And that is if it remains confined to just the DPRK, the ROK, and the US. If the PRC or the Russians become involved then it becomes even more unlikely anyone wins and everyone loses. More likely would be Russia using a war on the Korean peninsula to move on the NATO states in eastern Europe that he believes should be brought back under Russian control. At the same time he’d provide covert support to the DPRK without becoming directly involved. It largely flew under the radar last week, but Russia has now provided the DPRK with a new set of high speed connections to the Internet.
Another Scott
@low-tech cyclist: Brookings has a good summary of plants involved in various aspects of nuclear weapons production (up to 1998).
It was (and remains) a gigantic enterprise.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer:
Apparently, “FAKE NEWS” is a tell that something is true, as “Believe me” is a tell that he is lying?
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
In answer to your question, no we shouldn’t do absolutely stupid shit to appease this absolutely stupid fuck collection of protoplasm.
But you knew that.
Mike in NC
Trump must have once watched “Dr Strangelove” and imagined himself as the Slim Pickens character riding the bomb down. Great ratings. The best bomb.
Yutsano
@pamelabrown53: A friend of mine in the Army (medic, polyglot, all around great guy) is deployed to the USVI right now. He’s been giving me bits and pieces of information about what’s going on there. The biggest issue (at least on St Croix): no potable water. He sees this as ugly and getting worse.
And he’s actually an optimist.
Cheryl Rofer
@AnonPhenom: Presumably if the US started making a lot more nuclear weapons, in violation of those arms control treaties, then Russia would have to as well, and, as you note, this is not good for Russia. I think that the assumption that Trump is acting in concert with Putin has pretty well been blown up (sorry!) by now. Trump is being Trump, and that is bad enough.
catclub
@moops:
I suspect you do not live in Seoul. Or have relatives there.
or depend on Korean made electronics or vehicles.
Cheryl Rofer
@Amir Khalid: Yes. There are a number of ways to blunder into war, and Trump is fully competent to find them.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: Eww
A Ghost To Most
@Cheryl Rofer: They are now building house after house up on Rocky Flats. I wonder if the buyers even know that their house stands on plutonium-tainted ground.
Yutsano
@pluky: I can tell you Hanford no longer has the facilities or the expertise to build bombs anymore. The contractors have been soaking the government for 50+ years to pretend to clean that up but they have demolished a lot of the buildings where that work had been done.
Ruckus
@Chris:
Do you wonder some days if he will end up like Mussolini?
ruemara
@Corner Stone: So… November?
@Ruckus: Is it too much to hope that he skips a few steps but the entire admin does a mussolini?
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
One weird trick that seemed to work with our semi-feral Annie was laying on the floor, belly up, while doing stuff like watching TV. It seemed to make us less threatening to her.
And feather toys on a stick and string are a godsend for shy or suspicious kitties. Annie was willing to play with one of those long before she was willing to let us pet her.
Speaking of which, we now have to give her a pill every 3 days for her pemphigus, and the dose seems to be about right. She’s not thrilled that we chase her around and pick her up, but we try to keep it playful and give her a ton of pets, so she tolerates it after a few growls and hisses.
Brachiator
@germy:
OT: I think you mentioned the recent “blackish” episode about post partum depression recently. It’s been getting a fair amount of praise.
A Ghost To Most
@Ruckus: I certainly hope so. If anyone has earned the right to a manila rope ride, it is the Great Orange Shitstain (and maybe Flynn).
Kay
28 work days left for them to pass their crap tax bill. Tick tick tick!
Distract them. What’s Hillary Clinton up to? No good, I bet! They better check her emails.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Tackling a squirmy kitteh is far more difficult than tackling a waddling orange hulk. You are so brave, I shudder at the thought of pilling boss cat.
*Bows in the general direction of Mnem.
MomSense
@ruemara:
I’ll settle for impeachment but really they should all go to jail.
Spanky
@Corner Stone: (/Lunch break) Ah. Well, I haven’t had a TV in a couple of years, so I haven’t had the pleasure of watching her first-hand. Sounds a bit like a decline in mental acuity, no? It’s no secret that she’s Of A Certain Age (or beyond).
And I’m not positing that to be snarky.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
Annie is our smallest and most passive cat. Trying to pill Keaton, who tends to panic when you restrain him, would be a whole other story that would probably end in an ER trip. Luckily, he’s healthy so far.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: That is one cute kitteh.
*swoons*
Kay
This year. They could pass their crap tax bill next year, but injustice delayed is injustice denied so these incompetency milestones are important.
Another Scott
@AnonPhenom: IMO (and I’m no expert) Putin is willing to have Donnie violate various treaties because the payoff is more chaos among our friends and allies. Putin lives to sow chaos in the west, if it is chaos that he thinks he can control.
United policies are required to have sanctions and mutual defense treaties work. Sowing discord is a way to undercut all that.
Putin is desperate to have sanctions lifted (and higher oil and gas prices) because the major/only threat to his hold on power is the crappy economy in Russia. Breaking up the EU, and NATO, and ASEAN, and all the rest, makes his weak position stronger as it lets him have relatively inexpensive foreign adventures (e.g. the Ukraine invasion, except for the sanctions) that increase his popularity at home. “Greater Russia!!11”
Putin doesn’t want an arms race. He wants to throw his weight around without serious consequences. He doesn’t worry about the USA having 40,000 nuclear weapons compared to his ~ 6,000 – he knows that would take decades and cost huge amounts of money that is unlikely to actually be spent. But he wouldn’t be at all unhappy if Donnie proposes such things because it gives him a propaganda tool (“… I’m just a peaceful leader of a peaceful nation, unlike those crazy, war-mongering Americans who want to destroy us all…”) and because it causes discord.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: Yes wise one. You should post on the FP again. Your no-nonsense analysis deserves FP treatment.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t see why it would be any different than the first Korean War; the North Korean army would create a mess, get massacred and then peace would be impossible except on Chine’s terms.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: I’ll try it. I don’t want her to feel left out. Plus, I can’t stand cleaning up poo & pee from carpet. 4 incidents so far and once I managed to catch before she started. She does know she’s going where she shouldn’t. Once I put her down, she went into her box peed where she should’ve, so it’s a response, not an illness. Oh well, you gotta learn their language.
Adam L Silverman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It would be a mess all around.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
If there’s one thing we can count on with North Korea it’s they will fight to the last baby, armed with an exploding binky. They’ve been raised in a petri dish for generations, effectively sealed off from the greater world and there will be no candy-and-flower welcome committees.
Kay
Delightful news! The thing that no one says about Kobach is he ISN’T some fringe figure on the Right. He was Romney’s advisor, although Romney denied it, and he’s THE big shot election policy person on the Right. This is the Republican brain trust.
This is the BEST they have and he couldn’t even manage a fake Presidential council stacked with friendlies.
MattF
Unfortunately, telling someone ‘Do not press the big red button‘, however slowly and distinctly you say it, does not actually decrease the possibility that the person will press the big red button. Just saying.
germy
@Brachiator: There were tears in my eyes last night while I watched it. Powerful episode.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
Yes, the Republicans ARE trying to kill as many Puerto Ricans as possible, indirectly, and discretely. It is a shocking realization, that the White House leadership is actually the kind of fascists who secretly (just as the German Fascists did, secretly) wish to dispose of (aka KILL) a large population of their fellow citizens.
This is another case of the projection! RWNJs accused the prior (Black led) administration of planning to use abandoned Walmarts to kill Republicans. Now Republicans are in control, and are misusing FEMA to allow Puerto Ricans to die. Even though many Puerto Ricans are actually pretty conservative.
AlmostReally, it’s scarier than the nuclear madness in the Oval Office.Barbara
@randy khan: Trump will not ignore the wild fires in California, at least not totally. He is ignoring Puerto Rico in part because they have no electoral votes but also in part because the scope of devastation in remote areas being visited on mostly Spanish speaking citizens is harder to make real for people on the mainland. Even if California never sends him electoral votes, the devastation will be on every nightly news broadcast and his neglect or refusal to send resources would be a headline story. This is about image for him. Everything is about image for him.
cat
OT, but has anyone else notice that the Drumpf’s “hair” has been sparser and flatter in public lately? I swear I saw bits of scalp peaking through the other day. Did Bannon get custody of the Aqua Net and the teasing comb in the divorce?
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan:
No one respects the niceties anymore.
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t think it’s shut up that’s why. I think it’s because we have a strong enough democratic tradition that the generals themselves would be unlikely to try to assume civilian powers of the president, based on more than 200 years of it not happening, even with assassinations and wars and debilitated presidents. My guess is that generals would be likely to even deny that they have exercised authority in lieu of the president if they can make that case.
MattF
@Jeffro: I’ve noticed that Rubin has gone full steam into advocating impeachment. I do wonder where she’ll end up.
Stan
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
On the contrary (and I am starting to fear this is really what Putin thinks…) having the USA and the PRC beat the stuffing out of each other leaves Russia as the remaining sole power on the planet. Sweet revenge for WW2 when the USSR and Nazi Germany pummeled each other into total destruction (Germany) and close-enough-to-total destruction (USSR) as the western powers stood by. I’m not saying that’s what happened (although it has much more than a grain of truth) but it is a russian view.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: And there was the fact that he actually had the law wrong.
MattF
@Stan: I think Putin is mainly an opportunist, and lord knows that Trump and company offer lots of opportunities.
J R in WV
@Cheryl Rofer:
I went to the Vox article where you are quoted, and right next to your mention, there was a story about a pharmacist who fills many prescriptions for members of congress, including for Alzheimers!
That may be scarier than the Nuke nonsense, since they can’t increase the stockpile by much in the next 3 years.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
Ah, for the good old days of “democracy, whiskey, sexy.” (And boy did we ever eat that shyte up.)
schrodingers_cat
@Barbara: That we even have to depend on this contingency is the real scary part to me. Also, the 200+ years of democratic tradition didn’t prevent the election of some one who is so openly contemptuous of democratic norms. May be we don’t have to fear usurpation of power from this set but what about the norms set? How do we know that this doesn’t lead to Yahya Khan and won’t give rise to a Gen Zia in the future.
Edited for clarity.
J R in WV
@low-tech cyclist:
I’m not the experienced expert Cheryl is, but from photos I’ve seen of work going on in those facilities, they were slapped together with poor/no real safety engineering or regard for the worker’s long term health or safety, because we were at war.
Just expert machinists working strange metals.
They would be unfortunate casualties of that war, not victims of crazed politicians.
Kay
@cat:
I can’t really look at him. I have to just glance. One of my sisters emailed me unflattering pictures of him regularly during the campaign as a running joke and I never really recovered. There are a LOT of them. She may be the world’s top archivist of photographs where he looks fat. We’re obsessive people.
SgrAstar
@germy: papier mache, not so much, but my dioramas are incredible.
trollhattan
@MattF:
My crayon book take is Putin has a tactical goal of getting Trump to end sanctions and a strategic long-term goal of creating destabilizing events in western democracies to help his standing in the eyes of his countrymen to keep hold of power. I don’t believe he could want a potentially global shooting war starting to his south.
Lyrebird
@Jeffro: Huh, once I again I am improbably on the same wavelength as Jennifer PreviouslyProMoloch Rubin. Just wrote to my rep. and asked him to please step up to impeach or use Article 25 *before* the lives of all our servicefolk in South Korea and Japan get tossed in the dustbin over someone’s ego. Used the question, “Is this your Republican party?”
NOTE: it’s not that I don’t value Korean and Japanese lives, it’s that I want the message to be heard by the Rep for a R+30 district.
germy
I’m sorry, but I think Pierce has lost his mind.
He wants Obama to “suit up”:
moops
@catclub: I didn’t say it would be without costs, or advisable. Yes, I might even be personally impacted by the loss Korean goods. I’m guessing you think pointing this out was important?
The logistics of winning in Korea might be better now than the last time, but the main predictor of such an adventure ending poorly is that Trump is President.
“winning” the war would be mostly like winning in Iraq, where conventional forces are irrelevant to the initial victory. Since DPRK has no desired resources to pillage and is not part of the modern crusades and sketched out by the Project for a New American Century, this operation would run much like Desert Storm, not like Desert Shield.
and that might now all be thwarted thanks to hackers accessing military plans. Bet Putin didn’t count on that result when he plugged DPRK back in.
germy
@SgrAstar:
I bet trump thinks that’s something his wife wears.
schrodingers_cat
@moops: According to Pierces of the world its always the woman’s fault or the black person’s fault.
trollhattan
O/T Good riddance to trash.
Before the union goes apeshit I hope they take a moment to appreciate that they badly need to weed out bad cops, not protect them. Bad cops put everybody at risk, including other cops.
Lyrebird
@Barbara: I hope your interpretation is correct, and I appreciate your laying it out!
Also, I’m strongly persuaded on any straws being more straws than no straws.
Kay
@germy:
Obama was SUCH a talented Dem politician. Why can’t people just let him make these calls? I mean, honestly. There are a total of two (2) who had that much success from like 1980 on. This is a small club! He’s unusually talented. Just give him that. It’s his.
Baud
@germy:
Good question, Charlie. Here’s another good question. Why were you obsessed with has-been Henry Kissinger when there was a fascist at the gate?
Brachiator
@mad citizen:
Trump would love that. Like Goldfinger, Trump loves gold.
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: Absolutely. Those are valid concerns. We have had idiot presidents before — Warren Harding, for instance, but it has been a long time. Nonetheless, we have to look at probabilities in forecasting the likelihood of such a development. The real problem that is not going away is that the electoral college system is definitively broken. The short term fix is to expand the number of members of the House of Representatives. That will not help the Senate, but it would make gerrymandering districts much less convenient.
El Caganer
@germy: I read that, too, and came to pretty much the same conclusion you did. What audience does Pierce think there is for thoughtful eloquence in this country, and why would he think that people would pay attention to Obama as an ex-president when they had no problem sitting there chewing their cud while watching a nihilistic legislature block him at every turn while he actually was President? Let the guy enjoy his retirement. And I don’t give a shit how much he gets paid for giving a speech.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
It may also be that she doesn’t like the location of the boxes. The little stinker. When G found Charlotte and her sister Olive in a parking lot, Charlotte happily used a “litter box” filled with shredded newspaper, but Olive held out for a REAL litter box with ACTUAL litter when we got home, thankyewverymuch.
Betty Cracker
I think Pierce is right. Fight me! :)
ETA: Never mind. I’ll put up a post about it — fight me there!
zhena gogolia
@ruemara:
OMG how cute!
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
“It was (and remains) a gigantic enterprise.”
And largely part of the black budget, ie, not in the formal budget because it was super secret squirrel shit. So we don’t even know how much it cost to fire up that giant industry. Not really.
catclub
@Kay:
I think NC Republicans are looking to get into the running on gerrymandering – with judicial districts, not just general elections!
Kay
I’m torn about this because Girl Scout people are really pretty great. The “leaders”- they’re some fierce pro-girl people :)
I’d hate for girls to be like “I GOT INTO” Boy Scouts as if it’s better. Also- isn’t the name a bit of a problem? They have to change to “Scouts”, I would think.
germy
@Betty Cracker: I spent eight years worrying Obama would get shot. I don’t want him getting shot leading Pierce’s resistance.
Eric NNY
@Betty Cracker: I’m with Betty, but then again, I normally am. Obama can punch when he needs to and we need our best fighters.
hueyplong
@cat: fwiw I also think some of whatever is on his head is falling out.
J R in WV
@zhena gogolia:
Awww, Squeee!!! They do wriggle a lot when you comb their bellies. We live without lawn now, in the woods, and don’t see many fleas any more. Plus treating the big dogs, which act as flea sweepers, compared to cats. Fleas much prefer dogs, which is a good thing.
And did I say Squeeee!?
Elizabelle
@Barbara: Warren Harding had the grace to die in office.
ETA: March 1921 to August 1923 — I can’t do math — it’s 29 months, not 17.
I sincerely hope der Trump will follow his lead. Soon. I don’t think we can take 17 months of his misrule. Albeit, after Pence and Ryan are out of the succession chain.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
@germy:
I’m torn between you two. On the one hand, we need all hands on deck. On the other, Pierce has demonstrably bad political instincts and Obama has demonstrably great ones, so ….
catclub
@Elizabelle:
I think all the hopes in this regard will be in vain – in spite of the apparent stroke waiting to happen. Something about the good dying young.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Aw jeez, write about something important or frivolous, but not that.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: I agree with all hands on the deck part but not the Brazilian banks part.
Baud
So we need all hands on deck, but Hillary should STFU. Got it.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
It will be the same with Obama.
zzyzx
What’s really bad about that article is that it not just asked Obama to stand up, but to change his core beliefs and argue in ways that are against why people liked him in the first place. Partisan fighting and assuming the worst of people are not Obama’s strengths. If that’s what you want, you’re asking the wrong person.
germy
@zzyzx: Good point.
SatanicPanic
@germy: What difference would it make either way? Does he think BARACK OBAMA has some ability to influence Republican lawmakers? Did he sleep through the last ten years?
ruemara
@germy: White men always own black men. Even those who have real accomplishments besides writing a column and who’ve contributed and done more to improve America than said columnists. White men own every minority and woman they see and cannot help acting like it instead of looking at each other to say do better.
Sorry white males, but after 40 years of having more white and male friends than anything else, these past few years have really made me question things I normally would’ve shrugged off as not understanding what they’re saying.
Bobby Thomson
@Gin & Tonic: one of my pet peeves.
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
Way to blow off Tip O’Neill.
Bobby Thomson
@cat:
No, we understand that people often do that. We’re just saying they’re stupid and wrong. Or at least I’m saying that.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Or maybe that’s how you want him to be, or have chosen to view him, and thus choose to interpret his words accordingly?
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
Would he have been fired if the victim, now dead, wasn’t a COP?
I wonder.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Peanut is a Girl Scout. and will remain a GIRL SCOUT.
SFAW
I do love the Pierce-hate that appears, time and again, in this joint.
Wait … did I say “love”? I mis-typed — must be auto-correct — it should have been “get tired of.”
Or do we think that purity ponies are only Bernie supporters?
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: That’s how he has written about HRC. I don’t usually read him because his pop culture references are so old that they fly over my head.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
I’m willing to take this one at face value that you don’t fuck with a nurse in that fashion and expect to get away with that shit. Confess I was gratified that the cops in Idaho called him out too (they don’t always cover for one another) and expect that did have an effect, but even sans that a decent big city department absolutely needed to can his sorry ass. Many, of course, would not have and that remains our biggest problem wrt ethical policing.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: I had no love lost for CP even before BS ran for President on a borrowed label.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Stunned, I am, to read that.
Mnemosyne
@SFAW:
Pierce has been whining since 2008 (at least) that Obama is Doing It Wrong, He Should Listen To Me!
Some of us are tired of it.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
There’s a difference between that, and deciding he’s a racist/misogynist.
Mnemosyne
@SFAW:
When a person consistently decides that he knows better than Black and female politicians, after a certain point he needs to wonder if the problem is him, not the politicians.
I don’t think that Pierce is consciously racist or misogynist, but his unexamined assumptions about race and gender make his commentary quite limited in its general usefulness.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: FWIW never said he was. That’s the leap you made. As for racism or misogyny there are shades of it. Many liberal men come across as extremely condescending when they are talking about anyone other than their own cohort.
See for example how MSM covers Nancy Pelosi.
@Mnemosyne: What she said.
Frankensteinbeck
@Barbara:
You wildly underestimate Trump’s well established racism. His image is not all he cares about. He just doesn’t care about things we consider basic.
@Eric NNY:
I think we have no fucking right to demand anything of Obama. He carried the world on his shoulders for eight years, did it brilliantly and faithfully, accomplished incredible things, and got shit on for it nonstop. Anything he does now, I will wish him well and honor his memory.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Were it only black or female politicians, I would tend to be in agreement. Since he does not appear to limit his comments to just blacks or women, I am less convinced of your thesis.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes, you are correct, you did not use the word “racist” or “misogynist” in that (original) sentence.
Thanks FSM that I completely misunderstood your “point.”
Uncle Cosmo
@Origuy: That’s not “the problem with the 25th Amendment.” The problem, specifically, is that it is designed to ensure continuity of command authority in situations where POTUS agrees that s/he will be hors de combat (literally!) for a period of time, e.g., under general anesthesia. If VPOTUS & the Cabinet attempt to sideline POTUS without such consent, the situation readily morphs into The Mother Of All Fluster-Clucks. And IIRC the bar for making a contested 25th-Amendment solution stick is in fact higher than that for impeachment (IIRC, 2/3 of both Houses of Congress vs simple majority of HoR for impeachment & 2/3 of Senate for removal). IMO it was designed to be more stringent to elimpossibility for an intra-administration political coup. The clear message is that if POTUS is unfit for permanent reasons & won’t go quietly, you impeach & remove him, period.
Go read the frackin’ amendment & tell me how I’m wrong about this, why doncha..
Chris
@Ruckus:
I kind of want him to, but the state of the nation being what it is, I can’t imagine it ever happening absent a series of events that would be far worse than anything we’ve seen to date.
geg6
@germy:
Yeah, I read that. I have to say that I sort of agree with some of what he says. But it’s also a lot of bullshit in that I really don’t think Obama stepping up and speaking out will do anything other than buck up our side (and maybe the few lost and pitiful “sane” Republicans left). And it will fully enrage Dolt 45 and his moronic fan club.
J R in WV
@SiubhanDuinne:
But Tip was a Democrat, and even Generals know you can’t have a Dem replace an R – that would upset the natural order of the Universe!!
Uncle Cosmo
(Can’t edit above comment, FYWP – “eliminate the possibility”…)
geg6
@Baud:
In fairness to Pierce, I don’t think he said that Hillary should just shut up. I don’t recall reading anything by him saying any such thing and I read his stuff every day. Could be I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.
J R in WV
@SFAW:
Really, columnists are hired to criticize everyone and anyone who doesn’t work for their news/opinion outlet. So Pierce criticizes almost everyone, except when he feels really good about something, when he can admire in public. Something he wasn’t really hired for, but can get away with once in a while.
I’ve no opinion on his racism or other prejudices. I don’t know him and read him rarely.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: CP has been extremely condescending about President Obama and HRC. The last I checked they were a black man and a woman respectively. Why is it necessary for me to be a CP fan? I get it that you like him. Must I share your opinions to comment on Balloon Juice?
Anonymous At Work
Seriously, didn’t Obama shut this crap down in the debate with Romney and the “fewer horses and bayonets” line?
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
Interesting reading. Some facilities have fissile materials measured in grams: 1.8 grams of U-233.
Other sites have fissile materials measured in metric tons: 437 metric tons of Pu-2nn don’t recall exactly.
But the variation in amounts and exactitude is interesting. Billions and billions of $$$$ being spent, also. Some buildings measured in acres, or millions of sq ft… I’ve seen a closed uranium processing plant in a mining area in the Great Basin of WY, miles away it was still vastly huge.
Uncle Cosmo
@MomSense: Settle for impeachment and removal or it’s worthless.
Fuck, I’d settle for a Double-Agnew Watergate-style denouement – Pence gets caught with his hand in the till, swaps his resignation for a plea of nolo contendere, some basically sane career pol who Trumpolini doesn’t already hate gets nominated to VPOTUS, Bobby 3-Styx drops a boxcarful of evidence incriminating Trump, who then resigns in exchange for his very own nolo (the best nolo! The biggest nolo!). That may be the best we can reasonably hope for near-term.
patrick II
@AnonPhenom:
Before the nuclear arms deal with Gorbachev, the Soviet Union had mare warheads than to U.S.. Putin locks at a deal where bath countries reduced the count to an equal number as a “loss” for the Son it Union they should have up with more. He thinks that it a bad deal. In that way he is very like Trump. There are always winners and lasers in a deal, never win win.
He also has complained that he fares d dual threat with China on the other sideI so of course he needs more missies than just these needed to balance the U.S. arsenal. (As if China and us didn’t have our own problems.
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: He claims he was trying to say that he was talking about the ranking of people in the Executive Branch and the Cabinet, not the Order of Succession. And in that, he’s right, and in the context of the sentences, it makes sense. (The Speaker isn’t going to come in and run the White House when the living VP is out of town, no matter the circumstances (at least none that I can think of).) But he made a mess of explaining it and got a lot of people riled up in the process.
People in the White House and the Press talking past each other when the President has been shot is certainly something to be avoided…!
;-)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
cat
@Kay: I have trouble looking away sometimes. It’s as if Dorian Gray’s picture was a person.
Robert Sneddon
@Uncle Cosmo: U-233 is a weird and practically useless (as in it has no real practical use) isotope that costs a lot to make — it can be bred from thorium (Th-232) or more easily via another couple of pathways. Last I heard the US had a couple of tonnes of it in store left over from the try-anything-nuclear 1950s and they were figuring out what to do with it. It CAN be used to make nuclear weapons but not as good as the regular U-235 HEU designs.
Pu-239, as pure as you can make it is the isotope used in nuclear weapons. Pu-240 is an unwanted pollutant as is Pu-241 (which is I think fissile but has other problems). Pu-238 doesn’t go bang but a few tonnes of it would be nice for other uses; it self-heats from radioactive decay and only produces easily shielded alpha particles so it’s used on spacecraft for power generation and to keep the craft warm far from the sun. Sadly it’s rather tricky to make. Cheryl did a page on RTGs a couple of days back and how American production of Pu-238 is being ramped up again after the old facilities got boarded up after the safety regs got tightened.
(I could tell you a funny story about old wooden sheds in the British nuclear weapons research establishment and the problems sourcing actual lead paint in today’s safety-conscious world but then I’d have to shoot you).