A few days after Trump threatened to take away the broadcast license of NBC News (dumb, can’t do it, but still), Times’ social media editor Caspar Milquetoast created a new set of social media guidelines.
• Always treat others with respect on social media. If a reader questions or criticizes your work or social media post, and you would like to respond, be thoughtful. Do not imply that the person hasn’t carefully read your work.
• If the criticism is especially aggressive or inconsiderate, it’s probably best to refrain from responding. We also support the right of our journalists to mute or block people on social media who are threatening or abusive. (But please avoid muting or blocking people for mere criticism of you or your reporting.)
I have a simple question: Is there any fight in these fuckers?
For all the mistakes it still makes, I’ll be a Post subscriber for a long time simply because of “Democracy Dies in Darkness”. That was a powerful signal that the Post recognized that they are in a fight for their lives, that Trump is an existential threat, and they’re going to fight. And it is no exaggeration that Trump is such a threat:
“It’s frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write,” Trump said. “And people should look into it.”
The Times’ social medial policy – as reasonable-seeming as some of it is – is the opposite. They seem to be suffering under the delusion that genteel politesse on the part of their reporters will be taken into account by Trump, Breitbart, Fox and the rest of their enemies. Apparently, they’ve slept through the last couple of decades of politics, since it will only be taken as a sign of weakness and submission.
Corner Stone
I am wondering when they are just going to go for it and hire Erick Erickson as Editor In Chief.
khead
See also, ESPN and the NFL.
Planetpundit
Wow first up!……ok
LOVED the Yankees loss
I miss Tunch however Long Live the King so Steve Rules
David: Great NYT piece
Everyone else be safe, have a good weekend and don’t ride in a Subaru with Cole
Corner Stone
I think it may have been on Cole’s thread in the last few days, but there was a mention that when the left (aka reality based criticism) says something all they react with is grumbling. When the right wing howls and foams at the mouth they hire more rwnj “writer” personalities to contribute.
rikyrah
Lips pursed ?
trollhattan
i.e., Every current Trump supporter. “He’s just doing what he promised.”
Corner Stone
@khead: ESPN has not understood their own business model for at least a decade.
Waspuppet
“Don’t let Boss Tweed think we’re against him or anything!”
“We need to respect the anger of everyday Germans who feel they’ve been left behind!”
“We need to run a long, sympathetic profile of Nixon supporters so they stop saying we’re biased.”
ThresherK
The NYT is in danger of going Full NPR.
Keep apologising and the battering will stop, Times.
Waspuppet
@trollhattan: He, and they, keep saying that like the American people didn’t decisively reject him and give the other party gains in both houses of Congress.
geg6
Fuck the fucking New York fucking Times. Fuck them sideways. They suck, those fucking toadies.
MJS
I’m surprised any of them engage on social media in the first place. These days, only one of two things can happen- they’ve either written some truly horrendous piece of crap normalizing Trump, in which case they’ll be rightly ripped, or they’ll correctly report on this abomination of an administration, in which case the wing nuts will come out in droves. Why bother?
Hunter Gathers
The NYT is super concerned that Billy Bob Jo Jack from Bumfuck isn’t going to get the NYT delivered to his meth lab if they keep reporting what his White Trash God Emperor says.
Gretchen
@Hunter Gathers: Best summary ever. I’m sure the blue NYT bags are all over Trump country, and respect must be paid.
MattF
Particularlyy since the Post managed to shed Cillizza and since the Transformation of Jennifer Rubin. The Times sees itself appealing to a pretty specific demo—which I once belonged to. The old MattF was a nicer guy, but that was then.
Cermet
Well, for a blog, maybe some respect between posters is a good idea; relative to reporters that kiss ass and allow people to die because “both sides” or lets play neutral for overt lies, a rather different mater entirely.
Elizabelle
@Hunter Gathers: That’s about it, too.
Who is holding the FTF NYTimes hostage? Carlos Slim, a major owner? Pinch Sulzberger, Clinton Derangement Syndrome hack extraordinaire? Dean Baquet for who knows what, but he is the epitome of Kay’s “disaster hire”? Putin or Russians? What do they have?
Something’s been going really wrong with them, for a few years now. They go out of their way to remind us they are the hacks who hired and retained Judith Miller for way too long.
How do we find out?
Are other observers slagging the NYTimes as much as we are? Who?
Baud
I wish the NYT had put the same effort into journalism guidelines for covering domestic politics.
oatler.
Don’t worry, tomorrow Chuck Todd is going to really rake Nikki Haley and Chuck Kasich over the coals, and boy are they gonna regret it! Bothsides rulez!
geg6
@Hunter Gathers:
That’s what makes me crazy about them. WE are their audience. And they hate us and grovel for the approval of people who don’t have the reading ability to understand half of what they write and who, even if they are the more literate among them, disdain everything journalism stands for. I hate people who grovel for the approval of the most unworthy of such dolts.
Timurid
@Elizabelle:
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one. Remember Spayd’s Razor:
trollhattan
From the burnt coast the fire fatalities now total 35 with more than 200 unresolved missing person reports outstanding, hopefully all due to the broken communications system. High winds are back this morninng so no relief for the firefight. Even if a more slow-breaking disaster than a quake, tornado or hurricane the final toll will rank with everything else that’s hit the country the last two months, regardless of the disaster fatigue.
Elizabelle
@geg6: I know.
“The best readers are the ones we haven’t met yet.”
Our current readers? Fuck them. We give them some open comments threads in which to whinge.
Incidentally, emails.
I think a big problem is whoever is doing their headlines. They use power words for Trump and his band of malfeasors.
Democrats? Always in disarray. Cowardly, really. Which is why we don’t cover them much. Can’t trust them.
Baud
@geg6: I am not their audience seeing as I am not a privileged douchebag.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: Is what’s happening in Santa Rosa etc. the new normal?
Not much science can do about winds, is there?
Elizabelle
@Baud: But I like to read about baby wolves.
Political ones, not so much.
Corner Stone
@Elizabelle:
Nothing a few good guys with shotguns can’t fix. See, that’s the problem. The Godless State of California outlawed and confiscated everyone’s guns. Now they are helpless before the winds of Mother Nature.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Political wolves are so annoying. I wish they would stop emailing me for donations.
randy khan
The Trump rule, of course, is that he can say whatever he wants and his critics cannot. As it’s ever been with petty tyrants.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
To the extent these fires are resulting from the record wet winter and record hot summer, very possible. High rainfall created an abundance of fuel and the long brutal summer assured the fuel was dry and susceptible to burning. Still unresolved is how much responsibility for ignition falls on PG&E for not adequately clearing their powerlines and they’ve been ordered to not disturb any evidence. (Their stock plummeted Friday)
Kathleen
Well at least Michael Gerson wrote op ed in WaPo yesterday telling GOP “it’s time to panic”. Link below is story about the OpEd which I saw posted on my AOL Home Page (apologies if someone already posted a link to this story). Bonus: he also threw Blue Eyed Soul-less some shade.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/10/13/former-bush-aide-issues-startling-warning-to-gop-its-time-to-panic/23242868/
different-church-lady
I dunno, I think you’ve got this backwards: it could be read as, “Hey, Maggie H, when people say your [vugar oral act] of Trump is a load of crap, you have to stop acting like they’re the idiots.”
I think you’re mixing up being toothless in their reporting with attacking their readers. The social media guidelines have nothing to do with the first item.
Big Ole Hound
The NYT no longer has any influence outside NYC so who gives a shit what and how they say anything. The problem is that the three major TV stations are also in NYC so they use the Times a source when no one else in the nation gives a shit what the NY press thinks. I know here on the West coast nobody cares what D.C. or NYC thinks.
Kay
I haven’t been “scared” of Trump- partly that’s because I’m not as vulnerable to him as some, but it’s also because I think he’s a blowhard coward who doesn’t follow through. He’s not going to do jack to the NYtimes, partly because the NYtimes relationship with Donald Trump benefits both parties. They both benefit from this fake adversarial relationship. They both win.
But lately it’s been dawning on me that he actually believes these daily lies he tells. That IS scary because it’s so crazy.
He’s probably delusional- lives in some other reality. Wow. I have to modify how I was thinking about him.
trollhattan
@Big Ole Hound:
Their op-ed columns are carried by dozens if not hundreds of regional papers, mine included, and so get in front of the eyeballs of millions who would otherwise never read the NYT. This is how I can have breakfast spoiled by the unwanted appearance of Douthat or Brooks.
Kay
My daughter works with elderly people. Not “seniors” tooling around in golf carts but very old people who also suffer from dementia. She loves them which is nice, that they found each other like that, but she explains communicating with them like this: “that is their reality”. She has hers and they have theirs, and she can live with that. She’s baffled why people correct them and argue with them because it’s so frustrating for both parties. I just think that’s wild. That’s what I’ll have to do with Trump- look at it from that angle.
trollhattan
Make it so.
JPL
@Kay: Because he is president of the United States, his errors have to be corrected.
joel hanes
Ah, the new civility.
I, for one, look forward to the day that Twitter decides to enforce its terms of service with respect to TheRealAssholeInTheWhiteHouse
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: They are not catering to us, they are catering to their advertisers.
schrodingers_cat
Vichy Times paid a key part in the coronation of the Despot in the WH. They pretend to reprimand him and the Rs in some of their op-ed pieces but in their news stories they are at the solicitous best.
Jeffro
@Elizabelle: that was a cool article…
Jeffro
Btw folks, take all that money you’re not spending on a NYT subscription and go see Against Me! and Bleached, stat. What a show!!
BBA
I’d wager that a part of this is the NYT’s readership leaning old and Jewish (its ownership certainly does). I know the type, in fact I can count a few as close relatives, who think it’s eternally 1948 and Israel is on the verge of being wiped out by the dusky hordes surrounding it, and therefore are willing to tolerate absolutely anything if it’s “good for Israel.” They still think invading Iraq was a good idea and want to invade Iran next. And they read the Times and don’t like seeing their allies on this Most Important Issue insulted.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
I agree in general, but the gift of the Right has been to come up with flashy marketing slogans twisting what the Left says, and the weakness of the Left has been to unwittingly provide opportunities for the Right to capitalize on.
We need writers who can express unmitigated rage with beautifully constructed sentences that speak to all levels of education but provide no openings for distortions by the Right. Good luck finding them.
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: The coast is just nuts. I’ve been our for the past week or so, because we exfiltrated from Sonoma County on Monday once the fires started looking like they might cut off 101 South.
We’re thinking about heading back today, assuming the current high winds don’t totally duck things. It’s finally looking like the fires are starting to get under control.
schrodingers_cat
As long as people keep giving Vichy Times their subscription $$ and page views, despite all the complaints, they are going to keep printing this garbage.
debbie
@Kay:
That’s how every CEO operates. You have to convince yourself before you can convince someone else.
burnspbesq
@trollhattan:
Down here in OC, the “other” fire is still going; 70 percent contained is not the same thing as out, as our noses are confirming this morning. And temps are forecast to be in the 90s through Tuesday. We aren’t done yet.
dmsilev
Speaking of the contrast between the Times and the Post,
Bob Corker on Trump’s biggest problem: The ‘castration’ of Rex Tillerson
At this point, I can’t even begin to imagine a Times writer conducting that interview, or a Times editor letting it go to press. Also, too, Senator Corker is dangerously uncivil.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay:
I can sum up their relationship in one sentence. You pretend to beat me, while I pretend to cry.
schrodingers_cat
@dmsilev: Even Politico is doing a better job than Garbage Times.
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: There’s also some evidence that overly aggressive firefighting over the past few decades is making this worse – too much underbrush and flammable materials that would otherwise have been burnt off in small brush fires. It’s just built up over the past 40 years, and it’s feeding the large fires now.
The only silver lining is that the current fires are certainly clearing all that out. >_<
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@joel hanes:
Why won’t Twitter ban Trump? Or at least “kick” him for a week or something? Simply because he’s the president?
A Ghost to Most
@geg6:
This.
dmsilev
@schrodingers_cat: Once Politico got rid of their founders, it got a lot better.
chris
Says the man who hangs out with the publisher of the National Enquirer.
And was interviewed by Alex Jones.
And then there’s Steve Bannon…
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
If it turns out to be PG&E’s negligence, wouldn’t this be the second time their lack of maintenance killed people?
Corner Stone
@debbie: There is no path to that. There is nothing the right can not and will not twist. Either by denying the factual basis, or pulling the whataboutism effect, or bringing up that one time that leftie person said/did that thing.
Part of the power the right has, besides insane rich people willing to put their money where their ideology is, came from the fear they sparked in commercial enterprises. Remember that one mom from like Michigan or somewhere that wrote in demanding companies stop advertising on Married w Children.
Ah, here’s an old NYT blurb about it.
Anyway, it didn’t actually hurt the TV show, but that is beside the point. All these companies had to take a look around and wonder about their revenue stream. That is the kind of thing the “left” has never been able to organize, IIRC. But the frothing at the mouth fundies do it all the time and seem to be rewarded for it.
Corner Stone
I sometimes wonder if Steve Bannon has private security detail.
Villago Delenda Est
Collaborators Haberman and Thrush deserve no courtesy.
Villago Delenda Est
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: He generates clicks.
They live for clicks.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@trollhattan:
I think it can fairly added “rich, entitled idiots” as a contributor to the problem since the rich tend to be east coasters who want to live in a forrest and can’t be bothered with facts like the brush here is meant to burn every ten years and so will fight cities when they try to do brush clearance. A lot of rich people’s homes burned in Santa Rosa.
A Ghost to Most
Fuck that. Han shot first.
FlipYrWhig
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Isn’t Guy Fieri based in Santa Rosa?
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Trump and media have BOTH benefited for decades. They’re not adversaries. They’re business partners.
I agree with mistermix about the Washington Post, though. The work they did on Moore is exactly what is supposed to happen.
Good job. It came from public records, too. No “access” required.
debbie
@Kay:
Different subject, but equally good reporting without soul-sucking consequences.
mai naem mobile
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I’m on twitter and I love twittee but,really, for the country and world’s sake Twitter or any things like it needs to not exist. It just makes it too easy to rile people up based on the wrong info. That poor Tripathi (sp?l kid from Brown who became one of the initial suspects(started by Reddit,spread by Twitter) in the Boston bombing demonarrates the problem .
Achrachno
The orderly lines bit reminds me of “Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each”. Same thing, I guess.
Van Buren
@Kay: As George Costanza explained,”It’s not a lie if you believe it.” Trump clearly believes in his own version of reality.
Tenar Arha
@Kay: Of the many choices, discussions, and arguments to be made once we survive this, we should probably have one about a physical, a battery of cognitive tests, & perhaps even age maximums for men (+5-10 for women) after which they may not run for President.
There are a lot of parallels between my father’s gradual decline, especially in his last 2 or 3 years with some of the behaviors that Trump shows. Because part of the degenerative effect of aging is losing the ability to self-regulate, so you’re actually “more yourself.”
My experience with my father also makes it clear to me that the orange menace was always a vile human. I actually had a brief moment at the beginning of the primary campaign where I think I empathized, and hoped that what seemed a normal familial dilemma wouldn’t end in too much drama once Ivanka & her brothers took the metaphorical keys away. You know what I mean? I don’t think or feel that anymore, they’ve really made it clear that their whole branch is a bunch of rotten grifters.
Raoul
Jonathan Martin at the NYT has fully given up.
I reminded him that Trump *this week* called for cancelling a broadcaster’s license over things they reported that he didn’t like.
What fucking idiots we have in our press. Apparently democracy dies in broad daylight.
Achrachno
@Van Buren: But his version of reality is kinda wobbly, and often inconsistent with observed reality. Are delusional people liars, or just … delusional?
NCSteve
Nonsense. Mr. Baquet’s fair-minded fairmindedness is already paying dividends and healing the rift. Why just look at the comments on the linked story.
I mean, really, just read them.
Jesus. How in the fuck are we supposed to have a country when a quarter to a third of it’s citizens literally live in an alternate reality?
khead
Check out this chart: “How Trump voters said they view the NFL“
Tenar Arha
@BBA: Nah, I don’t think it’s that. At this point there’s not enough old conservative New York Jewish people as their readers. You’re looking at more of an “even the liberal New Republic” situation. In addition, in this case, the paper has a history going all the way back to the 1930’s or even earlier of sucking up to whoever they think is in power. The similarities between their chronicles of right wing movements all the way to the present means they’re always way late to respond in their coverage choices and editorially.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
San Bruno resulted from their operating the pipeline above spec pressure because their records didn’t show what type of pipe they installed and so presumed better pipe was in the ground. Because reaaons.
During the investigation it was revealed they had redirected safety money to executive bonuses.
Not fond of them.
Achrachno
@NCSteve: I’m starting to wonder if a lot of comments on some sites are AI bots. There’s a weird similarity.
Raven Onthill
@Tenar Arha: Just so. The New York Times has been for every damnfool war of my lifetime. Usually, long after the damage is done, they change their position.
I believe that the publisher is in fact a supporter of Trump, or at least the madness that has overtaken the Republican Party. Hence the “moderation” with regards to its response to this new fascism.
ArchTeryx
And yet when it comes to Clinton Derangement Syndrome, the Times’ columnists and editors feel free to let the freak flag fly at all times, including social media. This is just yet another example of IOKIYAR, dressed up in genteel-sounding terms.
Feathers
@Trollhattan: Not having power companies be monopolies is a good idea. In Massachusetts, towns can choose which power company to contract with. Some are even still municipal, who have the best rates and service, of course. But knowing that they can be voted out by the town council in a few years really does make a difference. My parents and sister in VA know their power will be out for at least a few days if not a week if they have a bad storm. During the hellacious winter of 2015, I lost power for a few hours once.
Gin & Tonic
@Tenar Arha:
Anybody who has lived in New York (except, apparently, for those employed by the NYT) could have told you that. He was a scumbag 30 years ago, and he’s a scumbag now.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@khead:
If that’s not proof of a cult of personality and/or new American authoritarianism/racism than I don’t know what is. It’s the fucking NFL. It’s supposedly as American as apple pie. All it took for these wastes of space to start hating on it was for some uppity darkies to be all uppity, wanting equal rights, and their messiah drawing attention to it and mocking them
Oh and fuck the keep “politics” out of football people extra triple hard. I just got treated to my father, who isn’t even that big of a football fan, claiming that because the NFL is subsidized by taxpayer money, then therefore it’s okay for the government by proxy to silence it’s critics. What’s maddening is he has said in the past he supports their right to protest, just not “in that way, in that time”.
It all started stupidly with some dumb FB post about an asshole lecturing all of us whiny losers about “civics” and how employees don’t have First Amendment protections from employers by quoting Oliver Wendell Holmes. That’s all fine and dandy, but it’s different when the government is trying to silence critics by pressuring private companies to fire them. And that’s what lead my father to say the above. It’s stupid and crazy.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Santa Rosa Fire.
For those who haven’t seen a map, here is the Santa Rosa FD current map of the fire size and evacuation areas. The orange areas are fire. There is a new mandatory evacuation area to the northeast of town. That very large fire area to the south and east is the spread of the fire called the Nuns fire. It was 3 separate fires, now it is one. 46 thousand plus acres. That’s over 72 square miles. This isn’t going to be over for a while. There are already thousands of homes gone, latest count is 31 dead, 200 known missing.
ETA I should say that quite a bit of those orange areas are already burnt out. But a lot of that is active fire as well.
Mike G
Orange Brezhnev should try reading the Constitution sometime.
I’m immediately reminded of the Nicaraguan official who was once quoted speaking of the local media, “They accused us of not supporting freedom of the press. That was a lie and we could not allow them to publish it.”
HeleninEire
Looks like Ophelia is coming ashore directly on top of Trump’s golf course in Doonbeg.
He’s been screaming about building a sea wall for years, yeah yet another fecking wall, but the country will not allow him to obstruct the gorgeous view of the Atlantic.
I haz no sads for him.
MisterForkbeard
@Ruckus: The Nuns fire is the one to worry about at the moment. The fire to the north (Tubbs) is the one that ate part of Santa Rosa already, but it’s getting under control.
We’re in Petaluma just to the south, and it’s looking like absent a disaster that city and probably Rohnert Park are going to be okay.Just so thankful my family has been spared, even if some of my friends have not.
ETA: The local Sonoma Paper has really been on top of this, especially for fire containment. Wouipd highly recommend: http://www.pressdemocrat.com
J R in WV
@Achrachno:
Ya Think? Really? Was your first clue the FBI report? Or the report by the former British intelligence officer? Or the broken English with Russian-style phrasing?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@HeleninEire: Look at the bright side, FEMA and the military will be there to aid Ireland; Puerto Rico, not so much.
Duane
The Trump administration has declared war on those that oppose them.
Bannon didn’t leave the administration.He took a job as a private contractor. Director of Propaganda.
They are serious. Fight back or die.
HeleninEire
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Oh God that made me sad. I was wondering what Ireland has that’s the equivalent of FEMA; this type of potential weather related disaster is something we’ve never seen before.
Imagine if he actually does send help? Oh holy cow.
WaterGirl
@HeleninEire: Barack Obama deserves his rainbows and Donald F. Trump deserves all the hurricanes that can possibly hit his properties.
edit: stay safe.
Kathleen
@HeleninEire: This will be Obama’s Enniscorthy.
Elizabelle
Why I subscribe to the FTF NYTimes, which I do kind of hate-read re their political coverage.
Farah Stockman’s article today. Pulitzer material. Authentic and heartbreaking. Worth its own thread, really. Lots of issues in there. Kay knows this story well, without having read this article, too.
NY Times: Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her. Then Her Job Moved to Mexico.
Days in the end of the working life of Shannon Mulcahy of Whitestown (sic), Indiana. North northeast of Indianapolis. Rexnord Manufacturing.
I see on Google Maps that an Amazon Fulfillment Center has opened, just a few miles from Shannon’s home. If she’d care to perform repetitive, timed, poorly paid work. Which is not the job she left at Rexnord. She was skilled, and conscientious.
Ruckus
@Kay:
This is very good. Your reaction to his lowlyness. He has been living in a alternate reality his entire life. Unfortunately there are others who live in that neighborhood. It is not the neighborhood that people with real lives live in. But he has also in those years degraded to being in his own neighborhood. Like your daughter’s patients, it is a world that is not understandable to those of us in the real world. My dad lived in one of those worlds for about a decade. He once told me about a cow he had. At the age he was supposed to be when he had this pet cow he lived in North Hollywood CA. There were no cows in NH CA at the time. Not even a dairy existed there. It was a dream that he didn’t know was a dream but that didn’t matter. It was his neighborhood. It wasn’t real but he didn’t know that.
drumpf lives in his own neighborhood. He thinks that everyone else lives in that same neighborhood. But they don’t, he’s in there all by himself. Of course lots of people are humoring him. They aren’t correcting him, they are encouraging him. If he lived in an old people’s home and carried on like that, he’d just be another old fart on his last legs. But that encouragement, and that power that he holds, that is very dangerous, as we all know. Because while the neighborhood is not real, the power is. We deserve and he deserves for him to be in an old folks home, taken care of, fed and watched that he doesn’t do anything dangerous to himself, to live out his last days in his own neighborhood. Not in our neighborhood slinging shit all over every square inch, like a deranged monkey.
HeleninEire
@WaterGirl: Thanks, hun. I’ll be fine. I’m 140ish miles to the north east of where it will land. That being said Ireland is small, so Dublin is looking at some pretty fierce wind and rain. Mostly worried about flying debris. May try to get an early run in and then spend the day inside.
wenchacha
How many disasters are we dealing with now? Texas, Florida, Puerto Rico, California, plus Russian interference, North Korean missiles is a partial list. Have we dealt with this much, all at once, before?
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
I check that out several times a day.
I have a good friend that lives in the south end of the Oakmont section of Santa Rosa. She left monday morning before dawn and is staying in Petaluma with a friend. She still hasn’t a clue if her home still exists. From the looks of it she may not know for a while. Currently the fire is moving slowly north/northeast into the Oakmont area but still a ways from her house. That’s from the map I linked to.
The Nuns fire was sort of my point, it has grown a lot over the last 2 days, mostly in very sparsely to no population, wilderness areas as it were. And with it’s 10% containment and the wind shifts it could get the south end of Santa Rosa as well. The Tubbs fire is still rather active but is mostly in wilderness areas now, harder to fight, but not threatening as many homes.
mai naem mobile
@wenchacha: you forgot Dolt45 the Major Disaster of 2017.
Elizabelle
@wenchacha: And “dealing with” is a relative term, because Houston seems to have been “dealt with” more seriously than Puerto Rico, where conditions are much tougher.
Russian interference is still worst, to me. We would have a science-respecting, professional government and would be more inclusive, had not the Russians been allowed free reign to destroy.
Main problem for us: we are dealing with this string of disasters without hope. They are conditions to bear and survive.
LanceThruster
I often find he most valuable information comes from knowledgeable posters in the comments/rebuttals. It’s why I like to come here. Even when coming from opposite sides, it helps my sharpen/clarify/revise my own understandings.
When those having opposing views are willing to tackle criticisms honestly and directly, it increases my respect for them. The particulars of one’s worldview should stand on their own merits in the arena of ideas. It is also a sign of respect to share those views openly and honestly, without regard for going against the prevailing view, despite how many here often respond. A ‘war of words’ can genuinely be one of the most productive forms of combat there is. Actual Nazi punching is premature if it merely brings you down to their level. Defensively…always.
As Justice Brandeis observed, answer evil speech with more and better speech.
Corner Stone
Man. Back to back, no less.
Wapiti
@trollhattan: The 2018 midterms are still a long way off, but President Trump is making it more likely by the day that Democrats can win the 24 seats needed to take back the House of Representatives, a new Cook Political Report analysis found.
I like Representative Pelosi, but if – if – the Democrats were to take back the House and the Senate, I’d be amused if they elected Hillary as the Speaker of the House, just to be clear that impeachment was on the way.
Corner Stone
@Wapiti: I like Pelosi. But any D leader who goes out of their way to state that impeachment is off the table needs to have a few thousand people outside their private residence every night.
sharl
Some reactions from non-NYT journalists:
Ex-Gawker editorial folks like Alex Pareene have seen how this sort of thing plays out:
In response to Pareene, Sarah Jaffe tweeted a particularly relevant excerpt from Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent (1988) [link], specifically the first three paragraphs from the section FLAK AND THE ENFORCERS: THE FOURTH FILTER
Ruckus
@sylvania:
Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?
And why did you still eat them?
And when did you discover how to read, tomorrow?
debbie
@Wapiti:
Quite a timeline you’ve got. Running for and winning a seat plus running for and winning as Speaker in basically the same election?
Turgidson
@randy khan: The GOP has been exploiting this rule for decades before Hair Furor came along. He has just turned it up to eleventy billion and done away with any sense of shame or obligation to tell plausible lies. But the GOP and its media enablers built the “we can say whatever the fuck we want without accountability” structure ages ago. And it’s a big reason we’re so fucked.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: The “wrong way Cole” didn’t tip you off that this is an old troll returning with a new nym?
sharl
I’m also a subscriber (online) to the Washington Post (it’s my local paper as well). I’ve been really happy with their national coverage of late, but – at least for their non-senior staff and non-superstar reporters – there are storm clouds on the horizon:
So we shall see, I guess.
WaterGirl
@debbie: Hi debbie. I have read here at BJ before that the Speaker of the House does not have to be an elected member of the house. Not sure if that’s true because I have never looked it up.
Hawes
Feels to me more like “Do not feed the trolls/Russian bots.”
WaterGirl
@sharl: That’s discouraging news. Greedy people suck, and it seems that open greed is back in season.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Oh yes it sure did. But I’m in a mood this morning and I just felt like breaking my own rule of ignoring the trolls. Besides I hadn’t asked anyone who pissed in their Cheerios in some time. It’s an oldie but still a goodie.
Corner Stone
@sharl: Bezos hates workers. On record as saying the ultimate goal is to have no employees.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
It never went out of style, if you are a member of the richitariat.
Don’t forget that once you have enough money to purchase any thing, the only big thing of any value left is people and their lives, specifically controlling them. IOW owning them. We don’t allow that legally so extra legal means must be employed, involving politicians, corporations, lawyers.
sharl
@WaterGirl: That’s the critter long ago known as Derf, I assume, followed by a plethora of other nyms. Very distinctive writing style. At least it’s not using that “little furry groupie” phrase like it used to; for whatever dumb reason that always kinda creeped me out.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I wish I could believe that you are wrong about that!
Oh, and in case it will help your mood, I will share that I did not eat cheerios this morning, but I did pee. Too much information? :-)
WaterGirl
@sharl: I remember it as Derp. :-) If it sticks around, I may have to add it to the pie filter.
Ruckus
@Corner Stone:
I wonder if at some point he will realize that with no employees, he will have nothing. OK that’s not true, he’ll still have the billions that he has now, but he won’t have more. Unless he thinks that it’s all his virtuoso performance that has made him billions up to now. In which case to maintain his lifestyle he’s going to have to buckle down. And if he doesn’t have any workers, who is going to purchase anything? Yeah the thought process of the richitariat makes me think that money really does turn brains to mush.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
@WaterGirl:
Well I’m of the opinion that there is never a limit to information. Some of it may not be necessary for any reason other than “OK, I hear you” but still, information can be informative, or fun, or even a teaching moment.
As for the pie filter, I’ll give our buddy a second chance. If for no other reason, I’m still in that mood.
debbie
@WaterGirl: @WaterGirl:
Something else I didn’t know. I’d think a few of the elected would have an issue with that, but she’s certainly been called a carpetbagger before.
Achrachno
@J R in WV: No — different thing. They’re dumping propaganda posts on Facebook and the like, but has anyone discussed seemingly responsive comments on news sites? They seem to be from people, but there’s a uniformity of approach & style. I’ve not seen much that appeared to be translated Russian, but I’ve also not seen the creative spelling I expect from our native RW types.
GregB
@wenchacha:
Don’t forget Iran, Obamacare, a growing rift with the pud in Turkey and a humanitarian crisis in Burma.
But who’s counting?
Aleta
Speaking of protest, Pence walking was (he said) a personal protest, no? He should pay the cost, not taxpayers. And if he was “joining a protest” by opposing the players’ one, do any of the rules against government employees protesting apply?
Suffragette City
@different-church-lady:
I agree that it was directed at Haberman and how she is prone to dismissing opinions by implying her articles were not read.
J R in WV
I had an interesting event recently. I got an email from the Wall Street Journal, asking me to take an online poll. Why not, right?
Well it went seriously screwy after the common age, sex, education stuff. They threw up a page full of a comment on net neutrality from FCC documents, obviously open to the public, and asked if I agreed with the comment.
Then they threw up my name and email address as attached to the comment and asked if I wrote it myself. Then they asked if a reporter could contact me about “my” comment, which was mostly generated by one of the many organizations I support by signing their petitions and donating money on rare occasion. Not that I don’t favor network neutrality, I do, strongly.
But I was pretty shocked. Online polls are
usuallyalmost always anonymous, and the information they asked about before revealing that my name was attached to this specific poll was less vanilla with my name attached. Now I’m wondering what if anything I should attempt to do.Pissed me off!! They probably already had information without me submitting anything else.
jl
I am very sorry to report that Paul Krugman seems to be ignoring the NYT advice that it is best to act like an impotent nonentity.
His blog post today is about the GOP tax cut, and titled Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies,. Easy to find on the search machine.
It;s very good, thought rather long dry and detailed.
Petorado
Waving your white flag in a threatening manner only proves that both sides do it. Succumbing to evil as peacefully as possible is the only way to prove that you are morally superior … which will be voided if anyone from your side sends out a mean tweet.
George
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: California counties tend to be more savvy about encouraging defensible space around structures and fire-safe landscaping than most other places.
Blaming “rich, entitled idiots” is fucking ignorant. Speaking as someone who lived in San Diego during the wildfires of 2003 and 2007, the fact is that when Santa Ana winds, or their equivalent, blow in the fall, any spark, anywhere can turn into a fire. There really isn’t that much dry fuel in people’s backyards. The stuff that burned was the buildings themselves. If one building in a neighborhood catches fire, and the wind is strong, sparks will blow onto the roofs and under the eaves of other houses. If flame lengths are high enough, they can pass directly from one house to the next.
If a fire under high wind conditions can jump hundreds of feet of asphalt or concrete, as they did in California this past week, there isn’t much you can do about it. Any line you try to dig could be jumped in a second.
sharl
@different-church-lady, @Suffragette City:
Jeez, I hope the new, bad NYT policy isn’t solely in response to Haberman’s defensive responses on social media. Talk about overkill! But it’s quite possible of course, and it wouldn’t be the first time NYT management made an obviously stupid decision, even though their “Haberman problem” could be far more easily dealt with on an editor/manager-to-reporter bilateral basis, perhaps by adding Editor’s Notes to her more problematic pieces, or more tightly editing her in the first place.
Of course, what with her having an apparent inside track to Twitler, NYT management may feel she is too untouchable individually, so they stupidly dropped this hammer on everyone (again, assuming she’s the primary motivation for this decision). This happens a lot in big organizations, where rather than dealing individually with a problem employee – maybe s/he is well connected or otherwise protected – the management takes an action that is easiest, most defensible on paper, and that offers the quickest short term solution, long term consequences be damned.
Whatever NYT’s reason for doing this, the people most deserving of suffering or punishment won’t likely be the ones who do either.
Now I’m looking forward to them hiring another stellar op-ed person, like Megan McArdle or, I dunno, Bret Stephen’s brother or a Breitbart alumnus.
I’ll continue to worry about all the good reporters on their staff, but I’m glad I’m no longer a subscriber.
Duane
@sharl: I said previously that the trump administration had declare war. So have many employers.The Washington Post wants a merit system to lower wages and remove employees.
The large state university I worked at went to a merit system, and that’s exactly what happened. Our union was too weak to stop it.
The merit system is an employer’s dream.
Jay
Wonkette notes that “certain” NYT personalities, respond to valid criticism on Social Media, by either “blocking” the critic, or trying to start a “flamewar”,
While engaging with, excusing or accepting Trumpenfacts.
https://wonkette.com/624241/hi-maggie-haberman-new-nyt-social-media-guidelines-did-you-read-them-maggie-haberman-did-you
“Also? Don’t punch Nate Silver, like you did when he GENTLY SUGGESTED that maybe it was a bit hypocritical of you to write about how Donald Trump harped on the non-scandal of Hillary Clinton’s emails all throughout the election, when in fact the New York Times was WORSE THAN TRUMP when it came to harping on the non-scandal of Hillary Clinton’s emails. You were a real dick that day.”