Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

A consequence of cucumbers

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

…and a burning sense of injustice to juice the soul.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Come on, man.

Fight them, without becoming them!

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

The words do not have to be perfect.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

This really is a full service blog.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Open Thread: Trump Lies About Fallen Soldiers & Actual Presidents

Open Thread: Trump Lies About Fallen Soldiers & Actual Presidents

by | 254 Comments

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There is nothing this person will not lie about. THANKS, REPUBLICANS!

… Trump was responding to a question about why he has not yet made remarks about the four special operations servicemen killed in Niger almost two weeks ago. Trump, speaking from the Rose Garden in a surprise press conference with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said he plans on contacting the families soon.

“If you look at President [Barack] Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls. A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I am able to do it,” said Trump. “They have made the ultimate sacrifice. So generally I would say that I like to call. I’m going to be calling them. I want a little time to pass. I’m going to be calling them.”…

The office staff is having a little trouble finding those phone numbers, y’see. And they tore the place up looking for the roll of stamps, but how often do letters get sent, these days?

Look, those soldiers will be just as dead during the off-season, but there’s only so many days suitable for a few rounds of golf. The man has his priorities.

… “President Trump’s claim is unequivocally wrong,” a former Obama official said in a statement to ABC News. “President Obama engaged families of the fallen and wounded warriors throughout his presidency through calls, letters, visits to Section 60 at Arlington, visits to Walter Reed, visits to Dover, and regular meetings with Gold Star Families at the White House and across the country.”

“President Bush wrote all the families of the fallen, and called and/or met privately with hundreds if not thousands,” a spokesperson to former President George W. Bush told ABC News.

An aide to President Bill Clinton also called the claim false. “He did call the families of fallen soldiers while in office,” the official told ABC News.

Alyssa Mastromonaco, former White House deputy chief of staff and a longtime scheduler for Obama, told ABC News, “It is unconscionable that a president would dare to ever portray another as unpatriotic, which is essentially what he was doing.” …

He may be squatting in the Oval Office, but Donald Trump will never be “a president”.

(Also, too, if glum-faced Mitch McConnell had the political sense of my little dog, he’ve tried to distract his “leader” before he dug that trench any deeper — by faking a heart attack, if necessary. Nobody outside the 27% believes your ‘No True Republican’ bullshit, McConnell.)

ETA:


(Trump would probably explain that he prefers soldiers who don’t get wounded and suck up money that could better be spent on tax cuts shiny new weapons.)

Reader Interactions

254Comments

  1. 1.

    dmsilev

    Also, too, if glum-faced Mitch McConnell had the political sense of my little dog, he’ve tried to distract his “leader” before he dug that trench any deeper — by faking a heart attack, if necessary

    This assumes McConnell has a heart. I’m not sure the evidence supports that.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Trump has played golf 5 of the 12 days since Dustin Wright, Jeremiah Johnson, La David Johnson & Bryan Black

    twice with Lindsey Graham, who was one of the first and the worst to politicize Benghazi. IIRC started running ads in So Caro within weeks, using it to stave off a Tea Bagger challenger

  6. 6.

    donnah

    I’ve simply got to stop asking “how much worse could this asshole Trump get?”

    Because every time he opens his stupid mouth, I get an answer.

  7. 7.

    CaseyL

    I just can’t, anymore. That pustulant excrescence sets new standards everyday for loathesome behavior.

    I’ve known some horrible people in my time. He’s worse than any of them. Vomit that walks like a man.

  8. 8.

    Corner Stone

    Should be the first question anytime SecDef Mattis or John Kelly pop up for press avail, “Sir, do you agree with Trump’s statement that former presidents did not contact or console families of fallen service members?”

  9. 9.

    Kay

    “If you look at President [Barack] Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls. A lot of them didn’t make calls.

    He’s getting worse as a person. Not really- he was probably always this horrible- but as more is revealed he’s worse and worse.

    He’s just poison. He ruins everything he goes near. I don’t know how one manages to ruin “President calling family members of deceased soldiers” but he found a way.

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    1: And it is important to remember that it was as a result of making this bereavement call at Dover that Secretary Clinton has been slandered for several years as having lied to one of the grieving parents.

    2:

  11. 11.

    dmsilev

    The Huckabee Spawn does her master’s bidding. Again.

    “The President wasn’t criticizing predecessors, but stating a fact,” Sanders said in an email to TPM.

    “When American heroes make the ultimate sacrifice, Presidents pay their respects,” she continued. “Sometimes they call, sometimes they send a letter, other times they have the opportunity to meet family members in person. This President, like his predecessors, has done each of these. Individuals claiming former presidents, such as their bosses, called each family of the fallen, are mistaken.”

    She combines the credibility of Baghdad Bob with the gravitas of Lord Haw Haw.

  12. 12.

    Kay

    I wonder if the low quality people he hires tell him these lies to soothe his injured feelings and kiss his ass, because he’s getting this crap from somewhere.

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    @Kay:

    I don’t know how one manages to ruin “President calling family members of deceased soldiers” but he found a way.

    Could get worse. Imagine Trump meeting the family and propositioning the widow.

  16. 16.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    I don’t know how one manages to ruin “President calling family members of deceased soldiers” but he found a way.

    Because he simply doesn’t want to do it. It’s hard and it scares him and it’s just not important to him. So he’s not going to and then when caught flat on it he had to drag others down so that his “small” delay would not look bad in comparison.

  19. 19.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: I don’t think anyone had to. I think Obama occupies a larger part of the wasteland of his brain than HRC. And all these people talking about how gross he is– I’d bet a mortgage payment trump watches tweety, for instance, and Morning Joe– and all the pictures of Obama conducing himself with dignity are going to drive him nuts

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dmsilev: @Kay: @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Imagine him having to deal with this, as President Bush (43) was forced to do:
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-trump-purple-heart-george-bush-perspec-20160803-story.html

    One mom and dad of a dying soldier from the Caribbean were devastated, the mom beside herself with grief. She yelled at the president, wanting to know why it was her child and not his who lay in that hospital bed. Her husband tried to calm her, and I noticed the president wasn’t in a hurry to leave — he tried offering comfort but then just stood and took it, like he expected and needed to hear the anguish, to try to soak up some of her suffering if he could.

    Later, as we rode back on Marine One to the White House, no one spoke.

    But as the helicopter took off, the president looked at me and said, “That mama sure was mad at me.” Then he turned to look out the window of the helicopter. “And I don’t blame her a bit.”

    One tear slipped out the side of his eye and down his face. He didn’t wipe it away, and we flew back to the White House.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He really does poison everything. I’m not sports fan but I know a lot of them- he managed to turn football into a horrible contentious battle. He inserts himself into everything- nothing escapes his ignorant, nasty, mean-spirited commentary.

    No one ever told him to shut the fuck up and boy, they would have done him a favor.

  38. 38.

    NorthLeft12

    Deadbeat Donald is one of those people who believes he must tear down everyone else to exalt himself. Every fucking thing awful and libelous and scurrilous that the Republicans and Deadbeat Donald has said about President Obama has been done twice as often by the miserable sack of vomit and excrement that is now [sometimes] occupying the White House.
    I’m a Canadian and I am enraged by this, I don’t think I can imagine what most American citizens are feeling.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    The thing is the families are real people, these things actually happened to them, and douchebag is up there saying this event in their lives didn’t occur. Lying to make himself look better is one thing- that’s daily- but denying someone else’s actual experience at this profoundly sad point in their lives is a whole new level of “asshole”. He doesn’t get to tell their story.

  41. 41.

    eemom

    Were Obama to accidentally step in a pile of dog shit, this creature would not be fit to lick it off his shoes.

    Seems like a good time remember this.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    @schrodingers_cat: I saw where he praised Orange the Merciless for his strategic prowess and how it enabled our superior dominance in a gloriously victorious way.
    If that’s what you mean.

  46. 46.

    randy khan

    @dmsilev:

    Also, too, if glum-faced Mitch McConnell had the political sense of my little dog, he’ve tried to distract his “leader” before he dug that trench any deeper — by faking a heart attack, if necessary

    This assumes McConnell has a heart. I’m not sure the evidence supports that.

    Well, that’s why he would have had to fake it.

  47. 47.

    clay

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump would’ve said (later) that they got along great, that she said the nicest things about what a great job he’s doing.

    But if her quotes were made public, he would’ve claimed that the grieving mother had “attacked” him. That she was “so unfair” to him, “the most unfair thing ever done to anyone”. He would’ve claimed that the Democrats got her to say those things “to play politics”.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    HOW DO YOU FORGET TO COUNT TWO BILLION DOLLARS?

    Trumps Commerce Secretary Left More Than $2 Billion Off Of His Financial Disclosure Report

    Source: uproxx

    Before Wilbur Ross was confirmed by the U.S. Senate with a vote of 72 to 27, the newly appointed commerce secretary told his committee inquirers, “I intend to be quite scrupulous about recusal and any topic where there is the slightest scintilla of doubt.” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) briefly protested the confirmation, telling his colleagues White House’s refusal to release some of Ross’ written answers to the Senate’s questionnaire was troubling. Even so, the matter was altogether forgotten in the ensuing rush of administrative scandals… until Forbes dug a little deeper into the secretary’s hidden finances.

    As it turns out, Ross “[left] more than $2 billion off of his financial disclosure report — and therefore out of the public eye” when he answered the Senate’s questionnaire and filed his paperwork in early 2017. And to make matters worse, the commerce secretary only revealed the existence of the missing assets to Forbes when the magazine asked him why the previously reported numbers didn’t match up with what “he had previously told the magazine he owned”:

  52. 52.

    Kay

    I know Presidents aren’t supposed to criticize the person who follows them but couldn’t the living Presidents make an exception for this one really bad one? Solidarity! Say it as a group.

    If they’re really concerned about the “institution” of the Presidency don’t they have to protect it at some point?

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I saw that earlier and I’ve been thinking about it. I’m not sure people realize how much bias and prejudice depends on social context. It’s like your ex-friend who moved to Idaho and slowly became more and more racist without ever realizing it.

    When Kelly was in the Army, the rule was that he was required to be bias-free and non-racist, and he conformed to that rule like a good soldier. Now he’s in a different situation, both socially and professionally, in which his subconscious tendencies towards racism are being encouraged, and that’s why he seems to be acting out of character compared to how he was in the Army. The context changed, and he changed with it.

    ETA: McMaster, also, too. Both of them.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    It’s hard to rank them because they’re all so terrible but doesn’t Ross seem particularly sleazy? He’s at the bottom of the bottom- down there with the one who left in disgrace, the chartered jets enthusiast, what’s his name.

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    If they’re really concerned about the “institution” of the Presidency don’t they have to protect it at some point?

    Another institution that has failed. They are all holding to norms but guess what?

  59. 59.

    gene108

    @dmsilev:

    I wonder if Mr. Sanders can tell, Sarah is lying to him?

    Also, why is a conservative Christian woman interjecting her maiden name into what she like a common feminazi Hillary Rodham Clinton?

  60. 60.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Good news: ‘Trump’s unpopularity has been massively underplayed in the media’

    This is from a post at DKos.

    It’s so true. If a Democrat had sunk to a 32% approval rating less than 9 months into office, the Village would be dancing on table tops.

  61. 61.

    amygdala

    I don’t want him to call. All he would do is rub salt in their wounds. A form letter with auto-signature without him every touching the thing would be better, lest he scribble “PS: Have fun!” at the bottom.

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: None of these people can fill out their paperwork properly. I’ve watched people not just lose their clearances, but lose their jobs on the spot for forgetting to list a vacation overseas on their forms. Every single one of these folks should have their clearances pulled pending a full counterintelligence investigation with both lifestyle and counterintelligence polygraph.

  65. 65.

    NorthLeft12

    @Kay: I don’t agree about Fucking Donald getting those “facts” from someone on his staff. I think he has proven often enough that no falsehood is beneath him. His whole life has been full of self serving and vile lies. Its what he is.

    Face it, a minority of your country handed the Presidency to a raving psychopath. The Dead Zone was my favourite Stephen King novel, but in that case Rep. Stillson hid the fact that he was a monster to become popular and successful. Deadbeat Donald put it all out there for everyone to see what kind of deranged and incompetent monster he was/is and still got elected. That says more about your fellow citizens than the rest of the world wants to know.

  66. 66.

    khead

    I’m old enough to remember when the death of 4 folks from a so-called slow response resulted in 33+ Congressional hearings.

  68. 68.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

    Exodus 20:1-17

    Good to know Huckabee is such a good Christian.

    Merry Christmas.

  70. 70.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Baud: I think the russian troll farm has left GOS for the winter. They’re experiencing less fake outrage these days

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @clay: I don’t know. Given that this just came out about Ross, I’m not sure anyone would have had reason to call for it. In the case of Jared, it seems that the White House Special Security Officer is unwilling to irk the President by suspending the interim clearance pending both a full and complete adjudication of the full clearance application, which should include the polygraph.

  75. 75.

    Mike J

    Björk

    Dans un post Facebook, l’artiste islandaise, détentrice du Prix d’interprétation féminine au festival de Cannes en 2000 pour son rôle dans Dancer in The Dark du réalisateur danois Lars Von Trier, sort de son silence et accuse, justement, un “réalisateur danois” de l’avoir touchée et harcelée, mais sans jamais le nommer.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodingers_cat: So you’re part of the in crowd, you’d abbreviate that as Mc3 or McM3. Basically shorthand for a general officer/flag officer is the first initial of their last name followed by the number of stars they have. So Petraeus was routinely referred to as P4. Odierno as O4, which was a bit confusing because and O4 is a major (officer level 4). But you get the idea.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    @NorthLeft12:

    Oh, I agree. It isn’t education or facts, either. You don’t need any special training at all to spot an asshole.

    They admire bad people. There’s no getting around it. They’re going to get robbed and snookered and used and abused, because they are poor judges of character. They’ll do it again.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    @Cacti:

    Well, in her defense, what could she say? “The President was defensive because he ignored the soldiers so made up a desperate lie to attack his predecessors?”

    She can’t tell the truth. It’s devastating to him.

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    current chairman of Joint Chiefs

    GEN(R) Marty Dempsey‏Verified account @ Martin_Dempsey
    POTUS 43 & 44 and first ladies cared deeply, worked tirelessly for the serving, the fallen, and their families. Not politics. Sacred Trust.

  84. 84.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @James Powell: Remember how the Village demanded – demanded – Democrats reach across the aisle in the name of “bipartisanship”.

    Yet they haven’t once held Republicans to the same standard.

    Call me cynical, but it’s as if they never meant it

  91. 91.

    gene108

    @Baud: @schrodingers_cat:

    What Trump counts on are his supporters to trust him, and there still tens of millions of them. He says Dems were just as bad, and reality takes a vacation for the faithful

  94. 94.

    jl

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: You’ll get another show in a week or two. After the GOP male geezer millionaires lock themselves, and only themselves in a back room to cut a corrupt deal and hang out a sign ‘No poors, Grilz or DemocRATS allowed’, the news actors on the TV will ask Democrats why they are not helping.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Oh, the low quality Trump Administration really stepped in it now. They’re too stupid to see a line you don’t cross.

    It must be funny to watch when it starts to dawn on them they made another error. They don’t know this themselves- they have to let if bounce off normal people and come back. No inner compass at all- they’re reading reflections.

  100. 100.

    Anne Laurie

    @Kay:

    It’s hard to rank them because they’re all so terrible but doesn’t Ross seem particularly sleazy? He’s at the bottom of the bottom- down there with the one who left in disgrace, the chartered jets enthusiast, what’s his name.

    Mnuchin seemed to be a bog-standard Wall Street grifter. Wilbur Ross has a lot of his personal fortune in Cyprus banks — the same banks where Putin and his fellow oligarchs launder their billions. Under any other president, I’d think that drawing a line between those two data points would be hardcore conspiracy theorism, but with this gang of thieves squatting in the Oval Office…

  102. 102.

    Ksmiami

    @NorthLeft12: I want every single fucstic who voted for him to be forcibly removed to rebuild Puerto Rico. They need to lay off the burgers and the fox news

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Anne Laurie: Wilbur Ross has a lot of his personal fortune in Cyprus banks — the same banks Putin and his fellow oligarchs launder their billions

    I have a feeling we’re going to be hearing a lot more about Cypriot banks in the months to come

    @Kay: 100 quatloos says either he or Fredo will tweet the situation worse before 9 am eastern

  108. 108.

    Kay

    I’m worried about a lack of participation as this goes on because it’s really awful to watch. I think a huge group of people tune out in disgust as this goes on and on and on. SO negative – just every day with this nasty lying shit.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @Corner Stone: @Adam L Silverman: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    People can pick their points at which the GOP went off the rails and embraced the devil in terms of forsaking veterans…for me, the big two will always be
    1) the Swift Boating of Kerry (complete with mother. Fucking. PURPLE HEART BAND-AIDS) and
    2) the nonchalance of Repubs when Trumpov told primary crowds that he ‘preferred [soldiers] who weren’t captured’

    Hey when you use up all your outrage on tan suits and beer summits, it doesn’t leave much left in the tank for defending genuinely offensive, un-American crap like that.

  114. 114.

    Jeffro

    Trying to picture what would have happened if Obama…or President HRC…had waited 12 days to acknowledge 4 fallen American soldiers while also playing golf five times (AT HER PRIVATE CLUB!) in that period…

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    100 quatloos says either he or Fredo will tweet the situation worse before 9 am eastern

    Oh, I know. You heard Melania. When they’re punched they punch back. They’re IN-FUCKING-CAPABLE of not expressing their every horrible, poisonous thought. It would never occur to Melania that maybe she shouldn’t respond to Donald Trump’s first wife’s ridiculous, shallow blabbering. That’s impossible. No opinion goes unexpressed.

  120. 120.

    jl

    30.6 percent increase due to Trump BS versus previously announced 7.6 percent increase due to ‘failing’ Obamacare.
    The article below has a good explanation of how the ‘Silver Loading’ strategy works.

    Pa. approves steep 2018 ACA exchange percentage increases, hopes to minimize impact

    [PA acting insurance commissioner] “Altman blamed Trump and Congress, which has not appropriated money for the payments, called cost-sharing reductions.”

    http://www.philly.com/philly/business/pa-s-aca-2018-exchange-rates-quadruple-due-to-loss-of-federal-subsidies-20171016.html

    The state governments have an incentive to aggressively publicize that the unexpected and huge increase is due to Trump action and the GOP’s inaction. Might be kept in mind, I have to go see if I can find how much of the drastic Medicaid and Medicare cuts remain in the tax slash bill The tax slash bill will be harder to stop than the GOP health care crud. Collins is already talking friendlier about than GOP health care disaster. Tying public dissatisfaction with GOP/Trump health care crud and pointing out health care hanky panky hidden in the proposed tax slash might be important when contacting Congresscritters over next couple of weeks.

  127. 127.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    LAWRENCE: And just — just to remind, for our viewers out there, your son, you told us, died in Fallujah in Iraq. This was 2004, right…

    MEDINA: Yes, sir.

    LAWRENCE: … during the height of the violence there?

    MEDINA: Yes, sir. Yes.

    Actually, my son, Brian and David Branning walked into a courtyard. And they were ambushed (INAUDIBLE). It was — I mean, it was actually a perfect setup.

    But I think, because of Brian and David’s entry to the building, it foiled them from getting everybody in the platoon, which is — the stories I heard was incredible, why they were the only two that got hit. They had bullets ricocheting off guys. And these are armor- piercing rounds, and they just don’t do that.

    But for two guys to get it out of the whole squad is a miracle.

    LAWRENCE: Do you…

    MEDINA: So…

    LAWRENCE: I don’t want to make, you know — normal, everyday Americans should not feel guilty about getting together with family and having a good time on Memorial Day and having family over for a picnic.

    But for you and for the other families here, does Memorial Day mean something different?

    MEDINA: Wow.

    Once you go through this, and once you get that knock on that door, and once you see that uniform under the silhouette and underneath the porch light, your life changes. Your whole outlook on everything, world — world events, current events, whatever — you could have had one opinion about something going on in the world, but, as soon as that happens, everything — everything in your life just changes.

    And I don’t think that anybody who hasn’t been through this here will ever understand that change in how you feel. I mean, it is something that you can’t explain and it is something that you can’t try to tell anybody. It is just — you feel the difference. And, yes, it is something that stays with you. It definitely stays with you. You know, look, when the president was here this morning, and he gave me a hug after I told him that, you know, thank you for getting bin Laden, you know, our family cried. Everybody cried.

    I mean, that was the greatest thing. And I don’t expect everybody to be able to feel — I seen the jubilation on everybody dancing in front of the White House. But to actually feel — feel it inside, you know, I think our — (INAUDIBLE) “Taps.” But they — it is totally different, and it’s totally different than what everybody else is feeling.

    LAWRENCE: Yes.

    And when you saw the president today, did he say anything to you as you were able to tell him briefly about your son?

    MEDINA: I didn’t get a chance to tell him about my son. I just — I shook his hand. And I said, “Sir, on behalf of my family, it is an honor to meet you, and we would like to thank you for getting him.”

    We heard that news, and we all broke down cried. It was just, “Thank you very much.”

    And I took the armband off my hand and gave it to him. And I said: “I have had this on since he has passed. And I don’t have the new one on me, but if you would accept this,” and he took it, put it on. And I was like, great, you know, wow. Kind of really happy, you know?

    (link)

  129. 129.

    jl

    Checked the legislative calendar.. Senate has exactly 8 weeks, less a couple of days to do their dirt. House, 7.

  132. 132.

    Jeffro

    @Cacti: I think he’s actually averaging 3-4 lies per day, so factoring that into just waking hours, it’s something like a lie every few hours.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    I must say I’m disappointed in the Bush Family. The Clinton’s were always treated like barely acceptable white trash but I thought the Bush’s had real elite clout.

    What’s the point of having elites if they don’t have any power to enforce societal norms? They’re not earning their keep, these people.

  134. 134.

    NorthLeft12

    @David Canadian Anchor Baby Koch: I believe you are dead wrong on this one.

    Remember how the Village demanded – demanded – Democrats reach across the aisle in the name of “bipartisanship”.

    I think they are still after the Dems to “work with the Republicans”……for the good of the country of course.

  137. 137.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: Dempsey was one of the best US Army generals of his generation. Strangely Marine general officers have been far better strategists than Army generals over the past 20 years or so. Given the different missions of the Marines versus the Army this is sort of an ironic reality. GEN Dempsey was one of the Army generals who was an excellent strategic thinker.

  138. 138.

    Jeffro

    @SiubhanDuinne: Remember, he’s the one who was okay with the 2004 campaign, swift boating & purple band-aids and all. Also the guy who drove us into a drummed-up war that got over 4,000 US soldiers killed and 31,000 wounded. While also bringing home huge tax cuts for his wealthy benefactors and cronies.

  140. 140.

    Kay

    @jl:

    They have to fail at tax reform. If Trump doesn’t deliver the pay-off they were promised they’ll all discover their “honor” and bail on him. It’s one thing to throw away your principles with the promise of a reward. It’s another to not even get the reward.

    He has to pay up.

  142. 142.

    jl

    @NorthLeft12: As I noted above, this summer corporate media news actors were pestering Democrats about why there not working with the GOP on a bipartisan effort to reform health care, exactly when the GOP very publicly kicked the Democrats out of the back room negotiations for the bills that were intended to come to a vote in Congress.

    And of course, some Dems were working on good bipartisan efforts, but the GOP Congressional leadership very publicly, killed those efforts with prejudice, and for no other reason than to push their back room partisan and disastrous schemes.

    I wanted to bust the screen in a few times. Sadly, many weak ass timid Democrats just sat there and whimpered.

  144. 144.

    Corner Stone

    Even before he started lying about Obama the vocabulary Trump was using to describe how difficult it is when people get killed and how tough it is for him all sounds like a 4th grade vocabulary.

  146. 146.

    Corner Stone

    Trump and McConnell are already starting the “These things take a long time, sometimes” type BS. Because if they got nothing this calendar year they are scared of what may come next.
    It’s a little odd watching them shift seamlessly from Obama and the D’s crammed the ACA down our throats immediately with no hearings or debate – to watch Mitch say it even took Tyrant Obama almost two years to get Obamacare passed.

  148. 148.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    He may be taking a squatting in the Oval Office, but Donald Trump will never be “a president”.

    There… isn’t that what you were really trying to say?

  149. 149.

    Jeffro

    @Ksmiami: Amen. That former Obama deputy chief of staff certainly didn’t hold back today (said Trumpov’s words were and I quote, “A fucking lie”) More, please.

  152. 152.

    jl

    @Kay: Need to get up a call in campaign like for health care. That is why I need to keep tabs on how much health care destruction and mayhem the GOP has sneaked into the GOP rich man’s tax slash proposal. Last I checked, a lot was still snuck in. That might be a sacrificial bit that is designed as a face saving sop for the likes of Collins, so need to point out absurdities that might be make or break for the reactionary crazies. Some Trumpsters were braying that retroactive provisions were very important. Those would really supercharge the investment incentives, you see. We are going to have to find every weak point and press those.

    So, anger over insurance premiums hikes will be in public eye over next few weeks, so general public outrage needs to be in the opposition tool kit.

  153. 153.

    Another Scott

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: It’s been 853 days since he took his golden escalator ride and dragged America’s media and much of the electorate down with him. That’s why it seems like forever.

    Or, if you don’t want to count his announcement date, you certainly have to go back to the day after the election when the press acted like Obama no longer existed, even though BHO had 75 days more in office.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  156. 156.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:
    Did you read the story that now has Ivanka knee deep in the Flynn mess?
    Christie was smart enough to know that Flynn was nothing but trouble, but Ivanka and Jared got rid of him from the transition, and in came Pence

  157. 157.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @jl: I’ll be curious to see how tightly they cling to things like eliminating the charitable giving and mortgage interest deductions. Those are poison pills, I think, as are the local tax changes. Whole lot of R congresscritters from states with income taxes.

  163. 163.

    gbbalto

    @schrodingers_cat: “BJ favorite” reminds me of “wrong way Cole”. I will be really disappointed if you are starting to troll us. I believe that you are better than that.
    ETA: You are making an unwarranted sweeping generalization.

  165. 165.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    I do believe that a twitter account is warming up for me. Piling on looks to be too much fun. Especially when the pilee deserves it in bucket loads.

  167. 167.

    KS in MA

    @Kay: Aw, the Bush family aren’t elites. They’re just white trash with money, and they happen to be from Connecticut.

  169. 169.

    Jeffro

    @Cacti: if he had to be taught once, corrected three times, and it’s still a dicey proposition, does that come out to 400%+ ?

  173. 173.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:
    We have to fight for the 20th century.
    If we can stave them off until Bobby Three Sticks brings the indictments….
    He will see just how much the GOP Congress has been covering for him.

  178. 178.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: no doubt W was empathetic. And yet, those casualty and cost numbers in #138 above…

    I’m sorry to be a pain, but Trumpov’s clueless narcissism doesn’t mean W’s hugs wipe it all away. In real terms, W actually did far greater damage to this country than Trumpov has to date, knock on wood.

  182. 182.

    jl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Matt Yglesias has a recent piece explaining how the current GOP doesn’t have the ability to make hard choices and compromises necessary to create a workable bill. So they have a mishmash that will hard to pass. Even solid blue California has quite a few red pockets where the current version of the GOP rich man tax slash scheme will hit the prosperous upper part of the Trump base hard. Kern basin, Orange County are examples.

    I love to complain and gripe, but recently Yglesias has improved his commentary and analysis greatly. I can’t find the piece where he does a careful comparison of Bush II and Trumpster tax cut proposals to show why this proposal will be harder to pass. But I did a search ‘Matt Yglesias Republican tax bill 2017’ and got half a dozen recent pieces, some of which I’ve missed.

    Here is one on why the current version is so unpopular with everyone.
    Nobody wants Donald Trump’s corporate tax cut plan
    Matthew Yglesias Sep 28, 2017
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/28/16375174/tax-cut-poll

  183. 183.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jeffro: I know next to nothing about Anthony Kennedy, but I hope he’s old school enough to be so offended by trump he doesn’t want him appointing a successor
    ETA: Which is a response to your comment in that the USSC and lower courts were one of a areas where Bush did great damage to the country. And trump is too. Which is one of the other reason Chinless and Gormless are so willing to eat trump’s shit

  185. 185.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    About Dubya? In my opinion, yes. But I’d be happy to see some confirmation from other sources. What’s that phrase? “Trust but verify.”

  187. 187.

    Omnes Ominbus

    @gbbalto: Thank you. This meme by s_c has been rubbing me the wrong way for a while, and I have been looking for a tactful way of expressing it. You did it well.

  188. 188.

    Ruckus

    @eemom:
    I hadn’t seen that. Thank You.
    The difference is that President Obama is a human being. He has flaws but he works at minimizing them.
    drumpf may biologically be human but a human being? No. He has no morality, he has no sense of other, he has not one trait that someone could give him credit for as a human being. He’s the anti human.

  189. 189.

    Mnemosyne

    @jl:

    I would love to think that ostensibly “liberal” pundits like Yglesias have had their eyes opened to the truth about the Republican Party by the disaster that is Trump, but I’m pretty sure that if we do manage to throw the bum out in 2020, Yglesias and his buddies will immediately pivot to criticizing the Democrats even harder than before.

  191. 191.

    Ksmiami

    @Jeffro: the only thing the GOP will understand is the end of a bully stick to the face no more appeasement, or politesse- those days are over and the American ppl respect ppl who fight like hell esp when it’s the rt thing to do

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: I’m not arguing about the damage he did. I initially mentioned this as an example of the President likely being unable to comport himself as well as President Bush (43) did if this type of thing should happen to him. That was it.

  193. 193.

    gbbalto

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. I really don’t think that SC is a troll and I was a little curt there. We are all pretty pissed off. I value SC’s thoughts and I just hope that we can (mostly) stop chewing on each other. We have plenty of real enemies to chew on.

  194. 194.

    jl

    @Jeffro: I agree. Dub may in many respects be a much more decent person than Trump, but (so far) he did more lasting damage as president. Thing is that could change any day with Trump, and then there really is no bottom to what Trump could do.

    Dub could change course for the better after kicked in the head repeatedly for several years on some (but by no means all) issues. Dub can function like a more less normal person. in terms of persistence and focus, on both good and awful proposals.

    Best that can be said is that Trump bumps Dub up one position that will help him stay out of the ranks of the three or four absolutely most disastrous presidents.

    But with a case as bad as Trump, need to find every point of comparison with something within 2 standard deviations or normal, in order to persuade all who can be persuaded that Trump is a special case of bad news.

  195. 195.

    jl

    @Mnemosyne: Use ’em now, can always lose ’em later if they go bad again.

    Edit: Yglesias once wrote that he saw the future of punditism, and it was celebrating the glories of Washington Consensus neoliberalism, and held up Micky Kaus (sp?) as a model. After he saw where that might lead, he may have scared himself straight.

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    @gbbalto: This.

    We don’t have to be a mutual admiration society here, but Trump and the Teabaggers are the enemy.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199.

    Steeplejack

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Fine. I think it’s prudent to be skeptical of a hagiographic story from someone who is one of the ex-president’s leading cheerleaders. The big finish with Dubya’s rueful summation and the unwiped tear sounds preposterous to me, frankly. That’s as much the point of Perino’s story as Dubya being yelled at by a bereaved mother. He bravely faced her raw, naked emotion and really felt her pain. Blargh.

  200. 200.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    John McCain is waxing lofty tonight. Brian Williams may have to excuse himself from the set if he gets too… excited.

    and not to be morbid, but McCain has aged a lot in a relatively short time

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    Mnemosyne alert!

    Bobby Troup on Perry Mason right now (MeTV). “The Case of the Jaded Joker.”

  203. 203.

    jl

    @Steeplejack: One more apparently more or less normal US citizen and gold star mom (edit: sorry, tweet was from a gold star sister) willing to go public with accurate evaluation of Trump. Contrast between Trump and Dub did some good. We can lick a salt block deciding how much goodness to impute to Dub, but a net gain.

  204. 204.

    joel hanes

    @NorthLeft12:

    I don’t think I can imagine what most American citizens are feeling

    Fear and loathing, in addition to the rage you’re experiencing.

  210. 210.

    clay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): It’s clear what Trump was up to — he has a well-established pattern of behavior. When confronted by something troublesome or inconvenient, and/or something he hasn’t thought about (but should’ve), he will:

    1) Lie that he’s already doing it.
    2) State that he’s doing it much better than anyone else. (This is why he had to make up the lie about other Presidents not writing the letters — it makes his lack of action appear better by comparison.)
    3) When/if called out on his lie, shift blame to others by claiming that “someone” told him this, or that “everyone is saying it”.

    There’s another step that hasn’t happened yet, but I would expect it tomorrow:

    4) Double down on the original lies. Since he can never admit he was wrong, he’ll have to make up more stuff to justify why he was right. Expect tweets about this tomorrow, as well as his flacks coming out to defend what he said.

    It would be nice if the media would (consistently) recognize this pattern, and have it inform their reporting.

  211. 211.

    Ruckus

    @Jeffro:
    It is true that GWB did worse for us in his 8 yrs than drumpf has done in 9 months but he still had human emotions and feelings. I even believe that it’s possible he now understands what he caused. He did at least make an effort to be human. And no, I’m not shilling for him. He is a horrible man, he did horrible things. Sometimes a president has to. All of the horrible things GWB did, did not need to be done. He will still go down in history as being among the worst presidents ever. And if given the opportunity, I’d tell him that to his face.
    But this ass, this mass of shit in a suit from the 99 cent or less store, he’s evil and horrible without having done anything. He will be remembered as the very worst president ever. The bag of shit that least exemplifies the values of the country and humanity.

  214. 214.

    amygdala

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, I caught the part of the ceremony with McCain and Joe Biden and thought the same thing. Most patients tolerate the newer chemo for glioblastoma better than the older drugs, but radiotherapy to the brain can be rough, especially in older patients.

  216. 216.

    NotMax

    Repeated and recast from earlier.

    “Yes, sir, more proof you’re the best, greater than Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln. None of them telephoned service members’ families. Not once.”

  217. 217.

    danielx

    @clay:

    You left out:

    5) He was just joking about the whole thing, that is, saying other presidents didn’t call/write/visit.

  220. 220.

    Repatriated

    @Repatriated: In fact, the reverse circumstances: trying to contact the President, rather than being called by him… as I said, tangential.

    Also slightly misremembered the line — it was “company”, not “corporation”.

  222. 222.

    efgoldman

    @NotMax:

    “Yes, sir, more proof you’re the best, greater than Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln. None of them telephoned service members’ families. Not once.”

    Maybe it’s time for Khizr and Mrs Khan to come forward again.

  226. 226.

    Sab

    @joel hanes: Also deep shame. We can bitch about Russians, but 60+million of us voted for this creature. The majority did not , but a huge minority did.

  229. 229.

    Sab

    @efgoldman: Not its not. Leave those sad lovely people alone. They poured their hearts out in public when it mattered (before the election) and many many Americans simply ignored them, to our shame.

  231. 231.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    The president just made his first public remarks about the four U.S. soldiers who were killed in Niger. It has been 12 days.

    And almost immediately turned around and used it as an opportunity to bad mouth Obama…

    What a f-in’ asshole…

  232. 232.

    Omnes Ominbus

    @Sab: Yes. They stepped up and did their bit. We shouldn’t ask for more from them. We need to have people step up at various levels – you, me, Cole, Kamala Harris, whomever…. The new leaders will bubble up.

  233. 233.

    Sab

    @Omnes Ominbus: Happy for you that you don’t, but I still feel part of the collectively “American” and we (not me) did this, and when I go out into the world beyond US borders everyone else sees this as us. Collectively we elected this monster.And “our Congress” chose not to refute him. And he still hasn’t been impeached or much repudiated in Congress.

  234. 234.

    trollhattan

    Libertarians swear we can get rid of federal enforcement agencies because harmed people can just use the courts. Well, about that.

    The head of the Environmental Protection Agency in effect declared trench warfare on environmental groups on Monday, ending a practice he dubbed “Sue & Settle” by which the EPA would often settle lawsuits brought by outside groups in an attempt to get the agency to enforce its own rules.

    “As of today with this directive and the memorandum, we’re no longer going to be involved in that practice,” Pruitt told a small group of reporters, including TPM, Monday morning at the EPA. “It’s a regulation through litigation process.”

    Pruitt painted the policy as a way that environmental groups profited off the agency during the Obama years, while those groups worked together to circumvent the normal rule-making process and create more stringent environmental regulations.

    “We should engage in rule-making that takes into consideration the voices that will be impacted across the country,” he said. “What this sue-and-settle practice has done historically has bypassed that altogether.”

    Of all the monsters in the administration Pruitt keeps popping to the top of my list. He’s really making Oklahoma proud, yeah buddy.

  236. 236.

    Daddio7

    @Sab: One.. more…. time, we voted against Hillary and the Democrats. Much more easier for the Republicans in Congress to corral Trump into doing what they want then it would have been to make Hillary do anything. Run a better candidate with a more conservative platform and you might get some of us to switch.

  237. 237.

    Amir Khalid

    @Omnes Ominbus:
    I believe there’s a distinction between blaming all Americans for letting Trump into the Oval Office — plainly unfair, because so many toiled in vain to prevent it — and (how do I put this?) the responsibility that citizens in any democracy share for whomever is elected to office.

  238. 238.

    J R in WV

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Does anyone remember Senator Ted Kennedy? He voted on the Senate floor in a wheelchair as he was dying.

    Now Senator John McCain is dying. Of course he looks older now. Hopefully he will come onto the Senate floor to screw with Yertle’s plot. If not, then not. He may go home to AZ to spend his last days, I’m Ok with that too.

  239. 239.

    Chet Murthy

    @Amir Khalid:

    the responsibility that citizens in any democracy share

    Fuck that. He’s not my fucking president and those evil mofos aren’t my fellow citizens. They can all go rot in hell. I wanna offload all the decent people in those states, but after that, for all I care, they can be put to the torch.

    Yeah, I’m bitter.

  240. 240.

    J R in WV

    @Omnes Ominbus:

    No shame here… I went into town over and over to call into Ohio, trying to get out the vote. Some days they would have preferred that I make WV calls, I didn’t think that was helpful, and stuck with calling Ohio. I couldn’t have swung, what… 15,000 more votes? but I did my best.

    If you voted for Trump, fuck you. I didn’t. We also kicked in funds to Clinton and some Congressional seats that we won. Some that we didn’t, like the guy who ran against Issa in Orange County. But he might do it next year!

    Rage, frustration, anger. . .

  242. 242.

    TenguPhule

    @Daddio7:

    One.. more…. time, we voted against Hillary and the Democrats.

    Therefore you can eat shit and die.

    You voted for the Reavers.

    Now you get to find out in what order you will be raped, killed and eaten by them.

  243. 243.

    schrodingers_cat

    @gbbalto:He is popular among certain segments of the BJ commentariat. People have written glowingly about him. I just wanted to point out that his behavior has not been exemplary since he joined the current administration. This is at least the second time he has lied for his boss.
    @Omnes Ominbus: IIRC you have been one of the people who has praised McMaster and Mattis for not being like T’s other appointees. You have been full of praise especially for McMaster. Its not meme, those were your comments.

    I was wrong for generalizing that McMaster was a favorite of BJers, not all may be but he has had fervent admirers such as yourself among the Juicers. He may have been a wonderful person in the past, right now he is acting to prop up a divisive President who lies constantly. That is not admirable in any sense of the word.

    ETA: If pointing out an uncomfortable truth makes me a troll then so be it.

  244. 244.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @schrodingers_cat: It would be wonderful if you turned out to be wrong about this, and that McMaster was successfully working behind the scenes to keep our national security set-up on an even keel, but I am more afraid that you are right than I am hopeful McMaster’s work in this administration will turn out for the best. If nothing else, Trump turns everything he touches to shit, and McMaster’s career in this administration could end up perverting his talents and abilities to dreadful ends. Soldiers are trained to obey, after all.
    One of the things Hitler used was the oaths of loyalty sworn by the regular officers of the German Army. They found themselves unable to bring themselves to break their oaths.

  248. 248.

    J R in WV

    @Daddio7:

    One.. more…. time, we voted against Hillary and the Democrats. Much more easier for the Republicans in Congress to corral Trump into doing what they want then it would have been to make Hillary do anything. Run a better candidate with a more conservative platform and you might get some of us to switch.

    This is a flat lie. The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton WON THE 2016 ELECTION. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant of the antiquated American presidential election system. The Democratic party took additional seats in both houses of congress in 2016, and Hillary won 3,000,000 more votes cast than Donald Trump.

    The Electoral College then proceeded to elect the minority candidate in a stunning display of un-American and un-democratic deception. And now we see why – the Republican Party intends to steal all the benefits of the FDR-LBJ-BHO social improvements to donate that money to the very wealthy.

    They intend to end the ACA health insurance program by executive order sabotage because they are afraid to vote it down.

    They intend to end Medicare for the retired and disabled, and to end Medicaid for the working poor.

    They intend to end Social Security if they can manage it, which may trigger violent revolution by those still able to get around enough to foment revolution.

    They intend to ruin the American social contract, the security-based safety net, even paving the roads would be optional under Republican leadership!!

    All enabled by a crooked election that enabled an appointed president who lies about the patriotism of previous presidents, lies about his own activities, and plays golf while dead soldiers come home instead of showing respect at Dover AFB, as Presidents Obama, W Bush, H W Bush, Clinton and Carter have done.

    And for supporting Trump, I call you out as a moral coward and liar as well.

  249. 249.

    Omnes Ominbus

    @schrodingers_cat: I knew McMaster years ago and have followed his career with interest. This has been my position on McMaster since the end of May.* I don’t know enough about Mattis to make a call about him. IMO Kelly is on board with Trump’s agenda.

    *Also, fervent admirer? Kiss my ass.

  253. 253.

    Omnes Ominbus

    @schrodingers_cat: We still need to hash out the anglophile =/= support for the Empire issue, but that should probably be left for another time.

    ETA: So, yeah, still friends.

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