Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Republicans do not pay their debts.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

All hail the time of the bunny!

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Innocent people do not delay justice.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Calling Bullshit on the BS Artist

Calling Bullshit on the BS Artist

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We bitch about the Beltway media a lot around here, and God knows they deserve it. But sometimes, talking heads say something worth hearing. Such was the case on AC 360 last night, when the panel was discussing Trump’s shameless, infuriating lies about how President Obama and other predecessors interacted with the families of soldiers killed in action.

In the clip below, Ryan Lizza of the New Yorker (at left in the screen grab) wonders why Trump “makes shit up” and “lies all the time.” The melon-headed butt-munch seated at right who’s failing to hide his chinlessness behind a goatee — co-panelist and former Trump flack Jason Miller — lamely tries to defend Trump’s staggering and unprecedented mendaciousness. But Lizza is having none of it, repeatedly calling Trump out for lying constantly.

Lizza is getting high-fives all over the Twitters for it, but IMO, the real hero of the clip is Tara Setmayer, who comes in at the 1:40 mark and drops the following truth bomb about why Trump is such a lying piece of shit (transcribed below the clip for those who can’t / don’t want to watch the video):

SETMAYER: Because he’s done this his entire career and never been held accountable for it. Now he’s in front of the entire world, where he has people who will actually hold him accountable for the things he says, and he does not know how to process that, because its not in his character to do so. He’s been a liar his entire life! He’s a BS artist! And when he gets backed into a corner, then his default is to lie, make something up, deflect and divert, and when people call him on it, he says “fake news.”

Exactly right, and well said, Ms. Setmayer.

Reader Interactions

416Comments

  2. 2.

    satby

    Good to see this was on CNN, but since the people who need to hear this only watch Fox, it’s just pissing in a hurricane. More members of the media and the Republican party have to step up and tell the truth.

  5. 5.

    LAO

    I’m not sure why, after months of processing Trump, hearing his constant BS and watching his administration actively hurt Americans, I find myself at the breaking point.

  10. 10.

    burnspbesq

    @LAO:

    That’s his plan, to bury us in shit on an hourly basis until we can no longer deal. Gotta keep fighting. Get a bigger shovel and a longer snorkel.

  12. 12.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Let’s not give her too much credit here. Whenever you see any conservative talking head speak out like this against the Popular Vote Loser it’s done purely to limit damage to Brand GOP. As we say it repeatedly, conservatives don’t mind all the crap the Popular Vote Loser wants to do, they just don’t like the style in which he does it. As always, he’s the id of the modern GOP. People like her helped create the man. As Cole has stated before, the man is not the cause, he’s the result…the result of water carriers like her.

    Also too, she’s an oxymoran: “Black Conservative”.

  13. 13.

    Mnemosyne

    Well, fuck. I managed to trip on the stairs going down to our parking garage and twist my knee really badly. I’m on my second round of icing and G is going to take me to urgent care as soon as that timer goes off.

    And of course it’s the knee that I had the ACL replaced on 10 years ago, so I’m terrified that I managed to tear the ACL again. Fuckity fuckity fuck fuck.

  14. 14.

    schrodingers_cat

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Sorry was not picking on you personally but was steamed about being called a troll on one of the late night threads yesterday for questioning the adoration of some on BJ about a certain general in the administration.
    I do admit that I painted the entire commentariat with that broad brush and that was wrong.

  15. 15.

    dmsilev

    Surprising precisely nobody, Trump follows his usual pattern and lies about the lies he told yesterday. TPM:

    “Now, as far as other representatives, I don’t know,” he told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade, on Kilmeade’s radio show. “You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?”

    John Kelly, Trump’s chief of staff, lost his 29-year-old son Robert Kelly in Afghanistan in 2010.

    “I don’t know what Obama’s policy was,” Trump continued. “I write letters and I also call. Now sometimes, you know, if you had a tragic event, it’s very difficult to be able to do that, but I have called, I believe, everybody, but certainly I’ll use the word virtually everybody, where, during the last nine months, something has happened to a soldier, I’ve called virtually everybody.”

    That word ‘virtually’ is doing a lot of work there, but of course it doesn’t take long before he’s back to absolutes:

    “I don’t know what Bush did. I don’t know what Obama did,” he continued. “You could find out easily what President Obama did. All you have to do is ask the military people. But I believe his policy was somewhat different than my policy. I can tell you my policy is, I’ve called every one of them.”

    Also, and if he had the guts to talk to anyone besides a conservative lick-spittle he’d be asked this, how could he yesterday definitively say that Obama and Bush (and predecessors) didn’t call families and today say that he doesn’t know what they did? OK, rhetorical question, but it’d be kind of amusing in a dark-comedy sense to watch him try to BS his way through a question like that.

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Any one who goes in front of the camera to willing defend T is not a good person.

    Not even Mike Huckabee’s lovely daughter? [Note: Commenting on her personality, not her physical appearance.] Not even Mick “Mick” Mulvaney? Not even VP Pence?

  20. 20.

    gvg

    you know, it is a good question. Even a rich person generally gets called to account on this much lying. How did Trump get this far without being shunned? His lies don’t even make sense and often cost other rich people money.
    Tentatively I think he used to not be senile and his lies made more “sense” and he wasn’t in an situation where his lack of knowledge was so obvious. it still seems odd. If I was his family, I’d have locked him up years ago.

  21. 21.

    rikyrah

    Does Religious Liberty Apply to All Religions?
    by Nancy LeTourneau October 17, 2017

    Recently Attorney General Sessions released a memo on the subject of “Federal Law Protections of Religious Liberty” in which he outlined twenty principles of religious liberty. The people who attended the Values Voter Summit last weekend hailed this as a major achievement, while many other expressed concern that it was nothing more than a license to discriminate, particularly against LGBT Americans.

    What struck me are the assumptions that everyone made about this memo. That is because the words, “religious liberty” have come to mean something very specific in our current political climate. The truth is that, when people use that term, they most often don’t mean religious liberty, but the liberty of white evangelical Christians to both practice their religion and impose it on others. For example, Sessions should consider distinctions such as this:

    But the most troubling thing that everyone has assumed is that religious liberty only applies to white evangelical Christians. I just googled a question about how many religions are practiced in this country. The top response tells me that its over 310. So do these principles of religious liberty apply to all of them? Or only to white evangelical Christians?

    Take a minute to think about how AG Sessions would handle questions about whether or not these principles he enumerated apply to Muslims, or businesses owned by Muslims (much less the 140,000 Wiccan believers in this country).

  22. 22.

    rikyrah

    Republicans Are Betting on Tax Cuts to Save Them
    by Nancy LeTourneau October 16, 2017

    Take a look at some of the quotes Sean Sullivan collected at a two-day midtown Manhattan summit of the Koch brothers’ donor network, GOP patrons, senators and strategists.

    “Hugely nervous,” said Chris Wright, an oil and gas executive from Colorado, describing the tone of the conversations he and other donors were having about tax reform. Wright, like most attendees, argued that passing a tax bill would give the party a much-needed boost.

    And if they fail?

    “I think the Republicans will pay a heavy price in the midterm elections,” he said.

    Art Pope, a major conservative donor from North Carolina, put it this way: “When you have lack of success, that may depress voter turnout for Republicans, that may depress donations for Republicans and conservatives.”

    Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) warned that Republicans could face a “Watergate-level blowout” in the midterm elections if they don’t make major legislative strides on taxes and health care, invoking the political scandal that brought down Richard Nixon’s presidency and set back the GOP considerably in subsequent elections.

    “If tax reform crashes and burns, if [on] Obamacare, nothing happens, we could face a bloodbath,” said Cruz, who spoke in a moderated discussion…

    In a panel discussion focused on tax reform, Sens. David Perdue (R-Ga.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.) warned of dire political consequences if the endeavor is not successful.

  24. 24.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Finally, somebody calls him out clearly, doesn’t back down, and doesn’t let a Trump apologist smother the point in more lies and bullshit. Yay!

  25. 25.

    rikyrah

    Quick Takes: Trump’s Obsession With Obama
    A roundup of news that caught my eye today.

    by Nancy LeTourneau October 16, 2017

    * Speaking of Trump’s predecessor, Charles Blow’s latest is titled, “Trump, Chieftain of Spite.”

    It must be cold and miserable standing in the shadow of someone greater and smarter, more loved and more admired. It must be infuriating to have risen on the wings of your derision of that person’s every decision, and even his very existence, and yet not be able to measure up — in either stratagem or efficacy — when you sit where that person once sat.

    This is the existence of Donald Trump in the wake of President Barack Obama. Trump can’t hold a candle to Obama, so he’s taking a tiki torch to Obama’s legacy. Trump can’t get his bad ideas through Congress, but he can use the power of the presidency to sabotage or even sink Obama’s signature deeds.

    In fact, if there is a defining feature of Trump as “president,” it is that he is in all ways the anti-Obama — not only on policy but also on matters of propriety and polish. While Obama was erudite, Trump is ignorant. Obama was civil, Trump is churlish. Obama was tactful, Trump is tacky.

    There is a thing present in Obama and absent from Trump that no amount of money or power can alter: a sense of elegant intellectualism and taste.

  27. 27.

    burnspbesq

    @rikyrah:

    But the most troubling thing that everyone has assumed is that religious liberty only applies to white evangelical Christians

    In this Administration, that is sure as shit the policy.

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    The Senate Republicans’ Uncertain Majority
    by Martin Longman
    October 16, 2017

    ……………………….

    So there’s considerable uncertainty at the moment about how the Senate will be divided for the rest of this term, and it’s generally bad news for the Republicans. If they want to pass a budget, if they want to enact anything partisan under the reconciliation rules (i.e. tax cuts) or other rules than allow them to get around a filibuster (i.e. appointments and nominations), some degree of chance, timing and luck will be involved.

    And this doesn’t even take into consideration the potential for individual Republican senators to simply vote against the majority in their own party.

    Under these circumstances, it seems like a bad bet to build a legislative strategy based on ramming home 50-50 votes in the Senate with the vice president as the tie-breaker. Apparently, though, failure of this type is preferable to admitting to voters and donors and the president that bipartisan solutions are a better bet.

  30. 30.

    MattF

    @Mnemosyne: Ugh. I could tell you unhappy stories about ACLs, but… it’s smarter to assume you already know all about it.

    And, about Trump– that whole “I’ve got a genius IQ” thing. I guess people have decided that it’s not even worth pointing out that it has to be false. IQ correlates with reading comprehension, vocabulary size, and short-term memory. Trump is Mr. ‘none of the above’ on all that.

  31. 31.

    SFAW

    @rikyrah:

    Meantime, CNN has an “analysis” up re: the ten Senate seats most likely to flip in 2018. Eight or nine of them are currently held by Dems, including Sherrod Brown, Tammy Baldwin, Bill Nelson, Manchin, McCaskill, Tester, Heitkamp. Only Heller and Flake make the list for the Rethugs. Let’s hope their “analysis” is as accurate as Fox’s news reporting.

  32. 32.

    Eric NNY

    @gvg: The only rich people Trump screws after years of business failures are nouveau riche rubes and foreigners who can’t seem to see through his obvious failings. Wise rich people and banks won’t touch him. Of course, there are wise rich foreigners who deal with him for money laundering purposes and who knows what else, but that’s a mutually rewarding relationship where they can’t stash their ill-gotten gains anywhere else.

  36. 36.

    burnspbesq

    @Elizabelle:

    FWIW, I’ve been telling clients for a couple of months that I don’t expect a bill to get through this year. Anything that loses enough revenue to satisfy the House Freedom Caucus can’t go through the Senate with 51 votes, and every alternative on the table faces vociferous opposition from some segment of the business community that has just as much power as the Kochs.

  37. 37.

    d58826

    @dmsilev: was about to add this. Every time you think the piece of scum has dug himself in deeper, he gets a bigger shovel and keeps digging.

    I understand Gen. Kelly serving as COS out of a sense of duty and patriotism but I don’t know how he can remain in the job after this. And if he does then the term quisling will take precedence over ‘duty honor and country’.

    https://shareblue.com/trump-uses-gen-john-kellys-dead-son-to-lie-about-president-obama/

  38. 38.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SFAW: That is conventional wisdom: the Senate map for 2018 has been known to be very bad for the Democrats for a long time. Nothing to do with the current political situation–it’s just six years after 2012, which was a good year for the Democrats, so a bunch of marginal seats got picked up in more right-leaning districts, and now those Senators are up for reelection.

    If national sentiment and turnout are on the Dems’ side, they could well outperform expectations. But there’s a headwind just from the map and the timing.

  39. 39.

    SFAW

    @MattF:

    that whole “I’ve got a genius IQ” thing

    Well, in point of fact, his IQ actually IS a genius level. That is, assuming that the statistical population he’s measured against is his peers, which is/are slime mold.

    But compared to actual humans? Not so much. Shitgibbon make a pre-operation Charlie Gordon look like a genius.

  41. 41.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @gvg:

    Well, banks gave up lending to him after a while, and the New York swells, whose approbation he so desperately craves have never taken him in as one of them. I guess that’s something. Not nearly enough, but it’s something. The thing is, though, he is rich, even if less so than he wants us all to believe, so there are always lots of toadies willing to kiss his ass for a pat on the head or something more.

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    @Matt McIrvin:

    But there’s a headwind just from the map and the timing.

    Yeah, I know. Just getting tired of seeing the “Dems in disarray” meme (in all its various forms) continue to rear its ugly head.

  43. 43.

    d58826

    @Matt McIrvin:

    If national sentiment and turnout are on the Dems’ side, they could well outperform expectations. But there’s a headwind just from the map and the timing.

    And even with national sentiment and a large Democratic turnout, Der Fuhrer won these states by such large margins that even a 20-25% uptick by the Democrats might not be enough. A +25 win for the GOP in 2014 might turn out to be only a +3 but it still is geed enough for the GOP

  44. 44.

    germy

    And Setmayer’s a republican! She used to work for Rohrabacher of all people.

    When you’ve lost the conservative talking heads…

  45. 45.

    Matt McIrvin

    @d58826: On the bright side, by the same reasoning, if the Democrats can keep any Senate losses in 2018 to a minimum, the prospects for the Senate in 2020 are much better.

    All this is countercyclic to the general rule that midterms benefit the out party and Presidential elections benefit the incumbent.

  46. 46.

    Barbara

    @dmsilev:

    “Now, as far as other representatives, I don’t know,” he told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade, on Kilmeade’s radio show. “You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?”

    His son died, something he will probably never get over and thinks about every day. It’s just surreal that none of this even dawns on Trump who has actual children. I don’t know Kelly and I still feel sorrow for his loss. Only a man without a compassionate bone in his body would try to use the death of a cabinet member’s son as grist for the political mill.

  50. 50.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Agreed. Every last one of them should be identified and deported to Russia, where they’ll be away from the brown people forever.

    Until they discover that if you scratch a Russian, you find a Tatar.

  53. 53.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @d58826: The margins in key states of WI, MI, and PA were not that great.

    The 2016 election was stolen. At the behest of a tyrannical asshole in the Kremlin.

  55. 55.

    p.a.

    @Mnemosyne: Hope everything’s ok. Was it you a while back saying you have nice legs??

    (On a 1st date quite a while back sitting at a pub bar my date hiked her dress up (slightly) and described her leg scars. Most were the result of fights, including 1knife and 1 broken bottle fight, as well as from jumping out a moving car. Turned out a coworker knew her: “Oh yeah, [she’s] nuts. Whole family is.” Need I say no 2nd date?)

  56. 56.

    LanceThruster

    He’s a shameless liar. But why is lying assessed on matter of degree? Hillary was clearly lying about running with her head down under sniper fire in Bosnia. And it wasn’t just a one-off thing.

  58. 58.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @gvg: No New York bank will finance any of his projects. It’s why he has to resort to the Russian Mob for financing.

  59. 59.

    A Ghost To Most

    Resident Donald Trump on Tuesday fired back at Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who on Monday delivered a speech slamming Trump’s brand of “half-baked nationalism.”

    Appearing on talk radio station WMAL in Washington DC, Trump was asked about the criticism McCain leveled at him this week, in which he lashed out at “half baked, spurious nationalism” that’s being “cooked up by people who had rather find scapegoats than solve problems.”

    “People have to be careful because at some point I fight back,” Trump told WMAL radio host Chris Plante. “You know, I’m being very nice. I’m being very, very nice. But at some point I fight back and it won’t be pretty.”

    rawstory

  61. 61.

    Corner Stone

    @dmsilev:

    “You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?”

    “You could find out easily what President Obama did. All you have to do is ask the military people.

    I beg, beg, BEG reporters to ask J Kelly this question. I beg them to ask SecDef Mattis this question. Call any Retd General Officer who served under Bush or Obama and ask them this question.
    If I was a praying type I would be on my knees to the FSM every morning praying some god damn lazy ass piece of shit Beltway journalism takes place and someone has the guts to ask CoS Kelly.

  62. 62.

    WaterGirl

    @LanceThruster: I was pissed about Bosnia, too, but the article you linked to isn’t at all convincing. If you are trying to peddle the idea that Hillary is a liar so Trump isn’t so bad, you are trying to sell your shit in the wrong place.

  66. 66.

    A Ghost To Most

    Police in Washington DC are responding to reports of an active shooter at Howard University, reports NBC 4 Washington.

  68. 68.

    d58826

    @Corner Stone: It was either Maddow or Hayes last night who told the story that Mattis, after retiring, spent a couple of weeks traveling the country to visit the families of the soldiers who had died under his command.

    I don’t know how Kelly can look at Trump on a daily basis w/o reaching for his throat

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    @MattF:

    I could tell you unhappy stories about ACLs, but… it’s smarter to assume you already know all about it.

    Been there, done that, still have the scars from the surgery. That’s why I’m freaked out at the possibility that I re-tore it. I do NOT want to have to deal with that all over again

  71. 71.

    nasruddin

    This is a classic Narc tactic – and a dead giveaway that Trump is one.

    Since he appears to be trapped in his NPD delusional system, he should
    be quite easy to manipulate. Managing is another thing – one has to have an
    accountability system that works – but manipulating is easy. Shouldn’t we
    be able to do more than just goad him into more BS? This is actually dangerous,
    since there is a large population of true believers that like the results.

  73. 73.

    tobie

    @Elizabelle: I really wish the *Democratic* governor and secretary of state in PA would order a full audit of the voting machines in the state before 2018. Months before the election people were worried about the security of the PA voting systems, especially in rural precincts which are almost entirely electronic without any paper trail.

  74. 74.

    Vidya Pradhan

    @rikyrah: Do you think the Army will finally leave the republican party? it seems a lot of service members and commanders are actively republican.

  76. 76.

    different-church-lady

    @WaterGirl: Just by coincidence I happened to open that link in a private browser window and I am really glad it happened that way. “Rogue Journalist” my left nostril…

  80. 80.

    Humdog

    @LAO: it is because you are a normal, rational, compassionate person. Anyone who is ok with what is happening here is the crazy person, not you!

    Who knew growing up with narcissistic parents would be a valuable life skill?

    Hug your critters and take a day’s break from the shit firehouse. It is vital that each of us find a way to rekindle hope and optimism within ourselves to keep up our fighting strength.

  82. 82.

    Mnemosyne

    @LanceThruster:

    Wow, you are getting desperate. Are they going to give Aleksi this sweet, sweet gig if you don’t produce?

    I’m not going back to MyDD! You can’t make me! I don’t need the rubles that badly!

  83. 83.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah: The Satanists have been down that road before – suddently “It’s my faith” isn’t such an appealing arguement to Evangelicals went the Satanist show up.

  84. 84.

    Corner Stone

    @Barbara: Compassion is fine. But decorum be damned. The POTUS made a flat statement of fact and is not backing off from it. He has stated that if we want to know why he said what he did then we should ask the military, ask the generals. Now that is what has to be done. There are no two ways about it or cop outs. If we let this go like we did when he stated Obama “wiretapped” him then what won’t we take.

  85. 85.

    Corner Stone

    @MattF: I aspire to one day become the perfect home made chocolate pie.
    he thought i was perfect / but then / he found the pie shop

  88. 88.

    different-church-lady

    @Corner Stone: “Here I am trying to teach you ignorant losers about the wonders of pie and all I get in return are insults!”

    I’ve never tried filtering before, not with the old tech or the new. Alain’s a genius the way he’s implemented the thing!

  90. 90.

    patrick II

    jean paul sartre

    Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.

    In addition to the success he has had with unaccountable lying, Trump is a sadist who enjoys the intimidation and discomfort receives from his interlocutors.

  92. 92.

    Corner Stone

    @p.a.:

    Turned out a coworker knew her: “Oh yeah, [she’s] nuts. Whole family is.” Need I say no 2nd date?)

    NARRATOR: And he regretted that decision the rest of his life.

  93. 93.

    different-church-lady

    @patrick II: Satre was obviously much more well spoken than I will ever be, but I do like to point out to people that trolls frequently say insane things for no better reason than it gives them joy to watch the rage the confusion causes in others.

    We’ve just never had a presidential election turn on that phenomenon before.

  96. 96.

    Peale

    @LAO: Reminds me of the day I couldn’t leave my apartment because a bull was loose on my street in Queens. I was late for work and the boss wasn’t buying it. I had to hope that it made the news, but there was no internet then. I had to wait for the papers to come out.

  97. 97.

    Corner Stone

    @A Ghost To Most:

    “People have to be careful because at some point I fight back,” Trump told WMAL radio host Chris Plante. “You know, I’m being very nice. I’m being very, very nice. But at some point I fight back and it won’t be pretty.”

    I wonder what Trump thinks he can do to McCain? And now for the next 18 months he has picked a fight with two Senators who are going to revel in sinking any legislation he tries to sell.
    What a tough guy, “But at some point I’m going to come up with a really bad nickname for him. Believe me, it won’t be a pretty one.”

  98. 98.

    cmorenc

    @Betty Cracker:

    It isn’t just that Jason Miller is a complete Trump Shill and Hack – but when any fellow panelist is talking anything that contradicts Miller’s hack-talking points, Miller often puts on a disrespectful shit-eating grin to communicate utter disdain and dismissiveness of other panelists and anything they say. It’s a body-language version of Rep Joe Wilson shouting “you lie!” during Obama’s SOTU speech, only Miller uses this tactic every single time I’ve seen him on one of CN’s talking heads panels on any issue.

  100. 100.

    different-church-lady

    CNN.com:

    BREAKING US launches investigation into deadly Niger ambush

    I wonder if they’ll still be on Trump’s ass about this five years from now.

    Heh, I crack myself up…

  104. 104.

    rikyrah

    Trump rationalizes his failures: ‘I’m not going to blame myself’
    10/17/17 08:00 AM—UPDATED 10/17/17 08:06 AM
    By Steve Benen

    One of the earliest controversies of Donald Trump’s presidency came after he authorized a mission in Yemen, which claimed the life of Navy SEAL William “Ryan” Owens. The president couldn’t have dealt with the developments in a worse way.

    Trump exploited Owens’ death, made dubious claims about the mission, and ultimately tried to avoid responsibility for the operation he personally authorized. “This was something that was, you know, just, they wanted to do,” the president said, referring to U.S. generals. “They came to see me they explained what they wanted to do, the generals … and they lost Ryan.”

    It was a quote that, under normal political conditions, might have come to define Trump’s presidency, haunting him at every turn. And while that obviously didn’t happen, the president’s response was nevertheless an early reminder that in Trump World, the buck always stops somewhere else.

  105. 105.

    sherparick

    First, the Republicans, the Republican donor classes, and military nationalists like General Mattis and Kelley, all saw/see Trump as a means to end, or at least that is how they all got ensnared. But Coach Gregg Popovich, Coach of the San Antonio Spurs and Air Force Academy Class of 1970, finally had enough: https://www.thenation.com/article/a-soulless-coward-coach-gregg-popovich-responds-to-trump/

    “Coach Pop called me up after hearing the president’s remarks explaining why he hadn’t mentioned the four US soldiers killed in an ambush in Niger. Trump said, “President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls, a lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I’m able to do it.”

    Maybe it was the bald-faced nature of this lie, maybe it was Pop’s own history in the military, but the coach clearly had to vent. He said, “I want to say something, and please just let me talk, and please make sure this is on the record.”

    Here is what he said:

    “I’ve been amazed and disappointed by so much of what this president had said, and his approach to running this country, which seems to be one of just a never ending divisiveness. But his comments today about those who have lost loved ones in times of war and his lies that previous presidents Obama and Bush never contacted their families are so beyond the pale, I almost don’t have the words.”

    At this point, Coach Pop paused, and I thought for a moment that perhaps he didn’t have the words and the conversation would end. Then he took a breath and said:

    “This man in the Oval Office is a soulless coward who thinks that he can only become large by belittling others. This has of course been a common practice of his, but to do it in this manner—and to lie about how previous presidents responded to the deaths of soldiers—is as low as it gets. We have a pathological liar in the White House, unfit intellectually, emotionally, and psychologically to hold this office, and the whole world knows it, especially those around him every day. The people who work with this president should be ashamed, because they know better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.”

    Then he said, “Bye, Dave.”

  106. 106.

    rikyrah

    After making a mess, Trump wants credit for others’ clean-up effort
    10/17/17 08:43 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Donald Trump delivered some brief remarks before the start of a cabinet meeting yesterday, and seemed especially animated about the Affordable Care Act. “Obamacare is finished. It’s dead. It’s gone,” the president said, sounding a bit like a mob boss. “It’s no longer – you shouldn’t even mention. It’s gone. There is no such thing as Obamacare anymore.”

    About a minute later, in reference to rising premiums, Trump added, “This is an Obamacare mess.”

    As a simple matter of logic, both statements can’t be true. If the ACA no longer exists, it can’t be the source of ongoing troubles in the health care sector. Either there is “such a thing” as the Affordable Care Act or there isn’t, and the president probably ought to pick one.

    But Trump’s confusion isn’t just creating contradictions. By taking a series of steps to sabotage the nation’s system – including last week’s decision to scrap cost-sharing-reduction payments – the president is directly responsible for pushing higher costs onto many American consumers. Trump nevertheless added yesterday that everything is going according to plan.

    “In my opinion, what’s happening is, as we meet – Republicans are meeting with Democrats because of what I did with the CSR, because I cut off the gravy train. If I didn’t cut the CSRs, they wouldn’t be meeting. They’d be having lunch and enjoying themselves, all right?”

    Actually, no. It’s all wrong, not all right.

    Especially when it comes to the health care debate, Trump has struggled badly to keep up with the basics of current events, so let’s give the president a hand. Sens. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Patty Murray (D-Wash.) have been meeting for a month and a half, trying to work out a bipartisan deal to extend cost-sharing-reduction payments. Their efforts are all the more important

  107. 107.

    MattF

    @Corner Stone: It’s as though… Trump hasn’t noticed that McCain has been at the center of the Republican refusal to enact Ocare repeal. You’d think Trump would recall the not-so-nice things he said about McCain during the campaign, and think, “Hmm”. But maybe not. Short-term memory is fickle– here today, gone tomorrow,

  108. 108.

    randy khan

    Miller’s entire line of response was pretty interesting – “You wanted him to give the answer you expected, and your problem was that he didn’t.” And, you know, I could see that sometimes, but the real problem, evident to anyone who saw it or read the transcript, was that Trump knew that if answered truthfully he would look bad, so he lied. And he does that constantly. Whenever the truth will make him look bad, he lies. (Of course, he lies for other reasons, too.)

  109. 109.

    Humboldtblue

    The people who work with this president should be ashamed, because they know better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.”

    Goes for every fucking person who voted for him as well. Read a comment on Deadspin earlier today from a person who said they refused to believe their grand[parents were shitty people because they voted for Trump, they were just brainwashed (like they are fucking teenagers).

    Nope, Nana and Pop Pop are fucking shitty, shitty people

  110. 110.

    Adam L Silverman

    @A Ghost To Most: When Senator McCain passes, the President’s eulogy at the state funeral that Congressional GOP majorities will insist on is going to be epic.

  111. 111.

    rikyrah

    @sherparick:

    “This man in the Oval Office is a soulless coward who thinks that he can only become large by belittling others. This has of course been a common practice of his, but to do it in this manner—and to lie about how previous presidents responded to the deaths of soldiers—is as low as it gets. We have a pathological liar in the White House, unfit intellectually, emotionally, and psychologically to hold this office, and the whole world knows it, especially those around him every day. The people who work with this president should be ashamed, because they know better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.”

    Then he said, “Bye, Dave.”

    BRAVO!!

    BRAVO!!

  112. 112.

    Mnemosyne

    @Humboldtblue:

    My favorite response from there:

    Are We Great Yet?
    @rewegreatyet
    Replying to @jeffzeleny and @allahpundit

    Just remember the only reason we are even discussing this is because Donald Trump is a terrible human being.

  114. 114.

    rikyrah

    Trump offers new ‘instructions’ to U.S. intelligence agencies
    10/17/17 10:40 AM—UPDATED 10/17/17 10:53 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Donald Trump faced a problem last week. The international nuclear agreement with Iran has proven to be effective and stabilizing, but the president, reflexively opposed to each of his predecessor’s accomplishments, had concluded he hated the Iran deal anyway.

    The dilemma, of course, was coming up with a coherent justification for putting the policy’s future at risk. For the most part, Trump stuck to demonstrably false claims, but there was another point in the president’s speech on Friday that stood out for me.

    “There are also many people who believe that Iran is dealing with North Korea. I am going to instruct our intelligence agencies to do a thorough analysis and report back their findings beyond what they have already reviewed.”

    If we accept the rhetoric – part of the prepared written remarks – at face value, Trump seemed to concede that there is no meaningful evidence that Iran is dealing with North Korea. If such proof existed, he would’ve said so, instead of referring to some vague “people” who “believe” the allegation.

    But therein lies the point: the president has apparently decided to “instruct” intelligence agencies to take another look at the claim Trump seems eager to believe, telling intel professionals to go “beyond what they have already reviewed.”

  115. 115.

    Jeffro

    I think we’ve all been able to diagnose the problem(s) with Trumpov correctly for about, oh, 18-24 months now?

    The real question is, what are you going to do about it?

  116. 116.

    Corner Stone

    @randy khan:

    And, you know, I could see that sometimes, but the real problem, evident to anyone who saw it or read the transcript, was that Trump knew that if answered truthfully he would look bad, so he lied. And he does that constantly. Whenever the truth will make him look bad, he lies. (Of course, he lies for other reasons, too.)

    I kind of get that too, for any normal human. You just can’t have a right answer to a tough spot you’re in. But most people try to soften the impact and then back down if what they said comes out wrong.
    But Trump blatantly lied about former presidents and he did so on a simply provable fact. If Trump had said some BS like, “I’ve talked to the Generals, I’ve talked to the commanders. We want to know everything first and we also want to give the families time.”
    Ok, that’s squishy but it’s something everyone is going to shrug off about Trump in the same news cycle. Now he’s going to get at least two full news cycles of getting trashed. And I just fucking hate him.

  118. 118.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @A Ghost To Most:

    But at some point I fight back and it won’t be pretty.

    Is there a more obvious tell in the world that Trump is a chickenshit wimp who cannot win that fight? ‘I will totally fight back any minute now, and then you’ll be sorry’ is a cliche.

    @rikyrah:

    And while that obviously didn’t happen

    I strongly suspect that the Yemen fiasco humiliated Trump, and still does. It would explain why he does not go through with any of his military bluster. He thought he could order the military to go do something exciting and he would look cool. Instead he found out he looks like an idiot if it fails. Now, because he’s a total, pathetic coward, he can’t bring himself to risk it again.

  120. 120.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: One of two things, if not both, most likely happened. Gen. (ret) Kelly got a letter of condolence from President Obama, President Obama conveyed condolences in person, or both. At the time that Gen, Kelly’s son was killed in action, Gen. Kelly was assigned in the Continental US. In fact he was between significant postings, in 2011 he would become Secretary of Defense Panetta’s senior military aide. I can’t find a specific description of his assignment in 2010, but my guess is he was either assigned to the Marine Corps Staff at the Pentagon or to the staff at Quantico. This would be a normal type of short term assignment for a senior 3 star who was slotted to eventually receive a 4th star. As such he would be in the National Capitol Region and this makes it plausible that President Obama would have conveyed condolences in person.

  121. 121.

    rikyrah

    Trump remains focused on Obama, calls to fallen soldiers’ families
    10/17/17 12:52 PM
    By Steve Benen

    …………………………………………….

    “You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?” Trump said in a radio interview with Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade.

    Something Rachel said on the show last night struck me as important. “If there’s one thing a country should keep faith about, it’s the thanks and respect to the family of people who gave their lives for this country… If there is anything that everybody can agree should be taken seriously and treated with solemnity and respect, it must be this.”

    I desperately wish the current president of the United States agreed. Evidently, he does not.

    I don’t know for sure what Obama did after retired Gen. John Kelly’s son died in Afghanistan. But I do know the memory of 1st Lt. Robert Michael Kelly doesn’t deserve to be treated as a partisan prop by a draft-dodging amateur whose profound insecurities overrides any sense of moral judgment he has left.

    It’s entirely possible that John Kelly, in his capacity as the White House chief of staff, privately reflected with his boss about the loss of his son seven years ago. But decency demands that Trump resist the urge to politicize the fallen for petty and political reasons.

    Trump has so many flaws, and there are so many reasons he’s ill-suited to the presidency and ill-equipped for its responsibilities, but sometimes, I simply wish he weren’t such a small man in a big office.

  125. 125.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Jeffro: The problem is not Rump. It is the ~62 million assholes who voted for him. What are we gonna do about that?

  128. 128.

    rikyrah

    How the Insurgents Want to Play the Game
    by Nancy LeTourneau October 17, 2017

    …………………………

    He revels in playing the provocateur and constantly talks about being a “street fighter” in a war. What he thinks we won’t notice is how he keeps doing all he can to ignite that war and fan the flames when they appear. That’s why, ever since I read the Bernstein piece, I’ve been thinking about what he said after Hillary Clinton gave her speech during the campaign about the alt-right. Here’s the exchange:

    On August 25, after Hillary Clinton’s alt-right speech, Yiannopoulos emailed Bannon, “I’ve never laughed so hard.”

    “Dude: we r inside her f*cking head,” Bannon wrote back.

    In other words, after doing all he could to promote the message of the alt-right into the mainstream, he thinks he won some sort of victory when Clinton exposed the connection. That is actually this guy’s political strategy. His claims about being a “populist” with an agenda that is all about economic nationalism are the front he puts up in order to play that game. We might call it the new “dog whistle.”

    When Milo Yiannopoulos’s name started showing up in the news, I pretty much ignored him. He sounded like nothing more than another Ann Coulter, who made her money by writing and saying the most outrageous things things and then claiming that her free speech rights were violated when people said they didn’t want to hear what she had to say. In case you haven’t seen it before, here is Al Franken providing the most appropriate response to that kind of nonsense.

    What used to be a way for Ann Coulter to make some money has now been employed by the insurgents in their long-term strategy to take over the Republican Party by sowing the seeds of chaos and vindictiveness in our political discourse.

    Because we are now dealing with the reality that the insurgents have been successful in putting their guy in the White House as well as in charge of federal departments like DOJ, the Department of Education, and the EPA, this has all gone beyond simply being about discourse and has begun to be implemented as policy that actually has an impact on people’s lives. So while I could ignore Coulter and Yiannopoulos, I can’t ignore Jeff Sessions as the sitting attorney general. That is the challenge we face today.

    I don’t for a minute think that Steve Bannon actually got inside Hillary Clinton’s head the way he thinks he did. She gave a thoughtful speech in which she defined the alt-right and explained their connection to Donald Trump and his candidacy. It was Bannon’s promotion of the alt-right onto the mainstream stage that played a role in making that speech necessary. But he would have successfully gotten inside her head if she had taken it all personally and lashed out vindictively—the way people like Coulter and Yiannopoulos do. That’s their approach, but has never been Clinton’s style.

  132. 132.

    Elizabelle

    @tobie: Yes. And I hope the Inquirer is on it, with lots of FOIA requests.

    No paper records, you say? That stinks.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    Trump (on McCain’s ‘half-baked’ comment): “At some point, I’ll fight back.”

    McCain: “I’ve faced tougher adversaries.”

    Jesus, what a p-word this clown is. “At some point”?!? Looooooooser…

  134. 134.

    Mnemosyne

    Doctor says it’s probably just a nasty sprain, not an ACL tear (which is what I was worried about). Rest Ice Compression Elevation unless it gets worse.

  137. 137.

    Jeffro

    @A Ghost To Most: Hmm…here are the things I do…

    – vent here, then
    – donate to a candidate
    – volunteer my time (already doing door-knocking in NoVA)
    – write the occasional op-ed or letter to the editor (ending gerrymandering, ending big-donor ‘Dark Money’ donations, etc)
    – write to my MoCs
    – write to pundits and talking heads, encouraging them to be more shrill/press even harder/join the Dems
    – vent here some more
    – post factual pieces (on taxes, on the ACA, on whatever) on FB and Twitter

    lather, rinse, repeat…for me venting is helpful but there needs to be at least some ‘doing’ or else I’m changing nothing…

  138. 138.

    Peale

    @different-church-lady: I’m going to laugh, well, laugh isn’t the right word for it. Furrow my brow with concern if it turns out that the reason the four were attacked is because Chad opted not to participate in operations in Nigeria given the way Trump insultingly added them to the list of terrorist travel ban countries.

  143. 143.

    Corner Stone

    @Peale:

    because Chad opted not to participate in operations in Nigeria

    I don’t know who this Chad guy is but he sounds like a real fratboy dickhead.

  146. 146.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Jeffro: Keep on keeping on. I am not optimistic that working within the system will do the trick, but I am hoping.

  147. 147.

    LanceThruster

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I knew that would be a common response. Attack the messenger, specifically ignore the content. It’s why the Dems are still floundering. Perez is having a terrible time fundraising, even with the spector of more Trump. People are generally unswayed by, “Sure we suck, but they’re worse!”

  148. 148.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Humboldtblue: I know. I just followed it an embedded it in a comment for you so everyone could see it without having to click across. Just another example of how we here at Balloon Juice are a full service blog.

  149. 149.

    Humboldtblue

    Oh, Governor Jerry Brown vetoed the bill that would have required a presidential candidate to release tax returns in order to be on the ticket.

  151. 151.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Sab: Pie-ing a front pager? I’m pretty sure that LanceThruster is one of Doug’s sockpuppets. He has a long history as a shit-stirrer.

  153. 153.

    Humboldtblue

    @A Ghost To Most:

    In his words

    “While I recognize the political attractiveness – even the merits – of getting President Trump’s tax returns, I worry about the political perils of individual states seeking to regulate presidential elections in this manner,” Brown wrote in a veto message. “First, it may not be constitutional. Second, it sets a ‘slippery slope’ precedent. Today we require tax returns, but what would be next? Five years of health records? A certified birth certificate? High school report cards? And will these requirements vary depending on which political party is in power?”

  154. 154.

    MisterForkbeard

    @different-church-lady: Wow. That link is so fucking delusional I don’t even know where to start. They’re STILL complaining about the “17 intelligence agency” thing? Or yelling at Hillary about literally everything? Or insisting that the Podesta/DNC leaks showed “undeniable wrongdoing” without actually being able to name and describe any of the wrongdoing that it supposedly exposed?

    That writer needs to be fired, tarred and feather, then forced to watch an actual documentary on Hillary Clinton instead of the hitjobs he’s promoting. What a nutbag.

  155. 155.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @LanceThruster:
    She’s not the president and never will be. I also don’t think she’d tell any lies that disrespect fallen service members and their families. She would never show such fundamental disrespect.

    I honestly don’t give a shit if she did lie about that. At least I wouldn’t have to worry about a civilization ending nuclear exchange almost every day now.

  158. 158.

    LanceThruster

    @WaterGirl:

    The Bosnia ref is just to establish that she’s also a liar who lies even when unnecessary. I think the lies in the link are quite well established as well. I’m not trying to make out that Trump is not horrible, but as Hillary’s Pied Piper, she is the reason we have Cheetolini.

  161. 161.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Humboldtblue: I like Jerry, but that sounds like something an R would say. The more info we have on a candidate, the better the choice we can make.

  162. 162.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Frankensteinbeck: Good points. 2nd one especially persuasive.@Peale: Chad’s opting out beocause of T’s travel ban was suggested couple of days ago at democraticunderground.

    Just a comment-that site was ‘my’ blog until after Obama’s inauguration. They immediately and viciously turned agaist him. Then I discovered b- j and its sanity. Been my ‘go to’ blog ever since.

  165. 165.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MisterForkbeard: That writer works for Sinclair media in his day job as head of Circa, which is basically a propaganda and disinformation platform online that Sinclair resurrected to support the President and smear his opponents. For some reason The Hill brought him on shortly thereafter. So he’s got two day jobs and he uses the second one at The Hill to mainstream the crap he’s putting out for Sinclair in his first one at Circa.

  166. 166.

    p.a.

    We should keep up the pressure on everyone associated with the fucker, but especially don’t give ’em a pass if the ‘we didn’t realize’ meme keeps up. 3 fucking words: Central Park Five. He is who we thought he was. No excuses.

  167. 167.

    SatanicPanic

    @A Ghost To Most: I think he makes a good point about the birth certificate. The thing is, we could do this and it wouldn’t matter- a Democrat would always win. Now imagine some swing state or blue state that happens to elect a nutjob governor or legislature. I don’t want to give them ideas.

  168. 168.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @LanceThruster:
    No, it’s because of weak-minded people like you as well as genuine American fascists that went whole hog in their support of him. That and voter suppression and foreign interference.

  169. 169.

    Humboldtblue

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Jerry is as close you can get to a Republican in the Dems house. I think he made the correct choice, however.

    It’s a poll tax. I think the fewer hurdles to a candidacy the better and I think that’s at the root of Jerry’s reasoning.

  171. 171.

    No Drought No More

    “Now he’s in front of the entire world, where he has people who will actually hold him accountable for the things he says..”.

    Not from anyone in the republican party, he doesn’t.

    To be a registered republican in the United States in 2017 are tantamount to being a known associate of racketeers.

  172. 172.

    jl

    @SatanicPanic: Jerry Brown, despite his reputation as a wild-ass, tends to be cautious and measures twice before he cuts, so I am not surprised he vetoed the first attempt that this kind of legislation. I’ve read that there is a real Constitutional question. If the requirement to provide tax returns is interpreted as a state imposing an additional qualification for a national Constitutional office, then it will get shot down in court.

  173. 173.

    Corner Stone

    I love how Trump’s excuse for sabotaging Obamacare is that for profit companies were making money.

  175. 175.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    The sole question left is whether Kelly will deflect/prevaricate when asked directly whether Obama reached out. This could get sticky, given Trump’s willingness to use Kelly and whomever as human shields against incoming fire.

  176. 176.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @LanceThruster:
    Oh wow, I guess you got her there. I mean, the victim’s sister couldn’t be lying because she desperately wants Clinton to be at fault for her brother’s death in Benghazi, no siree.

    And once again:

    At least I wouldn’t have to worry about a civilization ending nuclear exchange almost every day now.

  178. 178.

    germy

    We need a new president, vice-president, Congress and 5 Supreme Court justices.If you're gonna wish, might as well go for broke.They did.— Marsha Warfield (@MarshaWarfield) October 16, 2017

  180. 180.

    trollhattan

    @Humboldtblue:
    Jerry 2.0 is quite cautious re. legislating around the constitution and given his Obama-level knowledge in the area I’m generally willing to accept his decisions on such matters. He sure had a mountain of bills to plow through, jeez those Legs were busy boys and girls this year.

  182. 182.

    different-church-lady

    @germy: Which we’d have now IF ONLY OBAMA HAD PUT THE BANKSTERS IN JAIL!!1!

    (don’t know how to to the fixed-width font trick, sorry…)

  183. 183.

    different-church-lady

    Hmmm… seems the pie filter might be cookie-based? I’m now on a different rig and the appreciation of pie has just dried up.

  186. 186.

    Boatboy_srq

    @gvg: There was always some new rube to grift.

    You’ll note that it’s his (presumed) wealth and not his person that’s welcome on Wall St.

  187. 187.

    jl

    I hate to have to say anything that extenuates anything Trump does or says. But i actually do not think Trump set out to tell an intentional lie when he insulted and said untrue things about past presidents’ responses to military casualties. I think Trump was riffing and BSing because he was caught being negligent in performing that part of his job. Look at the BS that preceded the slander. Trumped BS’d that he had, or was going to, or was just in the process of, writing letters, which did, or were at the moment, or definitely would or might be going out sometime over the weekend or had already been sent, or somewhen thereabouts would or did happen. For sure! The slander was such an obvious whopper, and since it was a bipartisan slander, the press feels they can jump on it. For once, gotcha journalism is the exactly the right way to go. And when challenged, Trump has to BS and riff his way out of the jam.

    I think Lizza and Setmayer, got it exactly right: a disturbing (I think ‘alarming, egregious, so absolutely unprecedented as to indicate unique unfitness and depravity” would be better) pattern of uttering untrue statements. Some are lies, some are extemporaneous BS to cover up his ignorance and negligence at performing his duties. Some are due to stupidity or mental decline. But, so much untruth. It’s a daily thing. Unrelenting.

  188. 188.

    Elie

    Just read article in Times that the so called “hero” Kelly was caught loosing ICE agents on immigrants with little restraint while he was head of Homeland Security. Then he takes this second job trying to save his boss and this administration. He is a fake piece of shit. I have always been most suspicious of him but I find it hard to believe that any of the others would have interest to be in this administration unless they were kindred spirits.

  191. 191.

    Humboldtblue

    @trollhattan:

    I wholeheartedly agree, I’ll take his legal and parliamentary knowledge any day.

    He has dealt with a mountain of bills for eight years and his veto rate has remained pretty regular, 12-15% get vetoed each year. This year it was about 100 out of 800 or so that reached his desk. He’s been an excellent administrator and will be sorely missed and it’s yet another black mark against the dipshittery of term limits.

  193. 193.

    SatanicPanic

    @jl: I think it’s a good approach. Jerry’s a nice balance to the left flank- I support what the left is trying to do, but someone needs to ask some hard questions every now and then.

  195. 195.

    gratuitous

    Allow me to sum up all the posts and “argument” from a certain person in this thread: “What about, what about, what about, what about?”

    President Trump is 71 years old, and has not learned how to talk so that people understand him, or, he has not learned how to talk like a functioning human being. If you’ve been suckered by him, that’s on you, not on anyone else or what they may have said in years past. Trump hasn’t spoken about the military dead because he doesn’t give a flying fuck about them. Trump hasn’t expressed his condolences to their survivors for the same reason. He’s far more interested in playing golf every weekend, and that’s what he spends his time doing. If that reality makes you squawk “what about, what about, what about” like a defective cuckoo clock, I’m content with letting that be your little problem. If I happen to think you’re a Class A asshole in the bargain, well, if those brogans are snug, wear ’em.

  198. 198.

    different-church-lady

    @LanceThruster:

    think the lies in the link are quite well established as well.

    So well established, in fact, that you had to rely on a “Rogue Journalist” for a citation.

  199. 199.

    Barbara

    @gratuitous:

    Trump hasn’t spoken about the military dead because he doesn’t give a flying fuck about them. Trump hasn’t expressed his condolences to their survivors for the same reason.

    That was my husband’s assessment. He doesn’t give a shit and he is obsessed with Obama. Every day, another example of how narcissism expresses itself in the human species.

  200. 200.

    jl

    @SatanicPanic: Brown has a history of vetoing the first version of bills that get to his desk if he thinks they could be improved. If the Constitutional issue with adding filing requirements is a serious one, he may shoot down the idea for good, though.

    Like Obama, Brown prides himself on being somewhat of a legal scholar, with some special Jesuit know-it-all juice added to the mix.

  203. 203.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @different-church-lady:
    Because they’re an asshole troll. It’s far easier to talk shit on the internet than build something in the real world.

    That’s why Lance talks shit about Perez and Democratic fundraising being bad (without evidence of course) neglecting to mention of course how none of the other political alternatives are better prepared to challenge the GOP and Trump. Stein and the Greens? They’re impotent jokes who pose no serious threat and likely never will.

  204. 204.

    different-church-lady

    @Elie:

    Then he takes this second job trying to save his boss and this administration the planet from nuclear winter.

    Not that I’m saying he’s noble or anything, but my gut still tells me that’s the real reason he’s there.

  209. 209.

    jl

    And HRC whataboutism can go to hell. Everyone missremembers, falls into Brian Williams fugue states when they embellish their memories. or get carried away in relating a memory, or don’t think through (in the moment when they are telling the yarn) what their impressions were at the time and what they learned about what really happened later. HRC, Romney, McCain, B_S_.. Obama, Big Dawg, and Dub. You can find something that they said that is BS of some kind or another.

    But none of them do it every damned time they open their mouths. So, people can go to hell with that crap.

  211. 211.

    Barbara

    @schrodingers_cat: Disbelief that anyone with an objectively distinguished career serving with and among other adults could possibly tolerate serving in Trump’s administration in such daily, close proximity to what appears to be a chaotic White House staff?

  214. 214.

    jl

    @MattF: We need to research proper vocabulary to use to describe what Trump does. Probably a new technical nomenclature needs to be developed. So many fine shades of horribleness need to be distinguished.

    I don’t have any ideas for how to describe Trump’s extemporaneous riffing of obvious slanders to cover up his negligence.

    I do suggest addressing him as “your very grant egregiosity’.

  215. 215.

    SatanicPanic

    @Calouste: I’m not a huge fan of the guy but if he gets the nomination in 2020 I am fully on board with Wilmer and he will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Having to write off all of California’s electoral votes would be a seriously stupid own goal.

  218. 218.

    WaterGirl

    @LanceThruster:

    I think the lies in the link are quite well established as well.

    I’m glad you think so. I thought at least 4, if not all 5, were totally bullshit. By the way,you might want to look up this thing called russian interference in the election. It might broaden your horizons.

    Don’t bother replying, you are officially in the pie filter. (well, you will be about 10 seconds after I press post)

  220. 220.

    Boatboy_srq

    @rikyrah: There is hopefully a “Watergate-level” something in the works, but I would prefer it be charges filed, perps apprehended, and multiple resignations/arrests among the Nazi Death Eaters.

  222. 222.

    jl

    Not the best policy, but not disastrous. Staving off disaster is OK, until next election. I’m guessing Senators GOPers know they have to worry about elections more than House GOPers do. Need slap Trump’s name on so he can sign without humiliation of even implicitly going back on his empty and infantile brag that Obamacare is dead.

    Alice Ollstein
    @AliceOllstein
    BREAKING: Senators have deal to restore CSR $ for 2yrs in exchange for more “state flexibility.” Leaves essential health benefits in place.
    https://twitter.com/AliceOllstein/status/920350503149678593

  223. 223.

    Kay

    I heard public radio in the car this afternoon and they called it a “falsehood”.

    They also had a clip of Trump from FOX. The creepy FOX news drones all say “Obama” now, including the President?

    Trump has horrible manners. He was poorly raised. He treats people terribly. It would kill him to use “former President Obama”? He’s too freaking ungenerous and mean-spirited to do something as painless as that?

    Who raised these people and are they ashamed they did such a bad job?

  226. 226.

    Corner Stone

    Malcolm Nance‏Verified account @MalcolmNance

    Malcolm Nance Retweeted Malcolm Nance

    #KellyMustResign. RT if you agree -for his own honor and that of the nation.

  227. 227.

    jl

    @Major Major Major Major: Trump didn’t know that being responsible for something could be so complex. Not sure Trump understands it yet, so don’t hold your breath for him to inform us of this astounding new fact.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    Trump was caught in a lie so he said on Fox he “doesn’t know” what Obama did.

    This is Asshole 101. Open your big mouth, lie, and when you get caught shift the burden to the other person. It was Trump’s birther campaign.

    Probably been doing it his whole life. Just such low quality. Seriously. 7th graders do this. He’s been around 70 years.

  231. 231.

    ThresherK

    @dmsilev: That…absolute cipher Brian Kilmeade has his own radio show?

    On Fox News he’s the prepackaged stale ground pepper in the plastic-wrapped utensil + napkin handout: Nobody cares he’s there and if you stopped putting him in it nobody would miss him.

  232. 232.

    Mnemosyne

    @LanceThruster:

    I’m not trying to make out that Trump is not horrible, but as Hillary’s Pied Piper, she is the reason we have Cheetolini.

    Kids, remember to link to this comment the next time someone asks you, “What do you mean by ‘blaming the victim’?”

    Trump and Russia teamed up to deny Hillary the Electoral College and Ivan Ivanovich’s only defense is, See! She forced us to do it by telling a lie 10 years ago!

  236. 236.

    SFAW

    @SatanicPanic:

    Trump isn’t getting our electoral votes.

    Well, of course not, what with all those illegal Messicans voting illegally in the last election in which they were illegal. Something like 60,000,000 illegal votes for Hitlary, right?

    Thank FSM that LimpThrust-oops! is here to tell us about how we dodged a bullet (but not by keeping our heads down, of course) when Hitlary was found out regarding her murdering — MURDER, I TELLS YA!!! — those four Americans in Benghaziiii!!!

    I don’t pie anyone, but at times the temptation is large.

  238. 238.

    A Ghost To Most

    A federal judge on Tuesday largely blocked the Trump administration from implementing the latest version of the president’s controversial travel ban, setting up yet another legal showdown on the extent of the executive branch’s powers when it comes to setting immigration policy.

    The decision from Judge Derrick K. Watson in Hawaii is sure to be appealed, but for now, it means that the administration cannot restrict the entry of travelers from six of the eight countries that officials said were either unable or unwilling to provide information the U.S. wanted to vet their citizens.

    WaPo

  240. 240.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl:

    I do suggest addressing him as “your very grant egregiosity’

    .”The Great Equivocator” or “Your most serene Petulance”

  242. 242.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    Doctor says it’s probably just a nasty sprain, not an ACL tear (which is what I was worried about). Rest Ice Compression Elevation unless it gets worse.

    Thanks for the good news. One hopes that the doctor also told G to wait on you hand-and-foot until you are completely recovered. The only thing better would be if the doc also knew LMM, and said he’d ask LMM to visit you.

  247. 247.

    trollhattan

    @ThresherK:

    On Fox News he’s the prepackaged stale ground pepper in the plastic-wrapped utensil + napkin handout: Nobody cares he’s there and if you stopped putting him in it nobody would miss him.

    Stealing this! Colbert calls him “Not-Steve Doocy.”

    ETA In my lifetime I’m not sure my parents ever refilled the dinner table pepper shaker. Midwest German Lutherans, donchano.

  248. 248.

    different-church-lady

    I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m really enjoying this whole “Someone somewhere said HRC was lying, so clearly she’s just as bad as Trump” line of argument.

  250. 250.

    Mnemosyne

    @Elie:

    I was saying yesterday that people don’t realize how socially-based racism can be. When Kelly was in the Army with very strict rules about racism, he stuck to those rules.

    But once he left that rule-based environment and went someplace where his subconscious bias was being constantly reinforced, his inner KKK wizard came popping out.

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I think most people here have written Kelly and McMaster off as far as protecting us from anything other than maybe outright nuclear war. I don’t think anyone has said much to defend them in a few weeks.

    I know why people want to think that they’ll tackle Trump if he tries to order a nuke to be fired. The alternative is the stuff of nightmares, especially for those of us within reach of China’s nukes. ?

  251. 251.

    jl

    @A Ghost To Most: I heard part of one of those interviews on the radio with lost and anguished Trump voters right after Trump returned from Puerto Rico. One lady said, “Well, at least now he’s back where he should be, back at home in OUR country.” and a few other digs that indicated she had no clue that Puerto Rico was US territory and the people US citizens.

  252. 252.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @trollhattan:

    The sole question left is whether Kelly will deflect/prevaricate when asked directly whether Obama reached out.

    He will deflect. I am dead certain of it. Not because he wants to lie, but because of a warped but understandable belief that it is not his place to publicly call out his boss as a liar. He will say what he is told to say, may or may not refuse if it is a direct lie, and otherwise will keep his mouth shut.

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Trump is an absolute coward, and I would put the odds at greater than 50% he will never veto anything in his entire presidency. He can’t face the confrontation.

  253. 253.

    Vheidi

    @Van Buren: we had the news helicopters late morning/early afternoon.
    Hope the cow/bull gets a reprieve. I know there are chicken slaughterhouses over there near F train, didn’t realize beef as well.

  257. 257.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    Wait, our man in Moscow actually thinks that Benghazi was a real scandal? Even the House Republicans have stopped pretending to think that.

    You’ve been around long enough to know that:
    1) Rethuglicans blame the previous Demon-rat admin for anything bad, until the Rethug admin is voted out
    2) then they blame the incoming Dem administration from Day One
    3) plus whine that the Dems are unfairly blaming the previous admin for the shitshow the Dems inherited.

    So, Benghazi will be around AT LEAST until Hillary stops making public statements, and probably five years beyond that

  258. 258.

    trollhattan

    @Mnemosyne:
    I’ve maintained that if we’re so desperate for protection from Trump we’re relying on those around him to deliberately ignore a direct order–in violation of their oath, jerb description, whatever–we’re dreaming if we think somebody Trump himself picked is going to be that person.

    I want somebody from the UN armed with a giant baseball bat in there. (Cricket bat?)

  261. 261.

    Mnemosyne

    @SFAW:

    Poor G still has PTSD from when I tore my ACL 10 years ago. I need to be very careful not to even say the words “Chex Mix” lest I trigger a “Niagara Falls”-like fugue state. ?

  262. 262.

    Pluky

    @gvg: ah, but he was called on it. He’s been a pariah in NYC social and financial circles for decades for good reason.

  264. 264.

    Fred

    Trump’s statement was literally factual. He said most presidents didn’t call families of fallen service members. Did Lincoln ever pick up the phone? How about Madison? McKinley?
    So it’s true the majority of past presidents never bothered to pick up a telephone to call Gold Star families.
    Yeah it’s a bit of a sick joke but it’s come down to laugh or scream. And I won’t be surprised if the shit stain doesn’t try to claim it as a rationalization. He really is that low.

  266. 266.

    Mnemosyne

    @different-church-lady:

    I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m really enjoying this whole “Someone somewhere said HRC was lying, so clearly she’s just as bad as Trump” line of argument.

    Oh, it’s even better than that — the argument is actually Hillary told a minor lie over a decade ago, so it’s no big deal that Trump lies about everything.

    Clinton Rules + White Male Entitlement Curve = where we are today

  267. 267.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    Poor G still has PTSD from when I tore my ACL 10 years ago. I need to be very careful not to even say the words “Chex Mix” lest I trigger a “Niagara Falls”-like fugue state.

    What about if one of us says it to him?

  268. 268.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Humboldtblue:
    I’m relying on Trump’s superhuman, unprecedented levels of chickenshit cowardice. I was expecting him to be lazy and incompetent, and for that to limit the damage he could do. I did not dream of just how totally, pathetically incapable of confrontation or taking risks he is. Yes, I knew he was a chickenshit ‘speak loudly and carry a tiny stick’ guy, but he has gone way beyond that. He backs down from everything that might get him the slightest in-person push back. As long as he believes someone might say to his face ‘What the fuck are you doing, Trump?!’ he will not have the guts to look twice at the nuclear button.

  270. 270.

    Corner Stone

    I feel like they just keep running the same BS story but changing the names. First it was Jar-Jar and Ivanka that were going to moderate Trump and curate his decision making. Well, we saw where that went even though they keep publishing the story about how hard they tried, over and over.
    More recently it is Kelly and McMaster that are going to bring order to the WH and curate Trump’s decision making for starting WWIII. Can’t wait for the NYT to publish a story about how hard they tried to stop the nuclear launch.

  271. 271.

    Mnemosyne

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I was very popular at Christmas last year because I brought a chocolate banana cream pie from Republic of Pie to my aunt’s house. Everyone loved it, and it was basically just a chocolate cream pie with bananas sliced into it.

  273. 273.

    Gravenstone

    @Mnemosyne: Hopefully it’s just a bad sprain. My sister had her ACL replaced due to a basketball injury. Then about 10 years later she managed to blow the repaired ligament up simply by making a sharp U-turn walking down a hallway. Fortunately, repair surgery and replacement options have advanced quite a bit in the intervening years.

  274. 274.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    Trump lies about everything.

    Bullshit. There are some things he hasn’t lied about. Quantum mechanics, whether he can speak Aramaic, whether Sir Garry Sobers was a great cricketer, etc.

    Of course, if he’s ever asked about any of those things, he’ll lie.

  275. 275.

    Amir Khalid

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Quite aside from any bad blood between John McCain and Trump, Cindy MCain would be most unwise to invite Trump to deliver an eulogy at John’s funeral. The only constant things about Trump’s public utterances are narcissism, dissembling, and cringeworthiness.

  276. 276.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @noncarborundum:

    Now please explain how you typed angle bracket code angle bracket stuff angle bracket close code angle bracket using actual angle brackets but having it appear in the normal font.

  279. 279.

    Patricia Kayden

    @schrodingers_cat: I’ve had folks on the left try to argue to me that I should be grateful that Trump has military folks surrounding him because he could have worse people in his entourage. I don’t quite understand that argument.

  281. 281.

    Mnemosyne

    @Gravenstone:

    There’s always that risk after an ACL repair. Apparently it’s a little more robust if they give you a donor ligament rather than trying to take one from your own tissue, and that’s what I have.

  283. 283.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amir Khalid:

    Quite aside from any bad blood between John McCain and Trump, Cindy MCain would be most unwise to invite Trump to deliver an eulogy at John’s funeral.

    Meghan McCain detests Trump. I think she’d boycott her own father’s funeral if 45 planned to show up.

  289. 289.

    Corner Stone

    Speaking of Profiles in Courage, I am so very happy that Rexy T is still refusing to deny that he called Trump a moron. It’s like he breathes a little bit of life back into his garbage time darkhearted soul every time the news mentions it.

  292. 292.

    ThresherK

    @trollhattan: On SNL, I also find Bobby Moynihan’s version of Kilmeade vastly more entertaining and memorable than the real thing, and not any more inaccurate.

  293. 293.

    noncarborundum

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    HTML entities. For example, to get </code> I typed in

    &lt;/code&gt;

    That, and some judicious editing when I invariably get it wrong the first time.

  294. 294.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl:

    Serene?

    Trump does lie so effortlessly, does he not?

    I think lying is so compulsive for that sack of shit in a bad suite that he’s incapable telling his own name correctly.

  295. 295.

    A Ghost To Most

    Joshua Boyle’s life had descended into a surreal, five-year nightmare — but one thing was still beyond belief.

    Boyle and his pregnant wife had been kidnapped by affiliates of the Taliban on a trip to Afghanistan in 2012. The captors had later killed his infant daughter, he said, and raped his wife, who described the ordeal as a “Kafka-esque nightmare.”

    Sometime late last year, the couple were about to make a video to show their loved ones that they were, in fact, still alive.

    But surely one captor was lying, Boyle believed, when he said that Donald Trump had been elected leader of the free world.

    “It didn’t enter my mind that he was being serious,” Boyle, a Canadian national, told the Toronto Star a week after being rescued.

    The last time Boyle had unfettered access to a news source that wasn’t an armed kidnapper, Trump was a presidential pretender who had flirted with formally entering the 2012 race.

  296. 296.

    Ruckus

    @gvg:
    His lies cost him money. If he’d been even semi human over the years, he’d be worth a lot more. Other than being a douchebag in NYC no one cared. And it’s not like he was the only douchebag there.

  297. 297.

    Gravenstone

    @Mnemosyne: Good to hear it’s not the worst case/ When I pranged my MCL a decade ago, they gave me a nice leg immobilizer to wear. Might help if you could find something similar, at least in the short term.

  299. 299.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Humboldtblue:

    Your most Supreme Flatulence works far better for Trump seeing as though he’s a noxious bag of gas

    Perhaps “Your’ most Sublime Fullness” or “The President doesn’t just go by his gut, he relies on his full digestive system”?

  301. 301.

    Chyron HR

    @SatanicPanic:

    I’m not a huge fan of the guy but if he gets the nomination in 2020 I am fully on board with Wilmer and he will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Having to write off all of California’s electoral votes would be a seriously stupid own goal.

    Or he could… comply with the requirement?

  302. 302.

    WaterGirl

    @jl: Trump probably met with the President of Puerto Rico right after he met with the President of the Virgin Islands.

  306. 306.

    Mary G

    This sounds almost too good to be true, hope they can get it through the house:

    1: Some details of the Alexander-Murray deal to stabilize health insurance markets.— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) October 17, 2017

  308. 308.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @noncarborundum:

    Thank you (and M4). Every now and then I think it might be entertaining to learn the rudiments of HTML coding. No idea where to start, though. (I guess that’s why the good FSM in her infinite wisdom saw fit to give us Google.)

  310. 310.

    WaterGirl

    @Corner Stone:

    Can’t wait for the NYT to publish a story about how hard they tried to stop the nuclear launch.

    Too bad there won’t be anyone around to read it.

    I read On the Beach when I was in college and it had a profound effect on me.

  312. 312.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    I’m a nightmare patient, especially if they try to make me take opiates, which don’t seem to do much for me other than make me pissed off that I’m still in pain.

    He forgot to buy Chex Mix at the store on his way home. It was not pretty.

  313. 313.

    LanceThruster

    @Mnemosyne:

    OK…at least it’s grudgingly acknowledged that she’s a liar (though somehow reaching the statute of limitations conveniently brushes that all aside). That the Russian nonsense is still being actively promoted speaks to the extreme level of delusion (though I have little doubt that Trump helped launder Russian mob money as they helped keep him afloat). Also, you continue to ignore the Uranium One connections.

  314. 314.

    WaterGirl

    @Patricia Kayden: It means the fellow was talking with Dave Zirin, and after he finished his excoriation of the piece of shit in the whitehouse, he just said “bye Dave” and hung up the phone.

  315. 315.

    Chyron HR

    @SatanicPanic:

    Sure, but if it comes to the point that he refuses what are you going to do?

    Get as much enjoyment as I can out of watching the media tear him apart for it.

  316. 316.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    You meant to say tiny prick?

    You realize there is more than one slang term for the body part in question, don’t you?

    Frankensteinbeck probably wanted to write “twig,” but it loses the TR-quoting mojo that way.

  317. 317.

    Mnemosyne

    @LanceThruster:

    I’m sorry that your bullshit isn’t going over as well as you’d like, comrade. Perhaps your bosses can give you some new taking points that are a little less shopworn? I mean, even the Republicans don’t give a shit about Benghazi anymore and here you are trying to convince us that a stinky month-old fish was caught yesterday.

    Up your game, or that new guy from Vladivostok is going to steal your gig.

  318. 318.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: I think some people react badly to some drugs – if that’s the case you can’t be held responsible, it’s a chemical thing. Tell G that I’m certain that was the case.

    It happened to me when I was 7 – apparently kicking and lashing out after general anesthetic, and I certainly don’t feel responsible.

  320. 320.

    SatanicPanic

    @Chyron HR: Would that be worth reelecting Trump? I am not now, nor have a I ever been a big fan of Sanders, but people on this blog take the Bernie hate too far. Maybe Sanders has some sketchy finances, maybe he’s been writing off donations to the Marxist Party of the USA, whatever it is, there’s no way it’s as big of a deal as what Trump is hiding.

  321. 321.

    catclub

    @Kay:

    He’s been around 70 years.

    and most of that spent talking up the media, who have never called him on his lies – so why not continue.

  322. 322.

    SFAW

    @LanceThruster:

    You keep bringing up the same Fox/Russia/Rethug/Breitbart-infested bullshit, as if repetition will magically transform it into reality.
    Delete yourself, moron.

  323. 323.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    I mean, even the Republicans don’t give a shit about Benghazi anymore and here you are trying to convince us that a stinky month-old fish was caught yesterday.

    Liars can’t stop lying, why should LimpThrust-oops! be any different?

  324. 324.

    WaterGirl

    @SFAW: Why yes, yes I do! I thought “tiny” was the giveaway in the comment, I just wanted to take the opportunity to point that the pencil dick pecker in the white house undoubtedly has a tiny prick.

  325. 325.

    trollhattan

    @SatanicPanic:
    Low bar. Wilmer may well have helped elect Trump by bringing his fight to the convention, eroding party unity and ultimately harming Hillary’s campaign. Something I’ve yet to hear him cop to, much less apologize for. He and his outsized ego can go away now.

  326. 326.

    Chyron HR

    @SatanicPanic:

    Would that be worth reelecting Trump?

    Well, if Starman decides that not releasing his tax returns is worth reelecting Trump, I don’t see why I should argue. After all, a bird landed on his podium once.

  327. 327.

    jonas

    He’s a BS artist!

    Haven’t googled around for it, but iirc, this is supposedly what Obama remarked about Trump following their first WH meeting after the election. Spot on, as usual.

  329. 329.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @LanceThruster: Hillary does just lie like Donald Trump is she much more evil at because is competent at it!

    It’s like who would most likely lead the nation to war; Hillary, because she would be believed when she stated her case for a war and not indulge is a pity party like Trump does and, worse, Hillary understands how congress work and is willing to do the work to get bill threw if she had ended up president (both points Trump is totally incompetent at) so she would have got her declaration of war threw. As opposed to Trump who is so widely loathed and lazy he can’t even get the tax cuts every Republican wants passed.

    So you see my totally non-sexual subtext named friend Lance Thruster, who has never posted before here; Hillary would have been WORSE president than Donald Trump.

  331. 331.

    MisterForkbeard

    @jl: I’m okay with saying Hillary lied about the snipers thing. It’s not as bad as people like to think, for the reasons you stated – and overall, it was an incredibly minor thing and not a huge part of her biography. But when called on it, she apologized and moved on. That’s good behavior.

    It’s telling that this is really the ONE verifiable thing she’s said in which she’s probably lying. And it’s a pretty minor lie. The difference from “We were in danger of sniper fire” to “There was sniper fire” is pretty small, especially when compared to the daily lies from Republicans which actually affect people.

  332. 332.

    SatanicPanic

    @trollhattan: I’m specifically asking if he gets the nomination- and he definitely might- would it be worth torpedoing it? I’ve got to say that a “yes” strikes me as f*cking insane

    @Chyron HR: Because a Sanders presidency would be better than a Trump presidency? Because your feelings about what Sanders did and a need for an apology aren’t worth another four years of a racist moron in the White House? I can’t believe I’m having to explain binary choices on this blog of all places.

  333. 333.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    One of the reasons I generally refer to him as Lying Littledick. Glad to see you’re on board with the general idea, sorry for doubting.

  335. 335.

    ruemara

    @Mnemosyne: Great news, indeed!

    @SatanicPanic: What is with the pass Sanders can get on this nonsense? You know, people don’t hate Sanders, well at least not initially. They hate the fact that he gets to play saint while influence peddling, casting shitty votes for war, saying dumb bigoted and misogynistic things that Democratic politicians get roasted for. They hate his fan base and they hate the mythology. The rules are show your taxes. Nothing more, nothing less. Just conform to it. If you’re the fucking saving grace of liberalism then it won’t affect you.

  336. 336.

    LanceThruster

    @Mnemosyne:

    Even should I be mistaken on any particular issue, the views are my own. Your deflection about being a Russian operative hold all the veracity of the Trumpenfuhrer bellowing about ‘fake news.’ Again, there is no expectation to sway the Kool-Aid drinkers who have far too much emotionally invested to ever let questions of Hillary’s integrity peek through the cracks. It is enough for others to see an alternate viewpoint supported by facts. Mnemosyne is textbook as far as ignoring points called out on…moving on to a new gambit whenever convenient. But, at least the inner circle accolades will continue to motivate.

  338. 338.

    Chyron HR

    @SatanicPanic:

    What in god’s name are you even ranting about? Nobody here said they wouldn’t vote for the junior senator from Vermont if he was the Democratic candidate. We’re talking about a hypothetical law that would force him to release his tax returns to the public (which he’s supposed to do anyway), and it would somehow be my fault if he decides he would rather lose the election than do so?

    And if he doesn’t release his tax returns, law or no law, the media will descend upon him for a feeding frenzy of but her e-mails proportions, so he goddamned better do it or he will lose even if he carries California.

  339. 339.

    Mnemosyne

    @LanceThruster:

    Oh, comrade, I’ve factually disproven your propaganda points again and again and again, to the point where people in that thread were vocally embarrassed for you.

    That’s why it’s no longer worth my time to bother to engage with you. You looked at the dead mothers and babies at the Syrian maternity hospital that the Russians bombed barely three weeks ago and bleated, But her emails!

  341. 341.

    SFAW

    @LanceThruster:

    Yeah, whatever. Read the article, looking for “evidence” that Hitlary is, once again, the mostest lyingest lying liar EVAH! Much to my non-surprise, no such “evidence.”

    Delete yourself, moron.

  342. 342.

    Mnemosyne

    @SatanicPanic:

    I think we need to be clear here: the reason people are still pissed about Sanders’ ongoing refusal to release more than one (1) tax return is that he and his campaign combed through the twenty-five years of full returns that Hillary posted online and attacked her on the things they found in them.

    IOW, Sanders cheated — he used Hillary’s own transparency against her and insisted that her very transparency was proof that she was crooked.

    No, I am not ready to play nice over the motherfucking tax returns.

  343. 343.

    jonas

    Has anyone pointed out that if Obama called anyone, it would have been the fallen soldier’s widow, not his parents?

  344. 344.

    SFAW

    @LanceThruster:

    Oh, quit whining. You’re as thin-skinned as your idol, Lying Littledick. Oh, and your “Trumpenfuehrer” usage doesn’t impress anyone here, nor cause anyone to think that you’re actually anti-Shitgibbon.

    Delete yourself, tovarishch.

  345. 345.

    Mnemosyne

    @jonas:

    IIRC, that was one of the post-Benghazi attacks that they were using against Obama — they had an angry mother who was pissed off that they called her son’s widow rather than her. Then it came out that she was estranged from him and hated his wife, which was why she was pissed that they had called her instead.

    And then it turned out that she was his stepmother, and his birth mother wanted her to STFU.

    It was quite the shitshow. IIRC, the Repugs featured her at their convention.

  347. 347.

    SatanicPanic

    @Chyron HR: I’m saying that IF Brown had not vetoed the law, and Sanders had decided to not release his tax returns, he would be off the ballot and that would be stupid because he would lose the election. I don’t know what’s in his tax returns, maybe it’s something he really doesn’t want out there. It might be super important to him, I don’t know. This is not implausible- Brown not vetoing the law would have put it on the books and there’s a decent chance Sanders will be nominated. I don’t give a sh*t about you or anyone else’s feelings about Sanders, the point is that combining a stubborn old man and a stupid law would result in another Trump win. It would NEVER result in Trump releasing his returns. Ergo I am glad that Brown vetoed it. Duh.

  350. 350.

    SatanicPanic

    @Mnemosyne: I just outlined an unlikely, but plausible scenario whereby Trump wins reelection and you are all concerned more about Sanders’ tax returns than 4 more years of Trump. I don’t like Sanders, I don’t like that he didn’t release his returns. I don’t like his behavior before or after the convention. I think he probably smells bad. But jesus christ people, get a grip, he’s better than Trump. Thank god Jerry Brown had the good sense to veto this bill.

  352. 352.

    Miss Bianca

    @WaterGirl: @Mnemosyne: It’s always better to reveal a Chex Mix addiction to the hospital staff – that way, they know to know to sedate you when you start getting agitated because you’re going thru’ withdrawal.

  353. 353.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @SFAW:
    I think it’s worth examining what he has trouble lying about. He lies so easily and reflexively, that if he can’t just deny he said it or change his mind on an issue at a moment’s notice, he must seriously care about it.

    Top of that list is whether he approves of Nazis, but I’m sure there are others.

  354. 354.

    SFAW

    @Miss Bianca:

    It’s always better to reveal a Chex Mix addiction to the hospital staff – that way, they know to know to sedate you when you start getting agitated because you’re going thru’ withdrawal.

    It’s comments like this that make me appreciate this joint.

    I think.

  355. 355.

    joel hanes

    @Humboldtblue:

    Jerry is as close you can get to a Republican in the Dems house.

    *sigh*

    Jerry Brown is a hero, who was willing to be the mayor of Oakland, an utterly thankless job, because he believes that government is a powerful and legitimate way to help people, and taxes are legitmate way to fund government.

    Have you looked at the Republicans ?

    Brown has California on a steady course to renewed prosperity, and is attempting to solve the problems and address the concerns even of people who did not vote for him, because he must be the Governor of the entire state, not just of its progressive voters. I personally hate the water tunnel idea, because fuck the farmers (they vote R) and fuck SoCal (desert is a stupid place to build cities). Brown is a bigger man than I, and is attempting to solve the state’s problems responsibly.

    Every state should be so lucky.

    The Dem firing squad is simply astounding in its tendency to turn its fire on the best and most effective members of the party, instead of on the enemy.

  359. 359.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    I have no idea if this is true or not, but someone told me that the reason I start throwing up when I take opiates is that I go into withdrawal mode as soon as I metabolize the dose. That was a little freaky to hear, though it’s entirely possible that I misunderstood what they were telling me. I had that bad reaction within 24 hours or less with Vicodin.

  360. 360.

    joel hanes

    @trollhattan:

    In my lifetime I’m not sure my parents ever refilled the dinner table pepper shaker.

    Eating in midwestern “family” restaurants (with my family, natch) I often find that I must remove the cap of the black pepper shaker because the grind is too coarse for the holes and nothing will come out. And no one corrects it, because no one notices, because midwest.

  362. 362.

    Westyny

    @Villago Delenda Est: All three states were lost by razor thin margins, abetted by russobots and voter suppression. NC and FL were only lost by a couple of percentage points. I’m supporting Vote Riders.

  363. 363.

    Mnemosyne

    @joel hanes:

    fuck SoCal (desert is a stupid place to build cities)

    We’re.
    Not.
    A.
    Desert.

    Jaysus, man. Don’t fall for the propaganda. The populated parts of So Cal are a Mediterranean climate (or were, until climate change). The desert doesn’t start until Victorville.

    ETA: But I think we can all agree that the farmers are using WAY more than their fair share, and bitching about it besides. Fuck those guys.

  364. 364.

    SFAW

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    he must seriously care about it.

    I think the only thing he cares about is whether people will give him shit over something, and even then …

    Josh Marshall has had, over the past months, interesting comments regarding Shitgibbon’s personality and motivations. One of his recent observations is that, not only does Shitgibbon see (almost) everything as an “I gotta win, you gotta lose” transaction, but Josh also posits that Shitgibbon does not feel he won unless and until he sees you lose. I’m not a shrink, but I have a tough time disagreeing with that hypothesis.

    Didn’t really address the idea that he has trouble lying about certain things, because I don’t yet agree or disagree with that idea — I would need to think about it some more. But it is an intriguing idea.

  366. 366.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @burnspbesq: Burying us in BS may well be part of a tactic, almost a strategy, and that may be what LAO meant by suddenly being at a breaking point. Maybe. However, I wonder if there is something else happening. I see a lot of this around the inter-toobes today, this specific response to this specific incident. Trump is not going to quit doing dumb-assed shit like this. While some of us who follow this crap may find that blood is dripping out of our ears, there’s probably a cohort made up of way more people who are NOW starting to get pissed at the moran and his enablers in Congress. Think of it as a bell curve. We’re the wedge to the left. The Trump Window of Flabbergast Outrage now completely encompasses us and is spreading to the right on the curve, where the huge bolus of citizens are. It’s just a matter of time before an enormous percentage of people will reach Peak Trump Disgust.

    And the rise on the curve is sharp.

  368. 368.

    SatanicPanic

    @Mnemosyne: I’M NOT TRYING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. I AM SAYING IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE THAT IT WOULD. Jesus christ. I give up with you people.

  369. 369.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    (A) Glad your knee injury isn’t as bad as you feared, although I’m sure it hurts like billy-oh. Hope it heals quickly and fully, and gives you no more problems.

    (B) Had CNN on the radio (not CNN Radio, just the audio of their normal TV programming), and Jake Tapper was fluffing some stupid tax reform debate he’s hosting between Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz. I can’t think of any two people I’d less rather hear on that subject.

    For Sanders: Because unless Tapper and Cruz devote the entire allotted time to pounding him on why he never released his own tax returns, he has nothing useful or laid to say on the topic.

    For Cruz: Because Cruz.

  370. 370.

    Mnemosyne

    @LanceThruster:

    Russian exortion threats and kickbacks brought legitimate national security concerns, “And none of that evidence got aired before the Obama administration made those decisions,” a souce who insisted on anonymity out of fear of retribution told The Hill.

    Fake news, comrade.

  371. 371.

    WaterGirl

    @Chyron HR: The Jr. senator for vermont should not be the democratic candidate. That turned out to be a huge mistake, and I hope the party doesn’t make that particular mistake again.

    edit: to clarify, I mean that he should not be allowed to run as a Democrat. Let him run as an independent. The fact that he switched away from being a democrat right after the election is all I need to know.

  372. 372.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    October 17, 2017 at 5:27 pm

    Burying us in BS may well be part of a tactic, almost a strategy

    Isn’t that colloquially known as the “Mushroom Method”? (“Keep ’em in the dark and throw shit at ’em.”)

  373. 373.

    WaterGirl

    @Miss Bianca: I am a chex mix snob. I will only eat home-made, though it doesn’t have to be made by me!

    Give me a choice between really good chex mix and the best brownie in the world, I am likely to choose the chex mix. With a show of hands, how many people here will be sending me chex mix for Christmas? I promise to share with Mnem.

    edited

  376. 376.

    Mnemosyne

    @SatanicPanic:

    Here’s the thing: if the Sanders fans refuse to understand why Democrats resent them, they’re going to be in for a hell of a shock in 2020, and it will be all their own fault for refusing to listen when people tried to tell them why they resent having Sanders shoved down their throats.

    And, to take it past you and what you’re saying, the people who whined about “Crooked Hillary” and bragged about “voting their conscience” are going to find out that the rest of us have consciences, too, and we have the receipts showing that if they refuse to accept a single iota of blame for 2016, we don’t have to accept any for 2020. You reap what you sow, and they are sowing a lot of discord on the false assumption that it will never rebound on them.

  377. 377.

    joel hanes

    @Mnemosyne:

    Don’t fall for the propaganda.

    Richard Henry Dana Jr.’s observations and experiences in Two Years Before The Mast inform my opinion.
    Without Noah Cross’s William Mulholland’s appropriation of water from other basins, you’d be a series of very small towns.

    (In case you can’t tell, I’m approaching this as a trash-talking session, like Cole talking Steelers, not as a serious characterization of SoCal and its residents. I know some good farmers, too, but not in Westlands. Glad your knee is only sprained. Hope you can find a source of home-made ChexMix, and may the great god Ralston bring back Rye Chex so that it can once again be made by the original recipe by those who care.)

  378. 378.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    The Jr. senator for vermont should not be the A democratic candidate.

    He shouldn’t be the Democratic Party’s candidate at all — he shouldn’t even be permitted to run or compete in the primaries/caucuses — until he has formally joined the party and worked hard on behalf of various other candidates through fundraising and other support for some predetermined period of time. Both he and Trump, among their many other sins, visited enormous mayhem and perhaps permanent damage upon “their” parties in 2016 by waltzing in and tossing wooden shoes in the mechanism.

  379. 379.

    joel hanes

    @WaterGirl:

    how many people here will be sending me chex mix for Christmas?

    If you can find me any Rye Chex, I promise to send you half the resulting mix.

    My mom has been making about five gallons of Chex Mix every December since forever, and has the recipe dialed in.
    While it lasts, I can’t stay at her house for more than three days, because my trousers all mysteriously shrink.

  380. 380.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes, that is what I was trying to say. I hope my edit helped. Wilmer had his chance to show the he was a democrat in spirit, and his big fat ego got in the way. I loathe Bernie Sanders, and I say this as someone who voted for him in the primary before he started showing us who he really is. He is not a democrat, in name or in spirit.

  381. 381.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mnemosyne: Huh! Well, Vicodin made me hallucinate when they gave it to me after surgery one time, so I’ve just decided to tell hospital staff that I’m allergic to it. Other sedatives don’t seem to have that effect on me.

    @joel hanes: ooh, Rye Chex…haven’t seen those in a long time, but I used to love ’em!

  382. 382.

    SatanicPanic

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not making any case for Sanders, I am not even saying he’s likely, only that there is a non-zero chance of his candidacy and a zero chance of Donald Trump releasing his tax returns. So the law would only hurt us. If you’re convinced that there is a zero chance of Sanders winning the nomination, great. I am not. We obviously won’t know who is right for at least a year or two.

    I don’t think there is any reason to argue this further because I am not now nor have I ever been a BernieBro so I don’t want to be made to feel like I am answering for them.

  384. 384.

    WaterGirl

    @joel hanes: Mmm. I love rye! I use more wheat chex than my recipe calls for, so I bet I would love the rye. I’m not sure I even knew that was a thing. I wonder if that’s one of those products that you can only find in bigger cities? I promise that if I see any or find any, I will send some to you. How many boxes?

  385. 385.

    WaterGirl

    @joel hanes: I just checked, they don’t even list rye chex on their website. Were you just messing with me? Or was that previously a product and the bastards discontinued it?

  386. 386.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @joel hanes:

    I used to make it every year, but stopped for some reason. Should take it up again.

    I use Corn, Rice, Wheat and Rye Chex; tiny pretzels (stick or curly, doesn’t matter); almonds, cashews, pecans and sometimes walnuts (but no peanuts; I hate them and many people, of course, have a genuine intolerance); more butter than you can imagine; plenty of Worcestershire sauce, dash of Tabasco, lots of garlic and onion powder. Melt the whole mess together in a low oven; stir every 15 minutes or so; watch a movie; take the mix out of the oven when you get around to thinking about it, and cool on paper towels while you whip up another batch. Try not to eat it all while it’s cooling; you promised it for the office holiday potluck, remember?

  387. 387.

    Gerald Parks

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
    True THAT!!!@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
    AND never forget …these conservatives, independents, libertarians, tea baggers, etc may claim not to be white supremacist, racist, bigots, and what not …but each and every last one of them voted for and are in lock step with one running the United States of America!
    THAT speaks louder than all their bs!

  388. 388.

    Mnemosyne

    @joel hanes:

    Why can I never find the GIFs I want when I need them? Why?
    /shakes fist at the sky

    Anyway, you’re just jealous because we have twice the population and better weather. Plus we can name-drop whenever we want. Oh, it’s so sad that Tom Petty died. I remember when I almost ran him over on Wilshire because he jaywalked in front of my car to get to LACMA.

    (That’s a true story, BTW. Quentin Tarantino is also on my list of Celebrities Who Walked Out In Front Of My Car.)

  390. 390.

    HumboldtBlue

    @joel hanes:

    You’re not going to find a more staunch supporter and admirer of Brown. I’m sorry you took that throw away comment to believe otherwise. Jerry has been an outstanding administrator everywhere he has been. Losing him will hurt the state and the party.

  391. 391.

    Mnemosyne

    @SatanicPanic:

    You had the bad luck to pop up in a thread where a genuine Bro was already operating, so that didn’t help. It’s quite possible that Brown is right and such a law would be unconstitutional, so I’m not that upset that it didn’t pass. Brown definitely knows the Constitution better than I do.

  392. 392.

    Ksmiami

    Sanders just needs to shut up and go away. I hate his hair, his unrealistic bs, his misogyny, his followers and his spiteful countenance. He knew what was at stake in 2016 and threw the most innocent to the wolves for his ego.

  393. 393.

    Bill Arnold

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think most people here have written Kelly and McMaster off as far as protecting us from anything other than maybe outright nuclear war. I don’t think anyone has said much to defend them in a few weeks.

    I’d describe it as a decrease in the weighted probability of unfavorable outcomes. Nuclear war is a very very highly weighted unfavorable, so…
    (Also consider (and this applies in general) that there may be other reasons for praise, thoroughly muted vitriol, or even well argued criticism. To be clearer, one is – who is in the audience, including people and automation?)

  395. 395.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    My boss brought in cookies and had the gall to offer some to me. Asked him if he’s trying to kill me. Salty snacks, No. Sweet snacks, No. What the hell is left? Fruit? Carrots? Damn this getting old crap.

  396. 396.

    joel hanes

    @WaterGirl:

    was that previously a product and the bastards discontinued it?

    Rye Chex were discontinued over twenty years ago — maybe even forty years.
    Wikipedia doesn’t even acknowledge them, but I assure you that they were once an actual thing.

    Does anyone (efgoldman?) remember the Chex Press, printed on an extra leaf of the back of the Chex cereals boxes,
    back in the first years after Chex were introduced, when they were still made by Ralston?

  397. 397.

    joel hanes

    @Mnemosyne:

    better weather.
    Opinions differ. I’m miserable when it’s warmer than 78 F.

    Robin Williams once sat down with us at a lunch table in the crowded ski lodge at Alpine Meadows.
    We said “Hi” and he said “Hi” and we all ate.
    He was not a tall man.

  398. 398.

    joel hanes

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Try not to eat it all while it’s cooling

    It tastes better after two days, as the oils distribute the oil-soluble flavors from the garlic and onions, and as the nuts recover from having been heated.
    Mom puts cheerios in hers — wonderfully absorbent, they suck up the butter/spice/Worchestershire flavor and give it back most delightfully.

  399. 399.

    Waynski

    @SFAW:

    But compared to actual humans? Not so much. Shitgibbon make a pre-operation Charlie Gordon look like a genius.

    He makes Charlie Sheen look like a genius. Sorry, if someone hit that already upthread, but it was a fat pitch…. had to swing.

  400. 400.

    NorthLeft12

    @gvg: I read an article [think it was on Hullabaloo] last week about a Renoir copy that Deadbeat Donald owned. The person interviewed was a DD acquaintance and he recognized the painting hanging in the Donald’s office and knew that the original is hanging in an art museum in Chicago. He mentioned that to the Orange Idiot and DD denied that it was a copy, kept repeating that it was the original. The guy eventually gave up, and sometime later saw the same copy in Donald’s plane. He just acknowledged the painting and DD went on about it being an original etc. The acquaintance did not bother to replay the same conversation as before knowing it would end in the same place.
    I am not completely sure that the Donald actually knew anymore that it was a copy. This is either a great example of what a liar he is or how ignorant and gullible he is.

  402. 402.

    J R in WV

    @Humboldtblue:

    Jerry is as close you can get to a Republican in the Dems house. I think he made the correct choice, however.

    It’s a poll tax. I think the fewer hurdles to a candidacy the better and I think that’s at the root of Jerry’s reasoning.

    I’m old enough to remember when Jerry Brown (jr. 2nd. ?) was regarded as a socialist or comm</emunist, left-winger soft on democracy left winger; and Left winger can’t be said too much!!!

    Now, you’re calling him a Republican in Dem clothing because you disagree with him? Too sad!

  403. 403.

    WaterGirl

    @joel hanes: @SiubhanDuinne: I use butter, too. Corn chex, rice chex, wheat chex, pretzel sticks and annie’s cheddar bunnies. I skip the nuts altogether.

    Agree that it’s best on day 2 or later. Sublime.

    Damn you for talking about rye chex mix, that sounds awesome. Some other company needs to make those if the chex people won’t.

  410. 410.

    SFAW

    @Kathleen:

    Maggie will tweet how somber

    Ridiculous. Shitgibbon doesn’t know the spelling of the word, never mind its meaning. He’d probably think it was “sombrero,” and he would never compare his daughter-wife to a Messican.

    Oh, wait … are you implying that she wouldn’t be a stenographer, “just this once”?

  412. 412.

    J R in WV

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Here at the (then) new minor league baseball park, an acquaintance’s wife was hit by a foul ball in her temple with no warning. She never woke up, died some years later. He had to divorce her in order for Medicaid to take over the nursing home expenses. Horrible.

    So any sport where the hard ball flies fast can kill participants and fans alike.

  413. 413.

    J R in WV

    @Mnemosyne:

    My wife had shoulder surgery some time ago after a poorly reduced dislocation. When she began to wake in the recovery area, she barely remembers a nurse calling for “More morphine, she’s getting rowdy!”

    Now when she’s having surgery we always warn the staff that she has a history of coming awake and being – agitated, shall we say? It evidently took several nurses to hold her down until the meds began to take effect.

  415. 415.

    J R in WV

    @LanceThruster:

    You fucking Russian Troll, Secretary Clinton had nothing to do with the uranium transaction, which was a trivial civilian event with nothing to do with arms.

    That action was approved by virtually the entire US government, and Sec. Clinton specifically stayed out of it! So fuck you with a rusty tool!! Like a sythe, or a hay knife.

  416. 416.

    Ksmiami

    @LanceThruster: nope he’s a useless SDS leftover who didn’t appeal to core Democratic groups at all. As Democratic Party members know, youth vote is great but they don’t show up- Sanders would have lost 48 states

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