Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

The revolution will be supervised.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

Be a wild strawberry.

“woke” is the new caravan.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Good lord, these people are nuts.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Suite “Home” Alabama

Open Thread: Suite “Home” Alabama

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That “unsure” 11% seems important. CNN:

Democrat Doug Jones — once thought to be a longshot in the Deep South — has tied Republican nominee and former judge Roy Moore in Alabama’s US Senate race, a new poll shows…

Moore and Jones will face off in a special election to fill Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ former seat December 12.

The poll confirms Republicans’ fears that Moore — who campaigns on a theocratic, anti-LGBT message and has twice been ousted as state Supreme Court chief justice, once for refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument and once for refusing to follow the Supreme Court’s ruling legalizing same-sex marriage — would be a uniquely vulnerable candidate in a state President Donald Trump won last year by 28 percentage points…

Jones, a former prosecutor who convicted two former Klansmen in the bombing of Birmingham’s 16th Street Baptist Church, has sought to portray Moore as someone who would embarrass Alabama on the national stage…

Moore has a history of under performing compared to national Republican leaders in Alabama. In the 2012 race for state Supreme Court chief justice, he won by just 2 points over little-known circuit court judge Bob Vance in a year Mitt Romney won the state by 22 points…

Roy Moore’s Senate run is turning into the roadshow version of Trump’s campaign, and that was a farcical imitation of a real campaign…


Secretary of State Merrill’s a Repub, and of course a big fan of voter suppression. Good thing he’s on public notice about Russian vote-diddling — he can’t plausibly claim he had no idea there was gambling going on in his personal casino.


.

But the GOP libertarians are all in! for this stone-tablet Talibangelical…

I’d call them hypocrites, but I’ve already pointed out they’re libertarians, so…

(Stop touching yourself, Dana — you can’t afford to pull any more blood away from your brain.)

Goal Thermometer

Reader Interactions

128Comments

  1. 1.

    Brachiator

    Moore will win comfortably. The “unsure” 11 percent are lying to pollsters.

    Ignorant people in Alabama loved that 10 Commandments crap.

  4. 4.

    Boatboy_srq

    AL GOTea: better a Russkie tool than a Dummocrat.

    Wasn’t there a time when doing some other country’s dirty work to undermine The Republic was somehow vaguely unpatriotic?

  5. 5.

    JGabriel

    BamaSmackTalk®:

    [AL Secretary of State John Merrill] may be up to speed, but will he do anything about it?

    John Merrill:

    Only if they try to do anything to influence the election in Alabama. Our most recent meeting with the Department of Homeland Security was two weeks ago

    Shorter John Merril: We’ll close the barn door after the horses are stolen.

  7. 7.

    Mike J

    Conservative radio host Dana Loesch called Roy Moore the “Gandalf of Alabama” for holding his staff strong

    I’d believe “grand wizard.”

  8. 8.

    gene108

    I really wish the media would start asking what it is about Republicans that makes Putin put so much effort into getting them elected.

    Looks like Moore’s going to get an assist from Putin. Other candidates have gotten it.

  9. 9.

    cmorenc

    When we drove through southern Alabama a year ago on our way to visit relatives near Pensacola, Fla, once we got off the interstate and onto Alabama state roads – I have never seen *anywhere* remotely close so many yards with Confederate flags in the yard and “Lock Hillary Up” yard signs – not even in South Carolina. The prevailing mentality seems to be a wish to resist and repeal everything about modern post-1960 society in America, except for the vastly better technological advancements. Actually, maybe the critical date would be 1954 (Brown v Board decision overturning legal segregation of schools) – but OTOH much of the south didn’t begin taking that seriously until the US Justice Department and the lower federal courts began actually taking enforcing that seriously in the 1960s, except for a few notable locations such as Little Rock, Arkansas where initial prominent enforcements occurred.

  12. 12.

    Archon

    The fact the anyone claiming to have libertarian leanings would endorse a guy like Roy Moore for senator shows you how absolutely bankrupt that ideology is.

  15. 15.

    El Caganer

    What’s that “holding his staff strong” thing about, anyway? Some kind of Olympics self-abuse contest?

  16. 16.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Brachiator:

    Moore will win comfortably. The “unsure” 11 percent are lying to pollsters.

    Agreed. The Villagers want a horse race so will promote the crap out of that but ultimately, the lawless theocrat will win.

    Ignorant people People most likely to vote in an off-year special election in Alabama loved that 10 Commandments crap.

    Fixed so as to not to offend the 10-12 Democrats left in that state.

  21. 21.

    Jeff

    I knew it had to get this bad for anything to change. Obama was only a breather. The right had to go fully nuts for people to say enough. Maybe, just maybe the enough phase has arrived. We’ll see.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    You guys already know this but that last 10 is the hard part :)

    Still! I bet southern Democrats are thrilled they have a race. It’s good for morale.

  24. 24.

    Nicole

    The 11% unsure = the 3rd party voters in 2016. Deep down they want the racist unqualified guy, but intellectually they understand that’s wrong, so they take the coward’s way out. I have some relatives who did that.

  26. 26.

    Kay

    See if Democrats had followed my suggestion and worked really hard at voting rights in places no one thought they could win just because it’s the right thing to do and voters need an advocate and would love it if they got one, they would be better positioned.

    But they did NOT :)

    Democrats can BE the voting rights party. Republicans have voter suppression covered so it’s just going begging. I bet they have a pretty good understanding of the value of voting rights in Alabama.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    You need a shot in the arm once in a while in conservative areas. It’s very exciting to even get to “long shot” territory.

    But the last part is the hardest. We regularly lose by 5 points here. It’s “only” 5 points but it’s like pulling fucking teeth.

  28. 28.

    MCA1

    @Brachiator: I think they’re lying to themselves, not pollsters. They don’t want to let themselves believe that they’d vote for a racist talibangelical criminal against a person whose character is unquestioned and has made his life a vehicle for progress just because the former has an R after his name and the latter a D. They’ll spend from now to election day trying to polish up their unease about Jones for some bullshit reason so that psychically they can tell themselves they reluctantly pulled the lever for Moore despite some misgivings.

    I’m guessing 2 out of that 11 percent will vote for Jones, and 1 of the 3% of “other” will, too. He’ll get way more votes than he would have against anyone else and lose by single digits. But I agree with you and others that this is not actually a tie right now.

  29. 29.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Angry Al Franken questioning Jefferson Beauregard Sayshuns

    @LanceThruster: It’s not easy to out-crazy Michele Bachman.

    You do your best though, don’t you?

  30. 30.

    Elizabelle

    @Nicole:

    I suspect unsure = “not sure I want to out myself as a racist/idealogue to this pollster.”

    If they are actually third party, maybe the little darlings will choose to stay home.

    Also, FWIW, I wonder if Alabama’s tourism will suffer as a result of nominating Moore? And then Biloxi pulling “To Kill a Mockingbird” from its 8th grade reading list. USA Today: Banned in Biloxi, ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ raises old censorship debate

    You want to spend your money in Alabama? I do not think I do.

  31. 31.

    trollhattan

    About bloody time.

    The Democratic National Committee (DNC) will consider a member’s resolution this week that calls on independent Sens. Bernie Sanders (Vt) and Angus King (Maine) to run as Democrats in 2018.

    The resolution, sponsored by California DNC member Bob Mulholland, lauds both senators’ contributions “to key Democratic caucuses,” but argues that the DNC has to focus on electing Democrats up and down the ticket.

    “Therefore, be it resolved, that the DNC recognizes the important contributions of the independent Senators from Maine and Vermont to causes at the heart of the Democratic party’s mission and urge them to run as Democrats,” the draft of the resolution states, before calling on “candidates and voters who share common goals and beliefs with Democrats to register or affiliate with the Democratic party in 2017, 2018 and beyond.”

    Doubt it will work, but at least they’re saying it with their out-loud voices.

  33. 33.

    Citizen_X

    Libertarian-leaning Senator endorses politician who called for ban on religious minorities serving in Congress

    This is my shock-ed face.

    And I see the “don’t even try” brigade is out in full force already. Fuck that. Even if you don’t win, make the motherfuckers sweat a little.

  34. 34.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Ben Sasse is the second Republican Senator to address Jefferson Beauregard as “General”. He has a PhD in American history from Yale.

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    Hm, well, I thought I had real work to do today at the office, but it turns out the 200+ errors in the overnight log are Somebody Else’s Problem™. I guess I’m back to working on the writer’s website project.

    Incidentally, if any (fiction) writers would be down to answer a few user interface questions, I have some.

  36. 36.

    Kay

    @burnspbesq:

    A federal lawsuit challenging Alabama’s law that requires voters to present identification before they can cast a ballot was filed Wednesday by Greater Birmingham Ministries and the Alabama NAACP.
    The lawsuit alleges Alabama violated the U.S. Constitution and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 when the state enacted a photo ID law in 2011. Prior to that non-photo IDs were accepted.

    Lawsuits are only one piece. They’re canvassing anyway. They need to talk specifics with voters about how they are going to jump thru these hoops and get voted. It should be a third of every Democratic campaign with a local voting process person part of the campaign. Doesn’t have to be a lawyer. Can be a pollworker.

  40. 40.

    cmorenc

    @Brachiator:

    Moore will win comfortably. The “unsure” 11 percent are lying to pollsters.

    Not all of them are lying. Nevertheless, your end conclusion is correct, because:
    1) most of the ones who aren’t lying about being undecided will stay home rather than vote for the D candidate;
    2) enough of the ones who are lying will show up and vote for Moore for him to win by a clear mid-single digit margin of 5 to 8 points.

    As to the impact of a Senator Moore R-Alabama, I myself am undecided on whether his prominent presence in the US Senate as a raving lunatic will perversely assists the democrats nationally (even though Alabama is a lost cause) or else only increase the relative power of raving lunatic Rs in the senate with little to no net effect nationally on other federal races in 2018 or 2020. As much as I’d like to think it would give us a perverse electoral benefit – so far, neither Rand Paul, nor Steven King, nor Mike Lee nor Ted Cruz seem to be generating any similar perverse help to us with their asshole craziness. And so while the possibility exists that Moore may be the straw that breaks the far-right camel’s back, let’s not bet the house (or the Senate) on that proving true.

  42. 42.

    Mart

    Trump twitted he had proof he did not tell the soldier’s widow “he knew what he was getting into”. The Dem Congresswoman said he is liar and said, “How about you go get that proof and call me back?””.Everyone should use that simple pushback on the creep.

  43. 43.

    Mnemosyne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    The problem for me is that having close polling is where the Russians can come in and stir things up to eke out a win. As shown above, the ‘bots are already assembling for Moore.

    And our troll shows up in this thread like, Da, comrade, I am Americans just like all here are also Americans too.

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    One hopes this is accurate.

    Democrat Ralph Northam leads Republican Ed Gillespie by 14 points in the race to be the next Virginia governor, according to a Quinnipiac University survey released Wednesday.

    The poll found Northam, the current Lt. Gov. of Virginia, taking 53 percent over Gillespie, the former Republican National Committee chairman, at 39 percent. In the previous Quinnipiac University survey, released in September, Northam led by 10 points, 51 to 41 percent.

    The survey appears to be an outlier. Three polls released in October have found Northam ahead by between 4 points and 6 points, while a fourth poll, conducted by Monmouth University, found Gillespie ahead by 1.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Lawsuits are part of weight loss? :)

    Democrats need to create a private system for voting rights protection. They have to replicate what should be a state role in education and customer service and enforcement. They should devote 1/3 of campaign money and effort to doing that, because it will pay dividends past the campaign. Like a privately funded “infrastructure” for voting rights, necessary in areas were conservatives are in power. Especially because they can combine that with the canvassing they already do.

    It works really well. We just happened to have a referendum on labor unions ALONG with referendum on voting rights . The pro-union referendum was destined to win so we piggybacked the voting rights piece along with it, literally arguing “our voters” need this or you will LOSE on the other issue.

    Attach it to everything.

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    Oh boy, he’s going to make a SUPER senator.

    Alabama’s Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore said Wednesday that NFL players and other athletes who take a knee during the national anthem in protest are violating the law with their actions. In an interview with Time Magazine, Moore claimed that NFL players are violating a section of 36 U.S. Code § 301, a section of U.S. law that establishes the “Star’s Spangled Banner” as the national anthem, and details proper respectful conduct during its performance.

    “It’s against the law, you know that?” Moore said. “It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law.”

    “If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law,” he added. “If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?”

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Create a voting process person during the campaign. That person knows what they need to vote. When the campaign leaves that person still lives there and now you have a local expert. It pays past the campaign and the candidate. It’s an investment in infrastructure and campaigns are making contacts anyway – add “voting” as an actual serious piece of every single campaign. One that gets funding and a team.

  51. 51.

    Mnemosyne

    @cmorenc:

    I agree with rikyrah on this one — if Democrats can’t be all in to try and elect the guy who managed to send the murderers of 4 little girls to jail, who can we support? Who would be a better Democrat for us to highlight?

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @chris: At the very least I expect significant vandalism. Also a potential visit from the Khaki Klad Klan folks a la Charlottesville. Or Richmond. Or UF.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    I’ve started getting emails from Eric Holder’s new voting rights group, but I forget what it’s called.

  54. 54.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kay: No argument on this either. I’m not an elections/campaigns specialist though I know the basics, just a nat-sec specialist. But one thing I do know is that local knowledge and local points of contact who can be reached out to and who can then reach out because they know the local human geography, is of vital importance to successfully accomplishing anything.

  55. 55.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m more worried about how voter suppression tilts the scales. As was replied to my earlier comment, sure AL is 1/4 AA but how easy will it be for them to get out in an off year to vote? For that matter any year? That’s more of a threat to our democracy than the Russians.

    My knee jerk reaction to this race is how it might show if there’s any such thing as a “beyond the pale” candidate even in a place as AL and what we might read into that for next year. Think Todd Akin here in Misery as a pre-Twitler Beyond The Pale candidate. But, since this is an off-year, special election, it skews any meaningful takeaways other than if Jones wins. I think that would be as earth-shattering politically as when the Popular Vote Loser won the electoral college. OTOH, if the lawless theocrat wins, fully expect Repub primaries next year to reflect this particular nomination. In other words, somebody like McCaskill will face a person who would make Akin look mainstream.

    The playing field is oh-so decidedly against us in AL. Would be nice if Jones wins and Dems should do everything they can to get him elected. But I’m not counting on it.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    I want to move away from thinking about it as two parts- campaigns and voting rights. Voting- the ground level process- belongs in the campaign part and it’s a nice fit for Democrats because as it happens voting rights is one of the issues they run on. The higher order legal work should of course continue but they’re not the same thing.

    We focus too much on courts and not enough on the practical problems these suppression laws create. We have the lawsuit part. The NAACP and ACLU and League of Women Voters and homeless advocates hold their own on suing. We can do VOTING while they sue.

  57. 57.

    Doug R

    Last time I donated was to Darcy Burner.
    I just gave Doug Jones $25. Good work on Star Trek Discovery ;)

  58. 58.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Always remember these endorsements when you argue that anyone is a libertarian and not a cultural conservative. Whatever they say about just being in it for taxes and deregulation, when the rubber hits the road they are the most hyper-conservative bigots of all. I’m looking at you, Koch Brothers. Your difference with the Mercers is whether you want minorities exterminated, or just a slave underclass.

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    @MCA1:

    I think they’re lying to themselves, not pollsters. They don’t want to let themselves believe that they’d vote for a racist talibangelical criminal

    We’re talking about Alabama. People there, and elsewhere, are very comfortable with their racism and religious fervor.

    @Regime Touchon:

    not necessarily so. Building grassroots movement here. Need all hands on deck. Send money to his campaign!

    I agree that support and money is a good thing here. Fighting the good fight is necessary, no matter what the odds. And as I have noted here many times, polls are snapshots, not prophecies.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    When the first voter ID law went in in Ohio some more moderate Democrats said “this is fine but you’ll have to offer assistance if we’re setting up hoops” – but that never happened. The state never picked it up. They don’t even do education when they change the laws. So someone else has to do that and since campaigns are out there contacting voters and raising money and they aren’t gonna win if their voters can’t vote they can and should add it. It doesn’t have to be a second campaign. It could be IN all of them.

  62. 62.

    Spanky

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’ve started getting emails from Eric Holder’s new voting rights group, but I forget what it’s called.

    Hmmm. Sounds like they have a branding problem. And no, I haven’t a clue what it is, either.

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    @trollhattan:

    “If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law,” [Moore] added. “If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?”

    SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!1!

    Or…just another example of the paranoid style in American politics at work…

  66. 66.

    Scott

    Some needs to ask Moore if he thinks Mormons are real Christians. Then relay his answer to Lee.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    Donors, even small donors. could insist upon it. Every year you-all are freaking out about voter suppression and looking to federal courts for relief but that’s just one piece. When you donate ask if the campaign has a dedicated piece on voting process. It doesn’t have to be the national expert on voting rights litigation. It can be a pollworker from the precinct or just someone who is willing to read the rules. Every year people tell me “I’m a felon so I can’t vote” Yes they can! In Ohio they can!

  70. 70.

    Kay

    When Trump says people like him (which he says every day in endless ways) I think he believes that. He thinks he’s incredibly great so he’s baffled when the soldier’s mother is like “GOD, what a asshole!”

    It’s part of what makes it so horrible because you’ve seen that in real life, I’m sure, where there’s just this gaping hole between a person’s perception of themselves and how they’re received. It’s awful. That’s his life every day, like 20 times a day.

  71. 71.

    germy

    @Spanky:

    Trump is gonna nominate him for SCOTUS, right?

    Is he on the list the Federalist Society handed him? If so, then yes. If not, then no.

  72. 72.

    gbbalto

    @trollhattan: The Code says “should,” not “shall,” even for the military. Moore MUST know the difference. He’s betting that his audience either doesn’t know the difference or won’t bother to look up the Code.

  74. 74.

    catclub

    @gene108:

    Get 15%-20% of white people to vote for Democrats and you flip Alabama.

    What was really bewildering about Trump winning 46% of the vote was not that in itself, but that his vote fraction wasn’t more like 20%.

    I think the number in Mississippi is about 16-17% of white voters. In other words, white voters in MIss. are nearly as divided by party as black voters in the entire US.

  75. 75.

    germy

    Bannon Backs Kelli Ward Over Jeff Flake in Arizona

    Ward is a former physician, state legislator, and failed Senate candidate who’s best known for holding a town hall on “chemtrails,” and reacting to the news of John McCain’s brain cancer by calling on him to step down and give her his job.

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    @rikyrah:
    Good timing! Funny how going back to an archaic system equals progress, but we celebrate the victories whatever form they may take.

  78. 78.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Well if the Russians have to get involved to keep the crazy train going in Alabama of all places then there must something to that poll and it’s sign that the Republican “I am the biggest twat of the caucus” game is reaching it limits.

    Normally Moore should win in Alabama, never mind the man actually chews on his shoes, Trump turning everything to shit is upsetting that. It’s hard to believe the majority of conservatives in this country are so depraved they would tolerate selling the country out to the Russians and voting Dem is their only option to stop that so sooner or later they are going to have to.. It’s probably among conservatives it’s like Senate were they all loath what’s going in private and in public are desperate to not be the first one to speak out against it.

    So maybe that 11% will break in Jones’ favor because things are that bad.

  80. 80.

    catclub

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    It’s hard to believe the majority of conservatives in this country are so depraved they would tolerate selling the country out to the Russians and voting Dem is their only option to stop that so sooner or later they are going to have to..

    I sure wish that was true. But hearing all the people saying they feared that if Hillary were elected it was the end of the US. I have serious doubts they will ever come to your conclusion.

  81. 81.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Sounds like a great idea to me. Here in FL, Gov. Scott and the wingnut super-majority in the state legislature have thrown up tons of roadblocks to stop people from voting, shortening the early voting window, making it virtually impossible for ex-felons to get their right to vote back, purging inactive voters on the down-low, etc.

    The GOP-controlled Dept. of State also makes it hard for volunteers to register people. They impose huge fines if paperwork isn’t turned in within 48 hours, for example, which initially prompted the League of Women Voters to get out of the registration business.

    The state rolled out an online registration site late last month under duress, but it requires a driver license and social, which isn’t the same as the paper system. The League may sue over that.

    Anyhoo — yes, we should be TEAM VOTER.

  82. 82.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan:

    “If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law,” [Moore] added. “If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?”

    Indeed Mr Moore, the next thing you know people will be wipping thier backsides on the Constitution and trying to replace it with some list some old loon who lives in a tent in the desert says the voices told him to write down.

  83. 83.

    ET

    Oh my how the worm turns. A school in Jackson, Mississippi is changing it name from (Jeff) Davis Magnet International Baccalaureate World School to be named after Obama. The change is good in any case, but changing to be named after an African American President is even better. And it is happening in Mississippi.

  84. 84.

    martian

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Republicans always come home. Was it Kay who said that way back in olden times before Trump got close enough to steal it?

    But this is worth the fight even if we’re almost sure to lose. Otherwise, how will we ever convince people that Democrats will fight for them if we back away when the fight looks hard? Southern Democrats deserve more than Moore. They deserve to have their voices heard, especially in a race against a raging, theocratic, old seg. We stand fast against Moore with everything we’ve got, or we really stand for nothing at all.

  85. 85.

    No Drought No More

    So it’s come to this: John C. Calhoun, Jefferson Davis, Huey Long, Strom Thurmond, Foghorn Leghorn, Jethro Bodine, and now, Roy Moore. It would take a William Faulkner on bad acid to explain today’s South and how it got there. Frankly, I don’t much give a damn what makes those birdbrains tick. I’m sick and tired of their backward ways. I care nothing about their political sensibilities, beyond how best to suppress them at the ballot box by overwhelming them with opposition votes. I want to see them stripped of power, and scattered to the electoral four winds.

    Then again, I’d also like to see at least one flying pig once before I die, too.

    To all un-birdbrain Southerners, may you prosper. You are behind enemy lines.

  86. 86.

    Jeffro

    Btw Josh Marshall over at TPM is getting increasingly shrill…he’s just a step or two shy of being a full-on Balloon Juicer at this point…

  87. 87.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @catclub:

    I sure wish that was true. But hearing all the people saying they feared that if Hillary were elected it was the end of the US. I have serious doubts they will ever come to your conclusion.

    During the election everyone was ignore it or projecting it on to Hillary, now it’s in their face and what are they going to do? Their entire self worth is based on the idea that being an American is something special and being a Russian poodle doesn’t do that.

  89. 89.

    mai naem mobile

    @ET: I hope they have lots of security cameras and good security because some dumbass confederate flag nuts will try something.

  90. 90.

    Roger Moore

    @Boatboy_srq:

    Wasn’t there a time when doing some other country’s dirty work to undermine The Republic was somehow vaguely unpatriotic?

    Always. That’s why the Republicans are so angry at the Democrats for taking Soros money to undermine the country by bringing in Muslim terrorists. Meanwhile, any means, fair or foul, are acceptable to carry on the good, patriotic work of keeping the darkies in line.

  91. 91.

    Turgidson

    @Archon:

    The only aspect of libertarianism the proclaimed adherents really, truly believe in is the “I got mine fuck you” part of the platform. The civil liberties stuff is dispensable when tax cuts and deregulation are within reach.

  92. 92.

    trollhattan

    @ET:
    Good for them. Here’s hoping they hire off-hour security so that mysterious fire “we can’t hardly figure out where it come from” doesn’t occur.

  97. 97.

    d58826

    So according to Roger Goodall standing for the national anthem is an important part of the game. I wonder how many yards the anthem gains per carry? I have seen the flag run some great post patterns when the game is on the line.

    In a nut shell he is simply piling it on with a very large shovel.

  99. 99.

    jl

    @Turgidson: Many libertarians are into tribal authoritarian power fantasies. The very logical ‘analysis’ of economics and public policy consists of them fantasizing about how great it would be if they could do whatever they want with their stuff with no responsibility or accountability to anybody or anything at all. When that line of personal fantasy piddles out, they will go with giving the power to push people around to whatever tribe or team that they identity with. It’s a sad spectacle, and when they wield power, a dangerous one. I think much of libertarian though in the US, certainly most of what is called ‘glibertarianism’ is a hidden form of brutal and mindless authoritarianism.

    Some more respectable proponents, like some of the relatively high minded (for libertarianism) folks at , say, Reason, will swerve into rationality with respect to, say, police power, in order to avoid laughable hypocrisy. But they never make it their high priorities. Lots of talk and outrage, but they’ll never do much about it. Never make it a really high policy priority. Protecting the right of the powerful to push people around is always higher on their action list.

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    O/T Business plan fail.

    An Illinois couple was busted at a motel for allegedly trying to sell a cache of firearms—including three homemade assault weapons.

    Authorities cuffed Cara L. Anderson and Shawn C. Holland last week at the Motel 6 in Caseyville, about 10 miles east of St. Louis.

    The lovebirds stayed at their lodging-turned-gun show for three weeks before a tip led to their arrests, according to St. Clair County Sheriff Rick Watson.

    On Oct. 11, deputies executing a search warrant discovered multiple assault rifles and handguns, along with silencers and a copy of the “AR-15 to M-16 Conversion Book.” They also found a bulletproof vest, thousands of rounds of loose rifle ammunition, and 38 fully-loaded 30-round .223 magazines.

    Granted, Motel 6 doesn’t have the cachet of a Vegas monster-hotel but is it really a good time to pack an arsenal into your motel room? How many trips from the parking lot did that take, anyway?

  103. 103.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Their entire self worth is based on the idea that being an American is something special and being a Russian poodle doesn’t do that.

    If you substitute ‘white’ for ‘American’, then it makes perfect sense. Since that’s the case, I suggest that when they say ‘American’, they have always meant ‘white.’

    @Turgidson:

    The civil liberties stuff is dispensable when tax cuts and deregulation are within reach.

    Given the chance, they usually go for all the cultural conservatism they can vote for. I will never forget that the Kochs ran the Tea Party, and the Tea Party picked extreme, lunatic religious conservatives over libertarians 3/4ths of the time.

  104. 104.

    PVDMichael

    The same law that say you should stand for the National Anthem says you shouldn’t make clothes out of the flag. I trust Roy Moore wants every real ‘murkin wearing a flag bandana headpiece arrested, right?

  105. 105.

    jl

    @PVDMichael: The law says that you should stand for the National Anthem, I have to assume that applied only to people who are present where the Anthem is played. Until money started trading hands for patriotic displays to promote the military ten or so years ago, the NFL didn’t even care where they players were. The often were doing things in the locker rooms. That is my understanding.

    So, this whole issue is a sad corrupt farce, IMHO.

    Edit: anyway, this law, to the extent it means anything at all, is much more directly applicable to people who show their patriotism by parading around in flag skivvies and swim suit bottoms and tank tops, so I agree with your point.

  106. 106.

    louc

    Some observations as someone who has the misfortune to have family in Alabama:
    1. There are actually more Dems than you think,and not just African Americans. B’ham elected a gay woman as a state leg. The suburbs around B’ham and in Huntsville are diversifying tremendously. Huntsville, same thing.
    2. That said, it’s still a backwards state with putrid racism.
    3. The Christian Coalition nationwide is a cesspool but it’s worse in AL. An R governor 15 years ago proposed a reasonable tax reform to revise the regressive nature of state’s tax system where lumber holders paid next to nothing because of the way the property tax is set up while poor people have to shell out lots of their income the state charges income tax for a family of 4 with an income of $4,500. The CC lied to rural, black voters in radio ads claiming their property taxes would go up 400%. The Dems did not cooperate with the Republican governor in campaigning for the tax system when a referendum to repeal the tax reforms took it to the ballot (IIRC, one of the houses was controlled by Ds at the time). So it went down in flames.

    Did I say how much I hate the CC? True story: I was flying to B’ham to visit family and had the misfortune of a couple of CC lobbyists sitting next to me talking about how people in Jesus’s day didn’t pay property taxes or somesuch as Biblical justification for campaigning against it. I think I wounded my tongue biting it so much on that flight.

  107. 107.

    jl

    @louc: I spent time along Gulf Coast of MS and AL, and met many very impressive liberal and progressive people. I guess that is a different country than upstate.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    @jl: Alabama’s coastal and educated elites, no?

    And, oh Dog — Biloxi is coastal Mississippi — not Alabama.

    Sorry, Alabama. My bad. Mobile in the ALA. Twas Mississippi that is having problems with Harper Lee’s fine book. Although, for all we know, it was never even ON the Alabama school reading list.

  110. 110.

    justsomeguy

    In general Democrats have to lead polls by at least 5% to actually win. Not sure if all of the below apply to Alabama, but I bet most of them do.

    1. “cleansing” of voter rolls. (and routine lack of adjudicating and tabulating provisional ballots)

    2. HUGE amounts of people that can not vote due to purposeful mis-allocation of voting machines. Can’t wait on a 3 hour line
    because they have to get to work or get home.

    3. Lack of early and mail-in voting

    4. ex-cons unable to vote

    The ONLY election issue that the Dems talk about is gerrymandering. Yes, it costs some seats in the House, but it had no impact on the 2016 Presidential (or gubernatorial) results – while the above items DID.

    Some other electoral issues on a national/Presidential level :
    A debate committee that is controlled by partisan D’s and R’s and excludes third party candidates. A lack of proportional
    representation. Lack of ranked voting. Easily hacked electronic machines whose results are not auditable. The electoral college.

    For the above reasons (and I could add some others), the US does not have a functioning and valid electoral system, and the Dems are not a valid political party due to their failure to even talk about these issues.

  111. 111.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    People there, and elsewhere, are very comfortable with their racism and religious fervor.

    Religious fervor, yes, but I don’t buy it about the racism. Racism is still a bad word to most Americans. That’s why racists work so hard to define it so anyone* who is not literally wearing KKK robes or a Nazi arm band isn’t a racist. I think that was the real genius of the Lee Atwater/Ronald Reagan approach; they came up with excuses that gave racists plausible deniability.

    *Any white person expressing their negative opinion about non-whites, that is. We all know blacks are the real racists.

  112. 112.

    Chyron HR

    @justsomeguy:

    the Dems are not a valid political party due to their failure to even talk about these issues.

    That’s funny, considering that the True Progressive dogma is that Democrats ONLY lose because they aren’t offering the democratic socialist policies that the White Working Class Republican voters secretly yearn for, and that attempting to address ANY other issues is “making excuses”. Maybe you should get back to us when the Messiah of Vermont deigns to acknowledge any of those issues, including gerrymandering.

  113. 113.

    JustRuss

    Not sure what to make of the 11% undecided. On one hand, you have to think anyone who’s not a fervent Moore supporter would notice he’s a horrible tool and vote against him. On the other hand, Alabama.

  114. 114.

    Roger Moore

    @gbbalto:

    Moore MUST know the difference.

    You sure about that? Nothing in his judicial career indicates he had great knowledge of the law.

  115. 115.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @ET: Jackson is a black city ringed by white suburbs, like a lot of other places in the US. I believe the actual residents of Jackson are in favor of the name change, whatever their neighbors out in the ‘burbs think.

  116. 116.

    jl

    @Roger Moore:

    ” That’s why racists work so hard to define it so anyone* who is not literally wearing KKK robes or a Nazi arm band isn’t a racist. ”

    That line seems to be crumbling with the alt-righters, Bannonistas, and Trumpsits. Maybe there will be consequences? I hope so.

  117. 117.

    jl

    @Elizabelle: Also, i have worked with a few very smart and rational people from MS and Al colleges and universities, most of with are not on the Gulf Coast, but more upstate, So, I just can’t join in the usual ridicule of those states. But obviously I am working from a biased sample.

    Most of the ‘conservatives’ I met on the Gulf Coast were party hardy good life yahoo rednecks, and business people. The rednecks seemed to be happy as long as the powers that be gave them the resources to have fun. The business people were mostly pretty pragmatic. Maybe the Bible thumpers among them knew to keep it under wraps. I guess those two groups are a biased sample too.

  118. 118.

    Roger Moore

    @jl:

    That line seems to be crumbling with the alt-righters, Bannonistas, and Trumpsits. Maybe there will be consequences?

    Just so long as the consequence isn’t rehabilitating racism.

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    Religious fervor, yes, but I don’t buy it about the racism. Racism is still a bad word to most Americans.

    People in Alabama ain’t American. Lee Atwater and Reagan have been dead a long time. Open displays of racism is becoming normal. Most racists have never been shy about their bigotry, except when dealing with dull liberals.

  121. 121.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Brachiator:

    People in Alabama ain’t American. Lee Atwater and Reagan have been dead a long time. Open displays of racism is becoming normal. Most racists have never been shy about their bigotry, except when dealing with dull liberals.

    That’s why you have to be up in their faces about it. Shout them down and humiliate them. Call them worthless pieces of shit right in their faces. Show them that “open displays of rascism” have consequences.

  122. 122.

    jonas

    @germy:

    Fox is trying to inspire The Base to rush out and defeat Jones.

    I agree. But it also means they definitely don’t see this as a slam dunk and are getting nervous.

  125. 125.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: He has two pieces up, “Trump is Poison” and “Trump Is Poison part 2”

    I’m like, no he’s not, he’s Shit Midas, Josh!!

  126. 126.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Adam L Silverman: Right. The Discover card, which promised cash back bonuses once a year. When I got married in 1990, I bought my wife a new oven and vacuum cleaner from Sears. One year later, I got my cash back bonus check in the mail. I tore the envelope open, eager to see how much I was going to get back. The check was for

    Forty.
    Nine.
    Cents.

    It was the last time I used that crap card.

  128. 128.

    J R in WV

    OK, now. I feel better already. I hit Doug Jones’s campaign up with a weekly donation, not huge, but every week until December 12th. Might help, can’t hurt.

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