I know a lot of our readers and commenters are not fans of President George W. Bush. But he has just finished giving a speech at a George W Bush Presidential Center event in New York. For those wondering where our living former presidents were and if/when they would find their voices and speak out in regard to what is going on in the US and the world, here is one example. The video is below and is set to start when he starts speaking. President Bush (43) took the opportunity of this address to speak truth to those currently holding power in the US.
Open thread!
ruemara
I’m glad a republican is saying it. I wish progressive betters currently filling their time with articles on what Hillary and Obama should say were asking what republicans in office and out of office should be saying.
dedc79
With a few notable exceptions, W’s words/speeches were generally alright. His actions were far more problematic.
Adam L Silverman
@dedc79: It was an “is our presidents learning” kind of problem.
Corner Stone
The blurb I saw was pretty good. But then I remembered that Trump went to South Carolina and blamed Bush for 9/11 and a whole raft of shit talking, and was rewarded for it. So we’ll see what, if any, traction this straightforward speech gets.
ETA, so I was typing and I misspelled the word “what”. It was wat and had the little redline under it. I right clicked and none of the choices were “what” to correct it. How could “what” not be a choice for wat?
schrodingers_cat
I was never a W fan but compared to the malevolent toddler W looks positively wonderful.
geg6
I never in a million years could have predicted that I’d say this, but good for W. A voice of sanity in the GOP.
Now I have to go wash my hands off after typing that.
NotMax
What’s the old saying again?
Oh yes: Day late and a dollar short.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Try “whut”.
Rosalita
@schrodingers_cat:
Rosalita
Blockquote fail
The Moar You Know
The ex-president who needs to go to war against Trump is not Obama, because not one Republican will listen to anything the black man has to say.
It’s this guy.
And Christ, it’s not like W is any kind of master of the English language, but he sounds like William Shakespeare compared to President You Tube Comments Section.
jeffreyw
Are transcripts available yet? Quick search of the venue site yielded none, my Google-Fu is not strong.
Matt McIrvin
Just remember that W’s body count was very high and his ability to sound sane contributed to it. We have yet to see if Trump will kill as many people on balance, though I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
bobbo
Please. He helped pave the way for this nightmare.
schrodingers_cat
@Matt McIrvin: The # of dead in PR have not be tallied yet. He is treating PR like the British treated India or Ireland.
catclub
@dedc79:
So far, in terms of dead people caused by stupid presidential decicisions, Bush is thousands of times worse than Trump.
… But will Trump catch up?
slag
Uh no. The 2000 election, Fire-in-the-Hole Dick Cheney, Reality-Based Community Karl Rove, Known Knowns Donald Rumsfeld, 9/11, Mission Accomplished, Bad Apples John Yoo, Katrina…
Donald Trump is not an aberration–he’s an extension.
schrodingers_cat
@bobbo: True but the rot started a long time before W was on the scene. And his speaking up is a good thing.
schrodingers_cat
@catclub: Yes if given a chance. His warmongers are itching to start a feud with Iran.
catclub
@Corner Stone:
A thousand questions is a kilowut.
dedc79
@catclub: Yeah, only time will tell. At this point in W’s term, we were 6 weeks past 9/11 and the “Operation Enduring Freedom” was just underway.
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: Don’t forget the Virgin Islands. They have 100% no power. PR is getting all the attention but those USVI people are in trouble too.
NotMax
The very title is an offense.
A Venn diagram of truth and Dubya’s mouth would have scant, if any, overlap.
Yutsano
@ruemara: Have a friend helping on St Croix and his past report was 14% electricity and the potable water was coming from the support/cruise ships docked. It’s pretty bad.
schrodingers_cat
Adam, I have a query.
What do you know about the army’s decision to stop GC holders from enlisting. What is the rationale and purpose behind this. Is this a long term or short term policy. Is it legal?
Gator90
DJT is W without the intellect, eloquence, honesty and compassion.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: To T and his minions all of us who are not white men are lesser people.
trollhattan
It matters a whole lot more what W says than any Democrat, Obama included, because it defuses 90% of the predictable defenses against his positions. Now, I suppose he gets accused of either creeping dementia or RINOism. I wonder what Roberts and Alito think.
Ian G.
If we were willing to be allies with Stalin to stop Hitler, I’m willing to be allies with GWB to stop Cheez Whiz Ceausescu.
No Drought No More
GW Bush is a lying motherfucker that led America to war under false pretenses. Anything he has to say about anything is meaningless for that reason, even when he parrots good, truthful words. Those he bamboozles into cutting him slack should ask themselves if they would be likewise impressed had he read from the Bible the the day he ordered the War in Iraq to commence, and mouthed the words “thou shalt not kill”. GW is a motherfucking low life killer of American troops, albeit one who’s never gotten his own hands dirty. If he kicks before I do, I’ll piss on his grave.
Amir Khalid
@dedc79:
I agree.
YouTube video has been very slow to load today at least for me. Too many long pauses for buffering. Has anyone else noticed this?
trollhattan
@catclub:
Well played–one golf clap awarded.
rikyrah
Lawd Hammercy.
Dubya speaks.
trollhattan
@Ian G.: If I have to hold my nose in order for Trump to be kicked in the balls then by golly, nose held.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
THIS. Republicans created and promoted and empowered Trump. He’s their responsibility. Obama and Hillary warned us over and over again in 2016 that Trump was dangerous, and our progressive betters decided that they knew better. Thanks a lot, assholes.
SuzieC
@Ian G.:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Bill
“Bigotry or white supremacy of any form is blasphemy against the American creed,” says that guy who rode anti-gay marriage referendums in to the White House.
It’s important he’s saying these things. But he needs to accept his responsibility for his role in what’s happening. Rove’s monster doesn’t get a pass because he’s now opposed to Nazis marching in the streets.
schrodingers_cat
So aspiring warmonger stops transgendered and GC holders from enlisting and wants to start hostilities from N. Korea to Iran. What gives. This is like tax cuts making us richer. Decreasing enlistment and starting wars, is to keep us safe,
MJS
Can’t watch at work, but unless Bush mentioned Trump by name, and identified specific actions Trump has taken or words he has said that Bush takes issue with, it will be meaningless.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: There appears to be two different things going on. The first, which is sort of buried in the article I saw at MIC, is that the actual change of policy is no one with a green card goes to boot until the background check is completed. This is bad, given the backlog. The second, which got all the attention at the beginning of the article, is that the Guard Bureau seems to have misinterpreted this and issued guidance that no one even can ascend to the NG with a green card.
The Services have to follow whatever legal instructions they’re given from the President. If the new policy of the US is that green card holders are not permitted to serve in the US military, then until/unless a court rules that unconstitutional, what Stephen Miller wants and the President will sign is going to be the policy. And I guarantee that the guidance on this came out of Miller’s shop.
NotMax
Can’t help but suspect deep down this is the beginning of a concerted effort to begin re-burnishing the name and lay the groundwork for selling the next generation of the family (cough – George P..G. cough) as some sort of ‘rational alternative.’
Mike in NC
Who could ever have imagined a time when the country missed Dubya?
MJS
@Bill: Paraphrasing George Costanza, remember, it’s not bigotry if your God, through the religious right, tells you it’s not bigotry.
Mike in Pasadena
@Gator90: Now THAT is funny.
trollhattan
@NotMax: God help us. Although I think we can take some comfort in JEB!’s epic fail.
satby
@SuzieC: maybe not friend, but arms length ally might be ok.
JPL
@No Drought No More: Half of me says good for him, but the other half, remembers the harm he brought to our country. Ed Gillespie is running a trump type of campaign, and Bush is helping him. It’s one thing to preach unity, and another to campaign for a candidate who is running a scaremonger campaign.
Miss Bianca
@NotMax: The sad truth of the matter is, whatever our feelings about the Bush family, that ANY Bush would be a ‘rational alternative’ compared to Donald Trump. Even Millie the cocker spaniel .
MattF
I”m not a fan of GWB. His administration included Rove and Cheney– arguably the two of the very worst people in American politics, pre-Trump. And he chose them. And… why, exactly, did we go to war in Iraq?
Sigh. That said, it looks like he learned some things from his experience as President, and I have to be in favor of that, given the alternative.
JPL
I wonder how George feels about Roy Moore. Has he disavowed him? For me actions speak louder than words.
NotMax
@trollhattan
JEB! ought to bequeath his bladder to the Smithsonian.
It must be of epic dimensions to be able to piss away a hundred million dollars.
JMG
@Miss Bianca: Best of the lot, she’d be.
ruemara
@Adam L Silverman: It’s a shit policy interpretation and I think the ACLU is prepping to file suit. Speaking as a green card holder, I GODDAMNED WELL TOLD PROGRESSIVES THIS SHIT SHOW WOULD AFFECT EVEN LEGAL ALIENS. But neoliberal incrementalism bad yadda fucking yadda just voting for legal weed.
@NotMax: I literally do not give a flying fuck about GWB and his legacy or polishing or whatever holdover anger I’m supposed to have about him. There’s a much bigger issue going on. If GWB is using his public speaking time to push for patriotism to this country and against white nationalism, then I can shiv him later. He’s doing more than the Sanders Institute and the Unity Commission.
chopper
hate bush with the red-hot intensity of a thousand suns, but if he’s willing to cock-punch the shitgibbon a few times I’m willing to stand back and watch the injuries pile up.
Miss Bianca
@JMG: Certainly the nicest and least likely to do any lasting damage to the body politic. The furniture, I dunno…
@ruemara: Yeah, with you on that one. I personally feel like “the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, too”, but in this case, rooting for injuries feels…dare I say it… positively patriotic?
Betty Cracker
Longest GWB speech I’ve listened to in a while. My disdain for the man is like riding a bicycle; I didn’t forget!
I thought the clearest of the oblique denunciations of Trump came when Bush mentioned bullying and the breakdown of civic norms. The broadside against anti-globalism and white supremacy could have just as well referred to the Bannonites who are supposedly warring with the establishment for the shriveled turd that is allegedly Trump’s soul.
FlipYrWhig
@JPL: Gillespie is a sack of shit but he’s not running a Trump campaign, he’s running a Willie Horton-flag burning-Ground Zero Mosque-ebola campaign of the sort Republicans did long before Trump and will continue to do long after him.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Progressives warned you all what a horrible candidate Hillary was…but you knew better. In fact, we were told time and again we weren’t even needed. Schumer smugly reassured everyone there would be a 2 to 1 gain of moderate Republicans for every progressive vote lost.
Hillary’s sky high negative poll ratings coupled with how she helped mobilize the opposition were a prescription for disaster. Most people saw that, except for those with “Her Turn” stars in their eyes.
It cannot be repeated enough that Team Hillary made Donnie Two Scoops their preferred Pied Piper candidate as they were convinced beating him would be a cakewalk…though I think this FACT was incredibly left out of “What Happened.”
Grouse all you want to about the Cheeto Benito, but make no mistake, he is your creation.
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: And the reaction from right-wingers will be “it’s The Establishment trying to ride to the rescue! We hate them!”
Miss Bianca
@LanceThruster: Has anybody told you to FUCK OFF, CHOAD today yet? No? Consider it done, then.
NotMax
@ruemara
If and when he demonstrates a commitment by deed to walk the walk and not just talk the talk would I even begin to consider he is not hand-in-glove with the worst elements of the Republican party.
Until such time I will cut him no slack. None.
ruemara
@NotMax: Did I say cut him some slack?
FlipYrWhig
@LanceThruster: I can’t believe there wasn’t some kind of preliminary competition where the people who liked Hillary Clinton and the people who didn’t like Hillary Clinton because she wasn’t liberal enough could indicate their preferences and see which was a greater number. We should really do that next time, maybe staggered state by state.
Adam L Silverman
@ruemara: Why are you yelling at me? I don’t think it’s a good idea. I’m not in favor of it. And I think letting 32 year old white supremacists with a history of dishonesty and demagoguery direct domestic policy, and center all domestic policy around his personal peeves such as anyone who isn’t white being in the US, is not just stupid, but is strategic malpractice. The refugee cap for this year being exhibit A.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Ah, good morning, comrade. Though I suppose it’s good evening for you given what time it is in Moscow. They certainly make you guys work late, don’t they?
You looked at white supremacy in action and decided, I’m a white guy, it’s not going to hurt me. And now you wonder why people are pissed at you for “voting your conscience” when it’s obvious that your “conscience” didn’t tell you that people who were not straight white men like yourself were going to be hurt the worst.
But keep huffing that white supremacy that the Russians are feeding you via Robert Parry and keep telling yourself that Black, Latina, and LGBT people are all just whiners who don’t understand that only a straight white man like yourself feels real pain.
Fair Economist
This is exhibit A in “Republican can always get worse.” It’s a general rule that the Republican monster of one generation become the “well, he wasn’t TOO bad” of the next. The most frightening part is that it probably applies to Trump as well. Likely the next Republican presidential candidate will be an even more explicit racist and fascist.
ruemara
@LanceThruster: Fuck off, you scabrous dick mite. Your candidate was horrible, with his rape fantasy writings, his archaic views of race and women’s rights. And he lost like a one-legged jack rabbit in a marathon during the primaries. Because all his much vaunted progressive policies were pipe dreams and his great organizing experience was limited to desegregating dorms in college. In the ’60’s. He’s trifling ass mediocre piss pot in artfully rumpled clothes. His wife is his fall guy for influence peddling and he’s got all the mental acumen of the completely unchallenged male. He was and still is the worst candidate, much like his mirror counterpart in the Oval Office.
@Adam L Silverman: If you think that’s yelling, I don’t know what to tell you because it’s neither yelling nor directed at you.
hilts
@Adam L Silverman:
Adam, thanks for posting this. Every single day since the inauguration, Donald Trump has provided new evidence by statements and actions that he is the lowest form of humanity to occupy the White House. Ever so slowly, a fraction of Republicans are waking up to the fact that Trump is an unrepentant neanderthal.
Hopefully, Dems can win back both chambers of Congress in 2018 and Mueller’s report will have a sufficiently smoking gun that will result in the impeachment and conviction of our Orange Sphincter in Chief.
SatanicPanic
@Matt McIrvin: yeah, I have made this case before and been yelled at for it- but I’d rather be a live American under Trump than a dead Iraqi or New Orleans resident under GWB. Until Trump manages to bungle things that badly, GWB is still the worst president of my lifetime, even if he is a functioning human (which Trump is not).
scav
This strikes me more as the next overt stage of the Power to Power infighting between factions of the Party formerly known as Great. The Orange Magnificence and assorted minions will find in it justification for their it all needs to be burnt down destructive impulses and the traditionalist will use it it to further feather their cacoon of how they’re really not like that, it all has nothing simply nothing to really do with them. Not much will practically change.
Fair Economist
Remember trolls often get paid extra based on the number of responses before you reply to them.
NotMax
And … another thread being derailed.
SatanicPanic
@LanceThruster: Shut up stupid.
Psych1
@LanceThruster: She can’t hear you, her mind is way more twisted than her knee.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
Didn’t you know? People of color, LGBTQ people, and women need a straight white man to tell us what’s good for us. That’s why they wanted the DNC to void all of the votes for Hillary and coronate their Straight White Personal Jesus. Because only a straight white man can save us.
White supremacist “progressives” lost their damn minds when Obama was elected and disproved their deepest beliefs, and now they’re doubling down on their white supremacy with Putin’s gleeful assistance.
Now watch LT hold up his Nina Turner action figure to claim he’s totally not a white supremacist, he just prefers Black women who subordinate themselves to straight white men. It’s adorable when he does that.
Kay
I’m pissed at the elites. Too little, too late. We give these people a kind of exalted status and I don’t feel we’re getting much value out of them if a reality tv show star can bring the whole thing crashing down.
God almighty- who knew we’d be relying on such a bunch of sad sacks. They STILL think they’re gonna reason with him?
Fat fucking chance. It’ll take an indictment and he may not even obey that.
Adam L Silverman
@ruemara: All caps and bold… Nope, can’t understand why I’d take that as you yelling at me.
Bill
Side note: Can someone start a sub-blog for posters who want to refight the Sanders v Clinton primary in every fucking thread? Jesus Christ this gets old.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: You should start your citizenship application as soon as you can. Before you can fight for others you need to take care of yourself. Before Steven Miller gets around to monkeying with the naturalization process.
I kinda figured out after T was elected that they would attack LPRs sooner or later.
ETA: I am sorry if I am coming across as too preachy. I am concerned.
MJS
@LanceThruster: Of course, there is the little problem of the certainty that while Hillary lost the electoral vote, the candidate who ran in the Democratic primary, but was not then and is not now an actual Democrat would have been trounced both in the electoral college and the popular vote. Or do you believe all the nonsense about “economic anxiety” bringing this particular iteration of Nazis to power?
BC in Illinois
In reply to @Ian G.:
(and others)
Winston Churchill
My attitude toward W and DJT is “Let’s you and him fight.”
And then hope that the GOP has to choose sides.
It will not be the GOP–former or current–that sets this country on the right path. But whatever a McCain or W can say that raises questions among GOP minds [ i.e., non-enquiring minds ], this is a good thing.
Kay
The Bush Family have NO power in the GOP? They’re reduced to begging the moron not to blow up the world?
Boy, were they oversold as Masters of the Universe. What a rip-off. You know, in return for gifting them the top strata of society status one would think they’d exercise some of that clout and save the country from this maniac, but they do nothing.
The Women’s March protesters were more effective in cowing Trump and they’re nobodies.
Spanky
The good news is that this is sure to draw fire from the shitgibbon, thereby drawing return fire from Dubya’s supporters.
It’s OK to root for injuries.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: “Scabrous dick mite” — now, that’s a keeper! :)
cokane
ehh… bush paved the way for this bullshit. you can draw a straight line from “taking a knee disrespects our troops” to “you’re either with us or against us”
bush campaigned on paranoia of foreigners, ran an incompetent government, and made craven concessions to religious zealots. i mean how is it different? only big difference, is trump hasn’t yet (and may never) launch a needless war that kills hundreds of thousands and wastes untold billions of dollars.
sorry, bush and his r allies hate trump’s rudeness, but that’s it.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: So it is all about otherizing immigrants. What’s next. What will be the yellow star equivalent for the foreign born.
ETA: Where does Mattis stand on all this and why is Miller making DoD strategy.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Matt McIrvin:
Trump would never get involved in a shooting war because it would draw attention away from the reality TV show he’s turned the presidency into. That’s not the same as benovolence or better policy.
trollhattan
@Psych1:
Hey look, a sock puppet.
Do they need to use two keyboards or what? How do they keep the IDs separate?*
*Should not be construed as an actual question, nor asking whether their keyboards are QWERTY or Cyrillic?
cokane
@Bill: seriously, it’s getting old. the two wouldnt even have been that different — in campaign or in office. dont understand how you can support one and hate the other
Mnemosyne
@Psych1:
Greetings, comrade! How is the weather in Vladivostok in this season?
I do love it when straight white guys decide to lecture women about how much better they understand women’s issues than mere women do. Or decide that they understand the problems that immigrants face better than actual immigrants do.
Enjoy your cup of self-righteousness! After all, you’ll never actually be harmed by your decisions. In fact, watching other people suffer gives you that a nice, cozy sense of self-righteousness that you just can’t do without.
Just One More Canuck
@Adam L Silverman: Ruemara was yelling at progressives for their blind hatred of Hillary – she wasn’t yelling at you.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: FWIW Psych1 seems to be LT’s sock puppet. BTW how is the knee.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m not sure why you’re taking it personally. ? Yes, this is one instance when you should take it as a group and assume she didn’t mean you personally.
Psych1
@Bill: Problem is the Bernie-haters are a big problem for the future of this country. And they are a small, but very vocal group here. The good news is they will eventually be rejected by the more sane.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t think they are a driving force. Noisy online and on Twitter but not all that many votes. At this point I think most of the anti-Obama voices are paid agents for conservatives or Russians.
El Caganer
@Fair Economist: The next Republican presidential candidate will be feted by the MSM if he/she/it is able to stand upright occasionally.
Mnemosyne
@BC in Illinois:
I want to marry this comment. Don’t tell my husband. ?
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Wilmeristas like you keep accusing Hillary and her supporters of continually relitigating 2016. Yet here you are, bringing it up in a thread about something else altogether: W criticising Trump in all but name for his bigotry, nativism, abdication of America’s role in the world order, and disregard for free speech. Hillary’s failings as a candidate were minor compared to Bernie’s — which, I remind you, included a total lack of preparation for the job of POTUS. Her flaws have nothing to do with Trump’s as a human being or a President.
Mike J
10 minutes until the earthquake[1] hits Seattle.
[1] Simulated.
rp
Complaining about Bush is really pointless. Yes, of course he was a horrible president and paved the way for Trump, but that makes his criticism more powerful, not less. I don’t care what he did before or what his motives are now, if he helps undermine Trump and the GOP he’s useful. (re his motives, I don’t think he’s a great guy or anything, but he’s not a sociopath like Trump, and it’s very possible that he feels genuine remorse for what he’s done and has grown as a person.)
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
The knee is getting better, slowly. I see my regular doctor tomorrow to see if I need physical therapy or an orthopedist. I’m still icing it constantly, and that helps.
Also, I just sent you an email with a question.
trollhattan
@Psych1:
Problem is the Bernie-
hatersphiliacs are a big problem for the future of this country. And they are a small, but very vocal grouphereeverywhere I’m told to appear. The good news is they will eventually be rejected by the more sane.cokane
@rp: this is an attitude i take issue with, though. Trump’s boorishness and personal character are so outrageous that i think it’s outshining some important things. the republican party right now — as a whole — is deeply problematic. the party as is, is guaranteed to be a major threat on so many fronts regardless of which of its members is president.
Fair Economist
@rp: Yeah, politics is all about working with people you despise to get good stuff done. Stalin won WWII. President Jackson was a monster, but he helped stop the Nullification Crisis. If W is helping slap down Trump, it behooves us to work with him. For now.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
Your reply is spot on.
We are in a massive crsis situation and whatever helps pull us out has got to be an improvement.
SatanicPanic
@rp: This is a nice counterpoint. I’ll give this some thought.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Miller has managed to subvert the Interagency process in regards to all things involving immigration. This article has the details:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-stephen-miller-single-handedly-got-the-us-to-accept-fewer-refugees
I doubt that Mattis is happy about this. That said I do not know what the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) is actually doing to fix things. Especially as OSD is woefully understaffed right now. I’m not even sure we have an Undersecretary for Personnel and Manpower. Or whatever that office is called this month.
SatanicPanic
Can we have one thread here that doesn’t devolve into arguments about Bernie Sanders?
rp
@cokane: I agree, but Bush’s comments (a) push him and any potential followers closer to our side by opposing isolationism, racism, and white supremacy, and (b) deepen the divide between the far right nuts and the saner Republicans, which can only be a good thing. IOW, he’s helping to hasten the demise of the GOP in its current form.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@slag:
More like they paved the way for each other; Nixon’s it’s so realist, it’s paranoia paved the way for Regan’s Rose Colored American fantasy for GH Bush’s lets go threw the motions for GW Bushes I am right even when I am wrong and finally for Trump’s crazy old man with weird hair yells at clouds. The next Republican president will be some Alex Jones clone; some middle age, fat white guy with no clothes on screaming at the world for four years.
Westyny
@FlipYrWhig: oh look, the bot is back.
Elizabelle
@ Adam:
@jeffreyw:
Full text: George W. Bush speech on Trumpism
Speech transcript, via Politico.
The Dangerman
@Mike in NC:
Inconceivable, but here we are; 44 was the best President of my lifetime and 45 is the worst, by far (yup, even exceeding Johnson and Nixon). Not even close. 45 might be the worst of all time before this is done.
cokane
@rp: sure that’s fair. we’re both speculating on the effect of Bush speaking. I’m not sure I can co-sign your optimistic hopes, but nor can I say they’re wrong. I think the political crisis right now is so severe, we don’t even want to recognize its total scope. And I don’t think Bush or so-called reasonable republicans are ever going to abandon their dangerous ideologies.
rikyrah
@ruemara:
you always told the truth on this. anyone who looked at surrounded him on immigration could see THIS coming.
MomSense
@Ian G.:
Exactly.
trollhattan
Iran-watchers sure have their hands full. I’m guessing trying to parse the triple-judo implied in these statements is challenging.
Responding to Trump is a waste of time but Trump is just pretending to be nuts. Hmmmm.
Davebo
Pretty hilarious.
The Amazon Echo Silver
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@LanceThruster: Lance,
First, do you think your Russians pay masters are going to tolerate this lame Troll you giving us here? Get your game face on man or it’s poison tipped umbrella time for you!
Second, as TRUE Progressive you HAVE to vote for Trump because Trump is incompetent at everything. TRUE Progressivism can’t have hard workers like Hillary in power, she might fix something and then what’s the point of being a TRUE Progressive?
Mnemosyne
@SatanicPanic:
Tell your dead-ender Bros to back off. They’re giving the rest of you guys a bad name.
Ruckus
@cokane:
I agree with both sides of the GWB issue. He was a horrible president, caused lots of death very unnecessarily. He will be considered to be in the worst 5 ever. But if he helps even a bit to rid us of drumpf, then I’m rooting for him while he’s doing it.
SatanicPanic
@trollhattan: I hope someone can convince him that Trump isn’t pretending to be an idiot.
Elizabelle
Moar Politico: George W. slams Trumpism, without mentioning president by name
Good on W.
Amir Khalid
@SatanicPanic:
The Bernie4Evah! types need to be reminded that 2016 is over, and 2020 is not going to be Bernie’s year.
Hovercraft
To think I used to think that Bush would be the absolute worst President in my lifetime ? I’m still shocked that the GOP managed to nominate and elect this boil on humanity to make him look good in comparison ??? Good on him for speaking up, I doubt it’ll do any good, remember he was not a “real conservative”,that’s how the black guy got elected.
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
Khameni is smarter than the Republicans are — he knows that Iran would kick the USA’s ass in a ground war.
rikyrah
Oh, I’m sure Bobby Three Sticks heard…loud and clear.
I’m at a loss: Sessions made *big* news today—he spoke to Kislyak about sanctions at the RNC *and* in September—and no one is discussing it. pic.twitter.com/CGO7RWUWwH
— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) October 19, 2017
amygdala
@Adam L Silverman: Guardian sez “Over a third of enlisted US military personnel are racial minorities.”
That could be some cognitive dissonance over at the WH, were they capable of such.
rikyrah
URGENT: The @FCC is expected to announce a vote on #netneutrality the day before Thanksgiving. Call Congress now! https://t.co/tC4Gs54nAX
— Anonymous (@YourAnonNews) October 18, 2017
Ohio Mom
My first reaction to Bush’s speech was, “Where was this guy oh, sixteen or so years ago?”
But then I considered that here he is showing that he’s always known better, which makes his behavior during his years in the White House even more odious and despicable.
Still, any port in a storm. I’ll take him as an ally for now.
P.S. Up until now I doubted the need for a pie filter. This thread has convinced me otherwise.
Elizabelle
@The Dangerman:
He’s already there. He’s weakening and destroying the country from within, and tearing Americans apart.
He is what radical Republicans, Fox News world and the rightwing plutocrats and enablers foisted on us. They salted the fields and purposely disinformed the rubes — lied to them, sold them a fake world.
Our reaction to Trump is probably along the lines of what fervent Southern secessionists thought about Abraham Lincoln’s election, but with Trump, it’s countrywide and happening in real time. No long delay to hear the news.
Emma
@cokane: I have stayed away from these arguments but this is sheer bs. You had a woman who went out of her way to empower women and people of color; hell, she even tried to speak to the coal-morons. You had a tired communist-lite telling us our problems would go away if we concentrated on economic issues and ignored social problems. Not the same. Not by a mile.
MomSense
@ruemara:
You’ve been right about all of this–the whole time.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: They think they are Victorians. They forget that the rest of the world has moved far beyond the 19th centur. They think that they are superior and Iranians are inferior. They are civilized while the Iranians are heathens. They don’t know history and their fairy tales are not going to last long after contact with reality.
Miss Bianca
@Ian G.: It truly is an amazing world when I find myself saying, “Today is the day George W. Bush became presidential.” //
Yeah, at this point – I’m going to take my allies where I can find them. They’re not my friends, I don’t have to like them, but damn it – the truth of the matter is that John McCain and George W. are maybe, just maybe, going to get thru’ to people that I certainly can’t and won’t. For one thing, the Vichy Press are always going to give more props to Republicans who wake up and start to say non-crazy shit than they ever are to Democrats and liberals.
@Hovercraft: hey, I haven’t ‘seen’ you around in a while! How’s it going?
cokane
@Emma: you’re straw manning his campaign and record as senator, but ok
schrodingers_cat
Has anyone kept a tally of how much these lawsuits against the administration are costing us. The 3rd travel ban has been stayed too.
Aleta
@Gator90: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCm9788Tb5g
SatanicPanic
@Mnemosyne: For the last time, I am not now nor have I ever been a bro. I enthusiastically voted for Hillary. I have been a fan since she spoke at my college in the 90s and I was very much looking forward to her as president. I have defended her to the random bros I encounter, none of whom I am particularly close to. I just don’t hate Bernie that much, apparently that makes me a BernieBro? *rolls eyes*
Jamey
Bush and his enablers/ennoblers made Trump inevitable. W could have paid lip-service to the “democratic spirit” when it mattered, but instead empowered the likes of Cheney and Rove to undermine this same spirit–and the institutions that animate it. Fuck them. With an anthrax-coated strap-on.
trollhattan
@SatanicPanic: I think its a double if not triple move on his part and he’s perhaps providing cover for Trump through flattery (“Who’s actually really clever, see?”) to keep negotiation doors open while simultaneously denouncing him for the home crowd. How can he not know Trump is an infant by now?
Anyhoo, being ignorant of the complexities of Iranian politics it’s my best shot.
JPL
OT
Love, Barack
http://news.emory.edu/features/2017/10/obama-letters/
SatanicPanic
@Amir Khalid: I guess, but there’s like two that show up here, do we have to devote every last thread to slapping them down?
schrodingers_cat
Why are these seasoned generals getting constantly rolled over by Miller in administrative fights?
Amir Khalid
@cokane:
They were very different in the primary. I won’t rehash their differences again, but they wouldn’t have been at all similar as the nominee.
patrick II
@JPL:
@FlipYrWhig
Bush was always good at talking from both sides of his mouth. The “compassionate conservative” with a “humble foreign policy” won the presidency with that B.S. But here in Virginia, as both you say, he has been helping Ed Gillespie run the most racist campaign I have ever seen. There has been an unending stream of advertisements claiming his opponent Northam supports sanctuary cities (Virginia has none) and therefore the MS 13 gang and they will come and kill you in your sleep and then drug your children because evidently every Hispanic in the state is a criminal gang member and we need to get them out now!
Bush, Condi, et al can play the “but we are the civilized one” game very well, but like every republican who quietly conspires to not update the voting rights act, their talk is cheap.
Mnemosyne
@Emma:
In cokane’s defense, I think s/he is partly mocking the Wilmer fans’ Messiah complex.
catclub
@cokane:
corrupted and politicized the DOJ
Brachiator
@ruemara:
Yep. Quite a few people were saying this. Early on, the racists and ultra-nationalists were gloming onto Trump like he was their long lost daddy. And he eagerly returned their attention.
JMG
I don’t think it’s a contradiction at all to think that W was a terrible President but that what he said today is important and valuable.
schrodingers_cat
@JMG: Agreed.
Elizabelle
@patrick II: All true.
I think part of W’s aim is to give cover to Republicans who want to consider themselves “moderates”, not the Trump crowd.
Try to put a shine on the MS-13 turd that Gillespie keeps lobbing into the punchbowl.
A Ghost To Most
@Psych1: Prig sockpuppet.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: sure, but some folks are just as guilty of demonizing a senator whose record is almost identical to clinton’s
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: The one fucking that has been a constant with T is his racism and xenophobia.
Sanjuro58
Trying to atone for his past sins in enabling the culture and mindset and depravity of the Republican party and we are dealing with today DOES NOT GIVE HIM A PASS for those past sins. HE WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SatanicPanic: I hear they like pie, a lot.
boatboy_srq
The one problem with Shrub speaking up now is that, in true No True Conservatist fashion, all the 2016 candidates except possibly HEB? threw Shrub under the bus a “not a true Conservative” for his [mal]administration’s spending habits (including Medicare D, but curiously enough not so much for the foreign misadventures). It’s good to hear his voice in this case, but it’s doubtful many who need to hear it will be listening.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: Because Miller has the ear of their boss.
SFBayAreaGal
Come on, some of you know better. STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS. That way the post doesn’t get derailed. The more you know
Jonothan
What kind of a crazy fucked-up world are we living in when seeing George W. Bush brings a lump to your throat?
Quit now
No peace with Bonaparte
J R in WV
TinyLanceThruster:
You got more lies per paragraph right there than I would have thought possible. Hillary was far more progressive than any other candidate, including Bernie, who had one drum to beat, and never spoke about our communities being subjected to prejudice and hate.
Hillary won the election, by 3 million votes. Cheating in 3 states allowed a corrupt and unpatriotic group of electors to throw the election to the loooser we now have lurking in the Oval Office.
And you should go away, back to your little dark smelly safe space in Mom’s basement and get fucked with a rusty farm implement, as I’ve recommended before. Now I gotta go do stuff, so I’m gone.
FlipYrWhig
@patrick II: Gillespie also ran an ad about how in order to pay teachers more the state of Virginia shouldn’t put itself on the hook to spend so much money tearing down Confederate statues. That may have been the stupidest, most disconnected cause-effect claim I’ve ever seen in politics.
catclub
@rikyrah:
so THAT is why Franken was making abig deal about moving goalposts. From “we never talked to any Russians” to “well we did actually meet with them but we did not have any substantive talks” to “we did not discuss collusion”. All combined with “I have no recollection of anything we discussed, but I know we did not discuss blatz”
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Aren’t they supposed to be there to protect us from his worst depredations. That is their cover story in the media. If so why aren’t they doing it? Or are immigrants chopped liver, an okay sacrifice to satiate T and his blood thirsty mob?
Matt McIrvin
@SatanicPanic: On the other hand, as others have stated in this thread, at this point in W’s administration he was just getting started, basking in the war glow of 9/11 with a huge popular majority behind him, and hadn’t obviously revealed himself to be all that incompetent. God knows what three years and change (or seven and change) of Trump will bring.
Barbara
Bush was a bad president but I have been convinced for a long time that one of two things needs to happen before our political institutions can return to saner footing, with the ardent hope that it would not be too late. One would be for voting patterns to reflect generational trends, the result of death rates and birth rates. The second is for Republican politicians who don’t actually like crazy to grow a pair and stand up for principles like voting rights. So far, the only Republicans coming even close to doing that are those who are no longer in or soon to be out of office. And some of them can’t bear to stand up straight either. Tibari from Ohio is resigning but he is just joining some kind of conservative business lobbying group so will go right along pretending that somehow there is a way to make advances within the chaos. I am optimistic the fever will break but I am increasingly fearful that a lot of other things will be broken beyond repair when the fever breaks.
catclub
@schrodingers_cat: and I thought it was the fealty to Putin.
… three, three chief weapons, Fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency and a fanatical dedication to the Pope.
Jamey
@MomSense: I don’t share your confidence that W will engage in actual battle with Trump with the same gusto as Stalin with Hitler. Or for that matter, that W will do anything beyond reading words strung together for him by Michael Gerson.
Marcopolo
The problem here is Bush was just in VA a few days ago campaigning for Gillespie, who last I checked is running his campaign for governor according to the worst racist xenophobic Trumpian standards. He did the same thing when he ran for office. The Republic party has to get past the crack/heroin they’ve been offering their “base” but they can’t because they have no decent policy or plans to offer that would actually improve the lives of the average American. Instead they are bought and sold by billionaires and their grifter con artists. Trump is too when he manages to get beyond the spectacularly awful shit his malevolent mental illness presents in real time. So thanks for the speech W but I’m mostly just thinking “just words.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: Which generals are you talking about?
catclub
@Ohio Mom:
heck where was he 14 months ago. ‘Letting it be known’ that he would not vote for Trump instead of coming out against him because he knows the job is too important and powerful to allow an impulsive charlatan anywhere near the office. Might have made a difference when it mattered.
Mnemosyne
@SatanicPanic:
Sorry, I may not have been clear: the Bros are making normal people like you who preferred Sanders look like assholes. It would be nice if you could band together with us against the divisive assholes rather than assume that we’re complaining about everyone who ever supported the guy and get defensive.
schrodingers_cat
@catclub: Fealty to Putin is to help achieve the goal of a cleansed America for Western Civilization.
jl
Glad that W shows signs of speaking up for sanity and decency, to the extent he can (he has some history of very bad decisions, you know).
It seemed to me, from comments I have heard him make, that he was very upset by Trump and the Trumpsters. But I wasn’t sure what he would say about it.
I looked into what W is doing with his foundation, and some of it looked very good (immigration, literacy, free speech).
Some of it was horrible. W seems to be a true believer in supply side and the benefits of tax cuts, and they are pushing fiscal policy that I think is about 25 or 50 percent as crazy as the Trumpsters. I do think they are attempting to make more honest arguments, though.
So the cynical side of me wondered if W would be quiet because, maybe like a sold-out GOP Congress, he wanted those sweet sweet tax cuts.
But looks like, for once, the politically cynic in me was wrong. Hope W keeps it up.
Assuming the forces of sanity and decency win, we’ll have to fight him on about half the stuff he is pushing. But, hey, that’s life. I think all hands are needed on deck right now.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: there’s plenty of people making disingenuous and crazy arguments on both sides of the primary debate, silly to think it’s only on one side. ppl making false arguments in this very thread. havent seen you leading by example
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The three serving in civilian posts in the current administration as CoS, Defense Secretary and NSA. How is Steven Miller able to run rings around them.
ETA: Either they share Millers’ goals or they think that the continued erosion of immigrant rights is an acceptable sacrifice to be in T’s good books.
Spanky
@catclub: “http://www.blatzbeer.com/” is a trade name and should be capitalized.
(Who wouldn’t feel the urge to try a beer named “Blatz”?)
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne: An alarming number of those “betters” seem to have popped up in this very thread, among them a disappointing number of regular posters. For fucking fucksakes people! Yes, Bush Jr. was shit as a president, and a shitload of evil was started under his admin. Those are obvious facts that no one is attempting to refute. But he’s also taking a hammer to the current shitshow and the environment that Trump and his enablers are trying to build. Take your fucking allies where you can find them! As others have pointed out, these are EXACTLY the voices that need to begin speaking out against this proto-fascist regime. Obama and Clinton would be at best ignored, more likely they would simply lead to a deeper entrenching of the hate on behalf of the MAGAts. Grow the fuck up, all of you!
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@Miss Bianca: Here here. The purity ponies who were suckers for the right-wing talking points need to go fuck themselves raw.
Spanky
@schrodingers_cat:
Yeah, that sounds about right.
schrodingers_cat
@Gravenstone: Unlike women and immigrants and other undesirables they perhaps have the least to lose. Hence they can be purity ponies. Many of us don’t have that luxury.
jl
@Gravenstone: You can watch what goes on at Dub’s library on youtube. I disagree strongly with more than half of it. But is a totally different world than what we’d live under with the Trumpsters. Honest debate and disagreement are allowed. Dissenters are allowed to speak. I’ve seen W show up and speak as a clearly minority, very conservative position and take some lumps (And W is, let’s face, not equipped to argue with top scholars, less than Warren, Clintons or Obama), particularly on his wacky fiscal and educational ideas.
But, still, the W world is a totally different world than the Trumpster world. As I said, right now, all hands on deck I’d rather fight for sane macroeconomic and fiscal policy at W library event than with the vicious and loony Trumpsters.
boatboy_srq
@Marcopolo: Words and actions. Very different.
Spanky
@Spanky: Well, I hashed that link. Sorry, all.
A Ghost To Most
rawstory
schrodingers_cat
@jl: W didn’t want to kill all immigrants or deport them, so there is that.
amygdala
@jl: He believes what he believes. I don’t have much good to say about the guy, but PEPFAR saved a lot of lives and it’s not like Republicans are going to listen to a Democrat caution against protectionism. Not sure they’ll listen to W, either, but if a few of them will, I’ll take it.
Unlike Cheney, W observed the tradition of not criticizing the first President who followed him. It was the right thing to do, and now that he’s not reined in by that, he’s speaking out. Worth remembering about Obama’s silence.
W’ll never be Elizabeth Warren, but perhaps more importantly, he’ll also never be Trump et al.
dexwood
@No Drought No More:
I’d happily buy you a few beers first, then join you afterwards.
Chyron HR
@A Ghost To Most:
The Hitler Youth doesn’t get to talk back to party officials, duh.
Corner Stone
@A Ghost To Most: I don’t understand how these asshole politicians are so freakin thin skinned. They can’t handle an 11 yr old?
Corner Stone
@Spanky: I don’t know how you haven’t sworn off intertrons and donated your computer by now. Embarrassing.
A Ghost To Most
@Chyron HR: Huh, somebody else calls them that. That’s nice.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
Also his horrendous attitudes towards women.
But I still can’t believe how some people did not see Trump for what he was even though it was plainly evident. “Trump may be a birther, but that doesn’t necessarily means that he is racist.”
Yes. It does.
Vhh
@catclub: For any chance of being removed from office, Trump needs to kill more than 5K Americans, preferably white, or get caught stealing $5M from women, children and pld people.
jl
@amygdala: I think W is guilty of horribly bad judgement and arrogance when he entered office. He made disastrous decisions, and it took years for him to correct course on some of the worst stuff, like taking years to downgrade Cheney’s faction, long after it was obvious he was a disaster, for example.
But, W showed he was capable of changing his mind, and he, or at least his people, were capable of producing some good policy initiatives. One interesting, hilarious, and disgusting, phenomenon of the Obama years, was to see a decent W policy initiative emerge and get public notice during the Obama years and that Obama approved. Then you saw corrupt GOPers and the Trumpster faction jump all over it as a dsastardly and disgraceful LIEbural Obama Satanic policy. And our lousy worthless news media let the GOP get away with it, which is one of their unforgivable crimes, IMHO.
Right now we take the allies we can to fight. There will always be episodes like the W years in this country’s history. We won’t always get lucky with the GOP wins that will occur, and get stuck with moderate technically super competent soulless bureaucrats like Mitt. Sometimes we will have to put with a W. But still the W world is a totally different world that the Trumpsters, who have to be defeated, period, full stop, end of story.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@DickThruster:
I’m sure Jill Stein would have wiped the floor with Trump. Said no one ever.
frosty
@Betty Cracker: high praise from BC, who can turn a mean phrase herself!
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: People voted for him because he hated the same things and people they did.
Barbara
@Marcopolo: Regarding Bush campaigning for Gillespie: Bush legitimately tried to get immigration reform passed. Gillespie has jumped on this noxious immigrants are evil bandwagon, which doesn’t seem to bother Bush. The point being that regardless of what he says, Bush is and always has been for good old boy politics, and since Gillespie is a good old boy, Bush will show up to support him even if he is just as bad as Trump, which he isn’t quite, but he sure is trying to pander to those who would like him to be. Bush is offended by Trump’s style as much as he is by Trump’s destructive impulses. All of these guys are tainted, and I believe it is possible to diminish the taint and be a force for good (Earl Warren certainly did), but Bush can’t have it both ways here.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Wevs, dude. The Women’s March organizers just beclowned themselves by turning the Women’s Conference into a Sanders 2020 rally after the last date to get a refund and you think the problem is Hillary’s supporters. smh.
MCA1
@rp: Maybe. I think the more likely response among older school R’s will be to nod in agreement, say to each other “Did you see that speech by George Bush?” and tut-tut about how necessary it was, while folding their arms and harumphing about the state of the party under that boorish interloper who doesn’t know how to get tax cuts passed. They won’t actually do anything, and they sure as hell won’t be voting for a Democrat in the foreseeable future in any race. This speech was enough to confirm their feelings but will not spur them to abandon the party or speak out themselves or take any other meaningful action.
That said, I like that Bush said these things. He may have been a terrible president, and he’s not ideally suited to be criticizing hyperpartisanism and the othering of dissenting voices. Nonetheless, he didn’t have to give a speech lamenting Trump, but he did. That’s something. It may not lead to much directly, but it can serve a rhetorical purpose and help in the goal of establishing a national sentiment that we need to do something about where we are societally.
amygdala
@jl:
Ayep. And in the other direction, too, with the current administration taking credit for the continued economic recovery and the fall, finally, of ISIS. They’re so busy insisting it’s their doing that they won’t see the inevitable stock (or whatever) bubble or that without a political solution, ISIS’ remnants will reform themselves into something even worse.
And then they’ll blame Obama.
Gelfling 545
@satby: I’m guessing that so e Republicans, while still wishing to retain their financial and cultural privilege, realize that being king of a dung heap is not an enviable position. Finally understanding that they have no ability to regulate Trump, that he has no ability or wish to regulate himself and that Hey! they have to live here too are timidly raising their voices. Not enough to name names and alarm the base but it’s a step toward acknowledging reality which is always tough for Republicans.
Chyron HR
What’s really going to be funny is if B-sizzle is the Democratic frontrunner in 2020, a new batch of Russian bots are going to brainwash Lance and Psycho into thinking he’s the devil, and they’ll be here all year screaming things like:
“Did you know he said that only blacks need gun control?”
“He disdainfully refers to the rights of [minority group] as identity politics!”
“Look at these capital gains taxed at a 15% rate, some progressive!”
“I bet he probably said he didn’t even want our votes!”
“Gillibrand or Gillibust!”
Hoodie
I’d say this speech is a start, but W, Walnuts and others need to go further, e.g., put aside the free enterprise dogma for a while and focus solely Trumpian prejudice and corruption. Tax cut Jesus can take a vacation with 4.2 percent unemployment, and foregoing tax cuts under current conditions is not inconsistent with the mythical “fiscal responsibility” they never seem to live up to.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: oh, FFS…kid is thrown out of his Cub Scout troop for daring to question white politician lady? I am ashamed of Colorado today.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
Take a look in the mirror
@Mnemosyne:
Reminds me a bit of #NotAllMen from a few years back.
That is a real shame too. They lost some credibility. People like them are needed now more than ever.
jl
@Hoodie: We can watch how McCain votes. If the GOP rich man’s tax slash plan is hatched in secret like the health/tax slash BS, and some disastrous legislative mystery meat is unveiled at the last moment without regular order, McCain needs to hear from people that they are counting on him to live up to his state principles.
cokane
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: where did i make a false claim in the thread coz?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Miss Bianca:
The worst part is that poor kid and his family are probably going to get death threats now. The Denver Post should have omitted his name. He’s still a minor, even if his parents gave the paper permission to list his name.
dogwood
@jl:
Well said.
Chris
@No Drought No More:
It also is meaningless because he has absolutely no moral authority left. Including in the GOP. Those who loved him because “he won’t give the terrorists a time out – he’ll smack ’em right in the mouth” have moved on to better and bigger assholes. He might not be despised the way McCain is, but teabaggers and Trumpists are often happy to include him in the bunch of RINOs who screwed up the country by being so liberal.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: i mean, lecturing the Women’s March organizers about who is fit to speak at their event… seems pretentious to me. Are you out there doing the labor of organizing?
Chris
@Bill:
Exactly the first thing I thought, too.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
FlipYrWhig
@Barbara: See, what’s funny is that Gillespie fails every conceivable good ol’ boy test. He’s a lobbyist/power-broker. IIRC he didn’t run this way for Senate in 2014. Hence it’s a particularly rancid act he’s putting on.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
That’s just some whataboutery. Her point still stands.
Chris
@JPL:
I didn’t know that. God, fuck him. Yet another Republican who finds Trump embarrassing while having zero problem with anything he’s actually doing.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca: We are not immune. This state can’t go from purple to blue soon enough.
Marcopolo
@Barbara: I get your points but (and this is the argument I’ll be using w/ my R neighbor for the 2018 election) even though Gillespie is the embodiment of the R establishment if he is elected he will vote party line on the basis of what the billionaires want and whatever the worst common denominator among R base voters has been told. He is not gonna be a Susan Collins (and I’m pretty sure if we look at her record there are a shit-ton of crappy votes she has cast, like say Gorsuch).
A Ghost To Most
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but I have personal experience with bigotry in the Boy Scouts.
Jeffro
Fuck W for all the lives and trillions he spent after dragging us into an unnecessary war.
Having said that…we’re going to need the relatively sane 20% of the GOP to help tip the balance in this Trumpist-led, semi-stalemated country. I’ll take W’s help for as long as it takes to tip that balance.
cokane
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it isn’t whataboutery, armchair activists who like to shit all over everything should show receipts
A Ghost To Most
Go, Team, Go!
Matt McIrvin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I’m not convinced he has full intentional control over whether he gets us involved in a shooting war or not. That involves, for one thing, a firm grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
I know, it’s so weird to think that maybe the Women’s Conference should highlight women and not the male runner-up in the Democratic primary.
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Remind me never to try and defend cokane again. Christ, what an asshole.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: i know it’s so weird to think the ppl who organized the largest public protest in history deserve the benefit of the doubt in knowing how to organize
tho im sure some comment board dweller must know better
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
I would think every level of the military, and more the higher you go, would be having shit fits about this. I know they can’t stop it, but my understanding of the culture would be that this will make Trump a lot of enemies.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Yes, it’s almost like they rode a wave of feminist outrage but didn’t realize what they had, isn’t it?
But, hey, enjoy yourself at the Women’s Conference. It sounds like the organizers love to be lectured by white dudes, so they’ll be fawning all over you.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
Irony has left the building
@Mnemosyne:
To be fair, it’s possible that the organizers were always clownish loons politically, they just hated Trump.
cokane
@cokane: lol because i disagree with you and rightly call you on your armchair quarterbacking. the irony is that all the bullshit you rightly accuse some bernie bros being guilty of, you’re guilty of as well. i mean, you can’t even cut some slack to the women’s march organizers? who the fuck do you think are?
Marcopolo
@cokane: Let me wade in here uninvited. We are talking about the “inaugural” Women’s Conference. Remind me again of all those times BS was out on the front lines fighting the good fight for women’s issues. There are a multitude of women (or men for that matter) who’ve done a hell of a lot more and frankly would be more inspirational. Alas, they might not have the same name recognition or “media presence” as BS.
cokane
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: i’m not the one criticizing people who are actually taking the field, coz. these weak attempt at unearthing hypocrisy only reveal that you have nothing to actually say
misterpuff
Chris Matthews will probably get a tingle again and say “why can’t Progressives say these kinds of things like McCain did the other night?” as I scream “Its always wrong if a Dem says it!”/The Village. We fucking live and breathe this shit but we are f*cking hippies. Partially due to the Bush Admin.
cokane
@Marcopolo: i don’t have to defend their decision to pick sanders and i never said he was the right choice, which is what your post is implying i said. i merely think the folks who are doing the organizing have done impressive work in the past, and maybe… deserve the benefit of the doubt.
i’ll add, one speaker, is not a life or death decision. if you want to cancel attending the meeting or stop backing the group because of one speaking choice, one that’s not that weird — it’s not Mitt Romney, sheesh. I mean, it’s the same kind of petulant attitude diehard berners had.
Spanky
@Corner Stone: It’s GFE.
Chris
@SFBayAreaGal:
Not one of those feeding the trolls, but I’ll make my obligatory comment here that as long as troll control isn’t practiced, there will be trolls, and people responding to them. Human nature.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
I’m a Democratic woman who’s tired of having Nina Turner and Linda Sarsour shove Sanders down my throat over a year after he lost. Who are you?
Chris
@misterpuff:
Republicans/Democrats and the Village’s relation to them are the living embodiment of the “have to work twice as hard to get half the recognition” principle.
A Ghost To Most
@Mnemosyne:
That quote is getting quite the workout these days, with good reason.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
So you’re actually saying they’re above criticism just because the person doing the criticising isn’t a big event organizer? That’s silly, the merits of an argument largely rest in the argument itself.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Well, if all we have to do is admire people who are “taking the field,” why not admire Richard Spencer? Sure, his beliefs are abhorrent and his actions are awful, but at least he’s taking action to promote his beliefs. Who are we to criticize him for the content of his beliefs?
cokane
@Mnemosyne: shoved down your throat? lol, you sound like a fox news viewer now
seriously, i dont understand the headspace someone can live in where say diane feinstein is perfectly unobjectionable but BERNIE SANDERS IS AN OUTRAGE, and i say that in no way to criticize feinstein
cokane
@Mnemosyne: i think i can invoke godwin’s law at this point and declare victory, the dis-ingenuousness of that post is pretty brazen
A Ghost To Most
@cokane: Godwin’s Law is dead, dead, dead. It died when actual fascists took over.
cokane
@A Ghost To Most: someone just compared the women’s march organizers to neo-nazis, but OK
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Who’s defending Feinstein? Though it’s true that if Feinstein were speaking at the Women’s Conference, no one would be upset by her gender. Can you guess for a minute why that would be?
@cokane:
Hey, you decided to declare victory the moment your Personal Jesus’s Holy Name was impugned by the implication that he’s out of place at a women’s conference, so why not slink away and declare victory? It’s really all you have left.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
She wasn’t comparing them at all. She was merely pointing out the stupidity of your argument by taking it to its logical conclusion via an extreme example: that Richard Spencer is at least “taking the field” for his beliefs, therefore who are we to criticize him or his beliefs?
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Er, no, I didn’t, but you do you, sweetums. I’m sure you’re the most active activist ever and never criticize people online without taking the exact same action they did.
Fair Economist
@A Ghost To Most:
It was never really alive in the first place. It just said that discussions always mentioned you-know-who if they went on long enough. It never said that the references were necessarily specious or misleading. It used to be true that such references were usually specious/misleading/whatever but that wasn’t part of the law. Nowadays such references are usually on target, although not always.
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I have a great book by Carol Tavris called The Mismeasure of Women who talks about a conference she once went to where a woman scientist presented a paper about menstruation and a man in the audience stood up and complained that she didn’t include men in her research.
Cokane would be that guy.
cokane
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: curious how you didnt point out that whataboutism in that case. it’s a red herring anyways, as her criticism of the women’s march wasn’t for their beliefs, but their choice of speakers. mnem didn’t criticize WM’s beliefs above? But now it’s relevant? And pray tell, what specific beliefs are being criticized?
y’all can’t even keep your arguments consistent
cokane
@Mnemosyne: what i love about these identitarian arguments is the economy of their fallaciousness. argument from authority. ad hominem. and the ecological fallacy. in such a small space!
Chyron HR
Gosh, it’s hard to believe the people who thought God sent a bird to mark Bernie as the chosen one would turn out to be a bunch of cranks.
SatanicPanic
@Matt McIrvin: this is true
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Sigh. Let’s start again.
You’re saying that I’m not allowed to criticize Sarsour’s decisions because she was one of the organizers of the D.C. Women’s March.
If your sole criterion is that she organized a march and I haven’t, so I’m not allowed to make judgments about her decisions, why not compare her to other people who have also successfully organized marches? You’re the one who decided that her success in co-organizing the march means that she’s above criticism.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: a strawman characterization, as i never said sanders has to be there. merely that it’s not a BFD and that WM’s organizer should have earned some trust by now
but your insistence on inventing aspects of me is telling
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Yes, how dare women think that other women are the best people to speak about women’s thoughts and experiences?
We should all just shut up and let men tell us how to think and feel like in the good old days.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: let’s start again, you implied that you want to cancel your attendance at a WM conference because of ONE speaker choice. you slammed bernie diehards above for their bad behavior. how is this different?
tbh, if tim kaine was the freaking keynote, you wouldn’t be upset. you have an unhealthy hatred of one politician, the same thing you rightly knock bernie diehards for.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
Don’t you think it’s inappropriate to have a male be the headline speaker at the Women’s Conference? I mean why woudn’t they have invited HRC, the first major party female presidential nominee in American history? Or hell even Elizabeth Warren?
Look, I get it. It’s their conference, they can invite whoever they want to speak. I just can’t help but give them the side-eye when they decide to invite the losing primary contender who is not a woman to speak. They’re probably doing it for name recognition so they sell more tickets or something (or just get more attendance if it’s free [doubtful]).
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
[citation needed]
cokane
@Mnemosyne: you’re the only one telling the women who are organizing the conference that someone should shut up
again, you tell on yourself as a dishonest person by burning these strawmen
TheronWare
Like him or not, G.W. Bush was an actual POTUS!
Dave
@jeffreyw: WaPo has transcript.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
It’s not a BFD to you. To the hundreds of women complaining about the decision on Twitter and other places, it seems to be a BFD. But nice job of lecturing the little ladies about what they should and should not think is a BFD.
That’s the whole point — they squandered that trust, first by deliberately excluding Hillary from the Women’s March, and then with this move.
If they want to regain women’s trust, they should say that they didn’t realize that Sanders is still a divisive figure and uninvite him. Instead, they’re doubling down on their decision, which makes it look like showcasing Sanders 2020 was their plan from the beginning.
If he was appearing at an economic conference, there would be a little grumbling and then no one would care. But showcasing him at a women’s conference is an unbelievable own goal that has broken any trust that was built up. And sadly for them, it only takes one instance to do it.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: Really, Mnem, I thought women just loved mansplaining from shouty old white guys. Why else have a women’s conference? Isn’t the whole purpose of a women’s conference to prove that some men can effortlessly talk down to women?
/s/
Captain C
@Mnemosyne:
Well, at least until he was pressed for details, and couldn’t give any.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Yep, the enlisted and warrant cohorts tend to have much higher levels of people of color than the officer corps. That will shift generationally. The children of the current enlisted and warrant cohorts will be more likely to become officers.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
Because women can’t do stupid things.?
I don’t take it like Mnem is telling the organizers to shut up. She’s critiquing their choice to invite a man to be the headline speaker at a
Women’s Conference! That’s not the same thing as telling them to shut up.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
To have the running mate of the first woman major party candidate speak at a women’s conference about supporting women politicians? No, I probably wouldn’t have a problem with that. I left a few hints for you as to why.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: West Point could do a bit better on ethnic diversity, but compared to most private universities, it is doing fairly well.
NorthLeft12
I can’t believe I listened to the whole speech. And from my point of view I don’t get how anyone can get excited about this. He does not name Deadbeat Donald and the Republicans by name, and throws out the usual crapola with no specifics that will allow these douchecanoes to skate around anything that seems to implicate them.
And for dogs sake, this is Dubya saying this stuff, right? The guy has pretty well zero support or gravitas anywhere across the political spectrum. The Orange Idiot already dumped all over him in the primaries and became more popular because of it.
It’s like bringing a sponge to a gun fight.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
You can’t even say it, can you? I’m telling the women who are organizing the conference that a man should shut up and listen.
I’m really not sure how I could be any more clear that gender is the problem. Sanders has no business being the headline speaker at a women’s conference.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Because he’s the only one who has ever worked in the Federal government before in a civilian capacity. So he understands the system. Generals Mattis and Kelly topped out as Geographic Combatant Commanders (CENTCOM and SOUTHCOM respectively) and LTG McMaster was the Deputy Commanding General of TRADOC and the Director of Army Capability Integration Center (ARCIC) when he became National Security Advisor. So they all understand the Interagency, but they’ve never been principals or deputies in it. Miller has worked the process on behalf of then Senator Sessions, so he has a better understanding of how to warp the process in his favor.
Miller is also taking advantage of the vacuum created by not actually staffing the majority of positions, both requiring senatorial confirmation and not, throughout the government. You have over worked SESes and senior civil servants pulling double duty and no political appointees fighting to maintain control of their turf and their agencies prerogatives.
LTG McMaster better get control of the Interagency back and get the National Security Staff back into where they need to be or Miller and the transition folks that have been salted in a variety of agencies are going to make things much, much worse.
Immanentize
@NorthLeft12: I think it matters because it is like Derrick Bell’s codes of racial credibility — when a black person supports a black colleague, it is dismissed as race based. But when a black person criticizes a colleague, it is considered the most valuable information available.
Bush’s speech, even in mild criticism, is a big deal because he is criticizing his own tribe — and frankly his own tribal leader.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: sanders really isnt a divisive figure among democrats, polling data backs this up. i think you’re experiencing the exaggeration of spending too much time on social media. very few dems or liberal voters have this weird hatred for the man. and, because of how our campaigns are, ya he’s just about the most nationally recognized dem after the clintons and obama. i don’t think it’s an outrage to have picked him if the goal of the keynote is to draw maximum number of folks into an organizing movement.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman:
Just thought that was worth repeating. And Miller ought to be a primary political target of everyone who cares about the future of this country (planet?)
diierent-church-lady
@Gator90: …wut u did dere
Mnemosyne
@Immanentize:
INORITE? ?
Next up, let’s have Pope Francis be the keynote speaker at the Anti-Defamation League’s conference. I’m sure he’ll have a lot to say about how much the Jewish faith means to him.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: West Point’s, and the other Service academies’, student demographic ratio is set by Congress.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Maximum number of women. Not just “folks.” Women. If the Women’s Conference isn’t supposed to be about highlighting women in politics, why bother calling it a Women’s Conference? Call it something else so people aren’t misled into thinking they’re going to be hearing from and about powerful women.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: Like I said, not bad. Congress did OK.
Did you see Kelly’s comments today? Are you going to post on it at some point? It made me mad….
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: No argument. I’ve been tracking this a while now. Over the summer it was reported that Miller had taken was had been a pro forma working group, the Domestic Policy Council, and was turning it into a domestic equivalent of the National Security Council, with him as the domestic equivalent of the National Security Advisor, and that he intended to use it to push his agenda, including those portions that should rightly be handled by the National Security Council. And he’s ingratiated himself with Jared and Ivanka. So he’s got triple cover: the President, Jared, and Ivanka. Until or unless Gen Kelly, LTG McMaster, and the relevant cabinet secretaries and other principles push back he’s going to create a lot of trouble. Fortunately the Federal courts are checking a lot of his insanity.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Actually Pope Francis would probably be an excellent keynote speaker about ecumenical approaches to combat extremism and anti-Semitism.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: Let’s just let Bernie address everyone — the Knights of Columbus at their conference, the NAACP’s annual conference, La Raza’s gathering, etc. After all, the man can shout! And point! AND STAB THE AIR!
Barbara
@FlipYrWhig: If good ol’ boy is the wrong term, let me replace it with transactional politics. Gillespie raised money for Bush, ergo Bush will support Gillespie. Bush doesn’t care whether Gillespie is on the side of freedom or not. It’s not that people don’t believe in freedom or whatever Bush was talking about, it’s that it is always subsidiary to any chance to gain or keep power.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: It gets better every time they revise it. There’s a lot of work that goes into it. And Congress doesn’t just do it without the Services and DOD having a lot of input.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: After what Kelly said today about Women, religion and gold star families being “sacred” in this country, I think Miller probably has quad-cover. Kelly at least left out “white people.”
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: I saw the press conference and Gen Kelly’s remarks. Including “I told him not do a call”. Which tells me Gen Kelly knew the President was likely to screw it up. So Gen Kelly tried to feed him a script and, of course, the President screwed it up.
This is aside from the fact that Gen Dunford’s words to Gen Kelly, (at the time) 3 star to 3 star, Marine to Marine, probably meant something much different to Gen Kelly coming from a long time friend than they would have from the President to Mrs Johnson even if the President hadn’t botched the transmission.
That’s my take.
diierent-church-lady
@LanceThruster: why is it every sportsball team that loses the semi-finals thinks they could have won the finals?
cokane
@Mnemosyne: i’ll concede that it’s a striking choice, but your insistence that this one speaker must be a woman or else the conference should be boycotted, it’s odd. and coupling this with your previous sustained animosity towards anything sanders. it’s just a weird hatred to have for an otherwise reliable vote in the senate.
i’m pretty sure just about all the speakers are women. and, seriously, you think the organizers didn’t have this debate already internally? perhaps they’re interested in getting more than women to care about women’s issues (since that’s the only way to get policy victories) and maybe they see this as a tactic in doing that. or maybe they thought it would make news since it’s an unexpected choice. regardless he’s only speaking for a small fraction of the conference’s total length. and your rage over it is ridiculous.
libarbarian
@Mnemosyne:
Twitter is a horrible, horrible, absolutely fucking horrible way of judging “popular opinion” for a whole host of reasons. You can get a few hundred people upset on twitter by saying something “wrong” about crochet or rose cultivation
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: I found his attack on the Congresswoman — who helped to literally pulled La David out of terrible circumstances to become an elite green beret — to be disgraceful and frankly racist/sexist.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Don’t you start. I have your email address.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: Also too, I agree with you about the conversation between commanders. It might have been soothing to one who has also sacrificed so much. But again, I will say that is an ill feature, not a bug, of the all-volunteer military.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: Gen Kelly is a 67 year old retired Marine 4 star who grew up Irish Catholic in Boston in the 1950s and 1960s. He’s going to be a pretty traditional person. And that’s before you layer on the Marine Corps professional ethos and culture. So I think you just have to recognize that those portions of the comments show the context of who he is as a whole person, the sum of the parts if you will. You also have to understand how hard this probably was for him. He has gone out of his way since his son was killed to not discuss any of this in public. Under two presidents. Today he did so in order to try to clean up a mess his boss made. He basically threw himself on his Mamluk sword today to try to change the narrative.
Now all of this is clearly separate from the reality that one of the reason nothing is sacred anymore is people like the President he is currently serving and his most fervent supporters. What you saw today was a very public jettisoning of a portion of Gen Kelly’s pride to cover his boss’s exposed ass.
diierent-church-lady
@cokane:
Except he’s no longer a democrat.
Barbara
@Immanentize: She said that she felt like she had lost her son. I believe her. I really wish that if asked about it Trump and company would just keep repeating that they are grieved by Johnson’s death, they consider him a hero and a brave man, and they don’t want to say anything more so that those who loved him can grieve in peace. In addition to making it go away as an issue, it’s the right thing to do.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I’m not disagreeing with your overall point. When I saw the speaker announced I thought it was terrible. Having him on a panel? Sure. Having him give a talk, but not the keynote? Not an issue. Having him be the keynote? Off kilter scheduling.
As to Pope Francis: don’t mess with the Society!
cokane
@diierent-church-lady: fair nuf, tho its also not a dem conference!
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: He made it clear what his history with Congresswoman Wilson is from when he was SOUTHCOM Commander. To be honest if a male, white Congressman had done what he described (and I wasn’t there, so can’t say how accurate this recounting was) I would expect he’d have been equally upset. General officer/Flag officer politics is very, very different than elected official politics.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
They don’t seem to have. In fact, they seem flabbergasted that any woman anywhere could possibly object to their asking a man to headline their Women’s Conference. Given that they’re knee-deep in Our Revolution, I’m not surprised that it never occurred to them that maybe a woman should be the headliner at the Women’s Conference, but here we are.
And, actually, I don’t hate Sanders himself that much. He’s pretty much a bog-standard old white guy senator who got a swelled head because he got more attention than he was used to.
The people I hate are his goddamned cultists who think he can do no wrong and think he’s an appropriate speaker for any occasion, including what was billed to be a conference for women, by women, about empowering women in politics.
@libarbarian:
I would be curious to know how many actual cancellations they’ve gotten vs. new sign-ups, but they refuse to say.
And everyone knows that crochet is the devil’s handicraft. ?
Ceci7
@libarbarian: It wasn’t just Twitter.
De-lurking to say thanks, Mnemosyne, for taking on the thankless task of countering cokane’s nonsense. Funny how it’s always about our failure to STFU. If the progressive movement can’t succeed without Sanders it’s not viable. And the Women’s March organizers don’t necessarily deserve to be lionized.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: I have had friends and former colleagues who have served as casualty officers. It is some of the most fulfilling and at the same time horrifying work one can do.
I still can’t bring myself, 10 years on, to send a letter to the parents of a captain from one of our battalions I knew and thought very highly of who was killed in Iraq. I still have trouble recounting the events of that day and I was back on base when it happened.
I was able to reach out to my Area Specialty Officer’s widow. He taught me how to build, run, and lead a small team. He died on a contract the year after I was in Iraq from natural causes – he just never woke up one morning. He’d had a number of health issues left over from his service as a Green Beret in Vietnam. This was less tragic, but it was still hard to convey how much he meant to me.
These are not easy things to deal with and/or respond to.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: so just checking the site, it’s 3 male speakers out of 38, and sanders thus occupies 2.6% of the speakers there… i mean, this is boycott, cancellation worthy? ok
cokane
@Ceci7: again, more strawmen arguments, only one person is objecting to someone speaking in this thread
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
I realize it’s a bizarre concept that maybe women might like to have their own space to talk to other women about women’s issues and how they approach situations as a woman without having men butt into the conversation with their perspective but, yes, that’s what I’m saying.
And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that something that bills itself as a Women’s Conference would do that rather than getting a high-profile man as the headliner who will take attention away from women and women’s issues.
But they made their choice, and now they have to live with their damaged brand.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane:
Just keep digging moron.
“B-b-but strawmen! The strawmen are coming, the strawmen are coming!”
cokane
@Mnemosyne: women are 92% of the speakers at this conf, but plz procede governor
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
As I already said, I realize that you have no clue why women would want to have a women’s conference where they can talk to and learn from other women without having a man insert himself into the proceedings.
There are times when I go to protests for things like BLM to increase the crowd. And you know what I do while I’m there? I keep my mouth shut and listen to the people with actual experience tell me about their experience. I don’t demand a spot on the stage so my white lady self can tell them what BLM means to me.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: again youre inventing some facts here to fit your narrative. no evidence presented that sanders demanded anything. he was invited.
your insistence on purity among conference speakers is telling. not getting that purity and thus walking off in a petulant huff, well that’s behavior i would called berned.
cokane
@cokane: anyways it’s been fun. i dont think you’re a bad person, but it’s clear you exhibit the same inter-partisanship you rightly flag berniebros for having. the same purity tests. the same my-way-or-the-highway attitude. the same petulant desire to cut and run when you dont get what you want, even on things that are nothing more than symbolism in the long run.
this not a winning attitude towards building a pluralistic movement. you rightly see it when it’s on the other side.
Captain C
@diierent-church-lady: Nor was he ever except for the few months he wanted to use the infrastructure and efforts of the Democratic Party for his own ends.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry, I had to step away — I know that these things are personal and hit everyone in different ways. I am so glad there are people like casualty officers (and oncology teams) that learn both how to do it and how to do it respectfully. I personally think no president should ever call any grieving family member. A beautifully written letter is both more appropriate and more enduring. Just my 2 cents.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: No worries. None of this meshugas this week should have happened. None of it should have been necessary. The original sin of the week, if I may use the term, was the President’s inability to take responsibility for anything that he actually does/has control over (as opposed to all the stuff he takes credit for that he doesn’t actually do/doesn’t have control over). As well as the President’s inability to demonstrate any class, grace, maturity, and/or empathy. Everything else, up to and including Gen Kelly’s remarks today, are the result of the President’s failures before the White House press corps on Monday.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: Sadly, how so many weeks go these days.
BellyCat
@ Chyron HR:
Hitler Youth?
You do realize that you are dissing an organization that just allowed young women and transgendered youths (finally!) to join?
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Wow. Saying that women should be the focus at a Women’s Convention is “insisting on purity.”
No misogyny there, no sirree.
jonas
@Adam L Silverman:
Adam, if by throw himself on his sword you mean he debased or sacrificed himself for some nobler goals for the greater good or something, I might agree. But throwing yourself on a sword for the horrid behavior of this disgraceful shitgibbon is just, well, another unconscionable disgrace. Kelly didn’t have to — but purposefully chose to — not only slander of Congresswoman Wilson, but then also smear the Khan family as a bunch of attention-seekers. I think that doesn’t reveal him as a loyal soldier taking one for the team but as just…well, another disgusting shill willing to become a dignity wraith if he thinks it keeps him in Trump’s good graces. Hell, I think he even admires Trump and is really fucking committed to MAGA.
There is no redemption for Kelly. He’s in Trump’s administration because he agrees with Trump’s 24-7 bullshit spewing. Full stop.
LosGatosCA
Bush II has a problem and he (or the people advising him) knows it.
Right now he and Trump are two peas in the same pod. Minority vote getters ‘winning’ a rigged election followed by clear incompetence and catastrophe.
Unless Bush II does some post-presidential differentiating when the post Cold War era is written down in history books he will be (deservedly) grouped with all the Republican lying, incompetent, nut jobs from impeachment to Trump as a direct connection (correctly).
OTOH, Kelly is just an asshole in a uniform. He’s already proved he’s an asshole at DHS. Adding to the pile of shit he’s the proud owner of is a non-problem from his perspective.
LanceThruster
@diierent-church-lady:
Bernie ran within the system so as not to be accused of being a spoiler. His message resonated across a large spectrum, particularly in the way he funded his campaign. Dems claimed to support ‘BLUE no matter WHO.’ Many progressives were up front about not supporting Clinton, even more so after the shenanigans of the primary. It was not a year to go with an establishment candidate, particularly one with the remarkably high negatives of Hillary. National polling showed her virtually tied with Trump whereas Bernie was ahead by around 10%. Superdelegates helped install the weaker candidate, right at the time her numbers were dropping and Bernie’s were rising. Sometimes in sports ball, the coaches make bad calls that adversely affect the outcome for the players. Team Hillary got their Pied Piper just as they wanted.
It’s not about harping on the past, but trying to rebuild for the future. Expect more shellackings since the DNC is purging their progressive wing and installing more corporate lobbyists as superdelegates.
That’s sports ball for you.
LanceThruster
Turns out you’re right about Bernie after all. He’s blowing off the Women’s Convention so he can instead go steal the thunder from San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz in Puerto Rico. No wonder you all hate him so.