The President will be awarding a long overdue Medal of Honor today. The recipient, Gary Michael Rose, was an 18D (Green Beret “shooting medic”) during the events he is finally being recognized for.
Rose, who was a Green Beret, was given the Distinguished Service Cross, the nation’s second highest medal for valor, four months after the mission in 1971. Monday’s Medal of Honor is considered an upgrade of that award.
The honors recognized Rose’s valiant efforts in Vietnam as he traveled with the unit, which was called the Military Assistance Command Studies and Observations Group, or MACSOG. He suffered wounds from bullets and rockets as well as a helicopter crash.
He is credited with saving more than 100 comrades during the mission.
Rose was the only medic among 16 Green Berets and 120 Vietnamese tribal fighters known as Montagnards traveling in the covert unit. They were dropped in the Laotian jungle Sept. 11 for the mission known as Operation Tailwind. As they moved into enemy territory to a North Vietnamese encampment, they almost immediately came under heavy fire and the force took multiple casualties.
In several cases, Rose used his own body as a human shield to protect members of his unit, even as he was wounded, and continued to treat others. “My focus was to take care of the guys who were hurt,” Rose recalled. “You just got to do your job and keep moving down the road.”
In the end, every soldier would be wounded, three Montagnards were killed and three helicopters crashed.
On Friday, Rose reiterated the medal will belong to his MACSOG unit, others who fought at that time and recognizes the efforts of the troops who did and didn’t make it back from the mission.
“This medal, I consider a collective medal,” Rose said. “For all of us who fought on the ground, in the Air Force and the Marines on Operation Tailwind. In a greater sense, it also honors the Special Forces during this time frame.”
What is so interesting about this award is its connection to one of the largest Vietnam War conspiracy theories. In 1998 CNN debuted a new new’s magazine show in conjunction with Time Magazine. The first episode dealt with Operation Tailwind. But not the actual Operation Tailwind. Rather it focused on what turned out to be an elaborate conspiracy theory created around the myth that the US government deliberately stranded Soldiers in Vietnam. Essentially making them missing in action. The story quickly fell apart and did major damage to CNN’s reputation. The whole thing is detailed in an excellent book by Professor Jerry Lembcke: CNN’s Tailwind Tale: Inside Vietnam’s Last Great Myth.
Here’s the live stream so you can see if the President can stay on script or whether he compounds last week’s unforced errors with some new ones.
Open thread!
Bailey
No way do I have the constitution to watch Trump in real time do anything, but I’ve got my money on him fucking this up somehow in ways that are impossible to fully predict.
Adam L Silverman
One teleprompter, middle of the room. Really big text already loaded.
Adam L Silverman
For those wondering, Gary Rose was able to retire at the rank of captain (O3) because he began his service as enlisted personnel. So between his original service that culminated as a Green Beret non-commissioned officer combined with his service as an officer (he was an artillerist), he was able to make it to the required years of service total to be eligible for retirement.
The Moar You Know
Trump literally will not be able to understand why anyone would do or say this. And I’ll bet he says something that will prove that beyond a doubt.
ETA: also, Rose survived the proverbial goat rodeo. I’m surprised so few people were killed.
gvg
i fear what Trump will say when there are already conspiracy theories in the air.
A Ghost To Most
All props to Gary Rose. Let’s hope his ceremony goes without a Rump moment.
rikyrah
Trump Supporters Are Being Set Up to Dismiss His Ties to Russia
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 23, 2017
If you avoid right wing media, you might not be aware of the story that has them all galvanized right now, a remake of the old one about how the Russians bribed the Clintons to sell off 20 percent of America’s uranium. It’s the lie Peter Schweitzer tried to sell in his book, Clinton Cash, which has been repeatedly fact-checked since he and Bannon conned the New York Times into buying it in 2015.
The reason this whole nonsense has been resurrected is because a reporter named John Solomon has been writing about it at The Hill almost daily for the last week. To understand what’s up, it is helpful to know a little bit about his background. From 1987 until 2006 Solomon worked as a reporter for the Associated Press. Here is how Josh Marshall summarized his reputation among fellow journalists.
His position at The Hill started this past summer.
There are a couple of stories prior to this one that Solomon is known for. Back in 2006, while working for AP, he attempted to smear Harry Reid by suggesting he had ties to Jack Abramhoff. In doing so, he wrote about contacts between the two but failed to mention that the former majority leader voted against the bills Abramhoff was pushing.
After his arrival at The Hill, Solomon was able to weaponize a story about how James Comey’s memos documenting his conversations with Trump contained classified information. That one made the rounds among right wing news sites. To demonstrate how that story was completely debunked, even Fox News issued a retraction. Even so, Solomon maintains a consistent presence on that network.
raven
A redleg mustang, interesting that he doesn’t have a unit patch on his right shoulder.
Elizabelle
No can do. I don’t do Trump.
But congratulations to Gary Ross. I wish that you could have been awarded this medal by a real patriot, but that does not take away from what Ross did.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: Never heard of a goat rodeo. ????
rikyrah
Suddenly, “patriotic” Trump supporters have NO problem w/ a man who used FIVE draft deferments to avoid war fighting with a pregnant widow. pic.twitter.com/9Nxpz4ZWoq
— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) October 23, 2017
Major Major Major Major
Can’t wait to hear about how trump makes this about himself and ruins it. ??
hueyplong
Congrats to Ross. Would definitely watch if it weren’t likely that I’d see and hear Trump.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: A close reading of his most recent article actually makes it clear that 1) nothing illegal happened, including with the Clinton Foundation, 2) Secretary Clinton was being targeted by the Russians, but that the FBI was able to thwart Russian attempts, and 3) it does not appear/no evidence was presented that indicates that Secretary Clinton even knew she was being targeted and that the FBI was actively working to disrupt the network targeting her.
M. Bouffant
I wish this Cap’t. Rose had enough courage left to tell Trump to shove all his disrespect for America & those who have served. That would be a moment!
Adam L Silverman
@raven: The new, blue class A’s don’t have those. They’ll all be on the right breast under the name tag.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah:
Wapiti
@Elizabelle: that’s the tame version. A cluster-f*** is a goat-f*** is a goat-rope is a goat-rodeo. Everything going bad; up, down, and sideways.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Trump looks like a goon standing there. He looks like he’d rather be somewhere else. He’ll fuck this up. Poor Ross.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Rose. It’s Rose.
Eric NNY
@Wapiti: I had 12 goats this summer before I sold the kids. I can tell you, trying to round up 12 goats is for sure a cluster-f***. Goat-rodeo is a very accurate colloquialism.
raven
@Adam L Silverman: I see it now, at lesat it’s not one of them velcroed things they wear now!
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Those are just on the ACUs.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: I lol’d at work!
Ocotillo
Folks the MOH recipient is named Rose not Ross. Don’t pull a Trump and mess up a guy’s name.
Ian G.
@The Moar You Know: I’ve read that many MOH recipients feel awkward/guilty about receiving it. They often feel that some or many others who died on the battlefield were just as worthy of it.
Meanwhile, the orange disgrace will probably talk about how he would have received one if only he could have gone to Vietnam like he wanted to.
Mike in NC
Trump will talk about himself for 10 minutes (amazing golfing last weekend!) and then wander away from the podium without even mentioning Sergeant Whats-His-Name.
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: How is it that people like this are allowed to fail upwards so consistently? > : <
hueyplong
Sorry, I lazily copied a post for the name and was unlucky enough to copy one with the mistake.
Apologies to Rose and to people who aren’t fond of FUBARed posts.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca: wingnut welfare. The Peter Principle writ large.
Ocotillo
Well he (tRump) got through it without causing a major f**k up. Very low bar but at least he can read a prompter and keep his yap shut long enough to not make a circus out of such a ceremony.
Spanky
@Ian G.: My guess is that he’ll float the idea that maybe he should give himself one for not getting VD during his partying days back in the 80s. It was his personal Viet Nam, ya know.
geg6
My congratulations go out to MOH recipient Rose. But I’d rather stick chopsticks in my ears and eyes than look or listen to that cretin squatting in the Oval Office.
A Ghost To Most
@Mike in NC: Rump will probably leave without bestowing the medal, given his track record.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Why are they doing a prayer? Do they always do that at these ceremonies
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
Whoops.
Ocotillo
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Adam probably knows but I would imagine the recipient can make the call on that. Rose made the sign of the cross at the end of the prayer indicating he is likely an observant Catholic.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: He was useful at AP because he did access journalism to conservatives/the GOP. When he left them he went to the Washington Times. From their Sinclair. From Sinclair to The Hill. Washington Times and Sinclair appear to be natural ideological fits for him. Other than The Hill straddling the fence so much they’re chafed straight down to their DNA, I’m not sure why they’d pick him up. But at the end of the day it’s all connections.
Adam L Silverman
@hueyplong: @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: It happens.
Schlemazel
@Ian G.:
I am unable to wrap my mind around what the experience of combat affects a person. As bad as that it how much worse would it be to see bravery and extraordinary courage all around & then be singled out like this. There has to be some sorrow and guilt to go with the pride. I doubt I have it in me to perform in such circumstances.
OTOH, I can’t stand the thought of receiving an honor like this from Major Bone Spur
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: @Ocotillo: Pretty standard. These things are scripted. There’s a protocol manual for them. The chaplain in this case was the US Army Chief of Chaplains: Chaplain (Major General) Hurley. MG Hurley is a Roman Catholic priest. My good friend and former colleague, the now retired USAWC chaplain, also a RC priest, speaks very highly of him. CPT (ret) Rose is a Roman Catholic, so this was appropriate. For a MOH award having the Chief of Chaplains do a non-denominational prayer to open and close the ceremony is standard. However, had the recipient been another religion or denomination he could have requested a chaplain from his own faith. Or no chaplain and no prayers at all. The Army has worked very, very hard at making these types of things inclusive and non-denominational.
hellslittlestangel
@Ocotillo: The Orange Better One not making a complete ass of himself was when he truly became the president.
SFAW
@Eric NNY:
WTF kind of parent are you? Selling your children, just so you can keep your goats?
Waitaminnit … “Eric”? From NY? Your father is some fake real estate “billionaire”? Well, that explains your parenting style, I guess.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
Holy crap, WANT.
For the love of God mister president, make this not about you, just this once.
SFAW
@Schlemazel:
He got promoted, he’s now General Disaster.
Adam L Silverman
I’m watching a whole group of reporters questioning Gen Dunford. Apparently Sarah Huckabee Sanders was wrong. Who knew?
raven
Chair of the Joint Chiefs is held a presser.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Yep a Marine 4 star being questioned by a room full of people. Who could imagine such a thing in the US?
Suffragette City
The irony of a Vietnam vet receiving Medal of Honor from this bone spur draft dodger is HUGE
Listening to JCOS now. At least he comes across as honest even though you can tell the politics involved in some of his answers.
sempronia
Adam, could you please not capitalize “soldier” when you’re using it as a common noun? It’s been grating on me for a while. As we’ve been discussing for the last few days, the military already gets enough glorification.
Adam L Silverman
@Suffragette City:
He’s not going to say anything that might be classified. He’s also not going to say anything that is going to prejudge the inquiry. The lesson has been learned from the Pat Tillman communication fiasco. As for anything dealing with the President he’s going to answer without answering.
Adam L Silverman
@sempronia: In my line of work it is supposed to be capitalized. Please see page 11:
http://www.dimoc.mil/documents/styleGuide/StyleGuide-141017.pdf
Sailor, Airman, and/or Marine are on page 11, page 8, and page 4 respectively.
Feebog
General Dunford is doing a very credible job answering press questions.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: This is something that drives me irrationally bonkers. Gen Schoomaker can GFH.
Schlemazel
@SFAW:
AKA Major disappointment, General Mayhem, Corporal Punishment
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman
Wrong in general or about something specific? Long list I imagine
d58826
jUST A couple of thoughts.
It is maddening to see bone-spur Trump awarding this medal. I realize he is POTUS and that’s the way it is but he flipped off his Vietnam years so casually plus the events of the past week just makes it maddening
Listening to Gen. Dunford on the Niger incident. He is answering a lot of questions but mostly he doesn’t have answers at the moment. All of which is understandable because the investigation is still underway. It will be interesting to hear FAUX news and the rest of the right wingers yell conspiracy and ‘the lying general’ when it turns out that some of what he said today changes. But I guess conspiracy theories only apply to Benghazi and Hillary. I think the General should get an A for standing up there and trying to answer questions as best he can while the details are still in flux.
And just an additional thought on Benghazi. One of the RWNJ complaints is that they didn’t get air cover over the consulate. And yet it took an hour to get French aircraft on scene when the jets are stationed relative close to the battle site.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Schoomaker was a pretty decent guy.
The issue here is that I have certain things I do because of professional writing/writing I do in my professional life. It is ingrained. I try to keep the acronyms to both a minimum and in parentheses here so as not to lose too many people. I understand why some of this upsets you and/or others here. But it is unrealistic for you all to expect me to police my writing of the professional stylistic requirements. I’m not trying to be unsympathetic, but I don’t get paid for writing here. I don’t have an editor I can submit stuff to so they can tweak stuff. And I write stuff here around my other responsibilities.
raven
@sempronia:Oh heavens, not grating. Call an ambulance.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel:
The Lodger
@Schlemazel: Don’t forget Colonel Knowledge…
The Lodger
@The Lodger: … or Private Parts.
sempronia
@Adam L Silverman: You’re writing for a more general audience here than in your line of work.
Ugh – I don’t want to restart the flame wars of the last few days. Everything you write is carefully considered, so I know it’s a conscious decision to capitalize it. But for this regular citizen, the usage jumps out as unnecessarily elevating a common noun to a title, and in the context of today’s over-deference to anything military, it grates even more.
FlipYrWhig
@The Lodger: Or Colonel Angus. All the womenfolk just love Col. Angus.
raven
@sempronia: So don’t fucking read it.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
I could be your editor. I like editing things
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
Because of my early work I dealt with a few flag officers. Not as many or as closely as you have but more than a couple & close enough. I find it interesting when a Marine 4 Star would put up with much of a grilling. Maybe that is what separates the 4s from the 1 & 2s I worked with, they know how to take it and answer well. Most in my experience bristled if anyone confronted them. It seemed like a bad trait for the position, If it were me (besides being a disaster for the command) I would want unvarnished truth & people with the ability to tell me I was screwing up if they thought I was.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: Sure. Still drives me nuts. And nobody pays me to complain about it here, I do it for free.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: @The Lodger: @FlipYrWhig: I knew a Major Ariaolah. Not kidding.
Corner Stone
@Schlemazel:
Human nature says you’d welcome that about twice. And then you’d start looking for postings around the North Pole for the next guy that tried it on.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I appreciate the offer. But I’m not being paid and I’m not going to ask you to do unpaid work here either.
Schlemazel
@raven:
I’m OK with his asking & stating his case. I think Adam’s explanation made his position clear and understandable. Hopefully Semipronia can get over it. If not, its their loss so what do we care? You seem to be taking it harder than Adam.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: I’ve been fortunate in working for/with some very good ones. But remember, I’ve done direct or supporting work for, maybe, a dozen total ranging from one to four stars. I know of a few more who are, based on what friends and colleagues say, good at what they do/good people. But as several folks here have indicated there is a lot of variation among this cohort. I watched one, who is now a four star, look right in my boss’s face (senior to him in service, but, unfortunately stuck below him in rank), and just lie with a straight face on something exceedingly important. I’ve seen colonels move up that I would never expect to be suited for service as a general officer. And I’ve had students make general officer who well deserve the promotions. And I’ve had students that should have and didn’t for whatever reason while those that shouldn’t did. General officers/flag officers are like any group of professionals. There’s a fair amount of variation.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: And you’re getting what you pay for out of the experience.
FlipYrWhig
@Adam L Silverman: I’m guessing Major Ariaolah was known to be… sensitive.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: @Corner Stone: The most important thing anyone can do is provide whoever they’re working for, or in the military their commanding officer, what they need to know. Not what they want to hear. Not what they want to know. It should be done forcefully, but professionally and politely. Those who do not or cannot are of no use what so ever. My former boss used to referred to officers/staffers like this as The Legion of Frightened Men.
Schlemazel
@Corner Stone:
Maybe but I don’t think so. In my work I love to be challenged. The best times have been when I had a team of people with me who all wanted to make their point & argue with logic. One memorable moment was when trying to recover from an early disaster for some work we did or the Dept of the Navy. There were 4 of us & we reviewed the requirements, what went wrong to that point & how to recover. It was heated, we raised our voices & sometime talked over each other but it was never personal, it was alway arguing technical points. What came out was much better than any of us could have done on our own. Had I gone with just my position we would have had more problems.
Now, there are times in the military when I assume you do as told & not question but those moment probably don’t happen as often among the stars around a desk in the Pentagon as they do with folks with stripes in the shit.
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
so, the military is just like every other line of work that way?
Adam L Silverman
@FlipYrWhig: Didn’t know him well. He was at the Continental Redeployment Center at Benning pulling gear at the same time my teammates and I were predeployment. I remember from when they called his name the first time and everyone, out of the couple of hundred folks in attendance, all stifled a snicker.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: What happens in the team room stays in the team room.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: A little stiff at times, depending.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: Pretty much.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: When he had a point.
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
I LOVE that, “the legion of Frightened Men” and am so going to steal it.
BTW – my current boss is a reserve O-4 and he has made it very clear to me I am required to tell him what I know & point out if I think he is screwing up. Part of that is he is new to our organization but I know he is the type of guy that can handle the truth. I like him a lot and he is a huge change from my last boss who had to be told they were great and wonderful and perfect and always right.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: I learned early on that the people at the top did not want to hear the truth. They had already made up their minds based on what the person(s) they hated wanted the outcome to be.
So they just paid millions to consultants to tell them what everyone already knew.
M. Bouffant
@SFAW: Corporal Punishment is more like it.
SgrAstar
@FlipYrWhig: Don’t forget Col. Onoscopy….running for cover…
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: If you need any strategic support, you know how to reach me.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: I’ve seen that happen. It is unfortunate. And usually dangerous.
J R in WV
@Ocotillo:
I know people who cross themselves, who are obviously devout, but not Roman Catholic at all. Episcopal, Orthodox, really, many Christians being overcome in the moment.
Ruckus
@d58826:
I know drumpf was able to and a big enough ass to make light of it but getting out of going to fight a shitty war that never should have been? Yes I enlisted. I’m a Vietnam era vet. I wasn’t sent to Vietnam. Pure luck. Had I not enlisted my lottery number, pulled about a month after I enlisted, was 15 and I was 1A. I was going. Yes I have friends who had no way to avoid the draft, or even make up bullshit excuses. Over 58 thousand men and 8 women died. It was a huge milestone in the lives of people alive then, some took it well and some not so well. People served honorably, people went to jail for draft evasion or fled their country. People had questioned their country before this, but never to the degree. I had friends who got out of the draft, I didn’t blame them. I knew people who protested and resisted, I didn’t blame them. Men I went to HS with are on the memorial, the wall.
I care that drumpf is so callous and shitty about his not going. That he, like millions of others his age who also didn’t go, no, I don’t care. It is what it was, not a great time in our history, to fight a war that had no basis, no need, to kill what, a million or so people, for nothing, to render a huge part of that country barren with agent orange, napalm, explosives. For nothing. And as a nation we learned nothing, and did it again. And we probably won’t learn from the current adventures either. No I don’t blame someone for avoiding that, even if he avoided it for all the wrong reasons and was and is a complete fucking asshole about it and makes fun of people who couldn’t buy their way out. I don’t blame him, I do hate him however. And I don’t like hating, it isn’t healthy and it pisses me off at myself. But I do hate him do not misunderstand that. But blame him for this one thing? No. At least he has one human trait, self survival. Does it makes him less a citizen? It would if most went and he bought his way out, but that’s not the way it worked. I have a friend who is highly allergic to bee stings, he ended up 4F. I am allergic as well but didn’t know that it could get me out and couldn’t afford the lawyer anyway.
I just don’t care if he didn’t serve. How many people on this blog didn’t serve? My point is that if we are going to make citizenship dependent upon military or national service then we need a compulsory draft, everyone goes, does service of some kind for some time. Without that and given our structure and beginnings we are citizens at birth or naturalization and national service is not required for that. He is like it or not, a citizen. A shitty one sure, but a citizen.
sukabi
@rikyrah: so true, but these people are also the same ones that question your patriotism while flying the confederate flag and pushing for their state to secede…
Not a whole lot of thinking going on in their brain pans.
Karen
@Ruckus: I lost friends, relatives to Vietnam; the worst for me is my cousin he was a pow for a short time and it cost him his sanity. He looks fine, was never wounded physically but it isn’t safe for him to leave the farm or be around those who aren’t family.
What gets me about the bone spur excuse is that he was playing sports at the time; he bought his way out of a war fine, many couldn’t.
I also had a friend who objected to the war, he was given a choice nursing home for three years or goodwill for four years; there were some alternatives but many didn’t even know about them. Though one man I knew said that he knew and figured that getting shot at was better than changing bed pans, he would kind of laugh when he said it, since he only got shot a couple of times but got dumped on by Agent Orange, twice.
The Lodger
@Ruckus: Yeah. “You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – the most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” ” was a lesson I thought we’d learned, then it turned into just another line from a movie. Plus, for a while I thought our country had matured beyond outright racism. No such luck.
gbbalto
@Ruckus: Very well and eloquently put. Full disclosure: I lived in Canada at the time (moved there when I was 8) and didn’t have to register for the draft. I turned 18 at the end of 1972; could have gone but the war made no sense. My father was a WWII vet who opposed that war. His only sibling was a LTC in the USAF. His C-130 went down between Hue and Da Nang (I think) not from enemy fire but because an air traffic controller (probably exhausted) vectored his plane into a mountain so his name is on the Wall (as legitimate a casualty as anyone). I used to know a guy who deserted from the Army rather than go there, on principle. I condemn no one for not going there, unless they think that it was a great idea as long as their own asses were not in danger. Sorry, too much rant
Ruckus
@Karen:
First, I am very sorry about your cousin. No personal experience but I’ve sat on a locked ward in a military hospital with men who will never be the same or in any way normal. They live, their lives are lost. I’ve been to VA counseling recently and seen men who look normal and men who don’t. And of course many of them live with this pain every day. In one exercise we had to sit and stare at the man next to us. I don’t rattle easily but this shell of a man scared me. There was no one there and yet there were demons, the likes of which I will never understand. I was once a suicide counselor and have sweated out discussions in person and over the phone that left me saddened and shaken and it was nothing like this. I know several black men who all served in country and were exposed to agent orange and have cancer from it. Very aggressive cancers, which they at high risk for. All of them my age. Nine men from my small home town are on the wall.
My dues wasn’t as high as many but it’s been paid.
drumpf is several levels below a despicable human. But I understand the get out however you can motivation. I though about moving to Canada. I thought about saying fuck it and not reporting. But I like my country, warts and all. I want to make it better. I want to live here. But how many others did similar as drumpf?
I just find it extremely hard to fault those that had a way and took it, assholes or not. Yes I”d bet all of his money that he lied, that his doctor was paid to lie and that it’s all bullshit. Everything else about him is. I still don’t care. It’s been 48 contentious years since I joined the navy. I’ve lost that part of me that gives a shit about 48 yrs ago and what it all means. I’ve seen men who haven’t and what it’s done to them. Nothing can change that history.
Besides, if he had been drafted I’d bet his dad still could have gotten him into OCS and I’d have bet that people would have gotten in trouble for the fragging they would have given him. And believe me they would have given him a doozy. Probably within the first week, second at the latest. He’s the kind of guy who never, ever walked alone topside under way. For all you would have heard, about ten minutes too late would have been a very faint, a mere whisper at most, “man overboard.” And that would be if you were standing there at the time. And no captain worth a shit would have turned the ship around to look for him anyway, because he knew the timing, the reason and that shipboard morale would go up 100%. He might have turned the ship around in circles for 20 minutes to say he searched and protect himself, but it would take him 15 minutes to make that decision.
Ptocopius
@Ruckus. I agree with and applaud your eloquent statement. I was a “lifer,” did my time in Vietnam in a wide-area signals battalion centered on Pleiku, which was a quiet area at the time. I remember that the feeling was very widespread that it was OK to desert. In fact the Army stopped prosecuting deserters. I still feel contempt for Trump and, even more, Ted Nugent, though.
Ruckus
@gbbalto:
No it’s not. I’m only sorry that we highjacked the post about someone who did go and got a medal of honor for his efforts.
But it’s all a part of that war. The medals, the dead, the wounded, the war itself, the military greatness obsession. Someone on this thread discussed how the Australians look at military service. As something that’s done, not as a marker of being a man. Which of course doesn’t work so well for half the population.
The Vietnamese have seemingly moved on with their lives, maybe we should as well.
Would we even be having these discussions if HRC was president? I didn’t think so. We’d be having others of course but how do you think she would have handled giving this award? Would you have been holding your breath that she would have fucked it up? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Ruckus
@Ptocopius:
I feel far more than contempt. It’s only this one thing, this draft thing that I don’t care about. I’d forgotten the not prosecuting deserters thing. I haven’t forgotten the amnesty for those who asked for refuge in Canada.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
There sure was a wide range of officers that I dealt with. From 01 through 05, my experience was that a very few were very good, some were acceptable and could handle the job and the rest were useless fucks that couldn’t be trusted with a weekly shopping list. Now we are talking junior officers, but they were in charge of a lot of people, deadly equipment and lives.