Q: Should you be more civil?
Trump: Press makes me more uncivil than I am… I went to an Ivy League college. I'm a very intelligent person pic.twitter.com/x2sYu4tYV2— David Mack (@davidmackau) October 25, 2017
If you have to tell people you’re ‘very intelligent’, you’ve already proved you aren’t. Alex Finley explains to Politico “Why Trump’s Team Was Easy Prey for Putin”:
By now, it should be clear to anyone following the news that Russian intelligence made a formidable effort to approach the Trump campaign and assess the potential to manipulate its members. As a former officer of the CIA’s Directorate of Operations, I can tell you that Russian security services would have been derelict not to evaluate the possibility of turning someone close to Trump. While the question of collusion remains open, it’s beyond dispute that Russia tried to get people around the president to cooperate. The June 2016 meeting in Trump Tower is indication enough, but other encounters bolster the argument.
How do you get someone to do something they should not do?
Generally, an intelligence officer looks for a person’s vulnerabilities and explores ways to exploit them. It usually comes down to four things, which—in true government style—the CIA has encompassed in an acronym, MICE: Money, Ideology, Coercion, Ego. Want to get someone to betray his country? Figure out which of these four motivators drives the person and exploit the hell out of it…
From an intelligence point of view, the people surrounding Trump, and Trump himself, make easy targets for recruitment. This is not to say these people have definitely been recruited by Russian intelligence—and they’ve all denied it repeatedly—but you can be sure that Russia’s intelligence services took these factors into consideration when they approached the campaign…
Paul Manafort: Money
Anyone who has lobbied on behalf of leaders ranging from Zaire’s Mobutu Sese Seko to the Philippines’ Ferdinand Marcos to Equatorial Guinea’s Teodoro Obiang likely has no set ideology or moral compass and is motivated primarily by making money. People like this make very good targets. There is no emotion involved. Getting the person to do something is a fairly straightforward transaction…Donald Trump Jr.: Money, Ego
Junior is a lot like dad in his need to feel important. He was certainly a target because he manages access to his father, and his arrogance makes him easy to read…Donald Trump: Ego…
Ego is clearly the best way to get Trump to do anything. The Saudis certainly understood this, feting him with gold and orbs and displaying his enormous portrait on the side of a hotel, right next to the king’s portrait…Trump’s ego wanted to win and, he figured, everyone else wanted him to win, too. He was under the impression that everyone loved him and appreciated his greatness. Of course everyone wanted to help him win. If he accepted help from Russia, it’s possible he didn’t realize there was anything wrong with doing so. Why wouldn’t they help him win, he might have thought, and why shouldn’t he accept that help? For an experienced chekist like Putin, manipulating his ego is almost too easy…
The Golux
I’ve come to the realization that the TSG’s relentless tweeting reminds me of a flasher: He keeps showing you his junk when it’s the last thing you want to see.
Also, has anyone noticed that all Republicans have the same middle name as Bucky Dent?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
When the archeologists dig this up they’ll either laugh or cry.
rikyrah
They are treasonous cretins with no morals.
There. That’s your article.
MisterForkbeard
But remember, according to Devin Nunes “It’s now clear the Democrats made it possible for Russia to subvert the 2016 election”.
Because they (and republicans and the FBI) all funded the Steele Dossier.
Major Major Major Major
Yeah, pretty much.
germy
Here’s a dumb headline on my local TV news website:
Trump: Clinton team funding for Russia is a disgrace
Now the dumbshits who leave foxnews talking points in the comments sections are convinced “Clinton gave money to Russia to cheat Trump”
Major Major Major Major
@germy: So far they’ve been far too uncoordinated and lazy to pull off anything remotely resembling a big lie in the vein of “Sadaam caused 9/11” or such, so that’s good at least.
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard: How do you un-recuse yourself when you’ve already stated that you have a conflict of interett?????
HeleninEire
Want a Mary Update? Well. Here it is.
Had a conference call with my family which consists of my older sister JoAnn, my Dad, and Mary’s caregivers. Gotta say, my family are not stand up people. When my brother Vinny was dying of cancer 7 years ago, JoAnn pretended that it wasn’t happening. But that was the first time my Dad was a stand up person. Cuz Vinny was his favourite. And that’s OK, cuz he was my favourite too. He was my best friend.
Anyway, Mary. Looks like this is a meds thing. But let me tell you about Mary. She was born in 1967. She had a hole in her heart. Those stupid people in the hospital missed it. Today, my father would own that fucking hospital. Anyway they sent her home. Maybe, 6 months later my parents realized she was not like other babies. She didn’t scream when she cried. She wimpered cuz she could not breath. So they tested her and said to my mother “Take her home. Give her a bottle every hour.” Not because they thought Mary needed a bottle every hour, but because they thought she would die that night and they wanted my mother to be awake when it happened. So my mother did that. But Mary didn’t die. The hole in her heart fixed itself. But they oxygen to the brain was compromised.
But, back to today. They just changed Mary’s b/c pills for heavy periods. They say she doesn’t need them anymore. Maybe not for that, but the regulating of her meds included the b/c pills. So the question to my family was “Shall we get her back on the b/c pills?” Cancer runs in my family – oh wait I didn’t tell you up tread that my mother died of breast cancer at 37. I was 12. Mary was 7. But still my answer was yes. JoAnn and Dad are still thinking about it. So. Dunno. But I gotta tell you, both my Dad and JoAnn said don’t leave Ireland. That’s where you belong. So, family comes through.. Who knew.
Mike in NC
Last night’s Frontline report, called “Putin’s Revenge, Part 1”, showed how the Russian strongman sized up Dubya and quickly figured out that religion was a weak spot he could penetrate. Hence Bush stating that he was able to “read his soul” or some such nonsense after an early meeting between the two. Next week they’ll look at how Putin was able to roll Trump and his assorted flunkies.
germy
@Major Major Major Major: They’re working on their talking points.
Ironing out the wrinkles. They’ll fan out tomorrow onto all the TV shows and repeat some bullshit verbatim.
LongHairedWeirdo
Yes – the thing that scares me most about Trump, and Jr., and Kushner is that they *think* they’re sharp. They *think* they’re on top of the world. They probably *think* they could play Russia.
Now, me, I’ll confess: I can’t play in that league. But I’d like to think my self-honesty is such that even if I could play in that league, I’d be aware that the people who think they’re best able to play the other guy is the person most easy to play. Almost every famous confidence game relies on the mark thinking that they’re in the driver’s seat.
Was it Kushner who wanted the back channel to Russia? And everyone went on TV to point out that it’s not a horrible thing? Even if we assumed purely noble intent – and we can’t! – it’s still a way to *beg* to be played. You *need* intelligence oversight to remind you that you’re being a chump when you are. (And if you’re not – they lose interest. So if they’re interested, hell, yeah, you’re a chump.)
gratuitous
“How do you get someone to do something they should not do?”
It’s really pretty easy when you’re dealing with a bunch of dummies who don’t know what they shouldn’t be doing. The Trump campaign was chock full of babes in the woods who didn’t have the first clue about what was and wasn’t legal for campaign workers to do. “Gee, in the business of Manhattan real estate and development, we’d just do something incredibly illegal, then grease a few palms with the authorities, and forge on.”
That doesn’t work so much in a presidential campaign.
tobie
@MisterForkbeard: Everything today has the feeling of that last week in October when Comey publicly reopened the investigation of Clinton’s emails, leakers in the FBI exonerated Trump of any wrong-doing with Russia, Podesta and Company continued to be slammed for material in wikileaks, etc. Russia must be involved in this latest scheme. Nunes is too stupid to cook it up himself. If we can’t find a way to fend off this latest avalanche, I don’t know what the future of the republic is. It’s that dire.
BTW: Has there been any reporting on how in the same week that the house and senate open an investigation on Clinton and the sale of uranium, the info about Fusion GPS funding comes out?
Elizabelle
@HeleninEire: Do not leave Ireland.
But no one said anything about not crossing the pond to see Mary and your family, from time to time.
The staff is learning too, and perhaps they’ll remember this when dealing with another postmenopausal patient.
Last, that’s sad; that Mary might have started as a more normally-gifted baby, but the oxygen deprivation took away her chances. Thank Dog so much progress since 1967, and still miles to go.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: I think his stated reasoning is that he only recused himself from the ONE russian investigation so he can get involved in other russian investigations. And also that he voluntarily recused, so he can voluntarily un-recuse at any time.
MisterForkbeard
@HeleninEire: That sounds like an awful situation (and a truly awful story about your sister’s infancy) – thank you for the update, and I hope everything turns out okay.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
My Dad just brought up the “optics” of the Steele Dossier produced by Fusion GPS being funded by Democrats and Hillary’s Campaign. Anyone care to give me talking points on why this whole thing is bullshit? I haven’t had the chance to read much about it.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: They haven’t been able to accomplish anything that requires talking points so far, but I guess there’s a first time for everything.
Immanentize
Dear Cheryl,
Would it be possible for you to give us a post some time of the “Russians gave money to Clinton foundation so later Hillary approved a sale of uranium” story? I just can’t get behind it. Shouldn’t we want Russia to sell us fissionable material? Wasn’t that a huge part of START II? Especially the Ukraine part? Please help, my brain is small.
raven
@HeleninEire: I had a feeling.
Major Major Major Major
The newest batch of JFK files just dropped!
ETA http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/26/politics/jfk-assassination-files-classified-document-release-donald-trump/index.html
MisterForkbeard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: “What do you think the optics are of this being funded by a Republican campaign? Or that the FBI found it so credible that they funded it when the Democrats stopped funding it the day after the election?”
@Major Major Major Major: I’m torn between being really interested and wondering if this is just another distraction (like the Uranium and Steele Dossier things)
Archon
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
The question isn’t who funded the dossier. The question is, are the contents of it true or not?
rikyrah
@HeleninEire:
Thanks for the update. Sending positive thoughts for your family.
Capri
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: It is the universal lament of the abuser. Someone else makes them angry, it is never their fault.
Baud
@HeleninEire: I’m glad you get to stay where you’re happy.
tobie
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: You could begin by explaining that FusionGPS is an oppo research firm first hired by one of Trump’s Republican opponents in the primary. Every campaign hires oppo research firms. Trump’s did, too. (And now they’re trying to peddle a refuted scandal about uranium sales dug up by their oppo research team.) You could also mention that Fusion GPS hired Steele as a subcontractor, not the Clinton campaign, and they had no knowledge of his existence. Finally you could tell him that Steele felt that what he found was so explosive that he went to the FBI himself with the memo. No one in the Clinton campaign seemed to be responding to the info he provided. Since the election the FBI has verified a significant portion of the dossier. I don’t know the full amount.
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: When you have to reach for optics, you got nothing.
Major Major Major Major
@MisterForkbeard:
He had a deadline by law to release the ones he didn’t determine would compromise yadda yadda.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Ask him why he cares more about who footed the bill then the accuracy of what was reported and it’s treasonous implications.
rikyrah
@tobie:
I wasn’t believing that something big is about to drop from Bobby Three Sticks, but, now I do. He is about to explode on them. SOMETHING has happened. We don’t know what, but they are phucking desperate. And, that makes me strangely calm.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Baud: Or what Baud said! (directed to Goku)
LanceThruster
DNC and Fusion GPS.
WaterGirl
@HeleninEire: Holy shit there’s a lot to digest in that comment. I’ll stick with the final paragraph for now.
Do they not know that rule #1 is don’t fuck with complicated meds when they are working? They sent my friend’s sister into a psychotic break when she had surgery because none of the professionals seemed to know that drugs used for anesthesia often mess with drugs that are critical to stability of people with mental illness. So I’m pissed as hell that they just took your sister off her birth control pills, apparently willy nilly. I want to say Jesus fucking christ but I can’t do that because I went to catholic school and you are not allowed to take god’s name in vain. Doesn’t matter if you aren’t catholic anymore, that stuff just sticks with you. So if one of you great swear-ers could think about stepping up and saying that for me, I would greatly appreciate it.
Good on your dad and your sister for supporting you in your life in Ireland!
P.S. If we were co-located I would suggest copious amounts of adult beverages as we discussed paragraphs 2 and 3.
Mary G
@HeleninEire: It’s remarkable how good it can feel to not accept all the responsibility when others are available to help. Glad your family is supporting you staying in Ireland, because you seem happy there. Yay Helen and dad and brother! Such an awful story about Mary. Things like this is why I get so angry when Republicans tout “tort reform” all the time.
waspuppet
At the risk of sounding like I’m making excuses for him, this is extremely plausible. Any examination of the record of Trump’s life yields no evidence that this country is even in his Top 5. But he’ll use it to skate on this, like he’s skated on everything he’s ever done in his “clownish, dipshit, klutzy life” (Mac Wellman, though he wasn’t writing about Trump).
debit
Oh look. It’s our Russian friend, Lance. Hi, comrade!
rikyrah
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
1. The beginning patron of the dossier was A Republican.
2. Said Republican was so disturbed by it- THAT they sent it to the Democrats. They wanted Hillary to know what they had found.
3. Steele, in not so many words, is a WHISTLEBLOWER.
No, someone hired to do opposition research, DOES NOT EVERYDAY, or every decade…SHOW UP ON THE DOORSTEP OF THE FBI saying, ‘I have a story to tell you.’
Show me when that has happened?
4. The CIA, when alerted by their counterparts about Dolt45 and his cabal, they freaked out.
5. Putin is not just some head of another country. HE.USED.TO.RUN.THE.PHUCKING.KGB.
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: I have absolutely no problem thinking Trump would declare anything he wanted as a national security secret, though. “Required by law” doesn’t seem to really faze him much.
debbie
@Mike in NC:
I thought it was very well done. Did you see their earlier program on Putin (“Putin’s Way”)?
MisterForkbeard
@LanceThruster: Jimmy Dore Was Wrong.
There! Just as much proof as was in that video.
Baud
Shorter @rikyrah. The people involved are heroes.
debbie
@HeleninEire:
Glad your family wants you to stay put.
Major Major Major Major
@HeleninEire: Happy to hear your family is supportive of staying in Ireland, it seems to be very good for you.
Wapiti
@rikyrah: I really wish the investigation would throw one of the lesser
minionsfamily members to the New York AG, for morale building and to start sucking funds out of legal defense warchests.Steeplejack
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Ask him about the “optics” of the dossier first being funded by Republicans, identities so far unknown, and why it is that their identities have not come out. Ask him if he, as a savvy news consumer, thinks there’s anything fishy about that. And ask him why Hillary would dig up all this dirt on Trump and then not use it during the campaign.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MisterForkbeard:
His response, playing devil’s advocate, that’s why they fired Comey.
MisterForkbeard
@Wapiti: They’re waiting until the AG’s that Trump personally interviewed are installed, I’m sure.:P
tobie
@rikyrah: thank you for these soothing words! I need to learn how to keep calm, especially as my health has not been the best of late.
rikyrah
@Wapiti:
How do we know that he hasn’t.
Mike in NC
@debbie: No, have not seen that program but will look for it ‘on demand’.
Elizabelle
Seriously OT, and long, but found this nugget for Ms. Bianca on the previous thread, and have to share.
@Miss Bianca: You will love this.
Suspected GHWBush mistress was named Jennifer Fitzgerald, who had been a longtime Bush aide and was named to a good job at the Dept. of State. Got into a scandal about sneaking a fur into the country through Customs. Anyway, the WaPost one day, on its Federal Pages:
Coffee spitting time. Read the story out loud to the whole office. Aha — here’s confirmation from People magazine, 1992, on the eve of the Republican convention:
People magazine: George Bush Confronts a Rumor
I had never seen the People magazine story, but it was pre-internet for our office, and folks used to think People was kind of trashy/celebrity fluff. (Alas, it was just ahead of its time.)
Note that they misspell Hillary Clinton’s name.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: You actually clicked? Brave.
MisterForkbeard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: My response, playing Devil’s Advocate: Trump explicitly said he fired Comey to shut down the Russian Investigation, so your father is accidentally right. Comey was trying to pursue an honest investigation into Russian Election Interference.
If you want, you can note that Comey gave Trump preferential treatment in terms of FBI investigations. He needlessly (and against policy) made public statements and judgments on Hillary multiple times while the investigation was ongoing, re-opened it publicly (against policy) just before the election, and never once confirmed or announced anything about the far-more-serious investigation into Trump’s Russian ties.
All evidence is that Comey was in Trump’s corner, not Hillary’s. If he agreed to fund the Steele Dossier’s research, that’s just an indication of how scary and reliable the information was.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Yeah. They’re freaking. Even more than usual.
Tonight’s lead story on NBC: The Opioid Crisis.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I wanted to give him a chance before he got pied. It was… an incredibly stupid, misinformed conspiracy theory with no evidence and lots of Hillary hate. So basically par for the course.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard:
Wasn’t he on the Whitewater investigation?
mike in dc
Bob Mueller’s investigation is a black box, but it seems likely that most of the congressional investigations into Trump Russia will conclude by early to mid 2018.
MisterForkbeard
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Further note, if your dad honestly believes in all of this (like, not actually playing Devil’s Advocate) then you should get him into an anti-brainwashing program.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I don’t understand his response.
debbie
@Mike in NC:
If you can’t find it wherever they store on demand, it’s on youtube. It goes into more detail about his early career as well as his shenanigans with Chechnya. My one complaint about last night’s report is that it was light on those wars.
SatanicPanic
ooh I like this
Democrats have some good ideas!
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: He was. Anecdotal evidence since has said that he regarded Bill and Hillary as guilty people who got away with it and wanted to nail them for something.
In this case, I’d remember that the plural of “anecdote” is not “data”, so that’s unreliable. But it does fit with his behavior over the following years.
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: From what I can tell, his dad is saying they fired Comey because he was so in the tank for Hillary/against Trump that he funded a Democratic hit job against him.
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Did you listen to his announcement? He sounded more like he was announcing a game show than an initiative to combat a health crisis.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: I tend to be quicker than most people when it comes to dismissing people for lack of credibility. In my defense, I am usually correct.
Major Major Major Major
@MisterForkbeard: Huh.
@Baud: I’m extremely fast to pie somebody but have essentially a 100% success rate at picking out trolls here.
debbie
@SatanicPanic:
You sound surprised.
Major Major Major Major
Evidence continues to mount that Ivanka Trump does not, in fact, know how to use words
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t pie, even though your filer is excellent. I have never pied.
rikyrah
@MisterForkbeard:
That, too, made sense on a general level. But the focus is even clearer. The office of Preet Bahara didn’t Stop working after he was fired. We now know this week, that they have been working hard- with a laser focus on Manafort. Yes, they are desperate.
Even the tax cuts. Hear from LarryO that something this big takes over a year to do, , so why the rush. They are terrified of something. Something is about to happen.
SatanicPanic
@debbie: Oops, trying to sound like a booster. I wasn’t sure if that sounded too corny or not, I guess people are so jaded that me loudly proclaiming they’re awesome comes off as snark.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Heh.
HeleninEire
@raven: Yah. Post me a pic. The pic outside he bakery. My favourite pic of all of BJ> Lil bit to the left. Bhodi the right saying YES YES DADAY.I AM A GOOD BOY. I can sit quiet et to my brother. Take me home. Look how good I can be!!!!!!!
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I usually don’t block people, but I unfriended/blocked a few people on Facebook during October of last year and I found it made me much less stressed out in general. Maybe I’ll get a little more on the blockwagon now. Then again, it’s not hard to spot obvious trolls here.
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah. Like I was saying in another comment, if his dad actually believes this parallel-universe conspiracy theory, he needs to go to anti-brainwashing therapy. The whole thought construction is incredibly flimsy and rests on never being wrong about anything, even in the cases where you’ve already been proven wrong.
Emma
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: “Dad, I’m sorry I can’t make you see how they’re using people like you to destroy this country. I’m glad I don’t have any kids that will suffer.”
Sigh. No, of course not. Ignore it. I’m in a sour mood today.
Chris T.
Or, as so many have said before him, “My abusiveness is your fault!”
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MisterForkbeard:
That’s pretty much it. He doesn’t believe any of it but thinks that’s how Team Trump will try to spin it and the media will join them.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Cleek wrote the filter, I just… installed it.
Baud
@Emma: I like it.
Elizabelle
@debbie: I’ve trained myself to ignore Trump. Started to hit the remote, but remembered I was watching NBC so I could see the Halperin announcement.
NBC had a good package on the opioid crisis. Only one in ten addicts gets treatment. And someone saying we need a lot more funding (to follow the rhetoric).
Was thinking drug treatment is probably more routinely covered in Europe and Canada (assumption of mine), and they don’t hand out opioids like aspirin either.
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: So he remembers the 2016 election.
Glad to hear your dad isn’t one of them.
eclare
@Major Major Major Major: Saw that earlier and loved it!
debbie
@Baud:
One person pied me, but I haven’t seen him since. I’m disappointed because I wanted to call him all kinds of horrible names, knowing he couldn’t see them.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: @Baud: I am also glad your dad doesn’t believe this shit.
@debbie: lol, who pied you?
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
John D.
Baud
@debbie:
That’s no fun.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I was talking about this with my wife yesterday in regards to the “Democrats funded Steele!” clusterfuck unfolding in the media. Our media is just awful, and it’s incredibly frustrating to see them repeating the mistakes they made in 2016 in an effort to validate their prior behavior.
“SEE? We should have concentrated on Hillary just as much as we did, because look at this bombshell! SHADOWS, PEOPLE!”
No Drought No More
“By now, it should be clear to anyone following the news that Russian intelligence made a formidable effort to approach the Trump campaign and assess the potential to manipulate its members”.
So far, so good. But it does not serve to explain Kushner’s approaching the Russkies with a proposal to open a private, back channel line of communication last January. Does it? Let me rephrase that: doe$ it?
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Good news for Helen.
I think you just did. But given the circumstances I’d bet a just god would more than understand. BTW Even Jesus would have said Jesus Fucking Christ in this instance.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: I don’t think they regard it as a mistake.
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Apparently this new initiative involves zero funds; it only lessens whatever bureaucracy has been slowing down treatment programs.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: I don’t think I know the name.
debbie
@Baud:
Sure it is! You never made goofy faces at the back of your mom’s head when you were a kid?
Baud
@debbie: No.
ETA:. And my mom would never have pied me.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Baud:
@Major Major Major Major:
He’s still something of a both sider and is far too optimistic about bipartisanship. He thinks if we all just come together and sing kumbya all our problems will be fixed. He also has some blind spots on race (believes black should be treated like everyone else, but not treated “better”, ie affirmative action). I keep telling him that it’s more complicated than that and that the GOP and Bannonite Neo-fascists (and their oligarchic supporters) are hellbent on establishing a one-party police state that will attempt to radically change the course of American society. He says Bannon and the GOP will fail. I’m not so sure.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
It was last year at the height of the you-know-who-should-be-the-candidate crisis. I think I said something reasonable and then it was all Katey Bar the Door.
Elizabelle
NBC’s Halperin report immediately followed GHWBush’s apologizing to women whose butts he squeezed or patted. They put up the spokesman’s statement.
WaPost: George H.W. Bush ‘has patted women’s rears’ but never meant to offend, spokesman says
Bush, through his spokesman, has since apologized. In a statement Wednesday evening, McGrath said:
More from the WaPost:
If there is not earlier bad behavior, I’d be inclined to give Dad Bush a pass. If this only started very late in life, and once he was in poor health. The elderly have less filters. Pretty sure Bush’s butt patting days are behind him, after the embarrassing news came out. I dunno …
Steeplejack
@debbie:
How do you know if someone pies you? Other than them telling you, I mean.
Baud
@debbie: That crisis ended?
ColoradoGuy
The thing about the DNC/Hillary funding the Steele dossier is that IT WASN’T USED during the campaign. That’s kind of the whole point of oppo research … to use it, and use it hard and often. That’s why it’s called oppo research. It doesn’t do any damn good if people just sit on it.
Last summer, the Steele dossier was an open secret to the entire DC press corps, and guess what, they didn’t see fit to share it with the US public. The FBI knew about it, and said not a word. The press corps thought it was good enough for cocktail-party talk, but that’s as far as it went. And the DNC and the Hillary campaign didn’t use it either, even though they picked up the support costs after the unknown GOP challenger dropped out.
The 2016 campaign was one of the most successful bait-and-switch operations of all time, and it definitely required the active collusion of the press corps. They deliberately sat on a story that was pretty much the definition of treason, and invented the email scandal out of whole cloth. The New York Times, in particular, looks a lot like the exact same NYT that ginned up the Iraq war fever out of nothing 15 years ago, or the anti-Clinton fever swamp 25 years ago. They don’t change.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: well, screw him.
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: sounds like an alright fella, well within the realm of agreeable disagreement.
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: There are a lot of those folks out there. I wish I knew how to convince them. If Obama’s efforts weren’t enough to show them which side is the problem, I don’t know what will do the trick.
debbie
@Baud:
No, but aside from an occasional flare-up, its intensity has lessened.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
He is most of the time. I just get mad when he falls for stupid shit and becomes a useful idiot.
HeleninEire
Night all. You are the bestest of the bestest. Imagine I was thinking about leaving here, just a day or two ago, I MUST BE HIGH (yeah, I wish)
Really good night my friends. Also, please everyone keep up on what’s up with efgoldman. Very worried.
debbie
@Steeplejack:
He posted that he was pie-ing me.
debbie
Has there been any news today? The search function here is not very productive.
Baud
@HeleninEire: Yeah, I wish he would check in.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: have you tried being mad less? You seem mad a lot.
Elizabelle
Laughing. Just saw a political ad.
[Democratic candidate for Governor] Ralph Northam: his voice clip telling an audience he’s got a D- rating from the NRA.
Voiceover: “That’s wrong. It’s an F.”
And then visuals of Northam saying it’s us against them on the subject of guns. US AGAINST THEM.
Great ad, in the aftermath of the Las Vegas massacre. Sponsored by the NRA.
They are desperate.
Cheryl Rofer
@Immanentize: The fact that they have pulled “Uranium One” up again suggests to me that they are getting desperate. Also the reappearance of Devin Nunes and the accusations about the Steele dossier. It’s all making me crazy too. I keep hoping to be able to write, and they keep coming up with something else.
Media coverage of all these stories is hard to follow. One tiny fact comes out after another, and they don’t always connect them well, then smother whatever may be new with a recap of what is already known. After a while, all the stories look equally confused and pretty much the same. And, of course, the rightwingers dance around, spreading lies as they go.
Here is a fact check article. I think it’s hard to follow. Here’s maybe the best from the Washington Post. Here’s another article that provides a little more information. I have an email in to a colleague who may have written something about this.
There is a lot that is just crazy about this story. The Russian share of the company involved is 20%. That is not the same as 20% of the US uranium supply. The decision was made to allow the Russians to buy that share was made when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, but she probably had nothing to do with the deliberations; nobody has shown that she did.
And there is underlying crazy. NOBODY NEEDS URANIUM NOW, NOR DID THEY WHEN THE DEAL WENT THROUGH.
The market for uranium stinks. Since the 1990s, Russia and the United States have been disassembling their nuclear weapons, which contain highly enriched (>90%) uranium. Most of the use of uranium is in nuclear power reactors, which require about 3.5% enrichment. You can make a lot of that by mixing that weapons uranium with natural uranium, and that’s what we’ve been doing. The United States had an agreement to buy Russia’s blended-down weapons uranium for ten years, and 10% of US electricity was coming from former Russian nuclear weapons for that time. There’s probably some of it in reactors still. The agreement ran out a few years back.
Why was Russia screwing around with North American uranium companies? They have historically been poor in uranium. I think they’ve made some discoveries in the last decade. They have a much stronger commitment to using nuclear power than the US does, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Mr. Putin wanted a hedge in case he wanted to make more weapons.
BUT WE HAVE EXPORT CONTROLS ON URANIUM IN THE SAME WAY WE REQUIRE STATE DEPARTMENT APPROVAL FOR RUSSIA TO BUY INTO AMERICAN URANIUM COMPANIES. So if it were obvious he wanted it for weapons (and it would be), we could just say nuh-uh, no uranium for you.
Sorry for the shouting. I am SO annoyed at all this foolishness.
geg6
@debbie:
The $$ figure I heard on CBS was $56,000. Yes, that is the correct number of zeros.
Elizabelle
@geg6: They’re treating one addict? Or two?
Ruckus
@debbie:
Hoping for the very best for efg. But with what he has going on and having to go back into the hospital, this may take some time.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: The problem is that Obama was paired with a group of awful republicans that lied about him constantly, and whom were given coverage by the media. The media also refused to call out said lies, which leads “reasonable people” to conclude that the truth is somewhere in between. To wit: Obama probably only smoked crack on weekends while in office, but he personally killed babies in Planned Parenthood and raised everyone taxes to pay for Obamaphones for black people. Also, Obamacare must have been an unbridled disaster.
People who don’t pay attention in our current environment will lean republican, because they can’t understand just how bad the republicans are and how little credibility they should have.
debbie
@geg6:
That’s an insult. It’ll only cover a couple of private flights for whoever they’re putting in charge of the program.
Shana
@HeleninEire: I’ve been wondering about you and your family. Thank you so much for the update. It sounds like things are being dealt with and Mary has advocates back here who will stand for her. It must be a relief. Be well.
Mike in NC
@debbie: Thank you.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: Right. I understand the causes. My question is about solutions, since the GOP and the media aren’t going away or reforming themselves any time soon.
And I know there are no easy or obvious solutions, but we need to figure something out, no?
Ruckus
@debbie:
They weren’t thinking of helping addicts. Only themselves.
Baud
You all will enjoy this Reddit post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/78xkze/looks_like_donald_trump_wrote_to_new_york/
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks Cheryl. I forwarded much of the same debunking to my RWNJ dad (who sounds a lot like Goku’s, frankly) and he’s giving me BS like “I’m appalled at all of our leaders” in response.
They just cannot wake up and smell the treason. Oh well. I think Bobby Three Sticks may have some surprises in store for them.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: Very true. And I don’t know what the solution is: I’m getting to the point where I try to educate people to show them exactly how awful the republicans are with demonstrable facts… and if that doesn’t work I ignore them. It’s counterproductive overall, but I literally can’t deal with the constant frustration of trying to teach someone that insists on obvious, disprovable nonsense… and then calls ME biased.
It’s infuriating. And all it does it make them smug that they’ve maintained their careful objectivity. So I just don’t do it.
sharl
@Elizabelle: I would have liked to have seen the people minding GHWB – Babs and whatever staff hover around them – keep the young women out of arm’s reach during those photo ops, but whatever.
At least some people coming to the old lech’s defense are getting deservedly dragged:
There’s never a bad time to dunk on J-Pod.
HeleninEire
@WaterGirl: LOL Come visit. I like your style!!!!!!!!! But you know, Baud is mine, right?
Jeffro
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: See #124 above…you and me both!
Cheryl Rofer
Oh, and this is an excellent (AND CLEAR) article on the Steele dossier nonsense.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: You are correct.
MisterForkbeard
@sharl: Nah, remember: If you’re a white republican and you apologize even superficially for something, no one in polite company is ever allowed to bring it up ever again. Especially if you were ever in the military.
Does not apply to Democrats, or ex-Republicans. Or NeverTrumpers.
ChristianPinko
I can handle things! I’m smart! Not like everybody says… like dumb… I’m smart and I want respect!
Elizabelle
Ad by Dem Ralph Northam: announcer over stills of photos:
I think that one is effective.
danielx
Well, yes. Manipulating a toddler does not post much of a challenge.
Ruckus
@Baud:
Well, while this current maladministration may not have been the known/desired outcome 70 yrs ago, this has been the direction conservatives have been heading all along. Get into power any way possible and crush any resistance/ betterment of the people since WWII. The rich and powerful then just have more money today but are otherwise the same in every way but name and face. How to get it all, how to keep it all, whatever it takes is the goal. They’ve had some setbacks and have had to resort to working with enemies to get it done but here we are. We haven’t lost yet, and they hired some real idiots so they may not be successful after all, but taking over and pillaging the land is the goal. We just have to be stronger than the money they’ve ripped off of all of us.
Elizabelle
Ad by Gillespie: concerned young white mother: She cannot vote for Ralph Northam.
He restores voting rights to convicted sex offenders. They could buy guns.
Picture of the sex offender. Refreshingly, he’s white, middle aged and blondish.
He tried to buy a gun, after he was arrested.
(note the language: arrested. Not convicted.)
HeleninEire
@Shana: Thank you. I will check in and post when I can. Lovely to have friends, even virtual friends, who care.
Major Major Major Major
@danielx:
Spoken like somebody who’s never tried to get a toddler to do something they didn’t want to.
Cheryl Rofer
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m not mad most of the time. I just across that way here because our current political climate makes me that way.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: gotcha, that’s good then ?
NeenerNeener
@Elizabelle: According to a nun my sister knows, JF lived in McLean, Va, on the same street as a convent. The nun said they often observed official limousines and Secret Service parked around that house.
Shana
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: First, every campaign does opposition research. It’s just a fact of campaigning. Period. The Steele dossier started as something funded by one of Trump’s Republican opponents. When that person (and we don’t know who that was yet) dropped out of the race, the Fusion GPS (?) and DNC and Clinton-allied folks took over paying for the work to continue. They would have been derelict to have not done opposition research on Trump and since the work was already underway, why not just continue on the path of what had been started?
Does that help?
ETA: Tobi got there before me.
Matt McIrvin
Months ago. I said here that they’d find some way to pin the Russia scandal on Hillary Clinton. People said I was being hysterical.
MisterForkbeard
@Cheryl Rofer: I need to stop reading the comments on there. There’s clear, bullet-pointed rebuttals from several Republicans which are literally wrong on every point – and not even debateably wrong, just flat-out proven bullshit.
I fear for the general state of our country. People who actually believe this proves anything about Russian interference at all are fucking morons.
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin: it’s still wrong unless by “pin on” you mean “say things to the effect of that have no actual consequences”.
WaterGirl
@HeleninEire: I love how we act as though baud gets no say in the matter!
oops, intended for helen.
Elizabelle
@NeenerNeener: No doubt.
I appreciate the discretion.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
John Barron in drag.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Are the Republicans really going to get away with this? I am so depressed to hear this.
SatanicPanic
@Jeffro: “I hate all politicians” is looking more and more like “I am an easy target for the oldest scam in the book- politicians who pretend they’re not politicians”
SatanicPanic
@zhena gogolia: They got away with the Clinton emails thing, but there was an election. What are they going to do, not elect her again? I’m not even sure how this works. At the end of it, Trump is going to have to face someone in 2020 (if he’s not thrown out of office first) and it won’t be Hillary. I’d like to think that people aren’t this stupid. And based on the popular vote total in 2016, we’re not. Most of us anyway.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: That was classic.
It’s either Trump dictating “Carolyn’s” letter, or maybe snark by someone familiar with his bragging language. It’s parody quality. From 1992, hmmm?
In 1992, people who knew of Donald Trump knew he was a buffoon. People did not take him seriously. He was media fodder, and a celebrity, not a serious guy.
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: let’s give it a little bit of time before we decide that this even has any traction.
Cheryl Rofer
@zhena gogolia: It’s getting me down too. But the MSM doesn’t seem to have fully picked it up yet.
Another Scott
NPR (from July):
(Emphasis added.)
Trump and his minions didn’t need to be “recruited”. They were more than happy to do Vlad’s bidding. And we’ve all known since at least July 2016.
Here’s hoping that Mueller is able to prove it in court.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
I don’t remember if you were here when AsianGrrrlMN was a regular, but there was one time when someone she had pied called her the c-word in a rage and she couldn’t figure out what was happening as he got banned. ? It was pretty funny.
Jeffro
@SatanicPanic: Yes indeedy. “Vote for me – I’m different, I’ll look out for ya!”
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Sorry, people have been saying this same line for months now.
Nothing happened.
The investigation continues to move at a bed-ridden snail’s pace.
And time is a commodity that the former Republic increasingly can no longer afford.
Its 2006 all over again with the economic indicators and irrational expectations. And this time, we have no grownups in the room.
Elizabelle
@TenguPhule: Please don’t be such a downer.
Why don’t we sit around and guess which of our pets will die next?
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Sorry, but I thought people were going to stop this whole “The indictments are going to come any day now. They’re panicking over at the GOP!” back in September. Irrational exuberance is a bigger buzz kill because every time it doesn’t come true, other people get more jaded and less trusting of that poster’s reliability.
And I don’t like where the economic indicators are pointing. I especially do not like it that we have nobody that can handle a crisis in any of the really important positions when shit gets real.
Elizabelle
@TenguPhule: Back in September. It’s only the end of October. Time passes differently in Trump’s America.
I don’t hear exuberance. I hear a plea for relief. That’s entirely different.
Agree with you about econ indicators. And can’t stand that moron Trump is likely to choose a fellow moron rather than reappoint Janet Yellen. I wake up every day hoping Trump stroked out overnight, although Pence would be his own kind of nightmare.
That’s why so much rides on Mueller. Undercutting the legitimacy of this illegitimate regime. Who wants to see musical chairs when you’re still rewarding the thieves.
Take them out. Take out the GOP leadership. If you can find foreign contributions to campaigns, prosecute that and name the recipients.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
I’ll give you that.
I’d be happily surprised if we get indictments any time soon.
But the damage already done is stomach turning.
wenchacha
@Elizabelle: What I don’t like is that his “handlers” are aware, as is Babs. It isn’t okay to put attractive but unwitting women within groping distance of an elderly man who no longer controls himself. Unless they want him to enjoy the event having his fun, and just don’t give a rat’s ass about who he grabs.
Bill Arnold
@Cheryl Rofer:
[rant mode on]
It’s really really irritating how gullible some (much) of the press has been. Puppets, those ones are.
In the last week, an improbably large collection of admin-and-allies-pushed stories:
(1) Uranium One (BS story, probably, resurrected zombie)
(2) Clinton/DNC payed for months of Steele investigation (previously paid for Jeb Bush, the original stories went) (We knew this in February, though not in detail). This one doesn’t even make sense; what’s Putin’s motivation for helping Clinton, who he was known to hate? Etc etc. I literally cannot assemble a coherent story out of the Republican innuendo line.
(3) The Nunes ramp-up. This is just embarrassing. He has zero shame. (Perhaps it’s Kompromat)
(4) JFK assassination info dump (redacted, a lot, surprise, suckers!!!), with Trump even making a transparently manipulative comment about how interesting it would be.
(5) Opioid national emergency. (No funding, natch)
(6+) Certainly forgot a few.
And much (not all for sure) of the press (CNN particularly guilty) has been chasing all the shiny chaff thrown at them, because eyeballs and stenography.
Meanwhile we have a festering story (don’t know how significant) about military involvement in Niger, Cambridge Analytica (big factor in Trump’s win IMO) was reportedly in contact with Wikileaks (who might have been sitting on stuff we haven’t heard about, e.g. voter information. Just speculating… And Assange hated Hillary), and more,
Some in the media are finally catching on to the propaganda tactics (e.g. timed media flooding) being used by the Trump administration. Bannon was better at it so it’s looking pretty transparent now.
This made me smile: New Polls Suggest Trump and the GOP Won’t Get Away With This
Elizabelle
@wenchacha: Yeah. Babs being in know leaps out. Also that it’s been going on for so long that they’ve let their guards down. It’s normal behavior.
They need to work harder on separating women from their wheelchair-bound patriarch.
FWIW, I do not hold GHWB that responsible. He’s 93, in frail health, and does not have a history of this behavior previously. That we know about. Sounds like elderly “losing one’s filter” issues.
Ithink
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Its BS because some masked Republican operatives were the first to fund it; some Clinton campaign operatives picked up said funding efforts after they so obviously lost & apparently, Hillary & the most elite aides were never informed of its whereabouts. Why, I haven’t the foggiest…? But thats the news so far on it!
Regnad Kcin
@waspuppet: “I don’t know, and I don’t know why I don’t know. And you know what? I don’t care.”
World needs it some Sincerity Forever, Now More Than Ever(tm)
J R in WV
@debbie:
Geeze, I’ve pied a ton of people, and occasionally I’ll post a piece about pie in reply to one of their pied posts, but to just …. well, maybe I did tell LanceThruster he was pied. But he’s so so obvious!
Tell you all what. I’m going to remove most people from my pie list. I’m too overboard. Not LanceThruster, tho, that guy is so pied!!!
Jinchi
With Trump, it’s all about ME : money and ego.
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
I have a few pied. Vast majority are trolls. They have nothing to say worth listening to and because I read all the comments in a thread, they waste my time and energy. If anybody is going to waste my time and energy it’s going to be me. I have a regular or two pied as well. They are just not worth the time very often. And if they had something decent to say, somebody will have responded and I can go back and read what they said. Cleek has done the world a massive favor and we get to take advantage of it.