When I drafted my earlier post today I removed a couple of sentences because I thought I was ahead of myself in my assessment. Specifically I deleted that “anyone who has ties to Assange are now facing scrutiny from the Special Prosecutor’s investigation. This includes Congressman Rohrbacher, Nigel Farage, Roger Stone, etc, and those tied to them, such as Steve Bannon, Chuck Johnson, Milo Yiannopoulos, etc.”
The Guardian has now reported that my initial instincts were correct:
Sources with knowledge of the investigation said the former Ukip leader had raised the interest of FBI investigators because of his relationships with individuals connected to both the Trump campaign and Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder whom Farage visited in March.
“One of the things the intelligence investigators have been looking at is points of contact and persons involved,” one source said. “If you triangulate Russia, WikiLeaks, Assange and Trump associates the person who comes up with the most hits is Nigel Farage.
“He’s right in the middle of these relationships. He turns up over and over again. There’s a lot of attention being paid to him.”
The source mentioned Farage’s links with Roger Stone, Trump’s long-time political adviser who has admitted being in contact with Guccifer 2.0, a hacker whom US intelligence agencies believe to be a Kremlin agent.
But Farage’s relationships with people close to the US president began years earlier. Farage first met Steve Bannon, Trump’s strategist and former campaign chief executive, in the summer of 2012, when Bannon, who was interested in rightwing movements in Europe, invited the then Ukip leader to spend a few days in New York and Washington, according to an account in the New Yorker magazine.
There Farage was introduced to, among others, the staff of the then senator Jeff Sessions, who is now the US attorney general. Speaking of his longtime admiration for Bannon, Farage told the New Yorker last year: “I have got a very, very high regard for that man’s brain.”
While these connections in the neo-nationalist and neo-fascist right are not surprising, they are good examples of network based targeting. The same type of social network analyses that were exploited to great effect in warping the US elections in 2016 are now being used to investigate and ultimately to prosecute those who targeted the US and the election. There’s an entire network of alt-righters, neo-NAZIs, white supremacists, neo-nationalists, neo-fascists, etc orbiting around these big names. Each and every one of those folks, from the Rage Furby to the Mandrill Mentality to Halfbaked Alaska to Ensign Urinalysis to the Stupidest Man on the Internet and the Twink for Trump should consider hiring good lawyers. The small fry are going to get quickly cooked in order to get to the big fish.
Baud
Get the Queen on this.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Latifah? Or Aretha?
TenguPhule
Do they still have the death penalty for espionage in GB?
jl
I wonder if the ‘social network analysis’ for this has to be all that sophisticated IIRC, the press staked out some promising watering holes to get pix of Farage rounding his pee posts in the wild, and they paid off. One I remember was a meeting with Assange.
trollhattan
Omnes Omnibus:
Per my spawn it’s now Beyonce or go home.
Kids.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
@trollhattan:
Any of them would whoop some ass.
TenguPhule
Oh for an hour alone with them and a tire iron.
Omnes Omnibus
@trollhattan: What about all three? They would be unstoppable.
Feebog
Ok, I got a couple of your references, but Mandrill Mentality?
(((CassandraLeo)))
I’m not sure if my schaden can get any more thoroughly freuded at this point, but if all these neo-Nazis end up being taken down it’ll happen. The Mercers and Pruitt are still probably my dream scalps beyond the obvious ones though (Trump, Pence, Ryan, McConnell, etc.).
mozzerb
Farage as well? Oh pleasepleaseplease Mr Threesticks …
Adam L Silverman
@Feebog: Does the clue Gorilla Mindset help?
stinger
Whatever the outcome of all this, I remain shocked and horrified that such people, such ideas, have currency and are openly broadcast in MY country in MY lifetime. They should be shunned and ashamed and whatever’s-more-than-marginalized, not pulling the levers of power at the highest levels. How can this be?
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: I’m not sure it does, and I’m not sure I want to Google it. Ensign Urinalysis seems to have gone over my head as well.
lamh36
has the wikileaks diehard or Assange said anything much once the indictments were unsealed?
Lizzy L
I want Roger Stone taken off the board. I’ve despised that man for over 40 years. And I hope Mueller finds a way to get to Gorka and Miller.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: For some reason that one makes me think of Boris Johnson.
Mary G
I haven’t listened to it, but Twitter is saying Nigel Farage went full-on anti-semite today on his radio show. Jewish people very small percentage of Americans, but have a lot of the money and influence, yadda yadda.
Must be nervous, maybe?
ETA: Apparently this was in discussion with a listener call-in right after he finished with his guest Seb Gorka.
raven
@stinger: Don’t kid yourself, they’ve always been here.
TenguPhule
@Omnes Omnibus: I believe that was elephants.
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): @Omnes Omnibus: Cernovich and Posobiec respectively. The former wrote a book entitled the Gorilla Mindset. The latter, it turns out, was in charge of the piss tests when he was in the Navy.
moops
I don’t buy the FBI tracking alt-right/white supremacist social networks. Those guys are mostly sympathetic to MRA and “white heritage” fellow travelers. The NY office perhaps more than the average, but the whole agency is pretty much OK with this crowd. Like the Air Force is full of Christian Fundamentalists. You don’t move up in the agency if you take too much interest investigating white supremacists. It’s a career-ender.
The FBI is *very* interested in domestic hacking and hence Julian Assange. The investigation of the domestic hacking will bring you across the same people, and hence the nexus of Nigel Farage.
I would have liked to hear differently, but don’t read in more than is there.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: UKIP in general, and Farage in specific, has long been anti-Semitic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I knew the Posobiec one.
Yarrow
With all these questions about Farage’s ties to Russia, perhaps the Brexit vote should be reevaluated.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@raven: True. They were just afraid to show their true colours in public, one might say. I’d be quite happy to see them slink back into their holes once we get the timeline rebooted from the bad Man in the High Castle fan fiction that somehow managed to overwrite our reality.
@Adam L Silverman: Ah, thanks. I know who the first of those is, but I think I only remember the name of the latter. I don’t remember his (?) claim to infamy, so to speak.
Adam L Silverman
@moops: I’m not talking about the movements in general, but very specific elites and notables within them that clearly hitched themselves to bigger fish. And were very, very public about it.
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): Claimed he was working for Flynn on special projects for the campaign. Also a Slavic nationalist.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: That discussion has begun in Britain, though it doesn’t seem to be very far along despite some great reporting by the British press.
TenguPhule
Is our Press finally learning?
Still not up to the L word yet. But baby steps.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: Rings something of a bell. There are so many utter scumbags connected to this White House that it’s hard to keep track of ’em all.
debbie
@Baud:
So would the actual Queen, with her purse.
Baud
@debbie: She’d sick her corgis on him.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: She could sic the corgis on ’em.
ETA: Bad Baud.
debbie
No wonder Susan Rice wanted to see names. All these intertwined connections are practically incestuous.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: C’mon, man.
trollhattan
@Baud: @Omnes Omnibus:
Best argument yet for switching to a monarchy.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: It has. Public opinion seems to be a bit resigned or “let’s get on with it” for Brexit. I would guess that Farage’s ties to Russia being much more publicly known might change that opinion. Mueller’s investigation making the Russian influence in our election much more clearly understood will probably influence the UK’s views of their Brexit vote.
They’re totally sucking at Brexiting anyway, so if it becomes understood that Russia influenced that vote then they might all be glad of a do-over.
Major Major Major Major
Haven’t heard from Snowden lately.
debbie
@debbie:
I’ll try again.
No wonder Susan Rice wanted to see names. All these intertwined connections are practically ince$tuous.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: Several months ago, the Grauniad published a great long-form piece about Cambridge Analytica and its involvement in both the Brexit vote and last year’s presidential election. I should probably actually finish reading it one of these days but it’s a monumentally depressing read. I’ve wondered whether either vote total was somehow fucked with ever since both results came out. I’m also still slightly suspicious of this year’s hung parliament, which seems to be the perfect recipe for maximum possible chaos. I hate being this paranoid, but reality keeps proving my paranoia justified, and really, just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not actually out to get, in this case, Western democracy.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Would not surprise me to find him in a morgue now. Time to clean up loose ends.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: His work is done.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: looks like he hasn’t tweeted since…
…Friday.
ETA I am wrong, Twitter is simply displaying his timeline in a seemingly random order. How helpful.
Adam L Silverman
I’m sure they were in a Rose Law Firm folder:
Mary G
Looks like John Kelly’s going to be on Laura Ingraham’s new Fox show tonight and says that he won’t apologise for lying about Representative Wilson. Wow. Way to destroy your reputation, dude.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Yep.
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): Read the whole ongoing series. It’s excellent.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, it’s a series now? Shit, I’ve got a lot to catch up on, then.
lamh36
I was wondering who Chump co would start a fight with to “distract” from the indictment news today…
well I guess they’ll just go back to the well they’ve been using all this time…they trotted out John Kelly with this mess
I wonder if this was a LIVE interview?
ETA: Oh and when asked if he was gonna apologize to Rep Wilson:
Timurid
In other news, Trump leaves for Asia in four days. That is going to be an epic shitshow,,,
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Lindsey dreams of future history books that contain sentences like, “It was the advent of Secretary of State Lindsey Graham that rescued the trump presidency, shattered the power of the Iranian Mullahs and retroactively made the Iraq War an historic military triumph. ”
oy gevalt, tweety on Maddow
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Mary G: Looks like he’s going to lie about the three thugs that were indicted today as well.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And I clicked the TV off.
Major Major Major Major
@Timurid: he really shouldn’t be allowed to leave the country.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: oy gevalt on stilts: tonight of all nights they let him go on other shows to promote his latest senior thesis on the Kennedys
(((CassandraLeo)))
@(((CassandraLeo))): BTW, this is the first article in the series. I’ll have to look for the others.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, Lindsay Graham is hoping that the emails that he’s admitted were hacked from him and his campaign don’t contain anything that might confirm the long whispered rumors about him and cost him his seat in the Senate.
TS
The media – Rachel is interviewing Chris Matthews – now that is sad.
Edit – as others said above – click
lamh36
Omnes Omnibus
@TS: Hey, the good Chris Matthews showed up.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: He really shouldn’t be allowed to leave the “home”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: we could both be right
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I have always seen this as a “both/and” blog. Like, inclusive, you know? Right?
schrodingers_cat
@Mary G: It won’t surprise me if he enters politics, runs for office.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@lamh36: They’re about two days away from “Manafort? Never heard of ‘im” territory. Some surrogates on CNN already seemed to be doing that dance when I glanced at it a few hours ago (I think it was Erin Burnett’s show; not sure).
p.a.
Wonder if tRump appears tomorrow looking like the guy Seinfeld closed the trunk lid on.
lamh36
Def OT…but I had to share cause of the name:
Meet Captain Adam…
awww…
@nifeoluyemi
Follow Follow @nifeoluyemi
More
Remember that little kid that knew alot about airplanes…
Best video i’ve seen today.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I think we don’t hear about Snowden as much because his shilling for Russia has become much more blatant. His former supporters are embarrassed to admit that’s what he was all along.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@lamh36:
Why would he? The people he disrespected and insulted are uppity female darkies. They both challenged his authority and General Kelly couldn’t have that. Fucker.
I take back what I said about him having the potential to be politician. He’s a fucking idiot and this will destroy him. That is if he doesn’t get caught up Mueller’s probe.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
Someone is getting high on his own supply again.
jl
@(((CassandraLeo))): Sort of like, ‘dude, this guy showed up on my front porch and said he’d knock the dent out my fender of the car he saw in my driveway for free, I didn’t smell too much booze on his breath, so what could I know about him?’
But bringing on Manfort was a big deal. He was the very important establishment inside politics fixer man for getting the delegates in line at the convention, and taming the disarray in the Trump campaign (he first of many), and he stayed for almost six months, I think.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@lamh36: Holy shit.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: He’s going to make Mike Pence resign. Blame him for everything.//
Sanjeevs
@(((CassandraLeo))): i find Corbyn very suspicious. Unexpectedly came to power with backing of Momentum who somehow built a superb social media engine. Then Corbyn faces annihilation in the election and somehow turns it around, again via a brilliant social media campaign (where did that come from)?
Corbyn’s right hand man , Seamus Milne is a long time apologist for Putin. Defended him in the Guardian over MH17 , Crimea, sports doping etc.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mnemosyne: I’m still not ruling out the fact that he was turned after his exile to Russia. He struck me as more politically naïve prior to his exile. I’m also not entirely convinced that he has any sort of control over what he puts out on Twitter or elsewhere now. A sort of “we can put polonium in your breakfast and you’ll never know” type of control.
Which isn’t to say he didn’t have his issues even before. But I just can’t bring myself to assume malice when I remember where he is. Given Putin’s prolific history as a serial murderer of journalists, blackmail seems pretty damn plausible.
Adam L Silverman
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Take Dworkin’s stuff with a grain of salt.
jl
@lamh36: If the Trump 2020 rallies pick up and fundraising is good, Trump might figure he’s got as much as he can out of the gig and call it quits. Running his own loon show in internal exile might be lucrative enough for future cash flow and he could be the big star in his new reality show.
Would put GOPers in a delicious fix for 2018, and 2020, which would be nice.
OTOH, will Trump’s lawyers explain he can’t buy time if he’s out of office, and if Mueller’s investigation reaches him personally?
Peale
I would like to think that the right will finally be undone by their own Clinton derangement syndrome. It’s where the looniness actually started. Frustrated by the way the Clintons “always lie and get away with it”, they simply forgot the art of getting away with things. It’s not so much that they felt empowered and so immune to the law that even Louis XVI would think it a bit much. Nope. They just became dumb and wealthy.
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): He was turned long before his arrival in Russia.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Sanjeevs: it’s certainly curious how many figures connected to these insurgent campaigns also have ties to Putin. (See also Devine, Tad.)
Almost like it's not a coincidence.lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve always contended that Trump NEVER really wanted the job. He just wanted to win. Bu I don’t necessarily buy that he will resign…Trump is too prideful to quit and admit defeat.
But if/when more stuff comes out and if the are closer to affecting the kids or kid adjacent in laws…I can certainly see him looking for a way out.
In other words…if it gets close to his fav Ivana…he’s out.
Sanjeevs
The Republican media spent the last week trying to discredit the dossier.
Then Mueller drops his first bombshells and they have nothing to do with the dossier. Two of the three indicted aren’t even mentioned.
Big swing and miss from Murdoch.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: I suppose that’s possible too. In any case I certainly don’t think it’s plausible that he has control over his message now.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: As long as he thinks he can skate, everyone else, including Ivanka, is expendable.
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): I’m not telling you something I’m speculating about.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Well, we know he’s going to blame everyone else for everything.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: I kind of figured you might have inside info here.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman:
I see that sentence and I first think “What do you have against Ronald Dworkin,” and then go to “Yeah, I am rather iffy about Andrea.” It is Scott we are talking about, right?
lamh36
I think our absentee blog leader may be right here:
jl
@Peale: Seems like some of them drank their own kool aide on how evil and devious HRC was. The idea that all those emails really were about getting pantsuits cleaned, wedding and b-day party registries and complaints about banquet food and travel schedules, and were all actually erased, never occurred to them.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep. Some of the stuff he’s pulled together looks good, hangs together, is well sourced. Some isn’t. Like everyone else he’s right sometimes and wrong sometimes. Would it surprise me that someone told him this and that someone is connected to the RNC or other GOP officials? No. Is it accurate? I have no way of knowing. And neither does anyone else.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@lamh36: I’m almost certain that this is exactly what’s happening.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: I think he’s for sure let ’em all burn upto Kushner & the sons, but Ivana is the love of his life…ewww…even if she is his daugher…eww…
I think he’s not let those coarse orange jumpsuits touch Ivana’s creamy skin…
but never underestimate how selfish a stupid fool can be!
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Yep, without a doubt.
Sanjeevs
@(((CassandraLeo))): Seems to be long time Putin strategy to divide the opposition. They certainly tried it in the US with support for Sanders and Stein.
Seems to have succeeded better in the U.K. Corbyn’s positions on Brexit and disarmament will please Putin.
The Democrats have decades of experience of people trying to divide their coalition and proved more resilient, so far.
lamh36
(((CassandraLeo)))
@lamh36: Pedant’s note: his daughter is Ivanka; Ivana is her mother.
@Sanjeevs: it’s kind of bizarre to think that the Democrats are more resilient to being divided (“I am not a member of any organised political party; I am a Democrat.” -Will Rogers). And yet you very well may be correct.
Mnemosyne
@(((CassandraLeo))):
Adam is confirming something I have long suspected, but I also partly agree with you that turncoats generally discover that their “new” country doesn’t exactly trust them, either. Kim Philby did not enjoy his life in the Soviet Union.
dmsilev
@lamh36: I can’t see him resigning, no matter what. He’d be viewed as a failure, a quitter, and a loser, and no amount of bluster would change that. Even a fig leaf excuse like failing health would be a hard sell (remember, according to his doctor, Trump is the Healthiest President Ever). The only way he’s leaving before the end of his term is either a genuine severe health crisis that can’t be covered up or getting dragged out either by impeachment or immediate prospects of same.
Adam L Silverman
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: I thought people have been saying that those under indictment tend to know in advance.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mnemosyne: Well, if they were turned once…
trnc
I do love a good fish fry.
Mnemosyne
I’m waiting for my coworker who went to the Women’s Conference to give me all of the scoop. She is not a Sanders dead-ender and seemed a little irritated by the whole keynote controversy, so I’ll be interested in what she has to say.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Ben Arnold wasn’t a popular guy in England.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Check with Omnes or one of the other legal fleegles, but my understanding is sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Not if it is sealed.
Mnemosyne
@(((CassandraLeo))):
G has been following the new JFK stuff as an escape from the daily news dump, and he was saying that the Soviets were glad to be rid of Oswald because they figured out he was a loon, but shocked that the US actually took him back.
Villago Delenda Est
@TenguPhule: Don’t think there are capital crimes at all in the UK anymore. The US is barbarian compared to Europe.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It works, you see, for those in power. For those in authoriteh!
trnc
@Adam L Silverman: It’s difficult to imagine a scenario where Ivanka becomes a target and daddykins doesn’t, but I guess it’s entirely possible he doesn’t know that.
Mike in NC
Bannon’s very good brain is almost as pickled as his liver.
NotMax
@trnc
Fish ‘n’ drips.
Ken
@Major Major Major Major:
Especially those who’ve been told “Wear this wire for the next three months, and we’ll see about a plea bargain.” I hope someone’s pointed out to Trump that anyone in the White House might be wired.
randy khan
@jl:
I posted this on the earlier thread, but there really seems to be a belief among the crazies that Mueller is tied up with the Clintons because reasons. Also, he’s getting revenge for his buddy Comey. Also, remember that Obama kept him on for a couple of years, so he’s really Obama’s guy.
jl
@(((CassandraLeo))):
” it’s kind of bizarre to think that the Democrats are more resilient to being divided (“I am not a member of any organised political party; I am a Democrat.” -Will Rogers). And yet you very well may be correct. ”
If we can scrape through this mess, and some good policy becomes possible for US federal government, will be due to Democrats openness to real debate. Debate on incremental improvements to Obamacare versus some form of single payer will survive, as will debate on best way to deal with immigration reform and reducing high cost of post HS education will survive, even if Russia was aiding BS.
The GOP is a shell corporation funded by US oligarchs, and Trumpsters a con backed by Russia. Their real policy positions will not survive any public scrutiny.
Edit: OTOH, our side has to avoid drinking its own kool aide too. If people start to think that any debate on any form of single payer has to be Russian psy-ops, then we need to remember what happened to the GOP and the Trumpsters.
Adam L Silverman
Well this was fun!
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
It’s hard to say with a toxic narcissist. Their #1 priority is self-protection, so he would stubbornly resist resigning until he decided it was in his own self-interest to resign. If he does, he will take zero responsibility for it and blame it all on the media, the Democrats.
Also, he will suddenly flip on a dime and it will all happen in a matter of a couple of days. Once he decides it’s in his best interest to go, he’s going to flip the game board and walk away, leaving everyone else around him to clean up the mess he made.
JR
@Peale: Louis XVI was actually reasonably lawful. A complete incompetent, sure. But nowhere near half the asshole his brother was. If we’re talking executed monarchs, Charles I is a better analogy.
Mike in NC
@Omnes Omnibus: “Turn: Washington’s Spies” was very enjoyable and featured Arnold in several episodes. Series ended but is streaming on Netflix.
NotMax
@randy khan
Mueller – 7 letters.
Clinton – 7 letters.
Q.E.D.
/FOX
Adam L Silverman
As I was saying:
Click through to see the rest.
Adam L Silverman
This is interesting:
Mnemosyne
@randy khan:
They have to believe this is all tit-for-tat and just as ginned up as the fake news about Hillary was. Otherwise, they have to admit that they were cheering on treason.
They thought this Russia stuff was all just part of the show, and it’s slowly dawning on a few of the brighter ones that it’s real, and it was real all along.
Omnes Omnibus
@JR:
???
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: my god, you’re right!
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you, that made me laugh!
Barbara
@Adam L Silverman: Could you give the Cliff Notes version for those of us who still have nightmares from listening to Trump supporters?
lollipopguild
@randy khan: Everybody who is not worshiping God/Emperor Trump is a bad person, or evil or something something. Off with their heads! Harumf! Harumpf! Harumpf!
Omnes Omnibus
@Lyrebird: I wasn’t kidding. That is how my academic training molded me.
jl
@randy khan: (Edit: I always type too damn much. Bottom line is that trying to tie Mueller to uranium sale non-story is consciously dishonest BS to obstruct justice, IMHO. Nothing behind it at all.)
The GOP is trying to tie Mueller into BS about the Uranium One (I hope that is the right name). deal. that is almost a total non-story, and I doubt anyone involved in developing that talking point in the GOP really believes it. IIRC, there is no evidence HRC played any real role in the approval of the deal, the critical approval came from interagency national security review, not State Dept.
Some of it is bald faced lying. No uranium can leave the country because of the deal. Other bells and whistles are pure nonsense.
Only thing I can think of that is that maybe Clinton Foundation shouldn’t have taken contributions and Bill Cllnton shouldn’t have taken some speaking fees from anything that sounded Russian while the review was underway. But no evidence that had any influence at all. Not a speck. Even it someone can make it look bad, if it wasn’t bad, I wouldn’t even concede anything to a that angle of attack.
I can imagine Putin trying to spread trouble in every conceivable political corner though. Why not send some money the Clinton way if even a remote possibility it could be useful later?. Doesn’t mean it was very successful with the Dems. That is another way that the Dems are stronger, always fighting with each other and being splintered in a healthy way makes a coordinated foreign buyout harder.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
It’s not that any debate about single-payer is a form of psy-ops. It’s that the people who are currently making it a hill to die on are being fed Russian propaganda and don’t realize it. Did you see Nina Turner’s meltdown over the Clinton uranium story? She believes everything the Russian propagandists are telling her and refuses to believe that they have an ulterior motive.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: Charles X, I’d guess
sukabi
@lamh36: well if the tries to take his tiny balls and go home, I hope the feds and states attny generals where he does “business” continue to press on.
manyakitty
@Major Major Major Major: Someone posted a recent youtube video, but I couldn’t be bothered to watch.
Omnes Omnibus
@Barbara: This the body of an email I sent out earlier this evening: Carter Page is as crazy as a shit house rat. He has no lawyer. He is filing a pro se law suit against the government. He was babbling about a “fake FISA warrant” based on a “dodgy dossier.”
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: I’m not in any trouble. I always tell the truth. I have some informal advisors. Look over there! Squirrel! Want to ride bikes?
lamh36
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought he was a nephew. My bad.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman:
Hahaha. So he’s asking for a friend!
manyakitty
@Adam L Silverman: He can’t do a worse job of coming out than Kevin Spacey…or CAN he???
stinger
@raven: I know that, but they shouldn’t be running things. That’s what I don’t get. Why aren’t there more people–we should be the vast majority–why aren’t we shouting them down, shaming them into silence, denying them microphones and platforms? Why aren’t there a kazillion more of US, being decent human beings and outvoting them 50-to-1? I don’t believe neo-Nazis are the majority in this country, even under Trump. Where is everybody?
NotMax
Small point, but kind of wondering what the landscapers were doing in Southampton in December – the month of one of the payments.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sukabi: IANAL, but if I were, say the kind of lawyer who is Attorney General of the state of New York, I’d be thinking of what I might do to build a larger reputation. Unless Schneiderman is that rare politician who doesn’t dream of higher office
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Oak trees need to be trimmed when temps are below freezing. My parents’ arborist has to come twice a year because of the oaks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
welp, that’s some context for… everything.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Somebody slept through the Gettysburg Staff Ride during his year at the war college!
jl
@Mnemosyne: Well, let her make a fool of herself then.
A lot of the Russian interference efforts are perfectly legal and they are not going to stop. Russia Today is an open state Russian media operation. They will still be allowed to broadcast slanted news..Like I have noted several times, they proudly broadcast interviews and panel discuussion with their proudly self-proclaimed boss, Vlad himself. And people who have an incentive to do so, will lap it up and spout it for domestic political purposes.
We are going to have to learn to counteract different kinds of Russian interference efforts in different ways.
Manfort is a different kettle of fish than Turner, I think, and the remedies are different.
ThresherK
@Adam L Silverman: Let’s Make a Deal…
We’re missing the late Monty Hall, aren’t we? He’d be the perfect game show host for what’s coming down the pike.
lamh36
@lamh36:
Omnes Omnibus
@stinger: Trying to live their lives. Taking the kids to soccer. Taking the kids to theater rehearsal. Picking them up from the same. Working. Fixing the bathtub. At least, that is my brother’s life. He and his wife vote D and hate Trump. His relaxation time is taking the dog for a walk and watching Packer games. There is no way he can keep up.
Timurid
@lamh36:
John Kelly is Nazi filth. Full stop.
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus: I didn’t think you were kidding. And my academic training was apparently not as strong… just shared some topics in common.
Thank you for sparing me the trouble of Googling to remember Andrea D’s first name.
lamh36
John Kelly is a Condedracy apologist…now tell me again that his condescension to Rep Wilson & The widow Johnson or the Khans are not just a little bit tinged with racial animus?
Sounds to me that John kelly is more of a White Nationalist than any of his defenders, who know him so well, will admit
ThresherK
@Mnemosyne: Who is Nina Turner? I am ill + I want the short form from someone I trust instead of wading thru search results.
stinger
@lamh36: But if Trump resigned, that wouldn’t stop the investigations. It wouldn’t “save” Ivanka or anyone else — would it?
sukabi
@Barbara: cliff notes version. Page admits to being on the email chains with Papadopoulos other campaign members talking about getting Clinton emails from Russians.
zhena gogolia
@Barbara:
This guy’s actually fun to watch because he’s so clueless.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Look, the guy enthusiastically signed off on the anti-immigrant shit while he was at DHS. That says a lot.
dmsilev
@lamh36: So, does Kelly think that members of the Wehrmacht were also honorable men? Given his boss’s statements, it seems a fair question to ask.
Omnes Omnibus
@Lyrebird: I really was influenced by Ron.
Jay S
@Mnemosyne: I think Trump may be subconsciously laying the ground work for a Palin like resignation with his “done more in 9 months than any other president” claim. I could see him saying his work is done here and believing it. Not the most likely outcome, but a real possibility.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ThresherK: Former Ohio state senator and Clinton ally who went Berner in the summer of ’16 and became more bernista than bernie, to the extent that’s possible. Now wants to burn down the Democratic party in order to bernify it. Is driven to spittle-flecked incoherent rage by the sight of donuts.
dmsilev
@ThresherK: Short short version, a Bernie bitter-ender. Emphasis on bitter.
Brendancalling
@TenguPhule: Milo won’t do well in jail.
jl
@ThresherK: I am not really up on on all the details of the who’s-who, but Nina Turner is a lefty fire eater who BS put in charge of one of his independent political operations. I’ve seen her spout Trumpster and Russia Today BS myself in clips.
I think with Manafort, fine to present evidence he is a knowing willing crooked foreign agent and dismiss everything he says as worthless bilge on that basis alone.
Unless we learn something similar about Turner, I think aggressive debunking with facts is a better approach that calling her a Roosky agent.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If Schneiderman manages to collect the president*’s scalp, I suspect he’ll be an early frontrunner for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.
@dmsilev: Brutus and his co-conspirators were also honourable men.
NotMax
Adam, did you happen to see this from last week? (emphasis added)
MoxieM
@NotMax: Plowing snow; Christmas decorations; laundering money–like you do.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
So you really have met Baud.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: it certainly does, and yet you still have folks who clinging to the “John Kelly I know…” that this current version of is OBVIOUSLY not the same man, or he never was as honorable as they thought he was…just nice to them but full of underlying bigotry/racism
Adam L Silverman
@ThresherK: Former state legislator in Ohio. Was supported by the Clinton’s when she ran for Ohio secretary of state. Initially backed Clinton for president, but quickly jumped ship to Bernie when Clinton didn’t give her a position with the level of seniority that she believed she deserved. Has basically turned herself into the arbiter of purity for what is and is not acceptable to liberalism and the Democratic Party and is now running Sanders’ outside organization Our Revolution.
zhena gogolia
Kelly is stomach-turning.
Adam L Silverman
@stinger: No it would not.
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
@dmsilev:
+jl also
Thanx. I’m starting to remember her.
Mike J
@stinger:
And a pardon would mean they couldn’t take the 5th.
lgerard
@Adam L Silverman:
Mike Pence lied to himself, he has to resign
clay
@lamh36: “My conscience says that I should be allowed to own human beings.”
“My conscience says that’s monstrous and evil.”
John Kelly: “Gee, both sides make vald points. Welp, no judgement here!”
Omnes Omnibus
@(((CassandraLeo))):
So they were. Arguments easily can be made that Caesar was an incipient tyrant, and Brutus and his fellows were trying to preserve the Republic such as it was. Look what what Octavian became.
ETA: Shakespeare was also a propagandist. Look at his histories.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Yes I did.
Back when I was doing some work for the Army’s Office of the Provost Marshal General and Correction Command I had a discussion about this problem with my point of contact. Had the sequester not mucked it up, I was in the chute to transition to them as the director of criminological research/criminology advisor in Fall 2014. And this was one of the things on my agenda to look into and get ahead of for the Army. So it doesn’t surprise me at all.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
I find it ironic that this seems more and more like an international cabal, working beyond and in place of national governmental authority–exactly what the right has been accusing the left of doing with the UN for many years. I would even enjoy the revelation were it not for the fact that the Cheesy Poof in Chief still has his pathetically small digits near the nuclear button.
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus: I did Google him after your comment, partly bc I couldn’t remember Andrea Dworkin’s (bereaved) husband’s name, either (it isn’t Dworkin).
Glad to have learned more about Ronald.
Adam L Silverman
@lgerard: Mother demands it!
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Omnes Omnibus: I was mostly just quoting Shakespeare as an opportunity to snark on Kelly, but yeah, there are a lot of arguments that can be made either way in terms of actual Roman history. I haven’t studied the period in depth, but my vague impression is that Caesar was sort of a Chávez or Huey Long-type figure – i.e., he had some sympathies for the underdog but he also had some obvious autocratic tendencies. This could be entirely off-base, though.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne:
THIS! He will gladly give up every and any and each person who’s served under him, save Ivanka, if it means keeping his fortune from being RICO’d and if he thinks he has a prayer of martyring himself to his base.
jl
@(((CassandraLeo))): I don’t think anyone knows. IIRC, before he was assassinated, Caesar was obsessed with a huge infrastructure project for Rome, and pulling an ancient version of Sherman’s March to the Sea, except through the Scythians.
If he hadn’t been assassinated, maybe the he would have marched into oblivion someplace east of the Black Sea. I think it is a real unknown what kind of government Ceasar had in mind for Rome.
Omnes Omnibus
@(((CassandraLeo))):
He was as aristo as Brutus, et al., but he did have the common touch. Proper classicists and/or classical historians, please correct me if I am wrong. And anyway, my real issue with Shakespeare’s histories is his portrayal of Richard III.
stinger
@Omnes Omnibus: I guess I know that. It’s just that, for the past year, my life has been lived atop a substratum of Munch’s The Scream. Sometimes the anguish just breaks out into the open.
Timurid
@jl:
Crassus wasn’t around to warn him about the inadvisability of getting into a gunfight with a Central Asian cavalry army…
Adam L Silverman
Lookie here!
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Omnes Omnibus: I hear you on the Richard III part. That’s one of the ones I still haven’t read, but I did get the impression that historians had a low opinion of its historical accuracy.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
Who called her a Roosky agent? She’s the left equivalent of someone who watches Fox News 24/7 and repeats back everything they say.
We can’t do anything about RT’s lying and propaganda for the same reason we can’t do anything about Fox News’s lying and propaganda.
jl
@Timurid: IIRC, Caesar had two very close calls with Scythain troops, and thought he had learned the trick of beating them at their own game. But, maybe Newt can write an alternative history on that, if his current band wagon loses its wheels and totally breaks down.
dmsilev
@Jeffro: While Trump is not exactly a deep strategic thinker, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where he’s better protected from legal trouble as a disgraced ex-President rather than a current, if embattled, one. Sure, there’s the ‘I’ll go willingly and then you can pardon me for everything’ scenario, but if you were Trump, would you trust Pence to hold up that deal?
jl
@Mnemosyne: ” Who called her a Roosky agent? ”
Nobody called her that. That was my attempt at a humorous way to warn about avoiding that approach in every debate with people who resort to BS stories from Trumpster and RT camp when it suits their purposes.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: There is also an argument that Caesar had epilepsy or something else that caused seizures and was degenerative. And that what is recorded as an assassination was actually a mercy killing by friends and colleagues before his condition became so noticeable that he was publicly humiliated and forced from office and/or so debilitated that he could no longer lead.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: ‘Useful idiot’ is probably the relevant term here.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: That would be a good alternative history too.
Sad fact is that so much written history of ancient world has was burned or otherwise lost, we can only guess about what really happened at many junctures. That goes for all the obvious lessons of some ancient financial crisis or attempted market manipulation that gold bugs like the Paul pair like to spout.
jl
@dmsilev: If some of the Bernie bitter dead-enders keep it up. I can go with that one.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: They actually worked that into the Rome series on HBO. I don’t know how plausible it is considered by historians of Rome and Caesar, but I always found it an interesting theory.
Omnes Omnibus
@stinger: OTOH, this last weekend, my nephew’s high school soccer team (he is a sophomore and has started every game except the first of the season where he got put in after five minutes) went to their sectional finals and thus came closer to going to the state tournament than the high school soccer team has ever gone. This morning the air smelled like autumn. This is a wonderful song. I hope I made my point.
lamh36
Amaranthine RBG
@Adam L Silverman:
We may be getting ahead of the facts here. Here is the section that seems pertinent:
It is possible that the first answer was true: That they had a system in place to dump emails after 30 days. Hence they did not have any “communications” beyond the 30 day period.
The story says only that “records” were found in Manafort’s house, not necessarily “communications.”
A fine, nigging point? Yes. The sort of thing that can skirt around perjury” Yes, also. We don’t have all of the language of the Govt. request. It MAY have been directed towards “communications” and not merely “document.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: Are you fighting over records vs communications? Are guns that important to you?
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: @Amaranthine RBG: What is the last thing in any discovery request? “Any other documents that may be relevant to the case.” You give them and fight about them later.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: guns with clips or magazines?
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Basically. NRA troll is pretending to be a D.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: have him pied on most devices. Must have forgotten this one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I don’t pie. At times I regret it. But principle and shit.
manyakitty
@Adam L Silverman: That’s a potentially chilling parallel.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Shakespeare lived in the age of the Tudors. He knew what was politically correct at the time.
AxelFoley
@TenguPhule:
Can I join in?
Sanjeevs
@Adam L Silverman: check out Carol Cadwalladr’s twitter today. Some of the earliest followers of Papadopoulos on twitter are a British Defence minister and the political editor of the Times (Murdoch)
Amir Khalid
@(((CassandraLeo))):
Ivanka is a diminutive of her actual first name, which is Ivana.
bjacques
@AxelFoley: I’ll bring the Chair Leg Of Truth
Booger
Don’t you see it, folks? It all centers on Carter Page. It’s right there in the open. What do ‘Carter’and ‘Page’ have in common? “Jimmy!”
And what do Jimmy Carter and Jimmy Page have in common? They both reached the pinnacle of their respective carears in the late 70s.
What else happened in the 70s? Nixon’s resignation and the Cold war! Gas lines! Whip Inflation Now!
IT’S ALL THERE SHEEPLE! WAKE UP!
Uncle Cosmo
@Amir Khalid: IOW, “Little Ivana” – to distinguish her from her momma, TrumpWife 1.0, whose given name is also Ivana (feminized “Ivan,” i.e., equivalent of “Joan”). /tmi
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ha ha ha. You funny.
TenguPhule
@Sanjeevs:
Actually the Tories are just that fucking terrible.
And don’t forget who was just tied to Putin’s US operation.
It sure as hell wasn’t Labour.