Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

In my day, never was longer.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

People are weird.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Because of wow. / Trump polling thoughts

Trump polling thoughts

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I’m not a pollster. But I am a political junkie who thinks that there is useful information in polling.

NBC released their standard issues and approval poll over the weekend.

Thirty eight percent of Americans say they approve of Trump’s job performance — down five points since September — while 58 percent disapprove.

The issues polling looks like this:

One of the things that stuck out to as I was debating whether or not I wanted to begin the process of becoming hung-over the day after the election was the following:

Only 38 percent said Trump is qualified to serve as president, while 52 percent said Clinton is qualified. And yet Trump won. Americans elected a candidate they don’t believe is qualified!

These are different polls and different methods but they point in the same direction. The people who think that Trump was qualified to be President last November are all that he has left. The people who thought he was not qualified to be President and still voted for him are special snowflakes whose fee-fees are enabling a rolling constitutional crisis in the quest for upper-income tax cuts that won’t actually trickle down to them have dropped their support. It was weak and fracturable support.

The base remnant are the people that think Trump is a plausible President and just what we need.

However, even that support can be fractured.  A little less than three-quarters of his general approval people think he is doing a good job for Puerto Rico.  These are the ultras, the hardest of hardcore who are wrapped in a bubble so tight that they may need to call Green Balloons and get out of their wetsuit.  The people who think he is doing a good job in Puerto Rico belong in the Crazification Factor.  

Tyrone: 27%.

John: … you said that immmediately, and with some authority.

Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.

John: Objectively crazy or crazy vis-a-vis my own inertial reference frame for rational behaviour? I mean, are you creating the Theory of Special Crazification or General Crazification?

Tyrone: Hadn’t thought about it. Let’s split the difference. Half just have worldviews which lead them to disagree with what you consider rationality even though they arrive at their positions through rational means, and the other half are the core of the Crazification — either genuinely crazy; or so woefully misinformed about how the world works, the bases for their decision making is so flawed they may as well be crazy.

John: You realize this leads to there being over 30 million crazy people in the US?

Tyrone: Does that seem wrong?

John: … a bit low, actually.

So one more year until we can get some meaningful checks and balances in to contain and segregate the alternate reality that dominates our current reality.

Reader Interactions

179Comments

  1. 1.

    Jeffro

    I don’t think we’re going to need a year here…

    …but good analysis and best to be prepared anyway.

  2. 2.

    tones

    The same 27% it ALWAYS is…
    Bush best pres ever – 27%
    Trump – 27%
    want a theocracy – 27%
    Authoritarians – 27%
    Think they are the majority – 27%

    etc.,.

  4. 4.

    MisterForkbeard

    Also worth noting: Gallup has Trump even lower, at 33/62 approval/disapproval. And that’s the rolling average that hasn’t gotten today’s news in yet.

    We’ll see now whether or not Trump can land in the 20s.

  5. 5.

    kindness

    It’s all become so tribal. Funny I had mocked the right for it’s cloistered tribal nature before but I didn’t see driving the right to exist is such a fashion helped reinforce & perpetuate dogma (and untrue versions of facts, science, recent history). That’s not to say that liberals caused the epistemic closure on the right to all outside influences, but it seems we did might have tweeked their butts some.

    Polling….there aren’t enough millionaires to register 38%. What has he done besides piss off liberals? Is that really all it takes?

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    WATCH: Chuck Grassley scrambles through American flags to evade reporters asking about Mueller probe
    Elizabeth Preza
    30 Oct 2017 at 19:15 ET

    Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA), who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee currently investigating Russian influence during the 2016 presidential election, abruptly fled a press conference after questions turned to Monday’s indictments of two former Donald Trump campaign associates—and knocked into multiple American flags in the process.

    Republican senators held a press conference to address Trump’s judiciary nominees. As reporters began questioning the senators on special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-TX) repeatedly refused to answer questions.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/watch-chuck-grassley-scrambles-through-american-flags-to-evade-reporters-asking-about-mueller-probe/

  12. 12.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    These are the ultras, the hardest of hardcore who are wrapped in a bubble so tight that they may need to call Green Balloons and get out of their wetsuit.

    I see that you are familiar with Balloon Juice traditions.

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    THAT’S THE REASON WHY THERE WAS A NO KNOCK WARRANT

    Michael Isikoff‏Verified account @Isikoff

    When FBI agents picked lock on Manafort’s house, they found Ukrainian lobbying records he had told DOJ didn’t exist

  14. 14.

    Yarrow

    @rikyrah: They’re all going down. Trump, Pence, Trump’s three eldest kids, top GOP leadership, campaign and administration officials. They’re all traitors.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    Caroline O.‏ @RVAwonk

    Per @DavidCornDC, Papadopoulos has been looking for a speaker’s bureau & a publisher—”as if he has a story to tell.”

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    Trump polling is low. Congress polling is also low. Confidence in the political system polls low.

    Dissatisfaction with Trump does not yet translate into success for anyone else or for the Democrats in general.

    Any polls of Trump’s agenda, as fractured as it is. The results might be surprising.

    Hell, poll Bernie Sanders. He might do well. I would still never vote for him unless he was the last resort.

  19. 19.

    Cckids

    @<a href="#comment-6611749Major Major Major Major:

    @Jeffro: the line of succession is republicans all the way down. We need at least one house of Congress.

    YES. Because even if DT gets the boot, if we end up with Pence or, FSM forbid, Ryan – the press will tongue bathe him till he’s guaranteed to get elected. Based on precisely no history of competence, but he’s a darling blue-eyed boy. Fuuuuuuck

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer: and again if the presidency is won by Americans acting in concert with a hostile foreign power in that election is clearly illegitimate. 65M American voters would have standing to bring a case directly to the Supreme Court, and they could award the presidency to Hillary or call for a new election.

  27. 27.

    Yarrow

    @rikyrah:

    Then I read the Geroge Papadopoulos plea agreement and confession and I realize that Mueller already has Trump!

    Yes, he does. Along with a whole lot of other people.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    65M American voters would have standing to bring a case directly to the Supreme Court, and they could award the presidency to Hillary or call for a new election.

    Unfortunately for that little fantasy, we have 4 traitors and one wild card serving on the SC currently.

  32. 32.

    guachi

    Trump slumped to a record low in the Gallup 3-day rolling average. Worst previous performance as -27 (three times) at 34-61. He hit -29 at 33-62 in the Friday-Sunday three days. The longer term averages, two-week and four-week are trending sharply higher and could hit record highs in the next week.

    His previous highs at the end of Augusts started trending sharply downward when the hurricanes hit but started back up in mid-October.

  33. 33.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    let’s see what they say when confronted with this kind of history making conundrum … Country or party first ?

    Bush vs Gore, 2000.

  35. 35.

    Yarrow

    @TenguPhule: Newest Supreme appointed by traitor president installed by enemy via fraudulent election. I think there could be an argument to remove him depending on how the analysis of the election goes.

    This is only the first day. Mueller has so much more.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    ReBecca Theodore‏Verified account @FilmFatale_NYC

    Just your daily friendly reminder that 94% of Black women voters voted against Trump.

  37. 37.

    TenguPhule

    @guachi: The mere fact that Trump is polling above the margin of error shows a lot of people in this country shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

  38. 38.

    jl

    @Brachiator:I can only find favorability polls for a range of politicians at Hufpo pollster, and nothing past end of May. Obama and Sanders polling around 58 percent favorable. Maybe because they are more symbolic of what people yearn for. Both figure more as symbols now than anything else. I don’t think BS is held responsible for anything he’s been doing as Senator, more for his political vision pitches.

    Edit: from Gallup end of June, Dub at 59 percent, Obama at 63 percent favorability. I guess pretty much anyone who can do anything at all looks good compared to Trump.

  40. 40.

    bluehill

    @rikyrah: Boy the U.S. going to look pretty stupid a 100 years from now when history students discuss how a website dedicated to cataloging people’s mundane lives and pet photos contributed to the dissolution of the world’s only superpower.

  42. 42.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Trump’s Gallup Approval Rating Just Hit Lowest of His Presidency

    Approve……………33%
    Disapprove……….62%

    This is only 9 months into office, with the unemployment rate at 4.2%. Yet these shocking approval numbers are those of double digit unemployment or 6 years of administration fatigue.

  43. 43.

    Baud

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I hope that some day, we can all look back and say, remember Mueller Monday?

    I’ve already made plans to attend the 2032 opening of the National Museum of American History’s exhibit on The Decline and Fall of the Traitor President.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    I’ve already made plans to attend the opening of the National Museum of American History’s exhibit on The Decline and Fall of the Traitor President in 2032.

    I’ve been accused of pessimism before, but even I don’t think Trump is going to remain in control till 2032.

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    @Peale: Pence is connected to Manafort & Flynn. He’s up to his neck in treason.

    ETA: I see we all had the same thought at the same time.

  52. 52.

    rikyrah

    Sen. Maria Cantwell‏Verified account @SenatorCantwell

    Whitefish Energy was charging US taxpayer as much as 30% – 40% over what would be normal rates for repairs in this kind of disaster recovery
    1:53 PM – 30 Oct 2017

  54. 54.

    debbie

    I’ve become less interested in impeachment. I want the midterms to devastate the GOP. I don’t think there is any other way to get them to stop what they’ve been doing the past 30+ years.

  55. 55.

    Yarrow

    @Peale: Democrats will not pretend. Mueller also won’t let people pretend Pence is not a traitor. Not going to happen.

  56. 56.

    jl

    @guachi: Warsh now looks unlikely for Fed Chair. Powell, Yellen, Taylor have better odds in betting markets and rumor mill.
    Warsh would be a disaster. Taylor is total unknown, famous smart guy who has gotten very political in his analysis and apparently convinced that his own Taylor Rule should be last word forever on monetary policy. Taylor would be very unpredictable. Powell knows what he is doing. Yellen still best for economy, and probably also best for Trump, if he doesn’t want a self inflicted wound on economic stall while all his flunkies and bagpeople get dragged off to court.

  60. 60.

    TenguPhule

    @debbie:

    I don’t think there is any other way to get them to stop what they’ve been doing the past 30+ years.

    Cough, 2008, cough.

    Merely kicking them out of office won’t stop their shit.

    Actual convictions for fraud, corruption and treason and some sentences with actual teeth will.

    Otherwise we’re going to find ourselves right back here, or worse.

  62. 62.

    Mike in NC

    I wonder if all the Halloween costume stores sold out of rubber Trump masks, handcuffs, and orange coveralls today.

  64. 64.

    jl

    @Major Major Major Major: Anyone well known, knows enough not to act like spoiled toddler in public every hour of the day, and not responsible for making hard decisions right now, would get a good approval/favorability rating compared to Trump.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    @jl:

    Yellen still best for economy, and probably also best for Trump, if he doesn’t want a self inflicted wound on economic stall while all his flunkies and bagpeople get dragged off to court.

    So this naturally means Trump is going to fire Yellen and replace her with an idiot.

  68. 68.

    mike in dc

    The next wave of indictments–or a reckless attempt to fire Mueller–will drop him below 30. The political focus for the next month, paradoxically, should be on winning the offyear elections and stopping the tax bill. There are at least 3 Republican Senators who (allegedly) have zero fucks left to give. If they could be persuaded that blocking the tax bill was the surest way to end Trump quickly, maybe they’d pull the trigger and stop the bill from passing. Once tax reform is dead, the overt rationale for putting up with Trump goes away. Base opinion is likely a lagging indicator–if enough Republicans speak out and stand up, R voter support will erode enough to drop below the “Courage threshold”(below about 60% support), and then the rest of the congress critters will push him out. In theory.

  69. 69.

    Major Major Major Major

    @jl:

    Anyone well known, knows enough not to act like spoiled toddler in public every hour of the day, and not responsible for making hard decisions right now, would get a good approval/favorability rating compared to Trump.

    And yet Pelosi is at 28%.

  70. 70.

    lamh36

    @Omnes Omnibus: There is a reason why someone like Carter Page would go on Chris Hayes show for an interview, and it’s NOT because Hayes is some razor sharp interviewer…smh.

    Hayes skills as a hard nose interviewer is not very good. Ya certainly don’t see Page on Rachel, Joy or even Lawrence show and def NOT Tweety

  71. 71.

    TenguPhule

    @debbie: And those baggers aren’t just going to go away. They’re easily startled but they’ll be back and in greater numbers.

  74. 74.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I haven’t had enough time to digest enough of this to make a real post, but the sheer level of DUMB in all this is impressive.

    Papadopoulos and Page are exactly the kind of people the Russians would target – they feel that their wonderfulness is unappreciated and want to make a difference in the world.

    Sam Clovis recommended these two nobodies – we don’t know much about him, but I would not be surprised if he were in the same category as P & P.

    Whoever said, yeah, it’s kind of cool that all these folks love us so much that they’ll work for nothing.

    And all those, including Donny Jr. and Jared, who said YEAH, bring on the oppo, we don’t care who you are.

    It may even be worse than that, but the sheer stupid is amazing, unless it turns out they all have secret FSB badges.

  76. 76.

    TenguPhule

    @mike in dc:

    The next wave of indictments–or a reckless attempt to fire Mueller–will drop him below 30.

    Not a chance. The crazies and the true believers are pretty much set in stone now.

    They’re gonna just ignore everything, just like they’ve been doing so far.

  81. 81.

    rikyrah

    wesomely Luvvie‏Verified account @Luvvie

    WHOSE PRAYING BLACK GRANDMA HAS BEEN FASTING STEADFASTLY FOR EVERYTHING HAPPENING TODAY??? We thank you. #IndictmentMonday
    12:48 PM – 30 Oct 2017

  82. 82.

    lamh36

    @MattMurph24
    Following Following @MattMurph24
    More
    What’s the point of interviewing a liar like Carter Page?

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    Awesomely Luvvie‏Verified account @Luvvie

    Big Mama been calling Black Jesus EVERY NIGHT with her anointing oil. #Blessed #HighlyFavored #GotJesusontheMainline

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    @lamh36: Chris Hayes is built to be a moderator. Someone who sets up a viewpoint or question and then points around a table.

  89. 89.

    mike in dc

    @TenguPhule:
    He just dropped to 33 in Gallup with news of the first indictment. A second indictment will knock a few more points off. Failure of tax reform + insurance premium increases might knock off a couple more points.
    I think his absolute floor with registered Republicans is around 45%, with indies around 15%(one third are basically R-leaners), and with Ds around 0. That averages to 20%. That’s basically the “Hey, Trump just shot a guy on 5th Avenue” level. He will never drop below 20%, but he will be in deep political trouble long before then. He’s already probably doomed to be a one termer. Nobody hitting that low in Gallup in their first term has ever won re-election.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    @jl: A current NYT story says that Powell will get the nod for the Fed. Has Krugman weighed in on this? I recall he was really down on one potential pick.

  91. 91.

    jl

    @Major Major Major Major: Pelosi and Schumer are Democratic Congressional leadership, they are in the news and involved in the dirty work of actually having to make real world decisions. And Pelosi has long standing GOP smear campaign against her, which is sadly echoed by many of my lefty Dem compatriots.

    So, low rating not surprising for Pelosi.

  92. 92.

    lamh36

    @Omnes Omnibus: smh…I can barely stand to watch Chris Hayes on a good day, so Lord knows I’m not even trying to watch him interview Page…smh

    I’m just waiting for Rachel at this point

  94. 94.

    Mike in NC

    @rikyrah: Except for weddings and funerals, I haven’t set foot in a church in over 30 years. But that could change with enough indictments…

  95. 95.

    randy khan

    @rikyrah:

    Just your daily friendly reminder that 94% of Black women voters voted against Trump.

    I’m sorry the rest of the country didn’t think as clearly about this as they did.

  96. 96.

    jl

    @Brachiator: Warsh is consensus worst. He’s one of the wrong about everything ever since he opened his mouth people. Taylor very unpredictable. Krugman has said Powell is competent, but you’ll have to go search his twitter or column.

    Yellen would be best of those still in the running by far, though. I think that is consensus among competent lefty to conservative economists (yes,, there still are a few of those).

  97. 97.

    rikyrah

    Greg Sargent‏Verified account @ThePlumLineGS

    Here @DavidMDrucker talks to Republicans who worry that the indictments are big trouble for them:

  100. 100.

    moops

    Manafort bringing in Pence is a big nothing. So what? There is nothing illegal or conspiratorial in that fact alone. Either add something to this fact, or drop it. Manafort did lots o crap in the campaign. His very existence and influence while being a compromised foreign agent is the crime. Pence didn’t bring in Manafort, it was the other way around. I seriously *hope* something comes out about Pence given his prominent role but “Manafort brought him in” is not treason.

    So, who brought in Manafort? Sessions? Flynn ?

    and where is Flynn in today’s indictments? He, of all the actors, is clearly a guilty foreign operative and guilty of the same rap sheet as Manafort has been indicted for. He has been absent for quite a while now…just like PD was.

  101. 101.

    TenguPhule

    @mike in dc: I think you’re too optimistic.

    I agree with the crazification factor theory. His base is 27% + margin of error 3-4%. He’s never gonna drop below that because we just have that many stupid spiteful people in this country.

  103. 103.

    TenguPhule

    @moops:

    Manafort bringing in Pence is a big nothing. So what? There is nothing illegal or conspiratorial in that fact alone.

    Except if Manafort thought Pence was the best choice it means Putin thought he was the best choice.

    Now why would he think that? Hmmmm.

  105. 105.

    jl

    @Cheryl Rofer: We know now that Manafort was not working for Trump for nothing, he was working to get out hock to Russian and Russian aligned Ukrainian oligarchs.

  107. 107.

    clay

    Every time Carter Page goes on TV, I wonder what on earth he’s thinking. He always makes himself look both guilty and stupid.

    Tonight’s Chris Hayes show is no exception. Hayes literally told him, ‘I hope you’re innocent because this looks really bad for you.’

  114. 114.

    jl

    @mike in dc: Josh Marshall’s twitter says that Mueller may have 4 more indictments/pleas on the docket.

    Pairing an indictment with announcement of plea deal is a nice tactic, and I hope we see more of that.

  117. 117.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro: The first act of treason was the hardest, I imagine. Its certainly gotten easier for them since Citizens United.

  118. 118.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: He tried to keep the format of the old show, trying to pack four guests into five minute segments, really didn’t work on a show geared at daily news. I find eh quality of his show often depends on the quality of the guests. And his Gorka impersonation is really good.

  119. 119.

    jl

    @Jeffro: Even with Gorsuch, the reactionary nutcase payoff is not quite what they thought it would be. I read an article that said Gorsuch is such a nutcase that he is fracturing the reactionary majority on the court.

  120. 120.

    lamh36

    Alright Maddow this is the first time in a long time that I’ve watched the show. Make it worth my while!

  124. 124.

    mai naem mobile

    I am waiting for Colbert,Kimmel and Meyers tonight . Especially Colbert.
    Also too, I saw a truck with an Impeach Trump bumpersticker and it was an older white guy driving the truck. Nice way to top off Mueller day.

  126. 126.

    Jeffro

    Btw go KC!

    Sorry Broncos – I love your town but we gotta get this Super Bowl run back on track here! ?

  134. 134.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @jl: I read an article that said Gorsuch is such a nutcase that he is fracturing the reactionary majority on the court.

    I just hope he’s pissing Kennedy off enough to cling to his seat till February of of 2021. Or at least January ’19 (fingers crossed for a run of the table next November)

  137. 137.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: Lol!!! Can’t stop laughing. They’re going to break bones and damage themselves trying to protect a man who has zero loyalty to them.

  138. 138.

    mike in dc

    @TenguPhule:
    Consider this. Unemployment is 4.2%, GDP growth has been 3% the past 2 quarters, and the stock market is doing fairly well…and Trump is still at 33% in Gallup. If he’s this unpopular doing a fairly good economy, what happens if it takes a dip? Bush dropped to 25% near the end of his term. Nixon hit 24% just before he resigned. GHWB, 28%. It is possible to drop below 27%, because it’s happened before. Maybe he never hits 20–that’s just my hypothetical floor–the people who won’t abandon him no matter what. I think with regard to the indictments, his floor is probably around 29%. If you throw in failure to implement his agenda, he could go a little lower. If/when a recession hits, he could go a lot lower.

  140. 140.

    mai naem mobile

    @moops: I thought Stone brought in Manafort. BTW, if Page ends up in prison I hope they make him do an Elliot Spitzer styLe perp walk just so that Spitzer can laugh at his ass.

  142. 142.

    Peale

    @jl: yep. I’m fairly certain that poisoning would be the way Alito and Kagan decide to remove the cancer. I can’t imagine them using blunt objects.

  147. 147.

    lamh36

    @kylegriffin1 33s34 seconds ago
    More
    The same day as George Papadopoulos’s first FBI interview (Jan. 27), Trump called Comey to the W.H., told him he expected loyalty from him.

  149. 149.

    mainmata

    @rikyrah: That assumes Trump doesn’t fire him (directly or indirectly) or that Congress doesn’t protect Mueller, which they can, of course by simply creating a Congressional investigation with the same people. The investigation could all go sideways with no recourse.

  151. 151.

    moops

    Unlike PD, Flynn was an outed and flawed instrument too early in the investigation for the investigators to bother wiring him. You would be a total idiot to talk in his presence once his dirt hit the media and his invitations to testify….and as I say this, I realize that there are actual idiots in the White House….

    I wonder if Drumpf’s staff had to literally tell him that Flynn might be wearing a wire and to not talk to him? It would explain the Man-baby’s sudden interest in threatening people with recordings (Comey) or his obsession with Trump Tower being tapped.

    We haven’t even seen the first indictment from any of the FISA warrants on the Russian mob contacts in Trump Tower. There are people yet to appear in this drama that have not even been mentioned in the media yet.

  153. 153.

    TenguPhule

    @mike in dc:

    If he’s this unpopular doing a fairly good economy, what happens if it takes a dip?

    They blame someone else. Remember, at this point the Trump faithful are literally ignoring any news they disagree with. They’ve gone Davidson cult on us.

  154. 154.

    Yarrow

    @moops: Manafort worked for Putin. He pushed for Trump to pick Pence, even having Trump’s plane delayed with fake mechanical problems so Trump had to spend another night in Indiana and get to know Pence better. He’d only be pushing Pence that hard if that’s what Putin wanted. So why did Putin want Pence?

    So, who brought in Manafort? Sessions? Flynn ?

    I think it was Sessions. Can’t remember for sure right now.

  157. 157.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    This is true. Watching him “go after” Carter Page was like watching your 14-year-old Jack Russell terrier with no teeth go after the kindly mailman.

  158. 158.

    TenguPhule

    @moops:

    You would be a total idiot to talk in his presence once his dirt hit the media and his invitations to testify….and as I say this, I realize that there are actual idiots in the White House….

    Uh, Trump was still talking and messaging Flynn for almost a month after the news first hit and he was fired.

    Just saying.

  159. 159.

    moops

    I think Stone is one of our impending indictments. He *was* the guy that brought Manafort into the Trump campaign and his recent Twitter hate-rant at CNN that got him banned would roughly correlate with when he would have been informed that he was being indicted and told he was banned from foreign travel and what day he would be expected to turn himself into authorities. As Christie said, Monday’s indicted would have known at least as early as Thursday.

  160. 160.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro:

    I can see a 6-3 decision to declare the results void.

    I can, too.

    If I close my eyes.
    After slamming my head into brick wall, repeatedly, first.

    Because no matter how much Gorsuch purportedly “fractures” the RWNJ majority, only Kennedy might vote that way. Roberts — whom I’m guessing is your sixth vote — won’t. For all the talk of his “legacy,” it’s not clear that he would in any risky manner. And voting to overturn would be just a little more risky than Sandra Day “But I didn’t want to have Nino mad at me” O’Connor voting to appoint Bush.

  161. 161.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    apolitical general nobly sacrificing his reputation to save nation from trump is once again reluctantly drawn into politics, in the most classy and thoughtful forum imaginable

    Fox News‏Verified account
    TONIGHT: WH Chief of Staff John Kelly speaks exclusively on the premiere of “The @IngrahamAngle.” Tune in at 10p ET

    Daniel Dale‏Verified account @ ddale8 33m33 minutes ago
    Asked about Manafort, Gates and Papadopoulos, Kelly falsely says “all” of the activities happened “long before they ever met Donald Trump.”

  168. 168.

    Matt McIrvin

    I don’t believe that even a liberal-dominated SCOTUS would rule that they have the ability to award the Presidency to somebody else or call a new election. The Constitutional mechanism simply doesn’t exist. (Note, even Bush v. Gore had the direct result of stopping a recount–it wasn’t a do-over.)

  172. 172.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule:

    Cough, 2008, cough.

    This is look at the California GOP, they utterly out of office in the state and their reaction is to double down. The Republicans are about fund raising and nothing else.

  176. 176.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro: No offense meant.

    But he’s been party to too many horrible decisions on partisan grounds to be relied on at all.

  179. 179.

    Gelfling 545

    @Cckids: Ryan can gove a fair impersonation of a human being and could possibly be elected. Pence, on the other hand, is obviously reptilian and just looking at him makes one feel that his basement should be inspected for human remains. No way he’d get his own term. He’s only in his current pisition because he had no political future, having made both Democrats and Republicans detest him in Indiana.

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