CNN a short while ago:
(CNN)Jared Kushner has turned over documents in recent weeks to special counsel Robert Mueller as investigators have begun asking in witness interviews about Kushner’s role in the firing of FBI Director James Comey, CNN has learned.
Mueller’s investigators have expressed interest in Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and a White House senior adviser, as part of its probe into Russian meddling, including potential obstruction of justice in Comey’s firing, sources familiar with the matter said.
Their questions about Kushner signal that Mueller’s investigators are reaching the President’s inner circle and have extended beyond the 2016 campaign to actions taken at the White House by high-level officials. It is not clear how Kushner’s advice to the President might relate to the overall Russia investigation or potential obstruction of justice.
Could investigators be spelunking for anything other than obstruction of justice if they’re looking into the circumstances of Comey’s firing? Of course, Trump’s conveniently on video blurting out a confession to Lester Holt. Maybe they’ll nail Jared for obstruction too?
From Vanity Fair yesterday:
“Here’s what Manafort’s indictment tells me: Mueller is going to go over every financial dealing of Jared Kushner and the Trump Organization,” said former Trump campaign aide Sam Nunberg. “Trump is at 33 percent in Gallup. You can’t go any lower. He’s fucked.”
[snip]According to two sources, Trump has complained to advisers about his legal team for letting the Mueller probe progress this far. Speaking to Steve Bannon on Tuesday, Trump blamed Jared Kushner for his role in decisions, specifically the firings of Mike Flynn and James Comey, that led to Mueller’s appointment, according to a source briefed on the call. When Roger Stone recently told Trump that Kushner was giving him bad political advice, Trump agreed, according to someone familiar with the conversation. “Jared is the worst political adviser in the White House in modern history,” Nunberg said. “I’m only saying publicly what everyone says behind the scenes at Fox News, in conservative media, and the Senate and Congress.”
Trump could try to slide several pardons under cover of the traditional commutation of sentence for the White House turkeys. Would be pretty weird if Jared ended up in a petting zoo.
dmsilev
Trump: “Challenge accepted”
Also, too, we all know that somehow Trump will manage to fuck up the traditional pardoning of the turkey. The only question is how. Maybe he’ll turn it over to ICE or something.
Cheryl Rofer
Carter Page has been testifying to the Senate Intel Committee for something like six hours now. Without a lawyer.
Hunter Gathers
He’ll skull fuck the turkey on national TV. And the NYT will gush about how unconventional he is.
jl
And Sessions is a liar who committed perjury, looks like several times. We kind of knew that already. But having the slam-dunk evidence is always nice.
Now we need to get a better understanding of the motive. Which might be difficult, since so many of the Trumpster seem to be mentally impaired.
The ‘Trump’s Razor’ principle will get some more tests.
Hunter Gathers
@Cheryl Rofer: He at least could have gotten an expert in Bird Law.
Betty Cracker
@Cheryl Rofer: Whoa! Wonder if he’ll go on Chris Hayes’ show and spill all the beans this evening?
@jl: Did you see Al Franken’s letter to Sessions? Burnt!
Roger Moore
Yes, you can. Both Shrub and Nixon got down into the 25% range at the nadirs of their respective popularity, and Truman managed to fall a bit lower than that, though the polling was sparse. It may be harder for Trump to fall that far than it used to be because of extreme partisan polarization, but I have faith he’ll manage it somehow.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: In closed session or is it possible to watch video excerpts or read a transcript later?
charluckles
No lawyer here, but I dont understand how obstruction charges dont drop on some of these actors. Hasn’t Trump all but admitted to obstruction at this point?
NotMax
“Dammit, got gravy all over this subpoena. And this one. And this one.”
clay
@Cheryl Rofer: What’s the over/under on the number of times he inadvertently incriminated himself?
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
He’ll pardon people from Turkey, specifically Erdogan’s guards.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: I think it’s closed session. But one of the participants said Page invoked the fifth amendment with regard to any and all document production. If I see excerpts or transcripts, I’ll post them.
bemused
How could trump’s lawyers have stalled the progress of Mueller’s probe?
germy
@Hunter Gathers: “Today is the day he became president”
Cheryl Rofer
Meanwhile, Joseph Mifsud, the mystery professor, has disappeared. I suspect the next time we see him, it will be in Moscow, possibly under another name. Or maybe his body will mysteriously turn up somewhere.
Waynski
Anyone see this yet?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/358403-photographer-places-robert-mueller-jack-o-lantern-in-front-of
NotMax
@dmsilev
Burning question is whether or not the turkeys will be named Boris and Natasha.
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer:
You know, we might have lost to these idiots, but thank god they’re idiots.
NotMax
@NotMax
Or perhaps Adolf and Eva.
bemused
@Cheryl Rofer:
He’s an idiot. From what I’ve seen of him on Chris Hayes, he just blathers on as if he hadn’t a care in the world. I had to laugh at his latest appearance on Hayes show just watching Chris’ astonished facial expressions.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
That Lester Holt confession was jaw dropping. I suspect Holt was as surprised as the rest of us. Plainly Trump thought he was asserting his own dominance by saying the letter had no effect. It didn’t seem to occur to him that he was confession to obstruction.
Brachiator
Trump’s poll numbers will soon be so low that he would need a limbo stick to dance under them, but the GOP will still be behind him. But I am loving his distress and Mueller’s steady, relentless efforts.
Xecky Gilchrist
We’ll know Trump’s popularity has collapsed when the usual wingnuts start saying that he’s a big government liberal and they’ve been saying so all along.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I imagine Papa Kushner wheezing into a burner phone: “it’s them or us, boy!”
Cheryl Rofer
@bemused: What intrigues me about Carter Page is that he is an idiot. But he went to reputable schools, had a real job, and was hired as a foreign policy advisor to a presidential candidate. You could see the idiocy long before he turned up on television if you read his writings on Russia.
So the question is how an idiot managed to do all those things. A simple answer is that Trump’s campaign staff were idiots, but the respect Russians have shown him, and the number of Russian connections in the Trump campaign suggest otherwise. Page is just the kind of idiot that the Russians would recruit. But, as he continues to blab, what for? Or is he doing a fancy cover and will disappear along with Mifsud?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Xecky Gilchrist: And putting a D after his name in chyrons.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@bemused&;
I had to read that again too.
I think it’s “Trump is complaining his lawyers told him not to fire Mueller because it would make Trump look guilty as sin”
AliceBlue
@Cheryl Rofer:
The professor has disappeared? Who’ll be next–Mary Ann? The Howells? Ginger? Maybe even Gilligan and the skipper!
NotMax
@Enhanced Voting Techniques
Inside the trash masher with no R2 unit available.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: I read it was in the SCIF — so closed session. You cannot partially invoke the 5th — it is binary. If you testify at all, you have waived the protections of the fifth. Also, the fifth does NOT cover document production generally. So, if they subpoena the documents, he must produce them or face contempt charges..
(there is a very narrow document claim regarding the fifth merging with the fourth that may be a separate ground, it is when your production of a particular document “says” something about your control over the document. The classic example is asking a mafia accountant to produce the crooked books. It is a rare exception and I can’t see how it plays here.)
Cheryl Rofer
Ah – It’s the House Intel Committee, not the Senate.
schrodingers_cat
@Xecky Gilchrist: Or when Maggie H of the Vichy Times tells us how he is really a Dem.
Immanentize
@Waynski: That was just mean.
bemused
@Cheryl Rofer:
I dunno but just from seeing him a few times on tv, I thought the guy isn’t rowing with both oars in the water. He seems oblivious to any threat to himself.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There seems to be a lot of problems with pizza chain owners recently.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: It is possible Mueller and others in intelligence are telling the House Committee members to STFU.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Ignorance is bliss.
And he’s got a surfeit of bliss.
Roger Moore
@clay:
Infinity.
Thoughtful David
@Cheryl Rofer:
It’s called white-privilege + male-privilege + wealth-privilege. It’s what Junior Bush had. It’s also what Trump has. You can take a complete idiot and get them to the top of the world.
LurkerNoLonger
@dmsilev:
He’ll eat the turkey and pardon himself.
Roger Moore
@Cheryl Rofer:
The curve for white men is real. Put a white man in a well cut suit, and he’s instantly credible no matter how much of an idiot he is.
Gin & Tonic
I only hope that for Thanksgiving that whole fucking clan carves up and consumes each other.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Immanentize: Yeah, well he’s in there without a lawyer so god knows what legal fantasies he’s making up.
sukabi
@Immanentize: oh contraire, that is awesome! ?
Llelldorin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I suppose it might make sense if by “his legal team” he means “The United States Department of Justice.” He may still somehow think that Jeff Sessions is the equivalent of the lawyers who got him out of trouble in his real estate days.
Immanentize
@sukabi: mean and awesome are not mutually exclusive!
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
Lightning repeatedly strikes U.S. Capitol. Film at 11.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
That’s the bogus part of this admin. None of them know how to find a suit that fits properly or looks presentable. Manafort spent like $1M on men’s attire but he looks like a fucking goon. i wouldn’t sign a linen or garbage contract that guy repped.
JMG
One could start with the earliest childhood memories and give as exhaustive a narrative life story as possible right up to old age and it wouldn’t take six and a half hours. The committee members must’ve been bored witless about three hours in.
Major Major Major Major
@JMG: Even a one-man show is what, like, two hours TOPS?
Evinfuilt
Pretty certain Page was supposed to be in the “Upper Class Twit of the Year” competition, but couldn’t find the stadium to compete.
Trentrunner
OT, a few minutes ago on Jake Tapper on CNN, re the Brazile “bombshell”:
Tapper: Was the 2016 Democratic primary race rigged?
Elizabeth Warren: Yes.
We are so, so fucked.
bemused
Seth Abramson’s tweets make me dizzy. Fascinating but does the guy ever sleep, eat, potty break…
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
The more rope he spools out to hang himself (and others) the better.
Major Major Major Major
@Trentrunner: Great timing, Donna! Real helpful! Couldn’t have waited a week?
@NotMax: I wasn’t complaining.
SiubhanDuinne
Also too, what everyone says out in the open at Balloon Juice. But we smile when we say it.
raven
Fats Domino’s Second Line!
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Manafort laundered $1M through a men’s clothing business.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Drop your drawing tools and rush the crystal ball in for a tune-up if it is predicting next week will be ‘something else’ free. Or the week after that, ad nauseum.
;)
clay
@Llelldorin: “May”? He clearly has no concept that these people don’t work for him personally.
Corner Stone
God dammit. The damage that fucking Russian sponsored stooge Bernie has done to the D Party just continues paying dividends.
The rules HAVE to change that unless you are a registered D, and raise money for D’s, you can’t run as a candidate in the party during the primary.
Mike J
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: What an absurd claim! Who doesn’t spend $650K on landscaping over a couple years?
les
Why would we expect Trump to pardon the turkeys???
feebog
Page’s interview with Chris Hayes earlier this week was amazing. The guy is either a complete and utter moron or he is the smartest operator in recent memory. I think door number one is the correct answer.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: Why would you do something that will inflame intra-party tensions and probably decrease turnout right before an election? Such an own goal.
Corner Stone
Is NoVa a highly susceptible area to the Magical Myth of Berniedom?
Baud
@Trentrunner: She lost my primary vote.
SenyorDave
@les: Why would we expect Trump to pardon the turkeys???
Depends on what color the turkey is. If its a white turkey they’ll get the pardon, but turkeys of color, that’s a different story.
Davebo
@Cheryl Rofer: He’s got nothing to fear now that committing perjury to Congress is no longer against the law.
Keebler Elf took care of that.
Betty Cracker
@Trentrunner: To reiterate what I said in the now deceased MM thread, I’m kinda hoping Sanders does run again in 2020. Let Harris, Gillibrand or whoever thrash the ever-loving shit out of him in the primary, and then maybe we can move the fuck on already. Otherwise, this bleating will continue until the end of fucking time.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
Let’s hope not.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: How did MM die?
NotMax
@Siubhan Duinne
You get what you pay for.
:)
(Incidentally, the same White House document lists Ivanka’s official job title as: FIRST DAUGHTER AND ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT.)
geg6
@Trentrunner:
I will never vote for anyone who says this. Never. She’s dead to me.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker:
I think you might need a white man to do him in to shut them the fuck up.
@Corner Stone: Every vote counts.
clay
@Trentrunner: Warren was on Chuck Todd, who could barely hide his boner over the Brazille story, saying a milder version of the same thing.
One of Todd’s guests did say “Thanks Donna” sarcastically.
Yarrow
Kushner is tied to the Mercers and Cambridge Analytica. It isn’t going to go well for any of them.
Cacti
While Kushner is not a particularly impressive figure in either his business dealings or his short political career…
I figure he’s smart enough to know that other members of the Trump inner circle (including his FIL) would happily sign off on a “Blame the Jew” strategy when the heat got turned up by Mueller.
different-church-lady
DEMOCRATIC PARTY BIASED TOWARDS LONG-TIME DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: FAIR OR UNFAIR? WE EXAMINE!
JPL
@Baud: No kidding.. Bernie was not a democrat, and I believe him to be a grifter. The mistake was made when they allowed him to run in the primary. ugh
Roger Moore
@les:
He needs practice for all the other pardons he’s going to be handing out.
Immanentize
@Mike J: As I mentioned above — there is no fifth amendment protection vis a vis document production (except an incredibly rare narrow one). So his invocation is puro bullshit.
@raven:
Thanks — rough day. I needed that!
Baud
@JPL: I was always skeptical, but it’s ended up much worse than I ever could have imagined.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: With the Professor missing, what about Mary Ann and Ginger*?
(*H/T to Olbermann for that one.)
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Likewise. I figured there couldn’t be much harm, as evidently did the DNC.
Immanentize
@Baud: I still think he was Moscow approved and financed. We know Stein was, why not Comrade Bernster?
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Okay, Chris Murphy then.
msdc
He can go exactly six percent lower.
Immanentize
@Baud: I want to see the tape, first. Did you hear Senator Harris on NPR this morning? They were trying to get her to admit that our freedoms make us vulnerable and she was not buying! Even my 16 year old son said, “She is pretty great, who is she?”
NotMax
@NotMax
From the same document – do they pop Xanax like Sen-Sen?
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: Comrade BS answers Mother Russia’s summons.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I starting to think we’d be better off formally split into two parties.
@Immanentize: It would be great if that’s proven.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
There are people still whining about Vietnam. The Berniebots whining will only cease when they’re all dead.
Baud
@Immanentize: Agreed. Although I took the above comment as a first hand account. Hopefully it’s not as bad. I want to like Warren.
Major Major Major Major
CNN news alert: WARREN SAYS DNC WAS RIGGED
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I can’t even blame CNN this time.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Once an R, always an R. So disappointed in her.
Ridnik Chrome
OT, ICYMI: As of 5 PM, Joe Ricketts shut down DNA Info, Gothamist and all the other -ists because his staff voted to unionize.
ETA: Story here.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Why? To me she always sounds like the hectoring principal one had in middle school. I have never really been a fan.
I like Kamala H.
Trentrunner
@geg6: When I say “we are so fucked,” this is what I mean.
If anyone has an explanation for why Warren would say this, I’d love to hear it.
Because this threatens to deepen the schism that will fuck us in 2018 and 2020.
Not to mention next week in VA…
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Up till now, she had some political sense.
Tazj
I called Warren’s Washington office and complained about what she said. It’s not really about Clinton at this point(although I preferred her to Sanders). The primary was not rigged against him period. You’re making the party look bad and giving Republicans talking points and yes, that is more important than what happened in the 2016 primary.
I was fine with BS after the election talking about healthcare, and taxes and visiting Puerto Rico. However, when you talk about caring more about his voters than Democrats that have been in the party all along and have different views, forget about it.
Cacti
I’ve about had it up to my eyeballs with my vote being denigrated and treated as not counting because it wasn’t for left-wing Jesus of Burlington.
Bernie lost because Democrats didn’t want him.
schrodingers_cat
@Trentrunner: She wants to be anointed as the BS successor.
Baud
Maybe billionaires aren’t so bad.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Hillary killed him, like all the others.
Roger Moore
@Ridnik Chrome:
Billionaire throws tantrum when he can’t get his way. 2017’s version of dog bites man.
Ridnik Chrome
@Baud: Whatever you may think of DNA Info and/or the -ists, nobody should lose their job just because they voted to join a union.
Cacti
@schrodingers_cat:
Despite her status as a left-wing darling, I’ve never been that impressed with the political chops of Elizabeth Warren.
She underperformed Obama in Massachusetts when they were on the same ballot.
zhena gogolia
@geg6:
Yeah, I hope they call me (in CT) asking for a contribution again. I’ll let them have it.
schrodingers_cat
@Cacti: She also does have a similar finger wagging delivery style of the great saint of the Green Mountains
Major Major Major Major
@Ridnik Chrome: weird that he closed them down instead of firing everybody and bringing in scabs. Or maybe that’s the next step.
Elizabelle
Can any front pagers change the title of EF Goldman post? Make it clear in title that he’s recovering, alive.
News of EFG title sounds like brace yourself for bad news. It’s clickbaity. I know that was not Cheryl’s intention.
But it’s unintentionally alarming.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Roger Moore:
Jerome Corsi.
Hugh Hewitt.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
She tanked at the Democratic convention.
SatanicPanic
@Trentrunner: Angling for a cabinet seat in the Bernie admin?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat:
I like it, though I’m partial to my “Sage of Burlington”.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
In 2020, Warren will be 71. IMHO, we need someone younger.
debbie
@Roger Moore:
And then hid the million dollars under the numerous rugs he’s bought.
Miss Bianca
@raven: aww, thanks for that!
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: I saw that bore fest.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: Agreed, “Good News on efg” would be better.
(Especially after MM’s horribly titled post this morning.)
SatanicPanic
Then again maybe it was rigged. But who cares?
schrodingers_cat
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Lotus Lady (Kamala)!
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: Didn’t help that there were all the Bernie cultists yelling WE TRUSTED YOU! at her.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Digital age equivalent of a lockout.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SatanicPanic: It could have been rigged for the Sage of Burlington(open primaries, caucuses).
Jeffro
@Trentrunner: We don’t have to be…let’s just go with a twist on both-sides-erism and say “a pox on both their houses – let’s bring some fresh faces in to the party”
Because I am only going to support fresh faces from this point on. It’s time to hand over the reins, Dem-old-crats! (And I say this as someone who’s getting up there himself ;)
Cacti
@SatanicPanic:
Is it your position that Democratic voters were not able to make an informed choice concerning the candidates?
If so, why? Were we just too dumb?
Chyron HR
I can’t believe that literally the only person we know of who actually DID try to rig the primaries has unleashed this shitstorm on us. Jesus Christ.
Yarrow
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Agree on both counts. Please don’t use titles like that. We’re all on edge enough as it is.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore:
And carpets too, or so I hear…
SatanicPanic
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I never got the appeal of Sanders so maybe I’m the wrong person to ask. Either way party elections are not like government elections.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: Not that I’m aware of.
LurkerNoLonger
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I agree with your HO. No more grandmas and grandpas.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: Wouldn’t that be more like changing all the passwords? I mean, he’s saying he’s shut down the companies.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: Sorry Betty – you said it first and better than I did at #130. Agree completely.
NotMax
@Jeffro
Well, he <did have an awful lot of dirt to sweep under the rug.
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl Rofer:
I will channel rikyrah for a moment: the curve for rich white men is real.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t leave out the “lips pursed”!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: @schrodingers_cat: putting Warren and the act that followed her on after Michelle Obama was just some shitty staging. The biggest misstep of the convention, IMHO. But we didn’t want to be wished into the cornfield. Oh, wait…
Joe Biden was reminding us what he looks like when he’s not playing a supporting role to Obama or Julia Louis-Dreyfus today. Trump voters aren’t bigoted, they’re just realistic!
I’d love to know what they’re actually “realistic” about. Messicans takin’ yer jobs? Moose Lambs comin’ to git ya? coal mines reopening with 1950s mining methods? Obamaphones?
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: Do those usually go together in the same comment though?
Jeffro
@SatanicPanic: Probably angling for VP…yeesh, now there’s an inspiring ticket…
SatanicPanic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “They’re not stupid.”
Oooh, that went off the rails fast
SatanicPanic
@Jeffro: Debates that are nothing but old angry white people. I know I’m inspired!
Cacti
Slightly OT, but something seems to be afoot with alt-right/Nazi sugar daddy billionaire Robert Mercer.
He’s dumping his ownership stake in Breitbart, and resigning as president of his hedge fund.
One of the unsealed indictments, perhaps? (please, please, please)
Roger Moore
@SatanicPanic:
Berniebros. SATSQ.
Yarrow
@Jeffro: @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Speaking of getting young blood into the Democrat party, I’ll repost about this upcoming video series on women candidates.
Edit: You can watch the first two videos here: https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/topic-shes-the-ticket-follows-5-women-running-for-office.html. The first one has interviews with all the candidates. Trigger warning: shows election results. One woman talks about how she threw up when they called it for Trump.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
Doesn’t take much to start ’em up afresh under a new moniker, with different staff.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
They’re the lead-in to an excerpt or a link. Sometimes also “Side eye.” I love it because that’s exactly what I do.
I'll be Frank
@Roger Moore: Our cook at the college frat was doing both the ordering and receiving (a very bad business practice) foodstuffs, so he was buying on credit and returning for cash. The owner of a not very near-by piggly wiggly was collecting a 15% “restocking fee.” I wonder how much Manafort’s vendors were charging him for “restocking.”
Major Major Major Major
@Yarrow:
DemocratIC party, please. “Democrat” is a childish name that Newt Gingrich or somebody made up.
@NotMax: Agree to disagree.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
It also wouldn’t take too much for the old staff to start up under a new name and new management.
I'll be Frank
@Roger Moore: It really helps if he is tall and has executive hair.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Ricketts clan has deep, deep pockets and would tie them up in court for years, I’m afraid.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Dude, read the very next sentence:
He’s saying what I’ve been saying: there is a genuine problem for working-class people, but the solution being sold to white working-class people is the racist solution.
Jay S
I for one, would be happy to see the turkey pardon farce end. Much like the President’s attendance at the correspondent’s dinner Trump could kill something worth killing.
ETA the tradition, not necessarily the turkey.
dogwood
As President Obama campaigned during the 2016 election, the most important message he consistently delivered was- “Democracy is on the ballot.” A political candidate or party that eschews addressing the cyber threat to our elections, voting rights, voter suppression and the rule of law in favor of populist claptrap doesn’t really care about the long-term future of the country. We live in a time when people choose their political heroes because they saw some viral video of them performing at a Senate or House hearing and they’re all in. As a nerdy CSPAN watcher I can attest that Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris are not the only Democrats who ask tough questions in hearings. Warren doesn’t care what happens in Virginia next week, she made news for herself. Bernie’s an old leftist who thinks the Soviet Union was a worker’s paradise. They are both fostering a cult of personality. If Kamala Harris decides to follow their lead, we should become wary.
Barbara
@SatanicPanic: “Rigged,” could mean:
1. That the outcome was “fixed” — that is, no matter how many people voted for one candidate, the other candidate would win. By this standard, not rigged.
2. The rules were evidently and unfairly slanted to help one candidate win. Not rigged — same rules applied that tanked Clinton in 2008. She just learned to play by them better this time around.
3. Party apparatus was evidently rooting for one candidate over the other and made decisions that could be viewed as helping that candidate. Maybe.
All I would say is that the biggest rule of all that in my view should never have been relaxed was to let Sanders run as a Democrat even though not actually a member. Whatever other favoritism was applied, this decision gave him the clear benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to run against Clinton, including the publicity that came with participating in debates. A party that had rigged the outcome would never have allowed that. Everything else is commentary. Elizabeth Warren can bite my ass and I am not responding to any appeals from her for funds on behalf of anyone. What an unfair thing for her to say.
SatanicPanic
@Cacti: I’m just saying I don’t know if there was a thumb on the scale and I’m not sure I care. Probably because I got the outcome I wanted and Bernie isn’t a Democrat.
Jeffro
@Yarrow: Thanks Yarrow! Happy to check this out a.s.a.p. (gotta run to a concert in just a bit)
Emerald
@Trentrunner:
That’s the worst news I’ve heard since the election. That’s all we need: a permanently divided Democratic party.
I’ve maintained that the Dems simply cannot do what the Rs did, and surrender the party to the fringe element. But with that choice, that’s exactly what Sen. Professor Warren is doing.
And to think I admired her.
Sheiß.
Mike J
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
Gone?
Cheryl Rofer
NotMax
@Jay S
Doubt that even anything Dolt 45 might do could surpass the sheer mockworthiness of the Sarah Palin turkey escapade.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: but his intent is clearly to chase, and absolve, those good-hearted WWC voters he grew up with. Again, what issues are they “realistic” about? I understand there’s little to no point in calling these people stupid, but we don’t have to excuse or romanticize them either,
I grew up with the WWC, too, and I can say, they do love them some Biden. But I don’t think he’s agile enough for today’s politics. Hell, he wasn’t agile enough in 1988. And he’s taken some gratuitous shots at Clinton since the election, not necessarily wrong, but she’s retired. He should be, too.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne:
The democrats try to sell solutions too, but these voters prefer the party offering them racism, tire rims, and anthrax.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, Biden has stepped in it before, but this seems more like the Deplorable speech.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
On what grounds? He can’t fire them and then claim they aren’t allowed to work in the same business.
SatanicPanic
@Mike J: “this user does not exist”
IT WAS ALL A BAD DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Corner Stone
@Mike J: I still see all his stupidity there.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
I have hope! The feed opens, but then there’s a message: “This user does not exist.” Hooray!
Major Major Major Major
Trump’s twitter machine is working for me.
In the “it loads” sense, not the “this works for me!” sense.
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
It seems to be back. Most likely a glitch in the matrix.
Gin & Tonic
Elizabeth Warren’s Twitter account is getting a *lot* of pissed-off people.
debbie
Damn. He’s back.
Corner Stone
I, for one, am fucking tired of Joe Biden. He is the one that should shut up and go away.
Baud
@Emerald: Yep, it was already a bad situation, but she just set off a bomb. They should just leave.
Cheryl Rofer
It’s back. ☹☹☹
Cheryl Rofer
debbie
@Baud:
Time for a beer summit.
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: He hasn’t fired them. They’re on “paid administrative leave” until February. So presumably there’s some kind of non-compete in the interim.
The odd thing is those properties had some value. He could have sold them, but he just shut them down and took them off the Web. It’s a temper tantrum, not a business decision.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
We don’t know the terms of their contracts. Misappropriation of proprietary content, non-compete clauses, who knows? Enough possibilities, whether they have legs to stand on or not, to tie things up for years.
Cheryl Rofer
Cheryl Rofer
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic:
Yep, exactly. Wouldn’t be the first time a billionaire businessman has done something like this.
p.a.
@Major Major Major Major: Yes. Sadly, it doesn’t take much of a sell job to get the WWC to target any and all ‘other’.
Major Major Major Major
The usual suspects are ‘splodin my book of faces timeline with this DNC bullshit now
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Glad I don’t use Facebook.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
“Turn it off.”
– Howard Beale
;)
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I dunno, it’s a convenient way to keep track of their thoughts without having to actually talk to them.
ETA plus, I just had the satisfaction of ‘unliking’ Warren’s page.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Your sanity.
Tazj
@Gin & Tonic: Good. What happened to ignoring the question, dismissing it or changing the subject? Republicans have mastered that.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Here is something to take your mind away from BS and Ds
Yo Yo Kejru’s Dharna Dance:
The Delhi Chief Minister, Arvind Kejriwal is BS like figure. He is an ex-civil servant, he promised cheap electricity and free water to get elected. His “revolution” includes sit-ins (dharna) instead of legislating. Its politics as performance art. His party is AAP (Aam Aadmi Party==Common Man Party) and the symbol of the party is a broom.
The Indian Comedy group AIB made two spoofs on him which are laugh out loud funny. Unfortunately they don’t have good translations but here goes. Dharna Dance’ rap portion is mostly in English
Dharna Dance
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: That train has sailed.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: Excellent.
SatanicPanic
@Major Major Major Major: oh god I’ll have to stay off there.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I know what that’s like.
Corner Stone
The DNC was not only broke, it was in deep debt. Whose fucking money do they think they were going to get to control?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: It was an honest mistake. I was going to phrase it “Speaking of getting young blood into the Democrats” but thought it sounded a bit macabre. I was editing my sentence, my browser froze, I got a phone call, and when I got back I missed it. I guess that’s more important than the overall content of my comment, which seems to be good news about a lot of new people, women, running for office as Democrats.
dogwood
@Major Major Major Major:
The Russians are coming…..
Baud
Andrew Cuomo is looking better and better.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: Millions of inspired people, $27 at a time!
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: I’m not a twitter expert but have looked at both her twit feeds and am not finding this?
different-church-lady
@Baud: eemon will be along to scold you shortly.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
MyGOD! It’s worse than we thought.
There’s nobody there who can tell Drumpf that he’s wearing a mismatched suit (navy jacket with black pants) (photo)
They’re to compliant/afraid to tell him something minor, then they’ll never correct him on something major.
Also too:
Baud
@different-church-lady: No worries. I’m into that sort of thing.
Major Major Major Major
@Yarrow:
Yep, because when one person offers a quick edit in case you weren’t aware of the usage, that’s what they’re trying to say ?
@Corner Stone: Did you click “tweets & replies”?
p.a.
Am I to understand that the DNC favored the actual Democrat in the Democratic presidential primaries?
Baud
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It’s not tan so it’s cool.
Cacti
Bottom line:
The Clintons are spent as candidates for national office. Donna Brazile is a political consultant (who’s really shitty at winning, but I digress) who has her future employment prospects to think about.
She’s auditioning for a job with a future Wilmer campaign.
prostratedragon
@Ridnik Chrome: There are those who buy things in order to shut them down, it seems. I suppose the employees have no recourse, or do they?
Baud
@p.a.: No. It didn’t. It should have.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Baud: yup, imagine the hysteria if Barry did this
Betty Cracker
@Emerald: Not at all worried about a Sanders takeover, personally. The coverage of HRC was hideously unfair, IMO, but it was tailor-made for a Sanders foil. That won’t be the case in 2020, when he’ll face younger candidates that the wingnuts and their media enablers haven’t been shitting on for nearly 30 years. And Sanders burned bridges with a lot of Democratic voters in 2016. Me, for one, and I know for a fact I’m not alone.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: That’s some serious kink there, Baud.
Ruviana
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It’d take too long for me to track it down but I remember W doing that as well.
prostratedragon
@Ridnik Chrome: I’ve found DNAinfo for Chicago and Gothamist for NYC useful for following local stories that don’t get much coverage elsewhere.
And I quite agree about the employees and their jobs.
Cacti
Meanwhile, as opposed to punishing our last candidate for the offense of defeating her male primary opponent…
Al Franken is on Tweety, talking about Sessions’ false statements under oath.
Fight the real enemy. We don’t have time for circular firing squads at other Dems.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: OT: BTW, thanks for your comment about my bird pic.
NotMax
@David Merry Christmas Koch
Trigger warning, please. The other guy’s socks induced defensive blindness.
Chyron HR
CNN: Does John Podesta sell children into sex slavery?
Warren: Hmmm… yes.
Baud
@Cacti: Great. Not watching. Let me know if he gets asked the question. Hopefully he’ll do a better job than Warren.
different-church-lady
@Cacti:
I thought that was our raison d’être?
Patricia Kayden
@dmsilev: Talking about ICE, they’re now refusing to allow the 10-year old disabled child from getting follow-up visits after her emergency surgery. This is inhumane and barbaric behavior. Our press corps should be demanding answers about this case from the White House.
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti: Hmm, nope, haven’t gotten a CNN alert about it, just Elizabeth Warren calling the DNC rigged, and Kevin Spacey.
p.a.
@Cacti: Sessions has to addend the amendments to his testimony’s addendums.
Corner Stone
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I honestly think it is because Trump pooped his pants and they had to grab something fast before the photo op.
jl
@Patricia Kayden: I’ve been worrying about when blatant human rights crimes would start with Trumpster policies and thugs they installed, or unleashed from previous established procedure, would occur. I think we’ve reached the point, if the story is accurate.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Kevin Spacy was rigged?
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Cacti: That’s one reason, There’s atleast two others: 1) she’s promoting a book 2) she’s trying to rehab her status in the Village because she sent a dumb alert to Clinton’s campaign saying the Flint Michigan debate will include a question on water (Duh).
You don’t get a big money advance on a book and you don’t get to go back to Sally Quinn’s parties unless you appeal to their clinton derangement syndrome.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: I can’t. It wants me to create an account to see those.
Normally I can click on a tweet and find a whole thread of back and forth. So I guess this time it’s different.
Major Major Major Major
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Oh yeah, she did the debate thing, I’d forgotten about that.
All is forgiven though, she wrote a piece that shit on Hillary and was hagiographic towards Bernie.
JR
Could care less about Warren, Sanders or Clinton
The enemy is here and they are unrelenting
TenguPhule
@dmsilev:
Deep fat Fryer. While its still alive. On national television.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: Yeah, people just tweeting at her, not replying to anything in particular, will show up under Tweets & Replies. I didn’t know you had to sign up to use that button. Bastards!
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: My aunt, big Bernie supporter, just posted to Facebook saying Brazile had proven what she knew all along about the evil DNC.
I’m not worried about a Bernie takeover, I’m worried that the Bernie dead-enders will keep shitting all over whoever the party nominates in 2020 unless it’s Bernie, which will never happen. Everyone but Bernie will be Corporate and tainted, and to hell with beating Donald Fucking Trump.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
See you in Toledo Liz.
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
I think it’s a business decision. He is trying to make a point that he won’t accept unions in his businesses and will blow one up rather than accept unions. I don’t know if that’s a smart decision or not, but it’s more than just a tantrum.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Holy shit: Newsweek’s cover is a hilarious (photo)
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: Awesome & genuine in person, but too old, too much baggage, and now certainly too much of this ‘economic anxiety’ crap. Thanks Uncle Joe, but it’s time for fresh faces, por favor.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: Yep. It’s cemented. No reaching them now.
TenguPhule
@Trentrunner:
FFS, can’t the circular firing squad have a round of blanks JUST ONCE!!!
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
Millions of Russian bots, $27 at a time!
zhena gogolia
@Barbara:
You are so right.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Gin & Tonic:
I told ya. At the beginning of the year when she attacked Obama and then supported Ben Carson’s nomination that there’s something wrong with her.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Tell me again we can vote our way out of this mess.
/face in palms, deep sigh.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: We can. We have the power. We just have to want it.
Corner Stone
@Jeffro: Biden has run for president like 14 times and got smoked each time. He only got VP because people voted for Obama. IOW, he ain’t won shit at the national level and he never will or could.
He needs to fall the fuck back and shut his god damned WWC fucking piehole.
TenguPhule
@Cacti:
We’d like to, but they keep stabbing us in the back at the worst possible time.
Its kinda distracting.
Matt McIrvin
@JR: Honestly, at this point I couldn’t care less about defending Hillary Clinton. She’s not running again. I just want to see Democrats on the same page when they basically agree about policy, and when people say “the primary was rigged” what people hear is that the DNC was tampering with the voting machines, not some arcane stuff about campaign financing. This is such an own goal.
Captain C
@Hunter Gathers: The Times will claim it’s a new sauce he’s adding, Qusay will sell his stud farm’s output as Trump Thanksgiving Sauce, and his die-hards will eagerly eat it to spite the liberals.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I want to believe you.
I still can’t believe Warren fucking said that.
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: Who is “we”? Seems there is no “we”.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
And let’s not forget Clarence Thomas.
TenguPhule
@Matt McIrvin:
Cue our Media, “BOTH SIDES!! TRUMP WAS JUST COPYING DEM PLAYBOOK DURING GENERAL ELECTION!!”
Nation in a crisis and our fucking party can’t keep its shit together for even ten months.
Hildebrand
@Betty Cracker: In 2020, there will be a baker’s dozen of Democrats champing at the bit to win the nomination; not like 2016, when we had the great line-up of Hillary, Bernie, and Some Guy (yes, I know Martin Something-or-Other, a governor or somesuch whatnot from a state that may or may not actually exist – I can’t remember, don’t care to look it up, because he was just that scintillating). If Bernie had had to face a full soccer team of actual candidates, he would have gone absolutely nowhere. He is certainly not going anywhere when he is chasing Methuselah for the birthday candle record. (Neither is smilin’ Joe Biden.) Time to put the whole lot out to pasture and bring in the new kids. (There you go, I have mixed enough metaphors for the night. My work is done.)
TenguPhule
@Cacti:
At this point I don’t think anyone aside from BJers should be allowed to vote. And I’m not certain that all of us would qualify.
dogwood
@Matt McIrvin:
I fear that’s not gonna happen. In the 2020 cycle the Russians won’t have 2 sets of primaries to fuck around with; it will just be ours, and they will be even more lethal than they were in 2016.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Mine is starting to also. I belong to a few groups. I should be albe to find out which candidate they supported. So far, they’ve pretty much just been anti-Trump. I may be winnowing my feed in a day or two.
Major Major Major Major
@Hildebrand: Bernie will be hoping to play kingmaker.
@Matt McIrvin: I’m just saying that I’m not on board with talking about civil war and other nondemocratic fantasies while elections are still held and turnout is so low.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
You can kiss 2018 good fuckin’ bye now. How could she be so fucking stupid.
Corner Stone
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: $$$
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Corner Stone: Brazile $$$, but Warren WTF.
dogwood
@TenguPhule:
You shouldn’t be surprised Warren said that. She made a name for herself as a darling of the left because she criticized Obama.
Corner Stone
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: IMO, Warren is looking to capitalize on this reveal as well. If she isn’t already fundraising against the crooked DNC then I suspect she will in some form shortly.
Why else would she say something so stupid?
Baud
@dogwood: Policy criticism is different from this. Up till now, she has always observed that line.
debbie
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
The comments are pretty good too. A Trumpster’s up first, slamming Newsweek for their low ratings which are due to covers like this. Others point out, and then are blocked, that magazines don’t have ratings. Her sharp retort: “Well, they should!”
dogwood
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
She’s not stupid. She knows exactly what’s she’s doing.
TenguPhule
@dogwood: I credited her with at least some basic political common sense before now.
Tenar Arha
@Trentrunner: Sounds like Northam already did that for his own campaign, with his recent nod to legislation against “sanctuary cities” in Virginia. Via Jamelle Bouie’s Twitter today:
Ruckus
@jl:
That’s ALL of them are mentally unhinged.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Well at least when Trump cranks up Radio Rwanda in 2021, they’ll go to Liz’s house before mine. Goddamn her.
dogwood
@Tenar Arha:
Do you really think the sanctuary city issue is the key to democratic turnout in Va.?
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Right, that’s the “charlatans” part. They have a real problem, but they prefer a snake oil salesman over an actual doctor.
Also, using Hotwire I ended up with a room at Hotel Zeppelin in SF. Having met me, you understand how hilarious this is. ??
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
He needs to meet his Battle of Barnet.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: I don’t get why it’s funny? I also haven’t heard of the place until now.
@TenguPhule: this is perfectly sensible for her career.
Tenar Arha
@Cacti: It’s almost definitely a divestment dodge. A couple weeks ago there was a list of some of his big institutional investors in his funds and Sleeping Giants got to work on them because they were and are supporting Nazis. Here’s one report. Adam also mentioned he’s being sued by one of his former employees for comments the employee made about Trump & Mercer support for him, and which then got the employee fired.
ETA clarified
different-church-lady
@debbie: Very Ken M.-esque.
Mnemosyne
@p.a.:
Not just that, but the Democrat who bailed them out of their financial difficulties. It’s a scandal, I tells ya!
different-church-lady
@dogwood:
Going after the Bernie-Bro money?
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
In the short term.
At the expense of party and country.
Long term, not so much.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Me checking into a Led Zeppelin-themed hotel?
Mnemosyne
@different-church-lady:
I still suspect that a whole lot of those $27 donations originated in places like Vladivostok and Omsk, but I’m a little paranoid that way.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: I guess that’s pretty funny, sure.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Geez, way to kill my self-deprecating joke, man. ?
divF
@TenguPhule: God as his witness, he thought that the turkey could fly.
Tenar Arha
@dogwood: The people it would attract will never believe him, or vote for him. The people it would completely turn off are already teetering on not turning out for him. Banning sanctuary cities, as far as I can tell from my out of state POV, reading Feeds and articles by people who live there, sound like that has become the dog whistle version of “mohr sundown towns!” Virginia has a big, unaddressed past, of sundown towns (most states do!), and Northam appears to have just told POC he’s unreliable.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: I thought you were trying to suggest you were a flaming gasbag, but decided not to say anything.
TenguPhule
@divF: Okay, now that was actually funny.
Mnemosyne, pay attention. You could learn from divF.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
No, just someone who hates Led Zeppelin. Though given my digestive issues … trust me, you don’t want to go there.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@different-church-lady: Yeah. Remember how Lord Bernie’s delegates shouted her down at the convention.
She was the only senator who didn’t endorse a candidate during the primaries, and the Bern-outs attacked her repeatedly for remaining neutral.
And for the denials to the contrary, Warren has national ambitions. Remember how she spent weeks auditioning to be Clinton’s attack dog before she selected her veep and then toned-it way down when she wasn’t picket.
SgrAstar
@Cheryl Rofer: without a lawyer!!!??? Was that voluntary? If so, bad thinking on his part. Omnes, LAO, steveinatl, burnsie- weigh in!
Kathleen
@different-church-lady: “Bro Bucks”.
Tenar Arha
@dogwood:
Addendum:
Of course I can only read so much. I’m taking the word of Virginians like Bouie, that Northam’s choice is going to depress turn out. And I’m pretty much extrapolating from history for how restricting who could live in parts of cities or whole towns; places where strangers were denied the protection of law, or actively legislated against.
Tim C.
@Cacti: a-effing-men.
dogwood
@Tenar Arha:
I get what you’re saying. I don’t know either. I have had a bad feeling about this election for a long time. Gillespie’s campaign is designed to maximize republican turnout. As Trump proved, overt racism is the ultimate maximizer for infrequent R voters. I don’t think there is much democrats can do to compete with that.
SgrAstar
@Cacti: @Cacti:
Well said, Cacti. That’s IT, period. I am so disappointed in Warren. UGH.
Gvg
@Roger Moore: you the curve for white men doesn’t actually explain anything. There are a lot of white men. Even a lot of rich white men. Some of them are competant. Enough of them should have been able to knock Trump off his lead and even knock out Carter Page. Morons succeeding at this level is still improbable. There has to be more to it than just a curve.
Mike in Pasadena
@Xecky Gilchrist: There are Republicans already claiming that Trump is not a Republican. This morning in Wa Post comments, I responded to a Republican who made that assertion. I said something along the lines that Republicans voted for Trump, Republicans on the Electoral College selected Trump, and Republicans in Congress and Trump are working together to implement the Republican’s agenda. Thus, Trump is a Republican. Republicans own Trump.
Bill Arnold
@Trentrunner:
A hopefully-temporary return to her Republican roots, perhaps.
Mnemosyne
@Gvg:
That’s where the Russians come in. If not for their meddling, Trump would still be a failed game show host sniping about politics on his Twitter feed.
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
The
PeterPyotr Principle.SgrAstar
@Tenar Arha: Jim Simons founded Renaissance and is a huge democratic donor and Berkeley supporter. Have to wonder whether Mercer was pushed out.
Noah Brand
https://i.imgur.com/SlVEPys.jpg
John Steed
I think Jared’s probably in trouble on several dimensions. He probably advised Trump to fire Comey, and that may turn into a charge of obstruction of justice. Second, he’s probably been involved in laundering money (see https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/24/jared-kushner-new-york-russia-money-laundering for example), and it is very clear that Mueller knows how to deal with money laundering. Finally, he probably knows a lot about any contacts with the Russian agents peddling stolen emails.
The first two items probably give Mueller immense leverage over Jared.
And note, this is all based on what I can figure out from 30 seconds in google. Mueller, with subpoena powers and informants, is infinitely better placed to turn everyone in this administration into a sock puppet.