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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Russiagate Minor Players Open Thread: “Clowns & Imbeciles”

Russiagate Minor Players Open Thread: “Clowns & Imbeciles”

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Josh Marshall, at TPM:

Former Trump campaign advisor Michael Caputo went on MSNBC this afternoon and said George Papadopoulos was “stupid” and “had no business” being at that March 2016 foreign policy advisor meeting where he apparently talked up his ability to set up meetings with Russians or even with Vladimir Putin. He went on to say that Papadopoulos was only there because Donald Trump was getting slammed for not having any foreign policy advisors and a group was thrown together with basically zero idea of who the people even were.

“He was invited in because at the time the campaign was really reeling from criticism that it had no foreign policy or other advisers,” Caputo said during an interview with Katy Tur. “Donald Trump prided himself on running a lean and mean campaign. That group was slap dash put together in a way another campaign wouldn’t do it. Papadopoulos had no business being there.”…

But none of this is a defense. It’s irrelevant. He had no business being there and yet he was there. According to government charging documents he remained an advisor almost until the end of the campaign and was clearly in regular email contact with the campaign’s policy director, Sam Clovis. The Trumpers have long pushed this argument that they were too inexperienced, disorganized or simply too stupid to have conspired with Russians to subvert the election. That’s not how it works. As we’ve noted in recent days, intelligence operatives (of any country) are looking precisely for people who are desperate, stupid, inexperienced, crooked when they are trying to penetrate or compromise any organization or find collaborators within it. That is when you have something to work with.

The Trumpers might just as well have said well, Don Jr. and Jared Kushner, two complete neophytes and rubes, had zero business with senior roles running the campaign and meeting with foreign government emissaries as we know they did in the June meeting at Trump Tower. Definitely, “stupid”, definitely “no business” being there. And yet they were there. Desperate, stupid, inexperienced, crooked – the Trumpers checked basically every box…

And then there’s this guy…


.

Speaking of which…

Reader Interactions

62Comments

  1. 1.

    Trentrunner

    I’m afraid we’ll find out on Tuesday just how little effect this (completely justified) focus on Russia has on Dems’ electoral prospects.

  6. 6.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Trentrunner is pretty good at hitting these threads early to derail them. Let’s talk about Anne’s topic.

    It’s remarkable how these nobodies – Page, Papadopoulos, Clovis, JD Gordon – all of a sudden showed up as foreign policy experts. I hadn’t ever heard of them before, and still can’t find much to support the idea that they know any more than your crazy uncle about foreign policy.

    Trump told us the other day why he hasn’t staffed up the State Department. It’s because he has the best brain and doesn’t need all those people saying stuff he doesn’t understand and doesn’t care about. So he’s been consistent. I believe the story that back in March he was taking criticism for not having a foreign policy team and just pulled some names out of a hat. But who handed him that hat? We still don’t know that.

  9. 9.

    Roger Moore

    “He was invited in because at the time the campaign was really reeling from criticism that it had no foreign policy or other advisers,” Caputo said during an interview with Katy Tur. “Donald Trump prided himself on running a lean and mean campaign. That group was slap dash put together in a way another campaign wouldn’t do it. Papadopoulos had no business being there.”

    This is the worst kind of defense. Seriously, he’s literally saying that Trump put together an advisory committee made of a bunch of ignorant nobodies because he figured it would be better than getting criticized in the press for lacking any advisers at all. Are we really supposed to be happy that:

    1) Trump doesn’t think he really needs any advisers,
    2) He can’t get competent people to work with him, and
    3) He’s willing to do stuff that goes against his personal judgment to get the news media off his back

    And this is what they’re offering up as Trump’s defense, because the alternative is that he had a bunch of guys like Papadopolous and Page as advisers for some even worse reason.

  11. 11.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    Trump on Papadopoulos meeting: “I don’t remember much about that meeting, it was a very unimportant meeting. Don’t remember much about it.”

    Let’s be Scrupulously Fair to this dotard: he doesn’t remember much about anything.

  12. 12.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Trentrunner is pretty good at hitting these threads early to derail them. Let’s talk about Anne’s topic.

    I mean, I can understand why people enjoy baked desserts, but I really don’t see the necessity of mentioning them in every thread.

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    It’s like my dad, a former police officer, used to say: “If they had any brains, they wouldn’t be crooks”.

    I think he meant to say “self-regulation” instead of “brains”, but the idea’s pretty much the same.

  16. 16.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    But who handed him that hat? We still don’t know that.

    We know where the hat originated. We just don’t know who the middleman was. And our trollish comrade really wishes we would stop talking about it.

  17. 17.

    p.a.

    If we can’t get Sessions on perjury can we force a resignation based on mental debility: CRS disease? Can’t Remember Shit.

  18. 18.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    The brilliant criminal who gets away with everything is pretty much an invention of Arthur Conan Doyle, when he had to come up with Moriarty because all of Sherlock Holmes’s opponents were too easily defeated.

  19. 19.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Roger Moore: I think we all knew he doesn’t think he needs any advisors. I question whether he has any judgment at all, but I agree he’s willing to do pretty much whatever to shut the media up, even if it goes against his beliefs.

    It’s all fucking surreal. But we all knew that, too.

  20. 20.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Compounding the stupidity of picking a bunch of randos from someone’s hat is the naivete that those randos showed when confronted with the opportunity to make friends with Russians. So we’ve got this guy Joseph Mifsud, from a clearly nonexistent university, telling Papadopoulos that he can fix him up with Vladimir Putin, and Papadopoulos is like “You’re my bro!”

    It may just be that I’ve had too much indoctrination on such things, and maybe Papadopoulos never watched a spy movie, but I would have, like, checked the guy’s name and organization on the internet. And when what turned up looked fake, I would have shut down the fake email I gave Mifsud.

    Papadopoulos and Page were recruited. They’re exactly the kind of guys Russians recruit. We need to know more about the timing of that and their being put on Trump’s team.

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer: nobodies show up because no one with any sense or sanity wants to get within Shit Midas’ range of touch. Just like with providing him financing: the only people who’ll deal with Trumpov are fools or folks with a malevolent agenda

  22. 22.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s a good question. We haven’t heard much from or about Reince lately. I think he’s talked to Mueller’s people. I tend to think that he’s more ignorant of the Russian connections, but he was chair of the RNC, and I am working on a post about Republicans and this mess.

  23. 23.

    Fair Economist

    @Mnemosyne:

    The brilliant criminal who gets away with everything is pretty much an invention of Arthur Conan Doyle, when he had to come up with Moriarty because all of Sherlock Holmes’s opponents were too easily defeated.

    Is that really his fault? That trope really annoys me.

  25. 25.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Jeffro: Which gave the Russians an opening to drive a truck through. That seems to be how they got into Trump’s financial orbit too.

    Kind of obvious when you think about it, the kind of thing that reporters might have thought back before the election.

  26. 26.

    germy

    @Cheryl Rofer: From the WaPo article about Donna Brazile

    Brazile says she tried to persuade her Republican counterparts to agree to a joint statement condemning Russian interference but that they ignored her messages and calls.

    Backstage at a debate, she writes, she approached Sean Spicer, then-chief strategist for the Republican National Committee, but “I could see his eyes dart away like this was the last thing he wanted to talk to me about.” She asked RNC Chairman Reince Priebus, too, but “I got that special D.C. frost where the person smiles when he sees you but immediately looks past you trying to find someone in the room to come right over and interrupt the conversation.”

  30. 30.

    Marguerite Hill

    @(((CassandraLeo))):
    But #DotardDonnie has asserted time & time again that he has the best brain, the most concise memory. He’s a real smart cookie. Etc. Etc. Etc. Blah blah blah.

  34. 34.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer: yes. Most things wrong about Trumpov have been obvious/out in the open for quite sometime.

    Just like the Russia-related issues: The guy asked Russia to hack Hillary‘s emails at a press conference … he admitted in a TV interview that he fired the FBI director to obstruct justice. He admitted to sexual assault on TV . I guess this is considered “authenticity” by the marketing types…

  36. 36.

    Millard Filmore

    @Jeffro:

    the only people who’ll deal with Trumpov are fools or folks with a malevolent agenda

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Which gave the Russians an opening to drive a truck through. That seems to be how they got into Trump’s financial orbit too.

    So the Russians got Trump, and got him early. Its likely that they sucked in a bunch of the Republican top leadership as well. Trump is flaming out here, either by our lawful institutions or by crashing the country. Assuming the best for us, I wonder who the Russians have queued up next to spread chaos. They HAVE to be grooming someone.

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    There are no minor players. There are less important players, there are less connected players. But there are no minor players.

    Pulling a deuce from the house of cards can topple it just as readily as snatching out an ace.

  43. 43.

    J R in WV

    @Kristine:

    Ooh, ooh, who’d you pie? I got 15 people in there now, mostly not around much anymore. I just wondered who drove you over the line…

  45. 45.

    Cermet

    Since the confederates hold congress, these traitors will never put a check upon dolt 45 much less investigate the penetration that our greatest enemy -which has many thousands of massively powerful hydrogen bombs point at us – and actually do their job defending the constitution.

  49. 49.

    Kristine

    @J R in WV: Mmmmmm…one of the obvious trolls. I figure that since they just derail the conversation, may as well shunt them to the side right off.

    Plus, I wanted to see how the filter worked. It’s pretty cool.

  52. 52.

    Jeffro

    @satby: really? It has probably been around forever, along with “follow the money” and “cui bono?/who benefits?”

  53. 53.

    Mike in DC

    Actually, Carter Page is kinda the main character in the dossier. He features in more allegations than anyone else.

  56. 56.

    Frank Wilhoit

    So as to why Trump lies, it is a dominance play. Telling someone the truth grants them equal standing with you. Trump has a total emotional block against doing that, of such long standing that it is no longer remotely conscious.

    The importance of this, going far beyond Trump, is to understand that very, very few lies are told for gain, or even for tactical advantage. The purpose of lies is to degrade and humiliate their hearers.

  57. 57.

    mad citizen

    The obvious follow-up to this one “The Trumpers have long pushed this argument that they were too inexperienced, disorganized or simply too stupid to have conspired with Russians to subvert the election. ” is Why do they all think they should be running our Executive Branch? If this is the case, why don’t they all simply vacate? It’s clear Trump has no interest in doing the job. He stopped off to visit his branded Hawaii hotel. WTF? I thought he wasn’t supposed to be tending to his side business. It’s like if Obama had gotten a side gig at Georgetown teaching law while he was President.

    I believe I read that 40 people were convicted in the Watergate scandal. That’s a good over/under for Russiagate, although certainly bonus points for POTUS and VP.

  58. 58.

    catclub

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    Let’s be Scrupulously Fair to this dotard: he doesn’t remember much about anything.

    But whenever he says that, nobody points out that he has said he has ‘one of the best memories, like ever.’ How come somebody with the best memory cannot remember anything from that meeting.

    In addition, if he cannot remember anything from that meeting, how does he know it was unimportant?

  59. 59.

    Aleta

    Raid on Manafort’s home July 26.

    Papadopoulus arrested July 27.

    Priebus out, Kelly in. July 28.
    Donald J. TrumpVerified account
    I am pleased to inform you that I have just named General/Secretary John F Kelly as White House Chief of Staff. He is a Great American….

  62. 62.

    fuckwit

    @Jeffro: My old man used to say: “Criminals are by definition stupid. If they were smart, they’d be businessmen, and figure out how to get rich without getting caught.”

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