Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The revolution will be supervised.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

T R E 4 5 O N

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Agonize - Organize / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Fighting Back

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Fighting Back

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Progress happens where it happens, not necessarily where it’s expected. From the Guardian, “‘It’s a revolution’: polygamist sect loses power over Utah town for first time”:

A fundamentalist religious sect that commands its women members to wear pioneer-era dresses and that became infamous for mass polygamy and child marriage appears to have had its power over a small town broken for the first time in its history.

Three non-fundamentalist council members are reported to have won against incumbents loyal to the sect “by a landslide” in Hildale, southern Utah, on Tuesday night.

And, in a closer race, an all-but-official majority of voters have chosen a new mayor, who also ran as an “outsider” to challenge the authority of the fringe religion over the isolated community.

Donia Jessop fully expects to be confirmed as the new mayor once a small number of outstanding postal ballots are counted in the next week. Her ascendence will be a potent symbol of a new era in the community.

“It’s a great leap, a revolution,” Jessop told the Guardian on Wednesday morning.

Majority control on the town council of Hildale is now set to transfer away from the outlaw church group known as the Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), which has controlled the town since they settled more than 100 years ago…

“The most important thing is that the wider world now understands that Hildale is changing,” said Jessop, who nevertheless lives unofficially but openly as a polygamist. At least one of the three other non-fundamentalist candidates tolerates polygamy, while rejecting the strict theocracy imposed by the FLDS, which dictates that the word of Jeffs is divine law.

Hildale has a population of fewer than 3,000 and just over 365 registered voters. “I’m ahead by 25 votes and I feel really good about the result. I’m pretty confident this will be confirmed,” she said.

It was a mail-in race and the town has until 14 November to count all the ballots. Jessop had expected a mayoral landslide over incumbent Philip Barlow, who is loyal to the FLDS.

“But a lot of ex-FLDS men who said they would vote for me didn’t; they voted for the man. The entire state of Utah is very patriarchal,” said Jessop…

Apart from taking delight in the wins, wherever we find them, what’s on the agenda for the day?


***********
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In other news, Brad Paisley co-hosted the Country Music Awards last night, and later perceptive Canadian Journalist Daniel Dale sneakily outed him…

Reader Interactions

220Comments

  3. 3.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning, rikyrah ?

    Brad Paisley is the guy who namedropped Balloon Juice on A Prairie Home Companion a few years ago (there’s a rotating tag about it).

  5. 5.

    TheMightyTrowel

    Hello all – I know I’ve been absent, but thought I’d check in and say hi! I’ve been writing a book and it’s HARD WORK. Also, I’m Australian now. I started my citizenship application the day after the election because I figured it was time for a second country to have my back, and it all went through really fast – did the swearing in ceremony a couple of weeks ago.

  11. 11.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Trump mocked to riotous laughter at last night’s Country Music Awards.

    Brad Paisley (Balloon-Juice lurker) and Carrie Underwood opened the show roasting Drumpf to a warm reception in front of audience full of country fans.

    “Right now, he’s probably in his PJ’s, watchin’ cable news and reachin’ for his cell phone,” he sang. “Right now, he’s probably askin’ Siri, ‘how in the hell do you spell Pochahontas?’”

    “In the middle of the night from the privacy, of a gold-plated White House toilet seat, he writes ‘little Bob Corker, NFL and covfefe,’” Paisley sang, pausing to question just exactly how President Donald Trump’s infamous “covfefe” gaffe is pronounced.

    “It’s fun to watch, yeah that’s for sure, til little Rocket Man starts a nuclear war, and then maybe next time he’ll think before he tweets,” the hosts sang.

    (video)

    They even made fun of Collusion

  13. 13.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Fox News freaks out over landslide loss as Tom Perez twists the knife:

    Bartiromo attacked Perez for not talking with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) after Brazile claimed that the Clinton campaign had undue influence over the DNC before the 2016 Democratic primary even started.

    Perez, however, refused to take the bait.

    “Maria, we are focused on winning elections, focused on the future here,” he said.

    “Right, unfortunately Bernie Sanders’s hopes were dashed because it was rigged,” Bartiromo interrupted.

    Perez pointed out that, whatever problems the DNC had with its ties to the Clinton campaign, Hillary Clinton still won the Democratic nomination fairly by getting 4 million more votes than Sanders did.

    “But now we know it was rigged!” she shouted back.

    “Maria, I understand that, when the Democrats win, as they did last night, that you’d like focus on other things,” Perez retorted.

    Later in the interview, Bartiromo bashed the DNC for not giving over its computers to the FBI in the wake of the Russian hacks — and implied that there was some damaging information on those computers “that you didn’t want anyone to see.”

    “Maria, you are in a fictional wonderland right now,” Perez replied, with a grin on his face.

    Heh!

    (link)

  18. 18.

    Amir Khalid

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    It’s probably too much to expect Brad Paisley to start commenting here, but he should be named an Official Balloon Juice Celebrity Lurker.

  27. 27.

    Feathers

    @rikyrah: @OzarkHillbilly: I’m thinking there is going to be a lawsuit soon against someone who signed an NDA, claiming harm from not being warned about whatever was being covered up. Lawyer Jackals, could someone who signed an NDA be considered part of a conspiracy to cover up a crime?

  28. 28.

    Adria McDowell

    @rikyrah: Morgen, rikyrah, fellow jackets.

    Good morning, Brad Paisley!

    @NobodySpecial: My bet is Adam is actually Brad Paisley. Have you ever seen the two of them together in the same place???

  31. 31.

    TS

    @TheMightyTrowel: Welcome to citizenship of the land down under – don’t forget If you want to become a federal politician – you have to give up citizenship of all and any other countries :) – but you don’t have to be born here – you could become Prime Minister.

  34. 34.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @rikyrah:

    Now we can be sure that the $32 million dollar payout woman had PROOF that would stand up in court, which is why she got the $32 million.

    No, we can’t. That clause was in O’Reilly’s old contract. The new one he signed had an explicit clause changing it such that it did not require proof that would hold in court in order to fire him.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: True, but FOX viewers aren’t completely brain dead, and someone needs to point out to them NOW that it was impossible for the DNC to rig the votes in Mississippi or South Carolina unless the Republican SoS there were in it with them or were complete incompetents. Hillary didn’t lose to trump because Comey wrote a letter to Congress one week before the election, she lost the election because that letter played into the well established 20 yo GOP narrative that the Clinton’s are lying, scheming, EEEEEvil doers.

    Don’t let them use the word “rigged” without challenging them on it, especially after all the voter suppression tactics they’ve engaged in.

  36. 36.

    TS

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I am shocked, shocked I tell you. I know you are too.

    I am somewhat shocked that any employer would allow such a clause in a contract – not shocked that O’Reilly would have it there.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Feathers: I do not think so, because that would make them aiding and abetting a crime after the fact, kind of like helping dispose of a body.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: You know if he engages on the issue, it’s at least another week in the news cycle. The GOP would live the distraction right now.

    I think pushing back against the rigged primary meme is going to be the task of the rank and file.

  42. 42.

    Mustang Bobby

    @TheMightyTrowel: How do you like driving on the left? I heard that Ford is building Mustangs with right-hand drive — no more conversions — to capture the RHD market such as Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. I’d like to drive on just for grins.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It is something that saving the party financially is considered rigging the primary but pushing caucuses to disenfranchise Democrat voter is not. Strange times.

  45. 45.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: It’s not going to go away anytime soon, especially as long as Brazille is promoting her book. Pushing back against the rigged narrative is everybody’s job, top to bottom. When Perez or anybody else avoids the question it looks like they have something to hide. They could say, “The language in that agreement is troubling and we are taking steps to ensure it could not occur again, but it in no way rigged the primaries as it is impossible for the DNC to do that.”

    I personally, as a private individual not on tv, would add “and what the hell is wrong with the Democratic party favoring the only DEM in the primary? Bernie is not, never was, and never will be a DEM, so fuck him and his whining.”

  49. 49.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Mustang Bobby:

    I drove quite a bit in Australia in May – all in the areas of Cairns, Port Douglas, Mossman and Cape Tribulation in the north end of QLD. On the straightaway it doesn’t feel too awkward after the first few minutes (although I kept turning on the windshield wipers when I wanted to signal); the real awkwardness is in the multi lane roundabouts. Everything is counterintuitive.

    We used cabs in Sydney, and when I was talking to the one coming from the airport, he chuckled when I told him I’d be renting – said “I went to the bloody US last year mate, and it takes a couple of days to get used to something that different to what you’re used to”. He was right.

  51. 51.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’d have liked him to give her a look of incredulity as he asked her if she really expected people to believe there are no RNC emails worrying about how to deal with the threat of Trump entering the GOP campaign. Oh, Maria…

  55. 55.

    Baud

    Based on my feed, RT is highlighting the conspiracy theoriest that Trump made Pompeo meet with. Apparently the Russian hacking is fake news.

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:Given the choice between “troubling language” or “the primaries were rigged”, which would you rather they focus on? Because they will focus on something. Not saying anything let’s them set the narrative. We’ve been doing that for far too long.

  57. 57.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    An observation – Trump wouldn’t be doing nearly so bad on a polling basis were it not for the combative tweeting and the reckless hyperbole on routine positive news (as well as obnoxious self promoting claims).

    Had he been more quiet, his policies and noms would have been generally accepted by urban collar center right whites. What they recognize and dislike is self-promotion.

  58. 58.

    bystander

    Bartiromo was being promoted as some network’s It Girl. Then rumors swirled around inappropriate behavior, flying alone in private planes with moneymen she was supposedly covering, trouble in her marriage IIRC. Then she disappeared and turned up in cableville. Who could ever have guessed she’d end up a rightwing shill?

  60. 60.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: And if we’re finally willing to cut the Bernie people loose, then I agree we should push back on the narrative. But we collectively haven’t reached that point yet.

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    The media wouldn’t distinguish between those two.

    That’s why we need to, on air, as often as we can. We need to stop letting the GOP use the “media” as their own personal propaganda arm. When Hannity puts out his BS, get somebody’s ass on his show, and if he won’t allow it, call him out for being a coward.

  67. 67.

    But her emails!!!

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “The language in the agreement was troubling, but…” Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. The only thing that needs to be repeated is that the DNC did not control the outcome of the primary and Hillary won it fairly by getting more votes. That’s it. Anything else buys into the ridiculous framing that the DNC rigged the election, especially any statement that includes a but clause.

  68. 68.

    Ian G.

    So Brad Paisley is a liberal? Don’t really know his music, but cool to have him on our side, along with other country musicians like Steve Earle (famous lefty), the Dixie Chicks, Jason Isbell (who has no problem telling his wingnut fans to go fuck themselves on Twitter), Kacey Musgraves (I think?), Ryan Bingham (lots of shots at the Bush administration on the “Roadhouse Sun” album).

    There are probably others I’m missing.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: After a year of emails, I don’t know why you think we can defeat the power of the media by fighting the media in the media.

    Let’s keep focusing on organizing on the ground. That’s how we won and that’s how will win.

  70. 70.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Or if we can get everyone to look forward, we can find a candidate for us all to smash the GOP. There’s always that option. ;)

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @bystander:

    Cable “financial news” hosts are not given enough credit for being the Right wing hacks that they are. They’re the “finance” versions of Bill O’Reilly or Rush Limbaugh.

  73. 73.

    danielx

    @rikyrah:

    And a good morning to you!

    I must say it is good – better than good, wonderful – to have some positive news. I’ve been feeling pretty hopeless over the past twelve months. It will undoubtedly take years and a lot of work to recover from the damage Rs are inflicting at the moment under the dubious leadership of Lord Shortfingers, but most things worth doing are generally not easy.

    Because it’s never too early for cat pics, here’s one of the latest obstacle to productivity at Chez X. It’s a repost of a late night comment a day or two ago, but worth showing since it’s proof positive that cats do talk. Boris is saying clear as anything that I don’t need to be working, what I need is a cat. His sister Natasha is curled up on my legal pad at the moment, but she has figured out that my typing disturbs her repose.

  74. 74.

    raven

    @Ian G.: I know Earle’s ex manager and he said Steve is a scumbag sober or on smack but easier to deal with when he’s smacked.

  75. 75.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    And if we’re finally willing to cut the Bernie people loose, then I agree we should push back on the narrative.

    You’ve lost me here. By my figuring, not pushing back on the “rigged” narrative is guaranteed to lose the Bernie people. It’s an admittance that it was rigged. That’s why I say “I as a private individual don’t see anything wrong with the DNC favoring the only DEM in the race….”

  81. 81.

    Amir Khalid

    @debbie:
    It might turn out that Trump brought on his own destruction by running for President and winning. Had he remained a celebrity cartoon “billionaire”, the FBI wouldn’t have had cause to take such a long hard look at him and his doings.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    “Right, unfortunately Bernie Sanders’s hopes were dashed because it was rigged,” Bartiromo interrupted.

    They’re just bad at their jobs. She’s not doing any thinking at all. She’s an over-paid parrot. They add absolutely no value – just pull it off Twitter and repeat it.

    There’s something fucked up about this as a market. Why do they get paid so much? Why hasn’t this market corrected? They have been employed for years and they add absolutely nothing to the bullshit they pull off the internet.

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    I don’t know why you think we can defeat the power of the media by fighting the media in the media.

    The media is the playing ground, not the opponent. The GOP is the opponent and we have ceded the playing ground to them.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    If anyone had any doubt that the “Bernie Sanders was robbed” theme was extremely useful to the far Right, the breathless coverage of Brazile’s ridiculous and nonsensical Politico piece should convince them.

    Her theory doesn’t make any sense. She changes it every day. It’s fucking gibberish. These people make tens of millions of dollars every year and they are incapable of reading something and determining that it’s gibberish.

  91. 91.

    Lee

    Not to bring too much rain on the our parade but local signs point to an economic downturn.

    My wife is a veterinarian in a wealthy suburb of Dallas. Her business is very sensitive to economic anxiety. Right before The Great Recession her clinic was a ghost town. The last 3 weeks business has been very very slow (not as bad a before).

    It could be just a local thing or it could be everyone was anxious about the election night that just passed.

  92. 92.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: I do not disagree with that approach, I am saying it is not the only approach. There are a lot of people in the DEM party and many paths to victory. Don’t let the GOP use any of them without a challenge.

  95. 95.

    TS

    @OzarkHillbilly: Guess I’m naive – cannot imagine what you would think on an employee to allow that in a contract – and it was taken out – so someone at Fox knew it wasn’t a great idea.

  96. 96.

    Patricia Kayden

    @debbie: He’s doing his best on that. I’m surprised that no one in Trump’s inner circle has told him to dial back all the frivolous nonsense like the unnecessarily combative tweets and public attacks on members of his own Party.

  97. 97.

    Amir Khalid

    @debbie:
    Yes he did. He’s never had to suffer for his mistakes or his misdeeds, never got to learn when to stop short of doing damage to himself, and this is where it’s got him.

    Edited.

  100. 100.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Kay: Who in their right mind believes that Conservatives give a dang about Senator Sanders’ presidential candidacy? We’re talking about people who support the mass disenfranchisement of Black voters, who want to shut down Mueller’s investigation into Russia’s interference and who have cheered for each of Trump’s fascist moves.

    Bernie lost because minority voters supported Clinton. No rigging was necessary for that.

  101. 101.

    Ian G.

    @raven:

    Doesn’t really surprise me. I mean, being a lefty and a flaming asshole are not mutually exclusive (see Wilmer for more on that).

  102. 102.

    Steeplejack

    @danielx:

    No, actually “rip and read” was better, because the local outlets were taking their stuff from the wire services, i.e., serious, reputable sources.

  103. 103.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: You may be right but that just shows how out of control he is. His behavior is embarrassing and shockingly juvenile.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Have you seen the clip of the Morning Joe panel all announcing the Democrat would lose in Virginia? It’s hilarious. It’s like a parody of bad pundits.

    They are paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for this. They’re all still employed. Forever. If they’re not on Morning Joe they’ll be on a different show making HUGE paychecks.

  105. 105.

    Baud

    @Kay: I don’t watch Joe except when the TV is turned on MSNBC because I watched Rachel the night before.

    But I did see so many stories kn election day about how worried the Dems were and how they were blowing it.

  106. 106.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay:

    She’s an over-paid parrot.

    Excellent description. I saw that clip with Perez, and basically, she just squawked wingnut tweets every time he paused to take a breath. If there’s any justice, AI will have her job soon — it could replace all the Fox Bots. The Murdochs won’t have to worry about mechanical parrots groping someone and necessitating multi-million-dollar settlements, so it’s a win-win.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @Patricia Kayden:

    No one ever asks Brazile about the ” Clinton had more voters” problem in her theory, because who gives a shit about VOTERS, right?

    I would just tell people to go read the Politico piece and ask yourself it it makes any sense at all. It really doesn’t and that’s the part of the book she thought was the BEST. Imagine the rest of it.

  110. 110.

    Weaselone

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    In the cases where the right wing doesn’t own the playground outright, there are still special rules in place that only apply to liberals. Right wingers can freely smear feces on the playground equipment while liberals are charged with felonies if they face the wrong way while swinging.

    Liberals should still use the playground, but they need to be really smart about it if they want an outcome that doesn’t involve them sitting in the back of a police car covered in elephant shit.

    Responding to a charge of pig fucking by acknowledging an unhealthy love of bacon and pork sausage is not a good first step.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    My favorite part of their performance is when they narrow their eyes and imitate what they believe someone who is asking “tough questions” would look like. It’s not even good acting. It’s moronic to focus on one word- in this instance it’s “rigged” but they focus on one word A LOT. In the fake IRS scandal they focused on the word “target”. They’re not thinking at all. They’re like some kind of awful dumb machine that scans reports for catchy words.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    They end up creating a kind of “term of art” – rigged now has a meaning that is different than the dictionary definition of the word – it contains a whole (wrong) theory. This happens about once a month. There are hundreds of these words now. A whole made-up vocabulary – a kind of dumb and simple vocabulary, to boot. The real word set is much better and richer than the one they created but they can no longer speak that language.

  117. 117.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: Not from me. I just said I wish he had answered the question (he should have an answer by now) rather than ignore it.

  119. 119.

    Nora

    Last night I happened to be at the gym where Faux News was playing. Fascinating stuff. Hannity started his show with a recap of Trump’s glorious election win of 2016, gloating about how all the media and pundits were wrong about Trump and ha ha suck on it Hillary and Libs. Then he talked about Tuesday’s elections, but he took the tack that all these victories were expected — they were all in Democratic strongholds, nobody expected any Republicans to win any of those seats, but look, the liberal media (which was so wrong when it came to 2016, he reminded people) were making such a big deal out of such PREDICTABLE wins. It was amusing to watch, I have to say.

  120. 120.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Lee: it could be related to the hurricane. often times a shock isn’t fully absorbed for a few months.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    No, I didn’t – thanks. I’ll read it. I’m glad it’s a memo because I don’t trust Al Girodiano. I am the annoying person at work who says “this is FINE- we can fix it!” and even I find him too cheery and upbeat. Being a team player is one thing. Being delusional is another :)

    Democrats were in big trouble in 2010. Pretending they weren’t isn’t helpful.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @Kay: I find it hard to keep track of who is reliable and who is a putz. I guess that’s what the putzes are counting on.

  123. 123.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Baud: perennial hack ruth marcus was trying so, so hard to rain on our parade yesterday. something about how we didn’t deserve to win because voters were so anti-trump.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    We had to replace the main water line to the house – it’s 1940’s copper and it leaks- so I thought this would cost 10,000 dollars- I just completely made that up – and it’s less than 1,000 dollars. Such a nice surprise! It only takes one day!

    You would not even believe the horror I pictured. No connection to reality.

  127. 127.

    Just one more canuck

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was in Mexico City for work one time. I was going back to the airport when we came across construction. Somebody in the lane next to us nearly clipped one of the workers. The worker’s friends pulled the driver out of his car and beat the shit out of him, and people in other cars were cheering them on

  128. 128.

    Peale

    @Kay: both Brooks and the token liberal Shields agreed on Friday on NewsHour that the Democrats had blown the election and would be unable to get their voters out. Mark Shields has been the token liberal pundit on NewsHour since I was 12. David Brooks by comparison is the young new voice. There is absolutely nothing that a pundit can do apparently to lose a punditing gig.

  129. 129.

    Chet

    gme1. I am encouraged by this Brad Paisley information but I am not yet forgiving his awful Nationwide insurance commercial.

    In election news, I made it onto the school board. My motto is Franken style: shut up and work hard for the first term.

  131. 131.

    danielx

    @Kay:

    This is the same phenomenon that has kept David Brooks gainfully employed and squatting on some of the most valuable editorial real estate in existence for longer than I care to think about. Being woefully, repeatedly wrong has never been a bar to being a well paid pundit.

    ETA: see Kristol, Bill.

  132. 132.

    JMG

    It’s undeniably true that off-year Democratic victories are primarily reactions to Republican incumbent Presidents. The same is just as true for Republican off-year victories and Democratic Presidents, but Republicans manage to convince pundits that those victories were because of the popularity of Republican policies and because we’re “a center-right nation:” whatever the hell that means.

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    The media is the GOP’s handmaiden. We trust them at our peril.

    Oh bullshit. That’s why I see so many trucks with “I don’t watch the Lieberal media” bumper stickers. And trust has nothing to do with it. Eyeballs do. The media wants eyeballs and they don’t care who gives them to them. For over 4 years the GOP gave them Benghazi/E-mails 24/7 and it got them eyeballs. If DEMs get the House in ’18 we can do the exact same thing with Russia etc and it will get them eyeballs. We should not wait until then tho. Every Sunday morn they should have some grave and serious Senator on the talking heads pondering about the seriousness of the Russia investigation, the GOP’s continuing efforts to deny healthcare to people, the tax cuts for the rich, ad nauseum.

    The point is to fight back, always on everything. Not fighting back is just plain stupid.

  134. 134.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Nora: It’s very satisfying to see how Conservatives like Hannity can’t savor Trump’s win and Republican domination of Congress. They’ve been on the defense since last November. I remember our side fully enjoying the Obama years despite all the Republican obstructionism. Those were genuinely good times. I just bought Pete Souza’s book featuring the Obama administration and look forward to going over each photograph and reliving great moments. I doubt Conservatives can say that they are enjoying Trump’s presidency since it has been such a mess and is already under investigation. But that’s what happens when you elect an unqualified egomaniac with no political experience.

  137. 137.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: And I’m saying we can’t fight back on issues on which the party is divided unless we are going to write off that portion of the party.

    ETA:. I mean, should Perez call Elizabeth Warren a liar, because she is and that would be the very next question he would have to answer.

  138. 138.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Chet: Congrats!! Hope you’re able to do some good on that board.

    @TheMightyTrowel: Congrats on your Ozzie citizenship. Must be nice to live in a country where Trump isn’t in power.

  139. 139.

    Elizabelle

    Good morning, jackals.

    Have we heard anything further from efgoldman?

    @TheMightyTrowel: Congratulations on the Aussie citizenship. Can you sponsor us now? We’re good on keeping you in beer and shrimp.

  140. 140.

    dogwood

    @Kay:
    Glad you’re taking care of the water situation. And if it had been a $10,000 dollar job it would have been worth it. My sprinkler system went haywire when I was out of town in July. Basement flooded causing around $20,000 in damages NOT covered by insurance.

  141. 141.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @TS: We’re all a little naive. I never would have thought FOX would allow it for anyone. Just kinda surprised me that if Ailes signed off on it for BillO, he wouldn’t have done it for himself.

  143. 143.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Peale: It made no sense at all.

    In the last week there were 10 polls showing Northam up, 2 showing him tied, and none – none – showing Gillespie ahead.

    to pundits, it’s always sunny in Philadelphia in the gop

  144. 144.

    OzarkHillbilly

    And I’m outa here. See y’all tomorrow, same time, same place, different argument.

  148. 148.

    tobie

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I really have no idea why anyone puts Ruth Marcus on TV. She whines when she talks and she’s a consistent party pooper. Remember when she attacked the junior high school girl who was critical of Sam Brownback in KS? She used column space in the Washington Post to attack a minor for incivility. Yuck.

    I’ve taken three lessons from Tuesday: (1) Brazile and Bernie are history; right wingers may prop them up but their time has passed. (2) we need to compete in every race from local sheriff to US Senator. (3) Frum warned, and I agree, that the GOP will now try turbo-charged voter suppression so the DNC or some organization has to sponsor a nationwide voter registration effort; I’m all ready to spend a week in Milwaukee doing this.

    Lastly, good morning folks and have a great day!

  149. 149.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Lee: a lot of people made contributions and sooner or later it has affects. Plus gasoline is up 21% since last year.

  154. 154.

    Jeffro

    Ye gods: Corker Will Hold Hearing on Trump’s Authority to Use Nuclear Weapons

    Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) wasn’t being hyperbolic when he said he feared the President was leading the U.S. “on the path to World War III,” a remark that escalated the tension between the retiring senator and the President of his party.

    On Wednesday Corker announced that there would be a hearing on Nov. 14 to review President Donald Trump’s authority to use nuclear weapons before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which Corker chairs.

    “A number of members both on and off our committee have raised questions about the authorities of the legislative and executive branches with respect to war making, the use of nuclear weapons, and conducting foreign policy overall,” Corker said in a statement to CNBC News. “This continues a series of hearings to examine those issues and will be the first time since 1976 that this committee or our House counterparts have looked specifically at the authority and process for using U.S. nuclear weapons. This discussion is long overdue, and we look forward to examining this critical issue.”

    The scheduled hearing is a significant leap in tensions between Corker and Trump, whose White House Corker equated to an “adult day care” and a “reality show.” The two began publicly criticizing each other after Corker attacked Trump’s “stability” and “competence” in response to the deadly attack at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in August.

    Ya’ll remember all those hearings Democratic senators were having about Obama’s fitness for office and concerns over his having access to the ‘football’, right? No? Me neither. We’ve gone from ‘unprecedented’ to ‘holy effing shit this is unprecedented’

    The scary thing is, Corker used to be a supporter…but now he’s seen the Beast up close and personal…and this is his response.

    Whenever you’re ready, GOP…

  158. 158.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @OzarkHillbilly: Well what Fox News wants is a False Equivalency Fallacy to keep the narrative going with the believers (the Dems only win by cheating) . The correct response is to dag that out “So you are saying that the Virginian Republican SoS colluded with the Democrats to fix the election against the Republicans, that’s what quite a charge. Do you have proof because it sounds just insane? Did they use the help of a foreign power to hack the election results? I gather you conservatives know a lot about that”

  159. 159.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    The weird thing is, the excerpt I read clearly stated that the DNC did not rig the election. She looked and found nothing it did to favor Hillary. Then she turns around and says Financial Arrangement, so they rigged the election!

    @Patricia Kayden:
    And the weird thing on this subject is that even relatively sane Sanders supporters have told me straight-faces that minorities are Sanders’ constituency and he’s better at civil rights than Hillary. The idea that he insults African Americans regularly by saying stuff like addressing the issues of ‘regular Americans’ will fix minority problems sails right past them.

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Emails are a tedious issue, and Trump’s scandals were juicy and never ending. If emails were a better audience getter, then the playing field is rigged to the point of insanity, just with a different cause.

  160. 160.

    Kay

    @dogwood:

    Water damage is my nightmare. I see pictures of people after floods and my heart goes out to them.

    My water bill was slowly going up- copper apparently gets “pinhole leaks” so it wasn’t apparent what was going on. I’m glad I have a short front lot. They’re so funny how they carefully prop the shrubs they dug up back in their spots. They have no roots left but no one will ever know! :)

  161. 161.

    Ian G.

    @laura:

    Cool. The song he did for “Hell or High Water” (“Outlaw State of Mind”) is fantastic.

    I also wonder about Sturgill Simpson. The first track on his debut album is this hippie-dippy ode to expanding one’s mind with psychedelic drugs. Nothing overtly political about it, but it sure doesn’t seem like it’s meant to appeal to Trump America.

  162. 162.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    My daughter said that during the campaign – she thought the email insanity was boring. She’s not that politically plugged in but she was so funny “ugh- SERVERS- I hear that word and I want to run away”

    Apparently she is quite different than the political team at the NYTimes. AP put THIRTY reporters on it. They cannot fucking tell me that resources and focus don’t matter at all. That’s thirty people who were NOT doing something else.

  163. 163.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    n observation – Trump wouldn’t be doing nearly so bad on a polling basis were it not for the combative tweeting and the reckless hyperbole on routine positive news (as well as obnoxious self promoting claims).

    Yes, but that’s Trump’s dilemina; Trump’s base is a fan base, Trump’s outrageous behavior entertains them. The second Trump’s shuts up acts presidential Trump loses his fan bois and Trump has no real support out of that.

  164. 164.

    dogwood

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Emails are a tedious issue, but since they were in the news daily for 18 months, they left an indelible impression on millions of voters that something very wrong must have happened. With Trump there was something new and awful every day. One outrageous story immediately replaced with something equally outrageous. I would hazard a guess that millions of voters missed many of those stories simply because they were on vacation when they broke, or they just aren’t in the habit of following any election on a daily basis, or watching or reading the news every day.

  166. 166.

    Ian G.

    Well, I guess I can stop wondering about whether Sturgill Simpson is one of us. Lol.

    Why is this rant not considered “populism”, but racist drivel from a New York zillionaire is? Can we reclaim populism from those who hijacked it, please?

  167. 167.

    different-church-lady

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Oh, this is going to be beautiful! First he tricked a bunch of football fans into hating football. Now he’s going to trick country music fans to hating country music!

    Please Mr. Trump, continue to deprive you base of their little pleasures!

  168. 168.

    Baud

    @dogwood:

    Emails are a tedious issue

    That’s why the media invented a melodrama. The story wasn’t about emails. The story was the impending “smoking gun” that was just about to come out that would reveal the TRUTH about Hillary’s felonious ways. They made it into a soap opera.

  169. 169.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    This claim poliitcal media are making doesn’t make any sense. Of course focus and resource allocation matter. If your whole workplace spends 16 months focused on one thing then they are NOT doing something else. If this were true why have managers at all? Everyone can just whomp onto a project and let it shake out. They DO influence coverage. They HAVE TO. They don’t have unlimited resources and time. They MADE DECISIONS. That’s all I’m asking they admit and they refuse.

  170. 170.

    different-church-lady

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    An observation – Trump wouldn’t be doing nearly so bad on a polling basis were it not for the combative tweeting and the reckless hyperbole on routine positive news (as well as obnoxious self promoting claims).

    But that’s how he won* the election in the first place.

  171. 171.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    Have we heard anything further from efgoldman?

    When I talked to mrs efg last week, she said that he had just been transferred from hospital to a rehab center/nursing home for another week or so. If all has gone well he should be going home today or tomorrow and hopefully can start tossing little “fuckem”s around with merry abandon.

  173. 173.

    rikyrah

    @Patricia Kayden:

    @Nora: It’s very satisfying to see how Conservatives like Hannity can’t savor Trump’s win and Republican domination of Congress. They’ve been on the defense since last November. I remember our side fully enjoying the Obama years despite all the Republican obstructionism. Those were genuinely good times. I just bought Pete Souza’s book featuring the Obama administration and look forward to going over each photograph and reliving great moments. I doubt Conservatives can say that they are enjoying Trump’s presidency since it has been such a mess and is already under investigation. But that’s what happens when you elect an unqualified egomaniac with no political experience.

    It’s because they know he’s a fraud, and they thought that WE would go along with it.
    That we haven’t. That we haven’t from the beginning, has upset them.
    No, we WILL NOT treat him with respect.
    He doesn’t deserve it.
    And, neither DO YOU for voting for him.
    And, when they try and pull the usual bullshyt of ‘ respecting the office’, we go and pull the 8 years of receipts that we collected while 44 was President.

  174. 174.

    Kay

    I live in Ohio and John Kasich believes in the same crackpot Right wing economic theories as Brownback, he’s just better at hiding them.

    What I would say to people about this Trump tax plan is it is a fantasy that you don’t have to pay for things! You do! You will! I mean, my God are we really this fucking stupid? All they’re doing is shifting the burden – YOU, personally, will pay for Ivanka Trump’s tax cut. You will pay directly thru state and local taxes or you will pay for private sector services to replace public sector services or you will go WITHOUT. This is the ULTIMATE unicorn and rainbows. It is “free stuff”. That is a LIE.

    Ohio has a billion dollar budget hole and they have stripped the state of value – we are PAYING.

  176. 176.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @dogwood:
    @Kay:
    And my point is, they spent enormous coverage time making up bullshit to slag a Democrat on a boring issue. Evidence is clear now that ‘emails’ defined election coverage. This, while Trump has a mountain of exciting stories of corruption, revenge, mafia ties, sex scandals, ad infinitum. It doesn’t matter WHY, a situation like that demonstrates that the national press is brutally hostile to Democrats.

  177. 177.

    different-church-lady

    @rikyrah:

    It’s because they know he’s a fraud, and they thought that WE would go along with it.

    No, it’s because they live on a diet made exclusively of rage. They can’t enjoy anything but anger.

  178. 178.

    Baud

    Fox News of all places broke this story today.

    Carrier Corp., the HVAC manufacturer that had planned to move its operations to Mexico before President Trump staged a much-heralded intervention, said Tuesday it is gearing up for yet another round of layoffs.
    …..

    Shortly after Trump’s election, Carrier announced that it had reached a deal with the then president-elect to keep approximately 1,070 jobs in Indianapolis for 10 years in exchange for up to $7 million in various incentives.
    ……
    Although Carrier employees appeared elated in widely circulated photographs after Trump struck the deal with the company, the mood in Indianapolis has apparently soured as layoffs continue.

    “Trump came in there to the factory last December and blew smoke up our a—s,” Brenda Darlene Battle, a longtime Carrier employee, told The New Yorker. “He wasn’t gonna save those jobs.”

  179. 179.

    laura

    @Ian G.: Sturgil Simpson played at Hardly, Strictly Bluegrass again this year. Also, too, Steve Earle is a yearly attendee and (be still my foolish heart) Billy Bragg showed up. I’m going out on a limb, but it sure seems that musicians are increasingly not making nice and standing proudly on the side of progressive decency and community.

  182. 182.

    rikyrah

    Imagine what we could do with a Democratic-controlled House, and then help make it real. RT and tell us #WhyTheHouse matters to you. pic.twitter.com/vEqSYBhPRP

    — Swing Left (@swingleft) November 8, 2017

  183. 183.

    Sab

    @Kay: In NE Ohio our city just passed an increase in the city income tax. It won in every single precinct!

    We had a cop get hospitalized last weekend from carbon monoxide poisoning from sitting in his run-down cruiser. I don’t know about the rest of the state but around here people seem to know Kasich and the clowns in Columbus are responsible for our local budget shortfalls.

  185. 185.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Baud:

    “Trump came in there to the factory last December and blew smoke up our a—s,” Brenda Darlene Battle, a longtime Carrier employee, told The New Yorker. “He wasn’t gonna save those jobs.”

    This is my shocked face.

  187. 187.

    rikyrah

    DEAR ALABAMA #Resistance
    If you’ve been purged from AL voter rolls, make sure to re-register to vote by Monday 27 Nov to vote in the December 12 election!

    — campylobacter ? (@campyWHY) November 8, 2017

    On 12/12, Alabama will vote to fill Jeff Sessions’s Senate seat either with racist Roy Moore or Doug Jones, who prosecuted the KKK. Show up.

    — Samuel Sinyangwe (@samswey) November 8, 2017

  188. 188.

    rikyrah

    Virginia is a blue state now for two reasons: 1.) mass immigration (legal & illegal) and 2.) massive, growing dependence on Big Gov’t.

    — Laura Ingraham (@IngrahamAngle) November 8, 2017

    I think it’s fair to say because the people of VA decided they didn’t want to embrace racism and ugly bigotry. But bless your heart anyway. https://t.co/F7GPZBvVG6

    — Soledad O’Brien (@soledadobrien) November 8, 2017

  189. 189.

    rikyrah

    Maine’s speaker of the House is not messing around: pic.twitter.com/i9qB3ov9mD

    — Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) November 8, 2017

    Democrats are not going to let Gov. LePage take health care away from 80,000 Mainers. Here’s a statement from @mainesenatedems’ leader, Sen. Troy Jackson. #mepolitics pic.twitter.com/Hiq6zhJrft

    — Mario Moretto (@riocarmine) November 8, 2017

  190. 190.

    rikyrah

    Want to see something amazing?

    Watch Rosa, the 10-year-old girl ICE detained after surgery, reuniting with her family. Beautiful. pic.twitter.com/eW1KFOHVfA

    — Scott Dworkin (@funder) November 9, 2017

  191. 191.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:

    AP put THIRTY reporters on it.

    I read a few weeks ago it was twenty reporters. Now it’s thirty? Can you (or anyone else) please share a link to this information? I’ve looked and can’t seem to google good enough. Thank you!

  192. 192.

    rikyrah

    Republicans can only afford to lose 23 seats in the House next year and retain the majority.

    23 Republicans sit in seats that Clinton defeated Trump in last year, another 13 previously backed Obama.https://t.co/VtW3fw2Zvf

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 9, 2017

  193. 193.

    rikyrah

    Not just Putin’s family, but China too?

    The shipping company that Wilbur Ross has a stake in may have benefited from an important trade agreement with China that he led as Commerce Secretary, raising ethics concerns.https://t.co/vZ2vvtzMXh

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 9, 2017

  195. 195.

    rikyrah

    uh uh uh

    A cry for help from the wreckage: 60 percent of career ambassadors have left @StateDept since January. And applicants to join foreign service have been cut in half https://t.co/k4qLEg6XYp

    — Samantha Power (@SamanthaJPower) November 8, 2017

  196. 196.

    rikyrah

    The Real Democratic Base

    Here’s how much real Democratic candidates don’t need Trump voters.
    Why did Ralph Northam win Virginia’s gubernatorial last night by nearly ten points? Black, Asian, and Latin voters, and especially black women.

    The lesson is when black voters show up, Democrats win and win BIG. We know this. What I don’t know why we’re trying to worry about winning back white men who voted for Republicans by a 27 point margin. Get more black votes out. Fight voter suppression. Jesus, it’s not multi-variable calculus, guys.

    Republicans know this lesson well and have been trying to disenfranchise black voters for decades exactly because they know black voters win election for Dems because we vote for Dems. Duh.

    Why some Democrats still yet don’t understand this, I’ll never know.

  197. 197.

    Immanentize

    @rikyrah: This is completely true:
    — In big cities
    — In many (but not all) states in statewide elections
    — In some rural areas which have been heavily gerrymandered “Democratic.”

    But I hope Democrats, even conserva-Dems, fight for wins in all/mostly white suburbs, rural districts and states. Every election is not national.

    Today I heard Tim Kaine (maybe?) Say Dems need to just stick to “a good job for all, good education for every child and healthcare for everyone.” That is a great basic list of what unites us (I would add social security). If candidates can just agree to say this first, then the local/state/national issues can be added.

  198. 198.

    rikyrah

    Virginia Governor’s Race Isn’t Just About the Candidates
    Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon aren’t running, but they’re shadow-campaigning.
    By Albert R. Hunt
    October 29, 2017, 9:00 AM CDT

    Senator Bernie Sanders, the Vermont socialist, and Steve Bannon, the nationalist provocateur, are playing roles in the most important election this year, the Virginia governor’s race.

    Sanders, who gained his national following by running for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, has refused to endorse the Democratic candidate, Ralph Northam, a mainstream progressive. This signals the left-winger’s determination to set ideological litmus tests for Democrats.

    Bannon, the former top strategist for President Donald Trump, is on a mission to destroy the Republican Party establishment. In Virginia, he’s helped pressure Republican Ed Gillespie, a quintessential establishment figure, to embrace immigrant-bashing and race-baiting.

    The significance of the Nov. 7 contest extends beyond the state’s borders. A Northam victory would be welcomed by Obama-Clinton Democrats and would diminish Trump, a frequent target of the Democrat’s speeches and commercials.

    ……………………….
    Democratic strategists hope that disdain for Trump will matter more to Virginia liberals than the Sanders snub. But they worry about the national effect of a rule-or-ruin Sanders strategy of insisting that Democratic candidates next year and in 2020 toe his line or face opposition from his energetic base.

  199. 199.

    oldgold

    Trump is being played like a fiddle by China.

    The President and the first lady emerged from their limousine to an elaborate show of flattery, with horn players heralding Trump’s arrival for a day of extended talks with his Chinese counterpart.

    Trump and Xi surveyed Chinese military bands from a canopied platform and greeted cheering schoolchildren, who waved colored pom-poms as the President strode past.

    Trump’s tweets make it apparent he is lapping it up.

    On behalf of @FLOTUS Melania and I, THANK YOU for an unforgettable afternoon and evening at the Forbidden City in Beijing, President Xi and Madame Peng Liyuan. We are looking forward to rejoining you tomorrow morning.

    President Xi, thank you for such an incredible welcome ceremony. It was a truly memorable and impressive display!

  200. 200.

    different-church-lady

    @rikyrah: The goal should be: try to win some of the white men while NOT downgrading any other part of the coalition.

    Yeah, I know, easier said than done. But the point I’m making is that for a year now the faux-progressives have been telling us we gotta jettison “identity politics” (their code for ‘anything that is not about white people’s anger’) and ignore the base because nobody matters except the white working class oh and I’m not a racist I just know how these people think. And they’re full of shit. But that doesn’t mean some white men aren’t winnable, just as long as it’s not a trade-off. Because white men are NEVER going to go democratic en masse unless we sell our souls.

  203. 203.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @rikyrah:

    Why some Democrats still yet don’t understand this, I’ll never know

    Because a portion of OUR electorate is throwing a screaming tantrum and has declared, with some evidence, that they will sit out voting if Democrats so much as mention racism. Personally, I think that’s disgusting and we should not compromise with that kind of immoral hostage taking. Also, the people who throw out ‘Republican-lite’ are the Republican-lites. There aren’t a lot of them, but there’s enough, and they’re direct enough in their hostage taking, to scare party officials.

  204. 204.

    rikyrah

    Richard W. Painter‏ @RWPUSA
    6h6 hours ago

    Use of antitrust enforcement power to punish CNN for exercise of First Amendment rights is an impeachable offense. The time is now.

  205. 205.

    D58826

    So Der Fuhrer hasn’t said anything outrageously stupid on the trip so far. Operative word being outrageous. But given his comments in China a simple question. Is he President of the United States or president of the President Xi Jinping PR company?

    lavished praise on China for the very trade practices he once lambasted as unfair during a remarkable morning session in Beijing.

    Emerging after two hours of talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping, Trump said he doesn’t fault China for taking advantage of differences between the way the two countries do business.
    “I don’t blame China,” Trump said during remarks to business leaders inside the Great Hall of the People. “After all, who can blame a country for being able to take advantage of another country for benefit of their citizens? I give China great credit.”

    He is getting played like a cheap fiddle

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-i-dont-blame-china-for-taking-advantage-of-us-on-trade/ar-BBEKBZv?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

  206. 206.

    rikyrah

    Is there a reason why Tom Perriello can’t run for his old seat in Congress?
    Who do the Dems have running in that Congressional District?

  215. 215.

    dogwood

    @rikyrah:
    There’s no reason he can’t run, but I believe it’s a fairly rural red district that he won narrowly in the 2008 democratic wave. Here in Idaho district 1, a Democrat also won that year then was ousted in ‘10. Lots of dems won in unlikely places in ‘06 as well, but W wasn’t so beloved in the party by that time. Trump and Trumpism are still plying well in these rural districts. Hope Perriello, or some equally good takes the challenge, but it won’t be an easy lift.

  217. 217.

    FlipYrWhig

    @dogwood: Yeah, Perriello’s old district was won by the R’s by 16% in ’16, 25% in ’14, 12% in ’12. The last time Perriello ran was ’10 and he lost by 4%. Perhaps non-Perriello Dems are hapless there, or maybe Perriello was a fluke in the first place. Or maybe things will have shifted recently, because it’s the district that includes Charlottesville…

  218. 218.

    StringOnAStick

    @Lee: An old friend took over his dad’s veterinary practice decades ago (blue color Detroit). He knew the economy was cratering in 2007 before the rest of us did in 2008. Veterinary practices are apparently one place where economic weaknesses show up early in the downturn.

  220. 220.

    J R in WV

    @Kay:

    Three or four years age we did a long weekend car trip to visit “Indian Mounds”, the ancient earthworks of the Ohio valley, and learned that Ohio state parks had mostly been given to local county orgs, to take upkeep off the state budget.

    If a state won’t pay for them, it can’t have state parks. Or good roads, or proper policing, or, or or…. And that’s what taxes are for. Good roads, good schools, good hospitals, parks, it’s a long list of things taxes pay for because civilization needs those things to flourish.

    Republicans don’t seem to care about that, though.

    ETAdd: When a single volunteer is in charge of a historical museum at a park, you would be shocked to learn that there is no real difference between the kitsch for sale and actual exhibit material, and no one will ever know how much of what was sold and where that sales money went!!!

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