This is driving me insane:
Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has questioned Sam Clovis, co-chairman of President Donald Trump’s election campaign, to determine if Trump or top aides knew of the extent of the campaign team’s contacts with Russia, two sources familiar with the investigation said on Friday.
The focus of the questions put to Clovis by Mueller’s team has not been previously reported.
“The ultimate question Mueller is after is whether candidate Trump and then President-elect Trump knew of the discussions going on with Russia, and who approved or even directed them,” said one source. “That is still just a question.”
Clovis testified in late October before the grand jury in Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. He is also cooperating with the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating the same issues.
FFS, they are not trying to figure out if Trump knew, because of course he fucking did. Trump is an addle-brained narcissist who surrounds himself with yes-men and suckups. He’s the living embodiment of every movie scene of a boardroom where a boss looks around the table asking his employees “what do you have for me.” And you know damned well that every damned member of his team was climbing all over each other to be the one with the juiciest tibit of news that will flatter “teh Donald” and ingratiate themselves.
Papadopoulos is apparently upset because his blind loyalty to Trump is not being returned (I didn’t say these guys were smart, I said they were suckups), and the perfect example of everyone of these guys. Have you forgotten about Scaramucci? So all these guys were blurting this shit out, leaving folks like Session, who knew what they were doing was illegal, having to say things like “I don’t remember/I don’t recall/I don’t know” like an evil Rainman who still manages to perjure himself.
So OF FUCKING COURSE Trump, Pence, Jared, and the whole god damned lot of them knew. What Mueller is trying to do is to prove it.
WereBear
This is why I maintained at the beginning that if we do get President Pence, it won’t be for long, because every single one of them are up to their necks in this.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
The election was stolen.
Another Scott
Mueller knows it. And most likely already has proof.
He, like any good prosecutor, is asking people questions that he already knows the answers to. If a person denies the truth, they tighten the noose around themselves. If they confirm the truth, then Mueller knows that he has someone who can potentially be used as a credible witness.
As Adam reminds us, it’s a slow process. Don’t let it drive you nuts. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Regnad Kcin
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: 2 outta 5 now, that’s a decent batting average sez Teddy Ballgame
p.a.
Begging the question, what if you commit treason, and 40% of the electorate doesn’t care*?
*or thinks the overwhelming evidence is all fraudulent.
MattF
@Another Scott: Right– the first rule of cross-examination is ‘never ask a question you don’t know the answer to’. One assumes that Mueller and his crew are doing a lot of that.
aimai
You are so upset this post is full of typos. Frankly, this throws into relief the fact that you are the iron woman of posters because after last november’s loss I think I typed mostly gibberish for weeks. You usually don’t have any typos in your posts. My hat is off to you.
Also, in re “for fuck’s sake of course he knew” if he didn’t he should be impeached for that alone. If you are going to sit in the big boy chair, in the big boy office, you can’t plead “nobody told me and I don’t know anything. Unless you are reagan, of course.
cokane
good post but good lord do some copy editing
mai naem mobile
Ohhhh I only hire the best. Yeach you mothetfucker you hire the best for Russia you asshole piece of shit traitor
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: When did Cole become a woman? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Llelldorin
If 40% of the electorate is willing to wave off child abuse, why on earth would a bit of treason bother them?
JPL
They need their tax cuts.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t act like you did not see this coming.
Corner Stone
@mai naem mobile: I’m getting a certain vibe here…
burnspbesq
I’m curious as to what Trump’s cut of the $15 million that Turkey was supposedly ready to pay Flynn in exchange for rendering Gulen (legally or illegally, the Turks didn’t care) was supposed to be.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Happy Vets day LT.
WereBear
@Another Scott: I’m cool with the mills of the gods grinding slow… and exceedingly fine :)
bluefish
That’s right.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Back atcha.
MattF
@burnspbesq: I suppose the actual negotiations were back in the summer of 2016. Corey Lewandowski would know.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Another Scott:
I hope you are correct, Scott. I suspect you are. It gives me comfort.
ET
For the life of me I cannot fathom why any of the people in tRump’s orbit think loyalty is a two way street with him. If I can see this from the sidelines, it should be obvious this was the case even without recent examples.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@p.a.: Then that 40% have no place in our society. They can move to Russia.
Baud
@ET: Everyone likes to think they’re special.
chopper
he spelled Yale with a “6”.
NotMax
Getting to the point where it appears fewer Russians were going in and out the Russian embassy than were doing the same at the Dolt 45 campaign.
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Susan Sarandon regrets nothing!
hellslittlestangel
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, as long as the VA didn’t pay for the work.
Adam L Silverman
@WereBear: The two questions regarding the Vice President are:
1) Why did Manafort want him on the ticket so badly?
2) What are in the VP’s emails from his time as governor of Indiana that he is trying to keep from ever seeing the light of day?
coin operated
@Another Scott:
Yup. When I studied to be an EMT, our first class wasn’t about first aid…it was about dealing with litigation. First words out of my instructor’s mouth…”A good lawyer never, ever asks a question he doesn’t already have the answer to”.
Mueller is nobody’s fool and I’ve enjoyed the way he’s gone about this investigation so far. Turning Papadopolous completely under the radar was a masterful stroke.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@raven: Happy Day to you and Omnes, and VDE, Cole, Soonergrunt, Ruckus, as well as all the Juicers whom I’ve forgotten were once in uniform.
Baud
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Ditto.
Steve in the ATL
@coin operated:
In court. At other times, we ask many such questions.
lgerard
One of Roy’s former coworkers weighs in
Steve in the ATL
@chopper:
Which is fine, as long as he spelled Harvard with a 5
/tribute to my late father
CaseyL
This is reminiscent of the Philby scandal in the UK, when the USSR had entirely penetrated the upper levels of British Intelligence. Only it’s even worse than that, because Russia has entirely penetrated the upper levels of the US government.
I’ve seen reports that Trump may have been a Russian “agent of influence” since the mid-1980s or early 1990s. Trump is also the person who pushed the Birther narrative out of the RW fever swamps into the MSM. So now I wonder if that was also a Russian op.
FFS, I’m starting to sound like a conspiracy nut. I hate this.
MomSense
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Co-signed.
Adam L Silverman
@lgerard: Floriduh Woman for the win!
The Dangerman
@Adam L Silverman:
Impeachment insurance; no one wants that person as President (see Quayle, Dan).
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: “What is that beautiful house?” “Where does that highway go to?” “Am I right, am I wrong?” “My God! What have I done?”
Adam L Silverman
@CaseyL: VENONA on steroids.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: precisely!
And since I know you’re a huge fan of Buck Owens-style rockabilly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HBGn-jw3EM
MomSense
On a related topic perhaps, I was listening to The Professional Left Podcast and they said that they checked out Fox on Tuesday night after the election results were in. I’m not going to link to it but the segment is called Exposed: The lies journalists tell in the Brazile scandal.
The proleft people consider him to not be on team Democratic Party even though sometimes our interests have aligned.
My feeling has always been that he is a ratfvcker and clearly he has been carrying a lot of water for the Russians of late. I admit to wondering what we might learn as the investigation into Russian interference progresses.
Adam L Silverman
@The Dangerman: No, there were other options for that.
coin operated
@Steve in the ATL: I was going to edit my comment to reflect that, but knew one of the legal beagles would be along shortly….
cthulhu
@Adam L Silverman:
This! Though the case could be made they wanted a “true” conservative to balance out the ticket and/or someone who wouldn’t be likely to get in Trump’s way, there were other reasonable alternatives. As far as I can tell, Manafort had no professional relationship with Pence previously but sure seemed awfully convinced he would be perfect VP despite his low charisma and not exactly stellar track record in an executive branch position.
I assume there is a fair amount of standard corruption he is trying to hide in this case but one never knows. The Russians have been making use of some American politicians like Rorhabacher for some time.
Baud
@MomSense: Who is him?
WereBear
@Adam L Silverman: Very intriguing questions, yes. At the time, I figured Pence was to lock in the Evangelical vote… but they were thrilled to embrace Trump.
I am sure those two questions are connected :)
mike in dc
@Adam L Silverman: After this is done, we’re going to spend the next 30 years destroying Russia.
Baud
@mike in dc: I shall be know as President Baud! The Avenger!
chris
@Adam L Silverman: VENONA? Thanks, I learn something new here every day.
MomSense
@Baud:
Oops, GG
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud:
Fuckin’ antecedents, how do they work?
Mike in Pasadena
@Baud: Bernie??
Baud
@MomSense: Oh Lord. He’s clearly not on Team D. The proleft people have a taste for the obvious.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
Fixed.
debbie
@burnspbesq:
That kind of disregard for the law should mandate Flynn’s expulsion from America.
Retr2327
@burnspbesq: exactly. Think Goodfellas: no crime goes down without the boss getting his cut.
Also too: asking Comey to go easy on Flynn makes a lot more sense if Trump knew about this Turkey affair.
gene108
@p.a.:
We will break as a country. I do not mean another civil war, but the Federal institutions we have require some level of cooperation between the Party in power and the one out of power to function.
Whatever hope of having a functioning Federal government being re-established will be shot to hell, if Republican voters no longer care, if their politicians break the law, as long as they are not Democrats.
This will give the green light to any Republican politician to do whatever they want, with no fear of retribution.
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
I’d also like to know why he supported Flynn even after being warned by Yates and others.
I also seem to remember that documents were taken out of the SCIF at a trump tower nat sec briefing during the transition.
Adam L Silverman
@mike in dc: It took almost 40 years to finish winding up VENONA. Destroyed our best spy hunter in the process. He got lost in the wilderness of mirrors, which is ironic given that he gave that territory that iconic name.
debbie
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Yes. Glad they all made it back.
MomSense
@Baud:
Right but do you think his interests are even aligned at times?
Cheryl Rofer
Looks like this is what Putin got out of Trump today. Total capture for Russia’s solution in Syria.
scott (the other one)
I feel like it’s worth repeating: of course Trump knew. But the question remains whether or not he knew it was illegal. I can absolutely fully buy he had no idea it was illegal. He would have done it all anyway, of course, even if Putin didn’t have him by the balls. (Which he did and does even more so now.)
I just want to slap so many of my fellow middle-aged white American males and ask them what the fuck is wrong with them, supporting a guy who hates nearly half of their fellow citizens but fucking loves authoritarian strongmen from other countries. What in the fuck ever happened to patriotism?
Adam L Silverman
@MomSense: He’s very certain in his convictions, but none too bright.
Baud
@MomSense
Hard to know what his interests lie. He has advocated for things I could support. But I would never trust him enough to consider him an ally on anything.
mike in dc
@Adam L Silverman: So we should relish the opportunity to put the Russians through what we went through. ;)
Just One More Canuck
@Steve in the ATL: “What the hell were you thinking?”
Gelfling 545
It’s going to be hard to arrive at a determination of what it means for Trump to know something, anything really. He “knows” any number of things that are outright delusions or fabrications. He “knows” any number of things that are mutually contradictory. He “knows” one thing now and its opposite tomorrow. We will probably have to settle for the notion that he was informed and should have known. As for what actually goes on under the deceased opossum on his head, who can say?
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: No argument on the overall meaning, but I’ve read a lot of official statements and have seen few that said as little as this one does.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
Au contraire, my friend.
Tokyokie
@scott (the other one): For most of them, patriotism is indistinguishable from maintenance of white privilege.
ET
@MomSense: Why did he continue to support Flynn? Because tRump never makes a mistake. His judgement is perfect. He is never wrong.
Adam L Silverman
@mike in dc: I would, but doubt it will happen. Our counterintelligence capabilities are no where near their peak capabilities and capacities during the Cold War. And it is very, very hard to subvert an undemocratic election of a tyrant who has no intention of ever giving up power except on his own terms. Even if we had a national command authority that recognized the need for strong, certain pushback.
Aleta
Barack Obama
* Personal correspondence, email
(Carter Page Style Guide)
Gelfling 545
@ET: It’s a bit like marrying the person who cheated on their spouse with you. It’s always going to be different because, well, just because.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Adam L Silverman: I was thinking the same thing. Which suggests I’m perhaps reading a bit too much Schindler (that asshole). But people I respect tell me he knows of what he speaks.
O. Felix Culpa
Another application of the glaringly obvious: Stupid is as stupid does.
SFAW
@Steve in the ATL:
This monkey’s gone to college?
Adam L Silverman
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: It’s not that you’ve been reading too much Schindler. Nor is it that he’s right on this issue – he is. It is because VENONA is the best, closest comparison to be made.
mike in dc
@Adam L Silverman: @Adam L Silverman: @Adam L Silverman:
Don’t these oligarchs have a lot of money in non-Russian banks? Can we go after their money? It seems to me the best we can do to destabilize Putin is to make it harmful to the interests of the oligarchs for him to remain in power.
Frankensteinbeck
EDIT –
Watch this carefully. It’s our tell about whether Trump’s ‘pardon everyone to protect himself’ or ‘throw everybody under the bus to protect himself’ instincts will win out.
@p.a.:
They care. They have a completely different view of who the enemy is, and thus what counts as treason.
@Llelldorin:
This applies here as well. Totally different value system. They were never against child abuse as we define it, because they see children as property. To a lot of them, Moore did nothing wrong. To the rest, he merely did something embarrassing.
@Cheryl Rofer:
I don’t know about you, but I assumed this from the get-go. I’m surprised it took this long to make it official. The only reason the sanctions are still in place is because congress gave Trump the middle finger and forcibly enshrined them in law.
Gin & Tonic
@mike in dc: Russia is destroying itself without our help. Generally accepted estimates are that its population will drop by 20% by 2050. Russia’s own Minister of the Economy estimates that they are losing 800,000 working-age people every year. Life expectancy at birth is about a decade lower than in the Euro area. Male life expectancy is in the bottom 25% of the world’s nations. Villages and small cities are vanishing as people move out. In its current form, it is demographically unsustainable.
MJS
@scott (the other one): He knew it was illegal. Otherwise he would have been more explicit in bragging about it. He is incapable of keeping his mouth shut.
Gelfling 545
@MomSense: I’ve always assumed that it was, in large part at least, “you’re not the boss of me!”
satby
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: seconded. Happy Veterans Day, all you vets. And to my son the Marine too.
Adam L Silverman
@mike in dc: They do. We’ve inflicted a lot of pain through the post taking of Crimea sanctions. However, a lot of this money is hidden in places with opaque, at best, banking and investment rules. And a lot of it has been laundered clean in London and New York and Miami and San Francisco and LA and Athens and Rome and Paris and Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, etc, etc, etc. This is why Mueller’s has several dedicated financial crime experts on it and is also leveraging the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) specialists at the Department of the Treasury.
Frankensteinbeck
@Gin & Tonic:
I would like my hearsay confirmed by knowledgeable sources. Isn’t the Russian economy a clusterfuck that Putin is doing nothing to fix?
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Cool cover.
Gin & Tonic
@Frankensteinbeck: It has improved somewhat last year and this year.
debbie
The puppet’s jr. Puppet Master may not be as sly as he thinks.
mike in dc
I think accelerating the transition away from fossil fuels would also accelerate the decline of the Putin regime. Without money, they can’t maintain or update their military arsenal. A collapsing economy stirs up existing civil unrest, and sooner or later the dam bursts.
Aleta
It would be awfully rude if instead they wrote: “Mueller’s team has questioned Sam Clovis in order to force him to perjure himself with lies that imply serious violations of the law, unless he admits to acting in ignorance at the direction of Trump, Pence and Kushner.”
Gvg
The only quibble I have with considering Trump an agent rather than a useful fool is his lack of brains and self control. He can’t shut up about anything. He can’t be told anything that actually needs to stay secret. That means he is less useful than a worse case scenario and Russia hasn!’t got the most use out of him. Agent of chaos yes. Actual deep secrets to the Russians, or treaties that get passed, sanctions removed…not so much.
I also think it’s possible he doesn’t all the petty grifting each appointee gets up to. He doesn’t strike me as the most competent boss. He is greedy but not actually that aware.
We need to get rid of him of course.
aimai
@Omnes Omnibus: thought it was betty!
Brachiator
@mike in dc:
Russia has a shit ton of natural gas and other resources. Ironically, climate change might make some areas of Russia more accessible to development.
Also, Putin personally has billions stashed away. He’s not worried.
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: This is hardly surprising, is it?
After Vlad rescued Assad starting September 2015, and made it clear that he would not let Assad be defeated, wasn’t it clear that there was little the US could do to impose it’s view of a sensible solution on Syria? Vlad was going to keep his “warm water port”, and more, and we (sensibly) weren’t willing to say no.
Let Vlad experience, yet again, the wonders of trying to impose a government on a population that has shown a determined willingness to resist (see, Chechnya).
:-(
Obama was right not to get more involved than he did. It’s a no-win situation (especially now that Saudi Arabia seems to be declaring war on Lebanon).
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
@raven:
It’s actually Armistice Day, in honor of the ending of the Great War to end all war. The 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month on 1918. More fighting men were killed quicker in WW I battles than in any other war, I think.
A generation of Frenchmen and British men were killed off, and they were the best, smartest, bravest, leaving behind shopkeepers and bankers who never left home.
Armistice Day is a day to celebrate peace and mourn the dead. It isn’t about guys serving today, we have lots of days for that. My wife reads history, lots of it. She lectures people all day on November 11th, has for years. When did they try to change the name and focus, anyway?
In any case, Fuck Richard Nixon, and LBJ, and Trump, who hasn’t had a chance to do so much damage to our military, yet. The rest of the government, sure, total disaster. But the military is still more or less intact, thank goodness.
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: So I guessed. It was a slow hanging curve ball, so I had to take a swing at it.
raven
@J R in WV: You are not seriously going to explain what today is to me are you?
Frankensteinbeck
@Gvg:
He’s decent, presumably due to long practice, at keeping his mouth shut about his grifts. All it really takes is for him to not say why he and his buddy Vlad have agreed that [Insert Russian Policy Here] is the bestest thing to do ever. Throw in his constant reminders that there was collusion by claiming that there was no collusion, and here we are. He’s not like a KGB agent or anything. He’s just an asshole who’s been bought/blackmailed/both. Probably both, since he whines so much about neither being true.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV:
June 1, 1954. They didn’t try; they did it.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Gvg:
As I recall, on his first day in office, he made several international calls which were recorded. Then he turned off the recorder, phoned Putin, and shortly afterward a number of high-ranking Russians were arrested for espionage.
Of the daily outrages that have kept me in a constant state of simmering rage, that one burns bright.
Putin can ask him ANYTHING Russian intelligence wants to know, and Trump will get it for him. I sincerely doubt he has not handed over some of our most sensitive secrets. Though I have no proof, I believe anything Trump was briefed on the Top Secret nuclear policies and procedures of the US which he remembered, would have been shortly after revealed to Putin just for the hell of it, just friendly chat.
His memory, lack of interest, and lack of understanding might have garbled some of those secrets slightly. But at best only slightly.
James E. Powell
@gene108:
Haven’t Republican voters already done that? They approved of the unprecedented obstruction for all eight years of Obama. They nominated Trump and still support him. The “Satan over any Democrat” remarks out of Alabama reflect the same mindset I heard from well-off, suburban, college-educated Republicans in the summer of 2016. They were upset about “grab ’em by the p-ssy” at first, but only because they thought it meant he would lose! Once it became clear that the press/media were giving him a pass on it, they regained their enthusiasm.
They are hateful bigots who do not care what happens to the social, political, and economic conglomeration known as the United States of America. They want the people they hate to suffer and they will throw away anything for to get that.
Aleta
@debbie: What a bunch of mean to the bone, vindictive, mediocre brained criminals in bland face jobs and dismal clothing; this fucking family. I would rather have an infestation of actual weasels scrabbling through the WH walls and making nests of its shredded upholstery than even think about those humans occupying a single room.
James E. Powell
Being tossed into moderation makes me feel like a dumbass. Is there a list of prohibited words somewhere?
Doug R
@p.a.: More like 33%, and that’s pretty close to the 27% crazy factor.
MORE of US than them.
raven
Tom
A little off the thread, but because it’s Veterans Day. In the Epilogue to The Guns at Last Light, Rick Atkinson quotes from a speech General Eisenhower gave in June 1945 at London’s
Guildhall: “Humility must always be the portion of any man who receives acclaim earned in the blood of his followers and the sacrifices of his friends.” For Pvt. Robert Oglesbee, my father’s best friend, who died in the Battle of the Bulge, and everyone else who didn’t make it home.
Another Scott
@James E. Powell: I think Adam was able to edit the Dungeon Words List a while ago, but, no, I don’t think mere mortals can see it.
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Tom: Great sentiment but Veterans Day is for the living, Memorial Day is for the dead.
Brachiator
@J R in WV:
The Great War seems almost forgotten in the US. There are Remembrance Day ceremonies in the UK and France. Big Ben chimed as people observed a minute of silence.
UK based history magazines have devoted issues to each year of the war, often exploring new areas.
HeleninEire
@MomSense: Me too.
Adam L Silverman
@James E. Powell: I freed it. I have no idea what caused it to go in moderation.
raven
@Brachiator: Ya think it has anything to do with the fact that we had 116,700 dead out of 41 million?
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: WWI did not have the same effect on the US that it did on the European countries.
Steve in the ATL
@Brachiator:
With apologies to raven (Go Dawgs!), fuck Woodrow Wilson. And his hometown of Staunton, which was recently named the most boring city in Virginia.
Origuy
@Omnes Omnibus: We got into the war late and it took a long time to train up men before they went overseas. There were a lot of soldiers still in training or in ships going across the Atlantic when the war ended.
raven
@Origuy: And all those 4 pipers!
Adam L Silverman
HeleninEire
Someone last thread ( please identify yourself, can’t remember)said and I am paraphrasing “Well of course Putin denied it. Do you think he’s gonna say “Yeah, we beat that bitch.”
You know what? If they met that is exactly what Putin said. And those stupid boys laughed and laughed.
Cuz of course they did.
Aleta
@J R in WV: After that, I thought it used to be a day dedicated to veterans of foreign wars.
My once radical colleague says had an idea (back in the 90s I think) that his fellow veterans of the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War should also be recognized in his town for work to end it. (Not on Veteran’s Day of course.) But to speak about their beatings, arrests, process of applying for CO status.
(He also jokingly said they should march down the town’s main street in their surplus store jeans, homemade patches, leather hats.)
MattF
@Adam L Silverman: I guess I just have to keep saying this: Trump is indifferent to the truth. Yeah, he’s lying and no, it’s not news. People: get serious.
Adam L Silverman
Lookie lookie!
FlyingToaster
At this point, I think we have achieved boilerplate:
Here’s their testimony to Mueller et.al.
And in the original German…
Doug R
@mike in dc: Well, deconstructing so we can help rebuild like a Marshall plan.
Omnes Omnibus
@Origuy: I know.
Doug R
@gene108: Were you not paying attention on Tuesday night? Voters will kick the bums out when they’ve had enough, as long as they are allowed to vote. That’s why Obama and Holder spent so much energy fighting for voting rights, that’s what they’re concentrating on now.
Calouste
@Omnes Omnibus: About half the French men of military age were killed or wounded in WWI, 6 million out of a pre war population of about 40 million.
Brachiator
@Origuy:
There are also some great political cartoons expressing gratitude that the Tanks were entering the war.
And there is George M Cohan’s 1917 song,
Over there, over there
Send the word, send the word over there
That the Yanks are coming
The Yanks are coming…
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: I know.
Dmbeaster
@aimai: “nobody told me and I don’t know anything. Unless you are reagan, of course.”
I think you had to have had at least three years of dementia in office to use that defense.
debbie
@Calouste:
Take a look at this book. Towards the end, there’s an aerial shot of the ground. It looks like an orange peel, fully pock-marked. Each tiny dent is (I think) a crater a few yards wide. And the entire continent looked like that. How anyone survived is beyond me.
Brachiator
@raven:
WW2 vet Raymod Weeks proposed expanding Veterans Day to honor all veterans in 1945. A bill establishing National Veterans Day was signed into law in 1954, following years of unofficial observance.
A bit of trivia about the Great War.
J R in WV
@MomSense:
Brazile is a black woman. Not that her gender or race prevents her from being cornered into doing what someone wishes her to do! It’s so confusing, I’m nearly a pro level politics junkie since Nixon’s Saturday Night massacre, and I still get confused, which is a successful part of their diabolical plot!!!
J R in WV
@raven:
No, of course not, not to you. That would be unnecessary and stupid. But lots of younger folks don’t remember WW I at all. So I took a swing at it.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
In Europe an entire generation of young (and not so young) men were obliterated. Then they had to do it all over again in 1938 – just 20 years later, while everyone remembered the horror of losing so many loved ones. Why pacifists were suddenly so popular in politics in Europe.
Uncle Cosmo
@raven: Late to the topic, but happy birthday you old reprobate. (I’ll be your age later this month.) Fuck LBJ – for letting himself get snookered into the Vietnam mess – with all his domestic-policy accomplishments, all he had to do was keep us out of that Asian quagmire to (IMO) go down as one of the truly great Presidents.
BTW, you share Armistice Day as a birthdate with someone who is much on my mind today: my revered geometry & trig teacher, faculty advisor to the HS chess club, who became my Dutch uncle, intellectual father-figure, partner in thoughtcrime & ultimately one of my very closest friends until his death the day before the 2000 election. He would have been 87 today. RIP, Marinus.
Uncle Cosmo
@Adam L Silverman: I strongly suspect that a major fraction of Mueller’s current efforts are directed toward Pence, to establish whether he’s dirty enough to warrant action to remove him from the line of succession a la Agnew (who, we recall, agreed to resign the office of VPOTUS in exchange for being allowed to plead nolo contendere to charges of accepting bribes) before going after the Big Kahuna.
My bumpersticker-of-desire for the moment is IMPEACH PENSE FIRST!
Uncle Cosmo
@Uncle Cosmo: Um….PENCE…. :^/
No One You Know
@cthulhu: Because he’d be easy to manipulate and likely not too interested in anything other than creating a pseudoChristian theocracy? And not going to compete in any way with an utterly unqualified and incompetent boss?
IDK, I’m just spitballing.
No One You Know
@WereBear: Glad to see you!(Maybe you were just on threads I skipped.)