Dumb thing #1: “we must understand and convince hard core Trump voters”. The latest example of this is a Politico piece that found some of the dumbest and saddest Trump voters in Appalachia.:
[…]polling continues to show that—in spite of unprecedented unpopularity—nearly all people who voted for Trump would do it again. But as I compared this year’s answers to last year’s responses it seemed clear that the basis of people’s support had morphed. Johnstown voters do not intend to hold the president accountable for the nonnegotiable pledges he made to them. It’s not that the people who made Trump president have generously moved the goalposts for him. It’s that they have eliminated the goalposts altogether.This reality ought to get the attention of anyone who thinks they will win in 2018 or 2020 by running against Trump’s record. His supporters here, it turns out, are energized by his bombast and his animus more than any actual accomplishments.
Ezra Klein has the right take on this:
Here’s the thing: No one will win in 2018 or 2020 by trying to convert the most hardcore of Trump supporters. That isn’t how elections are won. It never has been: Herbert Hoover, in the depths of the Great Depression, held about 80 percent of his vote from the previous election. You can imagine stories going deep into Hoover country quoting diehard Hooverites explaining away their president’s failures. But Hoover still lost his reelection bid in a landslide.
Or take Tuesday’s elections in Virginia. The massive Democratic victory was driven, among other things, by a surge in turnout from suburban districts that leaned Democratic in 2016, but swung harder blue in 2017. The northern Virginia suburbs delivered 64 percent of their vote to Hillary Clinton last year and 68 percent to Ralph Northam this year. A 4 percentage point swing toward the Democratic candidate in 2020 wouldn’t require converting any hardcore Trump enthusiasts, but it would bury his reelection campaign.
The second dumb thing is the Times’ social media policy, and how their general over-reaction to criticism leads to susceptibility to trolling. Jay Rosen has a long piece on this, here’s a taste:
But when it comes to social media, Dean Baquet has inexplicably chosen a different path. His view: The newsroom should be disciplined and guided, not by what’s true or verifiable as fact, not by what Times journalists believe in their bones, but by the things hostile critics might say upon discovery of a voicey tweet. This decision is a disaster, not because the right to commit snark is vital to preserve (it isn’t…) but because the Times, to be great, has to be great on all platforms, and there is no way that will happen if social media policy is grounded in impression management and conflict avoidance, rather than truthtelling, leveling with readers, and the flicker of magic in the human voice.
The New York Times and the Washington Post are known to keep a close watch on each other. Dean Baquet should be asking himself: why isn’t the Post choking and wheezing on its social media policy? Why is he spending entire days trying to discipline his troops? Is Marty Baron investing his time that way? I doubt it. Baron and the Post exude confidence— in their reporting and the voices that bring it to life on other platforms.
Meanwhile, the Times seems more concerned that Peter Baker and Maggie Haberman will lose access to… well, that’s the problem. Access to what? If it’s this kind of journalism — and stenography would be a fair and accurate term for this text — then something is very wrong in the hierarchy of the New York Times. And that again returns to Baquet, who is being outplayed by his rival, Marty Baron at the Post.
jonas
The deplorable 27% will remain deplorable and there’s probably not much to be done about that. But they’re not a majority. A lot of “independents” and other just plain lazy, low-information voters pulled the lever for Trump purely out of suspicion of Clinton, or just a vague sense that Trump was some kind of no-nonsense, wacky outsider who would “shake things up.” And don’t forget the former Obama voters who also just didn’t show up in a lot of places. *These* people can be reached with arguments about Trump’s awfulness and incompetence and will vote for a Dem if they think they like the cut of his or her jib.
Regnad Kcin
ZOMFG just got back from 5 days outside the country. So glad to be in a place where FTFNYT is not the paper of record.
mirele
I’ve tried to engage with Trump voters over the Roy Moore thing and it’s apparent they just don’t care. They don’t care if their guy is Gropey McGroperson, he’s a Republican and that’s all that matters. I’m thinking we shouldn’t waste our time on these hardcore types but instead work with people who are on the fence.
ETA based on previous comment: I’ve been trying to get my Spanish up to speed, so I’ve been reading El Pais (Spain). It’s frankly amazing and annoying that the top story last Friday was all about Roy Moore. Although it did wonders for my Spanish comprehension.
Cermet
The washington post is acting as a paper that actually decided that reporting was in its best interest; the NY-times has decided that just asking “Can I have another, sir!” is the better approach. Thugs and other wrong winger’s will never be accepting of facts and for them, the far worse liberal rag that caves to their desires. tRump voters – i.e.e wrong wing white males for the most part,will never change their minds; that requires an IQ above 70.
Patricia Kayden
It’s not rocket science to figure out that you can’t reach certain people and need to turn out more of your base to win elections. Republicans aren’t trying to reach me so they’ve obviously figured that out (along with voter suppression, Russian collusion, etc.).
Major Major Major Major
@Regnad Kcin: Where were you? Lots of countries have completely deranged media.
JMG
Baron is so much better an editor than Baquet the competition isn’t a fair fight. I say that as a former newspaper writer for 30 years. Since Times has equal talent at least and more resources, the Sulzberger family ought to be very worried. That they’re apparently not means that access journalism is what they want.
p.a.
Nice look over at bonddad on some of the demographics and drivers of the Virginia election.
Droppy
I feel as if 2018 is the last chance in some ways – huge anti-Repub turnout is needed to barely squeak past vast voter suppression barriers and come up with some majorities whose very, absolute first job has to be reversal of said voter suppression barriers. Then in a couple of more elections we can start to breath easier – but we really have to pull out all the stops for 2018.
cokane
victory was never about convincing trump voters, shoot even those weirdo Obama-Trump voters shouldn’t be the target imo. Dems, running national campaigns, should always just be focused on basically hammering the same policy messages and making sure everyone of their supporters votes. The self-identification split between Dems and Reps is huge.
Hunter Gathers
Granted, going after the bigots who voted for Trump is about as useful as a marzipan dildo, but if lip service isn’t paid the The Only Voters That Matter by whoever the nominee ends up being is going to be ratfucked by our lazy, stupid MSM betters.
ThresherK
I read Jay Rosen’s piece half an hour after it landed.
Jay Rosen is a media critic we need and which the NYTimes doesn’t want.
Mike in NC
After reading that Politico piece on the diehard deplorables of Johnstown, PA last week, I couldn’t help but wonder if another nice cleansing flood would be appropriate. Also, too, withhold all FEMA assistance there until power was fully restored to Puerto Rico and the USVI.
Felonius Monk
Right on. The idea should be how do we get these cretins to crawl back under their rock and stay away from the voting booth.
sharl
I’m glad Ezra Klein wrote what he did. But I remain mad at him for helping to give Paul Ryan undeserved credibility as a policy wonk some years ago, while at the same time folks like Paul Krugman were jumping up-and-down warning about ZEGS. In my book, Klein has a long way to go before that stain on his record is erased.
raven
Vietnamese musician and activist evicted after Trump protest
Mai Khoi and her husband told to leave their Hanoi apartment after she held up ‘Piss on you Trump’ sign at US president’s motorcade earlier
schrodingers_cat
@sharl: And his hair-on-fire Broderian take on ACA website roll out
Baud
The NYT is garbage.
Brachiator
Baquet desperately wants to be portrayed in a movie about a crusading newspaper. He may have to settle for a near funny SNL skit.
Regnad Kcin
@Major Major Major Major: Scotland — was reading me some Guardian
Dave
@cokane: Exactly that. Any Trump voters that want to wake the hell up and come along or even realize voting may not be their core strength and stay out of politics are welcome to but wasting time, effort, and money to appeal to Trump’s base is so obviously folly that anyone advocating it as a strategy is under immediate suspicion. They are either a rodent copulater or so bad at politics that they should be consulted to figure out what not to do.
hueyplong
I don’t see anything in the Politico piece that suggests Dems should cater to the people described in the story. If anything, it invites you to draw the conclusion that those people should be written off in electoral terms.
[Not saying Dems, once back in power, should do nothing to help them. Just saying they’re politically hopeless from our POV and no time or effort should be spent on appealing to them for votes.]
danielx
The Politico piece was, I have to admit, a serious eye opener. There is no point in trying to engage with those people; their support for Trump is more like theology than anything else. Kind of like literal interpretation of the Bible or Republican faith in trickle down economics and the Laffer curve, evidence and logic have no impact whatsoever.
SiubhanDuinne
O/T, big quake on Iran-Iraq border. Reported 61 dead, which I’m sure will rise.
Hungry Joe
See Rebecca Solnit’s piece on the benefits of preaching to the choir, in the current Harper’s. Don’t waste time arguing with people who hate you. Instead, preach your values — yes, to the choir, but the message of comity and hope and good governance will inspire your fellow worshipers and bring others in. So, preach health care for all, taxing the filthy rich, rebuilding our infrastructure, lowering and forgiving student debt, free public education through college, climate change action, fair treatment of immigrants, renewable energy. Sing it loud, unashamed, and (one hopes) in key. They will come.
Chip Daniels
Trump deadenders can’t be persuaded or compromised with anyway since what they want is whatever hurts Democrats (aka colored folks, gays, and uppity women).
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: Talk about a place that doesn’t need it.
dexwood
Regarding Trump’s die hard base of loudly, proudly, ignorant assholes, let me quote two esteemed regulars of this place:
Fuck ’em.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Greetings from
Sunnycloudy Southern CA, I just got back from the meetup in Pasadena. We had about 20 folk there, pics later.Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Forgot that was tonight. Twenty folks is a good turnout. Looking forward to the pictures.
PST
After the Virginia election, Joe Scarborough said something I thought was absolutely dead wrong (no surprise). He said that the Democrats prevailed because Trump supporters are frustrated by his failure to keep any of his promises. As the Politico story shows, this isn’t at all correct, and in fact the Trump voters showed up for Gillespie in good numbers. The story makes it as clear as can be what actually motivates them. The outcome was the result of fear by Democrats, independents, and renegade Republicans that he might KEEP his promises. His attempts at “repealing and replacing” and tax “reform” are harmful enough and have come close enough to passage to awaken fear that the Trump program may get somewhere. That brought them out in droves, including the kind of jerks (I know many) who didn’t vote a year ago because they “didn’t agree with either candidate,” as one of them told me the other day. It looks more real after a year. But it is the threat of Trump keeping promises, not frustration with his failure, that is making all the difference.
CaseyL
Trump supporters can DIAF, and they can’t do it soon enough to suit me.
Has anyone here caught Jen Rubin’s column in WaPo on the state of the GOP? A certified RWNJ right up until Trump was elected, she is now saying the whole party should be junked. Roy Moore has proven to be the bridge too far for her.
It’ll be interesting to see if any other high profile GOP voters decide they want out of the cesspool. (Note, Rubin hasn’t said anything about her future voting behavior; she may take refuge in saying she’s an “Independent,” from now on.)
O. Felix Culpa
@dexwood: Co-signed.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Yeah. It was a 7.2. Couple of hundred injured. Again, this number is almost guaranteed to go up.
Feel so desperately sad for the normal everyday people of the region (as opposed to political/religious “leaders”).
Baud
@PST: Most Trump voters are simply Republican voters. It isn’t like Obama won white working class voters either.
oatler.
@Chip Daniels: I suspected something had replaced Christ in their religious hearts, and this seething immortal malice might be it. “Blessed are the Pussy Grabbers”.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: It was quite a good turnout.
ETA: I’ll put up a 360 degree pic on my Flickr page in a few minutes. They won’t post well on the blog.
Doug R
@jonas: Or the Obama supporters who had their president votes “dissappeared” like the thousands in Detroit and Flint.
mike in dc
Trump retaining 75% of his base, and no significant third party vote, would lead to one of the most lopsided popular vote and electoral vote blowout losses for him in history.
smintheus
It turns out? This wasn’t news even two years ago. My Trump-loving neighbor said as much to me in the summer of 2015: “We know Trump’s an idiot but we love him because he says all the things the base keeps saying but Republican politicians are too squeamish to say out loud.” It’s always been because Trump spews vitriol.
Baud
OT but since people always complain about Dems not doing more, I just learned about this from politico
different-church-lady
I suppose it would also help if we as a society hadn’t let Twitter become more influential than actual old-school journalism.
tobie
I haven’t read the Politico piece, so I’m not sure if it mentions that Clinton/Kaine’s first campaign stop after the Democratic convention was in Johnstown, PA. She gave a really good speech there on how to jumpstart manufacturing and ensure that American workers could compete in a global economy. Fat bit of good it did her. I still wish that PA’s Dem Gov Tom Wolf would have the courage to order an audit of the state’s election machines.
different-church-lady
@smintheus:
Bingo. He makes hating fun. It’s always been about that. He gets his asshole on, and assholes love it.
Duane
I have to wonder how the educational system failed Trump die-hards so badly that they can’t add two and two. That sounds harsh, I’m not a genius either, but come on, folks, you’ve been taken by a con man.
Steeplejack (phone)
@CaseyL:
Rubin’s recent pieces were discussed earlier today. In one of them she describes a hypothetical alternative to the GOP that is pretty much the current Democratic Party, although apparently she is too blind to see that.
Princess
I read that Politico piece as, unlike all the other Trump voter pieces before and since the election, saying, “No. You were right. They are racists above all and are unreachable.”
different-church-lady
@tobie: “SHE WON’T ADDRESS PEOPLE’S ECONOMIC CONCERNS!!!”
“Actually, she does that all the time.”
“BUT WHAT ABOUT HER E-MAILS!!!!”
“The e-mail thing is bullshit, and everybody knows it.”
“YEAH, BUT SHE WON’T GIVE PEOPLE JOBS AND ADDRESS THEIR ECONOMIC ANXIETY!!!”
“Dafuk is wrong with you people?!?”
chris
@Major Major Major Major: And/or deranged governments. In Polish news today a journalist will be prosecuted for reporting accurately on yesterday’s Nazi monster rally.
https://twitter.com/Bart_Wielinski/status/929796225959907329
Snarki, child of Loki
We’ve known for over fifty years now that “appeasing fascists” is NOT a good strategy.
Carpet bombing them into oblivion? Yeah, that works.
smintheus
@different-church-lady: Yup. It’s pretty clear from listening to my neighbors that they’ve responded to years of dog-whistle racism from Republican politicians and media by getting resentful of dog whistles. They think it signals (and it does) that the party leadership is embarrassed of their frankly racist base.
different-church-lady
@Snarki, child of Loki:
In the short term, at least.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@chris:
Wow. I guess it could be worse. We could be like Poland, where tens of thousands of Nazis come out loud and proud.
“Did all 36,000 say profanities?”
That could have been said by a propagandist on Fox News.
Culture of Truth
This is all true, but it’s not quite right to focus on percentage of the vote, 64 vs 68, or to call it a “swing,” because, as Ezra rightly points out, the point is to increase turnout of your base – and certainly Trump helps with that for Democrats, as do many other factors.
Culture of Truth
adding, I would have thought all this was obvious. It was Trump’s PT Barnum act they liked, not this so-called policy positions, because if it was policy they cared about and not electing a game show host, they would have voted for someone else in the primaries.
Culture of Truth
@PST: darn right
Joe Scar probably isn’t this stupid so I assume it’s an act – either way I don’t care
Gvg
Well I know a few Trump voters who just thought “the system needed shaking up” whom I have heard saying “I am beginning to think Trump just isn’t that smart” about 2 months ago.
I checked out fox’s website Friday to compare after election results new to other sites and noticed they did mention republican’s lost a couple of stories but all the rest were about horrible crimes around the nation. Weird murders, attacks etc. selling fear and abnormality. Really junky stories, it struck me that they must have had to hunt for such stupid viciousness. Not exactly what I was expecting but I should have. They don’t know reality TV isn’t real.
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I went straight from there to a NaNoWriMo meetup. My brain is slightly melted with all of the socializing now. I ended up sitting with Ruckus, Uncle Ebeneezer, and a lurker, and then VFX Lurker came down from the other end of the table and we chatted until it was time for me to head out to my next thing. And I saw my regular peeps, too: opiejeannie and Bill and Roger and someone else whose name I’m blanking on but who has a very impressive moustache. He knows who he is.
eta: And I think it was dmsmilev on Ruckus’ other side? We had a full house!
mai naem mobile
@Duane: why do you think people say there’s a sicker born every minute?
Peale
@PST: when Democrats lose, its because voters prefer Republican policies. When Democrats win, it’s because voters prefer Republican policies.
Lapassionara
@Baud: That’s good to hear. I saw a headline in the St Louis paper today about a MO power company transitioning away from coal, so I am hoping that the trend away from coal will continue.
Duane
Conservatives would literally vote for a pedophile, or Satan, than a highly qualified Democrat. Roy Moore’s candidacy proves that.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack (phone):
You know, I like her trajectory. Give her a little more time. She’s smart and articulate, and I’ll be happy to welcome her to the Democratic Party whenever she cares to declare.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Rod at the BlackGuyWhoTips podcast, coined the phrase “Performative Impartiality” a couple weeks ago, which, Imo, absolutely nails this phenomenon and the past couple decades of news coverage/political punditry. Although I guess that’s not quite true, because showing obvious bias towards right-wing talking points never seems to concern the Dean Baquets of the world. Funny that…
Bonnie
Donald Trump is a mean, nasty, and horrible, horrible human being. I feel this reflects on his supporters and that they are mean, nasty, and horrible, horrible human beings. Then, I wonder how did this nice, caring, kind country become a mean, nasty, and horrible, horrible country. However, what needs to be kept in mind is to take the 3 million more people who voted for Hillary and the 7+ million who voted for other candidates you get 10.6 million Americans who voted AGAINST trump. Thus, if you can motivate those voters to vote Democrat and get out a good percentage of the nonvoters, trump could be beaten. Maybe that is too simple.
Duane
@mai naem mobile: Never realized that was a literal saying. I was wrong.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Mnemosyne: Great meeting you all, that was fun. Maybe next time we can figure out a way to have it be less segregated by table geography. While I got to have great conversations with you and a half dozen people at our end of the table, I didn’t get any time with the other side.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Yup.
Madeleine
@Doug R: I live near Detroit and heard about the voting machine problems and the uncounted votes right after the election–it sounded suspect. But then the story just went poof! So Hillary lost the state, though who knows how many avotes for her went uncounted, and 2018 is coming . . . Will the voting machines work this time?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
@Mnemosyne: There’s a link to a 360 degree pic on my Flickr page on the next thread.
@Uncle Ebeneezer: The table thing is always a problem; I guess we need a round table, but that would cause other problems.
hellslittlestangel
“Praise the lord! The leopards is eatin’ mah face!”
No, you really can’t argue with that.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Mnemosyne: PS, here is that Burbank bar that I mentioned :(
Mnemosyne
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
It’s always tough to get people to mix at a long table, especially when there’s food and/or drink involved and the waitress needs to keep us all straight.
Mnemosyne
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
Never been there, and now I know to keep it that way.
Duane
@SiubhanDuinne:Jen Rubin, Rick Wilson, and many others have the opportunity to show real character and become Democrats.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Uncle Ebeneezer: Cross that one off as a venue for any meetup by the jackals.
Arm The Homeless
@CaseyL: as with all RWNJ, it took a few rounds of gas chamber memes from the GOPs new foot-soldiers, to convince her that tax cuts weren’t worth it.
See also: Kristol, Bill
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I’m shocked!
I’m shocked!
So it wasn’t #EconomicAnxiety after all
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOONODE!?!
Uncle Ebeneezer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah. Sorry I didn’t get down to that end. Next time, for sure.
Baud
@sylvania: Cute, but we had that choice in 2016.
Calouste
@Bonnie:
Which country are you talking about? The US has never been nice, caring, and kind? Exhibit A: it’s the only country that can afford, but doesn’t have, health insurance for all.
Kay
I knew the linemen weren’t getting $319 an hour. Billing Puerto Rico $319 an hour has nothing to do with what they are actually paying to the workers.
The Trump cronies were sucking up the difference between what they billed and what they paid and they’re not even a real, reputable contractor- they have no regular skilled employees- no “company men” they keep employed in down times so they suck even as an employer.
I want someone competent and honest to oversee the Trump Administration management of the hundreds of billions in recovery money for these disasters. They’re incompetent crooks so they hire incompetent crooks. It’ll be like the Bush Administration in Iraq.
Kay
The Jay Rosen piece is good but they should give up on the NYTimes covering Trump. They can’t do it. I don’t know if it’s because NY media has been working with Trump to promote Trump for 40 years but they’re useless.
It’s not that bad. There can be one national newspaper that covers Donald Trump well- it just won’t be the NYTimes. It’ll be the Washington Post. They won this contest. We don’t all have to rally ’round the loser and implore them to change. That’s not the reader’s job. One is enough. Just enough, as it turns out, but enough.
sm*t cl*de
@Duane:
“If the God-Emperor is willing to lie to us and rip us off so blatantly — his own supporters! — imagine how badly he’ll treat our enemies!!”
Amaranthine RBG
Let me inject a little reality into this: Clinton won blacks and Hispanics in 2016 by 88 and 65 percent. Northam got almost identical numbers – 87 and 67.
Clinton won only 35 percent of the white vote, while Northam won 42 percent. And the margin of victory in Virginia? About 7 percent.
That’s how you win elections. You scrap for every single vote.
Aside from the stupid sanctuary cities stuff, Northam did nothing in his campaign to alienate or target blacks and hispanics. You don’t need to do that to win the white vote. But, just like everybody else, you have to give them a reason to vote for you.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I get RT on cable and I watched their nightly news show every day last week. They ran a segment almost every night on Donna Brazile. On three nights they ran segments stating the DNC hack was an inside job.
The russians claim to be innocent, but they sure act guilty.
Villago Delenda Est
@Dave: The Deplorables = The Berniebros wet dream.
Which is why the Berniebros should be tossed onto the same flaming heap of burning tires as the Deplorables.
Baud
This article came across my feed. Is it just me, or is there something off about the reporting?
https://www.axios.com/democrats-versus-trump-over-daca-2508907781.html
Kay
The strutting little rooster is back in the hot seat next week, so we can all watch him put on his phony “mah HONOR” act again:
The attorney general can’t lie as much as the president lies. At some point Sessions is gonna have to go. Trump is too cowardly to fire him so they’ll have to question him until the weight of the lies buries him and he has to resign.
Good fucking riddance. He was bad enough in Congress. He’s a disaster as AG. Get rid of him now and the country gets a two-fer.
Baud
@Kay: He’s not leaving unless Trump fires him.
Baud
Heh.
https://i.imgur.com/6oIn6PM.jpg
PJ
@different-church-lady: Are you telling me there’s a public policy issue so complex it can’t be reduced to a witty 140 (now 280) characters?
Comedians and “taste-maker” tools I get, but what is curious to me is why journalists, of all people, embraced a medium which eschews their greatest strengths. (Of course, I know part of it, if not all of it, is because they are hooked on the instant affirmation of thousands of “followers”, particularly their peers in the media.)
Kay
@Baud:
I disagree. I think Congress can hound him out of office. There really is a higher standard for AG. He just doesn’t meet the standard. He can’t go to congressional hearings and lie! My God, who does he think he is? Jared Kushner? Sessions has an actual JOB with clearly defined rules and standards and benchmarks. He’s one of the FEW Trumpsters who can be held accountable so he’ll get the full brunt of the oversight. It’s not “who is the worst?” It’s “who can we reach?” They can reach him.
Baud
@Kay: He’s on a mission to protect racists. Nothing will deter him.
RAM
Dean Baquet should have been fired long ago; he’s been a total disaster on the news side of the NYT. He’d be a much bettter fit at the Moonie Times.
different-church-lady
@PJ:
Bingo. The other half is the part where the institutions convinced themselves the noise of social media was more important that the signal they used to provide.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: Was that Feebog? I didn’t get to talk to him much and I wanted to, but I had a good time talking to Bill in Glendale and a couple of other people. Also dmsilev was there and I wanted to talk to him. I didn’t get enough time with most of the jackals but Ruckus entertained us to the end
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.)
I think part of the problem here is that a whole lot of people still just don’t think anybody but white voters are real voters. Remember how, every time a Democrat wins a big election, we get all these stories about how if you throw out the Black vote or you throw out the Hispanic vote, Democrats would never win another election ever again? People, a lot of them anyway, just can’t see anybody but white people as “real voters”. That’s why we get all this “Oh, dear, Democrats really need to win lots of Tяump voters or they’ll never win again!” shit.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’m not so sure about her “trajectory.” Yes, she has been hammering the GOP since Trump was elected, but I still see an occasional subtext of “We have to fix/replace the GOP so we can get back to smiting Democrats.” I’m not sure if she’s ever going to join the choir.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: I agree with you. She is more likely to be an element of a more or less sensible opposition to Democrats than to be come a Democrat herself.
different-church-lady
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.):
Hell, we frequently see that right here in BJ’s own comments.
Jake the antisoshul soshulist
@Patricia Kayden:
Even Pauthe self appointed Apostle figured this out. His advice was to “shake the dirt from your sandals”
and move on.
Ruckus
@danielx:
That should be obvious if they believe any of the mentioned subjects. Evidence and logic do not exist in their worlds because their worlds depend solely on belief in bullshit. There are no facts, evidence or logic involved.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
I’m not sure we as a society “let” that happen. Sure we didn’t try to stop it from happening but they are nominally grown boys and girls and we really don’t have a way to stop them other than by boycott, make it unprofitable enough.
Ruckus
@Duane:
The rubes always like the con, till they find out the true cost.
Central Planning
@Ruckus:
That’s not true. My RWNJ co-worker thinks that because he hires a plow guy, he’s a job creator. I guess that also means that grocery shopping makes him a job creator too. SMH.
Ruckus
@Central Planning:
There’s your proof. No logic involved.
Although….. It doesn’t make him a job creator, it makes him a job enabler. Tell your co-worker that plow guy would still be there if he didn’t hire him, he’d still have the plow, there would still be snow, his driveway would still be impassable. Unless of course you lived somewhere like I do, where we get snow for maybe 10 minutes, once about every 30 yrs, it melts before it hits the ground or leaves such a light powder that really there is nothing to plow. So there are no plow guys here, even if your co-worker wanted to hire one.
Bonnie
@Calouste: Health insurance is just one issue. I am sorry that you did not see the kind, caring country I saw. Nobody or country is perfect; but, if you keep at it some of the kindness will rub off. But, recently there is something wrong with this country. If not, how did we end up with such a scumbag for president.
J R in WV
@SiubhanDuinne:
So, everything we haven’t knocked down, or the civil war hasn’t knocked down, the earth will knock down, just to be through. Jeeze. Just what those folks needed.
No wonder those folks invented religions to help them deal with adversity – they have so very much of it, all the time!
FlipYrWhig
@Amaranthine RBG:
I live in Virginia and saw this campaign up close. Northam’s “reason to vote for [me]” was “I’m not a dick like my opponent and the president.” We’ve been overthinking this “reason to vote for you” stuff for years, at least since the Lakoff book about “framing.” “Not a dick” may well be reason enough.
Amaranthine RBG
@FlipYrWhig:
Well, it’s a darn good start, anyway.
afanasia
@Omnes Omnibus: As do I. But she deserves credit for this: she’s attacking Trump. Not “expressing concern”.
Omnes Omnibus
@afanasia: I will have respect for a decent conservative opposition when one appears.