Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Republicans in disarray!

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

A consequence of cucumbers

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Please don’t feed the bears.

The lights are all blinking red.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Quday’s Problematic Penpal

Quday’s Problematic Penpal

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I can’t wait to watch these motherfuckers get perp walked:

Just before the stroke of midnight on September 20, 2016, at the height of last year’s presidential election, the Wikileaks Twitter account sent a private direct message to Donald Trump Jr., the Republican nominee’s oldest son and campaign surrogate. “A PAC run anti-Trump site putintrump.org is about to launch,” Wikileaks wrote. “The PAC is a recycled pro-Iraq war PAC. We have guessed the password. It is ‘putintrump.’ See ‘About’ for who is behind it. Any comments?” (The site, which has since become a joint project with Mother Jones, was founded by Rob Glaser, a tech entrepreneur, and was funded by Progress for USA Political Action Committee.)

The next morning, about 12 hours later, Trump Jr. responded to Wikileaks. “Off the record I don’t know who that is, but I’ll ask around,” he wrote on September 21, 2016. “Thanks.”

The messages, obtained by The Atlantic, were also turned over by Trump Jr.’s lawyers to congressional investigators. They are part of a long—and largely one-sided—correspondence between Wikileaks and the president’s son that continued until at least July 2017. The messages show Wikileaks, a radical transparency organization that the American intelligence community believes was chosen by the Russian government to disseminate the information it had hacked, actively soliciting Trump Jr.’s cooperation. Wikileaks made a series of increasingly bold requests, including asking for Trump’s tax returns, urging the Trump campaign on Election Day to reject the results of the election as rigged, and requesting that the president-elect tell Australia to appoint Julian Assange ambassador to the United States.

Mueller knows who he asked about this. We will soon, too, but I am guessing Roger Stone is involved.

Reader Interactions

280Comments

  2. 2.

    Mary G

    Your lips to dog’s ears, John. It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life.

  5. 5.

    Mark K

    Having to explain yesterday to my young son about Iran-Contra and how they all got away with it, I’ll believe the “perp-walk” when I see it. I’d even start going to church again if that happened.

    These people are the most complete combo of dumb + evil I’ve ever seen in American government.

  8. 8.

    Immanentize

    I am guessing Roger Stone is involved.

    And Cambridge Analytics — from Adam’s earlier comments….

  9. 9.

    Waldo

    I find this all too confusing to get worked up about. Counting on Mueller to bring the serious criminal aspects into focus.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    Dang. You’re gonna make me look at The Atlantic again, after saying (downstairs) I wouldn’t.

    Put in Trump.

    PutinTrump.

    Same difference.

  12. 12.

    Immanentize

    @Cheryl Rofer: I know! I love how much Mueller has at his disposal from regular LEO sources and all the world’s intelligence agencies. Makes me tingle in anticipation….

  13. 13.

    Elizabelle

    @Immanentize: Yes. We want to find out why Robert Mercer is stepping down from the Board, although not leaving, Cambridge Analytica. And selling his Breitbart stakes to his rightwing daughters.

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians. Maybe Mueller can make that happen.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @Kristine: I hope not. Gorsuch gotta go, and the worst of the federal judge appointees too.

    And don’t let them keep the presidency. No rewarding his party for their nominee stealing the White House.

  17. 17.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle:

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians.

    I think that is becoming more likely every day, and not because of US pressure. If anything, we are probably helping (i.e, paying) the Ecuadorans to harbor him.

  20. 20.

    dedc79

    It’s basically a John Le Carre novel, except with all the participants having a combined IQ under 100.

  26. 26.

    Immanentize

    @dedc79: The other day we decided it was all a Le Carre novel, but all the characters were meth addicts. I guess the two are not binary….

  27. 27.

    aimai

    @Elizabelle: This will not affect his appointments at all. It won’t affect Trump at all. Impeachment is a political matter. And they will never impeach. And even if they did it won’t retroactively remove his presidential powers.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @germy: That’s the best part! WL explicitly says it would be helpful for their (WL’s) public image since they were accused of being pro-Trump. Can you even? Jesus — what dedc79 said at #20.

  29. 29.

    Immanentize

    @germy:

    Getting drumpf through drumpf, jr.?

    I worry that will end up like trying to get Zeus through one of his kids….

  30. 30.

    germy

    Though Trump Jr. mostly ignored the frequent messages from WikiLeaks, he at times appears to have acted on its requests. When WikiLeaks first reached out to Trump Jr. about putintrump.org, for instance, Trump Jr. followed up on his promise to “ask around.”

    According to a source familiar with the congressional investigations into Russian interference with the 2016 campaign, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, on the same day that Trump Jr. received the first message from WikiLeaks, he emailed other senior officials with the Trump campaign, including Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale, and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, telling them WikiLeaks had made contact. Kushner then forwarded the email to campaign communications staffer Hope Hicks. At no point during the 10-month correspondence does Trump Jr. rebuff WikiLeaks

    oof!

  31. 31.

    The Moar You Know

    I’d love to see Assange bounced by the Ecuadorians.

    @Elizabelle: I would not. He’d make it about two steps out the door before being shot in the head. He knows WAY too much for Uncle Vlad to let him live.

    I’d like to see him hauled off in the dead of night by a British or American squad of law enforcement goons. He needs to be pumped dry of info.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    @germy: That’s what I think. Although who knows how much loyalty Trump will show to the lesser (ie. least attractive) of his spawn?

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    @germy: I can think of a million reasons, one likely being they would bury them in the DNC or Podesta emails and claim that they stole them from the IRS.

  37. 37.

    Immanentize

    @aimai: I agree, but Gorsuch is particularly vulnerable politically in that the Republicans violated every norm to get him on the Court.

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne

    I’m going to say it again: the Trumpers and Republicans are themselves so propagandized at this point that they really do think that the Clintons are crooked but were never caught, so they were susceptible to every two-bit con artist who came to them and swore that, this time, they really did have the goods, only they couldn’t deliver jjjjuuussssstttt yet …

    IOW, they got high on their own supply.

  41. 41.

    germy

    @Immanentize:

    I can think of a million reasons, one likely being they would bury them in the DNC or Podesta emails and claim that they stole them from the IRS.

    The anwer to my question is further along in the article. I posted before reading the whole thing.

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    @germy: By the way, does anyone think we do not have EVERY FUCKING communication in and out of the Ecuadoran embassy? Illegal, perhaps, but not in the ol’ US of A.

    ETA By “we” I mean Bobby three sticks.

  43. 43.

    Tom Q

    During the height of Watergate, a lot of us were thinking, it’s so damn obvious the SOB’s guilty (as Doonesbury famously put it, “That’s GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!”); how long will it take for that to become commonly accepted knowledge?

    This is the same, on steroids. We’ve already had revelations that ought to sink a presidency — today’s just the latest example — but it’s like some in the press are waiting for Steve Doocy’s concurrence. Face it: there are going to be more/worse stories. This is the biggest scandal in America history, and it’s high time we all started acting like it.

    I see no way this doesn’t end with Trump utterly crashing and burning, taking the party down with him. The only question is how deep the rot goes, and, whatever your bet, I’ll take the over.

  45. 45.

    lamh36

    1. Trust and believe…Roy Moore’s people in AL are looking to find ANYONE willing to come forward, for money or fame to accuse the Dem
    2. WH won’t officially touch the Roy Moore thing…instead they’ll focus on this story bout Jr and Wikileaks.
    3. Chump will STILL tweet something stupid surely

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    @Mary G:

    It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life.

    I suppose it will be an interesting legal question.

    But why not just arrest all of Trump’s nominees and have their cases dragged out in court until they die in prison.

    It worked for Guantanamo Bay.

  48. 48.

    Redshift

    @germy:

    Why would they ask for 45’s tax returns?

    According to the article, the argument WikiLeaks was making to Junior is that if they leaked them, it would counter the impression that they were a pro-Russia and pro-Trump organization, giving their anti-Clinton leaks more impact.

    Kind of stupid, but it does make it pretty damn obvious that they knew they were a pro-Putin organization, Assange’s protestations notwithstanding.

  50. 50.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    Should the vacancy arise soon (it likely won’t), by the Rs own ‘arguments’ Christie should be barred from appointing a replacement for Menendez as it is his last year as governor.

  52. 52.

    The Moar You Know

    I suspect Assange is more helpful alive than dead, at least at this stage.

    @Elizabelle: LOL. I’m sure there will come a point when he is more useful to us dead, and I don’t have a problem with that. He’s engaged in warfare against the US, and facilitated treason by several individuals.

  54. 54.

    bemused

    @Immanentize:

    Chris Hayes also said every time someone reaches out to trump world with skeevy asks, they say, “Let’s totally do this.”

    True, they just jump all in.

  56. 56.

    Betty Cracker

    @Tom Q: I definitely agree it’s the biggest political scandal in American history. I fervently hope that it will take Trump down. No other outcome is acceptable.

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    @Tom Q:

    The only question is how deep the rot goes, and, whatever your bet, I’ll take the over.

    All of em, Katie.

    We’re gonna experience a spiked pike shortfall before this is over.

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    @Tom Q:

    This is the biggest scandal in America history, and it’s high time we all started acting like it.

    I see no way this doesn’t end with Trump utterly crashing and burning, taking the party down with him. The only question is how deep the rot goes

    I agree, totally.

    Roy Moore is an entertaining skirmish, but the big story is what we’re not hearing, on the Trump and Republicans front, that Mueller is professionally and doggedly pursuing.

    And why McConnell (and Ryan?) dissuaded Obama from publicizing what the intelligence community was seeing. As a voter, we should have been told. We were not.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    I mean, we live in a time when CNN is running ads saying “this is not a banana.” The fuck?!

  61. 61.

    Immanentize

    @Mary G:

    It’s hard to be patient when all of the courts are being packed for life

    There are many many many federal courts, and there are only just a slightly above average number of vacancies. We survived 12 years of Reagan/Bush followed by another eight years of Bush II. We can make it through 4 years of this maniac.

    Per Wikishit:

    There are currently 874 authorized Article III judgeships: nine on the Supreme Court, 179 on the courts of appeals, nine on the Court of International Trade and 677 for the district courts.

  63. 63.

    aimai

    @Immanentize: What on earth does “vulnerable politically” mean in that sentence? I’m confused by what you think could force a sitting justice off the bench. There is nothing. Literally nothing that anyone can do about Gorsuch. He does not have to step down, and no one can force him to. There is no mechanism to remove him that I know of or no one who will impeach him to make that happen.

  65. 65.

    Roger Moore

    I wish people would stop associating Wikileaks with radical transparency. They are interested in selectively publicizing people’s dirt, but that’s not at all the same thing because it’s so selective. If they were actually interested in transparency, they’d publicize their own information, like where their funding comes from. You know, the way the Clinton Global Initiative does.

  70. 70.

    Julia Grey

    I am officially confused now. Why did WikiLeaks think these stratagems would blunt the “pro-Trump” accusations?

  72. 72.

    lamh36

    @juliaioffe
    Follow Follow @juliaioffe
    More
    We’ve now updated the story with @ByronTau’s great catch: @realDonaldTrump tweeted about the release of Podesta’s emails *15 minutes* after @Wikileaks wrote to @DonaldJTrumpJr about it.

  73. 73.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize: They’re targeting the Appeals Courts.

    Which is a big fucking deal. They pack those successfully and all those laughing about the thought of Civil War are going to find themselves crying.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Julia Grey: Because everyone from the far left to the far right was insane last year, and totally would have ran with that defense. The NYT would run a story blaming Hillary for defaming poor WikiLeaks.

  77. 77.

    Immanentize

    @aimai: I do not believe there is nothing. It just requires a political moment. See, Fortas, J.
    The legal community will not circle the wagons for the guy. Any impropriety will be damaging to deadly for his position. If (when) Trump goes, unlike Scalia, Gorsuch will not be able to go to secret retreats with oil magnates. But he will.

  81. 81.

    lamh36

    chrisgeidner
    Follow Follow @chrisgeidner
    More
    The very same morning Pence said the Trump campaign wasn’t “in cahoots” with WikiLeaks, Don Jr. tweeted out a link provided to him by … WikiLeaks.

  85. 85.

    dr. bloor

    and requesting that the president-elect tell Australia to appoint Julian Assange ambassador to the United States.

    Is this a spoof, or has Assange gone that far off the rails in his closet?

  88. 88.

    germy

    Any time you see in the news that an email about Russia was sent to this person—HOPE HICKS—it means that email was seen by TRUMP. Don Jr., Papadopoulos, Page, and others appear to have used Hicks as an "email launderer"—she shows emails to Trump he can later claim he never saw. pic.twitter.com/DIvVRNdCXb— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) November 13, 2017

  91. 91.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @The Moar You Know:
    I don’t think Assange knows anything dangerous to Putin that would make killing him necessary. It’s not like Assange needed suborning, or that Wikileaks is tightly organized. He would gleefully leap on any anti-Hillary and anti-Obama information one of his hacker friends offered.

  95. 95.

    TenguPhule

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t think Assange knows anything dangerous to Putin that would make killing him necessary.

    Putin would kill him just to enjoy the light draining out of his eyes. Shutting him up at this point would just be a bonus.

  98. 98.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize: They’re already ahead of schedule on sending their appointees through, they’re not holding them up in the Senate anymore. 8 to Obama’s 3 for first year.

  100. 100.

    dogwood

    @Elizabelle:
    Don’t have cable anymore, but every once in awhile when a big story breaks I’ll go on YouTube and watch a little CNN live. First time I saw the apple/banana ad I noticed it was followed by Jack Kingston essentially declaring that apples are fake fruit.

  101. 101.

    TenguPhule

    NBC News talked to more than 15 Republican voters in Alabama and found none are changing their vote:

    Most said they didn’t believe the allegations and some said even if they are true, that wouldn’t sway their vote for him next month because they think Moore is a good man … a man who declined to give his name said, “This is Republican town, man. [Moore] could have killed Obama, and we wouldn’t care.”

    And I’m done trying to compromise with these Assholes.

    Labor Camps, stat.

  102. 102.

    debbie

    @dedc79:

    Interesting. I watched a recent interview with him on 60 Minutes. The man has real character. I don’t think he could create characters as stupid as those in the Oval Office. Plus, his plotlines are clearly superior.

  104. 104.

    Immanentize

    @TenguPhule: So what? I think we should assume they will replace all people retiring. The speed at which they do it is rather irrelevant, I think. In fact, it creates a space for later arguments. I cannot tell you how much I hate this space, because it involves furthering the efforts to denigrate the judiciary…. But it is already is in play.

  105. 105.

    Trentrunner

    @Elizabelle: Never gonna happen. Gorsuch is going nowhere, ever, for anything Trump did. McConnell beat us good on that one, and we’ll be paying for it for 30-40 years.

  106. 106.

    JohnO

    Count me as one who doesn’t believe any of the current criminals in charge will do any real time.

    We are too far gone. Deal with it.

  112. 112.

    Jeffro

    @germy: @Redshift: I am still shocked that they did not leak two dozen different versions of Trumpov’s tax returns…

    … actually makes sense not to do that until and unless a legitimate tax return was released, and then you would want to drop the two dozen fake ones to muddy the waters.

  113. 113.

    germy

    Adam Schiff: “That Donald Trump Jr. and Wikileaks would discuss coordinating their efforts to highlight information damaging to Clinton… demonstrates once again a willingness by the highest levels of the Trump campaign to accept foreign assistance.” pic.twitter.com/EOHcsYiMFr— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 13, 2017

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    @Trentrunner: My dear friend, you were assuring us that we were doomed, doomed you told us, in Virginia, just last week. If memory serves. Democrats were doomed.

    What, about this saga, has come about in any kind of predictable manner? No question that McConnell stole that USSC seat but good, but I am hoping we have some pleasant (for us) surprises ahead. Plus, sounds like Gorsuch is a douche and, while a reliable con-vote, perhaps not the persuadable to his colleagues guy that could do more damage.

    News is pretty grim, but I am always looking for those silver linings.

  115. 115.

    lamh36

    @juliaioffe
    35m35 minutes ago
    More
    I guess now is the time to let you all know that Wikileaks blocked me on Twitter over a year ago.

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    @vhh: Yeah. Mercer has multi-billion dollar taxes owed.

    When I got to that paragraph in Jane Mayer’s “Dark Money”, I did a double take. Jebus.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    @realbtl: Tinker Traitor Stupid Spy. Works for me.

    I am going to love it if they take the Trump criminal cartel out because of EMAILS!

  125. 125.

    Immanentize

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I know. Of course. But when people retire — or don’t, is always in flux. The fact that one can’t “pack” the courts, because of the statutory numbers, is actually a great comfort to me.

  127. 127.

    Elizabelle

    @Mnemosyne: No question. All of them. Robber Baron type actual robbers.

    And the Koch Brothers. Living (palatially) in living hell Kansas Brownbackistan. Villains, all of them. But most Americans don’t know anything about them. Nothing.

  128. 128.

    clay

    @germy: Just as a reminder, here’s Trump’s own CIA director (NYT, I know, I know)

    “It’s time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia,” he said.

    During the presidential campaign, Mr. Pompeo said, “Russian military intelligence, the G.R.U., had used WikiLeaks to release data of U.S. victims that the G.R.U. had obtained through cyberoperations against the Democratic National Committee.”

    He also said that Mr. Assange, who has spent nearly five years holed up in the Ecuadorean embassy in London to avoid extradition on sexual assault charges in Sweden, did not enjoy First Amendment protections.

    “No one has the right to engage in the theft of secrets from America,” Mr. Pompeo said.

    I can’t wait until Senators get to ask him what should be done with Americans who collaborate with “a nonstate hostile intelligence service”.

  129. 129.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Look, neither Assange nor Junior were 14 at the time.

    This was all, like, totally consensual between adults.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    Oh, yay. I didn’t really know about “coordination”. They all seem so dumb and coddled and lazy it’s hard to imagine them working well in a conspiracy effort. Working well anywhere, in anything.

    Raise your hand if you knew Pence was a liar though- that was an easy call.

  132. 132.

    bluefish

    Just tweeted kudos to Ms. Ioffe — amazing reporting for which I’m immensely grateful. This would be the moment I’ve been waiting for. All of them, the lot of them, perped walked out is my ultimate fantasy. Long live the reality dwellers. And the American press.

  133. 133.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle:

    Mercer has multi-billion dollar taxes owed.

    I heard he was going to do a ‘Cliven’ and get mercs to cover him when the FBI comes to arrest him.

  134. 134.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize: Or double checking his exit strategy.

    A lot of people have questions he could answer.

    And a lot more people probably want to shut him up.

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    Didn’t Pence’s own brother recently talk about the fact that Pence was known to “borrow” funds from his campaign for personal expenses?

  136. 136.

    Kay

    Getting ahead of ourselves PERHAPS but I didn’t dare even dream about a scenario where PENCE is implicated too!

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

  137. 137.

    Mike J

    Jonathan Nichols‏ @wvualphasoldier 5 minutes ago

    WikiLeaks spycraft is so juvenile that ya gotta wonder if Roy Moore touched them.

  139. 139.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    They all seem so dumb and coddled and lazy it’s hard to imagine them working well in a conspiracy effort.

    Eventually 10,000 monkeys banging on keyboards did come up with with a literary masterpiece.

    RIchard III, set in 2017.

  142. 142.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

    Gotta catch em all!

    Reverse Pokemon, only they get crammed into those little spheres obviously not big enough to hold all of their body mass.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    .@SenSherrodBrown: If you want to cut taxes for middle class, maybe we ought to cut taxes for the middle class.

    He’s so naive :)

    They don’t want to, Sherrod. They want to pay off their billionaire co-conspirators.

  145. 145.

    Yarrow

    @Kay:

    Getting ahead of ourselves PERHAPS but I didn’t dare even dream about a scenario where PENCE is implicated too!

    He’s implicated. Manafort will give him up.

    What if they get them all? Trump, Pence, Kushner, the horrible Trump children and Sessions? A girl can dream. Who else? There has to be someone in Congress.

    In the line of succession the first one who appears to be clean is Hatch. Next after that is Mattis.

    Been saying for a long time now, the’re all going down. They’re all traitors. All of them. Even the RNC itself is involved.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: Pence has to happen early. Maybe soon? Like Agnew. And Sessions is Mitchell? If Roger Stone is Director, it is likely a revival….

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I don’t care about Bannon as much as other people do. If they stopped covering Bannon for 2 weeks he would melt away into nothing. It’s all bullshit and self-promotion. He’s a nobody.

    A sitting member of Congress would be much better.

  148. 148.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    A sitting member of Congress would be much better.

    Or even a standing one. Let’s not be too picky here.

  151. 151.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    In the line of succession the first one who appears to be clean is Hatch.

    Hatch is dirty. He was throwing shade for some of Trump’s appointees. And looked the other way on several scandals that broke out this year.

  154. 154.

    Elizabelle

    @Yarrow: I’d like them to go down after Dems retake the House.

    And: President Pelosi. Ascended from Speaker of the House, since GOP can’t get it together. Why is that more farfetched than other scenarios?

    And it is morally wrong to leave the Executive branch in GOP hands, if they cheated to game the Electoral College. It would continue the illegitimacy of this sordid, corrupt, criminal administration.

  155. 155.

    Yarrow

    @TenguPhule: Covering for appointees isn’t the same as being a traitor and working for Russia. In any case, he’s very old. I don’t think he’d want to be president. He’s hinting at retiring as Senator and Romney is making noises about running for his seat.

  156. 156.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Hey, you never know! Gorsuck could meet an untimely end. I can’t believe I’m at a place where I’m actively wishing death on a Supreme Court Justice, but goddamn this is what happens when you try to cut off all avenues of peaceful transfer/removal of your government from power and gain a SC seat through brazen treason.

  158. 158.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay: I disagree. Bannon needs to be tried, convicted and executed publicly for crimes against the United States.

  159. 159.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Right. Agreed. They gave him actual power. I don’t care about Stone either. For one thing I’m sick unto death of hearing about his clothes. Who gives a shit what this evil hack wears? I feel like they love him because he’s so perfect for those glowing “evil genius” narratives.

  161. 161.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    Covering for appointees isn’t the same as being a traitor and working for Russia.

    He was covering for appointees who are traitors working for Russia though.

    At this point, guilty until and unless overwhelming proof of innocence is the rule for Republicans.

  162. 162.

    Yarrow

    @Elizabelle: I doubt it’s all going to happen immediately. And we all know Trump will throw everyone under the bus before he goes. It’s going to get very, very ugly. 2018 campaigns are off and running already. Even if Ryan is removed (he will be–he’s a traitor) and another Republican takes his place, that person will only be a caretaker.

  163. 163.

    MCA1

    This is getting rather complex, even for some of us who’ve been following along. Can someone connect the dots here in a simple way?

    Am I missing some intermediate steps or connectivity between 1. Russia hacked DNC e-mails and 2. enlisted Wikileaks to disseminate, and then…X. Wikileaks tips DTJr. off to the launch of a website that seems to have a goal of documenting Trump/Russia connections, and asks if he knows who’s behind it, and X+1. DTJr. doesn’t immediately say “I don’t know why you would tell me about this but it’s inappropriate to be hacking a website, even one that may be operated by political opponents” or something similar?

    Or is that it? Further establishment of, at best, a careless and ignorant disregard for the law and the general rule of “if you hear about someone’s illegal activity, you should call law enforcement instead of engage with them?” Are we talking ignorantly blundering into being part of a conspiracy here, or is there some agency I’m missing in Jr.’s actions?

  166. 166.

    Major Major Major Major

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: True. I more meant that, short of Gorsuch being impeached for not having “good behavior”, whatever that means (his own, not that of the senators and president who put him in power), we have no mechanism for getting rid of him, just like we can’t wave a wand and overturn the rest of the repercussions of the election.

    @Kay: Anybody who mentions his clothes should be forced to give equal time to the large tattoo of Richard Nixon he has on his back.

  167. 167.

    lamh36

    two questions: 1)when is Mueller supposed to be interviewing Hope Hicks 2)when is Chump back from Asia…

  168. 168.

    Yarrow

    @lamh36:

    @juliaioffe
    Follow Follow @juliaioffe
    More
    We’ve now updated the story with @ByronTau’s great catch: @realDonaldTrump tweeted about the release of Podesta’s emails *15 minutes* after @Wikileaks wrote to @DonaldJTrumpJr about it.

    There’s a Russian who tweeted at Trump to talk about things and he’d do it at the next campaign stop. They were directing him. Wikileaks was just another avenue. As Adam says, penetration at all levels.

  170. 170.

    Kay

    We have a conservative county court judge here- I have known him a long time. He retired last year- aged out- but for a decade he has been teasing me about being a Democrat -“there’s one!- the joke is “one”- get it? I saw him today he’s a VJ (visiting judge) and so I asked him (nicely) if he was happy with Trump. He no longer wants to talk about politics :)

    They’re really SUCH cowards. I wouldn’t have given him that much shit. I just want him to admit this is a train wreck. I would admit if Trump were a Democrat! They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

  171. 171.

    Yarrow

    @Corner Stone:

    Bannon needs to be tried, convicted and executed publicly for crimes against the United States.

    Yep. Actions have consequences. Tick tock, motherfuckers.

  172. 172.

    Schlemazel

    @germy:
    So they could alter them & feed them to some really gullible dipstick who would trumpet his or her great coup and then be proven as fake as a TANG service record thereby ending any discussion of hair furor’s returns

  174. 174.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne:

    Hell in my neck of the woods, they are still certain that Hillary will be indicted any day now. I don’t see them accepting the results of a Mueller investigation if it is anything other than Hillary and Obama going to jail.

    Also, too I’m considering learning to use a shotgun.

  175. 175.

    Schlemazel

    @germy:
    Except Dump would sell all his children down river if it meant he skates. It would be sad if the kids are too stupid to see that coming

  177. 177.

    Yarrow

    @MCA1: The conspiracy is that Russia owns the Trump family and Trump organization. Jr. himself said they have a ton of Russian money. They have been laundering money for Russia for years. That’s against the law. Then Trump decides to run for President and suddenly Russia has leverage. They tell the entire Trump team what to do and when to do it or they’ll make public all the info about their illegal money-laundering. And the Trump team does what they says.

    Mueller has the goods. He’s just letting everyone involved hang themselves by saying things that aren’t true in public. He’ll be happy to use those lies in court. Or use them as leverage for the next person he’s dealing with.

  182. 182.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay:

    That’s what I’ve observed. The hairdresser who was screaming before the election about Hillary having BLM at her convention now never mentions politics, and it’s as if Trump doesn’t even exist.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

    That’s the strategy my one Trumper relative has chosen. Donald who? seems to be her plan for the next family reunion.

    @MomSense:

    Ugh. That’s scary. As I learned from Roger and Me, a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave. Or you could do the classic rock salt load if you wanted something less lethal.

  186. 186.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize:

    I’m pretty sure that Bobby Three Sticks has a lot of intelligence. The thing that was largely lost during the hair on fire discussions of how the terrible US was surveillance people like Merkle, was that all of our allies are surveilling us. I’m sure the communications of everyone in Manafort and Flynn’s circles were captured. Of course they were listening to more than just those two. The point is that I bet Mueller has a ton of intelligence and his team will methodically gonafter each person involved.

  187. 187.

    Yarrow

    Isn’t “conspiracy” something you can be charged with and declared guilty of, while “collusion” is neither of those things? If so, let’s start saying the Republicans and Trump are guilty of conspiracy because that’s something they can go to prison for.

  189. 189.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @MCA1: That’s pretty much it. Ioffe doesn’t connect the dots well in her piece. She has now added a connection that Byron Tau found and tweeted:

    “Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

    Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”

    I would like to see the emails themselves so I can make a timeline, although Axios has one apparently derived from the Ioffe article.

    On the one hand, this is circumstantial evidence in the legal sense. On the other, the sheer numbers of Russian contacts and Don Junior’s willingness to go along with anyone who offers him dirt on Clinton, no thoughts that maybe what they’re doing is illegal, suggest that something is badly wrong here. Mueller’s operation has more, and I think they are trying to produce airtight cases to bring to the grand juries. This isn’t that.

    But politically Ryan and McConnell are ultimately corrupt in tolerating this so they can get their tax redistributions to gazillionaires.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    One of the weirdest things about Trump Jr.’s contact with WikiLeaks: He told Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner and Brad Parscale about it….Why?

    That was actually smart. The more people he brings in the better. For him. If it goes bad. It’s literally the only good thing about the Trumps- they always do what’s best for them personally.

    This is why I didn’t believe the scope of “conspiracy”- they’re all so selfish. They can’t work with other people. They work for themselves. Only.

  194. 194.

    lamh36

    ETA: Presser already happened:

    elainaplott
    8m8 minutes ago
    More
    This is bizarre. Press conference was organized just in the last hour. He and his wife gave those brief statements and he took no questions.

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    They’re planning on pretending this isn’t happening.

    To be fair, they did this with Bush Jr.

    And it worked out for them.

  199. 199.

    Elizabelle

    @Yarrow: I think that is what it is too. Russian money laundering, Russians pretty much holding up the Trump Organization and Trump properties.

  200. 200.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne:
    One of my friends has quite the collection of rifles but the range is too far for where I live. I am pretty good with a bow and arrow but that is too silent. I want the dramatic sound of cocking the shotgun.
    @Baud:

    Thankfully not, but we do have lots of Fox watching lobstermen. My mom does live near Nina and she is also a Bernie bot. Ugh.

  202. 202.

    lamh36

    @elainaplott
    Follow Follow @elainaplott
    More
    Moore’s wife speaks. Says, “He has never one time lifted a finger to me…he’s godly, he’s loving, and everyone in this community knows it.”
    5:34 PM – 13 Nov 2017

  203. 203.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @MCA1: This is a good question, not yet fully answered.

    Are we talking ignorantly blundering into being part of a conspiracy here, or is there some agency I’m missing in Jr.’s actions?

    The emails that Ioffe has tend to argue against ignorantly blundering. It could have started out that way, but after some point, even Don Junior had to have figured out what was going down.

    It’s a central question I have, and it may not be answered for some time. Who knew what and when did they know it? How did all those flyover country bumpkin types like Jeff Sessions and Sam Clovis get connected to the Russians? Was it their initiative or the Russians’? Are they really so stupid they couldn’t tell they were being recruited? And where did Carter Page and George Pappadopoulos come from?

  208. 208.

    No Drought No More

    The suggestion that Australia be asked to nominate Assange as its ambassador to the U.S. is as cute as Enron employees bragging about raping all the Aunt Millies in California while they stole her money.

    No mercy for any of the fuckers, either, not this time. America can’t afford it. Republican party scum must be severely punished this time around, unlike the republicans of Watergate, or of Iran-Contra, or those that successfully plotted the unholy War in Iraq; this time they must be imprisoned, or if pardoned, hounded every day of the rest of their lives as traitors to their country, and everything good it stands for. Kumbaya? Nyet!

  209. 209.

    lamh36

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore: This is absolutely false…I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore: This has nothing to do with reality.

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore’s wife speaks. Says, “He has never one time lifted a finger to me…he’s godly, he’s loving, and everyone in this community knows it.”

    @elainaplott
    12m12 minutes ago
    More
    Moore’s wife: “It’s ugly. It’s politics. It’s the ugliest politics I’ve ever been in in my life.”

    @elainaplott
    11m11 minutes ago
    More
    This is bizarre. Press conference was organized just in the last hour. He and his wife gave those brief statements and he took no questions.

    @elainaplott
    11m11 minutes ago
    More
    Which makes it, well, not a press conference. It was open to Alabama outlets only. I’m truly unclear on what the purpose of this was.

    @elainaplott
    7m7 minutes ago
    More
    To be clear: Moore says he has never met a woman whose yearbook appears to have a message from him with his signature.

  210. 210.

    Schlemazel

    @Mnemosyne:
    If you pull a gun on someone, particularly if they are attacking your home, you better be ready & able to kill your target. No to rock salt & no to an unloaded weapon. If they are attacking the odds are they are armed so you are now dead because they are not scared off. Also, do not believe the movies, getting hit with a shotgun blast is not going to knock the recipient back 5 feet, action=reaction. If they are true wingnuts they may be armored.

    If you are going to play out these scenarios understand what you are going to be doing & how it actually works. It might be better to run if you can’t kill.

  213. 213.

    Mike J

    @Mnemosyne:

    a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave. Or you could do the classic rock salt load if you wanted something less lethal.

    You shouldn’t threaten someone with a gun unless you’re prepared to carry through with your threat. They may be armed too.

  214. 214.

    Patricia Kayden

    @lamh36: Otherwise known as trying to lie his behind out of this mess. He’s already admitted to asking mothers to date their daughters which suggests that he has a propensity for dating underage girls. I can’t see him squiggling out of this one.

  215. 215.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne:

    As I learned from Roger and Me, a shotgun is a great home defense weapon because you may not even have to load it to scare someone off — you can just rack it and tell them to leave.

    No. No. No.

    If you’re not willing to kill, don’t brandish a weapon.

    Once you escalate, its for keeps.

  217. 217.

    MCA1

    @Yarrow: No, I know all that backstory. What I don’t quite see is the specifics at play here, with someone at Wikileaks e-mailing Jr. about a new website that’s going to be critical about his farther (and that specific backstory), and asking if he has any “comments.” It’s certainly weird that he would respond by saying “Off the record” (probably meant “off the top of my head” but he’s an idiot) he didn’t recognize the names of who was behind that site, and saying he’d “ask around” about it.

    Are you saying that Russian handlers were reaching out through Wikileaks to ask for help in destroying/discrediting this nascent putintrump.org group? Using coded, neutral sounding language like “any comments” and such? It’s of a piece with later asking for tax returns and other things to combat the growing “Wikileaks is a shill for Putin” narrative? And is made more plausible by this other instance of Drumpf Sr. tweeting about Podesta’s e-mails almost immediately after Wikileaks had e-mailed Jr. about them?

    The Veselnitskaya/Manafort/Jr./Kush meeting seems straightforward enough, with the Magnitsky Act being everyone’s cover story. This one just confuses me a bit.

  219. 219.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    At least she voted for Hillz so we just refrain from discussing him. I actually think she has a bit of a crush. Ew.

  220. 220.

    Kay

    @lamh36:

    Moore’s wife should stop stealing from donors to that bogus charity and get a real job. She’s a crook too and that was revealed before we found out all this crap about her husband.

    The Foundation for Moral Law’s website routinely promoted Moore’s speaking engagements and his book, “So Help Me God: The Ten Commandments, Judicial Tyranny, and the Battle for Religious Freedom.” In his last two years as president, as fundraising dwindled, Moore’s compensation amounted to about a third of the contributions to the group, tax filings show.
    The charity has employed at least two of Moore’s children, although their compensation is not reflected in tax filings. Moore’s wife, Kayla, who is now president, was paid a total of $195,000 over three years through 2015.

    The whole family were living off this sucker gravy train. They’re bad people. All of them.

  221. 221.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: they are hoping that somehow it all peters out with them (Republicans, white folks, take your pick) still on top and in charge

    Up to us to make sure they never forget … at least not up to the limits of Americans usual attention spans

  222. 222.

    lamh36

    @TenguPhule: IKR…like lady…no one is talking about Moore “lifting a finger” against you…what wasn’t said in the presser was that Moore was dropping out.

  223. 223.

    lamh36

    Love to hear what BJ lawyers and those in the know think about this…

    @rgoodlaw
    Follow Follow @rgoodlaw
    More
    Everyone reading the story on Don Trump Jr’s emails with Wikileaks, should read former White House Counsel Bob Bauer on when coordination of campaign activities with a foriegn national (think: Wikileaks) is a federal crime:
    https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/930193646816776193

  226. 226.

    TenguPhule

    @Major Major Major Major: I understand kidnapping and rendition to black sites for lengthy interrogation is now customary. Just because they’ve been pardoned of known crimes doesn’t mean they can’t be sifted for useful counter intelligence. And if they’re broken in the process, that would be a bonus.

  228. 228.

    Corner Stone

    Along with the Mercers, Kochs, Bezos, Joe Ricketts and Adelsons. We need to include the Zuckerbergs and Sheryl Sandberg when we start confiscating wealth.

  231. 231.

    lamh36

    @bentaub91
    Follow Follow @bentaub91
    More
    “The general knowledge at the time when I moved here was that this guy is a lawyer cruising the mall for high-school dates.” Read @charlesbethea on Roy Moore’s sleazy visits to the Gadsen Mall:

  235. 235.

    MCA1

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for both of those responses, Cheryl. Glad to know I’m not way out in left field.

    It goes hand in hand with one of the Great Questions of our age: Is the Trump gang that stupid, that corrupt, that arrogant, or some combination of the foregoing? Their levels of complicity and the point at which they individually realized (if ever) that they’d been compromised and recruited, will be interesting to learn.

    I’ve long suspected that “there’s no collusion” has always meant “I didn’t realize they were using me this way.” Because they’re venal and corrupt, but also because they have a fatal case of Dunning-Krueger and assumed the world of international relations and politics and law operated the same way their previous worlds did. Which is why (among a hundred other lessons that America should but won’t learn from last year) we should insist on some basic experience in government and public service before you’re considered a viable candidate for f’ing President of the United States.

  240. 240.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Major Major Major Major:

    And what, pray tell, is the CIA’s “job” when it comes to American citizens who have been pardoned of all crimes?

    Don’t be naive. And don’t make me agree with TenguPhule!

  241. 241.

    Jeffro

    Flake just said that if the choice is between Roy Moore and a Democrat, “ no doubt I’d vote for the Democrat”

  243. 243.

    Mnemosyne

    @Schlemazel:

    I’m assuming that the people MomSense are dealing with are pathetic cowards who wouldn’t expect her to have a weapon at all, but point taken.

  247. 247.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: Medicare for all and the expansion of Medicaid were recently unspeakable topics. They have not yet come to fruition but people are actually speaking/writing about the possibility.
    You can only push it and see if it takes roots.

  248. 248.

    Baud

    @Jeffro:

    Flake just said that if the choice is between Roy Moore and a Democrat, “ no doubt I’d vote for the Democrat”

    As one should if it were Jeff Flake versus a Democrat.

  253. 253.

    burnspbesq

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’d like to see him hauled off in the dead of night by a British or American squad of law enforcement goons. He needs to be pumped dry of info.

    Where is Rainbow Six when you really need it?

  254. 254.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: When was the last time you heard elected officials speak approvingly about it, on the record, in the last 30 years?

  255. 255.

    George

    I’m late to the game on this particular thread, but I just wanted to add: They all need to burn. Every last one of them.

  259. 259.

    Corner Stone

    That’s my point. It has become a topic to discuss over the last 10 years or so, after two or more generations poo-pooing the very notion and ridiculing anyone who mentioned it.
    Redistribution of wealth is a topic whose time has come. To start talking up, at least.

  263. 263.

    burnspbesq

    @No Drought No More:

    cute as Enron employees bragging about raping all the Aunt Millies in California while they stole her money.

    I’m a Californian, and I saw that movie in a theater across from Lincoln Center. Fuckers thought it was hilarious.

  264. 264.

    cmorenc

    @Betty Cracker:

    @Tom Q: I definitely agree it’s the biggest political scandal in American history. I fervently hope that it will take Trump down. No other outcome is acceptable.

    Keep in mind that if Trum goes down, first Pence and then the Granny-Starver Ryan are next in line of presidential succession. That makes it harder to decide what kind of outcome to root for, ALTHOUGH an inside-straight sort of positive outcome is if all three of the following come true in timely coincidence:
    1) The dems retake the house in 2018 and the new congress has taken office;
    2) Trump doesn’t get actually forced out until after event #1;
    3) Pence gets taken down at the same time as Trump.

  266. 266.

    realbtl

    @NotMax: Nah, here often, comment seldom. BTW I’ll be out on the Big Island early Feb, a temporary escape from Montana winter.

  268. 268.

    dogwood

    @eric:
    The remedy for Gorsuch is to not have 7 million voters cast ballots for clowns like Johnson and Stein. Unfortunately, they will do it again.

  270. 270.

    Patricia Kayden

    @lamh36:

    To be clear: Moore says he has never met a woman whose yearbook appears to have a message from him with his signature.

    So she forged his signature? Is that really what he is arguing? Wowzers! He must really think we were all born yesterday morning.

  272. 272.

    J R in WV

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Because it isn’t really a transparency organization, it’s a stooge for the Russians, speaking of Assange and GG, who are the only people who matter when talking about Wikileaks.

    How do I score? and what’s the grading curve?

  273. 273.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Tom Q:

    but it’s like some in the press are waiting for Steve Doocy’s concurrence.

    I’m waiting for Steve Doocy to get in trouble for sexual harassment, myself. May never happen since Gretchen Carlson agreed to a gag order in the settlement over Ailes, and the worst he did may have been participation in a hostile work environment. But it sure seems like some kind of story there got buried.

  274. 274.

    J R in WV

    @MomSense:

    I recommend a 20 gauge, less recoil, just as much impact. Pump Ithaca Featherlight is what wife gave me for christmas many years ago. For home defense you want an open choke, to let the load spread out quickly. Use single ought buckshot loads.

    The sound of a pump shotgun being pumped will have a bigger effect than actually shooting most guns. Everyone knows that metallic clacking sound.

  276. 276.

    J R in WV

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Not executing/murdering them. Holding them prisoner in an iron box in the tropics and interrogating them often on no particular schedule, on a diet of cornmeal and salt. And warm water to drink. And a bucket for waste. Dark. Noisy. No sense of time passing.

    I think on a diet of just corn the lack of a particular amino acid causes visions… they were expected of a shaman on a vision quest in a Kiva 1000 years ago. Not so much from a crooked politician…

    I don’t really approve of the death penalty, but these guys…. I dunno. Something serious needs to happen to them, regardless of pardons. Or else others will do it again, as was said above.

  277. 277.

    SgrAstar

    @Corner Stone: We have to confiscate the wealth from ALL of them. Gates, Bezos, Laurene Jobs, Benioff, there are dozens and we need to tax it away. No hereditary oligarchs allowed. None. NONE. Disclosure: I founded a company and made quite a bit of coin. I’m giving all of it away. No bequests to family members.

  278. 278.

    Corner Stone

    @SgrAstar: I agree. We set some super high number like $1B then confiscate all the rest of it. Then when they pass we tax anything over $10M at a 90% rate. No loopholes.
    I don’t care if their heirs are in charge of charitable foundations setup before they pass. But if they don’e meet a minimum guideline they get audited and penalized. No slushfunds. Do good with the money or get it taken.

  279. 279.

    Doc H

    Hilarious

    @ChrisCuomo: Why’d he wait?

    @JeffreyToobin: Because he’s not that bright.

    Cuomo (as an aside): Wasn’t expecting that.

    Toobin: All of Don Jr’s behavior suggests someone who is really not a terrifically intelligent person

  280. 280.

    hugely

    @Julia Grey: not that at all – if DJT Jr provides WikiLeaks a tax return they basically are giving away kompromat for free. Basically it was a ploy to see how stupid these mother fuckers are. Anyway dead thread

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