All the rats are running scared:
Donald Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon is keeping the door open to ditching Roy Moore as the sexual-assault allegations against the Alabama Republican Senate candidate continue to pile up.
Publicly, the Trump confidant and Breitbart chairman has stood behind Moore, who is now accused of attempted rape of a 16-year-old girl. Bannon has also railed against what he and his allies dub “fake news” and the GOP establishment for trying to push Moore out of the race.
“This is just another desperate attempt by Mitch McConnell to keep power, and it’s not going to work,” Bannon said on Monday’s episode of Breitbart News Daily. “You know, people in Alabama see through this. The good folks of Alabama are going to be able to weigh and measure this… This is an orchestrated hit from the Uniparty.”
But over the past few days, Bannon has begun privately taking the temperature of those in his inner circle to see what they think of the Moore allegations and to get their sense of how to proceed, according to four knowledgeable sources. Late last week, the Breitbart chairman said, “I will put him in a grave myself,” if he determines that Moore was lying to him about the numerous accusations, a source close to Bannon relayed.
Then there’s this fucking fraud:
Fox News host Sean Hannity has given up defending Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore of Alabama, telling viewers Tuesday night the judge has “24 hours” to explain conflicting answers to the sexual misconduct allegations against him.
“You must immediately and fully come up with a satisfactory explanation for your inconsistencies,” Hannity said. “You must remove any doubt. If he can’t do this, then Judge Moore needs to get out of this race.”
Hannity’s escalated remarks came days after critics bashed the conservative host for appearing to defend Moore and suggesting that the accusations against him might be false. The wave of criticism prompted coffeemaker company Keurig and other sponsors to say they would no longer be advertising on Hannity’s Fox News show.
Getting punched in the advertisers sure woke Hannity up.
But you gotta love these guys and what they are doing to the Republicans. They get their nutters to come out and fuck up the primaries for them, because Luther Strange would have rolled to an electoral win, and then when they get some knuckle-dragging retrograde child molester in the race, run for the hills.
JPL
But what about Clinton? Take that you liberals.
Jeffro
Could the fever be breaking??
.
.
BWAH-Ha-Ha-Ha, of course not! They’d love to stick with the child molester, they just don’t have the numbers. Kind of like these nearly empty Nazi rallies…
dmsilev
Meanwhile, Moore isn’t going anywhere soon:
Have fun nailing yourself to that cross, Roy!
germy
I call it the Paladino Effect.
Rick Lazio was all set to cruise into the governor’s mansion. The time was right, he was ambitious, he had a big machine behind him, and he knew Andy Cuomo was unpopular.
And then krazy karl paladino won the nomination.
germy
I saw the letter Moore’s lawyers sent to his local newspaper.
It’s full of misspelled words, grammar mistakes. They give the media ONE WEEK to apologize.
PPCLI
Every Alabama member of Congress needs to be asked directly and repeatedly if they support Moore. Mo Brooks has already gone on the record as pro-pedophile, let’s get the others on record too.
Soonergrunt
Some VP of Advertising or Finance has had a talk with Hannity and explained how much money his show is losing, and how they can find somebody to fill the time slot.
Bannon got a call from Sheldon Adelson’s executive assistant delivering the bad news there.
These are not principled men. it’s money. Nothing more or less.
They’re going through the motions of pretending to give a shit so that their followers don’t get whiplash and start to wonder, but other than that, it’s already done.
Scotius
That was a super genius idea on Sean Hannity’s part to encourage his fans to go after Keurig. Wouldn’t you just love to be the person responsible for trying to book new advertisers for any Hannity show now?
Jumbo76
I don’t think it was the advertisers that got Hannity. I just think that word went out that Moore was done-zo. If Bannon is about to jump, too, then it makes sense
germy
So I see Robert Mugabe has been taken into custody by his army. They insist it’s not a coup.
Robert was planning on installing his wife after his retirement. That might have been just too much for the military.
burnspbesq
@germy:
The Alabama bar exam isn’t doing a very good job of weeding out unfit candidates.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
These guys really thought they could control this movement. I don’t know why they thought that; they could see for themselves what kind of people they were dealing with, but they thought they could ride this thing forever. Well, no, maybe not all of them. Some of them thought they could ride this forever, but a lot of them–I think–knew this was going to end sooner and later, and most likely badly, but they thought somehow that when the train crashed, they’d have gotten off themselves.
germy
@Scotius: also Sean was tweeting the names and photos of various CEOs of companies who’d stopped advertising.
Not that he wants his fans to do anything wrong to them, but you know, just for informational purposes.
danielx
There’s nothing like self-interest to get your priorities in order, if you’re a Republican dependent on advertising dollars. Works even for that smarmy little fuck Hannity.
See Mourdock, Richard; Akin, Todd…
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@danielx:
And Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell, and…
germy
@burnspbesq:
The soft bigotry of low expectations
schrodingers_cat
Even in conservative India*, where arranged marriages are still the norm, a greater than 5 year difference gets a side eye.
Oh and that was the case even 70 years ago, there is famous British era movie where a young woman in her 20s is married to an old man in his 50s by her father because of difficult financial circumstances. She refuses to let him so much as touch her, and walks out on the marriage at the end of the movie.
*speaking of first marriages and the people I know, who are mostly city/suburb dwelling and well educated.
danielx
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
And the hits just keep on coming.
Nicole
I was reading a piece by a sociologist who speculated that the US is turning into a 3-tier society, with the elite at the top, the middle class eking by and a large population of poor who will be kept in line with a combination of things, including an increasingly militarized police. I think it’s not a bad hypothesis, except that I think the US, with its steadfast refusal to offer anything resembling a real safety net (except to the elderly, because they vote), will find it harder to control the unwashed masses than they might think- see the sheer number of religious nutjobs the Republicans are now having to deal with, when they thought they could manage to lure in the Evangelicals to their side without having to actually see any true believers get elected. Which, no biggie for the wealthy; they hide in their gated communities and have things brought to them. For the rest of us, it’ll suck.
Saudi Arabia at least got that as long as they had money to give out to the unwashed masses, they could keep everything relatively quiet. Worked for awhile, anyway.
Roger Moore
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
The underlying problem for the Republicans is what happened to their leadership. The older generation like McTurtle and Boehner were cynics who knowingly lied to the rubes to win elections. The younger generation, like Ryan, are rubes who grew up listening to the cynical liars and believed their like of bullshit.
MJS
As hundreds of imbeciles look upon their smashed Keurigs and think to themselves, “My God, what have I done?”
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Yes the TPers have drunk their own kool-aid or they are afraid of their base or both.
JPL
@Roger Moore: It’s not their grandfathers party. Reagan forever changed the party. Rather than paying the bills, they now feel the top one percent earned their way to the top. Winning is everything.
satby
Bet there’s still more that’s going to come out and they’re trying to bail and look “principled” before it does. Sadly for them, that ship sailed before Roy Moore even became a judge, much less a Senate Candidate.
schrodingers_cat
I saw a part of the Snooze Hour last night, Whory Woodruff was covering Bannon in the most fawning manner. I have a suggestion for the producers of the Snooze why don’t they fire Shields and Brooks and get Bannon and Richard Spencer to do their political analysis. Drop the fucking facade, already and top Fox News, like you know you want to.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
One week to apologise — failing which, what? It sounds like Moore is making a threat he can’t make good on.
Roger Moore
@Roger Moore: @schrodingers_cat: @JPL:
The more I think about it, though, the more I realize this is only partially true. It’s true that the elites used to know what they were saying on economic matters was bullshit, I don’t think that’s true of the white supremacy. White supremacy has been baked into the system for a very long time, and assholes like Nixon and Reagan didn’t have to cynically fake it to convince their supporters.
lgerard
@germy:
The point of the letter seems to be that the newspaper was wrong when it claimed that “five women were victims of sexual misconduct” by Roy.
Roy’s lawyers claim it was only two.
Great argument!
Patricia Kayden
@dmsilev: Wearing his religious piety like a robe to deflect from his misconduct may yet work for Moore in Alabama. Most of us can see right through his charade though. The Party of Family Values and Morality, indeed.
gene108
Will be interesting to see, if the MSM will still treat Republicans and conservatives as the “family values” party after Trump and Moore.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108: Yes they are whores so they will do what they are paid to do.
Yarrow
John kind of stomped on David’s post below. Everyone PLEASE call your Senators about this abomination of a tax bill. They added a provision to repeal the individual mandate, which will gut the ACA. Call your Republican Senators but also your Dem Senators. We need to make a bunch of noise.
Also, if you think Medicare will be there, ha ha, they’re coming for it too.
OzarkHillbilly
-Josh Moon
Patricia Kayden
@Jumbo76: Until the election is held in December, we won’t know if Moore is done. He still has his vehement supporters in Alabama, including Evangelical voters. I assume that if Moore wins, Hannity and Bannon will immediately jump right back on his bandwagon. Many of the supposedly “Never Trump” folks have eased their way into the Trump is alright camp since the presidential election so we already have a precedent for how this may all shake out.
burnspbesq
Trent Garmon’s CV, presented without comment.
https://www.liddonlaw.com/trent-garmon/
Amir Khalid
@dmsilev:
These people who run believing that God wants them in Congress — what happens with them when God changes his mind and they lose? Do they reproach themselves for failing God? Do they have crises of faith?
germy
@lgerard: The lawyer’s letter also claims that the signature on the yearbook doesn’t match Roy’s handwriting or vernacular.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/14/roy_moore_s_lawyer_sent_a_apocalypse_of_a_letter_threatening_local_media.html
germy
@burnspbesq: Impressive!
Roger Moore
@gene108:
Of course they will. The narrative of exactly how that will work is already being crafted.
bemused
@dmsilev:
That was one creepy video. I also noticed that the amens from this congregation sounded predominately male.
Corner Stone
@MJS:
Beat #1
Beat #2
Beat #3
“Oh, well. Shouldna had the French piece of shit machine in the first damn place!!”
“Now, where’s muh ballot?”
Jeffro
@germy: the Delaware witch lady would beg to differ: it’s called the O’Donnell effect
Corner Stone
@bemused:
All they can think of is 15 and 16 yr old girls. Moore is their hero.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
This is where a belief is Satan is very helpful. If they don’t get what they think God wants/has promised them, they can blame it on Satan interfering rather than them misunderstanding God’s desires or Him deserting them.
dr. bloor
@burnspbesq: It’s all single-option multiple choice, and they have the only bubble scanner in the country that reads crayon marks.
bemused
@Scotius:
This is how dumb Hannity is, not to see advertisers fleeing for him getting cozy with a pedophile.
Corner Stone
@gene108:
Let me ask you this. Who is the wonkiest wonk you know? Who is the policy wonk all the media want to talk to about wonky policy?
OzarkHillbilly
@Roger Moore:
You mean Satan can defeat their omnipotent Gawd?
MJS
@burnspbesq: He was the “Chaplin” for the Christian Legal Society. I guess Robert Downey Jr wasn’t available. But who was the Buster Keating? Harold Lloyd?
Edit – Keaton, not Keating.
J R in WV
@bemused:
Male Amens may foretell how the women folk will vote when in that private voting booth. It only takes a moment to select the (shudder) DEMONcrat, er, uh, I meant the Democratic Senate candidate and all around good lawyer for Alabama, Doug Jones.
The Moar You Know
Bannon’s only agenda is to destroy America. To this end, a successful Moore campaign is only a good thing. He knows goddamn well Moore is guilty, that’s why he’s pushing him so hard in the first place.
dr. bloor
@burnspbesq: It looks like you found Harlan Hill’s dad.
dr. bloor
@germy: So basically, he has CTE after getting his bell rung repeatedly by some of the best in the game.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Amir Khalid:
After the week, there will be a really shabbily drafted complaint, full of typos and handwritten corrections. It will contain at least three neglected paragraphs with statements to the effect of “and as the direct and proximate cause of the negligence of the Defendant, it inflicted bodily injury to the Plaintiff which is ascertainable to a reasonable medical and/or chiropractic certainty and which justifies the imposition of damages for medical and/or chiropractic expenses, lost wages and loss of consortium, all in an amount in excess of the minimal jurisdictional requirements of this Court.”
burnspbesq
Please let this action be filed, and let the video of Moore’s deposition become public.
Villago Delenda Est
@JPL: Matt Yglesias is so busy doing a Broder on Clinton it’s dizzying.
bystander
Say what you will about Facebook, but it just afforded me the opportunity to refer to Trump as the “Midas de merde” on Emmanuel Macron’s page. And a tip of the hat to the source, our own Betty Cracker. I’m headed back to Merkel’s page.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@burnspbesq:
Regent U for his “Masters in Theology”? ???
Given timing, he might have known Monica Goodling. Jim David steered a shitload of unqualified Regent people into the Bush II Administration.
rikyrah
Another unarmed black man #LyndoJones was shot by cop, this time for sitting in his own car. He survived but only after being chained to his bed for 6 days in the ICU without being charged with a crime. This is now so normal that it hasn’t even registered with national media. pic.twitter.com/iim28WAD9T
— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) November 15, 2017
This case is one of the craziest things I’ve seen in my entire life.
They literally kept this man chained up in the hospital until two black attorneys showed up. Then they dropped all charges. https://t.co/ym86KK945L
— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) November 15, 2017
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@burnspbesq:
The best liveblog of it would probably be on Quatloos.
bemused
@Corner Stone:
The more rightwing and conservative a fundamentalist becomes directly correlates with increased perversion and immorality.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Amir Khalid:
No, they blame the Godless heathens who thwarted God’s will.
different-church-lady
@burnspbesq: If we go by recent events, the letter might have been written by his wife.
JPL
@Villago Delenda Est: Why not Trump, after all he is the current president, or at least pretends to be. It’s so confusing.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Villago Delenda Est:
I don’t think I can speak for anybody else, but I wish Bill Clinton would just go away. I know a lot of the sexual shit people have been hitting him on for 40 years is horseshit, but the Broadrick thing is enough to make me want him to go away for good. I believe her, and he needs to shut up and keep off the cameras. Ideally, he should own up to what he did and show some remorse, but I think that’s too much to hope for.
scav
@Corner Stone:
Moore bookends Trump on their Anxious Man shrine of heroes. Pussy grabbing is what Made America Great and relationships with little girl is what Makes Alabama Sweet.
Davebo
@germy: Lawyer..
Don “Lemon Limey”.
Ridnik Chrome
@germy: Agree with your overall point, but disagree about Lazio. He may have thought he was a sure thing, but I doubt too many other people did. Remember, he’s the guy who lost to Hillary Clinton by a landslide in 2000. He would certainly have given Cuomo a better fight than Paladino, but he wouldn’t have beaten him.
@MJS: Upvote.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@rikyrah:
Jones is about to suffer an extreme countertop inspection.
Boatboy_srq
@PPCLI: IIRC the entire delegation has either supported Moore explicitly, or supported the GOTea ticket regardless of who’s on it.
Boatboy_srq
Most of Wingnutistan needs punching in the advertisers. Nothing like cutting off their gravy train to make them either less bvgfvck or less relevant.
Boatboy_srq
@rikyrah: Forget it, rikyrah, it’s Texas.
rikyrah
CEOs undermine the rationale behind the Republican tax-cut push
11/15/17 09:20 AM
By Steve Benen
America’s business leaders have been on Trump administration officials’ minds lately. On Sunday, for example, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin defended the Republican tax plan by boasting, “Lots of people, lots of CEOs, have had input into this.”
A few days earlier, Gary Cohn, Donald Trump’s top economic adviser, told CNBC’s John Harwood, “The most excited group out there are big CEOs, about our tax plan.”
Part of the problem with this is that, according to the plan’s Republican architects, the target audience for the plan are middle-class families, not “big CEOs.”
But the other part of the problem is that the claim may not even be accurate. The Washington Post reported yesterday:
aimai
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Oh, for fuck’s sake. If there had been anything in it the Republicans would have managed to throw him in jail for it. What is the guy supposed to do? Kill himself?
JPL
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): How can he go away with some networks still talk about him. It’s the same with Hillary. Someone I know mentioned Hillary, and I said is she president?
Just One More Canuck
@germy: @burnspbesq: I played hockey on the same team as a guy whose brother was a first round pick in the NHL. Should I put that in my bio?
lgerard
@germy:
Unless they can show that al.com fabricated the yearbook inscription, or were aware of its fabrication, they are threatening the wrong people.
Also note that these guys are personnel injury lawyers. Roy must have seen their ad one night on the local Fox affiliate
rikyrah
Republicans keep uniting disparate health care stakeholders
11/15/17 10:04 AM
By Steve Benen
As of yesterday afternoon, Senate Republicans decided the best way to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations is to also repeal the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate. As the Congressional Budget Office has already told lawmakers, this would destabilize the market, raise premiums, and lead 13 million Americans to lose their coverage.
But the CBO isn’t the only player in the game warning Republicans about the dangers of their scheme.
The Moar You Know
@Soonergrunt: Have not seen you in a very long time, glad you’re still among the living.
rikyrah
@CarronIPhillips: If the editors at @GQ and @Time get it, then why hasn’t the editorial staff at Sports Illustrated figured it out yet? https://t.co/RIS5SNZXjB
— New York Daily News (@NYDailyNews) November 15, 2017
rikyrah
Her sister, who is also a stunner- is a vlogger on youtube – the channel is Jamie and Nikki
A real life doll https://t.co/TylisB3wKl
— Matthew A. Cherry (@MatthewACherry) November 15, 2017
?? pic.twitter.com/dpbpSERjCN
— Duckie Thot (@duckie_thot) November 14, 2017
That face. Her skin. Her skin!
My God, she’s blessed.
— Dudette (@Dudette9t9) November 15, 2017
The Moar You Know
@Nicole: Said sociologist is wrong. The US WAS a three-tier society, the obvious goal is to turn it into a two-tiered one. It’s going well.
lgerard
@dmsilev:
The wrong message is being sent to the believers here. The message should be:
GOD BROUGHT FORTH THESE WOMEN IN ORDER TO WARN YOU AGAINST VOTING FOR ROY MOORE
rikyrah
UH HUH
If the AG can’t name ONE org that’s a “black identity extremist” group, we’re faced with one reality — the FBI & DOJ are reverting back to a time when citizens were surveilled based on the color of their skin and their level of activism exercising their first amendment right. pic.twitter.com/7Gw2FIphqx
— Congressmember Bass (@RepKarenBass) November 14, 2017
rikyrah
A 26 year old lesbian flipped an OK state senate seat today by only 34 votes.
Rule #1 of 2017 politics: We know nothing. https://t.co/0ppQIvNUOx
— Amanda Litman (@amandalitman) November 15, 2017
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@aimai:
No, he doesn’t need to kill himself, but he needs to shut up and go away. He needs to stop giving speeches, now more than ever, as more and more cases of sexual assault and harassment come to light. We don’t need a guy with a credible rape claim against him as one of our symbols. Thanks to his lack of control over his behavior, we’re going to have to deal with this shit while we try to get all the creeps out of the party. The least he could do is let us get on with it and not make it any harder than it’s going to be already. I guess it’s a kind of self imposed internal exile I’d like to see from him. I just want him to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the public eye. I think it’s too late to get any kind of justice for Broaddrick, but the least he can do is just retire for good.
Yarrow
Wouldn’t surprise me to see this happen.
Villago Delenda Est
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): KEN STARR didn’t believe Broaddrick, and you do?
What is wrong with you?
rikyrah
To pay for tax cuts, Republicans eye radical health care changes
11/15/17 08:00 AM
By Steve Benen
………………………………….
Helpful for whom? In this case, the answer is obvious: the real beneficiaries are Republicans desperate to pass tax cuts for people who don’t need them.
There’s no great mystery as to what’s driving the GOP’s motivations on this. The party has long opposed the individual mandate in “Obamacare,” and by scrapping the policy, Republicans will have an additional $338 billion over the next decade to pay for more tax breaks. For Donald Trump and his allies, it’s the best of both worlds: the GOP is gutting the health care law they love to hate, and using the money to cut taxes on millionaires, billionaires, and corporations.
But the details matter: the Congressional Budget Office has already told Congress that repealing the ACA’s individual mandate will destabilize the insurance market, force many consumers to pay higher premiums, and end coverage for 13 million Americans over the next 10 years.
Indeed, the reason this move would save $338 billion is because the federal government would be paying less to provide coverage for millions of families.
Bill Arnold
Every single high-profile Republican needs, and deserves a diagram like this:
All Hail Louie Gohmert’s Uranium One Conspiracy Chart
Scott Pruitt is mine. :-) (It will be … accurate.)
JR
@Yarrow: What’s to prevent AL republicans from nominating Moore again? Almost certainly would be the outcome of that scheme.
Villago Delenda Est
@Just One More Canuck: Along these lines, I was acquainted with Danny Ainge’s older brother. Also, too, I once helped tackle Todd Christensen.
MJS
@Villago Delenda Est: Stockholm syndrome?
Yarrow
@JR: I don’t know how the process would work. There would be another primary. Would the AL Republican party allow Moore to run this time or would the national party and the donors put enough pressure on them to keep him off the ballot?
Cheryl from Maryland
@Yarrow: Done. Both my Senators are Democratic — Ben Cardin and Chris Van Hollen. Also, Senator Cardin was at the Climate Change Conference in Bonn.
Yarrow
@Cheryl from Maryland: Thank you! We need to call all our Senators, D and R, and make a bunch of noise against this bill. Calling the D Senators lets them know we’re watching and they have our support for their position.
rikyrah
THE EVER LOVING PHUCK?!?!?!?
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 11/14/17
Former KGB Putin friend hired for US Moscow embassy security
Rachel Maddow reports on the no-bid contract the Trump administration gave to a company run by a former KGB colleague of Vladimir Putin to handle the security for the U.S. embassy in Moscow, and notes a pattern of odd Trump overtures to Russia.
rikyrah
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 11/14/17
Shadow of Flynn legal jeopardy falls on Trump, Sessions
Matt Miller, former Justice Department spokesman, talks with Rachel Maddow about the nature of the case against disgraced Trump NSA Mike Flynn and whether that has implications for any obstruction of justice case that might be made against Trump.
Booger
@Roger Moore: This is the most succinct analysis of the madness I have ever heard. Bravo!
rikyrah
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 11/14/17
McConnell handling of past sex scandal a warning for Roy Moore
Rachel Maddow reminds viewers of the sexual harassment case against Senator Bob Packwood and how Mitch McConnell used the Senate Ethics Committee and the threat of expulsion to drive Packwood from the Senate in shame. So he knows how to handle Moore.
Yarrow
@rikyrah: Rumors are Flynn, Jr. is the next indictment to drop. By the end of the week.
lgerard
@Bill Arnold:
I sent an email to Al Jaffee in hopes he can explain how to fold the diagram to get the secret hidden message.
Yarrow
Have there been boycotts? Have sales dropped?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Villago Delenda Est:
What’s wrong with me? I believe she got raped. I feel kind of sick saying that, because I voted for Clinton twice, though I didn’t know about Broaddrick at the time. But I believe her. How can I take what the people are saying about Moore seriously, or what they said about Trump seriously and not believe her? Because Clinton is a Democrat?
This thing with Weinstein–and I was happy never to have heard of a month ago, though I didn’t know I was happy not to have heard of him–has started something going, and it isn’t going to stop, and it’s high time. We’re going to learn that a whole lot of people we thought a lot of are creeps or worse. We’re going to need to deal with that. I see no way to defend calling out predators when they’re Republicans while excusing predators when they’re Democrats.
We’ve been lucky so far. Most of our creeps have been marginal people. Anthony Wiener and Bob Fillner and that guy from Oregon, but our luck isn’t going to hold out forever. Sooner or later, we’re going to find out that somebody with a big profile and a whole lot of support within the party, a national figure, has raped somebody or assaulted somebody, and we need to be ready to do what’s right when that happens. Having Bill Clinton forever hanging around makes that harder. He’s our first really hard case. Do we want to be no better than Republicans in Alabama who make excuses for Roy Moore? I don’t.
Yarrow
Has this made it over here? It’s from 2013 and yes, it’s real.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@Yarrow: Thanks for the reminder. Sent a fax via Resistbot (50409) and will follow up with a phone calls to both (Bennet’s office will listen, likely Cory the Weasel’s office is already on voicemail).
JPL
@JR: That would be entertaining.
The Moar You Know
@Yarrow: Alabama politics. Moore would run again, he would win, and we’d be right back where we started from.
The more the national media exposes Moore and the party pressures him to step aside, the greater the support from citizens of Alabama. That’s how they roll. Tell them to do something and they’ll tell you to fuck off. We joke about it here but had Obama gone on TV and urged the good people of Alabama to not drink bleach, the bodies of dead bleach drinkers would have been piled high in every town there. It’s a diseased reflex in southern politics that lead directly to the Civil War and it’s still there in full strength.
Sherman was right and most of the rest of America was wrong. The South needed to be put under military occupation post-Civil War, the states dissolved, all rights suspended, completely disarmed, largely evacuated and repopulated by Northerners. In other words, eradicated. He understood the Southerner in a way most people didn’t and still don’t.
trollhattan
@Yarrow:
Did somebody smash is Keurig?
What a putz.
J R in WV
@Soonergrunt:
Nice to see you. I hear you use some app called tweeting or something? Hope you are all doing well, still in the upper rockies? Take care!
As you may recall, I have a lot of trouble getting anything said in less that several paragra
;-)
rikyrah
Did everyone else know outside of me, that Congress had a slush fund for sexual harassment?
……………………………..
Congress owes taxpayers answers about its harassment ‘shush’ fund
BY JENNY BETH MARTIN, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 11/15/17 08:00 AM EST 9 THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/360355-congress-owes-american-taxpayers-answers-about-secret-shush-fund
The Moar You Know
@Yarrow: From your link:
Someone is going to lose their job if that doesn’t turn around quickly. They thought the “vast silent majority” would come to their rescue, turns out that “vast silent majority” doesn’t exist.
hueyplong
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Not one word of that addresses the question of why we should not find it dispositive that a guy single-mindedly looking for anything to hang on Clinton didn’t find Brodderick’s claims credible enough to pursue. And it’s pretty clear that Starr wasn’t adverse to pursuing claims about sex, in general, against Clinton, so the Baylor stuff isn’t probative in this setting. I guarantee Starr would have taken the Baylor awfulness seriously if the perp had been Bill Clinton instead of half the football team.
Tom
@Yarrow: It’s still God-awful pizza.
Yarrow
@hedgehog the occasional commenter: Thank you for calling and faxing!
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
Southern evangelicals specifically feel persecuted because the rest of our society objects to how they abuse their children. It angers them that they have to hide it from the federal government. Moore is their hero on this, and what he is saying is not new or strange to them.
rikyrah
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I disagree.
Something like this comes out about a Democrat, and they will be dropped. 2017 onward?
Dropped like a hot potato.
Nobody will be defending them.
lgerard
@The Moar You Know:
The term they are running for now comes up again in 2020, so this may happen anyway. Good times ahead!
Yarrow
@The Moar You Know: Thanks. I was skimming and the headline caught my eye. That is a big deal. No wonder he “apologized.”
Frankensteinbeck
@The Moar You Know:
It turns out the ‘vast silent majority’ is ours, and we need to teach them to shout. I wish I knew how that could be done.
Fester Addams
@dr. bloor:
Right. I was going to say you have to be able to run fast to catch an ambulance, but the center doesn’t do that, does he? Just snaps the ball then collides with a large person.
rikyrah
Where I Agree With Mo Brooks
by Martin Longman November 14, 2017
In a way, I sympathize with Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama. I understand how incredibly valuable it is to have a seat in the U.S. Senate, and I wouldn’t want to concede one to the Republicans, especially in a dark blue state. The issue is amplified by the fact that the Republicans currently enjoy a narrow 52-48 majority, and we should keep in mind also that John McCain is very ill and that Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi has missed time recently because of poor health. The Republicans want to pass a tax bill through the Senate that is dependent on them having fifty seats, at a minimum, and losing the Alabama seat would get them down to a very uneasy fifty-one. Besides these factors, though, I can understand where Brooks is coming from when he says this:
rikyrah
in moderation, please help.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@hueyplong:
I think he held off because there wasn’t any way to prove the charge. He went with something else he thought he could prove, namely, perjury. He cynically steered Clinton into a situation where he believed and hoped that Clinton would behave like almost anybody else in the same spot and lie under oath. It worked. But a rape charge? I think he let it go because it was going to be too hard to make a case.
I don’t have that problem. I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with Mitt Romney. He said beyond a reasonable doubt is for a courtroom. I don’t have that burden. How can I say I believe the women who have come forward about Moore and yet say I think Broaddrick is lying? Why, because Moore is a Republican but Clinton is a Democrat?
As I said, the shitstorm is gathering, and it’s going to hit everybody. Democrats aren’t saints. We have our share of creeps and perverts. We’re need to be willing to stand up and call on our own people to leave office when they get caught up in this. It isn’t my fault. It isn’t the fault of those of us who are going to have to turn on our own allies, on people we’ve voted for, worked for and in many cases, looked up to. It’s their fault for doing these things. We need to be ready for this. Otherwise, we’re no better than the Republicans in Alabama who are turning themselves inside out excusing somebody like Moore.
rikyrah
Is Trump Getting Worse, or Has He Always Been This Delusional?
by Nancy LeTourneau November 15, 2017
Since the early days of the Trump presidency, I have been suggesting that one of his most consistent patterns is to lie, distract and blame when he feels challenged. But Steve Benen picked up on an attack he has launched against Barack Obama that seems totally disconnected from any particular threat. Here’s how it has progressed over the last couple of weeks:
Two weeks ago, in reference to his upcoming trip to Asia, Trump said, “You remember the Philippines – the last trip made by a president, that turned out to be not so good. Never quite got to land.”
Over the weekend, he talked to reporters about Obama’s “rough trip” to the Philippines.
Yesterday at a press gaggle, he elaborated:
Benen summarizes:
It is not news to anyone that the relationship between Barack Obama and President Rodrigo Duterte was strained—for good reason. Last year Obama cancelled a meeting (not the other way around) with the Philippine president in Laos
rikyrah
LOOKS LIKE?
No, Dear, IT IS!!
WikiLeaks Looks Like a Russian Front Organization
by Martin Longman November 14, 2017 PM
On December 16th, Julian Assange or one of his assistants reached out to Donald Trump Jr. by direct message on Twitter and asked him to make a request of his father, who was then the president-elect. They knew that Australia wouldn’t go along with it, but could Trump Sr. please suggest that Assange be appointed as the ambassador to the United States? This would send a message to Sweden, Australia and the U.K. to back off their legal cases.
As far as I can tell, this is the only communication WikiLeaks had with Donald Trump Jr. that didn’t directly promote Russia’s interests.
Let’s look at the first communication made via Twitter:
…………………………………………..
Once again, the desire to confuse people about WikiLeaks’ true motives and allegiances is front and center here. They know it will “beautifully” confound people if it looks like Wikileaks is doing something to hurt Trump. In the end, Donald Jr. published the emails himself.
The very existence of this correspondence contradicts more than a year of denials from the Trump camp that they were in any kind of direct communication with WikiLeaks, or that they coordinated the release and distribution of the hacked emails. A lot of people are focused on those lies, and understandably so.
But it’s the naked way that WikiLeaks was acting as a Kremlin front that I think is the most important news here. There’s an implied understanding in these messages between the two parties. There’s no sense of caution on the WikiLeaks end that they might be presumptuous about Donald Jr.’s willingness to push the Kremlin line or that Donald Sr. might be offended by the suggestion that he delegitimize the election for Russia’s benefit even though it would clearly hurt his own country. There’s a conspiracists’ bond between them as they discuss the desirability of throwing people off their scent by working together to leak damaging information in a preemptive way (the classic “limited hangout.”)
Immanentize
@Yarrow: That does NOT create a new vacancy. The only vacancy is Sessions’. Hugh Hewitt is a moronic maroon.
hueyplong
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I don’t share your apparent belief that all charges must either be believed or disbelieved, for balance or something. The idea that Starr was something of a self-limiter is also puzzling.
MJS
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): It was going to be too hard to make a case because Broaderrick herself signed an affidavit saying it didn’t happen.
Immanentize
Notice that they are speeding up the Senate vote because the GOP believes Moore will lose.
Yarrow
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I wonder if the Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein connections come up again. Jeffrey Epstein, convicted pedophile, who loaned out his plane to Clinton quite a few times. I had a look back at this Politico article from May of this year about a court case (I think it was dropped or settled). The defendant claims that it all started at Mar-a-Lago, so I guess Trump is involved too. I think he’s friends with Epstein. It’s all horrible.
And this part caught by eye. This article is before the Kevin Spacey stuff broke.
Ugh.
schrodingers_cat
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): WTF, Bill Clinton is retired, he is not running for any office now. He was impeached by the Rs, its not like he was not punished. W squeaked in, in part because of Clinton’s controversies. This is a distraction invented by the Rs and their media flunkies. Wiener is in jail and John Edwards doesn’t have a political career. Ds didn’t make excuses for them.
dogwood
@Villago Delenda Est:
What Ken Starr believed or what any prosecutor believes about sexual crimes, or any crime for that matter, isn’t the issue. Prosecutors base decisions to proceed with a case based on the amount of evidence they have and the likelihood that conviction is possible. There are gonna be plenty of Trumpers who escape prosecution because Mueller doesn’t have enough evidence. That doesn’t mean Mueller doesn’t believe they’re guilty.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@hueyplong:
Well, I think we’re on the threshold of a new time here. More and more people are going to be coming forward with charges against lots of influential men. It isn’t going to be enough to just say, “Well, the charges against Moore and Trump? Yeah, I believe them. Against Clinton? Well, I don’t want to talk about that. That was so long ago. I don’t think we need to talk about that.”
The claims against Moore are as old as Broaddrick’s charge. The only difference I can see here is that Clinton is one of our guys and Moore isn’t. I don’t think that’s good enough. Clinton himself could do us all a good turn, as I said above, by just going away. Self imposed, informal internal exile. That’s what I’d like to see. Shut up and go away.
Aleta
Speaking of tweets, sources say T reused one from the texas mass shooting for the california one, didn’t even bother to change the name of the town.
Fair Economist
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Because there are five with similar stories as opposed to just one?
Because they told other people contemporaneously?
Because they didn’t give a legal deposition saying it DIDN’T happen?
The case against Clinton is literally about as weak as it’s possible for a rape case to be. The only reason inclining to support is that false rape accusations are rare.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: I shot the sunrise, hope it helps.
Yarrow
@Immanentize: How does that work? Is Strange not the Senator? Or does a “vacancy” only happen when the elected Senator steps down?
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Goddam. How stupid can these people be? It’s not a battle between God and Satan. It’s a battle between Odin and Loki.
MJS
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You seem intent on ignoring the fact of an affidavit signed by Broaderrick stating it didn’t happen.
Matt McIrvin
@Yarrow: Trump supporters were bringing up Epstein as proof that Hillary Clinton was an accessory to child rape last year, even though as far as I can tell Trump was way more involved than Hillary was.
different-church-lady
I’m sure if Bill Clinton shuts up and goes away it will make the public and the media much more willing to forgive Democrats for any creeper time bombs that will be going off shortly. Absolutely certain of it, yes sirree, you can count on it.
Villago Delenda Est
@hueyplong: This. You’ve captured my thinking on it. If KEN STARR didn’t find Broaddrick believable enough for his “nail Clinton with something, anything!” effort, why should anyone else believe her?
Villago Delenda Est
@MJS: This is because CDS overrides any common sense.
MJS
@different-church-lady: Exactly. The Clintons are invoked rarely, and only when they make pests of themselves. //
Yarrow
@Matt McIrvin: Yeah, it’s always projection with Republicans. Always. See my posting of Trump’s 2013 tweet above. Would not surprise me at all if it eventually comes out he’s been molesting underage girls.
SRW1
@Amir Khalid:
God will do some almighty smiting! Or maybe not.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
Actually, a few people tried to make excuses for Wiener and Elliot Spitzer, but nothing like the vile, tribal, cynical, self-righteous support for Moore and his ilk.
Also, apparently Wiener is asking for people to write to him while he is locked away. A local radio show here even had his prison address. There is really something sadly wrong with him.
martian
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Do you find Broaddrick’s claims that Hillary Clinton threatened her equally credible?
That was an important part of her story, that Hillary knew and threatened her soon afterwards.
The Moar You Know
@MJS: I get one of the points: Dems are going to get caught up in this, we should be ready.
The other “point” seems to be a very confused rehash of Fox talking points, and is a stunning testimony to the effectiveness of their propaganda. You and others presented him with direct proof, a written admission by the discredited accuser, that she was lying. He doesn’t give a shit, Clinton’s guilty anyway and always will be in his mind.
Had Smedley wanted to make a more general point that what Clinton was guilty of (consensual blowjobs from a much younger woman in the Oval Office) doesn’t look so good in today’s climate, that the Clintons are obviously not America’s cup of tea these days, and that the Dem party would be better off if he and Hillary would take a long vacation, well, I think that’s material for a reasonable discussion.
To open said discussion with an assertion that Broaderrick’s charges have merit when she herself has admitted that they do not is a non-starter.
Aleta
@rikyrah: Wikileaks is done. Not resting, not stunned, no beautiful plumage, not just tired following a prolonged squawk. And the puppet who wants to be ambassador to Australia is nailed down to his perch.
Booger
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I shot the sheriff. But I did NOT shoot the deputy.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
He will ask again, but this time he will really mean it!
different-church-lady
@The Moar You Know:
It didn’t look too good in yesterday’s climate either.
lgerard
@Aleta:
It’s as if they have a ‘thoughts and prayers” rubber stamp to pull out and use whenever
bemused
@Villago Delenda Est:
R’s always throw up Bill Clinton & intern to conflate with the numerous Republican perverts and pedophiles. Years ago someone brought up this and I said Bill is a horndog but that’s Hillary’s problem, not ours. I thought he was really stupid to have a thing with a 22 year old intern but he never had to go hunting for women or force them into sex or rape, imo. For all the tens of millions spent by conservatives on investigating Bill for dirt, they didn’t come up with Bill being a sexual predator like Trump or Moore. As much as women fell for Bill, he had some kind of charisma, he also liked women very much.
Brachiator
@martian:
I don’t find these claims against Hillary to be credible.
But I think that a good degree of Bill Clinton’s behavior towards women was reprehensible. I also think that a lot of people ran interference for him, and even pressured some people to stay quiet. And, as with some allegations against other powerful people, some have decided to stay quiet because they don’t want the media scrutiny and ignorant judgment of the masses.
Emma
@Amir Khalid: I can answer that one: no. As a semi-Catholic with a thick strain of rationality built in who nevertheless still tries to converse with God, I can tell you that “Whoa, no, missy! Who do you think you are? Think it over again and we’ll talk some more” is a common response from that other voice. Their God seems to be a sort of highly educated secretary whose job it is to say “yes sir, no sir” as their inner dialogue requires
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
This. The idea that Democrats won’t punish their own is completely debunked by the actual evidence. And the idea that Ken Starr didn’t really pursue the Brodderick accusations is also ridiculous. If he had found even a scintilla of corroborating evidence, that’s what he’d have been impeached for and poor Monica Lewinsky would have had a quieter life. That’s the real victim in the Clinton impeachment and it wasn’t even really or mostly Bill’s doing. It was a consentual relationship that was used to punish Bill, but she’s the one who paid the price.
martian
@different-church-lady: Yeah, the Monica thing was always gross, having sex with groupies stuff. Sure, Monica chased him and was an adult, but the age and power difference, and the organizational context made the relationship unethical and unprofessional, at the least, on Bill’s side. He really failed to be the responsible adult, there.
If it hadn’t been for Starr, Monica was going to land softly in a cushy corporate gig courtesy of Friends Of Bill, but that doesn’t make the whole thing less wrong.
catclub
@Nicole:
the only good thing to come out of this turn of events is the term ‘precariate’ for the eking by middle( and upper-ish) class.
Captain C
@OzarkHillbilly: When it’s convenient for them. It’s kind of like how Superman always seems to have just enough powers to maybe win, but with major setbacks, until the end of the story, and then he kicks ass so easily you wonder why he just didn’t do so at the beginning.
Emma
@martian: Kenneth Starr couldn’t make that stick and dear God he tried. He threw everything against the wall and all he could make stick was LYING ABOUT CONSENSUAL SEX.
Shalimar
@germy: The lawyer for the Moores’ foundation was on MSNBC last hour and started off by trying to explain that Roy Moore isn’t a public figure so they don’t have to prove malice. It went downhill from there.
GregB
It is interesting to note that it was journalism by the lie-bruhl media that has helped to get the ball rolling on all of the assault and harassment scandals.
Other than that fraudluent little creep who at least tries to find dirt and when he doesn’t, manufactures it, is there any journalism done by wingnuts?
Fair Economist
@Brachiator:
Spitzer is a completely different issue. He hired high-priced call girls. There were no molestation or consent issues.
Humboldtblue
@Soonergrunt:
Hey, how are you? Damn good to see your name on the screen again.
catclub
@Captain C:
the powers of the Ringwraiths are similar. they should have kicked ass when they were in the Shire. There is a nod to this that they are more powerful near Sauron and the Ring – but they were incredibly close to the ring in the Shire.
catclub
@Shalimar: Moore is getting a total pass on the giant ( but secret) salary his ‘charitable organization’ was paying him.
And I bet they still are paying that.
martian
@Brachiator: I think what’s known of Bill Clinton’s behavior paints him as a throroughgoing womanizer. Taking into account the energy and money put into digging up dirt on him and the weakness of the evidence they ended up with, I wouldn’t be certain he’s worse than that. It’s certainly possible, though.
Broaddrick attempting to pull Hillary into the account goes against her overall credibility, for me, as evidence of purely political motivation.
Betty Cracker
“Judge WHORE,” y’all. Time to tap the strategic popcorn reserve.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I have to say, I find some of the things I’m reading here hard to believe. I know she denied it ever happening years later when Starr was sniffing around, because as she said, she didn’t want to drag the whole thing back out again and go through it all again, this time under oath. I find that perfectly believable that somebody would do that. Shit, women still do this, even today. They’ll say a rape or assault never happened, just because they don’t want to deal with all the shit they get. And we shouldn’t forget the five people she told about this when it happened. I guess they could all have lied about her having told them, or maybe she lied to all five of them, but that seems far fetched.
This is something that happened, I believe. I see it as kind of a moral test. Are we really going to call women liars when they claim somebody we like raped them? Are rape charges only to be believed when they’re against Republicans? Whenever some woman says a Republican did something like this and other Republicans say the woman is just a liar, or looking to get rich (because what better way to get rich is there than to make up a rape charge?), we come back and point out that fake rape claims are vanishingly rare. Is that only true when the charge comes against somebody we don’t like or don’t have any reason to defend?
I know I’m not going to change anybody’s mind here, and that’s all right. But I think we’d be helping ourselves if we went out of our way to get on the right side of this issue. Bill Clinton is a big problem for us, because he’s a huge, walking, talking charge of hypocrisy against us. I know we can’t really help what Republicans say about us. They’ll call us hypocrites, whatever we do or say. That’s one of the things they do. I’ll feel a lot better if I know that their charges are horseshit, and the only way to do that is to not be a hypocrite. We all have to make our own minds up about these things. I’ve made my mind up. You have to make up yours.
Humboldtblue
@geg6:
Come on, the imbalance of power there was staggering and Clinton gets no pass for that. He took advantage of a 20-something woman for sexual favors and then lied his ass off about and got caught lying.
Brachiator
@Fair Economist:
We’re talking about varieties of illegal or unethical behavior. Spitzer was prosecuting people for banging prostitutes while he himself was banging prostitutes. Illegal and stupid.
But a few political cynics were saying that Spitzer should have tried to stay in office. In a way, though, I want to make clear that liberals and Democrats who did not excuse Spitzer were behaving more ethically than Republicans, who love to play the ” Baby Jesus and my wife forgives me, so the rest of you dumbasses should shut up” card,
ETA: Also, Spitzer was over-paying for what he was getting. We learned that the “high-priced call girl thing” is often little more than snake-oil level marketing.
dogwood
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
There’s a big share of Democrats who always defend Bill Clinton. His accusers are all liars, or traitor park trash. His ‘92 campaign feared “bimbo eruptions”. That’s how they viewed these women. Monica Lewinsky was a stalker, until she wasn’t. Then she was a consenting adult, so there was nothing wrong. Arguing that he’s not running for anything isn’t the point. Most of these wealthy powerful men aren’t running for anything either. And the Epstein dude who likes underaged girls isn’t the only creep with a private jet he buddied up with. There was the California grocery store magnate whose private plane was always stocked with attractive young women. These men never change. As governor Clinton used his position to collect numbers from women at events, and have his security detail send women to his room. Stuck in the White House he turned to at least one very young intern. Free from the White House, gifted with, mega millions and international stardom, it’s highly unlikely he changed his behavior. I know you wish Clinton would go away, but that will never happen.
bemused
@Emma:
Yes, and they’ve thrown everything they could dream up on Hillary and spent tons of money, a lot of it taxpayer money. I’d like to ask Clinton haters why Hillary isn’t president now, why she isn’t in jail, why isn’t Bill in jail, etc, etc, etc, when R’s have thrown everything they’ve had at it, tens of millions of dollars, decades of investigation and media support. They argue that the Clintons have so much power and money, they’ve been able to “cover it all up” but they don’t explain why all that mythical Clinton superpower didn’t result in her being president now or both in prison. It defies logic but Republican voters do that all the time.
different-church-lady
@martian: Unethical and unprofessional yes. But above all else, unwise. “You dope, you really wanted that blow-job more than you wanted your entire agenda?”
Captain C
@Villago Delenda Est: Didn’t Broaddrick sign an affidavit to the effect that Clinton did NOT rape her?
Betty Cracker
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): FWIW, I think Bill Clinton’s behavior with women is sleazy at best and criminal at worst. I honestly don’t know what to believe about Broaddrick, but I agree with what you said about why she might have initially denied it and then told the truth under oath.
scav
As far as the recycled thotsnptreyers boilerplate tweet in re mass shooting, it is only dead Californians, not real ‘Mercan Texans involved. Too brown, didn’t vote for him, might hear Spanish. He might go throw a few paper towels at them if he gets the urge and forced to by his minders.
different-church-lady
@Humboldtblue: (a) Both consenting parties made bad decisions.
(b) Bill’s bad decision was worse by orders of magnitude.
Humboldtblue
@Betty Cracker:
It’s Steve Irwin day, Betty, this one’s for you. Might just be the Gators’ only win rest of the season.
different-church-lady
@Humboldtblue: It’s sad those old Sports Center commercials were always so much better than Sports Center.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, I don’t put much stock in the affidavit as proof it didn’t happen–people sign such things for all sorts of reasons. These sorts of cases can be impossible to prove to a criminal-court standard whether or not anything happened, especially when they’re very cold.
Brachiator
@martian:
There was a woman, now in her 60s, who wrote a memoir about her brief sexual encounters with John Kennedy. From the way she describes his behavior towards her and other young women, you can make a good case that with some women his actions bordered on non-consensual. And young women appeared to be brought to the White House essentially to be his comfort women.
There are patterns of this with Bill Clinton as well. For example, he apparently considered Miss Arkansas pageant contestants (and winners) to be his sexual wading pool. His position as governor gave him special access, and the opportunity to apply charm, and pressure.
I understand you completely here and largely agree. But this does not entirely let Bill Clinton off the hook for his overall actions with a number of women.
Much of this will be for historians to judge. However, this Moore mess is a separate and larger issue.
Betty Cracker
@Humboldtblue: Ha! I think we’ve got a Division II team teed up for Saturday, so we’ll get at least one more win.
martian
@different-church-lady: Oh, it was as stupid as it was gross, especially in retrospect, but the degree of stupidity is clear more in hindsight, I think. Politics was/is such a boys club, but Bill was way too slow to see that the other boys were aiming to kick him out of that club. It’s kind of amazing to think that people like Gingrich (and even worse, like Hastert) imagined that they could out Clinton and then just keep clubbing on.
Davebo
@Betty Cracker: Actually she was under oath in both instances.
I have no idea if she’s lying or not mainly because she clouded the issue so much.
Humboldtblue
@different-church-lady:
It’s easy to follow that rabbit hole and end up watching them all
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: As I mentioned earlier in the week: it is entirely possible for Bill Clinton to be, at the same time, (a) a really big creep and (b) innocent of some the accusations against him.
feebog
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
There is a difference between denying an incident and filing a sworn affidavit in a federal investigation. That is what Broaddrick, only to completely change her story a year or two later. I don’t know if Clinton raped her or not, but perjuring yourself does not exactly inspire confidence in your story.
Davebo
God we’re re-litigating Broaderick/Clinton again.
Fuck you Roy Moore!
Betty Cracker
@Davebo: Huh. That’s not what I read. But I agree it’s hard to know what happened in that particular case, even if she lied about it. Lots of women lie about it because they get slimed if they tell the truth. On the other hand, Broaddrick’s willingness to show up at the presidential debate and vouch for Trump damages her credibility in my book. Bottom line, though: Bill Clinton is a sleazy bastard, and we’ve all paid for it in one way or another.
Fair Economist
@Humboldtblue:
Not the nature of the relationship. Monica pursued him and he said no. She continued pursuing him and he eventually said “kind of” – he agreed to sexualized activities with her but constructed a weird boundary line around “real sex” and never agreed to that. “I never had sex with that woman” wasn’t a lie, although he had constructed a weird definition which was substantially more stringent than most people. The reason he was able to field the question in the deposition with a complex definition was that he’d already had to construct said definition to deal with his own reservations. It was nothing like the usual situation where a superior uses power to coerce sex out of an unwilling or even uneasy participant. It was a very different failure – more like insufficient resistance to temptation.
gvg
@Humboldtblue: there was more to it than that. A 20 year old should normally be allowed by everybody to know her own mind in relationships even if most can see he/she is being a common idiot. It’s paternalistic of most of us to think Bill has to be the only one at fault.
But the thing that shocked me the most about it was an interview where it came out that she had told her aunt and mother about Bill and they were egging her on, leading her to think he really might divorce Hillary and marry her. Gold diggers in fact and delusional ones too because the publicity glare around the presidency is so intense, that Clinton or any President would be scalped if they had hinted the marriage wasn’t going to continue. It had been an issue that Reagan was the first divorced and remarried Presidents just a few years before and papers STILL print gossip about JKF. Plus my mother and relatives would have told me an adulterer mostly won’t marry you and will cheat on you if he does. I would have been counseled to run away fast and I knew it was wrong to cheat too. She got bad advice from her own family. It wasn’t Bill that messed her up, it was her family. She had already had affairs with older men which was used to run her down then but really reflected her actual family situation, well off with money but messed up in coping.
Of course he was wrong to cheat too and is also an adult. that wasn’t admired at all by me.
the reason Clinton got “excused” was republicans in Congress kept trying to infringe on women’s rights and Bill who behaved like a scoundrel in his personal life, was a reliable veto for some legislature I considered very threatening at the time. That is when I learned personal does not equal business. Also when my party loyalty was set. In addition there were all the times they declared wolf that were false before there was something that maybe was iffy and the fact that the actual leaders of the pack against Bill turned out to be provably doing what they claimed he was…….we just didn’t believe them partly because of whom was saying it.
Looking back now years later when it’s calmed down and checking Wiki…yeah there might have been something there but I can’t forget all the bullshit false stuff that was said and who said it and how deranged the accusations were and are and well I remain sceptical.
Broadderick keeps repeating that Hillary knew with what she thinks are sinister quotes and indications still and sounds silly to me in that.
glory b
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): When she had the chance, she denied that it happened (see feebog).
Then, she repeated the same story after her denial.
Ken Starr was forced to conclude that she wasn’t credible.
Kay
Good. We have to beat a very slick vote-suppressor who is also the sec of state so in charge of voting but do not let that worry you. FINE. It will be fine :)
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Hope Cordray runs and wins. He seems like a good guy.
Brachiator
@different-church-lady:
Yes, it is entirely possible for Bill Clinton to be, at the same time, (a) a really big creep and (b) guilty of some of the accusations against him.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker:
Completely agree.
Also agree the imbalance of power with Monica Lewinsky made the consensual nature of the relationship somewhat questionable. Louis C.K. asked women if he could pull it out and jerk off in front of them. Some of them even said yes. Was that consensual? They were in his industry and he was powerful and they were not. We’re judging that as him taking advantage of his position for his sexual gratification. Was it that different with Bill?
martian
@Brachiator:
I think we’re pretty much in agreement overall. Clinton’s behavior, even what passed as consenting and non-coercive under the not-very-stringent standards of the time, is not aging well. Cultural understanding of consent has evolved for the better. And there’s still time to hear more from the women concerned in it. I would never assume Bill’s completely off the hook, I don’t think he ever could be, definitively. The behavior overall is too questionable.
glory b
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): But Broaddrick (Can I now say I find the spelling of her name to be INCREDIBLY annoying? Yes, I’m being petty) did lie at some point. She said it happened. Then, under oath, when it mattered, she said it didn’t. Then, feted by conservatives, she said it did.
And then, sat there with the Trump family and stared at HRC? Sorry, she isn’t entitled to be believed now.
Kay
Another one:
Emma
@Davebo: Yes, and I am getting sick and tired of it. Bill Clinton was a superbly stupid man who couldn’t keep his pants zipped. Agreed. He was so thoroughly investigated that we know the shape of his p_nis. Neither Kenneth Starr nor all the other anti-Clinton muckrackers have ever been able to pin anything else on him. And they have tried since 1998 when impeachment docs were filed accusing him of perjury and obstruction of justice. That’s what we got. We DO NO FREAKING HAVE AN ACCUSATION OF MOLESTATION OF A MINOR.
Can we just focus here?
Aleta
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I believe her too, and I have no trouble believing that he treated women like free desserts brought in by room service, a perk of having power. Married to a feminist for all those years but unwilling to learn, even from her, enough about misogyny to be careful about consent within power dynamics. Despite genuine support for removing discrimination against women.
If he wants to contribute to society, he (and the recent apologizers) could open up about the sociopathy of acting on our culture’s misogyny. Talk about what’s going on when you’re not able to stop even after you understand the harm. What’s going on inside when you blame and punish your victim to save yourself.
The friends who are are apologizing for “not knowing,” “not realizing the extent” (commenting on TV b/c they are public figures with careers) could contribute by explaining their personal fears, career calculations and the assumptions that cause blindness. The not knowing, not realizing is real, but they could speak about what is behind it.
A few, mostly women and some men, are writing about this, and about the fear of one’s name getting tarnished or work excluded just by association with a victim. And it seems like that career tarnishing extended even to writers who thought about covering the topic.
TenguPhule
@dmsilev:
If this is true, Hillary Clinton is going to be seated on the throne of god in the afterlife.
Yarrow
@Kay: YAY! I know you were hoping Cordray would run. That’s very good news.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Fair Economist: Also, this whole thing happened during the government shutdown, there weren’t a whole lot of paid staff around.
Brachiator
@gvg:
Sorry. No evidence that Lewinsky was a gold digger. None. She certainly got more ridicule out of the affair than any money-making publicity. Maybe if it happened today, she would be offered a reality show.
And some of what we learned about the affair was tawdry, especially some of Bill Clinton’s attempts to give her presents and imply that there was more to their relationship than he was really ever going to offer.
Not illegal. But needy and tawdry. And despite knowing that his enemies were always out to get him, pointlessly politically reckless.
As I said before, Bill Clinton was a junky man with junky appetites who gave his enemies the hammer that they used to beat him with.
glory b
@Yarrow: Yeah, but according to the people who worked in the White House at the time, Monica Lewinsky wasn’t in her office, doing her job, she was hanging around near the oval, trying to run into Clinton. The word was out to keep her from the area whenever someone saw her. Clinton started trying to avoid her.
Sure, there was an imbalance of power, but according to Lewinsky she was an eager participant and found the power to be a turn on.
The person wronged in all of this was Hillary.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
He is. He’s a good politician too- extremely competitive and hard working. I think his opponent will be Husted, who is also very able and will be hard to beat. Husted is a fake moderate and he has a compelling story- he grew up in foster care.
The other Democrats just aren’t as qualified as Cordray and they come off as resume-padding in campaign appearances in a cringe-worthy way that I wish they would stop. Cordray would be the clear front runner, partly because he’s won a statewide race (he was AG).
TenguPhule
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): When you ride the tiger, eventually it rides you.
J R in WV
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
If the alleged victim herself signed an affidavit that no such attack occurred, then, yes, it would be difficult to prosecute someone for that attack. It would also be difficult to convince me that the attack occurred, and that I should rain on the alleged attacker, be he Republican or Democratic.
The Clintons have been under attack for decades, wholly based upon lies, for transporting cocaine through Arkansas, for abusing people under pizza houses with no basements, for having State Police deliver women to Governor Clinton. For selling children to grey aliens for all I know.
I do not believe any of it, it will take real evidence presented in a courtroom with defense lawyers reviewing that evidence for admissibility to convince me. The accusations were all over the dartboard, most made little or no sense, the fact that one may be true – MAY be true, doesn’t hold much water when compared to all the malicious attacks that were total fiction. They spoiled their own case by making too many provably false accusations in my book!
We should be talking about more recent and provable cases with multiple witnesses and written evidence if you ask me!!
Plus, I spent 20 minutes I will never get back to talk to one blue dog Democratic Senator (Joe Manchin) and two right wingers, Shelly Moore Capito, Senator R(Bankers) and Evan Jenkins Congressman for the southern district of WV.
I left a message on Joe’s voice mail in DC and then called his local Charleston office where I got a pleasant young woman to talk to. I got a guy in DC at Capito’s office, who was reasonably polite but not enthusiastic about my opinions on Taxes and Health Care. Then I got another pleasant woman at Evan Jenkin’s DC office.
The two Republican office holders staff took my messages – I told all that I had two issues to discuss, Taxes raised on the great majority of constituents, in order to lower taxes on people far from our state and not their constituents, followed up by distorting the health care system’s financial foundation also in order to lower taxes on people hot in the area represented by the congress folks.
I mentioned rural clinics operating on thin margins that would be damaged or closed by these provisions, thus taking health care even from those with insurance because their close medical facilities would be closed down.
I’ll do it again soon if these measures are still being debated.
TenguPhule
@gene108:
They will.
No True Republicans will be in play.
J R in WV
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Nice, how much post-production work did that photo get? Well done in any case!
Emma
@Brachiator: So telling friends she was going to Washington to get her presidential kneepads was the act of an innocent child of fourteen? cite
TenguPhule
@Amir Khalid:
They blame Lucifer for helping their opponents win.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: /Cringe
I do not like this timeline.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: That was blended in Photoshop from two bracketed exposures(+-1 stop) to get the foreground to come out lighter.
ETA: Oh and I took out a water tank in the foreground.
FlipYrWhig
If we have to revisit the Bill Clinton saga and don ashes and sackcloth in penance for it, do Republicans have to do the same with Clarence Fucking Thomas? You know, the episode that galvanized public awareness that sexual harassment was A Thing and yet that seems to be invoked exactly zero fucking times when discussing politician creepers who get away with things, how, why, and with the help of whom?
Aleta
@Aleta: In the time I was writing, this a lot of comments I didn’t read happened–esp about Broderick–This wasn’t in response to those, which I want to read now.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Cordray endorsed Obama in ’08 before anyone was daring to do that. It turned out to be a smart move but he was really what the Obama campaign called “validators” – people who were known by Democrats and could make Obama seem a possibility. They were so important that “good timing” just meant everything and Cordray took a risk that paid off.
He really is very smart. He can be intimidating in person because he’s quick, ya know what I mean? You sense you’re behind him so you have to focus and keep up. However. I’ve met Husted and he’s smart too.
glory b
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Then what would explain her eagerly participating with Trump during the debates?
And, do you believe Hillary threatened her with harm, like she said she did?
Davebo
@Betty Cracker: An affidavit is a sworn statement.
Emma
@Brachiator: OK. Making the apology before I get called on it. I read your comment in detail and it turns out we kind of agree on the actual topic under discussion.
Not an excuse, but a reason: I am facing retirement in four years and moving out of the country because with my health history there’s no flipping way I can get decent insurance if these clowns manage to gut Obamacare. Basically and selfishly, I suppose, I want to fight about that instead of about Bill Clinton skeevy sex life.
glory b
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Doesn’t seem to be a problem with people here willing to talk about it.
TenguPhule
The Republicans are running a tax cut/medical murder bill while also running a child molester in Alabama and we’re refighting old arguments over Bill Clinton.
/Headdesk.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Frankensteinbeck: Twitter has actually helpful here. I’ve seen multiple posts, not all repeats from one person, about contacting Hannity’s advertisers in the past several days.
This is actually a technique the Religious Right developed years ago–and it worked for them, because you don’t need millions of people to target an advertiser–you need a few thousand. We’ve stood by and wrung our hands, instead of using it ourselves. I suspect if we’d been applying it much earlier, FoxNews would be less bold about their lies.
I am wondering at this point if the Murdoch children are hoping for things like this to allow them to weed out some of the old-timers with big contracts on their network–the extent to which Shepherd Smith has been allowed to say things without much pushback that he’d never have gotten away with when Ailes was in charge is very interesting to observe.
Emma
@TenguPhule: Let me stand by you and we can bang our heads in rhythm.
Brachiator
@Emma:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
I am not going to slap Monica Lewinsky around or try to demonize her. I am not even going to play the blame game or try to dole out degrees of moral fault.
If it were anyone else besides Bill Clinton, people would be talking about the age difference and the power differential between him and Lewinsky. Funny how that works.
I acknowledge that their relationship was consensual. But Clinton was using her, as powerful men often use and discard women. This was not even like his affair with Gennifer Flowers, which appeared to me more a consensual affair of equals.
Lewinsky was young and stupid, as young people often are. Bill Clinton was president of the United States. He knew he had political enemies. And he still thought that he could indulge himself and outsmart his political foes.
He put his own head in a political noose, and was lucky and charismatic enough to shake off what was a totally bullshit exercise in his impeachment.
But Lewinsky didn’t get anything out of it. Not even a commemorative set of presidential knee pads.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Hopefully, it’ll be a wave election and Cordray will benefit from that.
different-church-lady
@Emma:
Of course not; we’re Democrats.
different-church-lady
@TenguPhule: It is far more important that we be morally consistent than help actual people.
Emma
@Brachiator: I apologized. But…. From Wikipedia:
Monica Samille Lewinsky is an American activist, television personality, fashion designer, and former White House intern.
By her own account, Lewinsky had survived the intense media attention during the scandal period by knitting.[30] In September 1999, she took this interest further by beginning to sell a line of handbags bearing her name,[35] under the company name The Real Monica, Inc.[30] They were sold online as well as at Henri Bendel in New York, Fred Segal in California, and The Cross in London.[30][35][36] Lewinsky designed the bags—described by New York magazine as “hippie-ish, reversible totes”—and traveled frequently to supervise their manufacture in Louisiana.[30]
At the start of 2000, Lewinsky began appearing in television commercials for the diet company Jenny Craig, Inc.[37]
Also at the start of 2000, Lewinsky moved to New York City, lived in the West Village, and became an A-list guest in the Manhattan social scene.[30] In February 2000, she appeared on MTV’s The Tom Green Show, in an episode in which the host took her to his parents’ home in Ottawa in search of fabric for her new handbag business. Later in 2000, Lewinsky worked as a correspondent for Channel 5 in the UK, on the show Monica’s Postcards, reporting on U.S. culture and trends from a variety of locations.[30][39]
In March 2002, Lewinsky, no longer bound by the terms of her immunity agreement,[30] appeared in the HBO special, “Monica in Black and White”, part of the America Undercover series.[40] In it she answered a studio audience’s questions about her life and the Clinton affair.[40]
Lewinsky hosted the reality television dating program, Mr. Personality, on Fox Television Network in 2003,[27] where she advised young women contestants who were picking men hidden by masks.[41] Some Americans tried to organize a boycott of advertisers on the show, to protest Lewinsky’s capitalizing on her notoriety.[42] Nevertheless, the show debuted to very high ratings,[41] and Alessandra Stanley wrote in The New York Times: “after years of trying to cash in on her fame by designing handbags and other self-marketing schemes, Ms. Lewinsky has finally found a fitting niche on television.”[43] The ratings, however, slid downward each successive week,[44] and after the show completed its initial limited run, it did not reappear.[45] The same year she appeared as a guest on the programs V Graham Norton in the UK, High Chaparall in Sweden, and The View and Jimmy Kimmel Live! in the U.S.[45]
Monica Lewinsky’s life after Clinton has been just dandy, thank you.
Brachiator
@Emma:
Crap. I am just seeing your comment now.
Can I say that I agree with you as well. There is no need to fight over Bill Clinton. In fact, as I have tried to say, the comments here indicate that Democrats, liberals, whatever we want to call ourselves, are far more able to see nuance and not simply or blindly defend or excuse Bill Clinton’s actions.
And there are other more important issues at stake here. Absolutely.
And I absolutely understand the issue of your personal circumstances with respect to health insurance. I am beyond angry that Republican fools put people in such a situation.
ETA: Lewinsky appearing on the Tom Green show ain’t much of being a celebrity. Tom Green? D-List at best.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I agree with you that it’s a serious problem. I do not know for certain what happened, and I don’t think anyone who wasn’t there at the time can know for sure. It’s possible to not be a sufficiently credible witness, and still be a victim. It’s also true that people like Richard Mellon Scaife were hunting for anything that could be used as dirt on Clinton–and that that doesn’t control whether or not Broaderick was telling the truth about events, even if she was not a good witness, and undercut herself with that affidavit. Bill Clinton was lucky that Starr couldn’t do any better than he did.
I don’t know how well we CAN shove Bill into the attic of history, though–will he tolerate being sidelined to fundraising for disasters?
Aleta
@glory b: I’m not excusing her, and I think it was horrible to do that. But I could understand the why –that it could be caused by her lasting anger at the Clintons together with being used and manipulated by expert operatives. (If she was raped, what I’ve seen in my family is how that anger without justice finds all kinds of harmful forms. Even going on to harm others.) I can believe that she could have been seriously harmed by later being slimed, and that could make someone susceptible to being used. And susceptible to the irrational rantings and conspiracy beliefs of Limbaugh and Fox, which so many have inexplicably fallen for.
Just as a note, among a branch of my relations, infected by child abuse and by marriage to a man who acted on his pedophilia (supposedly briefly, once)–in the aftermath of continuing to defend him, many of the women became dementedly insistent and judgmental anti-liberal christians.
The Lodger
@?BillinGlendaleCA: But did you shoot the deputy?
gvg
@Brachiator: I didn’t say SHE was a gold digger, tho I guess I didn’t say it very clearly. Her mother and Aunt both per that interview were what I would call gold diggers. She was being led down that path but got screwed so thoroughly that she clearly changed paths of her life. She was young and if she had had better examples, would not have found herself there. Its been years so I can’t recall enough details but I was completely shocked right then with how STUPID the advice was.
I think it was a different story about the background that made me consider her mother a gold digger but it’s no longer clear. Her parents were divorced, the dad seemed wiser to the world than her mom. The aunt was the one I think who really encouraged her to think marriage was possible. and then her “friend” told the republicans and encouraged her too.
I also recall testimony from multiple sources she stalked Bill. Responsible government types tried to keep her away.
The press crazy results scarred her out of the country. I’ve read somewhere she apologised to Hillary.
geg6
@Fair Economist:
Agreed. Could not care less about Spitzer’s call girls. His business and his only.
geg6
@Humboldtblue:
I don’t condone what he did, but she didn’t feel exploited. The only ones who really exploited her were the GOP.
FTR, I once worked at a newspaper. During that time, I dated the editor, who was a bit older than me and much higher on the hierarchy than me. We had *gasp* sex. Many times, in fact. The fact that he was my superior wasn’t an issue because he wasn’t forcing me, wasn’t asking me to do anything I didn’t want to do and it had no effect on our working relationship. I’m not saying that Monica and Bill had the same sort of relationship, but it’s possible it was.
Aleta
Rs and Fox operatives keep repeating that feminists supported Bill Clinton in his abuse of power toward Lewinsky and the women he slimed. That’s not true; it’s a tactic of theirs. It should be called out, because it’s one reason that they can so easily use Clinton to set fire to the conversation now.
At the time, feminist anger and writing against Clinton was there; but it didn’t get anywhere near the space in the media as other writing, such as calling out R tactics and the outrageous impeachment circus.
This is still a problem–right now there is less space in ms media and on blogs given to the focus feminists (women and men) are trying to keep. Even when some of Weinstein and Spacey’s victims include that focus when they speak about their experience and pain. Maybe it goes back to an assumption that feminism is about women, when it’s actually about society.
J R in WV
@Aleta:
I’m not a bit surprised that women whose families were damaged by sexual abuse of all sorts can become “dementedly insistent and judgmental anti-liberal christians.”
[ Coincidently, two men, an younger and an older man, both wearing ties, came to our remote rural home half a mile up a private road away from the county road allegedly to share good news about the bible with us. I declined, on the front porch, they were surprised and left. What’s up with that?? ]
I suspect a large proportion of RWNJ christians have either experienced sexual abuse or a close family member had been abused, and their reaction is denial and defense of the abuser, who used religion to defend themselves, reading from the bible to their victim or those to whom the victim turned for help.
After which the victim was blamed, attacked psychologically or even physically, and tormented until they admit that there was no abuse, the current torment isn’t abuse, and God will forgive the victim for her lies if she abases herself sufficiently, and goes to the abuser and begs for forgiveness, and maybe gives him a special favor to help him feel better about being accused of things he maybe did that were just what they both deserved. Is that twisted enough? And now everyone needs to be Republican, because LIEberals support sex!
That reporter’s twitter feed, Yashar Ali, so full of abuse was eye opening, even though I’m pretty cynical. So I’ve tried to use that information here.
I’m fortunate in never having experienced this form of abuse.
Aleta
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Amazing picture. I really like how emotion for the scene and intelligence come very strongly through the beauty that’s in your pictures.
James E. Powell
@gene108:
Family values has always been code for white supremacy, patriarchy, anti-choice, and hating on LGBT. I don’t see the Republicans giving up on the formula that has won so many elections.
Aleta
@J R in WV: –What’s up with that??–
Those two fellows were up here a few weeks ago !! All I can tell you about them is they’re always on foot and they’ll talk up a storm, in the long American tradition of itinerant carneys civilizing the frontier. Salesmen really–no elixir or salve, they’ve reduced it down to merely swearing their firm keeps its promises.
Matt McIrvin
@FlipYrWhig: I’ve heard remarkably little talk of Bob Packwood, either–but Packwood didn’t get away with it, at least to the extent of keeping his job.
Uncle Cosmo
@Fester Addams: LBJ famously remarked that Gerry Ford (center for UMich in the day) had played too many games of football without a helmet. Some wag piled on ;^D saying that the helmet wasn’t the problem, it was the fact he played center – he’d gotten used to looking at the world upside-down between his legs…
Uncle Cosmo
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Take your own advice, why doncha – we’ll figure out a way to save Western civilization without you.
What part of “She signed an affidavit saying it didn’t happen” are you having trouble understanding? And yet you believe it anyway. You’re every bit as clueless as the RWNJ whose Stars&Barred flatbed sports wunna them thar bumperstickers that reads
Aleta
@J R in WV: Another example in my family, a close relative who was raped at 16 by the next-door neighbor when she was babysitting, and found no way to talk about it for 30 years. Right now she’s a charismatic (as opposed to evangelical) second-coming, obedience-to-god-our-king person. Very different upbringing (Democratic Party, etc). All I’ve come up with as a way I could partly understand is that that her pain had to find relief and any kind of resolution, which some people with PTSD from rape have said can be nearly impossible. When she encountered this kind of christianity, perhaps she got some relief through religion or by being inside a community of supposed “good people” /absolute believers? It’s my idea or projection– I’m sure she’d say otherwise, which is her right.
feebog
@Brachiator:
This. Times infinity. The word for it is hubris. Regardless of the consensual nature of their relationship, he took advantage, and should have known better.