Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Let’s finish the job.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

We’re not going back!

T R E 4 5 O N

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Repubs in Disarray Open Thread: More Moore (Of Course)

Repubs in Disarray Open Thread: More Moore (Of Course)

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If ya let yer wimmen forget their place in God’s plan, then the coloreds are gonna get uppity! And if ya let the coloreds get uppity, next thing ya know yer wimmen will forget their place!

The ugly truth, of course, is that Roy Moore’s current candidacy is the distilled end product of the GOP’s forty-plus years’ refining a message that would resonant with all the worst instincts and practices of “true American” clannishness, misogyny, authoritarianism, and xenophobia. And the embodied sludge that is “Judge” Roy Moore is now… an embarrassment to his enablers.

… McConnell aides express caution, saying they’re uncertain whether such a move, one of several options being discussed, is even possible. Yet the talks underscore the despair among top Republicans over relinquishing a seat in deep-red Alabama, further diminishing their slim Senate majority.

New GOP polling obtained by POLITICO suggests that Moore is cratering. A survey conducted by the National Republican Senatorial Committee after allegations emerged that Moore had engaged in sexual misconduct with teenagers showed him trailing Democratic candidate Doug Jones by 12 points. Other recent polling has the race closer.

McConnell’s team had been high on the idea of asking Jeff Sessions, who held the Alabama seat for two decades prior to becoming Attorney General, to run as a write-in candidate. But the committee polled the prospect of Sessions waging a write-in bid and the outcome was unfavorable, said three people familiar with the results. Party officials worry that a write-in candidacy would serve only to split the Republican vote and seal a Jones victory.

Plus, Sessions isn’t interested, according to several people who’ve spoken about it with him. He has received overtures from Republican lawmakers, including Richard Shelby, Alabama’s longtime Republican senator, who spoke with Sessions this week…

Republicans are engaged in a flurry of back-channel conversations. President Donald Trump spoke with McConnell on Wednesday morning and the Alabama race was a major topic of discussion, said several people briefed on the conversation. On Tuesday morning, Shelby spoke with Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey. During the discussion, Ivey dismissed the possibility of moving the date of the Dec. 12 election, an idea that had been floated by senior Republicans…

Reader Interactions

140Comments

  1. 1.

    cervantes

    But if Strange resigns and they have a new special election, won’t there have to be, you know, a Republican primary? And who do you think would win it? Am I missing something here?

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    Because the GOP can’t win unless they cheat and game the ref. Don’t like the troglodyte your Alabama GOP base served up? Here’s (attempt at) a spanking fresh election for you.

    They don’t walk the walk, and they avoid the consequences of their actions at every opportunity. I wish Governor Ivey would use this experience to teach Alabama (or maybe the rest of us) a lesson.

    And here’s hoping Doug Jones sails this shit barge to victory.

  3. 3.

    gene108

    Alabama and Mississippi have large African-American populations, which reliably vote for Democrats.

    A significant drop in Rwpublican turn out or white people, who vote like 90% Republican, to not vote Republican, can flip either one of these states.

    It is theoretically more likely to flip AL or MS than a state like Utah or Wyoming.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    What in the world could McConnell possibly promise Strange to get him to resign? Mitch couldn’t deliver the R nom in AL and if this shambolic shit happened Luther has zero future in AL politics. Then what?
    And what makes McConnell think the AL Gov is going to play along? She has to live in AL after all this nonsense.

  5. 5.

    aimai

    @cervantes: Can we apply the same thing at the national level? Because I’d totally give them a do over in Alabama if they force Trump to resign and we get to vote again for Hillary Clinton.

  7. 7.

    piratedan

    simply put, I hate these GOP fuckers… they ruin so much around us, and make the mundane suddenly life altering. The games they play with peoples lives and livelihood for the sake of the those that have already won drives so much of my stress and frustration.

  8. 8.

    Keith G

    Roy Moore has been thrown out of more than 3 courts.

    If you count several shopping mall food courts.

  9. 9.

    father pusbucket

    I’m surprised his Ten Commandments monument fixation doesn’t come up more often. Too bad he never read them.

  10. 10.

    SFAW

    Is it too much to ask that we have JUST ONE FUCKING DAY where we don’t have to fight off the latest Rethug attempt(s) to destroy democracy and America? Those fuckers.

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    The Turtle was a Legislative Sooper Genius for his whole career, mainly because all he ever had to do was figure out a way to get to “No”. Now that Trump has allowed Mitch to reveal his true self we all see how scrambling and ineffective he’s really always been. I mean, this is just like someone lit his short & curly’s on fire.

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Why do I think that no matter what the GOP does, they are screwed? Just Imagine the lawsuits. Even if everything the GOP does is legal and constitutional (highly dubious on the 2nd), the lawsuits will tie it up for years and everyday will see some version of the same headline: “GOP still trying to nullify an election”. Even Alabama Republicans who hate the idea of “Senator Roy Moore” might come to despise the GOP even more.

  14. 14.

    nonynony

    @SFAW:

    Is it too much to ask that we have JUST ONE FUCKING DAY where we don’t have to fight off the latest Rethug attempt(s) to destroy democracy and America?

    I’ve been watching politics for 30+ years and I’m fairly sure that the answer is “no”.

  18. 18.

    hueyplong

    @SFAW: It’s possible the Ten Commandments thing isn’t hit on as much right now because Moses’ truncated list doesn’t specifically include pedophilia.

    On a related front, has Sean Hannity’s 24 hour put-up-or-shut-up period ended? If so, is he disowning Moore? I have no intention of actually watching/listening to any portion of his show(s) myself, and instead rely on jackals with iron stomachs to handle that task and report back to the pack.

  20. 20.

    randy khan

    The Strange resignation scenario makes no sense. A special election is set to fill the unexpired term of the person who vacated the office, and Strange’s term expires when the result of the December 12 election is certified. I can’t figure out any way that you could justify a claim that his resignation triggers a new special election to complete the Sessions term.

  22. 22.

    Chet

    Moore has them cornered on this one. He ran as an anti-GOP-establishment candidate. If the GOP establishment makes such overt action to prevent him from becoming a senator, they only prove him right.

  23. 23.

    randy khan

    @hueyplong:

    It ended, not with a bang, but with a whimper. I didn’t see it, but the reports are that he said we need more evidence to decide the truth. (This, mind you, after he said that Moore had to prove to him that nothing had happened.)

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @sylvania:

    Would not have given Repubs time to Ratfuck the Alabama Election.

    I find myself hoping they DO ratfuck the election. It tells everyone every where what Repubs think of elections.

  25. 25.

    aimai

    @sylvania:No, its all good. The point isn’t whether we get the seat or not, the point is to give the voters in alabama and all over the country a good, long, look at republicans in disarray with their hands up the skirts of seventeen year old girls.

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    @hueyplong:

    I think I saw at TPM that Moore sent Hannity an “open letter,” and Idiot’s response was “OK, now it’s up to the Alabama voters.” [This is based on the headline, so the article may say something different.]

  29. 29.

    Nicole

    For a lot of Republican voters, it won’t matter. If their team wins, that’s all that’s important. Something like this, I worry, will depress Democratic voters- you know, what’s the point if the powers-that-be are just going to do a do-over if they don’t like the results? And FOX News will spin it as totally normal and that’s where 40% of the population get their news.

  30. 30.

    GregB

    The Intercept is kicking Assange to the curb.

    New piece posted.

    We Knew Assange Hated Clinton, We Didn’t Know He Was Helping Trump.

  31. 31.

    Repatriated

    @sylvania: Timing was ok if they thought the revelations would only damage Moore rather than destroy him. And that’s also assuming that the timing was primarily about political effect.

    The other thing is that he might have been able to brazen it out if the stories came out later. Defamation suits that wouldn’t have time to be dismissed with prejudice, allegations of Establishment nefariousness that wouldn’t have time to lose traction, etc.

  32. 32.

    James E. Powell

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’m thinking it’s the opposite. No matter what happens, the Republicans still control all three branches of the federal government. The Democrats’ plan to retake the house appears to require all of us to clap louder, no one is even talking about the senate, and while the hateful clown in charge continues to produce great ratings for the cable shows, completely unhinged right-wing monsters are getting lifetime appointments to the federal judiciary.

    No matter what happens, the Republicans will be fine because, like the guys from Mohawk, they still have all the money.

  33. 33.

    rikyrah

    Social Security on the chopping block: How the GOP plans to fix its own budget mess
    Republicans are going back to their dream: Cutting Social Security and Medicare
    CHARLIE MAY
    11.15.2017•10:27 AM

    Amid the impending GOP tax reform bill there has been plenty of talk about the estimated $1.5 trillion slash in taxes, but there has been almost no discussion of how the Republicans — who regularly tout the importance of the federal deficit — plan to pay for their proposed cuts.

    On Tuesday, House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., insisted that the national debt is a serious issue, and that in order for it to be fixed, entitlement programs would have to be gutted in order to pay for the tax cuts.

    “You cannot get the national debt under control, you cannot get that deficit under control, if you don’t do both — grow the economy, cut spending,” Ryan said during a town hall event in Virginia for Fox News.

    Ryan claimed that the Republican tax plan “grows the economy” but that the party has “a lot of work to do in cutting spending.”
    Democrats have said the Republican tax plan is nothing more than a grab for social safety nets.

    “This is a nasty, two-step strategy that has long been the holy grail for hard-right Republicans,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., told The New York Times. “If this bill passes, you can bet the Republicans will immediately sharpen the knives for middle-class benefits.”

  34. 34.

    Calouste

    @SFAW: On one of the threads yesterday we had a discussion about how Mr and Mrs Moore seem to have different stories about how they met, and that Moore left Alabama around the time Mrs Moore, who was then still married to another man, gave birth to her first child. And how when he came back, she filed for divorce within weeks.

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    GOP hopes to boost its popularity with woefully unpopular tax plan
    11/16/17 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.) boasted yesterday that the goals of the Republican Party’s tax plan “are shared by many Americans.” I’m not sure which polling data the West Virginia senator is reading, but before GOP policymakers radically overhaul the nation’s finances, they may want to consider the actual attitudes of the American mainstream.

    Take, for example, a national Quinnipiac poll released yesterday.

    American voters disapprove 52 – 25 percent of the Republican tax plan…. The wealthy would mainly benefit from this tax plan, 61 percent of American voters say, while 24 percent say the middle class will mainly benefit and 6 percent say low-income people would mainly benefit.

    American voters say 59 – 33 percent that the Republican tax plan favors the rich at the expense of the middle class. […]

    Only 36 percent of voters believe the GOP tax plan will lead to an increase in jobs and economic growth, while 52 percent do not believe it.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    On taxes, Republicans prioritize corporations over people
    11/16/17 09:20 AM—UPDATED 11/16/17 09:39 AM
    By Steve Benen
    One of the most memorable lines of the 2012 presidential campaign came when Mitt Romney lectured an Iowa voter, “Corporations are people, my friend.” Several years later, Romney’s Republican Party seems quite eager to help those “people” – even at the expense of actual people.

    The headline on today’s New York Times report is both brutal and accurate: “Republican Tax Plans Put Corporations Over People.”

    There are tough choices at the heart of the Republican tax bills speeding through Congress, and they make clear what the party values most in economic policy right now: deep and lasting tax cuts for corporations. […]

    The version of the bill moving through the Senate Finance Committee chooses to give peace of mind to corporate executives planning their long-term investments. That comes at the expense of added anxiety for individual taxpayers, particularly those in the middle class, who could face stiff tax increases on Jan. 1, 2026.

  38. 38.

    Amir Khalid

    I don’t get why having Luther Strange vacate the US Senate seat early is an option. The election between Moore and Jones is only a few weeks away, and the winner takes office right after that, right? If Strange resigned now, the seat would be left vacant for, like, three or four weeks — not very long at all. A brief vacancy would not materially harm the interests of the Alabamese or of Americans as a whole. The cost of needlessly doing the primaries again, on the other hand, would be borne by the state taxpayer, and it must run into megabucks. Plus, what is being considered amounts to vetoing the choice of the state’s Republican primary voters, and will not encourage them to turn out next year. It would be simpler, cheaper, and less self-defeating to just let the Moore-Jones election go ahead.

  41. 41.

    But her emails!!!

    I’m not even sure the process would actually work that way. The special election was triggered by the stepping down of an elected Senator (Sessions) leaving a vacancy. Strange was appointed to serve as Senator until an election could be held to fill the Senate seat. Strange stepping down shouldn’t have any impact on an election that is being held to fill that Senate seat.

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    @GregB: Saw that, and fuck them — too little, too late. WikiLeaks was retweeting Gateway Pundit during the run-up to the election. It was obvious to anyone with the sentience of a turnip that WikiLeaks was all-in for Trump.

  44. 44.

    Cckids

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I hate to sort of defend Trump but I am confessing that I sometimes have to use two hands to take a drink of water.

    Oh, don’t! Do. Not. Empathize. I don’t care if he falls/gets pushed in front of a car & ends up paralyzed in a wheelchair unable to control his daily activities. I will point and laugh. Christ knows he’s more than earned anything bad karma throws his way. Mock him for eternity.

    I used to be a decent kind person. ??

  45. 45.

    different-church-lady

    @GregB:

    We Didn’t Know He Was Helping Trump…

    …because we are a bunch of dumb shits who can’t see blindingly obvious things.”

  46. 46.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Shit like “The Strange Plan” should be automatic grounds for removal from office.

    And the permanent loss of their sling ring.

  49. 49.

    Repatriated

    @OzarkHillbilly: And this is where I agree with you. The ACA repeal attempts were a sign of weakness, the VA elections were a bellweather, and this tax giveaway to the obscenely rich is a suicide run. It’s not something you do if you think you’ve got a lock on power. It’s what you do when you know you’re only getting one bite at the apple.

  50. 50.

    Belafon

    Strange isn’t the holder of the office. If he were, then there wouldn’t be a special election. His leaving doesn’t trigger anything other than the governor appointing a temporary replacement.

  52. 52.

    The Moar You Know

    The Intercept is kicking Assange to the curb.

    New piece posted.

    We Knew Assange Hated Clinton, We Didn’t Know He Was Helping Trump.

    @GregB: Yes, they did know. They absolutely knew.

    As for Assange, well, this was going to happen sooner or later – he’s running out of friends. Quickly. Were I him, I’d run my ass to Sweden and take my chances there, because they probably won’t extradite him here.

    ETA: or the really obvious choice, Russia. He can room with his buddy Snowden.

  53. 53.

    GregB

    On board……

    My fat fingers have never quite mastered the Iphone so I have a typo on nearly every post.

  58. 58.

    The Moar You Know

    The Brits are going to have their way with him first before the extradite him to Sweden.

    @Villago Delenda Est: That’s why I said “run”. If the Brits get their hands on him they will beat his ass dry of info and then send him straight to Gitmo. Which is an outcome I’d be just fine with.

  60. 60.

    geg6

    @hueyplong:

    Apparently the crazed presser his lawyer and campaign manager had last night demanding that the yearbook be handed over to them was good enough for ol’ Sean. He says let Alabama decide.

  61. 61.

    cervantes

    How can hating Clinton not be helping Trump? It’s an essentially binary election. That makes no sense, saying you didn’t understand that is a claim to be abysmally stupid.

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I hate to sort of defend Trump but I am confessing that I sometimes have to use two hands to take a drink of water. My hands are small to start with and arthritis has destroyed the grip in my right one, so if the glass is heavy or too big around, I need two hands.

    The real issue is that his staff failed him. Water should be available for him in whatever his preferred way to access it is–poured into a glass, a bottle, chilled, room temp, whatever. If it’s in a bottle, the top should be loosened so he doesn’t have to crack the seal. That bottle was far too big, which was a mistake as well. A smaller bottle would have been easier for him–or anyone–to handle. The whole thing was a staff failure. He can’t run his administration so even simple things–how to place water for him when he speaks–can be handled properly.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 11/15/17
    Senator Warren: GOP tax bill a “double punch” to middle class
    Senator Elizabeth Warren talks with Rachel Maddow about the consequences for the American middle class if the Republicans are able to pass their their tax/health care bill.

    THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 11/15/17
    Warren: New Consumer chief needs record resisting Wall Street
    Senator Elizabeth Warren talks with Rachel Maddow about the resignation of Richard Cordray from the Consumer Financial Protection Board and the kind of person the American people need to replace him.

  75. 75.

    trollhattan

    @Betty Cracker:
    Yup. He has some ‘splainin’ to do and regardless, it’s a drag on his future career and effectiveness. Of course if he were a Republican his colleagues would be giving him attaboys.

  77. 77.

    Gelfling 545

    @Repatriated: I’m not in favor of the media “managing” the timing of the news for political effect. If there’s something to be known, publish it and let the chips fall.

  78. 78.

    mike in dc

    51 seats makes it significantly harder for the GOP to accomplish literally anything legislatively, and makes it significantly easier for the Democrats to retake the Senate. The time to roll out a policy agenda is when it’s clear that the Republicans will pass nothing this term.

  80. 80.

    catclub

    @nonynony:

    I’ve been watching politics for 30+ years and I’m fairly sure that the answer is “no”.

    meanwhile Trump is packing the courts and the GOP senate is confirming, as fast as possible.

  82. 82.

    catclub

    @Gelfling 545:

    I’m not in favor of the media “managing” the timing of the news for political effect.

    you might also be sour that the NYT sat on Bush’s illegal domestic spying before the 2004 election.

  86. 86.

    satby

    Hey all, this is OT to the top, but final tally of Callie Transport donations through my shop for the non-PayPalers was $625! Pretty sure Reilyn got other donations too, so well done jackals! We got it covered!

  89. 89.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Gelfling 545: When they do “manage” it, they do so in deference to Rethugs. The WaPo did it for Bob Packwood back in the 80’s, waiting until after an election to drop the bomb. The Vichy Times has been doing this for decades.

  90. 90.

    germy

    I guess it really IS the Clinton News Network.

    During the Weinstein story, CNN had a clock counting the hours it took Hillary Clinton to respond. Seven days later and Donald Trump, the president and GOP leader, still hasn't said a single word on Roy Moore.— Matt McDermott (@mattmfm) November 16, 2017

  93. 93.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Amir Khalid: That’s enough of a pretext to grab him the instant he sets foot outside the Ecuadorian Embassy, and then he disappears into Met Police (and then MI6) custody.

  96. 96.

    Timurid

    @Chyron HR:

    Like every celebrity apology ever. There’s a silent “that I got caught” at the end of every sentence that starts with “I’m sorry.”

  97. 97.

    Humboldtblue

    @Betty Cracker:

    Nate Silver likes Dems chances of holding the seat through special election next year to serve the remainder of Franken’s term which ends in 2020. They have a deep bench and a Dem governor.

    He thinks Schumer will push for Franken’s resignation.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Amir Khalid: This is what got Bill Clinton in trouble. Even though Monica initiated the affair, Bill should have had the big head, not the little head, do the thinking. It doesn’t excuse his actions, but comparing that affair to what Roy Moore has evidently done repeatedly is obscene. Which is pretty much what I expect of Rethuglican slime in a desperate attempt to whatabout in classic KGB fashion.

  99. 99.

    catclub

    I just saw this. Do they know that Trump will be dead by then and not need that loophole any more?

    And while the Senate offers a permanent rate cut to corporations, breaks for so-called pass-through businesses would expire at the end of 2025.

  101. 101.

    germy

    @mike in dc:

    Just got a response from @alfranken: "I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann. As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't. I shouldn't have done it."— Asher Klein (@kleinstar) November 16, 2017

  102. 102.

    satby

    @Steeplejack: @trollhattan: I guess I’m insanely cynical, because at some point in almost every adults’ life we’ve all done something unwise that could be construed as harassment, usually while under the influence. Interesting that one of the most effective Democrats in Senate hearings is now getting accused.
    Squirrel.

  104. 104.

    Nicole

    I’m disappointed about Franken, but hardly surprised. Misogyny is really that pervasive, as anyone with a pair of XXs can attest to.

    I think the only one who would genuinely surprise me at this point is Jimmy Carter. Probably because of that Playboy interview when he confessed to having lusted in his heart many times. There are not many politicians who own up to doing something no one has accused them of.

  105. 105.

    LurkerNoLonger

    @germy: Are fucking kidding?! Fucking Christ. Last night I bit my lip, when will CNN put up a clock to see how long it takes Hillary to say, “ouch.”?

  107. 107.

    bemused

    @trollhattan:

    Rhetorical question. I never have figured out why so many are idiots and ignore real world consequences in their family, friend relationships and on their careers from being a stupid jerk.

    Years ago a friend’s husband, very nice, normal, decent guy, said to her, “Men are just not very evolved”.

  109. 109.

    Tim C.

    Franken should be done now. Has to be. The rules have changed. We can put his misdeed in context, we can say it was 11 years ago, we can agree with Franken politically and like him in some ways. But he’s done. Flip it around and ask what we would expect if he was a Republican. He’s done. Standards need to change and fast. He. Is. Done.

  110. 110.

    Boatboy_srq

    McConnell hasn’t been able to deliver anything besides partisan rancor since he promised the GOTea a one-term Obama Presidency. Why anyone would believe he can deliver now is beyond me. But then, I’m not a deluded Teahadi.

  111. 111.

    Humboldtblue

    @mike in dc:

    A news anchor on Thursday accused Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) of forcibly kissing her and groping her while she was asleep in an act documented by a photographer in 2006, before he ran for office.

    Where do we set the bar?

    For two days now numerous commenters here have staunchly defended Bill Clinton and blamed Lewisnky because she “initiated” the affair, conveniently ignoring the extraordinary imbalance of power in that relationship, one that we gleefully point out when the discussion of sexual impropriety is about anyone OTHER than Bill Clinton.

    Franken committed at a minimum sexual battery and you think he should remain in the Senate as a Democrat?

  113. 113.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @bemused: Impulse actions. I’m guilty of them as much as any other man. You regret them later, of course, when you have chance to reflect.

    Roy Moore has never reflected on his behavior, once.

  114. 114.

    The Moar You Know

    Flip it around and ask what we would expect if he was a Republican.

    @Tim C.: I would expect denials until people forget about it, and no personal or professional consequences. And then I would expect him to be elected President of the United States. That’s how we got the current guy, right?

    I’ll throw Franken out of office when the Republicans toss one of theirs, which will be never.

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I find myself hoping they DO ratfuck the election. It tells everyone every where what Repubs think of elections.

    Sadly, I think that anyone who would care about that already knows. So I don’t think we would gain anything.

    edit: But I admire your optimism!

  117. 117.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Humboldtblue: I don’t think my position that Monica initiated the affair is a defense of Bill Clinton. It’s an indication that Bill Clinton doesn’t think things through and acts on impulse. That’s on Bill, not on Monica. But it’s not the same as Roy Moore hanging out in a mall looking for teens to pursue. All the sudden consensual relationships are tossed into the same pile as forced ones. Bill didn’t threaten Monica’s job. Monica was pissed that she thought Bill led her on, told Linda Tripp, and Linda Tripp found a Clinton-hating person to spill it to and turn it into a scandal.

    It’s another surrender to whataboutism that ignores context and detail. I won’t stomach that.

  119. 119.

    mike in dc

    @Humboldtblue: The word “allegedly” is missing in your last sentence. Also, we’re talking misdemeanor sexual battery, committed while not a sitting Senator. The anchor could have reported it to military police, could have filed suit, etc. That was the first layer of accountability. The second layer is public naming and shaming–done. And he has promptly apologized. The third layer of accountability is the electoral process. Sen. Franken will face the voters again in 2020 and will be answerable to them then.
    I don’t disagree that there’s a new standard. But if we’re purging the ranks based on single incidents of forcible kissing, I suspect we’d have a lot of vacancies in House, Senate and Gubernatorial seats. I’m going to wait to see if there are additional allegations before supporting the idea of resignation. Your threshold may vary.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    @different-church-lady:

    We Knew Assange Hated Clinton, We Didn’t Know He Was Helping Trump.

    Translation:

    We Knew Assange Hated Clinton, Now We Can No Longer Pretend That We Didn’t Know He Was Helping Trump.

    edited

  123. 123.

    Fair Economist

    @Humboldtblue: The Franken accusation is a very different thing than the Clinton affair. Clinton didn’t use the power differential to obtain sexual favors. Franken, according to the accusation, did.

    It’s premature to take action on an accusation only a few hours after it’s made if there’s not some urgent safety issue, which there isn’t. In a few days the situation will be clearer. If Franken really is that kind of guy there will be MANY more accusations.

  124. 124.

    martian

    The Franken photo appears to be Franken miming a grope without touching the sleeping woman. That’s terrible and tasteless, but not assault. The woman appears to believe she was groped, though. I wonder if there’s more to this?

    I don’t really know what I think right now beyond – Fuck you, Franken! Why? Why are you an asshole, too?!

  125. 125.

    WaterGirl

    @trollhattan: I’ve been waiting for something like this to happen. The other side will start with false accusations until there are so many accusations being flung around that it will neutralize the whole thing with a take of “how can we know if any of this is true?”. I fear at that point we will go back to business as usual, where it’s kind of accepted that women are fair game to predators.

  127. 127.

    bemused

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Moore is an incurable predator, imo. His whole life after childhood has been compulsively hunting out girls every day. He is a danger to the public.

    Years ago I worked at a car dealership when a guy trying out a vehicle never came back with it. Dealership called police and later we found out the guy had been following a woman in a car who then stopped at a gas station for gas about 45 miles away from the dealership. He started putting gas in dealership vehicle when woman left the gas station and the guy immediately drove off after her. The gas station attendant saw this and called the police. He kept following the woman for several miles until he was stopped by the police. I think the woman became aware she was being stalked at some point. We also learned that this guy had been stalking women in another part of the state. Very creepy sick guy and I think Moore is the same.

  129. 129.

    WaterGirl

    @martian:

    The Franken photo appears to be Franken miming a grope without touching the sleeping woman.

    That’s how I saw the photo, too.

    In 8th grade we would write with a marker on somebody’s face and then pose them in a silly position. Oh wait, I think I hear the police knocking on my door right now for battery or some such thing.

    It was a tasteless joke by Franken. Period.

  131. 131.

    martian

    @bemused: I’m wondering how a guy who was so compulsive that he openly and constantly harassed girls at a mall suddenly stopped the behavior cold upon marriage. Seems very unlikely, but no allegations so far post-date Moore’s marriage.

    Credible allegations from after Moore was married would be nailgunning the coffin shut on Moore’s electoral hopes for at least the current election. Can’t say for forever, though, with evangelicals.

  133. 133.

    Cckids

    @Humboldtblue: @Tim C.:

    Franken should be done now. Has to be. The rules have changed. We can put his misdeed in context, we can say it was 11 years ago, we can agree with Franken politically and like him in some ways. But he’s done. Flip it around and ask what we would expect if he was a Republican. He’s done. Standards need to change and fast. He. Is. Done.

    Sure. He’s gone. The day Trump resigns.

  138. 138.

    patrick II

    @aimai:
    The point is also to get the seat. Lessons are nice, but a tied Senate is more immediately useful considering the legislation that has been coming down the road.

  139. 139.

    StringOnAStick

    @Steeplejack:

    Plus things are even more fraught when your previous job was “professional comedian.”

    How about tacking on that you’ve just been in a war zone entertaining troops, which tend to be overwhelmingly male, macho and horny? Some USO shows I’ve seen film of would make me afraid to go to the restroom unaccompanied given how a mainstay is always gorgeous women to “show” to the troops. I’m not excusing Franken, but at this point it looks like a photo taken in bad taste but not an actual grope. PS: I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot worse but since it was the swinging’ 70’s and 80’s, there was no way I would have considered reporting the events, especially being in a traditionally male profession at the time.

  140. 140.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @? Martin: Exactly. The coalition between forced birth Catholics and protestant evangelicals was motivated by Carter’s IRS looking into the “Christian Academies” set up as a reaction to desegregation.

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