Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Fight them, without becoming them!

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Friday Morning Open Thread: If They’re That “Offended,” You Know They’re Lying

Friday Morning Open Thread: If They’re That “Offended,” You Know They’re Lying

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Orrin don’t care, he’s not running for re-election anyways. Just as well the Repubs can shove him in front of the cameras to act all indignant about Sherrod Brown telling the truth about what Orrin’s GOP buddies — or, more accurately, their funders — want to do to the rest of us.
.

As we wait for the late-Friday news dump, what else is on the agenda for the day?
***********

(Matt Davies via GoComics.com)

Reader Interactions

260Comments

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    It’s a godawful bill. If it’s defeated, the Republicans are screwed. If it passes, we’re all screwed, Republicans included.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    May attaching ACA repeal in the Senate be the wafer-thin mint that explodes the Mr. Creosote of a disgustingly piggish tax bill.

  4. 4.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    a bill that raises taxes on millions of families to finance a tax cut for millionaires

    Now we know why Susan Sarandon said Trump would be better than Hillary.

  10. 10.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    I’m old enough to remember when increasing the debt was unthinkable cuz “WE’RE BROKE!” and “GREECE!!1!” and “WE SHOULDN’T PASS DEBT ONTO OUR GRANDKIDS!”

  18. 18.

    Baud

    The fact that so few R’s voted against the House tax plan tells me they either have given up surviving 2018, or think their only hope is a massive infusion of donor cash

    I am starting to think the plan is to allow a big win for the Dems in 2018, then attack the Dem Congress for two years with the help of Russian financed elements on the left, and then win it all back in 2020.

    I wish I could say our people are not gullible enough to fall for it, but….

  19. 19.

    Montanareddog

    But the GOP members of the Senate Finance Committee just rammed through their tax bill on a partisan vote, under cover of darkness. This process is an embarrassment.

    I wonder how old Johnny ‘Regular Order’ McCain feels about these manoeuvres? Or will the prospect of being able to leave his wife’s hard-inherited money tax-free to his children outweigh any ‘concerns’?

  20. 20.

    JPL

    @Baud: It’s not gonna happen unless the economy tanks. The republicans will have so much money to campaign on, that the average citizen will be believe that dems eat puppies.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    I’m upset about the tax bill. Immediately after they pass this they go after “entitlements”- what idiot Trump refers to as “welfare reform”. I’m pretty sure they’ve managed to convince the fucking moron that Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security are “welfare” since he keeps babbling about cutting “welfare” and welfare hardly exists anymore.

    This is the pay off for the Trump donors. This is what they sold their souls for. That they are getting rewarded really rankles.

    Brace yourselves for a new round of race to the bottom- a gutted, cleaned-out lower and middle class propping up a decadent and corrupt upper class. They won’t stop until they grab everything.

  24. 24.

    Lapassionara

    @Kay: If the Senate bill passes, it means a $25 million cut to Medicare. This bill goes after entitlements.

    I hate that term. We earned these benefits!

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    This is the pay off for the Trump donors. This is what they sold their souls for. That they are getting rewarded really rankles.

    I’m sure they’ll say the tax cuts didn’t go far enough, claim the Republicans sold them out, and stop supporting them in 2018.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    So the Atlantic has decided to hire someone to run a series of anti-Hillary posts. I guess they figure the NYT model is profitable.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    @Lapassionara:

    25 million isn’t that much. I bet it’s a trial balloon to see if there’s opposition or if anyone notices. This was kind of my Trump nightmare. Trump getting flim-flammed by Paul Ryan. I didn’t realize how dumb Trump is- the extent of his stubborn stupidity and refusal to learn anything about his job. This is also what GOP donors and Congress were hoping for when they backed him- a compliant easy mark to carry their economic agenda. The fact is Trump wouldn’t have had supporters if he had run on the Ryan economic agenda but he’s too dumb and weak to know they’re using him. It’s the worst of both worlds- we get the racist, mean-spirited “populist” president and the far Right congressional economic agenda. You’ll see shit like we’ve seen this week- celebrating elephant killing along with cuts to Medicare. The elephant killing is what Trump gets for his horrible corrupt family. The Medicare cuts are what Ryan gets.

  35. 35.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @debbie: Pretty good timing.

    ETA: Sometimes you just get lucky taking pictures. The more you take, the better your chances of getting lucky. Taking lots of pictures is the hardest thing when you’re used to film.

  36. 36.

    debbie

    @satby:

    That site is my first stop every morning. It keeps me mindful of my smallness in the universe.

    By the way, Sherrod Brown is a treasure. If we’re ever to win back blue collar workers, Sherrod should lead the charge.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    Well, I’m waiting for Cordray and I plan to help with that. One can mitigate a lot of federal Trump garbage by winning some states. It’s not like it’s either/or. A lively state race brings out voters and then those voters can be persuaded to vote for congressional Democrats.

    Poll workers say Republicans vote the whole ballot and Democrats don’t. I don’t know if it’s true- I don’t see the ballots- but they do and they say Republicans vote every race while Democrats just vote the top of the ticket. If we could just change that behavior it would be helpful.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    I never fell for the Assange Wikileaks con. The credibility of the source is as important as the information.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    They tossed Trump the golf course deduction to keep him quiet, the way you’d throw a guard dog a piece of meat to distract him.

  43. 43.

    satby

    @Lapassionara: we didn’t just earn those benefits, we paid for them every single paycheck. But since Republicans have raided and stolen the pensions of union workers and public sector workers for years without much public outcry, they’re ready to try to grab the big pots of money now.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    I was impressed with Virginia and their focus on the delegates (statehouse) – they seemed to have as much energy around individual state reps as they did around the governors race. That’s the way it should be.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    The private jet subsidy. Jesus Christ. It’s a plutocracy. A friend of mine told me there are sometimes 200 private jets coming in for Michigan football games. 200.

  51. 51.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Baud: it took SIX whole days for the media to launch “WHAT ABOUT CLENIS” to defend Moore.

    they’re slipping. It’s usually only takes 24 hours for them to input the launch codes.

  52. 52.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Speaking of, has anyone heard anything about Price paying back any of that $1 million he spent on travel before he was dumped?

  53. 53.

    Lapassionara

    @Kay: Yes. Trump pledged during the primary to keep SS and Medicare. This, plus the overt racism, was part of his appeal to older voters. But older voters do not even know what this tax bill does to their benefits. As I understand it, even some of the senators voting on it do not know it’s impact on these programs.

    Plus, Baud says billion. That sounds like a lot to me.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    Sergey Kislyak says it would take him more than 20 minutes to name all of the Trump officials he’s met with or spoken to on the phone because ‘the list is so long’.

    They all lied about Russia contacts. Over and over and over, many of them under oath.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I think the people who picked Jared as the most vulnerable current member of the administration will turn out to be right.

    Jesus but he’s crooked. He really takes that nepotism ball and runs with it.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    Maybe it was just online or among fanatics but it was so nice to see people so informed about statehouse reps! They’re usually ignored.

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:
    There are three folks with the most stink on them:
    Flynn
    Attorney General White Citizens Council
    And Kushner

    All the conflicts can be placed at their feet.
    And, I want all of them to do the perp walk.

  72. 72.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Barbara: Can’t find the roll call but these were the GOP No votes:

    Opposing the bill were New York Reps. Dan Donovan, John Faso, Pete King, Elise Stefanik and Lee Zeldin; New Jersey Reps. Rodney Frelinghuysen, Leonard Lance, Frank LoBiondo and Chris Smith, and California Reps. Darrell Issa, Tom McClintock and Dana Rohrabacher.

    via the Hill.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    @Amir Khalid: Right. I’m aware of her oeuvre and ignore her. But The Altantic bears responsibility for choosing to publish that instead of so many other useful topics.

  75. 75.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Lapassionara:

    This bill goes after entitlements.

    I hate that term. We earned these benefits!

    That’s what “entitlements” means. It’s just that “entitlement” ended up becoming used as a disparaging word for an unearned feeling of deserving something, and Republicans played the association to the hilt. They figured out that hardly anyone knows “entitlements” means “Social Security and Medicare”–nobody wants to cut those, but cutting entitlements sounds good.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    As many of you probably know sexual assault and harassment are a big issue in schools now. It’s no longer “okay” to bother girls in public schools, like it was when I was in school. This is student to student – not adults. Anyway, it’s huge and these kids will be growing up and going to work and they’ll have learned from the get-go that this is not workplace behavior, which is a good thing. But right now it’s this huge chaotic mess where no one knows where the lines are or what the sanctions should be.

    I’m on a school committee and it’s appalling what has happened to some of these girls- being grabbed, cornered in stairwells, one was pulled into the boy’s restroom as a “joke”.

    Everything that happens in this country lands in public schools. Everything.

  82. 82.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    Just as well the Repubs can shove him in front of the cameras to act all indignant about Sherrod Brown telling the truth about what Orrin’s GOP buddies — or, more accurately, their funders — want to do to the rest of us.

    I’ve said repeatedly over the past year that the funders and the right have no physical fear, and they may need some. Running a mouth in a legislative chamber, writing an article, participating in a nonviolent protest invite derision and guffaw of “suck it up, snowflakes” and mockery of the worst excesses of the progressive purists by saying things like “triggered much?”.

    I’m now convinced that in the era of Citizens United, weakened unions and plutocrat donors that fear needs to be palpable and routine for those donors to recognize the harm they pose.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s just that “entitlement” ended up becoming used as a disparaging word for an unearned feeling of deserving something

    as in, “he acts like he’s entitled to something.”

  84. 84.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Amir Khalid: Oh gawd. That’s who it is. She’s a wingnut who appeared on Bill Maher one night screaming colleges have gone to hell for being politically correct not tolerating sexist/racist jokes. See, demeaning women with misogynist humor is healthy, but consensual sex among adults is wrong.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    There will be false accusations and excessively draconian punishments in schools while this gets sorted out. The trick is not to lose your fucking mind, as people tend to do when children are involved. We could do this well. That’s possible. We don’t have to veer wildly from “rampant unchecked sexual harassment in schools” to “suspending everyone” although having watched a few of these societal shifts I’m fairly confident we’ll go crazy and fuck it up and then have to backtrack.

    The accused have rights and get process. Going insane won’t help anyone.

  88. 88.

    tobie

    Does anyone know the Senate’s timeline on the help-a-billionaire-starve-the-middle-class tax bill? It looks to me like they’re rushing to get this done before Thanksgiving.

    I’m wondering if the Dems can’t saturate the airwaves running ads about what’s getting cut and whose taxes will go up in this bill like Tom Steyer has done with his ad to impeach Trump. Republican-linked organizations ran ads for Grouch. We can certainly do the same. This tax bill is ripe for populist outrage.

  89. 89.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Baud: He was on Face the Nation last sunday trying to take the credit for Virginia’s landslide, while simultaneously trashing the party. In short it was all about him and nothing about issues. Pathetic useful idiot.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    although having watched a few of these societal shifts I’m fairly confident we’ll go crazy and fuck it up and then have to backtrack.

    What disgusts me is that the MRA types in Reddit love to obsess over false rape accusations (which are rampant, in their telling) and they may now have an opening to go mainstream just like the Nazis did.

  91. 91.

    Another Scott

    @tobie: No linky, but McConnell has said the vote will be after Thanksgiving with the goal of getting the final bill to Donnie by Christmas. He and his monsters should get an ear-full over their turkey dinners…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    @tobie:

    I believe the timeline is after Thanksgiving.

    This tax bill is ripe for populist outrage.

    There’s no populism in the U.S. except white identity populism. I wish our side would let this fantasy go.

  94. 94.

    germy

    AUSTIN, Texas — Democratic mega-donor Steve Mostyn, a powerful Texas trial lawyer who was among the nation’s largest backers of liberal causes and candidates, died after what his wife says was “a sudden onset and battle with a mental health issue.” He was 46.

    Suicide

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:

    Immediately after they pass this they go after “entitlements”- what idiot Trump refers to as “welfare reform”.

    I think this will be known as ‘History’s Greatest Pivot’: five minutes after voting to bankrupt our country so the rich can have more, they turn and go, “Wait, we don’t have nearly enough money to pay for all this ‘welfare’! We’d better cut everything in half, or more! Except defense…gotta be prepared to repel Jina and ‘Rocket Man’ “

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    This isn’t rape – that’s the college campus frame- it’s boys harassing girls and girls being unwilling to put up with what was once ignored or treated as “normal”. It’s going to be difficult to set the new norms because all of this grabbing and cat-calling and shit was just considered part of high school (and, actually middle school) and now it’s not. What’s fascinating to me is this is BOTTOM UP. The GIRLS have different standards. It’s amazing to watch.

    ALL of it could be put in the same frame- “stop treating other people like shit” but it’ll take a while to get there. All of these rules and norms should have been internalized in kindergarten. You can’t grab or harm other people in school, because the girls have a right to be free of this shit that trumps your right to engage in it. That one rule covers the whole spectrum from bullying to sexual harassment.

  98. 98.

    narya

    I’ve been thinking about Franken and the review he requested and to which apparently McConnell agreed. I’d say that it puts McConnell between a rock and a hard place. If they decide to censure Franken for something he did before he was a Senator, they would need to make sure their own closets are clean (and good luck with that). I realize that, in general, IOKIYAR, but the optics would be terrible, especially with Moore in the wings. And if they try to argue that he should resign, well, same thing. And of course Twitler couldn’t keep his thumbs to himself for even 24 hours, which further makes the point.

  99. 99.

    tobie

    @Another Scott: Thanks for the info. I don’t know how Dems can get the word out that this bill is a tax hike for the 99% but they better get busy with a media blitz. Do it at the state level if that’s more effective. Given how weird the mood in the country is right now I don’t think emphasizing that this is a tax break that helps the 1% will work for Democrats. But focusing on whom it hurts should education and energize people.

  101. 101.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    I’m hoping the dumb-ass voters will wake up when they go after Medicare and Social Security. That’s been the pattern. They wake up when their stuff is at risk.

  102. 102.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    You can’t grab or harm other people in school, because the girls have a right to be free of this shit that trumps your right to engage in it.

    I see what you did there.

  103. 103.

    Another Scott

    Reuters: Ivanka is in trouble, also too:

    Exclusive: How an alleged fraudster in Panama, working with Donald Trump’s daughter, helped make Trump’s first international hotel venture a success. The broker was in business with a money-launderer and two criminals from the former Soviet Union. Then he fled.

    This is my shocked, shocked face.

    “Follow the money!”

    Have a good Friday, everyone.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105.

    Peale

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: her spiel is to claim to speak for stay at home mom‘s who are tired of all this feminist pressure to have careers. She’s lazy as fuck as a journalist, though. She wrote a long screed against Gardens in schools (and the liberal women like Alice Walker and Michelle Obama who support them) in which she pretended her outrage was on behalf of Hispanic and African American children who are forced by white teachers to slave away in the fields. The outraged Hispanic parent though was all in her head. Imagined. Even though she lives in California where Hispanic shouldn’t be that hard to find, she couldn’t be bothered to interview or find one actual agrrieved party.

  110. 110.

    tobie

    @Baud: For a variety of reasons, I haven’t watched TV all week so I’m not up on what the TV pundits and talking heads are saying. I will call Maryland’s only Republican representative (Andy Harris) again to complain about his vote for this bill which hurts his constituents. He’s a member of the Freedom Caucus so my call won’t do any good but I’ll register my dismay all the same.

  111. 111.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Peale:

    she couldn’t be bothered to interview or find one actual agrrieved party.

    Maybe she couldn’t (they pay people to do that kind of work).

  117. 117.

    Thoughtful David

    @germy: This is why I no longer subscribe to FTFWaPo. Why the fuck are they giving this fuck ink? They can’t go out of business fast enough for me.

  118. 118.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: Secretary Clinton has made it plain that she will no longer be a political figure so I don’t get the point of running anti-Clinton articles now.

  128. 128.

    Ohio Mom

    @Kay: I think the model is students with disabilities. We went from the extreme in many places of not allowing disabled kids to go to school or isolating them in separate facilities, to today’s full inclusion.

    The result of including them is that many of the young people I see are very accepting of their peers with disabilities. I saw this just yesterday in the local diner my kid and I went to. The young woman behind the counter recognized my autistic kid from high school was excited to see him again and greeted him warmly — with not a drop of condescension.

    If we can get students to be cool with their disabled peers, I think we can be pretty confident we can teach the guys to be respectful to the gals. We’re teaching them to abandon their ableism, we can do the same with their sexism.

    Why I am so uncharacteristically optimistic this morning, I can’t say.

  129. 129.

    germy

    Can Hatch really be this delusional? If so, it’s sad & alarming. Accuses Brown of lying & grandstanding “right at the end of this,” “this” being a hearing that’s shamefully, purposefully breakneck pace is designed to jam thru a wet kiss to the rich. He’s either a liar or unwell https://t.co/Tslno9N5yL— Andy Richter (@AndyRichter) November 17, 2017

  130. 130.

    Immanentize

    Many Republicans have come out and said they have to pass this bill or their donors will close their wallets or that they were explicitly told to pass the legislation in order to receive future contributions. Why isn’t this just straight up quid pro quo bribery?

  132. 132.

    Patricia Kayden

    The Republican tax cut is not popular which is something that Democrats need to keep reminding their colleagues on the other side as the Senate considers it. It’s one thing not to care about how Democrats feel. It’s another thing to not care about how the American public feels. The latter will bite you in the butt in the next election.

  135. 135.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ll be fair to the media and acknowledge that this dreck gets them ratings and clicks. That’s why I didn’t provide a link to Amir. Shame on us for consuming this bullshit.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay:

    It’s the worst of both worlds- we get the racist, mean-spirited “populist” president and the far Right congressional economic agenda. You’ll see shit like we’ve seen this week- celebrating elephant killing along with cuts to Medicare. The elephant killing is what Trump gets for his horrible corrupt family. The Medicare cuts are what Ryan gets.

    QFT. We need to do everything we can to stop this shitty bill. The good news is, another goose egg on the scoreboard would drive Trump batshit around the bend.

  137. 137.

    tobie

    @Baud: that’s the scary part. There are forces on the left that want to make sure that the Clintons remain front and center. And Kirstin Gillibrand has now stepped in it by saying Bill Clinton should have resigned. How large do they think the Our Revolution base is? When the Clinton name first reappeared this week, I thought new allegations had been made, which would have legitimately put this story front and center again. But, no, there’s nothing that jump-started this story but a desire on the left to find a new way to kill the Clintons and by extension the Dem establishment, so they can remake the party. We really don’t have the luxury of a circular firing squad at the moment. Our democracy is in peril.

  138. 138.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: I can’t think of one example of a liberal group overtly saying we will give you contributions if you pass my bill. The point is not that there is something discussed as vague as “support,” these folks are no longer being subtle. Pass this to get paid..

  139. 139.

    Baud

    @tobie:

    When the Clinton name first reappeared this week, I thought new allegations had been made, which would have legitimately put this story front and center again.

    Yep. And we had at least one commenter here who responded by wishing that Bill would go away, ignoring the fact that Bill has gone away for the most part.

    The sad truth is that if we end up in serfdom, it is at least partially deserved.

  140. 140.

    Betty Cracker

    @Thoughtful David: It’s a letter to the editor, and it makes the writer look like the antediluvian cretin he is. I think WaPo has been pretty damn good about covering Trump. There are certainly aspects of the paper that suck big green gators, such as every Marc Thiessen column. There are hacks for sure. But they’ve blown the NYT out of the water, IMO. Fahrenhold alone is worth the price of the subscription.

  143. 143.

    MomSense

    @Lapassionara:

    Technically the word entitlement means rights. The problem is it also means the belief that a person merits special treatment. It’s probably too late to reclaim the first meaning.

  144. 144.

    Betty Cracker

    @tobie: Talk about a circular firing squad — if you read what Gillebrand said, she was answering a direct question about the Clinton-Lewinsky thing in the context of these latest sexual harassment/misconduct issues, and her point was that attitudes have evolved since 1996 and that it would be appropriate for a POTUS to resign in a scandal like that today. She immediately turned it to the issue of the sexual predator in the WH now. Her folks even called the NYT to clarify that Gillebrand was talking about today’s standards, not suggesting that Bill Clinton should go back in a time machine and resign in 1996. But the click-bait headline is the draw.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: No because the person with the power to vote does not know about it and is not acting on their threat. Think about Abscam — or that Congressman from California — votes for cash. Some Senators are admitting for them it is votes for cash, no?

    ETA Duke Cunningham?

    Further ETA: I know the Supreme Court has made the crime of bribery harder to prove, but politically it is still powerful.

  148. 148.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    Here’s the thing. Most of us Dems are true values voters. If anything, our big donors (few as they may be) are actually contributing in the hopes of getting policies that go against their self interest. I would argue that most of us are donating or choosing not to donate because we are motivated by the interests of the greater good even as it may mean higher taxes or other outcomes that are not good for our individual interests.

    The big Republican donors are giving money with the expectation that their specific interests will be fulfilled knowing damn well that 99+% of Americans will be adversely affected.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    No because the person with the power to vote does not know about it and is not acting on their threat.

    You don’t think Dems monitor Balloon Juice religiously?

  151. 151.

    kindness

    I have yet to see how Republicans in the Senate can overcome the Byrd Amendment. The whole deficits can’t rise thing. Unless Republicans are willing to ignore the CBO’s scoring and issue their own pixie dust one or if Republicans think they can ignore the requirement for 60 votes and try to do this with 50, it ends the filibuster either way.

    I thought enough Republicans wouldn’t want that. I thought enough Republicans would realize their party’s pronouncements that this wouldn’t go against the Byrd Amendment or the filibuster rules were lies & wrong that we’d all agree it will take 60 votes to pass this monstrosity. For now I guess I gave them too much credit (again). If this passes on 51 votes it is the end of the filibuster. The only thing I can see is Republicans will deny that no matter what and when Democrats take over in 2018 and keep using majority rule, Republicans will blame Democrats for killing the filibuster. The media of course would ‘both sides’ it.

  154. 154.

    tobie

    @Betty Cracker: I read the transcript. She could have handled the matter more deftly than she did, which is why she had to revise her statement to the Times. The larger issue of why the Times and other media outlets are focusing this week on Bill Clinton’s sexual scandals in the absence of new allegations is still puzzling for me.

  155. 155.

    Bruce K

    @Betty Cracker: And let’s not forget that Marty Baron already blew the lid off the Boston Catholic Church abuse cover-up back when he was with the Globe. The only reason that Hollywood might hesitate at making a sequel to Spotlight is that it was already made in the 1970s, and it was called All The President’s Men. (I’m hoping for that bit of history to repeat itself, or at least rhyme. Except that “impeachment and conviction” doesn’t quite rhyme with “I resign”.)

    (On the other hand, “rhyme” does rhyme with “resign”.)

    (Cripes, it’s been a long year this week.)

  156. 156.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: It’s what the media has always done. The Repubs have mastered the art of feeding the media what they want. DEMs can do the same. It’s time we did.

  157. 157.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think 2020 might be the year of the big anti-corruption movement/candidates. Part of Sander’s allure was that, no? I just fear that it will primarily be a campaign by Democrats against Democrats.

  159. 159.

    BBA

    @tobie: It makes sense to me. For years we’ve turned blind eyes to sexual misconduct by powerful men. For two months we’ve finally been taking them to task. Not everything is a ratfuck – or do you think the Times’ story on Weinstein was too?

    And yes, Trump is the elephant in the room. Unfortunately there’s not a damn thing that anyone can do about him right now.

  160. 160.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MomSense:

    If anything, our big donors (few as they may be) are actually contributing in the hopes of getting policies that go against their self interest.

    OK, gotta push back a little on this. Our big donors seem to think a functioning civil society is in their self interest. I happen to think they are correct. The GOP big donors seem to think all the money they can possibly get is the only thing that matters and “Fuck you.”

  161. 161.

    debit

    @Thoughtful David: Are you insane? I’m seriously asking here. Otherwise, troll or so egregiously stupid that I wonder that you can even find your keyboard. The Washington Post has had some of the best, hardest hitting pieces on this administration and you can’t wait for them to go out of business?

  162. 162.

    Bill

    Saw Hatch’s staged anger last night. It’s infuriating to listen to him talk about being “lower middle class” 70 years ago while trying to make the current middle class poor. But equally infuriating are his calls for bipartisanship. Whenever a Republican calls for bipartisanship it means “You guys would just do what we want.”

  163. 163.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    a bill that raises taxes on millions of families to finance a tax cut for millionaires

    I thought it was they are raising the taxes on millionaires for billionaires. Which has to be the worst of both worlds when it comes to taxes.

  165. 165.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @BBA: From Sarah Silverman (whom I dearly love):

    Sarah Silverman has delivered an emotional response to sexual misconduct allegations against friend, collaborator and fellow comedian Louis CK, saying she was at once “very angry” for the victims and the culture that enabled it, but “also sad, because he’s my friend”.

    Speaking to camera ahead of this week’s episode of her series I Love You, America, Silverman acknowledged how difficult it has been to grapple with her longterm friendship with CK and the allegations against him, which she said are true.

    “I’ve of course been asked to comment, and in full honesty I really, I really really really, don’t want to,” she said. “I wish I could sit this one out. But … if it’s mentionable, it’s manageable. So I’m going to address the elephant masturbating in the room.”

  168. 168.

    tobie

    @BBA: No, I don’t think stories about sexual harassment are ratfvcks and object to this characterization. What has pushed all these stories to the front page of late is accusers coming forth. If Trump had new accusers, we’d be talking about his harassment of women, too. We’re not because as far as the media is concerned there is nothing new to report, so my question still stands: What’s motivated the new focus on Clinton? Did he prey on subordinates as Governor of Arkansas and then POTUS? Hell, yes. That’s not what I’m questioning.

  170. 170.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Just too fucking funny:

    Police in Detroit are investigating a fight that started when officers raided a suspected drug den, only to discover the “dealers” were undercover police from another precinct. Two officers sustained minor injuries, including a black eye.

    “This is probably one of the most embarrassing things I’ve seen in this department since I’ve been appointed police chief,” James Craig told reporters. “In fact, I’d have to tell you it is probably one of the most disappointing things I’ve experienced in my entire 40-year career.” During the botched operation, 12th precinct officers, who were posing as drug dealers, were held at gunpoint by police from the 11th precinct. “I am thankful that no one was more seriously injured,” Craig said.

    A video of the incident, which took place on 9 November, has been been released as part of the investigation. The bodycam footage shows one officer shouting: “Don’t put your hand on your gun” while another says his team has a search warrant. As the brawl develops, the bodycam is knocked off the officer filming. It is believed a lack of communication over the existence of the warrant led to the problem.

    Two officers have been placed on restrictive duties and a supervisor from the special operations team has been reassigned pending the outcome of the investigation.

  172. 172.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @tobie:

    What’s motivated the new focus on Clinton?

    I repeat, Pavlov’s dog. It’s the same as yelling “Squirrel!!!” in a room full of beagles.

  173. 173.

    Spanky

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Baud: It’s what the media has always done. The Repubs have mastered the art of feeding the media what they want. DEMs can do the same. It’s time we did.

    You can’t ignore the fact that the vast majority of the media – particularly TV – is owned and controlled by large corporations that have a direct two-way pipeline to both the Republican funders and elected officials. It’s hard to get your message out when it’s being actively suppressed.

  175. 175.

    MomSense

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I see how you are defining it. I guess my feeling on this is that our big donors see the common good as more important than and encompassing their self interest. Maybe I should specify economic interest? There again I think we see mutual economic interest as more important that individual economic interest. To simplify, Dems are we over me, and Republicans are me and to hell with everyone else.

  177. 177.

    Immanentize

    @germy: Oh Jeez. I guess the Trump administration is giving up on the “no collusion” argument.

    Meanwhile, collusion with a foreign government certainly is a crime if it includes anything of value.

  178. 178.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @tobie: The New York Times is leading the charge against Bill Clinton. Their reporters, including those not involved in the story, are tweeting the story furiously. There is a lot I like about the New York Times. I’ve tried to stay out of the FYNYT here, but this is ridiculous.

  179. 179.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: yep.
    The Clinton chase and impeachment was an attempt by Republicans to nullify an election they lost. Led by a bunch of Republicans who had also had sexual encounters outside of their marriages. Now people only remember that Bill was a horndog, not that the opposition party was trying to undo an election.

  180. 180.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t even love animals they way you guys love animals and the picture of the ridiculous Trump with that magnificent animal’s TAIL makes me sick. I’d like to see him RUN from the elephant. Flailing and trying to escape from this powerful beast who can squash him like a bug. They can’t go LOOK at the elephant? They have to slaughter it?

  182. 182.

    Thoughtful David

    @debit:
    No, and I’m not a troll. Yes the WaPo is better than the FTFNYT, but that is damning with faint praise. Yes, they have produced some hard-hitting articles, the best in the US press. But that is a very low bar. Their front page is still bothsiderist as hell, and they keep giving lying ink to liars like Bob Marshall to lie with, which they just let stand. They want the clicks. They are garbage.
    And never forget how many years they worked, and how hard they worked, to destroy Democrats and sow the ground for Republicans and Trump. Right up to the week before last year’s election.
    Don’t get all starry-eyed with what they’ve done in 2017. Give them a Democrat in the presidency and they’ll go right back to favoring them.

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Spanky:

    It’s hard to get your message out when it’s being actively suppressed.

    If that were true, none of us would know anything.

  184. 184.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: I suspected that…. I do think “anti-corruption” has serious resonance which will only intensify over the next year. Wilbur Ross, Kushner, Pruitt, Zinke and on and on — they are all corrupt AF. Not to mention the Corruption in Chief.

  186. 186.

    Kay

    AP Politics‏Verified account
    @AP_Politics
    1h1 hour ago
    More
    Trump, who once bragged to Access Hollywood’s Billy Bush about grabbing women’s crotches without their consent, says allegations against Al Franken are “real bad.”

    Unfuckingbelievable. Trump is really going to skate on his own sexual assault WHILE scolding other people. The sitting president is untouchable which is bad enough but his low quality administration feel emboldened enough to weigh in. A pack of scumbag liars. Every one of them.

  187. 187.

    Jeffro

    @germy: At any and every point in this whole disgusting farce, it would be helpful if the media just asked Repubs, “So you’d be okay if Democrats did __________, correct?” Any of it: working with a hostile foreign power, taking foreign money, excusing the multiple reported sexual assaults of our leader, accepting such incredibly rank stupidity/race-baiting/mental instability because she’s ‘our’ gal, kissing dictators’ asses, insulting vets and Gold Star families, calling fellow Americans ‘sons of bitches’, and so on.

    Repubs, how would it go with you if Hillz had been pursuing business deals with China for decades, kept excusing everything they did (including ‘annexing’ parts of neighboring countries), kept denying they had hacked our election even though 17 agencies said they did, and had a gazillion contacts between her campaign and Chinese agents (ones she initially denied). What if Chelsea had been in contact with WikiLeaques, which then subsequently bombarded our press with hacked RNC emails?

    That’s just one example. If Hillz had been accused by a dozen guys of grabbing their goodies, or ogling naked teen boys backstage at a gymnastics competition she sponsored, that’s another.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    Hey, so if we’re investigating Franken for the harassment don’t we have to investigate the sitting president?

    Or is Donald Trump completely untouchable? How can this possibly stand, this blatant a double standard? At the same time, we’re planning on exempting the president?

    What a joke.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    The allegations against Clinton were at least investigated. So all this time later we have a LOWER standard for Trump?

    ONLY Donald Trump escapes sanction for this? Everyone else, from Franken to actors, gets hurt EXCEPT for the president?

  191. 191.

    Bill

    @Kay:

    Hey, so if we’re investigating Franken for the harassment don’t we have to investigate the sitting president?

    In a sane world? Yes.

    But the Republicans are in control of congress.

  192. 192.

    Kay

    Did the Trump crime cartel pay off on any harassment claims? Because I bet they did. Someone could look into that.

  194. 194.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @tobie: I visit a couple conservative leaning sites with liberal readerships. When ever the topic under discussion is the latest GOP monstrosity, it is only a matter of time before a conservative shows up and says, “Yeah but Clinton….” It is their answer to every thing.

  195. 195.

    mike in dc

    @Kay: Here’s a thought. There’s pretty much zero chance of Trump being investigated for sexual misconduct while the Republicans control both houses of Congress. But if the Democrats control at least one chamber in 2019, subpoena away!

  196. 196.

    mai naem mobile

    @tobie: because it’s too hard to compare Moore to Robert Packwood or Mark Foley. Those cases are closer to Moores situation than Bill Clinton but ofcourse theyre both Republicans.

    I just find it real special that the Franken stuff breaks the day that the Senate Finance Committee is passing the tax cut and Mueller is sending subpoenas to Dolt45 campaign staffers. And Roger Stone tweeted about it Wednesday night. And,oh yeah, he tweeted its the first of many Dem gropey scandals.

  197. 197.

    tobie

    @Kay: I read this tweet a little differently than you. With his tweet, Trump’s opened the door to talking about his own harassment history. Let’s see if anyone runs with it. @Cheryl Rofer: I’ll be curious to see if the NYT turns its attention turns its attention to the current POTUS after indulging its Clinton itch yet again.

  198. 198.

    Kay

    @Bill:

    it’s bullshit. They badgered Clinton about Weinstein. CNN put up a fucking clock. Donald Trump needs to respond to the allegations against him in light of what we have learned and in the context of how other people are responding

    He opened the door. He’s attacking Franken. We really have a higher standard for senators than we do for the president? Louis CK is held accountable and Trump isn’t?

  200. 200.

    germy

    @mai naem mobile:

    I just find it real special that the Franken stuff breaks the day that the Senate Finance Committee is passing the tax cut and Mueller is sending subpoenas to Dolt45 campaign staffers.

    And Roger Stone crows about it the night before it breaks.

  201. 201.

    trnc

    @Lapassionara:

    If the Senate bill passes, it means a $25 million cut to Medicare. This bill goes after entitlements.

    I hate that term. We earned these benefits!

    Yes. We’re entitled to them because we earned them. Don’t let republicans redefine words for you.

  202. 202.

    Kay

    @tobie:

    Recall how Trump minimized it- “locker room talk” – obviously that wouldn’t fly for Franken. Why does it fly for the president?

    You’re right he “opened the door”. If media doesn’t go thru it they need to explain why.

  203. 203.

    Kay

    @tobie:

    The president admitted ogling teenage girls- going backstage to see them naked at one of his gross pageants. Why is he different than Moore? Arguably it’s worse than Moore. Trump held his position over their heads.

  205. 205.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize: @OzarkHillbilly:

    I think anti corruption has serious resonance and we should be pushing that message and anti-corruption legislation. My frustration about citizens united is that was only possible because the 2000 version of there’s no difference between D and R gave us Bush who gave us Thomas and Alito and that gave us the garbage Citizens United. Then the 2016 no difference between D and R group supported a passive aggressive anti-corruption candidate. Wilmer’s MO is to sponsor some 2 page Wall St Reform, Prescription Drug, etc bill that doesn’t really address the problem in a serious or credible way and any Dem who doesn’t support his bill is corrupt. Or he votes against a bill to rescue the auto industry (and all those good manufacturing jobs) because there is one thing in the bill he perceives as a benefit to Wall Street. It’s really immature and unhelpful. Doesn’t further an anti-corruption agenda at all.

  207. 207.

    Spanky

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Spanky:

    It’s hard to get your message out when it’s being actively suppressed.

    If that were true, none of us would know anything.

    Hardly. But perhaps you might wonder just how much we DON’T know.

  208. 208.

    Yarrow

    CALL YOUR SENATORS!!! Republican, Democrat. CALL THEM! Make a bunch of noise. Do everything we can to stop this bill.

  209. 209.

    Kay

    President Trump, Silent On Roy Moore, Slams Al Franken Over Groping Allegations

    This is a bullshit frame. Moore isn’t the issue. Trump is the issue. It’s not Moore and Franken. It’s Moore compared to Trump and Franken compared to Trump. They’re protecting the president.

  210. 210.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: If Trump had kept his big fat mouth shut about Franken, he might have skated, even though obviously a self-confessed pussy-grabber in the Oval Office is relevant to any news story about sexual harassment in politics. He still might skate! But my guess is his miserable flacks will rue the day he weighed in on Franken. His big mouth gets him in trouble. Not as much as it should, but really, we owe the entire Mueller investigation to Trump’s big fucking mouth. May it become a huge liability on this issue as well.

  211. 211.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s amazing how they’re still covering Clinton instead of covering Trump. They have two people accused – Trump and Moore. One is the sitting president and the other is a candidate- they choose to ignore Trump and focus on Moore.

    he gets a pass.

  214. 214.

    tobie

    @Kay: No sooner did I read your comment than I got a CNN news flash saying basically that Trump’s got no moral authority when it comes to talking about sexual harassment. So here’s hoping the spotlight is turned on his history again.

  215. 215.

    rp

    Moynihan (I think) had a great line in an interview many years ago: “They’re called ‘entitlements’ because people are entitled to them.”

  216. 216.

    woodrowfan

    Is there a place of can see how the bill will affect us individually? Plunge in our salary and deductions under this bill.

  217. 217.

    Kay

    @tobie:

    We need AT LEAST the kind of investigation Bill Clinton got all those years ago. AT LEAST. Unless standards are LOWER and that can’t be right. Louis CK can’t be held to a higher standard than the President.

    We even have precedent- Clinton. Trump should be treated like Clinton was, unless we’re MORE tolerant of sexual harassment and that can’t be, because look at all these other powerful people going down.

  218. 218.

    Yarrow

    @woodrowfan:

    Is there a place of can see how the bill will affect us individually? Plunge in our salary and deductions under this bill.

    If there isn’t there needs to be.

  221. 221.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Yarrow:

    There needs to be an overlay of districts that an R represents that went for Hillary, that will see their taxes go up due to getting rid of the SALT deduction, and then that needs to be weaponized.

  222. 222.

    Gretchen

    Kirsten Gillbrand said yesterday that Clinton should have resigned. There’s a Dem for you – lets turn the circular firing squad on our own guy from 20 years ago rather than the much worse guy who is president now.
    I think this Franken thing is the Mercers decided to take him down after seeing him go after Sessions. They plowed through 40 years of his past and that’s the best they could find. It’s being played as if he was creeping on her while she was asleep. The photographer who took the picture said she was in on the planning. Fox News gave her a cue card with a quote from one of Moore’s accusers, word for word, and shoved her in front of the cameras. I’m all for “believe the women”, but I also believe that powerful people want to take down someone who is in a position to threaten them.

  224. 224.

    Yarrow

    Repeating–has everyone called their Senators? Thank the Dems and be a nice call for their interns. Let the Republicans know you’re watching and bring up any of the myriad of reasons why this bill is a disaster. Ask them to vote against it.

    I’m frustrated we are focusing so much on everything else (which is a big deal but we can multitask!) while they sneak this through. Two huge threads on Franken yesterday and not one encouraging people to call about the tax bill.

  225. 225.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Yarrow: Mission accomplished for the Mercers and other plutocrats, they send their thanks to FPers and commenters on this blog and other liberal blogs who went hammer and tongs over Franken, yesterday.

  226. 226.

    burnspbesq

    Keep in mind that Senate Finance approved a “bill” that doesn’t exist yet. The only thing that the public can see is the Joint Committee-prepared summary, which is likely to have a lot of inaccuracies.

  227. 227.

    Kay

    Connie Pillich called and left a VM. I co-hosted a fundraiser for her here- it was the “invite the Republicans” fundraiser because it was at the home of the CEO of the hospital who is a Never Trumper. A lot of Republicans came, but that might have just been because the CEO of the hospital is a bigshot and they kiss his ass.

    I feel bad because Cordray will just knock out the other Democratic candidates- including me- I’m going with Cordray :)

    Sorry Connie! I should have warned you about how shallow I am!

  228. 228.

    Yarrow

    @schrodingers_cat: I know. I’d like to think we learned a few things from yesterday’s skillful distraction, but I’m skeptical. Not that the Franken stuff isn’t a big deal. It is! It’s also important to recognize that the timing of it was purposeful to distract people from the House vote on the tax bill. Let’s do better now! We can multitask. Eyes on the prize, people!

    Also, saw this:

    Four Republican senators are in private talks that could kill tax bill https://t.co/3U9Vv44Oso— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) November 17, 2017

    And can we please have a new thread, maybe one encouraging people to call their Senators!

  229. 229.

    Amir Khalid

    @Gretchen:
    Gillibrand has dropped in my estimation for that. Saying Bill Clinton should have resigned the Presidency because he cheated on Hillary is as absurd as saying she should have divorced him for it. It wasn’t the nation he betrayed, it was Hillary. She resolved the matter by working with him through whatever problems the marriage had. With hindsight it doesn’t look like the wrong decision. Meanwhile he finished out a pretty successful presidency. Only if he had somehow harmed the nation would there be grounds to demand he resign.

  230. 230.

    Betty Cracker

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Mission accomplished for the Mercers and other plutocrats, they send their thanks to FPers and commenters on this blog and other liberal blogs who went hammer and tongs over Franken, yesterday.

    You should see the HUGE yacht they sent to thank me for keeping the Balloon Juice commentariat distracted with Franken news yesterday so the House could sneak through that plutocrat tax plan, which otherwise would have been killed with the withering white-hot glare of our collective disapproval. Thanks to the Mercers’ generosity, I am now a plutocrat too and stand to benefit from the new tax plan. Wonder how much they gave Cole? Oh well, off to get fitted for my monocle. See ya, suckers!

  231. 231.

    Gelfling 545

    @germy: Any family going through this has my deepest sympathy. No matter what they say, it always FEELS like you should have been able to stop it somehow.

  233. 233.

    J R in WV

    @Lapassionara:

    @Kay:

    25 million isn’t that much.

    Guys, it’s a pretty good start, because it isn’t 25 million, it’s $$25 BILLION from Medicare. They are putting their feet in before they bellyflop on taking it all.

    And the comment above is absolutely correct, both Social Security and Medicare are intended to be insurance programs that we all pay into to support those receiving insurance benefits at any given time.

    These are not welfare in any sense of that concept, which is why they are called entitlements, people have paid into the programs which is why we are entitled to receive the benefits we have paid for!

  235. 235.

    Yarrow

    @Betty Cracker: We couldn’t have stopped the House vote, but we could have put more of a spotlight on it. Maybe a few more people would have called their Reps. People get distracted and forget or they have a busy day and can’t call. The more people who can call the better.

    I hope you enjoy your yacht! Do take Juicers out on it for free, or do we have to pay since it’s a plutocrat yacht? I know we’re paying one way or the other…

  237. 237.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Betty Cracker: I was being sarcastic, the sad part is that lefties fall for this crap without any thing to show for it, all the fucking time. At least the righties monetize their stupid all the way to the bank.

    ETA: Not saying that we should do the same, but a little skepticism about every red herring the media throws our way is warranted.

  238. 238.

    Yarrow

    @J R in WV: I hate the name “entitlements.” I know why it’s used but in common usage “entitled” means thinking one is inherently deserving of special treatment or privileges. There’s no way to separate that meaning from “entitlements” in the general understanding of the word. “Earned benefits” would be better. Get the word “earned” in there to indicate people have earned them and Congress wants to take away something people have earned.

  239. 239.

    Betty Cracker

    @Yarrow: I think there were three posts on the tax bill yesterday, maybe more, at least one of which specifically urged people to call their reps. This very fucking post into which y’all are currently typing comments complaining about the lack of attention to the tax bill…focuses the tax bill.

  241. 241.

    Tazj

    The press has brought up the Clintons partly because some liberals have done that themselves. Matt Yglesias and Chris Hayes have stated that they think it would have been better for Democrats and women in general if Clinton had resigned. Yglesias has written that the resignation would have created a watershed moment before Weinstein where women wouldn’t have been afraid to come foreword about sexual abuse and men would have been forced to reform their behavior.

    I don’t agree with this assessment. I remember the endless hours of testimony and press coverage. I remember Monica being hunted by the press and Ken Starr and being forced to reveal the relationship. Bill Clinton is mainly responsible for what Monica had to endure but I also blamed the press and the Republicans. it was as if no one really cared about her well being, they just wanted to reveal a scandal and bring Clinton down.

    Some liberals think that by bringing up Bill Clinton again and condemning his behavior they’ll gain some moral authority to criticize Trump and Moore. We already had the authority to do that, you didn’t have to bring up Clinton. Let the accusations against them stand on their own. I don’t think Hillary being the candidate was the only reason people dismissed allegations against Trump. The press didn’t cover or really investigate Trump after the DNC hack and Clinton Foundation coverage they don’t even care now. There were other reasons people voted for Trump and dismissed the abuse allegations. He was on television, they liked his economic message, his foreign policy “toughness” and racism.

    I won’t defend Bill Clinton now but this is just being used by the press to distract from Moore, Trump, the tax bill, and the Russian investigations, not to help women.

  243. 243.

    Tazj

    @Tazj: Instead of the press in the last paragraph I meant Republicans.
    I also think if Clinton would’ve resigned he just would’ve been condemned as the bad person the press and Republicans always thought he was, having little effect on the wider culture. this is separate form the moral question of whether he should have resigned.

  244. 244.

    gene108

    @Tazj:

    I don’t agree with this assessment. I remember the endless hours of testimony and press coverage. I remember Monica being hunted by the press and Ken Starr and being forced to reveal the relationship. Bill Clinton is mainly responsible for what Monica had to endure but I also blamed the press and the Republicans. it was as if no one really cared about her well being, they just wanted to reveal a scandal and bring Clinton down.

    True.

    If Bill resigned, Republicans would have just looked for a way to get Gore to resign and get themselves President Gingrich or Hastert.

    Look at the O’Keefe videos. After everyone rushed to kill ACORN, and it turned out O’Keefe heavily edited those videos, he didn’t apologize. He got Shirley Sherrod fired, with more edited videos, as well as a senior person at NPR.

    Republicans are not people, who do things in good faith. You let them win a little and they will walk all over you.

  247. 247.

    Neldob

    Yep. That’s how the Rthuglicans have manipulated thinking and language. They are not conservative, values voters, pro-family or uniquely patriotic. We need to reclaim all these.

  248. 248.

    Amir Khalid

    @Betty Cracker:
    I just read the NYT interview. Yeah, she’s not saying Bill should have resigned, only that more people would have been demanding it if it were to happen today. I suppose she’s right about that difference in public pressure. I mean, the public disapproved of the affair but didn’t think much of the impeachment, because they didn’t see infidelity as a sacking offence for POTUS. Right now, definitely more Americans would disapprove in principle of POTUS* cheating on FLOTUS, and more would want him to resign. But Bill was already under plenty of pressure; his presidency was actually on the line because he’d lied about the affair. I don’t see how things get much more pressuring than that.

    *Given that the current POTUS only gets more popular with the FYFeelings crowd when he screws up or misbehaves, and that FLOTUS is foreign-born, I do wonder how many of them would really disapprove.

  250. 250.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amir Khalid: I think we’re also much more likely now than in 1996 to be troubled by the power dynamics involved when arguably the most powerful man in the world shags an intern. To me, that’s the most troubling aspect of chronic horn-dog behavior in a powerful man like Bill Clinton. The marriage is Bill and Hillary’s business, not mine. But if the president sees women as pieces of ass (as our current one does), I have a huge problem with that.

  251. 251.

    TenguPhule

    @JPL:

    The best government money can buy. Wahoo!

    What adds insult to injury is that almost all of them were bought off so cheaply.

  252. 252.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I ran into a Bernie-Sis last weekend that I know through local activism. She was so excited about the VA results and said “That’s all because of Bernie!!!” I bit my tongue and changed the subject quickly so that I wouldn’t have to tell her off in public…

  253. 253.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    I’m hoping the dumb-ass voters will wake up when they go after Medicare and Social Security. That’s been the pattern. They wake up when their stuff is at risk.

    Past performance no longer guarantees future results.

  254. 254.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud: 2024.

    They want to leave the Democrats a big huge stinking mess to clean up AND get the blame for.

    That’s why the tax cuts for the majority expire in 2023 but the corporate rape continues forever.

  257. 257.

    J R in WV

    @Mike in DC:

    Congrats, and HAPPY Birthday!!

    Many happy returns, also, too! I turn 67 next month, and some days I feel every moment. Leading a life with exciting moments is a good thing in general, but some excitement has long term health effects, like getting hit by a sports car while riding a bike!

    But no complaints here, I’m still keeping busy and getting around. Tonight friends in a band are playing at the Book Store in town, so we’re going into town, for a change. First night out in quite a while.

    Whee! Old time music, what a thrill!!

  258. 258.

    J R in WV

    @germy:

    No, this guy, whoever he is, is correct. Collusion isn’t illegal because it isn’t mentioned in legal statutes. The statutes use the word conspiracy rather than the near synonym collusion. I expect our legal friends posting from time to time can edumacate us on any differences between collusion and conspiracy.

    From the beginning I believed many people were anxious to talk about collusion and the Republicans, just because collusion isn’t specifically illegal, which conspiring to commit a crime (even if never carried out successfully) is very much a crime. What the Trumps and their people did with the Russians and their hirelings was very much conspiracy to commit any number of crimes. Colluding in this case was conspiring, no matter what the Republicans and their lawyers say, because what they were colluding to do together was illegal.

  259. 259.

    J R in WV

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Yes, the NYT was in many ways the holy grail (along with the WaPo) for people in the newspaper business, like my family and friends growing up. When someone got a job running presses for the Post, that was a big deal. Well paid, challenging as some of the biggest newspaper presses in the world.

    Reporters felt the same way – if you got on with the Times or the Post you had arrived at the pinnacle of the profession! Now I realize that both institutions have good and bad people working there.

    Both papers have unhappily had to write “woe are we” stories when identifying reporters making stuff up, padding the expenses while writing from the site of breaking news while actually at a friend’s apartment, not spending actual money of airfare, hotels, meals and a rental car.

    And there’s the infamous Judith Miller writing about fictional Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, and telling us about the UN Inspectors not being allowed to inspect places that the US Inspectors themselves told the world they had indeed inspected throughly and found nothing of concern. Fomenting war based upon utter fiction, not something to be proud of.

    Other businesses being found out to do so poor a job at their primary business would be out of business, like the compounding pharmacy in New England that gave dozens of patients spinal infections with poor cleanliness standards in drug production labs! But not the New York Times, “lies are us” journalism when needed, staunch supporters of freedom of the press as needed.

    But how do we tell the difference? When is it necessary truth, and when absurd fallacies?

  260. 260.

    Kenneth Almquist

    The news that Russia set up fake twitter accounts to influence the Brexit referendum would seem to me to be enough to allow the British government to justify holding a new referendum. But I guess May is committed to going through with Brexit. (If you aren’t familiar with the story, search for Brexit Russia twitter.)

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