Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Second rate reporter says what?

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

White supremacy is terrorism.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

ha ha ha! Nice try weird people.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

You are here: Home / Every rose has its thorn

Every rose has its thorn

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Sorry, Charlie:

Eight women have told The Washington Post that longtime television host Charlie Rose made unwanted sexual advances toward them, including lewd phone calls, walking around naked in their presence, or groping their breasts, buttocks or genital areas.

Can’t say I’m surprised. I remember him drooling over Penelope Cruz in the most cringe-worthy manner on 60 Minutes once.

Always hated the guy. I’m partial to drunks but he took it a little too far on air.

Here’s thing with him and his ilk. Act like a fucking professional! Perv on all the women you want to on your own time but not when you’re working with them or worse yet when they work for you and certainly not when you’re on tv. Drink all you want but don’t show up for work visibly hung over every damn day. I guess I’m from the old school when it comes to doing your job.

Update. I didn’t mean Rose could grope women on his own time, that’s assault. I just mean if you want to hit on women in a clumsy way, do it at a bar, not at your workplace. People deserve a workplace that is free from having to deal with that kind of shit.

Reader Interactions

200Comments

  1. 1.

    Trentrunner

    Also, he was shitty at the job he was supposed to do. He took hundreds of words to ask inane questions, never followed up well.

    Fire his fucking ass. Hire a team of women to run and present that show.

  3. 3.

    MJS

    I think”perv on all the women you want on your own time” is kind of an oxymoron. I think the women being perved on would feel that it was “their time” as well.

  5. 5.

    Yoda Dog

    Perv on all the women you want to on your own time but

    What the fuckever, doug….

    Far be it for me to judge your work, but maybe reconsider your word choice there..

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    Perv on all the women you want to on your own time but not when you’re working with them or worse yet when they work for you and certainly not when you’re on tv.

    Let’s not encourage him.

  7. 7.

    Big Ole Hound

    Hmm, always expected Charlie to be lurking in strip mall lounge putting his hands on everyone like he’s your best friend.

  8. 8.

    Aleta

    Rebecca Traister

    Rebecca Traister
    @rtraister

    Chilling. Note the women in it who left journalism. & also, again, consider power that Rose (& regular guests, incl Halperin, including Thrush) had to shape narrative of HRC. The news here isn’t just individual; it’s structural.

  9. 9.

    Tom Q

    Like many, I disliked Rose as an interviewer because he asked these endlessly convoluted questions that pounded multiple assumptions in before the interviewee got to respond. And he quite clearly disrespected many women, in the sense that he’d giggle and flirt through interviews with pretty females, in a way he never would have with a comparable male guest.

    That said, these are pretty shockingly strong allegations, especially coming from such a large group of women at once. Something like this is what should lead to immediate suspensions and assumption of guilt — not the weak sauce being thrown at Franken.

  12. 12.

    lamh36

    Don’t recall if Rose can fit on this list…but even without Rose..the list is interesting…

    @mrsmaris
    Follow Follow @mrsmaris
    More
    Journalists who framed narrative of Hillary Clinton as corrupt, inauthentic, flawed?

    Glenn Thrush (Politico/NYT)
    Mark Halperin (Game Change, Circus)
    Hamilton Fish/Leon Wieseltier
    (New Republic)
    Sam Kriss (Vice)
    Jordan Chariton (TYT)

    ALL facings sexual harassment allegations.?

    https://twitter.com/mrsmaris/status/932650491447840769

  14. 14.

    Mary G

    Hope he saved some money because sounds like some slam-dunk lawsuits waiting to happen and the networks won’t touch him now. I expect to hear he’s entered rehab by tomorrow morning. He’s no Mel Gibson, who shouldn’t be employed but is.

  17. 17.

    ThresherK

    @Aleta: Dingdingding!

    I couldn’t stand the sheen of “thoughtful oak-tabledness intellectualismry” which he put on what was otherweise just pure beltway inbred crap.

  20. 20.

    Mike in NC

    Charlie Rose looks like a mortician from some cheesy horror movie, or maybe even one of the Walking Dead.

  22. 22.

    bobbo

    Just for his supporting role in Tom Friedman’s “Suck on This” he deserves a special place in hell. “Now that the war is over” [May 2003]

  23. 23.

    debbie

    @ThresherK:

    I used to watch if the guest was someone I wanted to listen to. Rose did do very good multiple show series on creativity and on the brain.

  25. 25.

    hilts

    @Trentrunner:

    @Yoda Dog:

    The next thing PBS should do is expand Tavis Smiley’s show from a half hour to an hour.

    Rose took 100 words where 15 would have sufficed because he always wanted viewers to believe he was just as smart as or smarter than his guest.

    Hoping Howie Kurtz is the next dumbass villager forced to resign in disgrace.

  29. 29.

    sharl

    @lamh36: The most recent tweet she personally composed/posted (i.e., not a re-tweet) was about 10 hours ago. I didn’t check Random House’s feed, but at least they have other books they can promote.

  30. 30.

    lamh36

    OT… but …THESE SON OF A BITCHES!!

    ETA: THE DONALD TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS A BUNCH OF RACIST PIECES OF SHIT!!!! And anyone who SUPPORTS him, i don’t care if it’s your mother or father or FUQN grandmother… they are all pieces of shit for supporting him!

    @ZekeJMiller
    Follow Follow @ZekeJMiller
    More
    WASHINGTON (AP) – Homeland Security Department terminates temporary residency program for almost 60,000 Haitians.
    https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/932774674030907392

    ETA: Tell me again…how the Dems are supposed to reach the kind of people who would support this?

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    This is why I find the Franken thing iffy:

    Sadly, my inbox is already flooded with women who have had similar, disturbing encounters with Charlie Rose. My email is [email protected] Please reach out if you have any information to share. Our reporting continues. @irin https://t.co/i8fgF8wabB— Amy Brittain (@AmyJBrittain) November 20, 2017

    If Al was a serial boob honker or ass grabber, more women should have come forward.

  34. 34.

    TenguPhule

    @lamh36: I’m feeling a little numb at this point. All the evil going on and can’t get the fucking media to pay attention beyond ONE FUCKING NEWS CYCLE if we’re lucky.

    Its not just the legislation, its everything else that Trump and his minions are doing.

  35. 35.

    RPh

    To be fair, showing up at work hungover like a wet & wrinkled bedspread on a clothesline was old school for the journos of a certain era …. but yeah, the h**l with him for what he’s done; plus, he really hasn’t been good since the Night Watch days in the mid 80s.

  37. 37.

    Tenar Arha

    @lamh36: Smart move on her part (because you know she’d stick her foot in it). There seems to be only a few choices when this happens:

    1. Unequivocal condemnation
    2. Keep your mouth shut if you can’t do #1
    3. Lame excuses for your colleague/friend, followed by blowback, followed by weak sauce apologies. (A Lena Dunham special maneuver).

  38. 38.

    dimmsdale

    @hilts: this is a SPLENDID idea. I have admired Tavis Smiley’s work for a long time, his intelligence, warmth, and humanity. Would love to see him get the Charlie Rose spot and a full hour at least. The guy has chops, vision, and a sense of “us”/ “community” that make Charlie Rose look like the parochial, conventional Villager he always was. The air time he wasted on clowns like Halperin and Meacham and Friedman!! The waste!!

  40. 40.

    TenguPhule

    Wait, we’ve Timetraveled back to 2016 and nobody told me?!

    Trump golf course reimbursed Trump’s charity amid ongoing investigation into the foundation

    One of Trump’s golf courses paid back more than $158,000 to Trump’s charitable foundation this year, reimbursing the charity for money that had been used to settle a lawsuit against the club, according to a new tax filing.

    The March 2017 payment came after New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, a Democrat, launched an investigation into how the Donald J. Trump Foundation collects and disburses funds. The inquiry is ongoing.

    Oh never mind, he’s doing exactly the same thing that was reported about last year before the election.

    I recall a Pulitzer was involved.

  41. 41.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Trivia: Charlie Rose’s ex-wife, Mary Rose Taylor, was the first executive director of Atlanta’s Margaret Mitchell House. Scarlett O’Hara meets soused interviewer.

  42. 42.

    Tenar Arha

    @lamh36: Ffffffrak

    This will set a bomb off in the Haitian community in Mass & Florida. Every single one of my father’s final caregivers were Haitian Americans.

    (Wait, one of his Health Aides was Nigerian-American).

    ETA I wonder how many Florida residents are dependent on their Haitian caregivers who were in this program.

  43. 43.

    But her emails!!!

    I’m about to the point where if someone brings up Franken, I’m just going to say.

    Look, Democrats don’t bat 100%. Maybe we should be tougher on Franken, but look at all these powerful liberal democrat media types like Weinstein, Rose, Thrush and Halperin. Once those of us who don’t have $10,000 to attend a luncheon found out about what happened, we pissed jet fuel all over them, tossed them Molotov cocktails and roasted marsh mellows over their still smoldering corpses.

  44. 44.

    TenguPhule

    @But her emails!!!:

    Once those of us who don’t have $10,000 to attend a luncheon found out about what happened, we pissed jet fuel all over them, tossed them Molotov cocktails and roasted marsh mellows over their still smoldering corpses.

    I do so admire your way with words.

  45. 45.

    hilts

    @dimmsdale:

    Tavis Smiley is a great interviewer because he’s a great listener. I could be mistaken, but I suspect the strong criticism Smiley has leveled against Trump means it’s highly unlikely for PBS to expand his show to an hour.

    I always thought Chris Matthews was far more likely to get caught up in a sexual harassment scandal than Charlie Rose.

  47. 47.

    Mike in NC

    There’s something about those Haitians that just ranckles Trump and his inner circle. Can’t quite put my finger on it.

  48. 48.

    But her emails!!!

    @hilts:

    I always thought Chris Matthews was far more likely to get caught up in a sexual harassment scandal than Charlie Rose.

    The week is young. Give it time.

  53. 53.

    lamh36

    @Tenar Arha: As someone pointed out elsewhere…yes..ALOT of Hatians, work in elder care…or service industries…

    Maybe someone should ask racist white folks who dafuq gon watch ur meemaw….now you racist fuqs…but we all know they’ll say “real Americans” can get those jobs…even though no “real Amerians” have taken the damn jobs before…

  56. 56.

    PsiFighter37

    So what happens if it comes out that Franken’s accusers are bullshitting us the whole time? I get the sense that all the far right senses is another way to hurt the left, so they will find clueless nitwits who will say something bad happened. It’s clear that Tweeden was a setup. This other lady – still hard to believe. I honestly think the Ethics Committee is going to find nothing, largely because undoubtedly there are plenty of senators (perhaps on both sides) who do not want dirty laundry getting aired.

    As for Charlie Rose, that fucker was always overrated. Now I know why he looked so goddamn hungover whenever the television was on, regardless of the time of day.

  57. 57.

    Mike in NC

    @hilts:

    I always thought Chris Matthews was far more likely to get caught up in a sexual harassment scandal than Charlie Rose.

    Or Charlie Sheen

  59. 59.

    Baud

    @lamh36:

    Has Maggie tweeted bout her collaborating partner yet? This morning she was tweeting alot about Franken…nothing bout Glenn

    “Reporter who covered Hillary Clinton accused of harassing women. Clinton remains silent.”

  60. 60.

    TenguPhule

    @PsiFighter37:

    So what happens if it comes out that Franken’s accusers are bullshitting us the whole time?

    A whole lot of non-apology apologies will spring forth.

    Oh who am I kidding, the myth will never die but live on like Fast and Furious and ACORN.

    Because our media is very very stupid and the American public is very very gullable.

  61. 61.

    different-church-lady

    @PsiFighter37: His proclivities aside, I never could figure out why he was such a PubBroadcasing darling. It’s like the totebaggers will get dreamy over anyone who shows up on their local PBS TV screens.

  62. 62.

    Juice Box

    I saw the video of the Al Franken USO sketch. It was from an earlier USO tour, but he did the same sketch. He plays a lechrrous loser and claims he has a try out for a TV show. A kiss is required, but the pretty actress says, “Oh Al, you just wrote that so you can try to kiss me!” (Which is what Tweeden claims to have thought.) A kiss is attempted, repulsed, and to audience cheers and volunteering, the pretty actress says, “I’d rather kiss someone from the audience!” Volunteer comes up on stage, kiss, end scene.

    Roger Stone and Leeann Tweeden didn’t make up the story, they plagiarized it from Al Franken.

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    “Reporter who covered Hillary Clinton accused of harassing women. Clinton remains silent.”

    Probably not the Onion.

    /I wish I could be sure this will stay a joke.

  65. 65.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud:

    Clinton remains silent

    I would have laughed except that the brutal truth of that makes me want to cry.

    OT, do you have a departure date? I know it’s “next month”, but we are getting perilously close to that.

  66. 66.

    eemom

    Perv on all the women you want to on your own time

    “Grope unconsenting women on your own time”??

    I can only hope that is not what you meant to say, but it sure as shit comes across that way.

  67. 67.

    Patricia Kayden

    I’ve watched Rose from time to time on CBS’ morning program, but never watched his show. I’m kind of surprised by these allegations because he gave off an aura of being a professional (and slightly boring) newscaster. Makes me wonder who’s next.

  69. 69.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @lamh36:
    I think Trump supporters should be deported to Russia. They’d like it better there. They don’t deserve to be citizens here.

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    @eemom: Yeah, I think he was trying to say “don’t shit where you work”, but it came off sounding like it’s okay to perv on women if you’re not at work. Confident that he doesn’t REALLY think that’s okay.

  73. 73.

    Fair Economist

    @Juice Box:

    Roger Stone and Leeann Tweeden didn’t make up the story, they plagiarized it from Al Franken.

    I’m stealing this one. Hope you don’t mind.

  74. 74.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: He certainly owes us for the Poison ear worm, that’s for sure…

    In other news, Jennifer Rubin is all like, “Fuck these Trumpkin morons – they’re unreachable, unteachable, and downright deplorable”

    At some point, some segment of Trump’s voters became so intellectually or morally corrupt as to become cultist. Hillary Clinton called them “deplorables” — and then took a beating for casting millions of Americans as racist. It’s time, I would suggest, to accept an unpleasant reality — there are some Americans who are not operating in good faith and are unreachable by logic or appeals to decency. How many of President Trump’s supporters fall into that category? We don’t know. But one comes to the conclusion that a good deal of the jaw-dropping spin that comes from Trump, his press secretary, his aides and the Fox News sycophants is designed to give this group of cultists something — anything to say — when confronted with reality. It need not be true, rational, decent or consistent. It’s filler for them to use, akin to putting their fingers in their ears and humming, when confronted by reality-based Americans or real news. We shouldn’t be surprised that Trump’s base has not abandoned him; people who look to him rather than their religious messiah are not going to change their minds based on real-world events.

    I hear her next column is an apology to Hillz? Time will tell…

  76. 76.

    JMG

    Doug, who is astute, misunderstands the nature of Rose’s (and Thrush’s, etc.) acts. He only did it because the job let him. It gave him the power to be abusive. Off duty, they’re just schmucks who could get their asses kicked by significant others or by the women themselves.

  77. 77.

    sukabi

    @Patricia Kayden: I’m not surprised…John Oliver has been good about compiling clips of our “esteemed” press… Rose’s antics on the morning show he occasionally sits in on are at best cringe worthy…sexual innuendo towards the female co-hosts…

    It would be one thing in a bar, totally repulsive on a morning “news” show.

  79. 79.

    TenguPhule

    78 comments in and nobody has made a joke about a short sharp prick yet.

    Jackals, I am so disappointed in you all.

  80. 80.

    jl

    From what I’ve heard, Rose can use the ‘Sorry. I was drunk as a skunk’ excuse with great credibility.
    Never liked that unctuous ass.

    OTOH, I still believe that there is a social problem of how to handle these cases, though far less important for media people than politicians.

    The current approach of trial by public opinion through social media in real time as the stories develop has limits. I say that with gritted teeth for Rose, since, to be honest, i generally detest the guy. I think he’s wrecked nearly every interview he’s been in, and the interviews of his I watch, I watch in spite of him not because he is doing a good job. Why do people like that jackass?

    Other aspects of this social problem deserve more attention, like continued defamation of accusers who come forward in good faith, and what about all the people who have to suffer this crap in obscurity because their abuser is some anonymous jerk at hotel, or department store, or bank branch, etc.

  81. 81.

    jl

    @Patricia Kayden: ” he gave off an aura of being a professional (and slightly boring) newscaster. ”

    I got a bad impression of what Rose is like from every thing I’ve seen him in. I guess he strikes people in very different ways.
    But, then most of the US news media stars give me a very bad impression, so maybe I hate them all. I think as a rule, these days, you have to have some some ultra toxic ruthless egomaniacal corporate hack and soulless ladder climber in you to get to the top of that profession.

  82. 82.

    cokane

    @Juice Box: as i said in the original thread on Franken, it’s clear that the photo was Franken mugging as a pretend villain in the shot. I mean there’s obviously other people present, including a photog

  83. 83.

    JPL

    @jl: Someone asked today what morning show I watched, and I said CBS Morning show because it is straight forward news and a tad boring. I’m now hoping that I don’t run into that person again.

  84. 84.

    JMG

    Rose’s obsequious treatment of the persons he interviews (nobody on earth could be as familiar with as many subjects as he pretends to be) is a real tell. The more the kissing up, the worse the kicking down.

  85. 85.

    Jake the antisoshul soshulist

    @Tom Q:
    Until recently, He flirted with Gail King constantly on the CBS morning show. I wonder if she told him to back off or went to management.
    She seemed to take it in good humor, but he must have crossed a line.
    Sounds like he didn’t believe in boundaries.

  86. 86.

    jl

    @JPL: After thinking about it, I realized I dislike nearly every big US news media star intensely. So my opinion on Rose isn’t worth much. I found him very self-indulgent and arrogant and opinionated. Those are his sins in my book, but most of them have others just as bad. Maybe he puts a very smooth and genial sheen on it so others don’t notice, or maybe I am wrong.

    @JMG: Good point. I found the simultaneous fawning, coupled with the polished and genial passive aggressive arrogance jarring. This has nothing to do with him assaulting people, but I’ve never like the guy, so hell with him, he deserves a general public criticism too bad for him.

  87. 87.

    cokane

    @Jeffro: Rubin has been one of the more interesting NeverTrumpers to emerge. Still, she needs to issue a massive mea culpa column at some point. Some of the rejection of reality among Republican voters was stoked by some her bullshit columns on Obama, such as suggesting that he was a major threat to Israel.

  88. 88.

    Carolina Dave

    @sukabi: this! It was unbelievable. Plus as others pointed outo his interviewson resulting in Rose having 60 word internal response’s before asking his next question. As an interviewer he was good, could ask tough questions, yet let subjects off the hook in a way that suggested let’s get a drink after this and tell me what you really wanted to say.
    Buthe I always hated Rose because he would appear at the Dook Carolina basketball game (in Durham) and get some TV time because he represented Dookies in the mass media.

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: well, dirty hippies and all that…

    That’s why I’ve wondered in the recent past if an appeal to the #NeverTrumpers would work best if posed as a “maintain your principled conservatism – but hurry up, get off your collective asses, and join us (first at the polls, and then in a coalition of sorts) – in kicking these unprincipled grifting Russia-loving goons out of power”.

    Then I think: fuck ’em, we’re going to win big in 2018 and 2020 without them, why should we compromise or water down our own messages. They can go down with the SS TrumpTanic, they can go off and wander in the wilderness as a fringe party, or they can join the center-center party where it already is (hint: the center).

  93. 93.

    dimmsdale

    @Major Major Major Major: OK, but 1) if Franken is the only member of the US Senate to have cuddled an inappropriate bum, I’ll eat my hat, 2) if the Democratic Party doesn’t have oppo on R Senators who’ve acted worse than Al I’ll eat my hat, and 3) if Dem Senators aren’t able to turn Al’s ‘investigation’ into an open-ended investigation into harassment at the Senatorial and also the PRESIDENTIAL level, with an eye toward turning it into a model Truth & Reconciliation inquiry, I’ll …. well, I think the ‘hat’ metaphor is played out, but I think there’s an opportunity here to address the moral issues around sexual harassment; and ensure that perps get outed for good, and actually LEAD while doing so. (Maybe I’m wrong?)

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @cokane: It is a testament to how the GOP ‘Establishment’ wing (especially the neocons like Rubin) had no idea that the foundations of their house were rotting away right underneath their feet. They really thought they would pay no price for constantly whipping up the base with their various fear appeals and demonizing of Democrats.

  95. 95.

    jk

    I watch in spite of him not because he is doing a good job.

    @jl:

    I suspect that was the way most viewers watched the Charlie Rose show. He was uniquely and consistently dreadful as an interviewer because he viewed every interview as an opportunity to either slobber and drool over his guest or show his guest how smart he was.

  98. 98.

    jl

    @jk: Rose was particularly dreadful with subject matter experts, where IMHO, Rose would sit there and twist every thing the guest said into Rose’s preconceived opinion. Rose kept these expert interviews short, since WTF, it was just some flunky expert, not a celeb that he could drool over. But I remember some very expert people getting irritated by the time the interview ended.

  100. 100.

    Tom Q

    @jl: I saw him one time interview Francis Coppola in the late 90s, and his whole line of questioning could have been paraphrased to “Howcome your movies suck these days while Spielberg’s are so good?” At the finish, he said, I hope you’ll come back, to which Coppola dismissively replied, We’ll see.

  101. 101.

    frosty

    @Nicole: @sukabi: I remember that John Oliver bit, but didn’t make the connection to Charlie Rose. His schtick falls into the “funny once, meh twice, oh c’mon give it up asshole” category.

  102. 102.

    Central Planning

    I don’t understand why the Senate can do an investigation of Franken for something he was accused of before he was a senator. Can someone enlighten me? I understand people might not want to vote for him again, but not to have him out of the senate now.

    If I groped someone before I got hired at my current employer, I don’t think the current employer would do an investigation. I would think some sort of legal action would be justified for that. If I did something like that while at my current employer, I’m sure there would be an investigation.

    If everyone has to quite their current job if they are accused of sexual harassment at some point in their past, are they ever allowed to work again?

  105. 105.

    Aleta

    On the one hand, it’s in the Daily Mail.
    On the other hand, right now I don’t care: Lewandowski ‘drunk-dialed and came on to female reporters’

  106. 106.

    fuckwit

    @dimmsdale: yes. His “investigate me” sttratregy is a brier rabbit. He who is without guilt, throw the first stone. Frannie will hand him his ass. The senate will squirm and do nothing

  108. 108.

    TS

    The “walking around naked” is what in a million years I will never understand. I would have been out of the door screaming to anyone who would listen – did he have such power over women that they would not report this?

  109. 109.

    Doug R

    @hilts: Not too impressed with Tavis Smiley considering how much he hung out with Cornel West and their Wells Fargo shenanigans.

  110. 110.

    Patricia Kayden

    @lamh36: When I visited Montreal this summer, the news was rife with coverage of Haitians crossing the Quebec border from the U.S. Good on them. They knew what the Orange Bigot was capable of and weren’t going to wait around for the axe to fall.

  112. 112.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Doug R: Smiley and West’s disdain of President Obama for completely nonsense reasons was so annoying and childish that I can’t take either of them too seriously. I do enjoy Smiley’s interview show though since he doesn’t do too much talking.

  114. 114.

    Davebo

    lewd phone calls

    OK, not excusable but not a career killer I guess.

    walking around naked in their presence, or groping their breasts, buttocks or genital areas.

    WTF CHUCK!!! Screw ruining his career. Put the pressure on so strong that his only option is to my to Myanmar if he ever wants to leave his house without being harassed.

  115. 115.

    Svensker

    I knew you would be on this. Thanks, DougJ! A loathing for all the right people is one of your best points. :)

  117. 117.

    Zinsky

    Charlie Rose always struck me as a tad pervy, not even to mention self-important. Screw him. Out he goes…

    Smart comments about workplace behaviors, Doug. Food for thought. Really.

  119. 119.

    schrodingers_cat

    I also don’t like Snooze Hour econ correspondent, Paul Solomon and his stupid hat. He is almost always wrong about econ. I used to like Ray Suarez but he is no longer there.

  120. 120.

    sharl

    @jk: That idiot Ann Althouse actually described Charlie Rose as a liberal icon

    My goodness, I’d forgotten all about the narcissistic law prof. of Madison WI. She used to be a regular source of annoyance long ago; maybe she still is for some.

    Once she popped over to one of Atrios’ blogs, grabbed a handful of comments, then slagged on the content back in her blog. She got so much of the content wrong – commenter genders, professions, what the comments actually said – which provided lots of mirth for the atriots for a long time.
    …..At some point one atriot even created a parody site, now long abandoned. That was the best thing to ever come from her presence online.

  123. 123.

    cokane

    the reason he did it at work, the reason they all do it at work, is because you can’t get away with that shit with strangers who won’t feel they owe you anything. all these guys did this shit to subordinates, that’s not a bug, that’s a feature. they knowingly go after people who will be hesitant to strike back

  127. 127.

    burnspbesq

    @dimmsdale:

    this is a SPLENDID idea. I

    No, I promise you this is the leader in the clubhouse for worst idea of the week.

    Have you never heard the Saturday morning Travis Smilry/Cornel West radio show? That’s the real Travis Smiley, and it is truly a horror show.

  128. 128.

    Mnemosyne

    @cokane:

    The joke in the photo is that he’s acting like a woman in body armor and a helmet is irresistibly sexy. It’s not a great joke, but it’s clearly a joke.

    I think she was genuinely bothered that they staged a prank photo while she was asleep, but that’s actually a slightly different issue. There’s a reason why one of the famous two-line horror stories is:

    You find a picture on your phone of yourself asleep in your bed at home. You live alone.

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    I think Rubin is someone who genuinely bought into the whole Democrats hate Israel bullshit. She really seems on the verge of a full-on Cole-style public conversion. I hope so.

  133. 133.

    Ruckus

    @Jake the antisoshul soshulist:

    She seemed to take it in good humor,

    Let’s break this down to what would happen if she didn’t take it in good humor.
    Probably get fired, quite possibly be black listed by not acting professionally. Even though her opposite was not acting professionally. Or given what we are seeing, maybe he is acting professionally and it’s the profession that needs to change.

  134. 134.

    tobie

    Tomorrow the FCC will propose suspending net neutrality. Net neutrality was Franken’s signature issue. I’ll sure miss his voice on this.

  136. 136.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @PsiFighter37:

    So what happens if it comes out that Franken’s accusers are bullshitting us the whole time?

    It would show that Democrats have learned nothing since they helped the Republicans kill ACORN based on lies from an alt-right agitprop cell.

  137. 137.

    Aleta

    Kyle Griffin
    CBS News confirms that Don Jr. met with Kremlin ally Alexander Torshin at an NRA event in May 2016.

    Kyle Griffin
    Forgot about this. Shortly before the election, Don Jr. flew to Paris for lunch at the Hotel Ritz Paris with a Syrian activist (who says she meets regularly with Russian officials) and her husband (who once nominated Putin for a Nobel Peace Prize).

    Donald Trump Jr.’s 2016 trip to Paris for lunch with Moscow-linked couple remains a puzzle
    latimes.com

  138. 138.

    sharl

    Here’s a little bit of help for Charlie Rose and Glenn Thrush, to maybe bump their stories down the list a bit:

    Michigan Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat and the longest-serving member of the House of Representatives, settled a wrongful dismissal complaint in 2015 with a former employee who alleged she was fired because she would not “succumb to [his] sexual advances.”

    But wait, it gets shittier!

    The documents were first provided to BuzzFeed News by Mike Cernovich, the men’s rights figure turned pro-Trump media activist who propagated a number of false conspiracy theories including the “Pizzagate” conspiracy. Cernovich said he gave the documents to BuzzFeed News for vetting and further reporting, and because he said if he published them himself, Democrats and congressional leaders would “try to discredit the story by attacking the messenger.” He provided them without conditions. BuzzFeed News independently confirmed the authenticity of the documents with four people directly involved with the case, including the accuser.

    Because of course THAT creep just has to be involved at some point.

    Looks like a pretty carefully reported story, Cernovich’s role notwithstanding. Conyers hasn’t yet responded.

  140. 140.

    Ruckus

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Quite possibly true. But even so she might not like being hit upon by someone who is disgusting and whose advances are not welcome. Being attacked with rusty farm implements would be understandable, having to put up with a human dildo might not be.

  144. 144.

    rk

    @PsiFighter37:

    So what happens if it comes out that Franken’s accusers are bullshitting us the whole time? I get the sense that all the far right senses is another way to hurt the left, so they will find clueless nitwits who will say something bad happened. It’s clear that Tweeden was a setup. This other lady – still hard to believe. I honestly think the Ethics Committee is going to find nothing, largely because undoubtedly there are plenty of senators (perhaps on both sides) who do not want dirty laundry getting aired.

    I was arguing with someone in the thread below about how my default position is not to believe the vile filth which comes on Hannity’s show. It did not take more than a minute to figure out what LeeAnn Tweeden is. Right wing filth. Stupid and racist to boot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=347&v=Ca2u2N8WWbM

  145. 145.

    Aleta

    I think conservs are getting scared they’re going to lose the Senate.

    jordan
    @JordanUhl
    HOLY SHIT. Stephen Moore of the Heritage Foundation just tried to “both sides” the Alabama Senate race and compared Doug Jones’ stance on abortion to Roy Moore molesting kids.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    @Mike in NC:

    There’s something about those Haitians that just ranckles Trump and his inner circle. Can’t quite put my finger on it.

    Now, now! Don’t hold back on us!

    It’s their hair, isn’t it!?! Not long and full and like Trump’s hair at all, isn’t it!!??

    isn’t it…

  149. 149.

    dimmsdale

    @burnspbesq: Nope, never heard it, so can’t comment. All I know is what I’ve seen on his own show, in his own time, with guests other than Cornel West. And one appearance on one of the idiot Sunday Gasbag shows, where his intelligent, respectful yet quietly devastating logic handed a couple of Village idiots their asses (though they were too dumb to notice). I’ll have to look into what you’re talking about.

  150. 150.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Aleta: This is what all these sudden “revelations” concerning Al Franken are all about. Timed to coincide with the AL Senate race between a Democrat and a pedophile. It’s great for distracting the utter scum of the Village from the tax atrocity they’re trying to get passed, from the ongoing story of outright fucking treason by Donald, for his ongoing attacking of people who just happen to be blah to shore up his mouth breathing racist base.

  151. 151.

    dimmsdale

    @rikyrah: Yeah, lot of fertile ground for cultivation there. It may well hurt Dems as well as R’s, but in the long run (assuming some sort of restorative justice/truth & reconciliation framework) it might end up being a service.

  152. 152.

    Mary G

    @dimmsdale: @rikyrah: I agree. Surely there are Democrats on it, but sunshine is the best disinfectant. Clean the house and replace them with women. It’s offensive that our money has been paid out and we are not allowed to know who and why. I bet there were NDAs in every case, which ought to be outlawed.

  153. 153.

    Jeffro

    @Aleta: This is the kind of thing I have repeatedly warned my RWNJ friends and relatives about: a month, six months, a year from now, what will you be excusing in the service of the Trumpov agenda? What will you be overlooking and both-sides-ing? What hole will you be in, morally?

    They’ve never given me an answer to that. They know. They know in their bones what they’re signing up for. But…dirty hippies and all that…

  154. 154.

    Mike J

    @jk:

    That idiot Ann Althouse actually described Charlie Rose as a liberal icon

    Fine. Nobody is defending him. Everyone wants him gone. Liberals live up to their standards. Now let Republicans vote against a pedophile.

  155. 155.

    Turgidson

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I always had a suspicion that assholes like halperin and cillizza, while realizing on some level that Hair Furor was a disgraceful dipshit douchebag, envied him as someone who’s gotten away with things they wish they could, and therefore helped him during the campaign.

    Haberman is just an access-obsessed, shallow, insecure twit who, gender aside, should be an undistinguished local reporter in Macon Georgia (or similar), not a widely cited and influential FTFNYT star reporter.

    I’m glad NYMag continues to provide Traister with a venue for writing things that are so obviously true but generally left unsaid, about HRC’s treatment at the hands of our failed media experiment.

  156. 156.

    James E. Powell

    I never liked Charlie Rose and never understood why the tote-baggers loved him so much. But I didn’t hate him until the Iraq Invasion & Occupation. I saw is show because my then girlfriend watched it. He was clearly a war supporter. He sucked up to and flattered his pro-war guests while constantly interrupting and changing the subject with guests who opposed it. This went on even after it was clear that the whole thing was bogus.

  158. 158.

    magurakurin

    @dimmsdale:

    if Franken is the only member of the US Senate to have cuddled an inappropriate bum, I’ll eat my hat

    Isn’t the fact that this is almost certainly true the real problem? This is deep cultural problem. Men have a real problem here. Nobody should be touching anybody’s ass unless directed to do so. This is a deep, deep problem and that someone as decent as Franken can get caught up in it shows how deep the rot truly is. Personally, I don’t even like shaking hands, and I’m a man. The gratuitous touching that men do to women has always creeped me out. The hugs, the shoulder massages all that shit is just fucking creepy. Why the fuck do guys do it?

  159. 159.

    Mary G

    Cernovich or no, the Conyers thing looks bad in the Buzzfeed article.

    The procedure for complaints the Office of Compliance (which sounds like something Dolores Umbridge would be in charge of) oversees is awful. Once a complaint is made, they wait 30 days then have the person undergo mandatory counselling (which can be waived, thank you George Orwell). To proceed any further the complaining person must sign a confidentiality agreement, which apparently cannot be waived. Then they must wait another 30 days and go to mandatory mediation. Then they wait another 30 days for a “cooling off period,” the most misnamed thing I can imagine. Finally they can file a formal complaint, which then goes to arbitration or federal district court.

  161. 161.

    Aleta

    From a long story in the Wa Post about “the culture of widespread sexual harassment and abuse in kitchens and dining rooms”

    The Post interviewed more than 60 people across the country who either claimed they experienced such treatment while working in restaurants or witnessed it. Men are not immune from abuse, but the vast majority of victims we spoke to are women. Their stories show that how women experience sexual harassment depends on their place in the restaurant ecosystem. Cooks are harassed by other cooks, servers are harassed by everyone. And immigrants and young people — who make up a large percentage of the workforce — are particularly vulnerable.
    …
    Nearly a quarter of restaurant employees are foreign-born vs. 19 percent for the overall economy, according to the National Restaurant Association. And many are undocumented: Ten percent of the workforce in “eating and drinking places” in 2014 lacked U.S. work authorization, according to the Pew Research Center. Fear of deportation may make undocumented immigrant restaurant workers who are abused less likely to report that abuse to authorities.

  162. 162.

    GregB

    The new North Korea designation is a real ominous turn.

    It allows NK to get shoehorned into the Iraq/9/11 AUMF.

    This sociopath is going to get lots of people killed.

  163. 163.

    Wapiti

    @magurakurin: And because it’s a deep, deep, cultural problem, I don’t think Sen. Franken needs to commit hari-kari. I think he’s a more-decent-than-average guy. I think he’s shown some serious empathy for women, including his first accuser. I think he could leverage the Ethics Committee into the start of an official national conversation about the problem. The unofficial conversation has started. We might need a truth and reconciliation board to get all three branches of government through it.

  166. 166.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    Reading the Conyers stuff and getting pissed off.

    Who gets “blackballed” in DC and settles her claim for nuisance value of 27K?

    Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Claim was shit.

  168. 168.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Aleta:

    Fear of deportation may make undocumented immigrant restaurant workers who are abused less likely to report that abuse to authorities.

    Donald loves his “illegals” because he can fuck them over.

  172. 172.

    PPCLI

    @Viva BrisVegas: Or when they rushed to fire Shirley Sherrod based on garbage that was revealed to be complete Breitbart bullshit within a week. They couldn’t even just wait a few days…

  173. 173.

    ArchTeryx

    Wow. Amazing just how thoroughly we fall for weaponized “whataboutism”. Which is exactly what these Franken claims stunk of. It’s all a giant smokescreen to try and keep us fighting amongst ourselves while they steal the whole enchilada.

  174. 174.

    marcopolo

    Don’t know if this has been posted before but:

    In Fort Bend County, Texas, the debate over free speech has come down to a now-infamous bumper sticker: “FUCK TRUMP AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM.”

    Last week, Fort Bend County Sheriff Troy Nehls suggested in a Facebook post that the owner of the truck bearing the remark could be arrested and charged with disorderly conduct after the sheriff’s office received complaints about it. That owner happened to be Karen Fonseca, who, a day later, was arrested on an outstanding warrant on fraud charges from 2015. Nehls, who is considering a bid for Congress in 2018, later deleted the Facebook post. Then, over the weekend, Fonseca struck back in her own way, adding another decal to her white GMC Sierra: “FUCK TROY NEHLS AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM.”

    I say we keep track of this a$$hole sheriff and if he does decide to run for Congress in 2018 that we set up a funding page for his opponent.

  175. 175.

    No Drought No More

    I can picture a retired Charlie now: asleep beneath a tree beside a stream in North Carolina somewhere, with a half empty jug of moonshine still in hand, his hound dog stretched out beside him. Charlie will spend the rest of his days laying there with a fishing line tied to his toe, all the while dreaming, “I love you too, Penelope”.

  176. 176.

    sharl

    From former Sen. Harry Reid’s former deputy chief-of-staff:

    Congress' Office of Compliance (OOC) has paid $17M to victims of harassment & discrimination.Members of Congress who are certain that no sexual harassment or assault cases have been settled on their behalf by the OOC should say so.See who stays silent.https://t.co/xpV5myRaoj— Adam Jentleson (@AJentleson) November 21, 2017

  181. 181.

    sharl

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes, @Omnes Omnibus: Unlike me, you guys are both lawyers, so I take your opinions on this seriously. And I myself am suspicious about much of the Franken stuff.

    But do you think it possible that the relative power dynamics playing out between a powerful senior Congressman versus a (probably) young woman (who isn’t likely paid much) might provide a feasible explanation for a paltry settlement, especially given the unique rules Congress sets for itself that stacks the deck so heavily in its own members’ favor? Or would it be more comparable to what you guys are likely to see in Kentucky or Wisconsin?

    I really don’t know myself, but having lived in the DC area since 1985 – though not working in or near Congress – I’ve read and heard enough stories from Congress to know that low level staffers are pretty goddamn powerless.

    Having asked all that, the role of Cernovich bugs the hell out of me:

    both the conyers shit is awful and disgusting and we should be extremely concerned that someone in a position of power is feeding information to a guy whose trademark is framing his enemies as pedophiles https://t.co/naR4ZGxdqj— Ashley Feinberg (@ashleyfeinberg) November 21, 2017

  183. 183.

    Mnemosyne

    @Aleta:

    Stephen Moore of the Heritage Foundation just tried to “both sides” the Alabama Senate race and compared Doug Jones’ stance on abortion to Roy Moore molesting kids.

    Being anti-abortion is basically a “get out of jail free” card for Republicans, because conservatives have convinced themselves that nothing is worse than abortion. Absolutely nothing. They can excuse any crime at all by a Republican because it’s not as bad as legal abortion.

    So, yes, there absolutely are people who will vote for Roy Moore next month fully believing that it’s better to vote for a child molester than for someone who supports legal abortion, because even child molestation is not as bad as abortion.

  184. 184.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @sharl:

    Here in Kentucky, based on the facts I read, a settlement figure of 4 to 6 times what she got would be appropriate. Figure that the bell would general bring about 10-15 times what they got at trial.

  185. 185.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @sharl: I am taking any attack on a D as a political attack. If real evidence comes over time I will reassess and perhaps condemn. Fucking prove it, assholes.

  186. 186.

    marcopolo

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: How’s your reading comprehension? If you read the entire piece you would have read about the signed affidavits supporting her claim; you would have read the process that Congress has set up for victims making the claims which is rigged to make it tremendously difficult to pursue any kind of action; and then you would have read about the weird agreement that the claimant arranged with Conyers’ office–which was entirely set up to allow plausible deniability.

    When the Weinstein revelations & reporting suddenly opened up the national dialogue to women airing their accounts I told all my friends that a lot (A LOT) of men were going to get caught up in it. Not just Republicans but a lot of Dems too. It sucks. And it will get worse and uglier. But as a 55 year old guy, I can tell you there are a hella lot of pigs out there. We are only at the beginning of this holding men to account right now, and as a result every man who seemingly has done anything is getting painted with a pretty broad brush (i.e. what Weinstein & Spacey & Moore are accused of is downright criminal; what other men are accused of seems to be more creeper male pig behavior or immaturity or inability to understand the rules of how to properly, respectfully, interact with the opposite sex when pursuing sex or a relationship). I honestly don’t know where Franken fits in this spectrum atm. He is one of my favorite Senators but I (all of us) need to take every woman’s claim seriously and every claim needs to be investigated no matter if it is someone I like or someone I despise. To flippantly discount a woman’s claim because they are pointing the finger at someone on your side or because they only settled for x amount of money (a lot of women never even get a chance to settle) says to me that perhaps you should do a little more reflecting on how pervasive sexual harassment and abuse is in our culture and society.

  188. 188.

    Gretchen

    @Central Planning: Franken himself wants an investigation because the accusation is bullshit. Right wing radio host does the same show hundreds of times, lies about it, puts out a possibly-doctored photo, and then goes on tour to sell her book.
    Accusation comes days after Franken does a take-no-prisoners questioning of Sessions that has Republicans asking how they can get rid of this guy. Word has it that Hannity saw this picture some time ago, and she saves it up until maximum impact.
    All these other accusations result in many other women coming forward. Nobody else has come forward except one obviously bogus one that was quickly dismissed, and this butt-grabber. Come on. He’s trying to get votes, he’s talking to thousands of people, her husband is taking the picture, and he decides to grab her butt? And, of the thousands of other people he’s met, he’s never grabbed another butt? Republicans are trying to take him down, and the “He must resign” folks are helping him. He helped a rape survivor whose university wouldn’t help her, and wrote the bill that she wanted written, and she’s asked him to take his name off the bill. She believes Tweeden over the man she knows who stepped up to help people like her. I’m heartsick over this. Right wingers are taking a good man down, and lefties are helping,, because they won’t take the chance that this is a lie. We’ll have an all-Republican congress if we fold every time and they stick it out every time. And yes, I don’t believe these women, I believe Franken. And the dozens of women who have worked with him for the last 40 years, every one of whom, even Victoria Jackson, say they’ve never seen him treat women with anything but respect.

  189. 189.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @marcopolo: And as a lawyer looking at the settlement value, it does come up as nuisance suit. Settle because it is cheaper than litigating.

  190. 190.

    Mary G

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I can believe in two things at once, that Paul Ryan left the papers in a dead drop for Cernovich, and that Conyers was a sleazy employer. Three or four of her co-workers signed notarized and I assume under penalty of perjury, that they witnessed what she alleged. It’s not a he said/she said of pretty minimal behavior.

    Also, the process they put her through was awful and she told Buzzfeed

    And the documents also reveal the secret mechanism by which Congress has kept an unknown number of sexual harassment allegations secret: A grinding, closely held process that left the alleged victim feeling, she told BuzzFeed News, that she had no option other than to stay quiet and accept a settlement offered to her.

    “I was basically blackballed. There was nowhere I could go,” she said in a phone interview. BuzzFeed News is withholding the woman’s name at her request, because she said she fears retribution.

    You are just going by the money given. I worked 20 years for a company with great benefits, a decent salary and a company car that I used 24/7. In exchange I worked 60-80 hours a week for no extra pay because I was exempt. After I quit somebody filed a class action and I ended up getting $21,000, or $13,000 after taxes and I was fucking thrilled with it, even though was in no way recompense, but I was sure they would stone wall and drag it out, so it was free money. YMMV.

  191. 191.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @marcopolo:

    I’m 55 as well, and probably know far more corrupt people in a personal basis than you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams. I can tell you that even in a corrupt, rigged game, she gets a fiction more than 27K, or she chooses not to bother at all, considering what she’s out in fees and reputation.

    The timing on publicity of these claims feels like a bust sewage treatment plant in a hot August afternoon. The facts suck, the reporters suck, and I really don’t care anymore.

  192. 192.

    marcopolo

    @Tenar Arha: I’m with you. I yelled at the person taking calls in Senator Blunt’s office today about the awfulness of the Senate tax plan. And that was before I heard about the FCC deciding to do away with net neutrality.

  193. 193.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Mary G:

    Just because the thing is notarized means something between “jack” and “shit”. Actual affidavits submitted To Court are worthless enough; these aren’t even going to court. They can be verifiable untrue, and no one will ever prosecute.

  194. 194.

    Gretchen

    @tobie: Gee, why did phony oppo research on Franken come out right before his signature issue comes up for a vote? Net neutrality is something the big donors really hate. ‘Tis a mystery why the attack machine came after him just now. It will be established after it passes that this was all bullshit, but we’ll never know because Balloon Juice will take an hour to load and we’ll go back to reading books.

  196. 196.

    jk

    The gratuitous touching that men do to women has always creeped me out. The hugs, the shoulder massages all that shit is just fucking creepy.

    @magurakurin:

    Paging Uncle Joe Biden. in addition to being a gaffe machine, I was always turned off by Biden’s touchy feely behavior around women when he was swearing in new members of Congress. I hope he doesn’t get the stupid fucking idea to run in 2020.

  197. 197.

    Gretchen

    Somebody above has a link to Tweeden on Hannity talking about what a racist Shirley Sherrod was. We’re Shirley Sherroding one of our best people. Stop it!

  199. 199.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    She settled for bullshit nuisance money. The claim was junk.

    Reminds me of the time 25 years ago when I was driving my brand new auto (picked it up from the dealer just 2 days before) & an elderly couple ran the red light as I was going through on the green; I couldn’t stop in time & t-boned them. No one hurt, or so it seemed at the time. The other driver knew he was in the wrong & said so to me but clammed up when the cops arrived.

    Next thing I know I get a letter from an attorney informing me I’m being sued for $20K by the other driver for medical bills (later added his wife for another $20k **) & they have a witness to testify that I was the one who ran the red.

    Called my insurer, who asked who the attorney was, & at the mention of the name the rep shot back, We believe your version! Turns out he’s the most notorious ambulance-chaser in town (& was nearly sent to prison later in an insurance sting). They assigned me an attorney, who set about to depose the witness, who repeatedly dodged her. As of 2 days before the court date my attorney was confident: Since he wouldn’t appear to be deposed, we’ll move to strike his testimony, the judge will agree, & they have no case.

    The day before the hearing she called me to tell me the case had been settled out of court for $5k – probably just enough to pay off the fucking ambo-chaser. Apparently my insurer decided that $5k was cheap insurance against the chance the judge allowed the witness.

    Bullshit claim, completely unjustified – but the insurer paid a pittance to ensure it went away. (And I never did meet my attorney – who I was more than a little hoping was as attractive as her voice & as single as I was. Oh well…)

    ** FTR $20k/$40k were the minimum coverage that insured motorists in MD must carry. I have a feeling that this shyster said to the couple, It won’t hurt the other guy a bit – his insurance will pay every penny – & you’ll get a nice chunk of change (after paying me)!

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