Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

75% of people clapping liked the show!

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

When we show up, we win.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

American history and black history cannot be separated.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

No one could have predicted…

One way or another, he’s a liar.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

You are here: Home / Communication breakdown, it’s always the same

Communication breakdown, it’s always the same

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Commenting on the Russia probe is tricky because on the one hand, no, Marshall of Scotus will not personally execute Tump and his associates, but, on the other, we are probably headed for major constitutional crisis. Anywho:

A lawyer for former national security adviser Michael Flynn informed an attorney for President Trump this week that he can no longer discuss the special counsel’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, a sign that Flynn may be preparing to cooperate in the probe, people familiar with the investigation said.

Reader Interactions

81Comments

  2. 2.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    I think we’re already in a constitutional crisis and have been since Trump was inaugurated.

  5. 5.

    Jeffro

    Renato Mariotti’s Twitter thread is instructive on what the Flynn-lawyer-thingy likely means. If only I knew how to link to it…

  7. 7.

    Mnemosyne

    But Al Franken hugged people who did not clearly indicate beforehand that they were okay with being hugged. Clearly that scandal should take priority over any mere treason scandal.

  9. 9.

    smintheus

    Sounds like Flynn’s lawyer is signaling that if Trump is going to pardon his client he’d better do it now.

  11. 11.

    BBA

    I was expecting a constitutional crisis this year, just a very different one. I.e., Hillary not being able to get a cabinet confirmed because the Senate is holding another impeachment trial over, I dunno, Travelgate? (There’s no statute of limitations on impeachment, right?)

    And then when the hurricanes hit and FEMA has no director and no budget, well, of course it’s Hillary’s fault for not compromising with a bunch of raving jackals who think she’s Satan incarnate.

    Anyway, the point is, I never thought I’d be wishing for a better crisis to suffer through.

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    @Doug R: Thank you good sir!

    It does indeed tell us a lot…

    …for one thing, it reminds me to ping my RWNJ relatives tomorrow and ask if this is the kind of thing one would expect to see play out from a fully made-up #FakeNews lefty conspiracy theory/excuse for losing the election. I’m thinking NOT.

  17. 17.

    Felonius Monk

    @fuckwit:

    For Xmas I want troll and dense behind bars for treason.

    I would have been happy if their Thanksgiving turkeys had been filled with e-coli.

  19. 19.

    Suffragette City

    I’m going to take the over on this having a direct affect on Jared. And still I wonder about Woolsey in all of this.

  20. 20.

    amygdala

    Speaking of Renato Mariotti, what do Illinois jackals think of his campaign to be Attorney General? I’ve learned so much from his Twitter feed, and he seems to be a good candidate (and person).

  21. 21.

    Suzanne

    I am trying to buy some clothes for work, and I am annoyed, because I would like to buy some damn shirts with shoulders, thank you very much.

  22. 22.

    Gemina13

    I’m trying hard not to build air castles, but this is the best political news I’ve heard all month.

  26. 26.

    Trentrunner

    @Mnemosyne: Liar. You know two women have said Franken grabbed their buttocks during a photo op. It’s typical of rape culture to minimize sexual assault as “playing a game of grab-ass” (nope, haven’t forgotten, will never forget) or “I’m a hugger!”

    You are a liar. And it’s both sad and disgusting in equal portions.

  27. 27.

    Citizen Alan

    Is the pie filter broken or something? Because I swear I’ve entered the name of that ratf*cking choad Trentrunner at least twice and his idiocy still shows up. Maybe third time’s the charm.

  28. 28.

    Mary G

    Thankful for

    An all-volunteer group of activists has defied the odds by collecting hundreds of thousands of voter signatures for a 2018 initiative to overhaul redistricting in Michigan—without having to pay a dime for a signature. t.co/B8nna4jVPQ— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 24, 2017

    US News:

    Voters Not Politicians, a ballot committee opposed to the partisan gerrymandering of congressional and legislative districts, is poised to turn in roughly 400,000 signatures by year’s end. About 315,000 valid ones are needed. An astounding 350,000 signatures have been gathered in just three months, thanks to a legion of at least 3,000 active and trained volunteers circulating petitions.

    “Our circulators know what they’re doing and they take it seriously,” said the group’s president Katie Fahey, who wrote a Facebook post in the aftermath of the 2016 elections asking people to fight gerrymandering. “It shows the enthusiasm of everyday people wanting to make sure that this change actually happens.”

    Women are saving the country.

  30. 30.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Trentrunner:

    You are a liar. And it’s both sad and disgusting in equal portions.

    Your mother told me the same thing about you the other night.

  34. 34.

    Amir Khalid

    @Trentrunner:
    The more we learn about the accusations against Franken, the less there is to them, and the more the demands for his head seem like hysterical overreaction. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

  35. 35.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Amir Khalid: Since I’ve basically been avoiding the story – what IS the latest on the Franken bit?

    The initial two accusations (kiss while rehearsing, staged non-touching photo) seem like they were pretty much over with, but now I basically hear that there’s three women who say Franken touched their butt during a photo op. Was there any more detail than that?

    Because while I’m not exactly happy to hear about those last three, they don’t seem especially serious. They also fall into the “possible accident or misunderstood” category, though I’m real hesitant to apply those without more info.

  36. 36.

    Yutsano

    @MisterForkbeard: Folks are trying to”both sides” this so hard it’s making heads spin. Conyers got no traction but the right has always hated Franken. And so it goes.

  38. 38.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Yutsano: I just… I see Franken and I think “If this is literally the worst they can accuse him of, they’ve basically removed him from the leadership track and possibly for good reason but isn’t really a good reason to resign. But even if true it’s orders of magnitude less awful than what we know to be true about Trump and the Alabama Pedophile.”

    Still….

  39. 39.

    BBA

    The Franken situation is troubling to me.

    As a good feminist ally, I try to always believe women, no matter what.

    As a good Democrat, I smell a ratfuck, and don’t want to fall for it.

    But I also don’t want to undermine the current feminist moment – pieces of shit like Weinstein and Halperin deserved to have their livelihoods ruined, and questioning one woman risks opening the door for others to question other women and letting other Weinsteins get away with it.

    So I’m led to the odious conclusion that everyone would be better off if Franken really is a groper.

  40. 40.

    Citizen Alan

    It seems to be working okay on Firefox except that the list of pied people I had somehow got deleted. Weird. Probably some arcane cookies issue caused by my last update.

  43. 43.

    Wag

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    I mean, we also had Mugabe’s resignation and Mladić’s conviction.

    I’d be a lot more comfortable if Trump’s name was Mrump. Good things come in threes, and three leaders whose names begin with M being convicted or forced from office would be awesome.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yutsano:

    I mean, I know we need to have a conversation about casual touching and hugging, but once we decide as a society that hugging someone in public who is uncomfortable with it is equally as bad as a 32-year-old adult dating teenagers, we’ve lost all sense of proportion.

  50. 50.

    hitchhiker

    Don’t look now, but David effing Brooks has absolutely outdone himself with his latest column.

    Short version: Trump is a victim who might get nailed because Dems hate it that they lost & he screwed up by trying to stop an investigation into nothing, and we really ought to take responsibility for some of the dysfunction in his administration. Also, Whitewater was very exciting but maybe overblown.

    I wish I were kidding. That’s not an exaggeration; what he actually wrote is much worse.

  51. 51.

    Bess

    @BBA:

    It seems to me that we need a scale of offense. And set punishments accordingly.

    Franken and Poppy Bush are apparently guilty of illegal first base offenses and should be required to sit in the corner for an hour while wearing a dunce cap.

    Weinstein is apparently guilty of illegal home run offenses and should face prison time.

  52. 52.

    Amir Khalid

    @BBA:
    So, do you then let the mob rule? Even if people as a whole are bad at nuance, that is a weak argument against waiting for the truth to be determined, in this case by a formal investigation, before rushing to condemn anyone for anything.

  54. 54.

    Shalimar

    @Major Major Major Major: When you start doubting and questioning, you discourage real victims from coming forward. They already face an uphill fight against the system to be believed. The idea is that feminists should support them unquestionably.

    Admittedly, this support does become problematic when you start getting supposed victims who will lie for political partisanship.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    @BBA:

    It’s more helpful than automatically disbelieving them. Deciding who to believe on a case-by-case basis isn’t going to work, because people aren’t good at nuance.

    This is why the Internet court of instant public opinion is so wrong.

    Imagine that you were accused of some crime and the judge instructed the jury, “you don’t have to decide this case by the specific evidence presented. Just use some universal ‘believe or disbelieve.’ Whatever.”

    What you have suggested here is the opposite of justice. This certainly does not help women, or anyone.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    @Shalimar:

    The tricky thing is also, what if you’re in a situation that is open to interpretation? Three women say that they felt that Franken touched them inappropriately while in a public place getting their picture taken with him. Is there a possibility that the touch was accidental or misinterpreted?

    When it comes to what Weinstein was doing, it’s really hard to misinterpret being lured into a separate room and left alone with him.

  57. 57.

    Brachiator

    @Shalimar:

    When you start doubting and questioning, you discourage real victims from coming forward. They already face an uphill fight against the system to be believed. The idea is that feminists should support them unquestionably.

    Nope. You do not want to automatically dismiss a claim, and certainly do not reject a claim just because the purported victim is a woman.

    But you must also question, test, investigate. The WaPo stories about Roy Moore stand up because of the thoroughness of the background investigation, not because the reporters and editors insist that women must simply be believed.

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    I mean, we also had Mugabe’s resignation and Mladić’s conviction

    My Thanksgiving wish is that Trump will follow Mugabe’s example, that before the weekend is over, someone will convince Trump that he should resign, and that we will watch him collect his loot on depart on the waiting yachts of one of his Russian handlers, uh, I mean “friends.”

  60. 60.

    BBA

    @Brachiator: I’d really prefer a world where careful discernment of the truth is prized, but we don’t have that luxury. Elections are decided in the court of public opinion.

    (Part of this is also that, as a white male, I have lots of subconscious, regressive biases that I’m actively trying to counteract.)

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’d really prefer a world where careful discernment of the truth is prized, but we don’t have that luxury. Elections are decided in the court of public opinion.

    I thought that elections were decided by, you know, voting.

    (Part of this is also that, as a white male, I have lots of subconscious, regressive biases that I’m actively trying to counteract.)

    Understandable, but not especially relevant. You still have to try to be reasonable. Don’t over-compensate.

  63. 63.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    Three women say that they felt that Franken touched them inappropriately while in a public place getting their picture taken with him. Is there a possibility that the touch was accidental or misinterpreted?

    Don’t know. Maybe he was copping a cheap feel. In public.

    But this still may not be a capital crime. It merits investigation, but not an automatic resignation or expulsion.

    And I still say that Franken should not even consider resignation until Trump resigns.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    But this still may not be a capital crime. It merits investigation, but not an automatic resignation or expulsion.

    And yet apparently if you say that, you’re enabling rapists, because some people seem to think that what Franken (allegedly) did is just as bad as what Moore and Weinstein did.

  67. 67.

    Brachiator

    @Amir Khalid:

    You’re addressing this to BBA, right?

    Yes. My browser was misbehaving. The quote, etc tools went away. And I guess I selected reply incorrectly when I went back. Sorry.

    This may also be a sign that I should say goodnight to all for now.

    Goodnight.

  68. 68.

    burnspbesq

    @Trentrunner:

    Get your damn priorities in order. When Franken’s vote in the Senate becomes a luxury item, you can have his balls on a plate, but until then SHAADUP.

    While you’re at it, get a sense of proportion. Franken may be a shit, but as far as anyone knows, he hasn’t committed any felonies. Franken and Moore ARE NOT EQUAL.

  69. 69.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Mnemosyne: This is what drives me crazy about this, and plays right into the ratfucking. The lack of any proportionality in the two different situations. This failure to differentiate diminishes the legitimate claims of Weinstein’s and Moore’s accusers.

  70. 70.

    burnspbesq

    @BBA:

    I try to always believe women, no matter what.

    Out of curiosity, would that extend to women who are convicted of perjury, recant an earlier statement, or are torn to shreds on cross-examination?

  75. 75.

    Lurking Canadian

    @burnspbesq: During the UVA Rolling Stone phenomenon, we had people right here at Balloon Juice saying, “believe the woman!” even when the woman was claiming to have been thrown through a plate glass coffee table without needing medical treatment.

    “Believe the woman!” really has been the standard demanded. I’ve never been comfortable with it, so I’m okay with changing to something like “Take the woman seriously and investigate”, but there’s no point pretending this situation hasn’t caused a change in people’s thinking.

  81. 81.

    TenguPhule

    @Doug!:

    I’m afraid “always believe the woman” will quickly be weaponized by the right and will ultimately destroy the whole movement.

    I’m afraid you’re behind the times. Its already happening.

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