Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Let there be snark.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

This fight is for everything.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Republicans don’t trust women.

It’s a doggy dog world.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Accountability, motherfuckers.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

T R E 4 5 O N

We won’t go back.

In my day, never was longer.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Monday Morning Open Thread: Keep A Hand on Your Wallet

Monday Morning Open Thread: Keep A Hand on Your Wallet

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(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)
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What’s on the agenda, as we prepare for another week of Vast Repub Stupidity / Venality?
***********

Among the news to watch for…

The tug-of-war over leadership of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau intensified Sunday as a high-ranking agency official sued to block President Trump from installing his pick to temporarily lead the watchdog agency.

In a lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court of D.C., Leandra English called herself the “rightful acting director” of the CFPB and asked for a temporary restraining order to prevent Trump from appointing White House budget director Mick Mulvaney to the job.

“The President’s purported or intended appointment of defendant Mulvaney as Acting Director of the CFPB is unlawful,” the lawsuit says.

Richard Cordray resigned as CFPB director Friday and designated his chief of staff, English, as his temporary replacement, sparking a legal showdown with the White House over who will run the agency. A few hours after Cordray announced that English would serve as acting director, Trump named Mulvaney, the Office of Management and Budget director and a longtime critic of the CFPB, to the job…

The White House has said it expects both Mulvaney and English to show up to work Monday morning. Mulvaney would be the acting director, while English would be his deputy, administration officials insist.

There is a lot at stake for the CFPB, which now has 1,600 employees and has long been a target of Republican critics who say the agency needs to be reined in. Mulvaney has called the agency a “joke” and advocated for it to be dissolved. In a tweet Saturday, Trump called the CFPB “a total disaster” and said “We will bring it back to life.”…

Whoever takes the reins of the agency Monday morning, their decisions are likely to become subject to a legal challenge. Even mundane actions by the CFPB could be thrown out should their case prevail, legal experts say.

“On the regulatory side, any further rule making will just stop for the time being. Nobody can do anything until everybody knows who is the legitimate director,” said Alan Kaplinsky, head of the Consumer Financial Services Group for law firm Ballard Spahr. “It’s an untenable situation and one that begs for a court determination and a quick one.”…

Reader Interactions

279Comments

  4. 4.

    Bruce K

    Is it cynical for me to say that the Republican plan for governance only starts to make sense once you posit that they’re evil?

  6. 6.

    TS

    @rikyrah: What a difference a couple of generations make. A King of England had to abdicate to marry an American divorcee 80 years ago, with his family disowning him. Now divorce, and marrying divorcees is as common in the British Royal family as it is everywhere else.

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Nicklaus: Republican tax bills put a big bull’s-eye on higher education

    Higher education, though, seems to be the target of an unusually large number of revenue-raising provisions. The House bill does away with the deduction for student-loan interest, trims tax credits available to students and parents, taxes graduate students on the value of tuition waivers and taxes workers for employer-paid tuition.
    …….
    It looks like a multipronged attack on what some Republicans view as an academic elite. According to a survey by the Pew Centers this summer, 58 percent of Republicans believe universities affect the country negatively, while just 36 percent say the effect is positive.

    Among Democrats, 72 percent see colleges having a positive effect, while just 19 percent view them negatively. The divide is striking, but we can’t afford to have higher education become a partisan battleground.

    “It’s hard to understand why people would be proposing this,” says Fred Pestello, president of St. Louis University. “It runs counter to everything that has formed the basis of the country’s economic vitality.”

    Din ding ding ding!!! We have a winner.

  16. 16.

    TS

    @satby: I hadn’t picked up on that one – I was told by my mother many moons ago not to bring home a catholic boy friend – how things have changed in my lifetime. There was also an English Prince (Prince Michael of Kent, I think) who lost his place in line to the throne because he married a Catholic.

    Tis here

    At the time of the marriage, Marie Christine von Reibnitz was not only a Roman Catholic, but also a divorcée. She had previously been married to the banker Thomas Troubridge; they separated in 1973, divorced in 1977, and had their marriage annulled by the Roman Catholic Church a year later, two months before her marriage to Prince Michael. Under the terms of the Act of Settlement 1701, Prince Michael forfeited his place in the line of succession to the throne through his marriage to a Roman Catholic

  18. 18.

    Amir Khalid

    @TS:
    Just two years ago, marrying a Catholic like Meghan Markle would have taken Harry out of the line of succession. The rule change allowing this was approved by Parliament in 2011 but only came into force in 2015. If Harry were to become King (unlikely, unless William and George both predecease him), their eldest child would be ineligible for the throne if Catholic; that rule remains in force.

  19. 19.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: actually, you’re stuck as a Catholic unless you’re excommunicated by the Church, in the Church’s teaching anyway. Practicing or not, she wouldn’t have been considered a potential mate for a royal one generation ago because she was raised Catholic. Not to mention the fact she’s biracial too. Catholic, divorced, biracial: Markle is a precedent shattering fiance.And
    Edited to correct her name.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby: As I said, not that much of a Catholic, and that would be in the eyes of the church. Is Harry going to convert? No? Than her marriage to him will never be recognized by the church.

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @But her emails!!: That is another possibility. They have been reducing funding for higher education for decades now, making it harder and harder for the middle class to afford it.

  26. 26.

    TS

    @Amir Khalid:

    If Harry were to become King (unlikely, unless William and George both predecease him)

    There is also William’s daughter and a third child coming who are ahead of Harry in the line of succession so Harry can continue to enjoy his life free of such thoughts.

    Thanks for the info, I thought there was a new law but didn’t know the details, I assume from your post it is OK to marry a catholic but not to be a catholic. Rather unlikely that any direct descendants of QEII would be raised in the RC faith – but then again, folks probably thought the same about descendants of Henry VIII – and his daughter Mary was a Catholic Queen.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Alt-America: the time for talking about white terrorism is now

    This is how the repression of public discussion about the threat posed by rightwing domestic extremists works.

    On April 4, 2009, Margaret Poplawski awoke sometime around 7am, and discovered that one of the two pit-bull puppies belonging to her son, Richard, had left a puddle on the floor. She woke him up and yelled at him to clean up the mess. A violent verbal shouting match erupted, and eventually Margaret called the cops to have Poplawski thrown out of the house.

    When officers arrived, Margaret invited them in. She didn’t realize that her son was standing directly behind her holding an AK-47 and wearing a bulletproof vest. He opened fire on the cops at point-blank range, killing them both. When a third cop arrived on the scene, Poplawski killed him, too.

    Poplawski, it soon emerged, was a classic far-right conspiracist. He left an easily followed trail of postings on the internet that gave the public a good deal of insight into his motives for gunning down three police officers. Many of these were on white- nationalist websites such as Don Black’s Stormfront, where Poplawski had an account to which he regularly posted. Poplawski was also a fan of conspiracy-mongers Alex Jones and Glenn Beck.

    Poplawski believed that the federal government, the media, and the banking system were all largely or completely controlled by Jews. He thought African Americans were “vile” and non-white races inferior to whites. He also believed that a conspiracy led by “evil Zionists” and “greedy traitorous goyim” was “ramping up” a police state in the United States for malign purposes.

    He had posted a link to Stormfront of a YouTube video featuring Glenn Beck talking with Congressman Ron Paul about concentration camps set up by Fema. (These nonexistent camps are a staple of rightwing conspiracies.) Many of his posts in the weeks leading up to the April 4 shootout indicated an increasing level of paranoia about a coming economic and political collapse under President Obama.

    Poplawski appeared to have bought into SHTF/Teotwawki (Shit Hits The Fan/The End Of The World As We Know It) conspiracy theories hook, line, and sinker. The neo-Nazi Stormfront forums and the antigovernment Infowars site fueled his racist, antisemitic, and conspiratorial mindset.

    But an astonishing thing happened to the Poplawski case when it was picked up and reported on by the mainstream media: most of the information relating to his white-supremacist background and motives vanished.

    Instead, the leads of the news stories around the country focused on Poplawski’s dog peeing on his mother’s carpet as the incident that sparked the killings.

    The New York Times at first completely ignored the white-supremacy aspect of the story, running an Associated Press story that only briefly alluded to Poplawski’s paranoid fears and instead focused on the role of the peeing dog. The MSNBC headline was “Fight over Urinating Dog Got Police to Ambush”; CNN’s was “Urinating Dog Triggered Argument Resulting in 3 Officers’ Deaths.” Only later, when a Times reporter filed a story, did any discussion of the killer’s background appear.

  30. 30.

    Quinerly

    @satby: her maternal great, great, great grandmother was a slave on a Georgia plantation. Highly recommend Meghan’s Wiki page if anyone needs to get up to speed on her. I certainly did.

  31. 31.

    Schlemazel

    I have to say I am always amazed at the number of American’s that A) give a crap about the royal family and B) know the order of succession, particularly since the eternal rules were changes somewhat recently.

  34. 34.

    Amir Khalid

    @TS:
    Per Wikipedia, a Catholic cannot take the UK throne. I think this is the result of the victor in the last Catholic-vs-Protestant fight for the throne being a sore winner.

  38. 38.

    SFAW

    And this makes Zero Days in a Row — that’s 300-plus of ’em — that we wake up to Shitgibbon and his Merry Band of Grifters (lookin’ at YOU, ZEGK and Turtle, among others) NOT trying to destroy America.

    Morons Are Grifting America

  39. 39.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @TS: The British monarch is the head of the state Church of England and cannot by definition be a Catholic, because that would then make the Catholic Pope a superior authority to the head of a Protestant church.

    Henry VIII was a Catholic until he decided it was more convenient not to be one. His daughter “Bloody” Mary was always a Catholic and her brutal reign is the principal reason why rule by Catholic monarchs became untenable. The line of succession was specifically limited to Protestants by the 1701 Act of Succession. This limited the throne solely to the Protestant descendants of Sophia of Hanover (1630-1714) who was the mother of George I.

    The Act of Succession was modified by the 2013 Succession to the Crown Act which removed male primogeniture and allowed those in the line of succession to be married to Catholics, so long as they themselves were not Catholic.

  40. 40.

    TS

    @Woodrowfan:

    given that Edward 8 was pro-NAZI leaning we dodged a bullet there…

    I think his American wife (early 1930s his girlfriend) had much to do with that. Edward was in many ways a reaction against his father, so many of his ideas were anti the British establishment.

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    @Quinerly:

    Good morning from Poco and his tribe!

    Don’t tell Poco, but if I was reading things correctly (in the past few days), Baud! may be looking for a new running mate. This will be confirmed if Baud! issues a statement saying he supports Poco “1000 percent.”

    And good morning to you (and rikyrah, of course).] Although I am disappointed to see that royals-watching seems to be “a thing” in Missouri.]

    ETA: Edited to differentiate between the Windsors (et al.) and the KC baseball team.

  42. 42.

    TS

    @Amir Khalid: I always found it strange that the C of E was anti divorce & the monarch being the head of the C of E could therefore not be a divorcee or marry same. Given that Henry created the C of E so he could get a divorce it makes little sense – rather like the southern protestants voting for the thrice married, twice adulterous trump.

  44. 44.

    TS

    @Quinerly: That anyone could be treated that way – especially for NO cause – is beyond my understanding. I hope they get millions – not that any amount of money will validate what they had to go through.

  45. 45.

    SFAW

    @TS:

    twice adulterous trump.

    That we know of.

    On the other hand, expecting their votes to be anything other than a desire to get/maintain power, no matter the morality, is, shall we say, ostrich-like.

  48. 48.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    Why don’t news stories about the competing CFPB acting heads cite the language of the law that apparently allows Cordray to appoint the acting head? Articles say there’s this controversy but don’t give me any information to understand it. They float over the surface. This drives me crazy.

    I’m preaching to the choir, I know.

    Also facebook is still not letting me post. This drives me crazy too.

  50. 50.

    Quinerly

    @SFAW: I have to be honest…didn’t have a clue who Harry’s girlfriend was until I just checked her Wiki page. And, BTW, Baud has no Wiki page….there is one for “Poco,” though.?

  51. 51.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @TS:

    Given that Henry created the C of E so he could get a divorce it makes little sense

    Henry VIII didn’t want a divorce, he was after an annulment from the Pope. The Popes of the times were inclined to grant such things on the flimsiest of excuses if you happened to be a monarch. Henry’s was that Catherine was his brother’s widow and hence the marriage was incestuous and thus cursed to not produce a male heir. Unfortunately for Henry, Catherine’s nephew was Emperor Charles V who had just sacked Rome and happened to be holding the Pope prisoner at the time. So no annulment.

    In the second, third and fifth marriages he was widowed. The fourth was unconsummated and annulled. The sixth outlived him.

    So Henry was never divorced.

  52. 52.

    satby

    @rikyrah: I agree that’s part of it, but not all of it. In rural areas, higher education also ends up as a factor in depopulation, in that the educated sons and daughters leave for better opportunities elsewhere. And the better educated kids often are at odds politically with their parents and the areas they where grew up. So higher education ruins things two ways: “brainwashing” their children and giving minorities an entry.

  53. 53.

    Brachiator

    I made a note to myself to post this, but see that I have been anticipated. Still. Time to get your resistance on.

    Last week, the Senate dropped their version of the tax reform bill.

    Trump is going to meet with the Republicans Monday to map out their strategy.

    The GOP is going to rush to reconcile the House and Senate bills and try to get something passed before Christmas.

    Tine to call, write, and rally opposition to these massive tax cuts for the wealthy.

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    @satby:

    So higher education ruins things two ways: “brainwashing” their children and giving minorities an entry.

    I love the sad irony of Trump’s white supporters dumping on the value of education even as Trump and his GOP allies make it harder for anyone to be able to afford college.

  56. 56.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @TS:

    Edward was in many ways a reaction against his father, so many of his ideas were anti the British establishment.

    Large sections of the British establishment were pro-Nazi at the time. Edward’s pro-Nazism was fashionable in his circle.

    A significant section of the British Conservative Party wanted to surrender to the Germans in 1940. It was stopped by Churchill taking his section of the Tories into a coalition government with the British Labour Party.

  58. 58.

    Quinerly

    @OzarkHillbilly: obviously…. they are still alive to tell their story and to sue in their own names. In unrelated news, going to hang with our friend, Red, this afternoon. We are finishing up the design on the mosaic for the AirBnB kitchen for “Salle Roche.” I’m royally pissed about the steampunk style lighting that I ordered for it. Seems that it was delivered Friday but stolen off my porch. Just realized it last night when I was checking the tracking info. Customer service with Amazon and UPS contacted. Never had this happen in all my years of city living.

  59. 59.

    Eric S.

    Bonjour chacals.

    After a long delay, weeks or years depending on how you count, the renovation of my bathroom begins tomorrow. Having a one bedroom condo this could be interesting.

    And, while I’ve told him about it Ozzie the Cat shall be most disturbed that his house is being rien apart.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @satby:

    It’s been going on for a while. University of Cincinnati has an “honors” program for Ohio students. It’s a full ride. My oldest was invited to a parent and student meeting down there so I made him go. The whole meeting was dominated by about 10 Right-leaning parents who were really hostile- did they take the kids to church, would they be “brainwashed” etc. It was awful because the admissions people are salespeople and they let this small group take over-they were kissing their asses. I was still selling it to him on the ride home- he finally said “if you like it so much you go there” – it was exactly what he had worked so hard in high school to get away from. He’s 30 in March so this was a while ago.

  63. 63.

    Quinerly

    @satby: let’s hope, but I suspect not. We have had a rash of stolen packages in the city, specifically Soulard. My street is somewhat isolated, though. Narrow one way with all the parking spaces always full. We never had a problem in the past just because of logistics. Big package; I would have thought to be very hard to walk away with at noon on a holiday weekend.

  68. 68.

    HeleninEire

    Just got back from an interview at Dublin City University. I think it went well but you just never know. The Irish are so effing friendly that it can be misinterpreted as “YAY; we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE you.” Anyway, it’s been a year. Time to get off my ass and get a job. But what a year it’s been.

    I’ll report back when I know.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @satby:

    He does. He rarely comes back here. He was funny with the whole “white working class” thing after Trump because he says “don’t tell me how great they are-I went to high school with them” :)

    I think it really was why he worked hard in high school. He was like a man on a mission- get out.

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Quinerly: Ah yes, the Porch Pirates strike again! I’m a little surprised it doesn’t happen more. Tell Red I said “Hey” and I’ll try to get up there to see her soon. I’m a little over due.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @satby:

    i’m sad about him and his wife. They want to move to Oslo. They don’t want to raise children here. My sense talking to them on Thanksgiving was this is a fairly well-developed idea and they may actually go. I feel as if they’ve given up on “Merica.

  74. 74.

    Quinerly

    @satby: in a way I feel like I deserve it. Usually buy local and mostly artisan made for this kind of stuff. Had a friend who was actually going to fabricate the lighting for me for that pipes, gages look. We started pricing materials and we were at double the cost just for materials, not even including his time. I guess this is payback for buying stuff probably made in China and out of lead. I justified it since my friend said what I bought was a steal and he was buying one too….plus, it’s not like we are going to lick the fixtures.

  75. 75.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    @satby: It strikes me as unbelievably selfish of these parents to want to limit their kids’ lives forever and ever so they can keep them nearby. Also so their kids won’t look down on them, I guess.

    I grew up in a WWC neighborhood in Detroit. My parent pushed education as hard as they could.

    ETA: I’m just thinking that many parents must have been pushing education hard at that point in our history. Colleges and universities were being built and funded. That had to have had public backing.

  77. 77.

    Quinerly

    @OzarkHillbilly: You need to try to see her sometime. Have you seen the press she got for the work she has done with Sugar fire? They are franchising and all franchisees have to have some of her work.

  78. 78.

    Sloane Ranger

    If J.R from WV Shows up just to thank them for un-pieing me. I can’t remember what I said to irk you either. When I’m writing late at night I can sometimes be a bit careless in my choice of words so, whatever it was, I’m sorry!

  79. 79.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I moved out here from STL in order to give my sons some semblance of a stable environment as they finished their HS tenures. They both “got out” less than a week after graduating HS. The oldest is in STL, the youngest in NOLA, and here I remain.

    Life is funny that way.

  80. 80.

    satby

    @Quinerly: no one deserves to be the victim of a crime. I’m a local artisan, so I try to support my fellow handcrafters, but not everyone can afford what some people charge for their work. There’s another soap seller in the farmers market who sells her smaller bars of soap for $2-3 more than I sell mine. She uses different oils, no colors, and only essential oil fragrances and she has a dedicated customer base. Her stuff is ok, but if I had to pay $8.00 for a 3 oz bar of soap I couldn’t afford that. Lots of people can’t.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @satby:

    he’s traveled a lot for work so he’s not romanticizing these places- they obviously have their own problems- but the whole oligarch thing just disgusts him-he thinks they have a better quality of life and the work he does is in demand so he thinks he CAN go – it just makes me so sad that they’re doing this reverse immigrant thing. He was an Al Gore supporter in high school! So optimistic. Now he’s like “stick a fork in it- experiment failed”.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    My middle son stayed. He’s in Toledo but same general area- he always fit in though- he has a million friends. My youngest is definitely getting out He has that look about him like he’s leaving, mentally :)

  84. 84.

    Another Scott

    @Quinerly: Check around. Amazon recently shipped me a couple of packages, and the delivery guy even took pictures of them on the porch, but there was no sign of them when I got home. The next morning I found them behind some bushes next to the porch. Never had that happen before. :-/ There’s a chance that something similar happened to your shipment.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  87. 87.

    Quinerly

    @satby: and the $ I save on lighting for Salle Roche can be passed on in savings to all those Balloon Juicers who connect their travels to other Balloon Juicers rental spots.? You still planning that NM trip? Maybe a St. Louis trip is in your future? I’m putting together a little get together at Casa Rodena Winery in Albuquerque for 2/15. O Felix Culpa will be there!

  88. 88.

    satby

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    It strikes me as unbelievably selfish of these parents to want to limit their kids’ lives forever and ever so they can keep them nearby. Also so their kids won’t look down on them, I guess.

    It is, but fear makes people selfish.
    I’m not an expert on rural life based on just living 8 years in a farming area, but the depopulation and job losses then contribute to less schools and hospitals as those services consolidate, less road upkeep, slower repairs to damaged infrastructure (the record for my area was five days with no electricity after a bad summer storm) because the population is too low and spread out. Often too poor too.
    Thriving town centers, local good manufacturing jobs, local schools all started disappearing (fast) within our lifetimes. And now their own children, at least the motivated ones, abandon them too.

  90. 90.

    Sloane Ranger

    @satby: Lady Davina Windsor, the daughter of the Duke of Gloucester, the Queens cousin married a Maori some years back and I believe another very junior royal married a Jamaican lady so not entirely unprecedented. Harry will be the most senior royal by far to marry anyone whose ancestry is not completely European (at least officially).

  91. 91.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: I think your son is wise to consider emigrating. He will get more for his tax dollars, and be in a country that supports education, science, culture, and quality of life and environment. That is true of just about any leading European country.

    We live in the US of Trump and Murdoch. I hope that can change. But they are strip mining our economy, destroying public institutions and confidence, and have no respect for the common goods.

    The US is not sustainable, with grifters and thieves at the helm.

    And the fake religiosity. Founders knew what they were doing, with separation of church and state.

    We could learn. We could.

  92. 92.

    Quinerly

    @Another Scott: Thanks. Been out looking this AM. Pretty sure the Porch Pirates struck. UPS and Fed Ex guys know me pretty well…know my car, know that I’m home. Several orders for this project, including electric fireplace inserts for the living/sleeping area and for the wall in the kitchen. No problems.

  94. 94.

    BellyCat

    @satby:

    In rural areas, higher education also ends up as a factor in depopulation, in that the educated sons and daughters leave for better opportunities elsewhere. And the better educated kids often are at odds politically with their parents and the areas they where grew up

    This is an astute point, rarely mentioned. ANOTHER reason to hate those libtard universities, aside from giving minorities a lift up.

    And what about all those furrners taking over campuses? Oh, right… we’ve already got that covered by canceling visas.

  95. 95.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    @satby: I read an election analysis of Iowa’s slide to the right that said Iowa has the highest HS graduation rate in the country, but the percentage of the population with a college degree is low. Many of those HS grads get college degrees and leave.

    You see the consolidation of farms and towns and schools systems here. I understand the pain that causes. But I seem to remember reading in my own HS social studies books that urbanization has been going on for centuries. I don’t think you can stop it.

  96. 96.

    Quinerly

    @satby: Poco and I wandered on it last year the day after VD. Beautiful grounds and we had the place to ourselves since big celebrations the day before. So now a new tradition, hopefully. Cambodia! Wow! This is the first I have heard of this trip. Last I heard, you were thinking of a driving trip out west. This is exciting!!

  97. 97.

    father pusbucket

    An unpopular corporate tax cut offset by an unpopular middle class tax hike is something.

    This has always been their “something”; the camouflage is just a lot worse than usual.

  98. 98.

    satby

    @Elizabelle: I hate to say I sort of agree. The absolute belligerence of the ignorance is the scariest issue for me, because it’s anti-knowledge and anti-advancement. And I see lots of younger people who, while not as bigoted, are just as lazy about getting educated and knowledgeable about the world.

  99. 99.

    Tokyokie

    Kay
    November 27, 2017 at 8:08 am
    @satby:

    i’m sad about him and his wife. They want to move to Oslo. They don’t want to raise children here. My sense talking to them on Thanksgiving was this is a fairly well-developed idea and they may actually go. I feel as if they’ve given up on “Merica.

    I have a niece who’s also talking about moving to Norway. (And as a classics major, I’m sure her job prospects won’t be any worse in Norway than they are here.) Her parents just roll their eyes at the idea. Me? I bought her a beginning Norwegian textbook, and we hope to study the language together. (I took first-year Norwegian decades ago, and once you get past the pronunciation, it’s really a very simple language, with few verb tenses and limited conjugations.) If I weren’t too old, too decrepit, and too bereft of translatable job skills, I’d consider it as well.

  100. 100.

    satby

    @Quinerly: I mentioned a few days (weeks, maybe?) ago that I finally confirmed a volunteer vacation I had booked a few months after my mother died, but crushed houses, new jobs, and life got in the way of taking it. They finally sent me a request to either confirm or cancel my trip as I had changed dates twice. So I booked for end of this January.

    Still planning the driving trip out west, dates are in a flux.

  102. 102.

    raven

    @satby: I’m reading my favorite Georgia football blog and the owner posted and article about the 4 team selection process that says ” One goal would be geographic diversity,” but he just put “diversity” for the link. Immediately they started with the PC bullshit.

  105. 105.

    tobie

    @Brachiator: I think the other criticism of higher education in rural areas is that kids rack up a lot of debt and don’t gain valuable skills. It’s true college costs a lot for a number of reasons, including diminished state and federal aid, but these folks also vote against any politician who has a debt-free college plan, so I think the complaint runs deeper. Rural America’s chip on shoulder runs so deep. Nothing gets their goat as much as the idea that liberal/coastal elites look down on them. Methinks the imagined slights come from the fact that at some level they know they are second rate.

  106. 106.

    SFAW

    @Quinerly:

    I have to be honest…didn’t have a clue who Harry’s girlfriend was until I just checked her Wiki page.

    Interesting. Ozark used the same excuse.

    I, on the other hand, have no idea who any of them is/are, except for what I read here.

  108. 108.

    Quinerly

    @satby: I’m behind on BJ comments and adventures. Between that last trip to NC to put another dent in the clean out/organization of the house I grew up in and my Windows phone refusing to load any BJ comments, I’m out of the loop. Missed Corner Stone’s triumphant return. I am now catching up on these rumors about Baud dumping Poco from the ticket. I guess I’ll have to be one to break it to him. Baud really should be the one. He’ll probably just send some two bit security guy, but I digress.?

  110. 110.

    gvg

    @TS: Henry VIII got an annulment not a divorce by leaving the Catholic church. Yes he was married to Catherine for 20 years but the annulment was based on the fact that C had been previously betrothed to his older brother who died young (and C was a child) putting an important alliance at risk so then she was betrothed to Henry. the divorce was justified as some sort of incest with a lot of money. Only rich powerful men could get out of marriages that way but it was terribly important not to be divorced for reasons I don’t understand today. Recall Henry executed the next several. The pope at the time was as corrupt as usual but I think he was related to Catherine or close to her father so he wasn’t allowing the annulment.
    Other factors were Henry’s father had won a civil war and married the surviving daughter of the other side. Henry VIII thought he needed a son to succeed him but Catherine had 1 daughter alive after years of marriage and was getting old. He didn’t know he was the reason for the lack of children (syphilis)
    The church was incredibly corrupt. this is also a reason the reformation took off. Henry had support for leaving the church or he couldn’t have done it.

    the divorce stigma was very real till recently. Some people thought it would be a problem for Reagan. I think that was the last time it was brought up but honestly some people still cared even then.

  111. 111.

    tobie

    @SFAW: Debt free college would have applied to all institutions of higher learning, public or private. I guess that makes me a neoliberal shill for liking that plan.

  112. 112.

    Quinerly

    @SFAW: I truly had never heard of her. Guess I have seen an advertisement for the show she is on but never watched it. Didn’t even recognize her name. NPR did have a segment on the engagement this AM very early. First I heard. Then all the Balloon Juicers who love NPR followed suit, it seems.?

  114. 114.

    TriassicSands

    I nominate Leandra English as Person of the Year.

    I nominate Donald Trump as POS for All Eternity.

  116. 116.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    i’m sad about him and his wife. They want to move to Oslo. They don’t want to raise children here. My sense talking to them on Thanksgiving was this is a fairly well-developed idea and they may actually go. I feel as if they’ve given up on “Merica.

    Well, you’ll have somewhere to stay in Europe :)

  117. 117.

    d58826

    So much winning it’s hard to take and it’s only Monday morning:

    Long Divided, Iran Unites Against Trump and Saudis in a Nationalist Fervor
    By THOMAS ERDBRINKNOV. 26, 2017

    After years of cynicism, sneering or simply tuning out all things political, Iran’s urban middle classes have been swept up in a wave of nationalist fervor.

    The changing attitude, while some years in the making, can be attributed to two related factors: the election of President Trump and the growing competition with Saudi Arabia, Iran’s sectarian rival, for regional dominance.

    Iranians listened during the 2016 campaign as Mr. Trump denounced the Iran nuclear treaty as “the worst deal ever negotiated” and promised to tear it up. They watched in horror when, as president, he sold more than $100 billion worth of weapons to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and participated in a traditional war dance in Riyadh. And they are alarmed at the foreign policy moves of the young Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, whom they see as hotheaded and inexperienced.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/26/world/middleeast/iran-nationalism-saudi-arabia-donald-trump.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    Trump’s tax plan contains anti-abortion language that could potentially have far-reaching consequences for women’s health. The Republicans literally put anti-abortion language in a tax bill! The #GOPTaxPlan is a #BadDealForWomen https://t.co/Tl3FgSCgLY

    — Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017

  121. 121.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: Ummmmm, sorry, I have not commented at all on the pending royal nuptials. I commented on the Catholic Church and their ridiculous adherence to 14th century mores and practices.

  122. 122.

    d58826

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know we have beaten the WWC to death but bear with me a minute. F. Zakarras had a special on yesterday going over why Der Fuhrer won. They interviewed a guy in NE Ohio. Life long D. Until 2012 when the plant closed solidly middle class, house, mortgage, the whole nine yards. Today is a part time rent-a-cop living in a trailer park. He voted for Trump.
    Now there are a blizzard of reasons as to why jobs have disappeared. There are another blizzard of reasons why they are not coming back. But when you are going down for the third time you will grab at any straw to stay afloat. And Trump was that straw. Granted he is not going to deliver in any meaningful way; and most if not all of his policies will make this guy’s situation worse but as the man said desperate times call for desperate measures. What did M. Douglas say in the American President about eating the sand. Well a vote for Trump was eating the sand

    And the D’s are still arguing over 2016 and Donna Brazille.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    Well well well

    Former Consumer Financial Protection Bureau Director Richard Cordray’s successor sues the White House over Trump’s appointment of Mick Mulvaney to head the agency https://t.co/fwQtsHR7Du pic.twitter.com/PM35bJJgw9

    — CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) November 27, 2017

  124. 124.

    rikyrah

    Uh huh

    Uh huh

    Senate GOP tax bill hurts the poor more than originally thought, CBO finds

    Source: The Washington Post

    By Heather Long November 26 at 9:08 PM

    The Senate Republican tax plan gives substantial tax cuts and benefits to Americans earning more than $100,000 a year, while the nation’s poorest would be worse off, according to a report released Sunday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

    Republicans are aiming to have the full Senate vote on the tax plan as early as this week, but the new CBO analysis showing large, harmful effects on the poor may complicate those plans. The CBO also said the bill would add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, a potential problem for Republican lawmakers worried about America’s growing debt.

    Democrats have repeatedly slammed the bill as a giveaway to the rich at the expense of the poor. In addition to lowering taxes for businesses and many individuals, the Senate bill also makes a major change to health insurance that the CBO projects would have a harsh impact on lower-income families.

    By 2019, Americans earning less than $30,000 a year would be worse off under the Senate bill, CBO found. By 2021, Americans earning $40,000 or less would be net losers, and by 2027, most people earning less than $75,000 a year would be worse off. On the flip side, millionaires and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 would be big beneficiaries, according to the CBO’s calculations. (In the CBO table below, negative signs mean people in those income brackets pay less in taxes).

  125. 125.

    Quinerly

    @satby: oh, I know all about the NPR haters in this community. I just can’t get myself that worked up over it. Some good programming…very good local programming here. Although, I’ll skip Saint Bernie this AM. He’s being interviewed on The Takeaway….I think. They will be discussing what’s wrong with the Dem Party. I can do without.

  129. 129.

    Neldob

    Now I’m scared sleepless, again. The Right Wing NYT has an article about the Family Research Council’s pact with the devil for good things, christian things, like tax breaks for political speech from the pulpit. Terrifying. Must send more money to democrats.

  130. 130.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @satby: You (and Quinerly) are welcome to visit, whenever your schedule allows!

    And – good morning! Today is the last teaching day of the semester. Hurray!

  131. 131.

    Brachiator

    @Quinerly:

    NPR did have a segment on the engagement this AM very early. First I heard. Then all the Balloon Juicers who love NPR followed suit, it seems

    I knew who she was. I don’t listen to NPR.

    Then again, I know who the Kardashians are. I ain’t proud.

  132. 132.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Quinerly: I thought Nationwide was on our side. What a crazy story. Hope that couple gets millions for the harassment to which they were subjected by Nationwide and the police.

  133. 133.

    tobie

    @d58826: The story you refer to is not new. I feel like I’ve heard countless variations on it since November. What I wonder is how many Trump voters were people who once worked in now shuttered plants. My sense is that what propelled him to victory was actually the rural (non-industrial) vote. What else to say? The stimulus wasn’t big enough, the malaise from the great recession ran deeper, and once Dems lost the House in 2010 not a single new investment could be made to tide over the unemployed factory worker.

  134. 134.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @d58826:

    as the man said desperate times call for desperate measures.

    As a lifetime member of the WWC I can only say to this man, “Here’s your vasel!ne.” I’m sorry, I don’t buy it. That may well be his excuse for voting as he did but that is all it is. The rich have been fucking the working classes since time immemorial. To think billionaire donald trumping duck was going to help him the man would have to totally and completely ignore the entirety of trump’s life with all it’s history of time and again screwing people every fucking chance he got. And the man did ignore it.

    And what, pray tell, could possibly have so distracted this man from the plainly obvious?

    Besides, CLINTON!

  135. 135.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Ummmmm, sorry, I have not commented at all on the pending royal nuptials.

    “Is Harry going to convert? No? Than her marriage to him will never be recognized by the church.”

    J’accuse!

  137. 137.

    tamiasmin

    Mr. Mulvaney will be able to get some valuable advice from Mr. Tillerson about downsizing an ”unnecessary” agency.

  139. 139.

    SFAW

    @MomSense:

    I regret not moving to Oslo when I had the chance.

    Well, you could always move to Norway. It’s also not that far from Paris. (Or Poland. Or Denmark. Or Naples. But stay away from Oxford.)

  140. 140.

    Brachiator

    @tobie:

    I think the other criticism of higher education in rural areas is that kids rack up a lot of debt and don’t gain valuable skills.

    I don’t know. Could be some of that. But I think that some of the most vocal criticism comes from college educated conservative pundits who are trying to stir shit up. It’s part of the deliberate campaign to anger white people and to pretend that the most aggrieved people in the world are the WWC.

    Also some ministers who pretend that their college and divinity degrees don’t count as higher education.

  143. 143.

    SFAW

    @tamiasmin:

    Mr. Mulvaney will be able to get some valuable advice from Mr. Tillerson about downsizing an ”unnecessary” agency.

    Sounds like Rick Perry had a case of “right church, worng pew” re: wiping out various departments.

  144. 144.

    NorthLeft12

    Read the following on Hullabaloo;

    The group’s next target is Rep. Dave Brat (R-Va.), whose district includes Chesterfield and who earlier this year complained that “the women are in my grill no matter where I go” — a reference to the activists who protested against efforts by Brat and other House Republicans to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

    This is in reference to a newly formed group, The Liberal Women of Chesterfield County, that is currently winning elections and making life miserable for Republicans and conservatives in Virginia. I especially like that they are proud of being liberals and are redefining what that means. This is what a successful resistance looks like.

  145. 145.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: There is a certain amount of money and some hassles one can go through to have a first marriage annulled. Poof! It didn’t happen (according to the Church). The critical factor seems to be the quality of the donations to The Sacred Mother of Perpetual Torture, etc.

  146. 146.

    Barbara

    @Viva BrisVegas:

    Unfortunately for Henry, Catherine’s nephew was Emperor Charles V who had just sacked Rome and happened to be holding the Pope prisoner at the time. So no annulment.

    Yes, it’s hard to say what would have happened if the Pope had not been under duress, but another problem for Henry was that he had specifically obtained papal dispensation to marry Catherine in the first place, on the basis that her marriage to Henry’s brother, named Arthur, had never been consummated. Arthur was ill his whole life, so this was a very believable story. Of course they dressed it up as “new evidence,” but it was hard to give it much credibility, more than 20 years later when they basically tried to plead a completely reversed story. Failure to produce a male heir was almost certainly a combination of bad luck (historians believe it likely that Anne Boleyn was Rh negative, explaining why she was able to have only one healthy child), his own bad genes, and primitive medical understanding.

  148. 148.

    Immanentize

    @Brachiator:

    Also some ministers who pretend that their college and divinity degrees don’t count as higher education.

    You are of course referring to the ones who insist on being called, “Doctor.”

  149. 149.

    bemused

    I just read that toddler president is hosting an event honoring Native American code talkers this afternoon. I got an instant headache imagining how he will fuck that up.

  152. 152.

    Scotian

    I first started treating the GOP and the American far right as my political enemy when I saw the rise of anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and anti-science within it. I am 50 this year, and that has been a part of my political credo and beliefs for over 40 of them now. Yes, I know, most kids could and do care less about politics, I was raised in that world so I started young. Thankfully I got into science and SF even more so. Anyway, I look at the USA and see one side trying, with all their own negatives, trying to improve conditions from the few for the many, whereas the other side wants the good of the many to be transferred solely to the good of the few, or the one. Never been happier to be Canadian where that mindset even at its most “benign” still triggers a lot of backlash up here.

    Frankly, America and Americans have been scaring me more and more since 1980. Reagan worried me, mainly though because he was anti-governing and then once his faculties clearly started to be diminished while in office. GHWB I actually was fine with for the most part and he did a good job of managing the fall of the Berlin Wall and then the Fall of the USSR on his watch. Clinton, well we all saw where that went, especially with the Gingrich Contract On America and the moralizing while committing much worse acts himself let alone his replacement Hasturt (W.H.A.T. A. S.H.O.C.K.). 2000 though was where you really started to freak me out, and the last 17 years have not made me feel any bettter, and es, that INCLUDED during Obama’s time because he was too hopy-changy and not enough clear eyed about the political realities and foes he faced, and in the process let the GOP run rampant at the State and Congressional levels. So I put some of the current reality on him too, not for failing to stop these folks, but from failing to see the need to put real effort into it while President. That to me was a basic political dynamic, yet the greatest gutting of the Dems at the State levels were on his watch, and what was his reaction/response for dealing with it?

    Yeah, sadly. As a foreign policy President I have few issues with the man, but on domestic politics frankly I had major problems because of his lack of understanding of the evil (and I use that word most carefully, deliberately, intentionally, and with clear forethought) he faced and was out to stop him. I also thought he let the financial services sector get off too lightly in 2008, and sure enough they are ready to return to their old status quo in a decade. If Obama and the Dems had really pushed it this would be a far harder project a la FDR, instead of what we are seeing today, but that is another issue/argument for another comment.

    The true point at which I think this path was locked in? When one of the two major governing parties decided to adopt a position of anti-governing as their core belief. That is so inherently destructive to any social contract framework based in the rule of law it is obviously a tool that will lead to its destruction. Believing in reduced, smaller government, more efficient government still believes that governing has a positive role/benefit for the society as a whole. Believing that no government is best, that all government is inherently bad/wrong/evil, especially if it dares seek out tax revenue to operate, well that is a ptah for where the rule of law is replaced again with the rule of force, in that who had the most force makes the rules. The point of social contracts and rule of law open societies like we in the West developed over the past few hundreds of years was and is to get AWAY from that!

    Sorry folks, but being your neighbour is not a lot of fun at the moment.

  153. 153.

    SFAW

    @bemused:

    I just read that toddler president is hosting an event honoring Native American code talkers this afternoon. I got an instant headache imagining how he will fuck that up.

    Maybe he’ll wear a headdress, refer to them as “Injuns”? Talk about Sand Creek in glowing terms? Say that he had a lot of respect for Sitting Bull? And “that Gandhi guy”?

  155. 155.

    Immanentize

    @raven: and Lawyers. Don’t forget the Lawyers!

    ETA. Now that I wrote what I wrote — are you not thinking of the word “Professor” not “Doctor?”

  156. 156.

    raven

    @Immanentize:

    Doctor was in use for many centuries before there were universities, or degrees. It was used to refer to an especially learned person, one who was authorized and qualified to teach a particular subject. Which might be medicine, philosophy, theology, law, logic, history, etc.

    Medicine came later but they include it here.

  157. 157.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Kay: FWIW I made the opposite decision. To strengthen my already strong ties. As one character in the movie I saw on the Thanksgiving Day say, no country is perfect, you have to work to make it perfect.

    ETA: I also don’t fault your son, I made a similar decision when I was much younger than he is now.

  158. 158.

    raven

    In OE and ME, a doctor was a leech (lǣce in OE) which gave us many other words:
    leechbook — book of prescriptions
    leechcraft — art of healing; medicament, remedy, prescription
    leechcraftig (leechcrafty) — skilled in medicine
    leechchest — medicine chest
    leechdom — medicament, medicine; salvation
    leechdomlic — salutary, beneficial, health-giving
    leechdomness — cataplasm, poultice
    leechfee — doctor’s fee
    leechfinger — fourth finger
    leechhouse — sick room, hospital
    leechiren — surgeon’s knife, lancet
    leechsalve — medicinal ointment
    leechseax — lancet
    leechwyrt (leechwort) — medicinal herb, drug

  160. 160.

    Barbara

    @tobie:

    I think the other criticism of higher education in rural areas is that kids rack up a lot of debt and don’t gain valuable skills.

    No, I don’t think that’s the case at all. The real knock on higher education is that kids who have obtained it don’t tend to return to where they grew up. They go elsewhere.

    Anyone who is familiar with a rural area will understand when I say that the world seems to be divided into those who are proud of their kids’ achievement and those who are deathly afraid that their children will leave if they succeed in school. Unfortunately, sabotage is not rare. My in laws lived in a rural area and my mother in law taught school. They both referred to this phenomenon to explain why certain families seemed to be permanently stuck. They had a community college located five minutes from where they lived. Nearly any student could spend the last one or two years of high school taking classes there for next to nothing.

    So a lot of whining that makes it sound as if the so-called WWC are like baby birds in the nest, caught up in circumstances that are beyond their control, is about a lifestyle that actually resulted from their own choices — but the consequences of those choices have dramatically worsened even over the last 20 years. I feel some measure of sympathy but I am unwilling to undertake the futile task of reorienting the world so that what turned out to be bad choices don’t have negative repercussions.

    ETA: And of course, I am unwilling to buy into the convenient story that their loss of status is due to immigrants and “ethnics.” The enduring shame of the Republican party is that they are willing to indulge that fantasy.

  161. 161.

    tobie

    @d58826: Sorry to beat this horse to death but this point really bothers me:

    F. Zakarras had a special on yesterday going over why Der Fuhrer won. They interviewed a guy in NE Ohio. Life long D. Until 2012 when the plant closed.

    This would make sense if unemployment in this country were 10% or higher. By the time of the election (and since), we’ve been at full employment. What the Republicans did was convince people that the economy was cratering when in fact it was recovering. Zakarria should know better. Economic anxiety is the excuse Trump voters use to excuse their hate.

  162. 162.

    raven

    Meaning “holder of highest degree in university” is first found late 14c.; as is that of “medical professional” (replacing native leech (n.2)), though this was not common till late 16c.

  164. 164.

    Immanentize

    @raven: yes I looked it up. You are correct! I tried to edit my edit but I think I ran out of time. Interesting! But do any sects still refer to any Minister as Doctor without a degree? And do any ministers actually demand it?

  166. 166.

    d58826

    @tobie: I agree about the hate part. But most folks vote by their ‘gut’ not a phd dissertation on the unemployment rate. And Trump was able to hit the ‘gut’ issue, at least with enough people to flip WI/PA/MI. And to shift the focus of hate/anger to make it acceptable. And I think Zakarris point was this is what the voters were thinking not what Fareed knew from reading gov’t statistics.

  167. 167.

    tobie

    @Barbara: I don’t disagree with you. That’s why I said that if rural America was really concerned about the cost of higher education, they would have supported a debt-free college plan. They didn’t. There’s this assumption that if your grandfather did something and your father did it and you do it too, your children should also do it. That the world’s changing and has made most of these skills obsolete is terrifying to the WWC. They believe in tough love for everyone but themselves.

  168. 168.

    Immanentize

    @raven: PS. I got a final answer from an accident reconstruction specialist and flyer from Michigan on the Spitfire question : It would turn but very. Slowly because of the mechanics and oil. However, a Spitfire could not glide for 7 minutes.

    ETA. I should have said “engineer and expert” instead of “specialist.”

  170. 170.

    tobie

    @d58826: Yes, but the gut feeling was a completely manufactured sentiment. The WWC was not materially worse off than they had been 5 years ago or 10 years ago. But they were convinced that others were getting things too easily. Remember the bullshit about Obama phones? I’m not saying one should spout statistics about unemployment or growth rate as part of a campaign. But I think you do have to ask why certain voters were susceptible to manipulation. And the answer is not pretty.

  171. 171.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: No, you are willfully full of shit. ;-)

    The comment you are focusing on was the 2nd of 2 responses to satby’s @satby: assertion of Markle’s Catholicism (something I was totally unaware of). My first response was

    No divorcee is that much of a Catholic.

    Which is a reference to the fact that in the Catholic church one does not get divorced. Period. Ever. It is not possible for a Catholic to get divorced. Catholics get their marriages annulled, which means the marriage never existed to begin with. And if a person ends their Catholic marriage thru divorce, the church still considers them married. If they got married outside of the Catholic church, in the church’s eyes they were never really married to begin with.

    If Markle got divorced, she can’t be that much of a Catholic.

    As to Harry converting, this is a condition to marriage in the Catholic church… Hmmmmm, I now seem to recall some obscure piece of doctrine that allows for marriage in the church of a Catholic to a person of a different faith, so long as they promise to raise the children in the Catholic Church. Not sure, that didn’t exist when my parents got married.

    But then, you really don’t give a rat’s ass about Catholic doctrine, do you?

  174. 174.

    d58826

    @tobie:

    That the world’s changing and has made most of these skills obsolete is terrifying to the WWC

    Zahkarris hit on this a bit also. Change is hard. Most of us just like to get up in the morning and go about our business just like we did yesterday. Oversimplification but when the country went thru the transition from mostly rural/farm to industrial the change was hard but you could see a path – i.e. move to city and get a job building cars. Part of problem today is for many of these folks they played by the rules but the rules changed abruptly. Now maybe most could adapt to the new rules but there is no clear path to those new rules.

  175. 175.

    The Moar You Know

    Anyone who is familiar with a rural area will understand when I say that the world seems to be divided into those who are proud of their kids’ achievement and those who are deathly afraid that their children will leave if they succeed in school. Unfortunately, sabotage is not rare.

    @Barbara: Truth. My mother’s parents decided alcoholism would keep her down on the farm. Didn’t work, she went to college. Didn’t work on her little brother, he went to college. Worked great on her sister, never finished high school.

    One is a CEO, one designs manufacturing plants for transmissions, and one has been married seven times (yes I meant seven, welfare via alimony) and that one’s kids are all convicted multiple-strike felons.

    I always encourage kids to leave wherever they grew up, even if it’s really nice/wealthy. If you stay odds are very high you won’t amount to much.

  176. 176.

    Citizen Alan

    @rikyrah:

    The CBO also said the bill would add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, a potential problem for Republican lawmakers worried about America’s growing debt.

    There are no such Republicans. Republicans pretend to care about the debt only to the extent necessary to demagogue against democratic spending proposals. “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter” is what they say whenever they’re in charge.

  178. 178.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: I have, and sad to say for those around here will again, said quite a bit about the Catholic Church. As an ex-Catholic, rest assured, very little of it has been positive.

  181. 181.

    d58826

    @tobie:

    but the gut feeling was a completely manufactured sentiment

    There is some truth to that but the jobs have disappeared. The guy that interviewed did have a good job at a steel mill and now he is a rent-a-cop. That isn’t manufactured. That he is getting totally played by Trump/the GOP/and the 1% is also true but he is more worried about putting food on the table and
    having medical care for his kids. A fact that shows how disconnected he is since Trump will take away obamacare. It’s like all those folks in KY who voted for the governor who promised to take away their medicaid.

    The fears and anger may be misplaced and to a large degree stoked by Trump/Faux news but that is what these folks believe. And there is enough kernel of truth that it will be hard to change their minds.

  182. 182.

    tobie

    @Another Scott: My understanding is that in economics full employment means anything less than a 5% unemployment rate. 5% is the threshold since there are always a certain number of people in-between jobs. That it was only in late 2015 and 2016 that we witnessed the first wage growth for the middle class is significant.

  184. 184.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: you are correct about marrying a person of a different faith in the Catholic Church. I was raised Catholic — baptized, confirmed a married in the Church. However my wife was (horrors!) A Lutheran. All that nasty stuff about grace getting between us….

    We actually had to endure a special process so that we could be married by the President of the University where I then worked — a Catholic priest. It was called by the Church a “mixed marriage.”. No joke.

    When we were going through our pre-wedding process (which was just six wonderful meals at our home with the priest) he finally got to the part about raising children Catholic. The exact wording was: “Will you (Imm) do everything in your power to insure your children will be raised Catholic?”. I turned to Julie and said, “Are we going to raise our kids as Catholics?”. She said, “No way!”. The priest looked at us smiling and said, “Well, I guess you have done everything possible.”. Then I poured us all another glass of wine.

  186. 186.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    You seem to have a lot invested in this “argument,” especially in the “that Access Hollywood tape is fake!” sense.

    My, my, my.

    But then, you really don’t give a rat’s ass about Catholic doctrine, do you?

    Well, I wouldn’t put it that way, being married to a (lapsed) Catholic, whose siblings still observe/practice. And I used to be the [SPOILER ALERT!] Easter Bunny when all the various children were little. [No, I didn’t dress up for the role, wise guy.] And I do pay some amount of attention to what Francis does, although that’s not really doctrine, I guess.

    But you’re right, it’s not high on my list of things to worry about.

    ETA: You’re still worng. [Sticks tongue out]

  187. 187.

    Citizen Alan

    @Barbara:

    My mother pushed education for both my sister and myself, but we both ended up staying nearby, though I think she would have supported us if we had moved out of state. My late father at one point actually encouraged me to drop out of grad school and get a job at a local factory. “If you work real hard, I bet in 15 or 20 years you can get into management,” I remember him saying. As I recall the plant shutdown and moved to Mexico about five years later.

  188. 188.

    schrodingers_cat

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am not a Catholic, nor an expert on Catholicism. I was just comparing the personal experiences I had with Catholics and other Christians. I am not disputing your opinions either. In my ten years of Catholic school, where many of our teachers were nuns, I had not heard “God” and Jesus invoked as many times I do in one speech of a standard R politician.

  189. 189.

    bemused

    @tobie:

    I just read a report that unemployment is about 4% on the Iron Range, NE MN. You wouldn’t know it from listening to most rightwingers up here. They’re waiting for a copper/nickel mine to bring prosperity again. The report said one big issue is wages which the rightwingers won’t bother to investigate why wages haven’t risen or have risen very little in last few decades for majority of Americans.

  190. 190.

    Jeffro

    Rubin in today’s WaPo: The Pathetic Neediness of Trump

    Michelle Obama likes to say, “Being president doesn’t change who you are, it reveals who you are.” In the cauldron of the presidency when surrounded by sycophants to one side and brutal critics to the other, and faced with constitutional and practical limitations on executive power, Trump’s already weak temperament, intellect and psyche are stressed. Before becoming president he lied and boasted to assuage his ego; he now lies constantly and more outrageously to deny failure in the Oval Office. He was naturally suspicious and untrusting; now he’s vexed by unhinged paranoia, making him a patsy for conspiracy theories in office. He never bothered to concentrate on intellectual pursuits and learn from others before; now he’s a know-nothing who relies on aides to clean up his gaffes and deploys the excuse of “Fake news!” to conceal his jaw-dropping ignorance. Unfortunately, Trump has virtually no redeeming qualities to counterbalance his inadequacies.

    ‘Virtually’ none, Ms. Rubin? Name one.

  191. 191.

    Immanentize

    @bemused: There is a concerted legal effort by Republican luminaries to end all Native sovereignty. It is very very worrisome in the Indian community.

  193. 193.

    SFAW

    @Immanentize:

    When we were going through our pre-wedding process (which was just six wonderful meals at our home with the priest) he finally got to the part about raising children Catholic. The exact wording was: “Will you (Imm) do everything in your power to insure your children will be raised Catholic?”. I turned to Julie and said, “Are we going to raise our kids as Catholics?”. She said, “No way!”. The priest looked at us smiling and said, “Well, I guess you have done everything possible.”. Then I poured us all another glass of wine.

    Great story, thanks!

  194. 194.

    tobie

    @d58826: Is the guy representative? That’s the question. The media has been running with that narrative for months but I just don’t buy it. What I’ve seen in my very blue collar county, where just about everyone works in the housing trade, is that the WWC is doing okay but the shock of the crash in 2009 still wears on them. Obama and HRC both tried to reach these voters by coming up with proposals to revise manufacturing. HRC talked about this a lot in her speeches–that’s how she won be me over–so it’s not like there wasn’t any outreach. The WWC didn’t want to hear it because it was easier to blame elites, Latinos, blacks, the Chinese, etc.

  195. 195.

    Immanentize

    Hello moderator of the morning. I seem to be oddly in moderation for a comment about a propeller….

  197. 197.

    Immanentize

    @bemused: the first circuit is particularly hostile to Indian claims. I have done some work on behalf of the Wampanoags — both Gayhead and Mashpee. I think it is partly the casino cash that attracts these lawyers, but they are on a mission to end tribal rights, be they treaty-based or statutory.

  198. 198.

    The Simp in the Suit

    @OzarkHillbilly: We really have reached the point that Republicans are “for” ANYTHING they are told to be “for” by the wurlitzer.

    Pedophiles? Sure.
    Nazis? You bet!
    Russians? Da!
    Drinking Drano? Right on!

    And they’re “against” anything the wurlitzer tells them to be against.

    Education? Evil!
    Good wages? Evil!
    Healthcare? Evil!
    Peace? Evil!

  201. 201.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: Thanx for the affirmation of my very imperfect memory. It really sucks when you can’t remember if you are correct on something or not.

    @SFAW: Thought so. :-)-

  202. 202.

    Epicurus

    Thank goodness Susan Sarandon is around to remind us that Hillary would have us in a war! She completely ignores the fact that we are fighting at least two and probably have active military in Africa and elsewhere. I have lost any respect I may have ever had for her, but still think she is (was?) a phenomenal actress.

  203. 203.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): My future father sent my future mother back to her folks & left WV in 1940 for Baltimore to look for work. He slept on the sofa of his brother (an earlier emigrant from The Sticks who was a machinist in one of the factories) until he did. As a result I grew up in what was at one time the nation’s largest R4 (Redneck Refugee Resettlement Region).

    Those refugees were a different breed from the ones who stayed in Appalachia in the same way that my grandparents (who left il Mezzogiorno for the US between 1898 and 1907) were different from those who stayed in Italy. They wanted something better for themselves – & they wanted something still better for their kids.

    And they understood that the key to the latter was education. The day I was born, Dad opened a savings account in my name where he stashed whatever he could afford toward my college tuition, in case anything happened to him beforehand. He put both kids through college & to his dying day was proud that his boys never needed to scrub their hands raw with Lava soap when they came home from their good white-collar jobs.

    To their credit, the relatives who stayed in The Hills never seemed to resent his leaving. Maybe because they found decent-paying work in construction or coal-mining. I wonder if they’d have felt the same in today’s environment. We’ve seen the reports of widespread despair in the rural area – & widespread disdain for those who’ve moved away for higher education & a better, radically different life.

    The sad thing is that both groups are now disaffected – the stay-behinds as the “good jobs” that required not much more than a strong back have vanished, never to return, & the emigrants as they find their own (& their children’s) job prospects shrinking at the same time that the field of competition is (so they believe) being tilted away from them (in fact, being leveled so that they no longer start in a privileged position – “to the privileged, equality feels like oppression”). As a result both groups are easy pickin’s for Herrenvolkisch resentment & the scoundrels who use it to divide & despoil.

  205. 205.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: I know, and while I have known more than a few good nuns and priests (and lay people), I also had first hand experience with how the Church dealt with the abuse of children. My anger is with the Church and certain “powers that be” with in it.

  209. 209.

    Doug R

    @OzarkHillbilly: As a retired overnight driver, this is why we used to require a signature when delivering a package. People keep ordering so many things online and then don’t like staying home to sign for them. I never quite understood the concept of ordering common household items online, if you are out of the house anyway, why not just buy it at the local supermarket or Costco?
    This is one of the reasons Amazon has such low prices. Most of their items don’t require a signature, they can cram trucks full of boxes and expect the drivers to deliver about 50% more than the old days. One of the many reasons I took the chance to retire early.

  210. 210.

    NorthLeft12

    @bemused: That [wage stagnation] is the one issue that really has me baffled. I have absolutely no idea how Republicans can keep most of their base in line. Do they actually say that if taxes on businesses are lowered that employers will somehow share this windfall with their employees?
    That was one of the key points that Sen. Sherrod Brown made in his back and forth with Sen. Hatch. Businesses will never just give money to their employees just because they are wildly profitable. They will only pay more if they have to by legislation, negotiation, or fear of losing necessary personnel.
    I am sure there are a few examples that people will throw at me in reply [Henry Ford!!], but those are mostly outliers.

  212. 212.

    Dave

    @SFAW: Besides not giving a rats ass about Catholic doctrine has been a defining trait of American Catholics for some time now. As a properly lapsed Catholic it’s jarring to me when people actually do give a rat’s ass. Now the important things like shame and guilt we take those seriously.

  213. 213.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Jeffro:

    Name one.

    He loves his children. Well, not Eric. He hasn’t talked to Tiffany in years. I suspect he’ll throw Junior under the Mueller bus in a NY second. But he definitely does love Ivanka, in a Bibli… Wait a minute… Oh damn, just forget I ever said anything at ll.

  214. 214.

    Ruckus

    @But her emails!!:
    Conservatives don’t want an educated public. An educated public is not nearly as malleable as an uneducated one.
    You quite probably have a point though, they want the paper to brag to their friends and to the lessors that they and their kids have that piece of paper. It’s not that they value the education, they want the status.

  216. 216.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    @NorthLeft12: Exactly. To quote Woody Guthrie: “Take it easy, boys [and girls], but take it.”

    @Uncle Cosmo: Something has gone wrong with white people. I’d guess it’s the loss of privilege and racism, but when I look at the lowered age at death and the opioid epidemic, I don’t know. The thing is, at the moment, they’re working to hurt everybody else, so it’s hard to be sympathetic. And I’m not.

  217. 217.

    different-church-lady

    @Doug R: When, one day, Jeff Bezos controls the entire money supply of the United States, we will finally look back and wonder how we let this happen.

    Until then, we will continue paying him to deliver paper towels to our porches.

  218. 218.

    Ken

    @NorthLeft12:

    Businesses will never just give money to their employees just because they are wildly profitable.

    Of course not. Those funds must be distributed to the shareholders. Anything else would be a breach of the duty to maximize shareholder value.

  219. 219.

    d58826

    @Dave: I grew up in an overwhelming Catholic neighborhood. Largest family was 3 kids. Either they were doing something the Church still doesn’t approves of or Dad was taking lots of cold showers. AND this was the late 40’s early 50’s.

  220. 220.

    Feathers

    Higher education has become feminized. Sixty percent of the degrees earned by white people go to women. When something becomes associated with women, it becomes hated and devalued. Yes, the racism is real and undeniable, but in many ways racism is also an easier discussion for the media to have.

  221. 221.

    NorthLeft12

    @OzarkHillbilly: Retired Catholic here. During the “Return to Church” campaign a few years ago, I had a back and forth via email regarding why I no longer supported the Catholic Church. The child abuse cover ups [not the actual incidents] was one of my reasons. I received a bunch of mealy mouthed verbiage that attempted to blow that off.
    BTW my primary reasons for retiring were; anti-LGBTQ stance, anti-abortion/reproductive control policies, and lack of leadership on anti-war and anti-poverty issues. When I left the Church, it was very hostile to progressives and completely owned by the conservatives.

  225. 225.

    germy

    If this is who we are or who we are becoming, I have wasted 40 years of my life. Until now it was not possible for me to conceive of an American President capable of such an outrageous assault on truth, a free press or the first amendment.— Gen Michael Hayden (@GenMhayden) November 26, 2017

  226. 226.

    Brachiator

    @Immanentize:

    Also some ministers who pretend that their college and divinity degrees don’t count as higher education.

    You are of course referring to the ones who insist on being called, “Doctor.”

    Yep.

    Funny, this got me thinking about that crazy TV preacher, Dr Gene Scott, I think. Yep. I watched him once, got fascinated with this crazy quilt of stuff he had up on a blackboard. But he made a reference to the wording in some ancient text that was cognate to Aramaic (not ancient Hebrew), to make a point that a quotation attributed to Jesus may have actually referenced Jewish scripture from that era. I realized that this crazy son of a bitch actually had some background in ancient literature from the Middle East. Looked him up in the Wiki:

    He went on to complete a Ph.D. in Philosophies of Education at Stanford University in 1957; his Doctoral Dissertation dealt with the theology of Reinhold Niebuhr.

    Not the usual track for a tv evangelist.

  227. 227.

    Elizabelle

    It’s not behind a paywall. The NY Times takes it on the chin over yesterday’s story on Nazis and the pasta they buy.

    Readers Accuse Us of Normalizing a Nazi Sympathizer; We Respond. Response by an editor, Marc Lacey.

    Sort this one by “Reader’s Picks” and you will notice that NY Times readers are consistently way smarter than NY Times writers and editors. And I swear top commenter # 2, Michael from Oregon, is a Balloon Juice person. Or with us in jackal spirit, for sure.

    HIS COMMENT: Michael W. Salem, OR 21 hours ago
    You somehow missed the single tweet that says more about your editorial approach than anything else: Sean McElwee’s side-by-side comparison of your article about Mr. Hovater against your profile of unarmed shooting victim Michael Brown. This isn’t about one article. It’s about an approach to delivering news that centers a small subset of supposedly ‘economically anxious’ people against the millions more who legitimately fear we’ve reached a point of no return.

    The other day one of your star editorial writers let her brother (!) casually drop an imaginary nuclear bomb on a west coast city. Your White House correspondents appear to approach their jobs as ‘stenography with a smirk.’ Again and again, you follow up with Trump voters as if theirs are the only votes that matter.

    Our grandfathers didn’t ship off to war in the 1940s to fight Nazis, only to have the New York Times follow Nazis around at the grocery store. Nobody out here cares what TV shows they like, what brand of tortillas they buy. Bess Kalb got it exactly right. They’re Nazis. There aren’t two sides to everything.

    1190 likes on that comment. Also:

    Steve Asheville 21 hours ago
    When I make a mistake, personally or professionally, I own it, do whatever might be necessary to put things right, learn whatever I can from the experience, and then move on. I wish that just once The NY Times would do the same. This article was a significant mistake, as was much of the false equivalence coverage of the presidential race last year. In overwhelming numbers your readers recognize this. We also recognize the damage this aberrant coverage does to the national discourse and to the fabric of democracy. It’s time the Times recognizesd this, too.

  228. 228.

    germy

    There may be said to be two classes of people in the world; those who constantly divide the people of the world into two classes, and those who do not. Both classes are extremely unpleasant to meet socially, leaving practically no one in the world whom one cares very much to know.

    – Robert Benchley

  229. 229.

    japa21

    @Immanentize: Similar to my experience, except it is my wife who was Catholic. This was in 1974. I did convert in the 80’s. No real problem with getting married in the Catholic church. Yes, we were asked the question but it was more or less a wink-wink, nod-nod type of situation. A lot depends on the parish and the priest who handles everything.

    A real problem occurs when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic outside of a church ceremony. That marriage is not recognized and any children from that marriage are considered illegitimate. That has gotten me into a few arguments with priests. It is personal with me as my son is in that situation. It was one of the reasons he left the church.

  230. 230.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Elizabelle: The NYT has a history of this. They have never adequately apologized for Walter Duranty’s denial of Stalin’s crimes against humanity either.

  231. 231.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    If this is who we are or who we are becoming, I have wasted 40 years of my life. Until now it was not possible for me to conceive of an American President capable of such an outrageous assault on truth, a free press or the first amendment.— Gen Michael Hayden (@GenMhayden)

    Apparently, today real ‘Murricans only care about the 2nd Amendment. Bang. Bang. Shoot. Shoot.

  234. 234.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @d58826: When my sisters each had their first period, the first thing my mother did was not go out and get them tampons etc, it was getting them birth control.

    @NorthLeft12: I left the church when I was 14. I’d quite simply had all the religion beaten out of me.

  235. 235.

    Another Scott

    @tobie: I agree that “5%” is the traditional full-employment number, but I believe we have evidence that that number is far too high these days. It was probably too high back in the 1970s as well (e.g. there’s a strong case to be made that the Fed ramping up interest rates and strangling the economy in the ’70s was an over-reaction to one-time oil price shocks (the price stepping up to a new baseline rather than increasing exponentially for years on end).

    My main point was to remind us that “full-employment” is often argued to be some magical state when any additional drop in the unemployment rate will lead to uncontrolled accelerating inflation. The weakness of unions, the increased percentages of people working part-time, the high levels of “long-term” unemployed, etc., etc., all argue that those pictures constructed in the 1960s and 1970s do not apply any more.

    When the labor market is healthy, people are willing to quit their jobs and move and seek out new opportunities because the rewards justify the risk. When I was in EE grad school in the 1980s, we were constantly hearing stories of people changing jobs every 2-3 years and getting substantial raises in the process. Even with 4.1% unemployment, I see no signs that that is the case now – quits are still at relatively low levels.

    It seems likely that Donnie’s Fed is going to start raising rates much more rapidly than Janet did, so we’ll be unlikely to test the 2.5% level. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  236. 236.

    Brachiator

    A bit of an OT. A couple of people were talking about the Instant Pot in an earlier thread. Apparently, Amazon has a Cyber Monday deal

    Amazon’s run several Instant Pot discounts over Deals Week, but they held back the best one for last: The Instant Pot Plus, now down to an all-time low $75, and only $7 more than the all-time low for the standard DUO60.

    “Plus” doesn’t refer to the size of the device—it’s the same six quarts as the DUO60—but rather its capabilities. In addition to everything you get in the DUO60, the Plus adds Cake, Egg, and Sterilize cooking modes, an improved LCD display, and the ability to make quick cooking adjustments while the device is in use.

    Instant Pot DUO Plus 6 Qt 9-in-1 Multi- Use Programmable…

    And now back to our regularly scheduled commenting….

  237. 237.

    different-church-lady

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I left the church when I was 14. I’d quite simply had all the religion beaten out of me.

    They explained the concept of Confirmation to me, and I was like, “Wait, you mean I’ve got a say in this?”

  238. 238.

    Patricia Kayden

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    But an astonishing thing happened to the Poplawski case when it was picked up and reported on by the mainstream media: most of the information relating to his white-supremacist background and motives vanished.

    And now we have the NYT fluffing up White Supremacists. Progress!!

  240. 240.

    Brachiator

    OK, why I am now happy that Prince Harry Meghan Markle are getting married. From Jezebel:

    A few things, here. First of all, the Obamas are definitely going to attend, as will Serena Williams. The Guardian says that Donald Trump probably won’t. Also Meghan publicly called him “misogynistic” when he was still a presidential candidate, so any state visit is really shaping up to be a true circus of awkwardness.

  241. 241.

    NorthLeft12

    @Elizabelle: That whole article was on a par with the “but Hitler loved dogs” stories I remember being passed around since forever.
    There are certain minimum standards of human behavior that need to be met if you want to be considered to be a good or even passable human being. Which TV shows you watch, the neighbourhood you live in, your culinary preferences, and other similar lifestyle choices are not included in those key standards.
    Hating or mistreating other people for their religion, race, gender, sexual preference, etc. and how you treat animals [pets or otherwise] are on that list FYI NYT. And in my opinion, you need a passing grade on ALL the minimum standards to pass, not just a few.

  242. 242.

    The Moar You Know

    Something has gone wrong with white people. I’d guess it’s the loss of privilege and racism, but when I look at the lowered age at death and the opioid epidemic, I don’t know.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Agreed. Something has gone terribly wrong. From where I’m sitting, I see no loss of white privilege. I see racism, but nothing that wasn’t always there. So I don’t think it’s those two things. But I’m seeing opioids everywhere, I’m seeing a majority of families, perhaps better called “child raising arrangements that meet minimum requirements so no one goes to jail” that aren’t worthy of the name, and a lot of folks dying earlier, in quite a few cases before their Boomer parents. Something has gone seriously to shit, and I’m not talking about politics at all. What I can see is that whatever this is, it’s completely self-inflicted, has quite a bit to do with the rise of the Internet and even more with mobile phones as social connectors and arbiters.

    Personally, self-inflicted problems are the ones for which I have the least sympathy, and many days I find it hard not to cheer bad news because a lot of the “victims” really deserve what they got, but the fallout from the coming societal collapse will land on everyone’s doorstep, including mine. And I’d rather it didn’t.

  243. 243.

    Immanentize

    @japa21: well, Japa, this also happened to me! My father, a (first gen) Czech Catholic married my mother, a generations upon generations American Methodist, in a Methodist Church. Three kids and a couple years later, she converted to Catholicism. Soon after, she got a brain tumor and before her operation, she and my Dad were married (again) in the Catholic Hospital Chapel by a Catholic priest in part to un-basterdize us.

    I got to go to my biological parent’s wedding! And I am straight with the Church — but not of it.

  244. 244.

    NorthLeft12

    @OzarkHillbilly: It took me a lot longer, although there had been a very high level of tension for most of the previous twenty plus years. In some ways I still miss the community and support, and the peace I would sometimes find in Mass, but the increased exclusion of various groups of people by and from the Church was too much for me.

  247. 247.

    The Moar You Know

    The sad thing is that both groups are now disaffected – the stay-behinds as the “good jobs” that required not much more than a strong back have vanished, never to return, & the emigrants as they find their own (& their children’s) job prospects shrinking at the same time that the field of competition is (so they believe) being tilted away from them (in fact, being leveled so that they no longer start in a privileged position – “to the privileged, equality feels like oppression”). As a result both groups are easy pickin’s for Herrenvolkisch resentment & the scoundrels who use it to divide & despoil.

    @Uncle Cosmo: Hitler’s base were largely not the blue collar workers (the Commies had them sewn up pretty good) but the pissed-off and neglected low-level management/white collar workers. The ones who’d done everything right and gone to college and were going to be the big boss someday…and found themselves picking cigarette butts out of the gutter alongside the guys who’d fixed their plumbing.

    Those folks were ready to murder to get their status back. And they may not have done the actual killing, but they sure as shit were OK with it.

    Sound familiar?

  248. 248.

    MCA1

    @Elizabelle: Can’t disagree. Our oldest is now 13, so we’ve started thinking about several years from now when she leaves the nest. I find myself not at all opposed to encouraging her to look at McGill or Univ. of Toronto, and hoping she meets a nice Canadian boy and stays up there. Hell, I’d send her Europe for a university experience, despite the fact we’d only get to see her a couple times a year. Same for our boys, who are further away from that step.

    It is shocking to me that in less than 12 months the idea of emigrating from this country, or thinking maybe my children should consider it, has gone from utterly unthinkable to sounding like a decent idea for my gene pool. Never ever would have crossed my mind before this year, but now this place feels like a Broadway production that’s about to shut down.

  249. 249.

    NorthLeft12

    @The Moar You Know: For me it is the increased level of greed, selfishness, and materialism that appears to be the defining characteristics of the white tribe. I am not trying to romanticize minorities, but in my experience white people’s focus on what their possessions cost and how much money they make is how many of them [majority] define success and happiness.
    They seem to view social programs that they cannot take advantage of, to be unfair and wasteful. But these same people if they have a special needs child or close relative, will expect and demand support from the government and not bat an eye at the hypocrisy.

  251. 251.

    The Moar You Know

    For me it is the increased level of greed, selfishness, and materialism that appears to be the defining characteristics of the white tribe. I am not trying to romanticize minorities, but in my experience white people’s focus on what their possessions cost and how much money they make is how many of them [majority] define success and happiness.
    They seem to view social programs that they cannot take advantage of, to be unfair and wasteful. But these same people if they have a special needs child or close relative, will expect and demand support from the government and not bat an eye at the hypocrisy.

    @NorthLeft12: Again, white hypocrisy regarding government services and material values are issues, but they are issues I’ve seen my entire life. Something new has changed, within the last 20 years. And in addition to fucking up elections, birthing unmanageable kids, and driving us all into a economic toilet, it’s shortening our lifespans greatly.

  252. 252.

    Origuy

    @Barbara: Henry VIII had one acknowledged illegitimate son, Henry FitzRoy, Duke of Richmond. He died when he was 18 or so, so the male bloodline may have had some issues. I wonder if Catherine’s many miscarriages could be due partly to her piety. Fasting and wearing hairshirts can’t be healthy.

    I’m supposedly descended from Henry’s great-uncle Jasper Tudor, but through an illegitimate daughter. Unlikely that I have any actual Tudor chromosomes.

  253. 253.

    Ken

    @Origuy:

    I’m supposedly descended from Henry’s great-uncle Jasper Tudor, but through an illegitimate daughter.

    So if just 18,328,457 people die, you take the throne?

  255. 255.

    Citizen Alan

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I occasionally feel bad about how little I care about the opoid epidemic among rural white communities. I suspect this is because I remember back when we had a crack cocaine epidemic in the inner cities, and the public response was mandatory minimum sentences and 3-strikes laws.

  258. 258.

    Barbara

    @Origuy: It is striking that he had two healthy daughters. Catherine had many miscarriages but she also had multiple live births, which suggests she was not Rh negative. It does seem mysterious because Henry himself was very healthy, as were his two adult sisters. But his only brother was not. If a trait were recessive for females but dominant for males, then Henry himself would have been sick, but was not. If it were recessive in all cases then one would think that with multiple partners, at least one of them would be free of the trait. I suspect that he was just extraordinarily unlucky, in the combination of high infant and childhood mortality, and at least one Rh- partner. Regarding hair shirts and harsh religious practice, nah, it doesn’t matter. As a fertility doctor explained to me once about the idea that women might be at fault for their fertility issues — it’s unbelievable what adverse circumstances can result in pregnancy. If Catherine abused herself to the point of malnutrition, she would be unlikely to have become pregnant. Miscarriages are almost always the result of something else.

  260. 260.

    Barbara

    @GregB:

    The Saudis will rue the day they take their fight directly to Iran.

    I am pretty sure their plan is for us to do their dirty work. To which I respond: when Saudi Arabia has undertaken the same commitment to self-defense among its people that Israel has, including conscripting the female half of its population, when it is invaded by a foreign enemy, then let’s have a discussion. No promises, just a discussion. Since that day seems a long way off, my position is, not one U.S. citizen should be put in harm’s way on foreign soil just to protect Saudi interests.

  264. 264.

    Brachiator

    @Calouste:

    Foreign heads of state are typically not invited to a royal wedding, unless they are royals themselves.

    Still, if the Obamas got invites (which may not actually be true), Trump would be miffed anyhow. Donnie don’t know no protocol.

  266. 266.

    Ruckus

    @Elizabelle:

    But they are strip mining our economy, destroying public institutions and confidence, and have no respect for the common goods.

    A very good analogy.
    They are strip mining everything. The economy, the government, the citizens, the……… But that’s OK they won’t be here to see it all fail. Look at the ages of the leaders of the destruction. Other than a few malcontents who would have nothing in life if they couldn’t steal it, and aren’t smart enough to get away with that, they are all rich aged geezers. Life has only piled on level three excess on them, they want it all, they want to get to level 20 excess.

  267. 267.

    Gravenstone

    @Brachiator: Oh sure, the day after I ordered an Instant Pot Smart …

    I inherited my timing in terms of reliably missing sales from my mother.

  268. 268.

    Stan

    @TS:

    What a difference a couple of generations make. A King of England had to abdicate to marry an American divorcee 80 years ago, with his family disowning him. Now divorce, and marrying divorcees is as common in the British Royal family as it is everywhere else.

    Yes, and back then, the king of England was a nazi sympathizer. Now WE have the nazi sympathizer.

  269. 269.

    Amir Khalid

    @SgrAstar:
    In those days there was of course no secular law in England, and per the Catholic Church marriage ended only upon the death of a spouse. But as a king, Henry Vee Eye Eye Eye had the option of trumping up capital charges against a consort who had failed to give him a son. So divorce via the executioner’s axe worked well for him.

  270. 270.

    TenguPhule

    @Bruce K:

    Is it cynical for me to say that the Republican plan for governance only starts to make sense once you posit that they’re evil?

    Sadly no.

    It makes complete sense once you accept they are complete monsters with no shreds of humanity remaining.

  271. 271.

    Origuy

    @Ken:

    So if just 18,328,457 people die, you take the throne?

    Something like that. My half-Saudi housemate has a better shot at being the King of Saudi Arabia.

  272. 272.

    Brachiator

    @Gravenstone:

    Oh sure, the day after I ordered an Instant Pot Smart …

    But you still get to enjoy it. I don’t know from cooking stuff, but I was looking at some of the detailed reviews at Amazon. Lots of people happy with their pots.

  273. 273.

    Stan

    @tobie:

    Rural America’s chip on shoulder runs so deep. Nothing gets their goat as much as the idea that liberal/coastal elites look down on them. Methinks the imagined slights come from the fact that at some level they know they are second rate.

    Well, first of all, rural folk have felt slighted by urban folk for centuries pretty much all over the world. This is not an American thing.

    Second, for chrissakes, rural people are not second rate. Try working on a farm some time.

  274. 274.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Brachiator: I’d be shocked if the Obamas weren’t invited, as it seems Harry and Michelle Obama are real buds, not to mention the President and the Prince – who watched the hoops together at the most recent Invictus games. I’m not a royals fan, but Captain Wales stole my heart when he recognized and hugged Daphne down under. Plus he’s always been kinda cute. : – )

  275. 275.

    Mnemosyne

    @Amir Khalid:

    Actually, he took steps to annul his marriage to Anne Boleyn prior to his execution, which meant that Elizabeth went from being a princess to a royal bastard in the course of a few days. That was part of what made the succession after Edward VI died so tricky — technically, both Mary and Elizabeth had been declared bastards and should not have been able to inherit the throne, except that Henry named them his successors in his will.

    That was the rationale to try and have Jane Grey declared queen — she was a cousin, but at least she was legitimate (and, more importantly, a Protestant).

  276. 276.

    NorthLeft12

    @Stan@tobie: :

    Methinks the imagined slights come from the fact that at some level they know they are second rate.

    Tobie, you have this completely wrong. The rural folks I know resent being treated like they are second rate [doesn’t everybody?], especially because they know they are “better” than the urban folks.
    It is not a mean kind of superiority, it is just their perspective on what urban life is versus rural life and how their life is so much better than those that live in the city or suburbs.

  277. 277.

    Barbara

    @NorthLeft12: There are no “second rate” people. The notion of competitive advantage has to do mostly with skills. Some people are just really lucky to have the skills that society deems valuable and others work hard to cultivate those skills. What happens when skills you prize and have come by either naturally or with a fair amount of effort no longer confer economic advantage? Obviously, there is a wide range of ability to adapt and it is unreasonable to think that all people are going to be able to retrain ad infinitum. But believing you should not have to adapt is a different kind of problem — the kind of problem that breeds resentment at a world that is passing you by.

  278. 278.

    Barbara

    @The Moar You Know: My mother has less and less sympathy for people using opioids. She lives in a hot zone and she finds seemingly intractable addicts infuriating. She is liberal, has noted how differently African Americans were treated when they were the ones considered to be addicts, but mostly, she does not understand addiction and resents the unlimited claim on public resources (Narcan is getting more and more expensive) for people who seem totally uninterested in any kind of treatment.

  279. 279.

    J R in WV

    @Sloane Ranger:

    I’m sure it wasn’t directed at me, Sloane… I’m much to sweet for anyone here to get told to Fuq right off!

    Well, honestly, late at night, after a couple drinks, maybe I would do that. Now I can just Pie them, though honestly, ranting and cursing first would make Pieing someone who pissed me off more fun.

    Take care!!

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