Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

ha ha ha! Nice try weird people.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Democrats have delivered the Square Deal, the New Deal, the Fair Deal, and now… the Big Joe Biden Deal.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Let me file that under fuck it.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

The lights are all blinking red.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

You are here: Home / Politics / Goddamned Traitors / Treason’s Greetings!

Treason’s Greetings!

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Prepare to tap the strategic popcorn reserves and open the sluice gates at the champagne reservoir, friends! Via valued commenter Yarrow in the thread downstairs, this video clip is the most tick-tockiest of motherfuckers:

In case you can’t listen, a hastily transcribed excerpt:

“He [Flynn] has promised full cooperation to the Mueller team. He is prepared to testify, according to a confidant, against President Trump, against members of the Trump family and against others in the White House. He is prepared to testify that President Trump, as a candidate, Donald Trump, ordered him and directed him to make contacts with the Russians, which contradicts all that Donald Trump has said at this point.

“Flynn made the decision to cooperate only in the last 24 hours; he is distraught about the decision but feels he’s doing the right thing for his country. He as facing huge legal bills of more than a million dollars and that finally, he had to do this for that reason. He expects to put his house on the market; he is facing serious financial problems.”

Anchors on the cable networks are openly speculating about “the survival of the Trump presidency.” Too soon to count chickens. Call your senators about the goddamned tax bill.

But stop and savor this today, dear jackals, wherever you are. We’ve been on a steady diet of shit sandwiches for more than a year now. Popcorn and champers all around.

Reader Interactions

320Comments

  2. 2.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    Treason, Traitors ALL the way down. Any pedant who wants to say no to this can go FUCK themselves too.

  4. 4.

    Nicole

    Oh, he’s going to have to put his house on the market? Wah wah wah. People are going to die from illnesses they couldn’t afford to get treated, thanks to the tax bill. Ugh.

  6. 6.

    Yarrow

    Also, McConnell says they have the votes and Flake caved.

    !!! @JeffFlake is a yes on tax bill, secured deal to work on “growth-oriented legislative solution to enact fair and permanent protections for DACA recipients” as part of it (!)— Seung Min Kim (@seungminkim) December 1, 2017

  8. 8.

    rk

    Remember that McConell and Ryan knew all this. They were told before Obama left office and did nothing. I don’t remember where I read this that someone from the CIA said “he will die in prison”. Which seems now to be true if justice is served. But every republican should now be asked , when did they know that Trump was a traitor?

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    Via TPM, here’s one of Trump’s mouthpieces reacting:

    “Today, Michael Flynn, a former National Security Advisor at the White House for 25 days during the Trump Administration, and a former Obama administration official, entered a guilty plea to a single count of making a false statement to the FBI.

    Obama, in case anyone here needs reminding, fired Flynn basically for being a whackaloon.

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    If only someone had predicted that big news was going to drop between Thanksgiving and Christmas …?

    (OK OK actually I said “a bundle of indictments/charges” not big news but still)

  13. 13.

    Yarrow

    @Nicole: Flynn isn’t the only one who’s going to have money trouble. Trump and his entire family will be spending all their money in legal fees. Also, hard to pay your lawyers when your assets are frozen. Tick tock, motherfuckers!

  15. 15.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    Here are the three words Democrats should use whenever they talk about any issue. Treason, Traitor, Pedophile.

  19. 19.

    jonas

    @dmsilev:

    Today, Michael Flynn, a former National Security Advisor at the White House for 25 days during the Trump Administration, and a former Obama administration official, entered a guilty plea to a single count of making a false statement to the FBI.

    Ha ha! You can see the flopsweat on that lede. Being allowed to plead guilty to a single (and, one might add, pretty serious) charge = Flynn sang for Mueller like the Queen of the Night.

  22. 22.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Brian Ross seems to be the only one reporting so far that Flynn has given up Trump. The statements from Mueller (?) say Flynn was instructed by a high campaign/administration official. (I’m reading a lot very fast and not sure I have this word-for-word.)

    What the lawyers say (IANAL) is that Flynn gets a deal ONLY if he gives up someone bigger. That would seem to be Pence or Trump, although it could also be Jared, who Mueller hopes to flip on Trump.

    Just saying that this is very good news, but we need to be a little careful about jumping to conclusions. Ross has gotten big stuff wrong before.

  23. 23.

    TenguPhule

    =@Major Major Major Major:

    I heard on the radio just now that the White House spin is that Flynn wasn’t really closely involved with the campaign.

    This is why they’ve been building that incompetence defense all this time.

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    The President, the Vice President, Kushner – who has been publicly outed as providing material on Flynn to Mueller in separate reporting, AG Sessions are all in very serious jeopardy given Flynn’s agreement to cooperate. But it goes beyond that. Kushner agreed to meet with Mueller’s team and answer questions about Flynn. This is separate from whatever jeopardy Kushner might have from the rest of Mueller’s inquiries. So who else did Kushner agree to talk about? The President? The VP? AG Sessions? Bannon? The Mercers? Nunes?

    What this morning’s announcements and revelations indicate is that none of these people can trust each other. Flynn is now cooperating fully. Kushner provided information on Flynn. This is going to quickly move those in jeopardy to panic as no one is going to be able to be sure the others hasn’t already ratted them out or is preparing to do so to try to save themselves.

    One final item: a great deal of what Flynn was accused of doing, including what he agreed to cop to in his plea deal this morning, took place in Trump Tower as part of the transition activities in NY. Part of the pressure that Mueller is able to bring against these folks is that because they refused to do anything according to custom, including setting up a proper transition office and process in DC so they could properly coordinate with the outgoing administration, they did a large amount of transition activities in NY. Because that’s where the President-elect was. So Mueller is able to make it very clear that even if the President were to pardon any of these folks for whatever Federal charges he may bring and convictions he might get, AG Schneiderman can go after them and the President can’t do a damn thing about it. Moreover, it was reported this week that the Attorney General for the District of Columbia and the Attorney General for Maryland were each granted jurisdiction to look into state level issues pertaining to some of these folks. This did not happen by accident. And it provides Mueller with additional leverage.

  25. 25.

    Nicole

    @Yarrow: If the Trumps and the Kushners live out the old adage “from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations” it will be a teeny, tiny bit of justice. I’m so angry about this tax bill I can hardly see straight. I’m not exactly rolling in dough, but I’ve reached the point where I’m sending money to some relatives every month, because they, after working jobs that came with pension, their whole lives, can no longer make ends meet, due in no small part to the state and local taxes (hi, property tax!) that went up as the Federal government saw fit to give more and more to wealthy people. I really hate everything these days.

  26. 26.

    jonas

    People who were pointing to Trump’s increasingly unhinged, demagogic tweeting over the past week and suggested that he knew this was coming down the pike were on to something. Flynn’s going to shiv Trump good and its not going to be pretty.

  27. 27.

    Yarrow

    Sounds like they may not yet have the votes.

    Tim Scott says the details of the tax bill are “still fluid.” Asked if Collins is in board, makes a “who knows?” face.— Alice Ollstein (@AliceOllstein) December 1, 2017

    Collins confirms she got her SALT amendment but says she still has concerns. McConnell walks by minutes later and says “we have the votes.”— Alice Ollstein (@AliceOllstein) December 1, 2017

    Maybe Collins is just holding out to get more stuff she wants.

  28. 28.

    Stan

    Here are the three words Democrats should use whenever they talk about any issue. Treason, Traitor, Pedophile.

    A Traitor, a Pedophile, and a person guilty of Treason walk into a bar…bartender says, “we have a quorum!”

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    Prepare to tap the strategic popcorn reserves and open the sluice gates at the champagne reservoir, friends!

    Not to be a downer, but, this premature celebra ……

    Fuck, can’t do it. Hopefully there will be much more to come, but in the meantime … Snoopy Dance of Joy!!

    Tick muthafucking Tock!

  33. 33.

    tobie

    Pence may well be indicted. If he casts the deciding vote on this tax bill, it will prove that it’s a criminal enterprise. I see no difference between the mafia and today’s GOP–well, one difference: the mafia was more likely competent in their trade.

  34. 34.

    TenguPhule

    @Stan:

    A Traitor, a Pedophile, and a person guilty of Treason walk into a bar…bartender says, “we have a quorum!” “Get out of here, Mr. Trump.”

    FTFY.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rk: That was former NSA technical director for counterintelligence John Schindler who made/passed on the “die in prison” comment.

  41. 41.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This is going to quickly move those in jeopardy to panic as no one is going to be able to be sure the others hasn’t already ratted them out or is preparing to do so to try to save themselves.

    Too bad, so sad.

  43. 43.

    gvg

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, Is there any deal Trump could make to reduce his charges? I am thinking that there is nothing that he could offer that would get no charges or jail time. the others can offer deals for lighter sentances for themselves or family If they have enough proof? Also it mostly would have to be on Trump or maybe Sessions as he also HAS to be removed.

    I wonder if Trump will finally realize his lawyers are feeding him nice lies?

  45. 45.

    bluehill

    I’m particularly interested in Kushner. I’m sure he’s thinking through the potential outcomes. Wouldn’t surprise me if he decides to relocate to some country with favorable extradition agreements. I don’t think he would do well in prison.

  49. 49.

    Spider-Dan

    “No, Really, I’m Actually A Billionaire, Believe Me” Donald Trump is ultimately undone because the man he directed to collude with Russia on his behalf couldn’t cope with a measly million-dollar legal bill. I thought Trump was supposed to have that kind of money between his couch cushions?

  50. 50.

    Yarrow

    @MattF: He can’t fire Mueller. Only Sessions can so he’ll have to fire Sessions first and then Rosenstein (next in line). If Sessions was going to fire Mueller he would have already. He hasn’t, so that tells you there’s a reason for that. Sessions is guilty as hell and probably knows (or has been told) that firing Mueller would makes things worse for himself.

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Major Major Major Major: He brought coffee and some crappy ass bran muffins to a meeting. Couldn’t pic him out in a picture. Don’t think we ever spent much time together. Rarely had any access to the President. Wasn’t even at the convention…//

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jonas: Actually he’s going to. They’ve suspended sentencing for 30 days according to Congressman Schiff. This gives Mueller time to see what Flynn will give him and determine if it is worth it. If it isn’t, today’s plea agreement will be vacated and Mueller will bury him and his son.

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The statements from Mueller (?) say Flynn was instructed by a high campaign/administration official.

    Reminds me a bit of Loretta Lynch referring to Malaysian Official One in the 1MDB case. Everyone here knew exactly whom she meant, and Official One is now Najib’s nickname.

  60. 60.

    MattF

    @Yarrow: OK, but Trump has wreaked havoc on several Federal departments– so why not Justice? I don’t believe that Trump has the option of just standing by as his whole inner circle is indicted.

  65. 65.

    Villago Delenda Est

    There are only two people higher in the chain than Flynn.

    Dense and the Dotard.

    They are fucked.

  66. 66.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman:

    They’ve suspended sentencing for 30 days according to Congressman Schiff. This gives Mueller time to see what Flynn will give him and determine if it is worth it. If it isn’t, today’s plea agreement will be vacated and Mueller will bury him and his son.

    From commenter Immanentize in the previous thread:

    Cooperating is not just an agreement to tell the prosecutor what you know, it is a very finely crafted and documented proffer that the defendant has to give to the prosecutor before any deal will happen. It is testimony, really. It is also the agreement that you will continue to cooperate if you learn or remember anything new, that you will testify where and when asked, and that if your profer turns out to be untrue — even sometimes in the smallest of details, the deal is off. There is no one more vengeful than a prosecutor whose cooperating witness burns them.

  67. 67.

    SFAW

    I imagine this has been explained ad nauseam before, but what laws would have been broken by Shitgibbon if he in fact did tell Flynn to contact the Russians?

  68. 68.

    MisterForkbeard

    For most normal parties, the news that your party’s president (and probably VP) colluded with the Russians and that you were warned about it and shut down preventative action might constitute a reason to delay your rushed vote to destroy the entire tax system in order to give rich oligarchs more money… Especially since said Republican President will also benefit enormously from that tax change.

  71. 71.

    The Dangerman

    Call your senators about the goddamned tax bill.

    Flynn flipping faster tracks the tax bill. Bastardizing the shows lyrics a bit:

    They call him Flipper, Flipper, pass that bill faster than lightning,

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: My guess is he has notes. I’ve never met an Army intel bubba or bubbette that doesn’t have their notebook with them at all times and isn’t taking copious notes it in every meeting.

  74. 74.

    BlueDWarrior

    I don’t doubt that McConnell will pass something out of the Senate today, just because the Moon falls on their world if he doesn’t, especially how he’s built this up.

    But the conference committie is going to be a completely snarled mess; and if for some reason Ryan decides to just jam the Senate bill through, I can imagine the Freedumb Caucus screaming and howling into the night.

    I would wager that while Pelosi and Schumer are hoping a couple of Republicans find some sanity, they are cleaning the rifles and sharpening the bayonets for next year regardless. This passing gives them even more ammunition and more points to shoot at.

    Yes it’s ice-cold comfort but this die was cast when Trump won his election – never ever trust a Republican, especially a modern one, to do the right thing long term.

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    @MattF: Oh, sure. He can do that. He can fire Sessions and then Rosenstein and however many more people it takes to get to someone who is willing to fire Mueller. Given today’s news, I don’t think that’s going to go over very well, though. It’s also bad for him legally. Get rid of the guy investigating him. He’s done that once already and look where we are. it’ll just put him in more jeopardy. And the indictments are sealed and ready to go. At this point firing Mueller won’t help him.

  77. 77.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep: The official statement is that he was an Obama Official and was only in the Trump white house for 25 days. Remember folks, this is really all about Obama.

  78. 78.

    Archon

    This ends in impeachment/resignation or blood on the streets, at this point there is no 3rd option.

  79. 79.

    Amir Khalid

    @Yarrow:
    Sessions recused himself from the case and can’t fire Mueller. As long as Rosenstein is in the job, only he can fire Mueller, and he properly refuses to do it without cause.

  80. 80.

    TenguPhule

    @SFAW: Accepting aid from foreign countries in a presidential campaign is illegal.

    Also possibly bribery, corruption, espionage, high treason.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    @gvg: I’m not a lawyer, but I doubt it. Everyone farther up the food chain from the President are going to be people like Putin, who have diplomatic immunity or are his intel guys, oligarchs, and/or organized crime heads (a lot of overlap in those three groups) able to get to safety in places that won’t extradite them. So giving the Russians up won’t do him much good.

  86. 86.

    ? Martin

    Trump is cooked. Republican senators revealing that Trump pressured them to drop the probe is their way of leaving breadcrumbs for Mueller to follow. The moment the tax bill passes, the floodgates will open – they’ll have gotten everything of value out of Trump that he has left.

  88. 88.

    Yarrow

    @Hungry Joe: Tick tock, motherfuckers! That’s especially for the Trump treason family, who I can’t wait to watch do their perp walks. It’s also for the Trump administration folks who are involved in this or knew about it, and that’s most of them, and the top Republican leadership.

  90. 90.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    He may be saying he has the votes as a ploy to get holdouts to cave, thereby securing the votes he doesn’t really have.

    I’d say call every elected official you have from mayor/dog catcher on up and demand that they come out against this abomination of a bill or their job is very, very much in jeopardy next election. When they say they have nothing to do with this vote, tell them they can call and demand, just like you are. Pressure from all sides can’t hurt.

  91. 91.

    NotMax

    Flynn? Flynn? Doesn’t ring a bell.

    Oh yeah, wasn’t he that unemployed guy someone brought in to stoke the coal for the samovars at campaign HQ? Also made Turkish coffee.

    Barely ever had two words with him.

    /Dolt 45 frantic tap dance

  101. 101.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Amir Khalid: I know! Which makes this even more ridiculous. It’s literally just a shout-out to the base and an attempt to get the media to say “Well, it’s TRUE that Flynn did work for Obama”, etc.

    And it’ll work to some extent. Our press corps is awful, and most republicans will hear what they want to hear.

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jayboat: You’re welcome. If you’re looking for a good overview on all this meshugas, I highly recommend the timeline Cheryl put together at her primary site Nuclear Diner. And Moyers and Company have an interactive timeline on their website that is very exhaustive information wise.

  104. 104.

    The Moar You Know

    This ends in impeachment/resignation or blood on the streets, at this point there is no 3rd option.

    @Archon: Please. A GOP controlled Congress is not going to impeach Trump, no matter what, and Democrats don’t do violence.

    I expect, after the tax bill passes, Trump will find he has no friends in Washington or anywhere else, and will keep throwing his dumb campaign rallies for the next few years until 2020 as that’s all he will be able to do, when he loses to a Dem or any other Republican. And there will be plenty of primary challengers.

  105. 105.

    Ruckus

    @Spider-Dan:
    Even if he did have that kind of money between his couch cushions, which I seriously doubt, his entire life after all is built on layer after layer of bullshit, he wouldn’t give it to anyone else. Anyone Else. Everything is about him. He is about the most insecure narcissist to roam the planet, and that’s saying a lot given most of the other super rich assholes on this rock.

  106. 106.

    bluehill

    @Archon: Ride or die. Repubs burned their boats. They condoned “small” indiscretions, wrongs, illegalities, unconstitutional actions for so long that it’s easier to accept bigger ones now.

  108. 108.

    MoxieM

    Has to put his house on the market? facing “serious” financial problems?

    … oohh, poor bubbie baby. I thought treason paid big bux? What happened to all that delicious Turkish cash? What’d he do, smoke it? Hookers & blow?

  110. 110.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MattF: If you look at how Mueller has proceeded, a lot of what he’s doing could also be charged in NY, DC, and/or Maryland by the State AGs in NY and Maryland and the DC AG. This is not an accident. It is done to put pressure on the people he’s trying to get to cooperate, that if they don’t because they think they’re going to get a pardon or because they think the President will fire Mueller, they are still going to face a lot of legal jeopardy in NY, MD, and/or DC. This also puts pressure on the President’s internal to the White House and external attorneys to try to keep him from doing anything rash and stupid because firing Mueller or pardoning any of these folks prematurely will simply be used against him in NY, DC, and/or MD.

  111. 111.

    Yarrow

    @MisterForkbeard: The press is awful but they know this story is huge and they’re going to run with it. John King on CNN said Trump’s MO is to say “barely knew him, hardly in our administration” etc. but, and I quote, “that dog won’t hunt.” LOL. Then showed a bunch of clips and photos of Trump with Flynn, including a clip where Martha Raddatz says, “so you’re being vetted as a vice presidential candidate.” Yeah….there’s no place for Trump to hide from this.

  112. 112.

    BlueDWarrior

    Also, while we sit here, we should be starting the ideas within the party on how to do counter-reform of Taxes. I think we should assume something is going to pass out of Congress, and starting in January, I would start talking about what need to claw back and what we need to fix.

    Make Republicans have to defend this bullshit to the public at every waking opportunity. If these are the contours they want to fight on, I say have the fight.

  113. 113.

    TenguPhule

    @The Moar You Know:

    A GOP controlled Congress is not going to impeach Trump, no matter what, and Democrats don’t do violence.

    Its amazing what a man or woman will do when their loved ones are murdered by legislation that takes away their Medicare to give Trump a tax cut.

    If the bill passes, all bets are off. None of the prior rules or assumptions will apply anymore.

  114. 114.

    Spider-Dan

    @Ruckus: That’s what makes it so delicious. He can’t even tell when the expense is greatly in his own interest!

    Hoist by his own petard, as it were.

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    @? Martin:

    The moment the tax bill passes, the floodgates will open – they’ll have gotten everything of value out of Trump that he has left.

    Why do people keep saying stuff like this? Unfortunately, it’s not true.

    The GOP leadership are fused with Trump. Their fates are inexorably linked together. The leadership crossed their political Rubicon when they let Trump enter the Republican primary and became their candidate. There is no going back.

    Now, if the Koch Brothers or Mercer gives a sign, maybe something might happen, a 25th Amendment solution. But that is unlikely.

    If they get this tax abomination bill victory, the next goal post will be federal and Supreme Court justices.

    Also, we don’t know what else Putin wants.

    Trump can be dumped, but don’t look to the GOP to help out with this.

  116. 116.

    MattF

    @Adam L Silverman: I can see that, and I believe Trump is in the position of the various cartoon characters who have run ten feet off the edge of a big cliff but haven’t yet looked down. That said, Trump has an absolutely unlimited capacity for bullshit, bluster, and denial of reality. It’s a very weird and very dangerous situation.

  117. 117.

    Ruckus

    @B.B.A.:
    drumpf hunker down?
    Have you been paying attention in the least? He doesn’t hunker down, he doubles down. He isn’t going to get smarter tomorrow or the day after that. He is going to do what he always does, the wrong thing, even for him.
    That’s the way he works, it’s his motto, “Do The Wrong Thing!”

  118. 118.

    The Dangerman

    @BlueDWarrior:

    …Ryan decides to just jam the Senate bill through…

    I think Ryan will do exactly that; think of Trump as the Titanic (movie version) and Ryan is Cal after the iceberg (never seen the entire movie, so I hope Cal is an asshole through the whole thing). The ships about to hit the (Ayn) Rand for the Republicans. Pass it now or never.

  119. 119.

    bluehill

    Already seeing some tweets from right-leaning people downplaying the news. Markets are stabilizing and have bounced back quite a bit. Will be interesting to see the polling impact as a proxy for how desensitized the public has become.

  120. 120.

    Yarrow

    Flake says he’s a yes, but maybe news like this could change things.

    2/ Flake spokesman @Jason_Samuels tells me that the DACA commitment came directly from @VP Pence. https://t.co/XXc69nz1MS— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) December 1, 2017

    WHAT DID FLAKE GET ON DACA?: WH aide Marc Short tells me he will be part of the conversation. ("Happy to include him".)

    Me: Does that mean any agreement on timing (this year or no), substance?

    Short: No, it is to include him in our talks.
    — Lisa Desjardins (@LisaDNews) December 1, 2017

  123. 123.

    debbie

    Republicans Senators are working hard to pass the biggest Tax Cuts in the history of our Country. The Bill is getting better and better. This is a once in a generation chance. Obstructionist Dems trying to block because they think it is too good and will not be given the credit!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 1, 2017

    Seriously? He’s pimping the delusion that Democrats think the tax cuts/reforms are too good? Someone’s flailing about like a banshee. He tweeted this at 5 in the morning! Old people have to have a good night’s sleep. Or …

  124. 124.

    Kay

    Donald Trump lied about the Russia thing? My stars. There’s a shocker.

    It’s weird with him because with a normal person you could expect some kind of reckoning from the person himself but he lies so much there’s no real point in an investigator interviewing him. His words mean absolutely nothing. Usually you could say “well, they’ll have this testimony and they’ll bring it to him and he’ll have to explain the lie” but he’s so mentally ill we all know what he’ll do- he’ll lie. He’s weirdly irrelevant to the investigation of….him.

  126. 126.

    MisterForkbeard

    @TenguPhule: I think it’s much more likely that Republicans may decide “with heavy hearts and great sadness” to impeach Trump, and then be feted by the press as adults and rational people who put party above country.

    I mean, it’ll all be an obvious lie, but it won’t stop the press from fellating them.

    EDIT: It will also let the press and Republicans attack Democrats for wanting to continue investigating Pence/Ryan/McConnell who were at the very least aware of this all and let it happen. It’ll help shut down the damage. I think it’s the smart play for them – they’ll still get hit badly in 2018, but they have a favorable Senate map then and gerrymandered House seats should protect them somewhat. They’ll recover better in 2020.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    It would be great for the country if Flynn could implicate Sessions.

    We really can’t have a nutjob racist as AG in 2017. It isn’t 1956.

  128. 128.

    Joe Falco

    Is Sean Connery still kicking? I want him to be there when Trump is arrested to proclaim that every toliet in the nation should be referred to as “Trump”. #MenInTights

  129. 129.

    Shalimar

    @Yarrow: They’re looking at a giant plate of shit and arguing over what fruit slice needs to be added on top before we have to eat it.

  130. 130.

    Sloane Ranger

    I just heard the news and whooped with joy! Lock him up, lock him up! (repeat and nauseum).

  133. 133.

    debbie

    @bluehill:

    What time was this announced? I’ve been out all morning and heard nothing. Frankly, I’d hope the market would have dropped, and stayed, lower. But I’m the vindictive sort.

  134. 134.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Yarrow: Pretty sure this is all about getting people to vote yes now in return for concessions that they won’t follow through on later. Especially to people like Flake and Corker who’ll be leaving the Senate, they don’t have to maintain goodwill.

  136. 136.

    The Moar You Know

    Its amazing what a man or woman will do when their loved ones are murdered by legislation that takes away their Medicare to give Trump a tax cut.

    If the bill passes, all bets are off. None of the prior rules or assumptions will apply anymore.

    @TenguPhule: Horseshit. If Dems were as willing to back up their ideals with violence as the Right is, we wouldn’t be in this position right now.

    We are a nation of lazy cowards and that’s not going to change because of this tax bill. Hell, it wouldn’t change if Trump built concentration camps and started for real rounding up liberals tomorrow.

  137. 137.

    TenguPhule

    @MisterForkbeard: I think its too late for that. Trump will turn on them and testify against them. They know this in their bones. He has no loyalty to the party. The GOP are wedded to him for better or worse.

    But this bill as it stands is going to open the floodgates, it hurts everyone not rich.

    And when you harm tens of millions of Americans, it doesn’t take many reacting badly to that to kick off a lot of trouble.

  138. 138.

    Ruckus

    @Spider-Dan:
    He actually could be really wealthy if he could have told over the years what was in his best interest. After all people with more money than the Treasuries of small nations very rarely do anything that is not solely in their own best interest, the rest of the world be damned. He isn’t that smart. Not even close.
    I always wondered what a petard was, I’m assuming that it is, at least in this case, a very, very large pile of bullshit.

  139. 139.

    Shalimar

    @debbie: That actually sounds similar to why Republicans have been trying to kill the ACA for the last 7 years. It actually helps people and they don’t want Democrats to get credit.

  140. 140.

    Tazj

    @? Martin: Yes, and I know so many Republicans who will be thrilled with the tax cuts. They don’t care about anything or anyone else. Trump was not a real Republican they’ll say now.

    I understand there’s a lot for the evangelicals to love in this bill too, so they’ll deny they ever voted for Trump also.

    I want the senate Democrats to do something dramatic before this vote. I don’t know what they can do now, but I want them to do something.

  142. 142.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I have see several stories saying that at the guilty plea a government lawyer said that Flynn had been instructed by a senior person in the Trump campaign to contact Russia.

    That seems to be an flashing neon road sign pointing to Trump, to me anyway.

  143. 143.

    Raoul

    You know whose name I never see in connection with all this? Reince Priebus. It’s like he fell down a memory hole. He was the WH Chief of freakin’ Staff. He was announced on November 13, 2016. He served during Flynn’s indicted moment. There’s photos of Reince in the Oval with Trump and Flynn.

    WTF? He’s involved, but you never, ever hear about him.

  146. 146.

    tobie

    @MisterForkbeard: Who would be so stupid to believe any promise these goons make? Or is it that Flake, Corker, and Collins just don’t care about the things they claim they care about?

  148. 148.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    I got through directly to two of Susan Collins’s seven offices

    In Maine 207-283-1101
    In DC 202-224-2523

    You get an automated operator with the first but if you wait you will get a live human. She sounds like a nice young lady. I politely asked not to vote for a bill that creates a deficit because that will lead to slashing of medicare and social security.

    the DC office you get voice mail and once again you have to wait a while before you get to the beep.

  150. 150.

    Brachiator

    @Yarrow:

    US Russia envoy cancels trip saying Russian officials won’t meet him

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

  151. 151.

    MattF

    @Raoul: One possibility that he’s been in an alcoholic stupor since he was fired. I suspect that prosecutors are wary about that kind of testimony.

  152. 152.

    cckids

    @MisterForkbeard: I think it’s much more likely that Republicans may decide “with heavy hearts and great sadness” to impeach Trump, and then be feted by the press as adults and rational people who put party above country.

    I mean, it’ll all be an obvious lie, but it won’t stop the press from fellating them.

    Yeah, this. It’s why I can’t agree that it would be a good thing if DT strokes out while hate-tweeting. The minute he drops dead, the press will be drawing a gauzy curtain over all his crimes; he’ll just be the bold populist truth-teller of their wet dreams. It isn’t as though most of them are really trying, after all.

  153. 153.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: My understanding from the RUMINT is that the counterintelligence investigation has a lot of SIGINT. And a lot of that is from our allies and partners.

  155. 155.

    low-tech cyclist

    @TenguPhule:

    They persist in believing Republicans have standards.

    That mystifies me too. It’s as if they think Trump is some sort of aberration, in any way besides saying the stuff out loud that the rest of the Republicans just dog-whistle.

  157. 157.

    germy

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on the investigations into Trump campaign associates and Russian election interference (all times local):

    12:30 p.m.

    The White House has cancelled a scheduled opportunity for reporters to question President Donald Trump about former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s guilty plea.

    The public White House schedule had said that reporters would be allowed to document part of Trump’s meeting with Libyan Prime Minister Fayez al-Sarraj.

    During these media events, called “pool sprays,” reporters usually pepper the president with questions. Trump often answers, using opportunity to deliver his message directly to voters.

    Reporters had been lined up outside the Oval Office, waiting to enter the room, when White House staffers marched them back into the press room.

    White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters then told them the media event would not happen.

  159. 159.

    MJS

    I’m probably late to the game on this (of all days to actually have to do work), but I will be calling Toomey to let him know that I will consider a “yes” vote on the tax bill to be doing the bidding of a traitor, i.e., Trump, and therefore, by extension, Toomey will himself be a traitor if he votes yes.

  160. 160.

    TenguPhule

    @Raoul:

    WTF? He’s involved, but you never, ever hear about him.

    Mueller really is good at keeping sources under wraps.

  161. 161.

    JMG

    The tax bill hurts more people than it helps, and the people it helps were Republican voters anyway. I don’t think it’s very good politics, and I also believe that it will lead Republicans to run in 2018 as mini-Trumps and mini-Roy Moores. Bigotry’s all they’ve got to sell.
    PS: If Trump doesn’t fire Mueller by Christmas I’ll be very surprised.

  163. 163.

    Raoul

    @MattF: Who cares about testimony from that weasel. I want a perp walk.
    (Yeah, I know, not really likely. But its almost my birthday, and I want prezzies!)

  164. 164.

    MisterForkbeard

    @tobie:

    Or is it that Flake, Corker, and Collins just don’t care about the things they claim they care about?

    Yes. None of these republican senators care about any of this. For example, if McCain cared about the things he actually says he cared about, he’d shut this down because of the violations of regular order and voting on it before they had a final published text, let alone letting the CBO look at it.

  165. 165.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: If that’s the case, this will get even uglier. Putin’s goal is to destabilize the US in order to weaken it as the global superpower. If he’s decided he has no more use for the President and the people around him, he’ll begin to leak out what he has to further create domestic political chaos in the US.

  167. 167.

    Raoul

    @JMG: Hmm. I’m not seeing how a $25Bn/yr slash to Medicare ‘helps’ seniors, who tend to be Republican. It feels like that impact has been downplayed, and I don’t understand that.

  170. 170.

    MisterForkbeard

    @JMG: Trump COULD fire Mueller and then declare it’s because after all that time and noise, he “only” got Flynn to admit to lying to the FBI… which we already knew.

    Again, it would be farcical, but Fox/RT/Breitbart would eat that shit right up. And then the media would be compelled to offer a “both sides” commentary.

  171. 171.

    MCA1

    Gallup hit 34/60 yesterday. Had “recovered” somewhat over the course of November from his all-time worst 34/62 of right before Halloween. Will be interesting to see if Flynn combined with promised signature on a monumentally unpopular tax bill finally takes us into the hallowed ’20s or gets the disapproval number to the 2/3 mark. Every time I’ve thought we’re headed there previously, the numbers have miraculously recovered, like the public has an incredibly short attention span or the movement is completely random, but there’s a likelihood that today’s Flynn plea leads to a cavalcade of negative stories and the entire nation actually paying attention for once. Fingers crossed.

  174. 174.

    Timurid

    @Ruckus:

    I always wondered what a petard was.

    A petard was a primitive satchel charge (think 18th century and earlier). It was a metal or wooden canister full of black powder, often shaped like a cup or bell to direct the blast and produce the rough equivalent of a modern shaped charge. It was used to breach gates, walls and other obstacles. The fuses were often unreliable, and if the bomb went off in your hands before you could place it, you were “hoist on your own petard.”

  175. 175.

    Ruckus

    @MattF:
    Another possibility is that he’s been turned. He might have done it for his own sake. Anyone with even just a smattering of something would know that his political life is most likely dead now, why make everything else go away as well? Not saying he’s a good person but the wind was blowing this way before the election, that if drumpf won there would be hell to pay for lots and lots of people, most of them innocent bystanders. And rinse is anything but an innocent bystander. He may be in this only up to his crotch but that’s far enough to be labeled really deep shit in the drumpf affair.
    I’d bet he’s either in hiding or in protective custody because he flipped months ago.

  176. 176.

    debbie

    If Mueller’s getting Flynn on lying, will there be no consequences for plotting to kidnap and rendition the Turkish cleric?

  177. 177.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Brachiator: Correct. It isn’t like Pence wouldn’t sign this stuff without thinking twice. Of course he’d get Mother’s permission first. He doesn’t do anything without Mother’s permission. And her daily safe word.

  178. 178.

    MattF

    @MCA1: Could happen. However, the difficulty is that the cohort who are on the margin between ‘approve’ and ‘disapprove’ are just not reasonable folks.

  179. 179.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    I got through directly to three of Bob Corker’s seven offices

    In Tennessee

    615-276-8125
    731-664-2294

    and 865-637-4180

    The first 2 are voice mail. The last one is a live operator. She’s polite, she takes your message and asks for a zip code. I gave her a state zip 37402

  183. 183.

    Tazj

    @tobie: I think it’s the latter.
    Kasie Hunt from MSNBC said that Jeff Flake’s speech on the Senate floor today was going to historic or words to that effect. What bullshit. His vote and the Republican vote for this bill is unconscionable, and the way it’s being rushed through is awful in and of itself. What about some analysis of the bill, you useless clowns? From what some healthcare experts know of what is in the bill the healthcare effects are like a skinny repeal.

  185. 185.

    The Moar You Know

    The minute he drops dead, the press will be drawing a gauzy curtain over all his crimes; he’ll just be the bold populist truth-teller of their wet dreams.

    @cckids: The Reagan Treatment.

    Not many people remember just what an absolute monster Reagan was. Hostile foreign collusion to throw an election? Murdering foreign leaders he didn’t like? Interfering with/destabilizing any country he saw as competition? That fucker wrote the book, Putin just polished it up for publication, and Trumpco has just followed it step by step, poorly.

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:
    The million dollar lawyer fees are his and his alone. How would the government pay bills that he racked up to protect himself from the shit that he has done? And more important why should they? He’s given up to avoid even worse, not to keep his house. Besides, on a personal note, I’ll never own another in this life (along with lots and lots of my fellow citizens) why should he?

  189. 189.

    debbie

    @The Moar You Know:

    I do.

    Don’t leave out the crassness of waging war on a small island to distract (there it is again) from not paying attention and negligently allowing 232 Marines to die.

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: No, there is no pee tape. The RUMINT is that allied intel services, specifically those of our Baltic partners, have far, far worse.

  193. 193.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule:

    Why do people keep saying stuff like this?

    They persist in believing Republicans have standards.

    The Republicans may have something, but it ain’t standards.

  194. 194.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @debbie: From what I am seeing the lawyers saying, Flynn has to have provided quite a bit on someone higher up the chain to have gotten to this point. And he has to totally cooperate from today forward. But IANAL.

  196. 196.

    Tim C.

    @TenguPhule: I think as much as anything this is the GOP being so used to lying about everything in the most apocalyptic terms possible (if we elect Obama, it means Israel wont exist in four years, FEMA death camps, it’s the government takeover of the automobile industry) that when Democrats start using that language they don’t get that we actually mean it. He committed treason. and they are supporting a traitor to his own country so they can loot the economy. And that looting won’t go any better than it did in the aughts, and it won’t go any better than it did in the late 20s. People really will actually die if they can’t get health care. Really. Not fake die, not my-accountant-had-to-file-an-extra-and-that’s-the-same-as-slavery die, but die die. They have lost the thread entirely. Tirerims and Anthrax indeed.

  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    @Raoul:
    It’s been downplayed because it would hurt the republican politicians, not because it would hurt the seniors.
    REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEIR CONSTITUENTS.
    It really is that simple. They are in it for the power and the money. Nothing else. I say that because if there were any other reason they wouldn’t be doing this bullshit dance about tax reform. This is a massive give away to their paymasters and they are lying to keep the rubes from finding this out and hoping that they get away with it and get good paying sinecures when they get thrown out of office for fucking their constituents. It might just work.

  203. 203.

    Immanentize

    My fantasy — Pence gets arrested — taken into custody — early this afternoon, preventing him from casting the necessary tie-breaking vote.

    I know, I know, but it would make a good movie….

  204. 204.

    Tazj

    Dan Pfeiffer @ danpfeiffer

    Jeff Flake agreed to burden America with a trillion dollars in debt in exchange for an invite to a meeting

    The meeting will be about DACA at the White House and we all know how truthful the WH is and how much they love immigrants.

  206. 206.

    The Dangerman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The RUMINT is that allied intel services, specifically those of our Baltic partners, have far, far worse.

    Far, far worse than a pee tape? The mind races (and I don’t think Little Donnie getting some from someone not named Melania would be far, far worse, unless we are talking someone even too young for Roy Moore).

  212. 212.

    Gravenstone

    @Nicole: One has to wonder whether Trump publicly stating that he had no intention of monetarily contributing towards Flynn’s defense needs hastened Flynn’s decision to cooperate with Mueller? Perhaps they’re only using the financial duress of his defense costs as a facile excuse. But if true, then Trump basically just shot himself in the dick over being a tightwad.

  214. 214.

    Felonius Monk

    @Kay:

    We really can’t have a nutjob racist as AG in 2017. It isn’t 1956.

    Actually, Kay, we did not have a nutjob racist AG in 1956. Even though he was a Republican, Herbert Brownell, who was Ike’s AG, drafted the basis for the Civil Rights Act of 1957. I believe this was the first civil rights legislation that was passed by Congress since the late 1800’s.

    So maybe 1956 was a lot better in some respects than 2017.

  217. 217.

    debbie

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Flynn seems to me to be the kind of guy who thinks he can outsmart everyone. I hope he gives them everything, but I won’t be surprised if he misleads or withhold.

    Hope you’re right. This has been a good day! Good news of a political bent.

  225. 225.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: Flynn seems to me to be the kind of guy who thinks he can outsmart everyone.

    Flynn, Flynn Jr, trump, Slab-head Donnie (Stolen from a thread this morning), Jared, Ivanka, Bannon, Kellyanne (though I’m sorry to say she may be the one member of this crew who at least knows to wear gloves, so to speak), Da Mooch, that thirty-year old racist speechwriter he got from Sessions, Omarosa….

  227. 227.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:
    Flynn may have has a lot of evidence to give. My point is that he is going to give that up, lose his house or not. Selling his house to pay his lawyer bills is his problem and his alone. He has a million in bills because of what he’s done and who he is. That’s on him and he’s already singing and giving up everyone he can to avoid far worse than a million in lawyer fees. He’s trying to save what he can. He’s not doing that to be a good guy, if he was a good guy he wouldn’t have done the shit in the first place. He did, ergo he’s not a good guy. I hope he’s broke and destitute at the end of this. I hope he gets free meals for 10-15 and I’m limiting it to 10-15 because he’s singing like a whole stadium of canaries. That won’t make him a good guy, only a guilty guy. Which, by the fact that he’s singing like that stadium of canaries, he is.
    IOW if he’s singing, drumpf and dense are going down. He’s not the only bird that will end up singing, most of the republican assholes are in this for one person and one person only, themselves. At the end of a day sometime soon I’d bet they will be standing in line for a deal, shouting Me First, Me First! Not all of them, a lot of them are no better than drumpf, who thinks he can do no wrong, that everything that he does is great, good and doesn’t smell like shit. He is of course 100% incorrect.

  229. 229.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Kushner is said to have ordered Flynn to contact Russia, reports @EliLake

    Trump throwing Kush under bus. Eli Lake is Bannon/Trump’s go to stenographer. So they’re desperately saying Trump didn’t order Flynn, it was Kushner.

  230. 230.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I know it’s lots of fun to speculate on what could be worse than the pee tape, but for Trump it’s probably financial. Maybe his income tax returns.

    Or evidence that he’s been cooperating with Russia. But that would only work if he were reasonably successful in his goals. Now that Flynn is cooperating, if Putin released something like that, it would clarify things and take down the whole bunch.

    I’m seeing some foreign policy experts thinking about what this means for Russia. I think it’s too early to figure that out, but I think that, except for the chaos he’s caused, this will not work out well for Mr. Putin. That’s a pretty big exception, but it’s possible that a clear and strong Russian connection will turn lots of (100-27%) Americans against Russia.

  231. 231.

    trollhattan

    @Felonius Monk:
    I would happily replace every post-Ike Republican president with Ike, flaws and all. Trump’s sole competition is in days golfing, which I suspect he could well win.

  232. 232.

    J R in WV

    @Ruckus:

    A petard was a large explosive charge intended to blow open a fortress door. Back in the day, these devices were less stable than they are today (and they are still pretty dangerous today!) and would often explode before the men setting the device were clear from the explosion.

    Hence, hoisted (blown up) by their own petard. The metaphor still works just fine. Especially for the Trump Mob.

  235. 235.

    Yarrow

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    okay, if I can have Giuliani in the dock at some point

    Rumors are that Giuliani has been begging for a deal for months but he has nothing worthwhile to offer Mueller. He’s keeping very quiet on advice of counsel to show good behavior for consideration at sentencing. He’s all mixed up in the corrupt NY FBI field office and will be charged for things associated with that. He really has almost vanished, which is very unlike him since he’s always been a guy who loves to be in front of a camera.

  237. 237.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Notice how he’s gone to radio silence since Comey started investigating.

    Rudy is addicted to media attention. He loves to come on after a terror attack, no matter where it occurs, to pontificate about a noun, a verb, and 9/11. Yet with the various attacks this year he was no where to be found.

    That he’s gone underground tells you he’s trying to evade the long arm of Bobby Three Sticks.

  241. 241.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Cheryl Rofer: I know it’s lots of fun to speculate on what could be worse than the pee tape, but for Trump it’s probably financial.

    I think it’s both, but yeah. I think trump is 1) not nearly as rich as he says 2) leveraged to the eyeballs 2a) to Russian and Chinese bankers tied to both gov’ts 3) has been complicit in money laundering for Russians and god knows who else for years.

    I still think trump never expected to run and the plan was for him to start a new FoxNews*/RT hybrid with Russian money that would get him attention, cash and allow Putin’s goons to continue to fuck with US politics through him

    * I can’t be the only one thinking Fox will take a big hit once Murdoch’s fetal grindings stop working and he goes back to hell.

    ETA: TrumpTeeVee, featuring Mr Trump’s Daily Report, featuring Maria Bartiromo, Ivanka’s Women In Business, Don Jr’s Heartland Report, and every night at 2 am eastern, Eric Trump shares his thoughts on pigeons and curly fries

  243. 243.

    Wapiti

    @debbie:

    Flynn seems to me to be the kind of guy who thinks he can outsmart everyone. I hope he gives them everything, but I won’t be surprised if he misleads or withhold.

    I don’t think Mueller would be surprised either. Or unprepared for that contingency.

  244. 244.

    gvg

    @Gravenstone: My understanding it paying for staffers defense made him (Trump) on the hook for bribery charges. He should never have paid anybodies defense and his lawyers are incompetent to have allowed it. Explanation also referred back to Clinton’s defense against Ken Starr. I don’t understand enough to repeat more details but you can probably google an explanation. I think this also relates to the GOP not paying for Trump anymore.

  246. 246.

    Yarrow

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I know it’s lots of fun to speculate on what could be worse than the pee tape, but for Trump it’s probably financial. Maybe his income tax returns.

    Mueller will get Trump on financial issues and what he doesn’t get Schneiderman will get on state charges. That doesn’t mean there’s not awful kompromat on Trump. The Russians will have used every bit of leverage they can and I’m certain there are several compromising videos of Trump. Exactly how bad and what they are, that remains to be seen.

  247. 247.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @debbie:

    Don’t leave out the crassness of waging war on a small island to distract (there it is again) from not paying attention and negligently allowing 232 Marines to die

    .Trump ordered the liberation of Puetro Rico then?

  249. 249.

    feebog

    Breaking out the bottle of Johnny Walker Blue while I watch TRMS tonight. Rachel will be on a tear.

  251. 251.

    MattF

    @Cheryl Rofer: Could relate to money laundering. There’s some thinking that the big building boom in Manhattan was closely related to the oceans of money that were looking for a new home. Much of it Russian.

  252. 252.

    Bruce K

    @debbie: With regard to the Turkish cleric thing, that’s probably part of Mueller’s leverage. Probably under the “you try to screw us on this plea-bargain, and you’ll die in Sing Sing even if Trump pardons you” clause.

  253. 253.

    MCA1

    All the best people.

    JFC, America. Thanks a lot. I’m not a Rhodes Scholar and I could see this iceberg from 50 nautical miles away. WTF? Mostly today has me gleeful in spite of the tax scam, but sweet goddamn, we are a broken wreck of easily conned, ungovernable, illiterate, feral morons. Donald Fucking Trump. Seriously.

    Thank you for allowing me a space to vent. Now back to my cheering of Robert Mueller.

  254. 254.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Tim C.:

    Worse?!?!? What the ever-loving-hell?

    Since Trump lacks imagination, a pro-dom double of Hillary Clinton is right out (and more the pity) so I am going with Trump with underage girls.

  256. 256.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No, there is no pee tape. The RUMINT is that allied intel services, specifically those of our Baltic partners, have far, far worse.

    OK, it’s just mean to drop that brick into the bubbling hot stew on a pretty Friday afternoon with nary a clue about what’s worse, far, far, worse!

    But we can take it. Now I’ll have to work out in my won mind what’s worse than the golden-shower video. Discussing how to make billions in dirty money by throwing the USA down the tube? That sounds likely, actually. I hope to see those tapes, eventually.

  257. 257.

    ruemara

    @The Moar You Know: Sorry. No. There’s too many folks who are hurting and scared now. Keeping a wounded monster in office because he’s been found out? No. The message we’d be sending as a people is that treason is ok within limits and so is insanity. Keeping him in power is a non-starter. I see republicans calling for massive general strikes if Drumpf tries to fire Mueller. It’s time to use every tool within peaceable means at our disposal. Shut down the goddamned country and get these treasonous, evil, motherfuckers out.

  258. 258.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Aimai: I think Trump refusing to sign the tax bill would be the smartest thing he could do so of course he won’t.

  259. 259.

    Frank Wilhoit

    I continue to predict that Flynn will be an absolute, indeed a unique, disaster in the witness box. He is a delusional zealot. Add Alex Jones to Louie Gohmert and square the sum. The best we may hope is that no single aspect of Mueller’s case will rest upon Flynn’s testimony alone.

  261. 261.

    MattF

    @debbie: That whole business is just incomprehensible. One would think Flynn might have said to himself “Hey, kidnapping is kinda frowned on, right?” In fact, it’s very illegal.

  262. 262.

    TenguPhule

    @ruemara:

    . I see republicans calling for massive general strikes if Drumpf tries to fire Mueller.

    Not gonna happen. As Trump goes, so Republicans must follow. He knows too much.

  265. 265.

    TenguPhule

    @MattF:

    One would think Flynn might have said to himself “Hey, kidnapping is kinda frowned on, right?” In fact, it’s very illegal.

    Flynn obviously believed they were never going to get caught.

    Most Criminals do.

  267. 267.

    Ruckus

    I’d bet that drumpf will not pardon Flynn. If Flynn gives up everything, and I believe that is what is going to/already has happened to get to this point, Flynn has turned on drumpf. drumpf can not abide by anyone not licking his boots. Even if it were in his best interest, or may be because it might be in his best interest, Flynn saying one word against him win lose Flynn a pardon. It will be explained to drumpf, because he won’t understand it, that a pardon gets Flynn out of trouble but loses him his 5th amendment rights. He will have to sing in the open, he can’t hide at all. I’d also bet that if drumpf does give Flynn a pardon, Flynn will refuse it.

  268. 268.

    TenguPhule

    @Frank Wilhoit:

    I continue to predict that Flynn will be an absolute, indeed a unique, disaster in the witness box.

    Its not in the box where he was the most value.

  270. 270.

    Tim C.

    @Cheryl Rofer: I agree, Putin has never been as much of an evil mastermind as people give him credit for. He’s a nuclear armed gangster who is exploiting weaknesses in the current world systems along with the ignorance and greed that make up the Republican party. But Putin isn’t going to get much in the long or short run for is efforts. Sure, a weakened US is going to happen. But it’s not as if he’s in a position to get much more than he has already. Sanctions will remain in place, he’ll keep what he has for now (some puppet states on his periphery and the Crimea) but what else does he think he’s going to get?

    also, I now have to bleach my brain over googling the Epstein stuff.

  271. 271.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: No, not as an attorney — with Trump and the sex tapes. There are credible reports that Dershowitz and Epstein used to party together with the youngsters.

  272. 272.

    The Moar You Know

    I hope to see those tapes, eventually.

    @J R in WV: You really don’t, and I suspect that viewing them outside of a law enforcement context would be a crime, if you get my drift and I think you can.

  274. 274.

    cckids

    @The Moar You Know: I’ll never forget what a shitty president Reagan was; I graduated HS in 1981, and was gobsmacked by the number of people taken in by a person who was obviously (to me) lying and/or stupid. And the ludicrous re-writing of history that is STILL going on is infuriating. Just yesterday, some GOPper on NPR was flogging the Reagan tax cuts and how they “reinvigorated the economy”. And the reporter just let it slide on by.

    My blood pressure is too damn high for this crap.

  275. 275.

    SFAW

    @ruemara:

    I see republicans calling for massive general strikes if Drumpf tries to fire Mueller.

    As TenguPhule says, never happen. If you mean their “elected” officials: too many of them are scared of their base to do anything more than some bullshit complaints about Lying Littledick. If you’re taking about the Rethug voters: half of them would rather see the country destroyed than their god-king be removed, the other half don’t give two shits (because if they did, they wouldn’t have elected the lying mofos* who infest Congress.)

    *And by “lying mofos,” I of course mean Rethugs and Dems, because I have been told that there’s no difference between the two. **
    ** The source for that claim includes some of the most highly respected names in politics: Ralph Nader; Susan Sarandon, and DOCTOR Jill Stein.

  277. 277.

    J R in WV

    @Ruckus:

    I also figured that out. Sometimes I can be overly literal and fail to see metaphor and such like tools. I can usually pick out sarcasm, but not always.

    ;-)

  278. 278.

    Matt McIrvin

    @debbie: There was a rumor that the Comey letter happened in part because a group of anti-Clinton wingnuts in the New York field office were about to leak information about Anthony Weiner’s laptop, so Comey was trying to forestall the embarrassment by releasing the information himself.

  280. 280.

    MCA1

    @J R in WV: I want to, too, but a substantial part of me thinks I’d be severely disappointed in the answer we would get, in the event tapes of monstrously gross behavior were ever to drop, to the question of “Is there anything that Trump could be irrefutably shown to have done that would get more than half of Republican voters to say ‘Yeah, I guess that’s worse than having Hillary Clinton as President.'”

  281. 281.

    Immanentize

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It really doesn’t matter who Eli Lake says it is, Mueller and team KNOW who were in those meetings and on those calls. Pence is certainly one of them. Liar.

    ETA By which I mean “I’m too stupid to be involved” Pence is the liar, not the above named anchor baby.

  282. 282.

    ruemara

    @SFAW: No, I don’t mean “elected officials”. I mean republicans who aren’t about to serve a traitor. These aren’t folks who want to preserve status quo, these are people who still identify with the party but not with the current iteration. They’re the only ones who are talking general strike and that includes folks on the left.

    @debbie: They were using the “Clinton Cash” book as a gospel bible and trying to corroborate it. The threat was to release more EMAILS nonsense. The claim was that NYC FBI was “Trump Country” while the DC office was “WTF ARE YOU DOING COUNTRY”. Comey failed at reining in his men.

  285. 285.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: A new Russian-Egyptian military agreement, including Russian basing in Egypt, was announced yesterday by Sisi. Putin’s negotiated a land corridor through Azerbaijan into Iran and from there to an Iranian port for a second warm water port. He’s negotiating the denoument to the Syrian Civil War. He’s just about worked the Serbs up for a new war in the Balkans, which will be maskirovka for him to try to grab the Baltics and the Balkans and maybe part of Finland as necessary to secure Russian interests and Russian speaking people.

  287. 287.

    Ruckus

    @J R in WV:
    And for me there are days when I live only for the sarcasm. Otherwise the day is wasted. This may be one of those days. I can never tell until it’s over.

  288. 288.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: The NY Field Office has been manipulated six ways to Sunday by the Russian mob in New York. Basically the equivalent to what happened to the Boston Field Office with the Irish Mob/Whitey Bulger. The Feebs thought they were running the mob guys. The reality is the mob guys were running the Feebs. And the leadership and senior officials, until very recently, in the NY Field Office are all tied to Giuliani from when he was US Attorney.

  289. 289.

    Captain C

    @Tim C.: A pee tape is laughable and not illegal. His rabid supporters might even think it’s cool that it happened on a bed that the Obamas slept on. Think some combination of blatantly underage girls and/or boys, said girls and/or boys laughing at his tiny…fingers, extreme violence on the part of Trump (possibly due to his tininess being mocked), or suchlike. At least that would be my guess, based on what we know of Trump and his proclivities.

  290. 290.

    TenguPhule

    @MCA1:

    “Is there anything that Trump could be irrefutably shown to have done that would get more than half of Republican voters to say ‘Yeah, I guess that’s worse than having Hillary Clinton as President.’”

    No. SATSQ.

  291. 291.

    Immanentize

    @Yarrow:

    Exactly how bad and what they are, that remains to be seen.

    And I for one cannot wait to see them.

    More in sadness than in happy happy joy joy!, but y’know see them still….

  292. 292.

    Immanentize

    @MattF: One need only look at Kensington in London to realize just how much Russian money was looking for a home in the 90’s.

  295. 295.

    cckids

    @Peking Man: From Merriam-Webster: “Aside from historical references to siege warfare, and occasional contemporary references to fireworks, “petard” is almost always encountered in variations of the phrase hoist with one’s own petard, meaning “victimized or hurt by one’s own scheme.” The phrase comes from Shakespeare’s Hamlet: “For ’tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his own petar.” “Hoist” in this case is the past participle of the verb hoise, meaning “to lift or raise,” and “petar(d)” refers to an explosive device used in siege warfare. Hamlet uses the example of the engineer (the person who sets the explosive device) being blown into the air by his own device as a metaphor for those who schemed against Hamlet being undone by their own schemes. The phrase has endured, even if its literal meaning has largely been forgotten.”
    The things I learn here!

  296. 296.

    J R in WV

    @The Moar You Know:

    OK, you’re right, I don’t want to see those tapes. I was on a Grand Jury once and had to look at the evidence, at least a little of it. There was a giant stack, and no one went all the way through it.

    If there are financial conspiracy tapes, with Russian oligarchs conspiring with Don Trump, those I would want to see, after trial was over and Trump was rolled away to Florence, CO.

  297. 297.

    Brachiator

    @Aimai:

    i think trymp refuses to sign the tax bill unless they protect him. Then they dump him for pence.

    Now, that would be an interesting play.

    But the GOP has to protect Trump anyway. Some of them might be caught up in the Russian connection investigation. And they cannot dump Trump and retain their voters’ good will.

    In some ways, the smart thing for the GOP to do, assuming that Trump is unstable and might lead us into a nasty conflict with North Korea, would be to dump Trump and get Pence safely in place.

    However, the GOP ain’t smart.

  298. 298.

    Captain C

    @debbie:

    I won’t be surprised if he misleads or withhold.

    If he does that, Mueller will a) probably indict him on everything that he (Mueller) has, and b) go after his son. Flynn knows this.

  299. 299.

    Immanentize

    @Frank Wilhoit: There are witnesses and then there are records and documents. Most serious prosecutions are built with ones and zeros these days. This one will be no different. There are no Perry Mason moments in cases like these.

  302. 302.

    SFAW

    @ruemara:

    No, I don’t mean “elected officials”. I mean republicans who aren’t about to serve a traitor. These aren’t folks who want to preserve status quo, these are people who still identify with the party but not with the current iteration.

    I admire your optimism. To paraphrase Mencken: No one has lost money overestimating the ability and willingness of Rethugs and their voters to do the morally wrong thing.

  306. 306.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: He’s the Russian mob’s krysha – the ceiling. You need to think of Russia under Putin less as a soft authoritarian oligarchy and more as an organized crime cartel operating across all elements of national power.

  308. 308.

    Tehanu

    @Yarrow:

    Cooperating is not just an agreement to tell the prosecutor what you know, it is a very finely crafted and documented proffer that the defendant has to give to the prosecutor before any deal will happen. ,,, if your proffer turns out to be untrue — even sometimes in the smallest of details, the deal is off.

    I was catching up on last season’s Elementary yesterday and that is the exact thing that happened in the final episode — the villain’s immunity deal was withdrawn when he was caught in a small lie about a related thing. Of course, I don’t want Flynn’s deal withdrawn; I want him testifying about Dump’s treasonous acts till the cows come home.

  309. 309.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: It is unclear if the organized crime guys got their hooks into him when he was Deputy Mayor of Saint Petersburg for Economic Development and rode him all the way up or vice versa. At this point it doesn’t really matter.

  310. 310.

    karensky

    Hey, thanks for that, Miz Cracker. I have called my senators — Casey = awesome and Toomey is a total tool on everything. His Philly staff are on shut down mode.

    It feel like it will be 1929 all over again. I am creeped out but persistent in my resistance.

  314. 314.

    Captain C

    @Adam L Silverman: Karen Dawisha’s book Putin’s Kleptocracy has a good accounting of Putin’s rise and how his various ties to Russian organized crime developed. One of the main things he did from his early political days in St. Petersburg is make sure that even if he wasn’t the leader of the various factions and orgs, he was the only one with ties to all of the other important ones. This is why I think that once he either falls, retires, or dies, Russia could very well implode unless the transition is managed very carefully (and with various factions that will no longer be united by their relationship with Putin, this could be very difficult, indeed).

  315. 315.

    Captain C

    @debbie: I’m sure you can find a bar in the seedier parts of Brighton Beach or St. Petersburg which would hire them. I probably wouldn’t want to go there, though.

    That said, once upon a time when I was in the Soviet Union (January 1991) on a 3-week student trip, I did catch a couple of Russian cover bands playing Western tunes. They weren’t the greatest, but they were definitely having fun.

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