Republican activists and lawmakers are engaged in a multi-front attack on special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe of possible connections between associates of President Trump and Russian agents, trying to stop or curtail the investigation as it moves further into Trump’s inner circle.
For months, the president and his allies have been seizing on any whiff of possible impropriety by Mueller’s team or the FBI to argue that the Russia probe is stacked against Trump — potentially building the political support needed to dismiss the special counsel.
Several law enforcement officials said they are concerned that the constant drumbeat of conservative criticism seems designed to erode Mueller’s credibility, making it more politically palatable to remove, restrict or simply ignore his recommendations as his investigation progresses.
Congress will do nothing, you can count on that.
There may be mass resignations from Trump’s cabinet. Perhaps the FBI, CIA, and foreign intelligence will dump everything they know about Trump and his yellow streak, so to speak.
It’s coming and we on the left should think about how we plan to respond, FWIW.
raven
I know you’ll hate this version
Nouvelle Vague – Guns Of Brixton
randy khan
There’s already a plan for mass protests if Mueller is fired.
Otherwise, Schneiderman, sealed indictments, the existence of all of the records of the investigation, all make it hard to completely sweep it under the rug.
Also, apparently Trump still has lawyers telling him everything is fine.
SFAW
@randy khan:
That and five bucks will get you a small whatever at Starbucks.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I don’t know how much they can really do over the long haul. The American people are against them on this. Short of declaring martial law or something, and just jailing or even shooting hundreds of thousands or millions of protesters, their time is running out, whatever they do to Mueller.
smintheus
Who’s going to do the firing? I don’t see any easy means for Trump or his minions to fire Mueller, much less to prevent him from telling the world what he uncovered even if he were fired.
Lapassionara
@raven: so, are you going to the Rose Bowl?
Jeffro
@randy khan:
That might not do a whole lot at first…but if it gets targeted right, hits the right people in the wallet…
Yup. If Mueller is fired and Congress does nothing…there’s no reason not to release it all publicly, every bit of it. Let the people see what all of the GOP kkklowns have been up to. Let ’em see who Trumpov’s really in bed with. And let AG Schneiderman drop the hammer on the Trump Org for money laundering and RICO charges.
You almost have to wonder about those guys…a blessing in disguise, in their own way, intentionally or not…
raven
@Lapassionara: Oh god, I knew it would happen. It’s just not in our budget to go and I GOT TICKETS!!!
burnspbesq
Oddly, Rosenstein said just yesterday that Mueller is doing a fine job. In the world of things I’m going to worry about, Mueller getting fired in the short term doesn’t compete with the tax bill, Federal concealed carry, or Gillibrand trying to railroad Franken out of the Senate.
Jeffro
Btw Trump supporting Moore and dragging the GOP along with him: he HAD to do that and it has little to do with the tax vote ahead or anything else. It reaffirms that the GOP will support anyone – a serial sexual assaulter and all-around creep, say – as long as said creep delivers on their priorities/soothes their fears (real or imagined).
Trump is Moore and Moore is Trump. Trump could no more sit on the sidelines than he could ‘fess up and admit to sexual assault. Moore was never going to quit the race.
What we need to be telling the GOP is, “not only do you own Trump…not only do you own Moore…you have guaranteed there will be many more like them. What will you be defending a year from now?”
Citizen_X
By making a few more dem senators resign, I assume.
@raven: Yay!
yet another jeff
@randy khan:
Well, yeah…otherwise they get sent to the cornfield.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Get Bernie to use the Bully Pulpit
Yarrow
@raven: Budget, schmudget. Go, go, go!
SFAW
@Citizen_X:
From your keyboard to the Purity Pony God’s ears. (Also, please note that I had my pinky uplifted when I typed that.)
Dave
Not actually that concerned about this. Trump has terrible judgement outside of a very narrow range and is fundamentally a coward. He may well decide to fire Mueller at some point but it will almost certainly be far too late and done in the dumbest possible manner. As others have noted some of the response has already been gamed out and that involves the NYS AG.
Ultimately this will be determined in the ballot box. And while I have no doubt the GOP will be pulling out as many stops as they can to screw the vote people seem to finally be waking up to this. And every victory against suppression we win makes the next victory easier.
My other comfort is not only are these not bright guys they seem idealogicaly unable to grok competence and Mueller well as far as I can tell he is damned competent. It’s not an even playing field.
So maybe I am still being pollyanish but I’m not as concerned about this as I could be. Not complacent since I put it at 50/50 he fires Mueller at some point but that point will be far too late and the final nail.
frosty
@raven: Take a deep breath, realize you’re a Valued Commenter, suck it up and start a GoFundMe for us.
EAT: or what @Yarrow: said.
Cacti
If Dems follow their usual m.o….
They’ll demand a Democrat resign for it.
GregB
Trump’s biggest drop in approval was when he canned Comey.
He’s flirting with the high 20’s in approval.
If he tries to go Ceaucescu it aint gonna work.
Lapassionara
@raven: if you go, and Georgia loses, will you regret spending the money? If not, you should go. Seriously, it is only money.
Yarrow
@Jeffro: Some of the intel comes from our allies around the world. If Mueller is fired I would not be surprised to see some of that intel be released.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: I like that version. A cover that tries to do something interesting with the song.
Villago Delenda Est
@GregB: If we go Ceausescu on him (and the Ivana spawn), that’s a different story.
Corner Stone
Let’s play it straight. All the D’s on the House IC Committee and all D’s on the Senate investigative committees should pre-emptively resign. Just as a show of good faith and moral high ground.
different-church-lady
Well, the very first thing we ought to do is make sure any Democratic senator who has squeezed a woman resigns. After that, the rest falls into place.
Mike in NC
@Jeffro: I’ve said many times that sooner or later a confessed serial killer will run for the US House (of Reprehensibles) as a Republican with the blessings of the RNCC.
Mary G
I am still writing postcards to Darrell Issa. Today I did Trump still needs to release his tax returns, Congress needs to investigate Trump’s history of sexual harassment, the concealed carry bill is wrong, the tax bill is wrong, last year I itemized $11,716 in medical expenses despite having Medicare and the best supplement you can buy, so you better not vote for the conference bill, and net neutrality is good and corporate tax cuts and the carried interest exception are bad.
Then I called his local office and told them I get madder every day.
different-church-lady
@GregB: In the end going Ceaucescu didn’t really work out well for Ceaucescu either.
Gin & Tonic
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
There will not *be* millions of protesters. Americans don’t have the temperament for it.
Hunter Gathers
@different-church-lady: The Democratic Party – where you can grope any woman you want as long she’s not underage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT:
different-church-lady
@Hunter Gathers: Yes, we wouldn’t want to be Republicans, after all.
But her emails!!!
@Hunter Gathers: Actual groping may not apply.
JoeyJoeJoe Junior Shabadoo
@Mike in NC: republicans already went there, kind of. Remember Allen West?
oldster
I drove to the Women’s March in January, and the March for Science few months later. It’s a long drive, but worth it.
If Trump lifts a finger against Mueller, I will get in the car and drive to DC. I hope the rest of you will meet me there.
SFAW
@different-church-lady: @But her emails!!!:
Both parties are the same, after all
different-church-lady
@SFAW: Yet, oddly, the penalties are not.
MobiusKlein
General Strike?
Jeffro
@Yarrow: If Mueller is fired, I expect that’ll be the least of it – Mueller’s team themselves would just make everything public, then get out of the NY AG’s (and Congress’?) way.
Btw I see tonight that reports are Don Jr refused to answer questions about what he told his dad re: Russia (as in, period – no answer there). Smoke, meet fire.
Immanentize
@raven: You must go! For all Dawg lovers everywhere. Like others here, I’ll chip in gas money (or whatever you wanna spend it on).
EM
I keep seeing post after post about how Trump and the Republicans are about to come after Mueller but the bottom line is they can’t fire him. They can start a process which would be rather lengthy and Incredibly difficult which might end up with his removal but the odds of that happening are probably less than 5%.
First Trump would have to fire either Sessions or Rosenstein. That would be an equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off which in and of itself would result with millions of people protesting in the streets. It is within that context that Trump would then have to get his replacement out of the Judiciary Committee and confirmed by the Senate. It is almost unfathomable that a new attorney-general would be confirmed without strings attached essentially preventing him from firing Muller. Yes I know Republicans are horrible but this process would be going on with millions of people protesting in the streets and the midterms looming just months away.
And even then if Trump somehow managed to fire sessions or Rosenstin and then get one of his puppets out of the Judiciary Committee and confirmed by the Senate, even at that point you can’t just go ahead and fire Muller.
As John Dean explained it, “Unlike the summary firing of Archibald Cox by Nixon, to remove Mueller or any of his staff would require an investigation and proceeding by the Department of Justice, and would be subject to appeal in federal court. Indeed, these regulations were written to make it difficult to remove a special counsel, and I seriously doubt Trump can succeed. These regulations would have to be nullified by Trump, but I have little doubt Mueller could and would litigate that action, and prevail in federal court because a president cannot remove due process to accomplish his goal of removing the special counsel. Nor with a special counsel as experienced and careful as Mueller, can he exercise any control over the investigation.”
So, could Trump fire Muller? Possibly. But the odds of that happening are incredibly low.
Jeffro
@Mike in NC: One certainly could. The Rs seem to not be able to draw a line as to who could possibly be worse than..than…a DEMOCRAT! And so we will keep finding out each election cycle what is acceptable in their view. Alexandra Petri absolutely nailed this in a WaPo column today…lemme go dig up the link…
gene108
Lawrence O’Donnel has a poll up on his show.
67% of respondents think Trump & Co are somewhat or very likely mucking about with Russians
26% think Trump&Co had nothing or very little to do with Russia.
6% just don’t know.
We maybe nearing the crazification factor with regards to Trump’s Presidency’s approval with voters
I don’t think people will just shrug off firing Mueller.
Best case is they vote the buns out in 2018
Jeffro
Here you go (by Petri): I’m Definitely Not In Favor of Sex Cannibals. So Why Do I keep Voting For Them?
Cacti
@Corner Stone:
And maybe apologize for ____________ as they do.
Immanentize
@EM: Agreed. I’ve been saying similar things all along. It seems like the “Mueller will be fired!” Is some weird masochistic hope on the part of many on the left unconnected to the realities of civil service laws and DOJ structures.
Doug!
@oldster:
I’ll be there if I can.
Jeffro
Btw I just watched his dumb remarks about the Middle East and what not…no, the guy didn’t have a stroke; yes his denture were probably slipping. But jesus, having to watch his tiny hands waving around and seeing him robotically swivel from dead-on to the camera to 45 degrees left (his left) back and forth made me seasick.
chris
This can’t end well.
Amaranthine RBG
@EM:
Or, Trump fires Mueller and immediately gets a TRO stating that Trump has power to do so and requiring Mueller to vacate post. Then there is emergency appeal to Supreme Court which accepts and then rules in favor of Trump.
Who knows.
The old rules don’t apply and it all depends on 5 votes. And you just appointed one of them.
Kay
They won’t do anything to Mueller. They’re scared of going to prison. Imagine Trump, or any of these people, in prison. They’re the most spoiled, coddled people on the planet. Trump can’t even stay in a hotel he’s unfamiliar with.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Gin & Tonic:
There were on January 21.
Mai.naem.mobile
If Mueller is fired I seriously would anticipate violence against some random federal elected office GOPrs. I am not being hyperbolic here, I really believe that violence would happen.
GregB
@chris:
I assume he will be the Sec. of State once Tillerson gets voted off the Island of Dr. Moreau.
Gin & Tonic
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Sure, but that was one day. Would they keep coming back, and back, and back, through the coldest part of winter, like the Ukrainians did in 2014? Not a chance.
GregB
@different-church-lady:
Failed bigly.
Mike in NC
@Jeffro: Assuming that Disneyworld will someday see fit to add an animinaic Donald Trump to their lame presidents hall, the robot will be more lifelike than the original.
Peale
@Cacti: finally.that reckoning for Bill Clinton we’ve been waiting for! Down to 36 members in the Senate, we can just rotate a Senator into the minority leader role each month until the end of Trumps time in office. Until we find one who progressives won’t be demanding an immediate resignation from so that we can have a fresh face.
Immanentize
@GregB: I’m thinking more “The Tempest” and Caliban?
Carolina Dave
@raven:
Every college football fan should have a Rose and Sugar Bowl rainy day slush fund on which to rely.
Unless you go every 4th year like some SEC, BIG 10, or PAC 12 schools.
UGA in Pasedena? For a semifinal? Unless you think it likely for a future trip, GO! NOW! Should be a great game.
Ruckus
@MobiusKlein:
It may be the only way. But first how about a boycott of any and every big corp that in anyway supported or supports drumpf? Let our money do the talking. We know that the big money on the right will spend but only to purchase politicians and the lack of laws. We control billions of dollars of trade, with a lot of companies that need our money to have income to not pay taxes on. We know some of the cardboard pizza assholes not to support. Any business that the kochsucker bros own any part of. Mobil/Exon gave us Tillerson, should we still support them? How about others to avoid?
If they are going to make life tough for us, lets do the same for them. I suggest just at least check out the places you normally go and see if they should be boycotted. If you do, post on BJ and let’s get cracking.
Mike in NC
@chris: Bolton leading Trump around by the nose on Pearl Harbor Day? Who could possibly be in the line of fire?
tobie
It’s the end of a long day and I have to say I’m burning with rage at the Democratic Party’s willingness to throw Franken under the bus without any investigation of the claims, most of which strike me as flimsy (he squeezed my waste, his hand grazed my butt in what may or may not have been a grab, etc.) and designed for the sole purpose of helping Roy Moore’s campaign. In 2016 we learned how easy it was to dupe the left and the right when it came to HRC. And in 2017 we’re learning how easy it is to weaponize the #MeToo movement to destroy the lives of unabashed liberal politicians. 6 months ago I didn’t have much of an impression of Gillibrand one way or another. Now I can’t stand her.
Amaranthine RBG
Americans don’t even fucking know what a general strike is.
BruceFromOhio
Personally, I favor greasing the guillotines with the fat of billionaires. But let’s be honest, nothing short of a well-armed and -timed coup is gonna shakes these leeches loose. The soulless two bit ratfuck criminals in the House of Shards have already demonstrated a craven wont to piss all over anything that isn’t a tax cut or fucking over the poors, women, and non-whites. Oh, but 2018 elections! Yep. Counting the days, one by one. Supporting the local get-out-the-vote and Sen Browns’ re-election. Until then, stalking Act Blue and drinking heavily. *sigh*
@Amaranthine RBG: This. Once upon a time it worked at a regional or business line level. Now, we lack the capacity to organize, and the brass jewels to execute.
Yarrow
@chris: That’s the second story in the last week about how Trump is getting around the restrictions to access to the oval office that Kelly has put in place. Wonder if Trump will fire Kelly. He can do that and might just because he’s pissed off at being managed.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Too swell. I hope the guy wins big, and takes that Davis bitch’s family career away from her. Full of Christian Hate… deserves to desperately need a real job at the corner quickmart, selling gas at 2 am.
Brachiator
@MobiusKlein:
We don’t do general strikes in the US.
schrodingers_cat
Daily ritual self flagellation and violent fantasy thread!
Corner Stone
@tobie: I can’t fucking stand her.
Dmbeaster
Forget “planning”. Yell loudly that they are trying to rig the deal, fix the outcome. Yell that they are corrupt and want to subvert the rule of law. Call the GOPers aiders and abettors. Civility just does not cut it
Yarrow
@tobie:
That’s an unexpected kink.
Dmbeaster
Anybody who argues Franken must resign must argue that Clinton should have resigned, and Hillary was a sh!t for staying with him.
different-church-lady
@Dmbeaster: And yet somehow is not required to argue that Trump or Thomas must resign.
Odd that.
BruceFromOhio
@schrodingers_cat: Rotating tag line entry?
Amaranthine RBG
@Dmbeaster:
Well, obvs.
Carolina Dave
@Corner Stone:
As much as I hate circular firing squads, she organizated the current one. I was saying WTF abut her Clinton comments 2 weeks ago. Some serious blind ambition, this one has, unconcerned with collateral damage of allied troops. Yes, fuck her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this made me chuckle
Gin & Tonic
@Yarrow: Rule 34.
Doug R
There won’t be millions of protesters killed because after the first few thousand, it’ll look like Libya. Not how much of the armed forces would back trump up either, especially on the left coast.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dmbeaster: Must resign might well no longer enter into it. If he does resign tomorrow, now what?
B.B.A.
@Dmbeaster: That’s rapidly becoming the new conventional wisdom among Democrats under a certain age. We ignore them at our own peril.
Gillibrand is playing hardball and she’s a frontrunner for the 2020 nomination. Are you really such purity ponies that you’d reelect Trump/Pence/Ryan/whoever over her?
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: 2: ?
3: PROFIT!
different-church-lady
@B.B.A.: What makes you think she will garner electoral rewards for being on the morally correct side of this scandal?
Kay
I love to think of them all worried, because no one is watching this more closely than the co-conspirators in and around the White House. They’re not really tough guys. They’re corrupt rich people who found themselves running the country after they had already broken all these laws. They can’t undo any of it now. They just have to wait and hope they don’t end up in prison. Out of their hands, really.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dmbeaster: I think Clinton was saved from being forced out by Rs’ lunge for impeachment. Other people’s marriages are foreign countries, as was often said back then.
Omnes Omnibus
@B.B.A.: And all men are misogynists. Fuck you.
Yarrow
LOL. I’d missed this.
B.B.A.
@different-church-lady: Vox is still in business and it can’t be all (or even mostly) hatereaders.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Erik Prince told Congress he had just flown in from Africa and he wasn’t going along with their “fishing expedition”
They should wait until he goes back to Africa and call him back in. Once a month or so, forever.
Peale
@tobie: yep. It’s the damn email story all over again, but faster. Should Hillary have dropped out of the race immediately after the server issue surfaced? No. She didn’t. But what came next was a feeding frenzy of email stories that really were nothing, but enough that they managed to convince people under the spell of 25 years of narrative that the server proved something. She always skirts the law! She always gets away with her crimes because she’s shifty! She only had that sever because she thinks she’s above the law and if I did the same thing I’d be fired! If you can’t find that email that says “thanks for the donation Sheik Omar. I’m going to use those funds to add a wing onto the mansion. Fuck the poor, illiterate and disease ridden lower classes”…well that’s because she’s crafty and deleted them.
So maybe she should have just dropped out. But there was 25 years of hard work to plant that narrative in our heads about the great Clinton Betrayal Of Liberalism on the left.
Al Franken did not have that baggage. It took three weeks. Actually less.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Yarrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHu-2vyvaQY
Carolina Dave
@B.B.A.:
And so who is the candidate actually saying that out loud? And plunging knives into more progressive Dems. Her ambition and ruthlessness makes her dangerous. Can I trust her to actually govern as a progressive?
different-church-lady
@B.B.A.: Vox has electoral votes?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
can we worry about Sherrod Brown’s reelection, Jacky Rosen taking on Dean Heller, Ann Sinema against whatever the AZ Republican party coughs up, Grandpa Phil Bredeson (sp?) against (probably) vicious and glib and good-on-teevee Marsha Blackburn, and a couple hundred House races before we start deciding who’s dead to us in 2020?
Yarrow
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It’s in the tweet I posted if you click through.
Mike J
@Dmbeaster:
A favorite argument of Republicans was that Hillary should have divorced Bill.I always thought that no matter what he did, their marriage was between them. Sad to see Democrats trying to decide what the love|sex lives of others should look like. (I realise this does not apply to you.)
Mike J
Has anybody played Chivalry: Medieval Warfare? I got the humble bundle for the jingle jangle and it looks interesting.
mouse tolliver
Democrats are getting played so hard right now. They get punk’d into kicking Franken out of the party then the right uses their mob mentality to discredit the entire #metoo movement. Just scrolled through Gillibrand’s twitter and couldn’t find a single comment supporting what she did. Even abuse survivors are criticizing this move.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@different-church-lady:
Who’s saying Thomas or Trump shouldn’t resign? Of course they should. But we can say that all we want. We can’t control what they do, we only have some say over what we do. When people harass women, should we just stand aside and make believe it isn’t happening because we like who’s doing it?
I love Al Franken. I was hoping he’d stay there for 20 years, and until a few weeks ago, I thought he would. But how can we just say, “Hey, it’s our guy, so let’s forget this.”? Yeah, I know, it’s nothing like what Moore did or Trump has done, but it was enough to upset, what, four or five women? I don’t see how we can let that slide.
You can ask if this is unfair. I don’t know, maybe it is. Nobody would have given a shit and a half about this ten years ago or even three years ago. But things are no longer the same, and I’m glad it’s happening. And Al Franken is hardly going to be the last. I don’t know how many more of these stories are going to come out about people we love, or who the next one will be. But it is going to happen. There isn’t any going back now, and we’d damned well better get used to this, and make our minds up, as Democrats and as liberals, what our answer is going to be the next time and the time after that, and all the 673 times after that that it keeps on happening until we weed these guys out.
We might as well get good at handling this, because, whether we like it or not, whether it’s fair or not, it’s coming. As long as it’s going to happen, and as long as we’re going to have to end up doing the right thing sooner or later anyway, I’d much sooner not have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing it.
Timurid
@Brachiator:
Because the lack of an effective social safety net makes an extended general strike a win or die gambit.
eemom
By finding some woman who Mueller brushed past once while exiting an elevator and getting her story in the Atlantic on the same day that Dump starts WWIII, of course.
tobie
@Yarrow: Oh dear…I said it was a long day. My spelling has clearly gone to the [email protected]Peale: Everyone says time’s sped up with the internet and social media. So 25 years of character assassination can now be done in three weeks. Things were likely better in the days of carrier pigeons.
randy khan
@yet another jeff:
Okay, that made me laugh out loud.
Corner Stone
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Shut up, purity asshole.
Corner Stone
@mouse tolliver: We’re getting punked by rwnj assholes and an uncontrolled ambitious asshole on “our” side.
debbie
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I agree with you.
Cacti
@eemom:
That piece today read like The Atlantic published a story by a bad right wing caricature of a liberal woman to troll everyone.
I especially enjoyed her “I don’t even let my husband put his arm around me in public”.
Who can’t relate with that? smh
Amaranthine RBG
Psychobabble nonsense repeating itself to build a bridge across the chasm that is your ignorance so you can reach the conclusion you wan ton the other side.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
We should be able to. However, we need to cauterize the self-inflicted wounds by assholes who are on “our” side. Those who have decided they will drive a narrative no matter what damage happens.
Lyrebird
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Hm. I almost never ever disagree with you.
On this, though – how is going through an ethics investigation equal to “let’s forget this”? I’d rather him go through the official process, including possible penalties, then it’s all the easier to point and say, okay Trump Moore whoever – your turn!
It doesn’t help people who are being victimized to lump together consensual skeezing (Mr. Clinton), unknown levels of creeping/groping of adults (Minn Sen), and predation on teens. It just doesn’t.
Corner Stone
@Cacti: “It diminishes me!”
Oh. Well, you’re a voice we should absolutely listen to.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Corner Stone:
Well, hey, if you think that “not groping women against their will” is too high a standard, then I don’t know what to tell you. And it’s irrelevant anyway. This is coming. These women are going to be speaking out. And we as a party can choose to ignore them or call them liars or sluts or plants or anything else, but this is happening, and it’s only going to keep on speeding up. We’ve gone over some kind of threshold, and there isn’t any going back.
I think it’s worth doing the right thing because it’s the right thing. I think that’s a good enough reason. But it’s also the smart course to take. We aren’t going to be doing any favors for ourselves to fight this. We might as well fight the tide.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@debbie:
Thank you. I’m glad somebody does.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amaranthine RBG: experimenting with edibles tonight, Steve?
danielx
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Many wingnuts would have no problem with martial law or shooting demonstrators either one. Federalize the National Guard, send Alabama Guard units to Detroit…piece of cake.
Cacti
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
“Al Franken put his arm around me once in a photo.”
#MeToo
#survivor
Corner Stone
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): So pure. How does your keyboard sustain such an assault by such pure purity being transmitted through it? There’s no way you use voice translation software as only the angels could ever understand the purity of your voice.
frosty
@Immanentize:
Perhaps raven would be amenable if we called it a DAWG rescue!
Yarrow
@Cacti:
That was ridiculous. What’s she even doing trying to get a picture with a politician at a public event if she doesn’t like having people put their arms around her? Putting an arm around someone is a fairly standard thing for people to do when taking photos. How did she not anticipate that might happen? It’s not considered out of bounds or assault in any way. It’s just normal.
divF
@Lyrebird:
This.
Carolina Dave
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
So how’s Blake Farenthold doing these days? While purity Dems are circling the firing squad around Franken, the tax abomination is in conference.
OFFS, Sherrod Brown is against Franken.
rikyrah
@gene108:
The crazyfication factor ??
JR
@Lyrebird: I’m with you here. I think process is essential here.
One thing that concerns me about Gillibrand et al. coming out against Franken is that they might know that something more serious is coming down the pike. Maybe that’s just my paranoia speaking.
danielx
@Amaranthine RBG:
What the fuck are you talking about, speaking of psychobabble?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Carolina Dave:
Who cares? That’s their problem. Republicans don’t care about doing the right thing? Color me shocked. That’s what they do, not care about doing the right thing.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Can’t wait for him to get his Bobby Three Sticks subpoena
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Cacti:
Well, she feels like it was a lot more than that, and she didn’t like it. I believe her. He shouldn’t be doing shit like that. He knows better than that. He made his bed. I wish he hadn’t, but he did, and now we have to deal with it. As I said, this will hardly be the last, and I’d like to see us get good at handling this kind of thing, since we’re going to be doing it again sooner or later, and I’d bet on sooner.
frosty
@schrodingers_cat:
Nailed it! Although twice or thrice daily seems to be the frequency. I’m getting as weary of it as you’ve been, especially the violent fantasies. Some of these people have to either a) get a grip or b) step away from the computer/phone for a bit.
There will be no guillotines. There will be no tumbrels. There will be no pitchforks.
Mike J
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
And yeah, it’s unfair. It sucks. Republicans are worse. And they don’t give a shit. So, yeah, it’s all unfair. But it’s happening, and we aren’t about to make it go away by just wishing it weren’t happening.
Ladyraxterinok
@Jeffro: Firewall!
danielx
@frosty:
Not even one? And I worked SO hard on that letter to Santa, too.
different-church-lady
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
And we also aren’t going to make it go away by giving away the store.
Cacti
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Yes. Let’s all listen to the lady who feels “diminished” by physical contact with her marital partner.
She doesn’t sound out to lunch in the least.
El Caganer
@Yarrow: Ewww
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Cacti: O.K., so I don’t get this. You think that, what, exactly? Is it that if we think somebody might be a little off, then we shouldn’t listen to them when they tell us they got harassed? That seems like an awfully odd thing for a liberal to say, or a feminist.
I don’t care what she thinks about how she wants her husband to touch her in public. If she doesn’t want him to, then that’s A-O.K. with me. She didn’t want Franken to do what he did, but it happened too fast to stop it, and it upset her. That, to me, is the beginning and the end of the story right there. He never should have done that. Nobody should.
GregB
@Yarrow:
Fallon does some very good song parodies.
Interviews, not so much.
Peale
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): and? We aren’t pretending it isn’t happening. We’re pissed as hell about it because it means slaughter. So good for you.
Your side has suddenly decided that a precondition for the democrats to take back power is an end to sexual harassment, as defined now to include behaviors that a month ago weren’t. Given the long history of sexual harassment, we might as well be waiting for the sun to start
Rising in the West.
El Caganer
@tobie: I would be revolted if anybody squeezed my waste.
Cacti
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Yes, I’m saying that someone who believes an arm around them in a photo constitutes getting groped is coo coo for coco puffs.
Was I unclear? I’m sorry.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@different-church-lady: And who’s giving away the store here? We’ve been lucky so far, because the people this has come out about so far have been from safe seats. We should take these times to get this down, how we’re going to deal with this, because the next time, it might be a seat we can’t count on. I’d sooner we get this down to a science as soon as we can, because this is not going to end. Franken and Conyers are the first, not the last.
Does this suck? Yes. Would it be so much nicer and more wonderful all around if it weren’t happening? Yes. Are we all sad to be losing two important elected Democrats? Yes. But this is happening, and it is going to keep happening, and keep happening and then keep happening some more, until we have rooted out all the harassers and assaulters and worse from the party. I wish we’d dealt with this 20 years ago. Maybe if we had, a lot of these guys would have known better than to do this, the younger ones. But we didn’t, and it’s all coming out now, and there isn’t going to be any stopping it, and we’d fucking well better learn how to deal with it now, today, while we can, and get good at it. ’Cause this is how it’s going to be from here on out.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Cacti:
Well, all I can say is that it seems like your either abysmally ignorant of what happened or you’re ignoring what she said. She said he put his arm around her waist, grabbed a big hunk of her flesh and gave a good, hard squeeze. I can’t speak for anybody else, but when I put my arm around somebody, a friend or my sister or, well, anybody, I most emphatically do not take a big old handful of their flesh from their waste and squeeze it hard. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’d like to believe I’m not.
Cheryl Rofer
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You’ve written my post, so now I don’t have to.
I would add that this sort of mistreatment of women, at varying levels, and ignoring it in favor of men with power, and sometimes with not so much power, has been normalized for a very, very long time. Lots of men have it in their pasts. Others cast a blind eye. Women said nothing or actively colluded with the men. And it was just the way things were. To change the tense of one of Adam’s expressions, it was what it was.
I’d like to think it was never right. Certainly it never felt right to most women. But now it is seen not to be right. Are people being judged retroactively, by different standards than they understood themselves to be under when they did these things? Perhaps. The spoken standards were similar to todays: We respect women.
I’ve argued with young people who judge the past this way. But it never was right, and now we’re admitting it. As SDR(FMEA) points out, there will be more. The youngs won’t have it, and those of us who have had to deal with it are ready to condemn it along with them. The people who took advantage are now paying for that advantage.
Cacti
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
ZOMG
The horror.
Get me to the fainting couch.
Cheryl Rofer
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I’ll agree here too. I’ve been thinking all afternoon, as folks make excuses for this grabass during the photo. When I’ve snugged up for a photo, I have had concerns about some of the hands too “friendly” around my body. Grabbing a big handful of flesh sounds like that, or maybe worse.
Fair Economist
@JR:
It’s not paranoia.They might. If an accusation that is both serious and substantiated comes out, I’ll change my tune. But for now we have a bunch of groping allegations “supported” by pictures showing no groping, and an accusation that Franken held a woman by the waist during a picture.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Cacti:
So you’re telling me that if you think they’re stupid, or oversensitive, or crazy–or maybe just under the influence of those wacky old hormones; you know how womenfolk are–then it’s open season on them? Just have at them? I sure as hell hope you don’t have any women in your life.
Corner Stone
This fucking place.
Cacti
@Cheryl Rofer:
So now it’s morphed into an ass grab?
Fucking liar.
SFAW
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Assuming the quoting is accurate, she’s more-than-a-little “off.” And, that being the case, should be ignored.
You understand that there’s a continuum (for lack of a better term) on which people fall vis-a-vis acceptable physical contact from others. And, presumably, most people fall in the area of: casual contact — putting one’s arm around another’s shoulders or waist — is no big deal. Less desirable than having a loved one do so, but not a “call the cops!” moment. And that a wife who doesn’t like her husband — assuming they’re not in the midst of a fight or a nasty divorce — to touch her in public is, shall we say, not within two standard deviations of the mean.
And unless she’s wearing a big sign that says “Don’t fucking touch me! I can’t stand it when people touch me! Especially in public!!!” I would think most persons would assume that she’s closer to the mean. Well, except for all the telepaths roaming the streets, who would know without her needing a sign.
Ladyraxterinok
@Peale: GOP was in Arkansas several yrs before most people had heard of Bill, digging up anything they could find on him. See the horrific and enlighening book The Hunting of the President.
Didn’t 1 of the authors of that book work for the paper Jared bought?!
hitless
@divF: My opinion doesn’t matter, but it’s late and the internet and I agree. I think that process has two benefits:
1) if it is a Republican hit-job, it can be blunted by the investigation
2) if all the stories are true, having a process still would significantly blunt the potential backlash against #metoo movement
SFAW
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
You’re really going off the rails now. Might consider taking a few deep, cleansing breaths.
Corner Stone
And I thought The New Era of Civility ™ was difficult to get through.
This is war you simple maritime fucks.
Fair Economist
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
If, as is happening with Franken, people are required to resign for unsupported allegations and for ordinary non-sexual actions, there will be no Democrats left at all because Republicans will continue manufacturing fictitious allegations until they control every office in the country down to San Francisco dogcatchter.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You know, if what Sen. Franken is being accused of is entirely accurate and we demand a similar fate for every Democrat(since Republicans don’t give a shit); we won’t have any Democratic Senators. As madame said tonight, it’s a witch hunt.
Cacti
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I’m saying that an arm around someone in a photo is not and never will be a grope. If it was, she was also “groping” Franken, as her arm is draped over his shoulder in a familiar way in the “offending” photo.
I’m also saying that you are another virtue politics Democrat, addicted to losing, who can be relied upon to swallow the GOP ratfuck du jour hook, line, and sinker.
Corner Stone
@SFAW: How about if you don’t enjoy being touched you tell the person, “I’ll be here and you do you over there?”
Yarrow
@hitless: Agree. A process to deal with these allegations is essential because otherwise the movement will be hijacked and become meaningless. That will not benefit women because the MeToo movement will be destroyed.
Ladyraxterinok
@tobie: Was it Limbaugh Franken wrote his book about?
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
Isn’t “doing yourself” in public frowned upon? (Assuming it’s even physically possible.)
Corner Stone
@Yarrow:
I think we are rapidly approaching terminal velocity on this movement. It’s on the cover of Time and about to take Sen Franken out of office. Neither side is going to want to hear a damn thing about this issue pretty soon.
Amir Khalid
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Did the woman leave a gap between herself and Franken, so that he wouldn’t have to put his arm around her? Did she tell Franken, “Don’t put your arm on my waist”? I too am uncomfortable with that kind of close contact with a stranger, and it’s what I would have done. If she did and he disregarded her wishes, he was being rude; but it doesn’t rise to anywhere near the level of a sexual assault, and Franken should not be punished for it as if it did.
Corner Stone
@SFAW: Maybe. But I am still confused at how someone asks to snug up for a photo and does not expect to get an arm around them.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Cacti:
And it becomes a grope when the one putting his arm around the other grabs a big old handful of flesh and gives a nice, hard squeeze. That’s what she said happened. You don’t like it. I don’t either, but for different reasons, it seems. I don’t know what the hell he could have been thinking, but he had no fucking business doing it. I know I’m not going to carry the day here tonight, but thankfully, you clowns aren’t the ones whose voices really hold some weight here. It’s the 35-40, and counting, senators who have asked Franken to give up his seat. I expect he will, and I wish he didn’t have to, but this is how it is.
Peale
@Fair Economist: which is fine. Because the party will be too busy weeding out sexual misconduct to go about the business of holding office anyway. It’s a fairly large organization. There’s lots of people to examine. It doesn’t matter though. Congress seats are a dime a dozen so swapping out members isn’t a problem. If I remember right from the “Hillary took money from Weinstein” kerfuffle, such weeding is also going to be applied to donors, who will be very few given that most potential donors, even innocent ones, aren’t all keen about being subjected to checks into their personal lives that way.
Ladyraxterinok
@Cacti: How many media people do you think just don’t care about the consequences of a Trump era and are simply reveling in the opportunity to be 1st with a headline, true or not?
Cacti
By tomorrow, it will be “Al Franken didn’t actually touch me, but he eye molested me once.”
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
You know, this being-rational shit of yours has gotta go.
Cacti
@Ladyraxterinok:
Most.
GregB
Jeebers.
Erik Prince was an intern for Dana Rohrabacher.
Cue Adam’s penetration at all levels.
Corner Stone
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): They can’t make Franken go anywhere. Only a bunch of stupid fucks like you can try and force him out. I hope he says he isn’t going anywhere and then dares purity assholes like you to vote him out next go round.
Mike in Pasadena
@Citizen_X: If we make more Democrats resign, then Democrats will be pure, perfect, blameless, and the bestest-ever-purest party-out-of-power ever!
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid: I am not a big fan of being touched either. And I am also not a “star” fucker. But if I ask someone to take a second for a pic with me or me and my son, we get all tight and take a pic. I’m not grabbing ass but if they hook onto my belt loop, etc, for the length of a pic I am not weird about it.
SFAW
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Why stop at “grope”? Might as well call it “near rape.” I’ve never heard of grabbing someone’s waist as “near rape,” but then again, I’ve never heard “grope” used in that fashion, either.
On the other hand, I’m only in my 60s, and haven’t been to all seven continents, so I probably am just a dumbshit.
And I guess we should be glad that he didn’t pinch her cheek, it sounds like it’s that most dreaded offense, the “face grope.”
Corner Stone
@Mike in Pasadena: The more out of power we are the purer we will prove ourselves!
This is it! The final secret to success!
hueyplong
When only one side is playing to win, they win a lot.
NobodySpecial
@Mike J: It’s a fun little FPS. Only big problems I had with it we’re a lack of good servers in the Midwest and low population levels on the ones you could find that weren’t packed.
Mike in Pasadena
@Corner Stone: Gosh, even better, all of the Democratic House members and Senators could resign. That will show ’em! Or something.
SFAW
@Ladyraxterinok:
Obligatory Balloon Juice response: “All of ’em, Katie.”
Cacti
@hueyplong:
Republicans play to win elections.
Democrats play to win non-existent good sportsmanship awards.
Corner Stone
Purity ponies here *do* remember the Senate tax fuck bill that recently went through was 51 to 49, right?
Corner Stone
@Mike in Pasadena: I agree. To be truly pure, all D pols should resign and send their campaign dollars to an RNC fund. The newer, and fewer, the candidates the more pure we can be as a party.
Mike in Pasadena
@Jeffro: Where did this groupthink come from that Mueller’s team will just make everything public. What is the basis for this repeated assertion. Please tell us all: what proof is there for this statement?
SFAW
@Mike in Pasadena:
In Halberstam’s The Reckoning, about the rise and fall of Ford, and the rise of Nissan, he told of the time when the upper executives at Ford (one of whom was Robert McNamara, I think) were meeting to discuss various ways forward. One of the bean counters said that the company should close a significant number of plants, because they’d save a lot of money. One of the old-time car guys — not a bean counter, and had no love for them — piped up and said “Hey, why don’t we close ALL of the plants? That’ll REALLY save money!”
Unfortunately, some Dems would read that comment, think he was serious, and adopt a political variant as their operational philosophy.
Corner Stone
We are in a fucking war. And we’re fighting on 1 and a half fronts at this point, apparently. I don’t know how many more Gillibrands we need but my money goes to “none”.
Cacti
@Corner Stone:
I came when I thought about how hard that would heighten the contradictions.
mouse tolliver
@Cacti: That already happened. One of the anonymous accusations is someone noticed him looking at boobs.
Do we really want our politicians to be bloodless replicants like Mike Pence?
NobodySpecial
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): It’s rather tiring seeing people lose their shit over Al Franken like he was the next Obama. Nice guy, sure. Second coming of liberalism? Unlikely.
Clearly, he did dumb shit when he was a comedian (and well before he ever considered becoming a Senator, and way before anyone else took the idea of him being a Senator as a real thing), and the rules changed on him like they did everyone else. Sucks, but at least his reliable Democratic vote will be replaced with another reliable Democratic vote, and our base of women and the disempowered will not change because he’s gone.
eemom
@Cacti:
Sounds like it was written by Mike Pence.
Corner Stone
@NobodySpecial: I’ll gather more wood for the fire if you’ll continue to tell us stories, Grandpa.
SFAW
@eemom:
Does Mother know about Dense’s husband? Might come as a surprise to her.
Mary G
I’m with Dahlia Lithwick, one of the few good things on Slate: The Uneven Playing Fieldhttp://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/12/the_republicans_have_built_an_uneven_playing_field_of_morality.html
and
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
Campfire? Or for a pyre for Franken?
Zelma
I did not read the Atlantic piece until it was mentioned here that Franken’s offense was to put his arm around the author’s waist (when she asked for a picture) and squeezed her twice. And that was the sum of his evil behavior. And for this she gets to write an article for a major publication calling for him to resign from the Senate. How many times has every politician been asked for a picture, graciously agreed, and put his arm around the person who asked? This is sexual assault? No, this is ridiculous. There is sexual harassment and there is sexual assault. Both are unacceptable. This is neither. I admit that I have not followed the nature of the accusations against Franken closely and it is possible that some of them are more serious than this particular instance. I am certainly suspicious of the motives of the original accuser. But in this case, I am don’t see that Senator Franken’s actions warrant the punishment that has been called for. And I think the Atlantic was irresponsible in publishing this article.
SFAW
@Mary G:
Thanks for posting that.
Fair Economist
Maybe next they’ll accuse Franken of groping women “in his heart”. At least then the “supporting” pictures won’t refute it.
Yarrow
@SFAW: Probably not a surprise.
Ladyraxterinok
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You talk as if dems were solely responsible for the attitudes 20 yrs ago. IT WAS A GIVEN IN THE WHOLE SOCIETY OF THE TIME. And women felt they had no choice but not to speak up.
Remember what happened to Anita Hill and DIDN’T happen to Thomas.
And don’t forget Biden’s seeming indifference to the whole matter in his position as chairmsn of the committee.
Most of the NPR reporters on the hearing were women.
Several remarked that the presence of women radically affected the coverage. And compared the publicity to the coverup of JFK’s ‘adventures’ by the ‘good ole boy’ reporters of his era. There were no women in the ‘boy’s club’ of politicians and journalists of the era.
And several women ran for senate as a result of the hearing.
Peale
@mouse tolliver: if we do go the “more fundamentalist than those hypocritical Christians route” can we at least ask those calling for cullings and weedings to adopt the capacity for forgiveness?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NobodySpecial: If you think this will end with Sen Franken leaving, you’re not thinking this through enough. They will go after another Dem Senator. The only way to stop this is to go though a defined process(the ethics committee).
NobodySpecial
@Corner Stone: Let me tell you about how for the last four years BJ regulars have been telling everyone that in the end, what you want are reliable Democratic votes, and if you get them from the likes of Joe Manchin, Blanche Lincoln, and Jon Tester, that’s by god good enough.
Franken isn’t the 51st vote, so he’s not any more important than any other D vote, and arguably less because he’ll be replaced with a D vote, unlike guys like Manchin. Stop being a drama whore. As the guy who Stuck used to claim was your sock puppet, you’re dragging my rep down with you.
Fair Economist
@Zelma:
“Irresponsible” is much too mild. Any reporter knows this is a non-story. Even the conservatives are making fun of this accusation. This was malicious – to Franken, to #MeToo, and maybe to both.
eemom
When I take photos with my DAUGHTER, she sometimes snarls that I’m squeezing her waist too much.
So I guess I’m a pedophile — or would be if she weren’t 23 years old now.
mouse tolliver
@NobodySpecial: Except Al Franken was more than just a Democratic vote. He’s the reason Sessions had to recuse himself and we now have the Meuller investigation.
SFAW
@NobodySpecial:
No, you seem to be doing just fine without Corner Stone’s help.
B.B.A.
@Fair Economist: The accuser wrote the piece herself.
My guess, for the two of you who haven’t pied me, is that Franken is sick of all the bullshit and decided to resign after this morning’s Politico piece, and warned the caucus so they could score some feminist points today before he makes the announcement tomorrow. That’s what I’d do if I were him (and I thank my lucky stars I’m not).
Cacti
@NobodySpecial:
You forgot: And respect our women, bitch!
eemom
@Corner Stone:
With apologies to different church lady if she’s still around, I got a reality check today on FB of all places. Quite simply, there is nobody in their right mind who is not horrified by the shitshow that Gillibrand et al pulled today.
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Unrelated: how are things out your way? Are you an evacuee? (I have no idea where you are relative tot eh fires — my geographical “knowledge” of CA is limited to “SF north, LA south, San Diego REALLY south, Morro Rock somewhere in the middle” Anyway, I hope everything’s OK.
Corner Stone
@NobodySpecial: This is incoherent. Franken is not the lynchpin of the Senate. But he is certainly more important to “leftist” ideas and ideals than a similarly placed D Senator. They are coming after him for a reason. He’s not a generic D. He trashed Limbaugh and O’Reilly and Sessions and the upcoming FCC vote. Don’t act like you don’t know his name and Tammy Smith (D-MN) was going to have the same impact he has had. Ask Minnesotans what Klobuchar has done.
NobodySpecial
@Cacti: Don’t you have any more conspiracy theories to peddle about Gillibrand being a deep plant mole of the GOP?
Corner Stone
@B.B.A.:
WIN!!!
Mike in Pasadena
@tobie: Preach it!
danielx
@Mary G:
True. The logical end of demanding purity above all (over one thing or another) from Democratic senators and representatives is….no elected Democratic representation. Republicans have their forms of purity tests (just ask Mark Meadows), but they never lose sight of their ultimate objectives. Which they are well on their way to achieving, be it noted. They don’t give a flying fuck about process or norms, they want to win.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SFAW: Thanks for the thoughts, we’re fine here. The closest fire(the one in the northeast Valley) is about 10 miles away as the crow flies.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@NobodySpecial: Gillibrand isn’t a deep cover mole just a useful idiot.
SFAW
@B.B.A.:
Actually, it was because McConnell said he (Franken) should resign, and Franken said “Gee, if Mitch is saying that a pedophile would be OK in the Senate, but I’m not, then I must REALLY be BAD!”
But thank fucking god that we can maintain our purity as a Party
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
OK, glad to hear you’re OK. (Which I kind of assumed, since if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be posting here. But still ….)
NobodySpecial
@Corner Stone: Most unconnected people know his name from SNL. Period. I speak with a great deal of confidence that D voters in Minnesota are going to continue to vote D despite Franken being gone. People of color and women are not going to desert over this, and many will have forgotten by the next election cycle.
Color me also unimpressed by the arguments about weaponization. They didn’t manage it after Weiner’s Weiner troubles, and that was in a much more favorable news cycle for them. Plus, you know, they have a lot more creepy old white men on their side of the aisle. People need to stop losing their shit on GOP command.
With that, have a good night!
Mike in Pasadena
@Peale: And it worked, beautifully.
Cacti
@NobodySpecial:
I just hate it when bitch ass drama whores don’t show women the proper respect.
Don’t you, brah?
TenguPhule
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): If you want Franken to resign based on Republican allegations and unsourced ratfuckers, you might as well slit your wrists now and save the Fascist Death Squads the trouble.
TenguPhule
Republicans will accuse half of the Democrats of sexual harassment and the other half will gladly shoot them in the back.
TenguPhule
@NobodySpecial:
You want to replace the commanding Admiral at the battle of Midway with a fucking ensign right out the academy.
Our Senators are not interchangable cogs.
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
I was thinking more along the lines of replacing Grant with McClellan, but yours is better.
Mike in Pasadena
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I haven’t seen anyone here calling the accusers liars, or sluts, or whatever. What I’ve seen are people saying that Sen. Franken requested an ethics investigation so that the self-identified and anon accusers could tell their stories and he could tell his. If there is no process, then all Republicans need to do is accuse and then Democrats must automatically resign. But your willingness to mischaracterize what others have said makes it much easier to come to your conclusions. Question: if a woman accuses Senator Feinstein of touching said woman, then must DiFi immediately resign? Stands to reason.
Corner Stone
@NobodySpecial: You’re not really making a very powerful or even coherent argument for Franken resigning.
Mike in Pasadena
@Mike J: Wow, that’s real comfort, isn’t it. They’ll review future contributions. What a relief. Meaningless corporate pr bullshit.
Mary G
And let’s not forget that the Franken winning margin over Norm Coleman in 2008 was razor thin, and the Midwest is trending redder every year.
@B.B.A.: I hope he resigns from the party, becomes an independent like Wilmer, and spends 24/7 on cable and the Sunday shows representing the NFLTG real progressive pundit this country sorely needs.
TenguPhule
@B.B.A.:
I give Franken more credit then having to be declared guilty by water trial.
TenguPhule
@NobodySpecial:
Funny, that’s what they said in 2010 too.
How did that work out for us again?
Mike in Pasadena
@Cheryl Rofer: I agree with you completely. For far too long, men of all stripes got away with forcing themselves on women. It wasn’t right then and it isn’t right now. I’m glad women are speaking up. It’s sad that the system, or whatever one might call what went on for centuries in many societies, made it impossible for women to come forward without being shamed or losing their jobs or their careers or even their lives. It took me a long time to understand why rape victims did not report to the police, supervisors, etc. However, by listening to many women explain why, I now have some small understanding why they didn’t. Much of the same logic applies to the harassment situation. Even all of that history does not justify exercising summary judgment on a Senator who asked for an ethics investigation.
Mike in Pasadena
@Doug R:
“There won’t be millions of protesters killed because after the first few thousand, it’ll look like Libya. Not how much of the armed forces would back trump up either, especially on the left coast.”
The second sentence isn’t coherent as written, but I think you were saying that not much of the armed forces would back up Trump. You could not be more wrong. The military is completely in the bag for Trump. That goes for the military on the “left coast” as well. Try asking some actual military personnel. They will tell you, every single man and woman in uniform will tell you that they support Trump, their Commander-in-Chief, with fervor.
Vhh
@J R in WV: It’s Eastern Kentucky, poorest place in the US, where people vote to live in misery because it’s God’s will. No way the vote in a gay man.
Vhh
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Unlike any of the wingnut abusers, Franken asked for an ethics investigation. The accusers get their say–but may have any “inducements” revealed. It’s called due process. Seems fair to me.
Helena Montana
raven
I really appreciate all the input abut the Rose Bowl. I have been once so that get scratched off the list. Bedside the $ for the two of us to go there is the matter of the pups. I HATE leaving them, especially since Lil But requires so much daily care. I know it’s dumb but. . .
SFAW
@raven:
No, it’s NOT dumb — it’s completely understandable and reasonable. (I mean that sincerely, not being ironic, snarky, etc.)
Tata
We need Franken right where he is. It’s important to differentiate between a smart guy who occasionally does something stupid like Franken, a run-of-the-mill creep like Weiner and monsters like Moore and Trump. They’re not the same and shouldn’t be treated the same way. We really need to get past the idea that the monsters get passes and the smart guy who occasionally does something stupid must be banished from our midst.