Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

We will not go back.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

You are here: Home / I Wanna Get Freaky With You

I Wanna Get Freaky With You

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When we last discussed GOP Rep. Trent Franks, he was announcing his his retirement on 31 January for the following:

I have recently learned that the Ethics Committee is reviewing an inquiry regarding my discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates, making each feel uncomfortable. I deeply regret that my discussion of this option and process in the workplace caused distress.

We are in an unusual moment in history – there is collective focus on a very important problem of justice and sexual impropriety. It is so important that we get this right for everyone, especially for victims.

But in the midst of this current cultural and media climate, I am deeply convinced I would be unable to complete a fair House Ethics investigation before distorted and sensationalized versions of this story would put me, my family, my staff, and my noble colleagues in the House of Representatives through hyperbolized public excoriation. Rather than allow a sensationalized trial by media damage those things I love most, this morning I notified House leadership that I will be leaving Congress as of January 31st, 2018. It is with the greatest sadness, that for the sake of the causes I deeply love, I must now step back from the battle I have spent over three decades fighting. I hope my resignation will remain distinct from the great gains we have made. My time in Congress serving my constituents, America and the Constitution is and will remain one of God’s greatest gift to me in life.

Today we learn his resignation is taking place immediately. Wonder why? Oh:

Arizona Rep. Trent Franks allegedly made unwanted advances toward female staffers in his office and retaliated against one who rebuffed him, according to House GOP sources with knowledge of a complaint against him.

The allegations, which reached Speaker Paul Ryan and top GOP leaders in recent days, led to Franks’ sudden resignation this week. Franks originally announced that he would resign on Jan. 31, 2018. But just hours after POLITICO inquired about the allegations, he sped up his resignation and left office Friday.

The sources said Franks approached two female staffers about acting as a potential surrogate for him and his wife, who has struggled with fertility issues for years. But the aides were concerned that Franks was asking to have sexual relations with them. It was not clear to the women whether he was asking about impregnating the women through sexual intercourse or in vitro fertilization. Franks opposes abortion rights as well as procedures that discard embryos.

A former staffer also alleged that Franks tried to persuade a female aide that they were in love by having her read an article that described how a person knows they’re in love with someone, the sources said. One woman believed she was the subject of retribution after rebuffing Franks. While she enjoyed access to the congressman before the incident, that access was revoked afterward, she told Republican leaders.

Life comes at you fast.

Reader Interactions

271Comments

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    The congressman also said his wife had been admitted to the hospital “due to an ongoing ailment.”

    Is “married to Trent Franks” considered a preexisting condition?

  5. 5.

    sharl

    I suspect the excerpts will suffice for most folks, but for those wanting a link to the second blockquote from Politico – I didn’t see it in the O.P. – here it is.
    Freaky-deaky, as some TV comedian (Dennis Miller on SNL?) used to say.

    ETA – I’ve long wondered – though not intensively enough to look it up myself – why these self-described christians don’t consider the inability to get pregnant and bear children the “will of God”, and just accept that, rather than going for surrogacy, IVF, etc. I assume there are answers to this on p.4 of numerous church newsletters, at least for those churches catering to prosperous folks. I assume this is a poorly funded way for people with English Lit degrees to get some practice at least.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    @Quinerly: A quick Google found this:

    Every surrogacy case is unique and involves factors that can impact the overall fees and price. The average cost of surrogacy can range from $90,000 to $130,000 depending on the individual arrangements. In states like California, where surrogates are in high demand, the cost may be slightly higher.

    So, either Mr. Franks is a Deal Maker even more skilled at his craft than Trump, or there’s rather more going on here.

  10. 10.

    Hoodie

    Gotta hand it to him, it’s a novel way for a forced birther who wants to play around while salving his conscience- “it’s ok, honey, she was just a surrogate mom so we can bring a wonderful child into the world. Not buying that? At least we didn’t use contraceptives!”

  12. 12.

    sharl

    @sharl: P.S. The “English Lit” should be replaced with “creative writing”, and the sentence reworked appropriately.
    I regret the error.

  13. 13.

    SteveKnNKY

    BC I’m still on endless conference calls… in a poor, fed up need to vent mood… i went to the lowest low and stretched my imagination…
    I came up with this:
    It is very plausible that Franks surrogacy discussions were plagiarized/crib-noted speeches from M. Atwood’s The Handmaids Tale. As a “powerful” political figure obsessed with abortion, a dozen donuts says he is morally opposed to artificial insemination over what we could term “natural conception.”
    Although this is just like placing your hand on Tina Dupuy’s waist.

  20. 20.

    The Moar You Know

    All areas are contestable, if the Republicans keep nominating pedophiles.

    @Major Major Major Major: All areas are contestable regardless.

    Winnable is different, and Alabama is about to prove it by putting a pedophile into the US Senate.

  21. 21.

    sukabi

    Frank’s statement sounds like he had Frank Luntz focus group test it…it’s stripped entirely of anything that would remotely suggest Franks was being a creepy sexual harrasser…

  22. 22.

    No Drought No More

    What choice did he have but to fuck the help? It’s not as if the Franks’ were in a position to adopt.

    His wife looks like a fool for playing along with this transparent bullshit.

  24. 24.

    Quinerly

    Plot thickens. He’s 60, still married to only wife, she appears to be age appropriate? and they have two children. No wonder there are fertility problems….I’m pretty sure she is post menopausal. I actually can’t believe I’m typing this on a political blog.

  26. 26.

    FlipYrWhig

    @sukabi: @Mnemosyne: I noticed that. Whereas the article that got Franken brought down was carefully written and headlined to imply that the groped “handful of flesh” in question was someplace other than the waist.

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    @Quinerly:

    I actually can’t believe I’m typing this on a political blog.

    I can’t believe that this doesn’t even surprise us anymore.

  29. 29.

    Brachiator

    The sources said Franks approached two female staffers about acting as a potential surrogate for him and his wife, who has struggled with fertility issues for years. But the aides were concerned that Franks was asking to have sexual relations with them. It was not clear to the women whether he was asking about impregnating the women through sexual intercourse or in vitro fertilization. Franks opposes abortion rights as well as procedures that discard embryos.

    This is all kinds of crazy jammed into a small space.

    I wasn’t sure whether this goober was just talking about surrogacy with women staffers or trying to get them to go along. But I’m also not clear where these family values types stand on surrogacy. Isn’t the Catholic Church, which even some Protestant evangelicals side with, cool to artificial means of having babies?

    Also, apart from the issues of possibly coercing a staffer to be your baby momma once removed, it would be triple double insane to insist that this person must carry all the embryos that might develop. It aggravates the situation by diminishing the woman into a baby receptacle. It’s one thing for a married couple to behave so stupidly, but a new level of depravity to involve an outside party to this by coercive means.

    The Hand Maid’s Tale ain’t got nuthin’ on this shit.

    ETA: This baroque shit again points out how the Franken mess was over-reaction. Yes, your outrage mileage may vary.

  31. 31.

    Quinerly

    A quick look at his Wiki page also tells me he is one of those guys who think pregnancy from a rape is very, very rare. I guess if a baby was the end goal, his female staff could find comfort in this.??

  35. 35.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    Isn’t the Catholic Church, which even some Protestant evangelicals side with, cool to artificial means of having babies?

    Yes, but he objects to the leftover fertilized embryos which are usually disposed of.

  36. 36.

    trollhattan

    @SteveKnNKY: @Mnemosyne:
    I’m REALLY having problems accepting Ms. Dupuy’s complaint at face value, even if wanting to..

    One of the women who accused Minnesota Senator Al Franken of sexual harassment leveled more criticism on the “defiant” lawmaker on Friday after he announced his resignation and dismissed many of the claims against him.

    “Well, I thought that he said to listen to women, and then he talked about himself,” she said. “It wasn’t an apology. It was very defiant.”

    Dupuy told CNN’s Alisyn Camerota that Franken’s speech and the venue where he delivered it were inappropriate.

    “He wanted to talk about the pain that he was going through, which was obvious, but not the pain that he has inflicted, and I thought that was inappropriate to do that from the Senate floor, quite candidly,” Dupuy said.

    Franken directed a part of his speech to allegations against President Donald Trump and Alabama Senate hopeful Roy Moore.

    “I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party,” he said.

    Dupuy had a different take. “That’s not irony,” she said. “That’s one party being better on women than the other party.”

    To sum up: not leaving fast enough, should have delivered speech from Walmart parking lot, boff sides. Who exactly is this person?

  37. 37.

    sukabi

    @Quinerly: well if she is “age appropriate” and is post menopausal with 2 children, then the odds that Franks was actually looking for a “surrogate” to bear a child are slim to none. He was just twisting his need to get f^cked into a pity f^ck…and chances are his wife didn’t know a thing about it until news broke..

  38. 38.

    Jager

    @TenguPhule:

    Oil supposedly, from a company he and his brother founded in 1997 when he was in congress. A friend of mine from Phoenix says Franks showed up in Arizona driving a beater car with expired out of state license plates in the early 80’s. (he was ticketed it for it) He was still driving it when he was elected to the legislature in AZ.

  39. 39.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    It’s unfortunate that Franks is similar to Franken. Lots of apolitical drones are going to conflate the two.

  40. 40.

    Chet Murthy

    @TenguPhule: I once read that the genealogical evidence was that most of English were descended from nobility … via their female servants. I read similar things about the Roman empire (and their female slaves). It isn’t surprising at all, in a way, that this shit still transpires.

    The -surprising- thing, is that *FINALLY* women have enough power, that they’re bringing this to light. As in: “light the shit on fire, yo!” Oh, and they’re all outta fucks to give, of course.

  41. 41.

    Quinerly

    @aimai: Why the emphasis on infertility? Wiki lists only one wife and they already have 2 children. Wife appears to be close to 60. I don’t have time to fully research this…someone please take over.?

  43. 43.

    Millard Filmore

    @aimai:

    Why not adopt?

    I have never understood the morality of a culture that will fight birth control, fight abortions, fight like demons to bring babies into the world, but won’t take care of the kids that are already here.

  46. 46.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @trollhattan:

    Dupuy had a different take. “That’s not irony,” she said. “That’s one party being better on women than the other party.”

    Ah, but who is still in the White House at the end of the day, Dupey?

    Rose: Doctor, they’ve got guns.
    The Doctor: And I don’t. And that makes me the better person, don’t you think? [insufferably cheerful] They can shoot me dead, but the moral high ground is mine!
    — Doctor Who, “Army of Ghosts”

  48. 48.

    Quinerly

    Ok, he and his immigrant wife have been married since 1980. They used a surrogate in 2008 to have twins. Donor egg.

  51. 51.

    eyelessgame

    So from Wikipedia, having wondered myself ‘so how did he get $5M to throw around?’ I read…

    “Franks graduated from Briggsdale High School in Colorado in 1976. After high school, Franks bought a drilling rig and moved to Texas to drill wells with his best friend and his younger brother. He moved to Arizona in 1981, where he continued to drill wells.”

    It goes on to say he got a degree from some Bob’s-University-And-Grill joint in Utah. He also told some zine in 2004 that he’d been a small-business owner ‘for 25 years’.

    The very next sentence says that in 1984 he was “working as an engineer for an oil and gas royalty-purchasing firm”. So I have questions about this – but anyway, he presumably got his money by drilling for oil.

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    @trollhattan:

    Who exactly is this person?

    This question should have been asked 8 times by the Democratic Caucus.

    That it was not was a failure of leadership and common sense.

  53. 53.

    SteveKnNKY

    @Brachiator:
    The Church isn’t cool with artificial insemination. Especially not cool with all the “snowflake babies” stored in liquid nitrogen in medical office buildings in every decent sized city.
    For 5 million, Franks wanted a gilly. A quiet long-term mistress. A concubine.

  59. 59.

    bystander

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    @Hoodie: That’s not how surrogacy works. I realize we may not be in normal territory, but normally, there’s no sexual contact between the father and a surrogate mother.

    And you obviously have never checked into the Trent Franks Surrogacy Clinic.

    I’m loving the FNYT story about Russian intelligence agents contacting Hope Hicks after the election. This proves there was NO COLLUSION! Uh, no, it proves some trumpleton gave the Russians her phone number so they could compromise her, too.

    Also, I’m sure Jared never discussed any of this with Ivunka.

  60. 60.

    Mnemosyne

    @bystander:

    Also, I’m sure Jared never discussed any of this with Ivunka.

    Sadly, they have spousal privilege and can’t be forced to testify against one another. Though IANAL, so I don’t know if that’s true for federal crimes.

  61. 61.

    Roger Moore

    @TenguPhule:

    So he offered 1/6th of his net value to a woman to be a surrogate?

    I smell bullshit coming from this guy.

    I somehow doubt he put it in writing.

  62. 62.

    ThresherK

    @aimai: I’m going beyond that: Raids on all sperm banks within 50 miles of his home to see if a Frent Tranks has made deposits.

    My wife and I are not the kid-having sort (gawd knows I wasn’t put on this planet to raise something that couldn’t find the litterbox all by itself), but my younger sister has, in getting older, mentioned running across a number of guys who are interested in having a child–no surprise–and many, many of them don’t want to adopt.

    They think their line, their DNA, needs to live on, or it doesn’t count.

  63. 63.

    Brachiator

    @trollhattan:

    You jackals know damn well you want to read the Wonkette treatment of Trent Franks, a.k.a. “Captain Horatio Spermblower.” So go, already.

    Wow.

    Thanks to Politico’s reporting, we’re now pretty confident that particular “natural” method of surrogacy involved P-in-V instead of IVF or a t.u.r.k.e.y. b.a.s.t.e.r.

    And

    A former aide to Republican Rep. Trent Franks has told The Associated Press the congressman repeatedly pressed her to carry his child, at one point offering her $5 million to act as a surrogate […]

    The former staffer said the congressman asked at least four times if she’d be willing to act as a surrogate in exchange for money.

    How do these Congressional goobers have any time left to, you know, do their jobs as elected representatives?

  65. 65.

    Yarrow

    @aimai:

    Why the emphasis on surrogacy? Why not adopt?

    I’m not defending this creep at all, but he did say in his statement yesterday that they had several adoptions fall through. I know that happens (know people it has happened to).

  66. 66.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    How do these Congressional goobers have any time left to, you know, do their jobs as elected representatives?

    I suspect that Rep Franks is very representative of his part of Arizona. That’s what’s so scary about these people. As far as reading legislation and doing the work one normally expects a legislator to do, the available evidence suggests the Republicans just don’t bother. They vote the party line and that’s it.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    @trollhattan:

    Yeah. She wrote a long article about how her experience of having her waist squeezed by Franken gave her a new appreciation for how awful the Democratic Party is for tolerating Bill Clinton, so of course the Atlantic leaped to publish it.

    I’m sorry, but if you’re so traumatized by your past experiences that having your waist squeezed during a photo op sends you into a spiral of PTSD, you really need to let your therapist know that you’re having trouble with everyday life and will need to bump up your therapy, not write articles about how this horrible, scarring experience of a waist squeeze changed your life.

  69. 69.

    Quinerly

    @Yarrow: I’m beginning to feel sorry for Franks’ immigrant wife. She has now been hospitalized and their 28 year old twins are probably by her side.

  71. 71.

    bystander

    @Mnemosyne: If they think she’s involved, they can still interrogate her about a lot more than conversations with Jared. There’s no parental privilege.

    I notice Rachel Maddow hammers away at how many times Penice has lied publicly about the Flynn matters, implying his involvement. Why not Ivunka, too?

  75. 75.

    Mike J

    @Yarrow:

    he did say in his statement yesterday that they had several adoptions fall through. I know that happens (know people it has happened to).

    The man is 60 years old. What are the odds of him living to the child’s high school graduation? You’d have to be nuts to let him adopt a kid.

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    @Mnemosyne:
    I keep returning to the “…he knew exactly what he was doing” line in her The Atlantic article. It changes the piece’s tone from questioning to an accusatory conclusion. While that’s her right it’s also telling the reader what to think. “You can’t trust him, trust me.”

  79. 79.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan: . I think it’s safe to say at lest one of the Franken’s accusers is Attention Whoring. Dupury is the rape by waist hug victim, right?

  80. 80.

    Miss Bianca

    @trollhattan:

    Also, we hear the staffers weren’t willing to be renamed “Oftrent.”

    OK, this line gave me an actual LOL to end this shitty, shitty week. Thanks for the tip!

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Quinerly:

    I’m beginning to feel sorry for Franks’ immigrant wife. She has now been hospitalized and their 28 year old twins are probably by her side.

    According to Wikipedia, twins are only about nine, not 28. They were conceived and gestated through donor eggs and surrogacy:

    Franks’ wife, Josephine, is an immigrant.[77] In August 2008, a donor egg and surrogate were used to give birth to their twins, Joshua Lane and Emily Grace.[78][79][80][81]

    None of which negates our feeling sorry for her.

  82. 82.

    mike in dc

    @bystander:
    Her position in the administration is less important, and her deceit is less prominent. That said, her brothers are Sonny and Fredo(or both Fredo), and she’s Michael Corleone.

  83. 83.

    Mnemosyne

    @trollhattan:

    That’s where it gets weird. I’m sure that Franken knew he was squeezing her waist — it’s kind of hard not to realize that. However, I’m guessing he was doing it in a friendly, avuncular way, and she perceived that as sexual and harassing.

    That’s why he can’t come out and call her a liar. The problem is dueling perceptions of the same action. If someone perceives a touch on the waist as being sexual when the person who did the touching did not mean it that way, where does the truth lie?

  85. 85.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Richard M. Nixon‏ @ dick_nixon
    Maybe Franks actually got one of them pregnant.

    just skimming the thread– did one of his ex “staffers” publicize the abortion records yet?

  88. 88.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @trollhattan: Dupuy told CNN’s Alisyn Camerota that Franken’s speech and the venue where he delivered it were inappropriate.
    “He wanted to talk about the pain that he was going through, which was obvious, but not the pain that he has inflicted, and I thought that was inappropriate to do that from the Senate floor, quite candidly,” Dupuy said.

    this one’s a wrecking crew all by herself

  89. 89.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule: Gods, idiots like her.. I mean she just turned harassment into a farce, picture the “I’ve been waist hugged!” mem pictures from 4/chan, No wonder this problem keeps going and going, And she is such a self righteous prig about it.

  91. 91.

    TenguPhule

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: It gets worse.

    Apparently the reason she was so mad at him for touching her is that she was overweight at the time and supposedly ashamed of her extra belly fat.

    And this somehow translates into groping.

    /SMH

  92. 92.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: via that same dead president’s twitter account…

    Franks has also been involved in the founding of a crisis pregnancy center in Tempe, Arizona, that’s still in operation today.[59] In the past, Franks has picketed abortion clinics but has ceased to do so stating in a June 2013 interview that “It became clear to me that I could be more effective by trying to do something to light a candle rather than curse the darkness.“[59]

    I think that might be a clue

    ETA: @MomSense: MSNBC was on my car radio when I got in a while ago, when I heard Chuck Todd’s very leading “Should Barack Obama have been here?” his tone clearly implying whose fault Senator Moore will be. I switched it off but I hope somebody had a dead flounder handy to go upside his head with

  93. 93.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Mnemosyne:

    where does the truth lie?

    Comonly accepted social norms?

    The inverse is if Franken didn’t hug consituates he would have been considered cold and indiferant to them.

    Jesus on a pogo stick, are we really discussing a waist hugs like it is rape?

  94. 94.

    trollhattan

    @Mnemosyne:
    Yeah, I don’t think it’s invented from thin air and over the intervening almost nine years her recollection has understandably morphed, but amongst the frenzy of the first Obama Inauguration this is her takeaway recollection?

    At the time Franken’s recount was just underway so I can well imagine the blender of emotions he was experiencing it all, including the swearings in of his maybe yes/maybe no future colleagues.

  95. 95.

    Yarrow

    @Mike J: From his statement I didn’t get the impression that the adoptions that fell through were now or even in the past few years. They were earlier on.

    Has it been made clear when he propositioned/asked the staffers to be surrogates? Was that just this year or in the past few years? If so, assisting with surrogacy for intended parents of that age is pretty much out of the norm for fertility clinics. Depends on how old his wife is, but they generally don’t support allowing intended parents to be over about 52 or so. There isn’t a federal upper age limit for fertility treatments, as there is in many countries, so the clinics tend to set it themselves.

    If it happened a decade or two ago, it’s still just as inappropriate, but more in the age-range that would be acceptable.

  97. 97.

    Duane

    @sukabi: That wanna make a baby together line is older than Franks. Hes so full of crap, we should call him Septic Tank Franks.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    How do these Congressional goobers have any time left to, you know, do their jobs as elected representatives?

    Have you seen what they’ve done? And you want to tell me they spent any time on that? IOW doing their jobs is not one of the concepts they enjoy.

  101. 101.

    Quinerly

    @SiubhanDuinne: I need to quit trying to post from this damn Microsoft Windows phone. It hangs up on this site…and on this site only. I had read his Wiki page earlier and remembered the 1980 marriage but had the birth year of the twins wrong in my mind. Once typed from this phone, I can never edit. I do feel very sorry for his wife. There’s a lot to this story that we don’t know. She is in the hospital. MSNBC reporting.

  102. 102.

    JMG

    Here’a one for covering your bases. The polling firm Survey Monkey polled Alabama. They used eight different voter models on the poll and came up with results ranging from Jones by eight to Moore by 10. One of the models is bound to be right!

  103. 103.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    Can we all agree that Gloria Allred is a fucking idiot? I mean, Jesus Christ – the moment she had the first hint of a nascent thought that any writing on that page was bad, she should have turned that woman away.

    Her grandstanding cost us Franken, and probably sealed the win for Moore.

  104. 104.

    Mnemosyne

    @MomSense:

    Yep. And the fact that Franken resigned over waist hugs and anonymous accusations means that he must have been doing even worse stuff and that’s why the Democrats forced him to resign.

    I hate people. I’m definitely spending the evening reading escapist novels.

  106. 106.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule: This is startig to get that suprned lover vibe to it, isn’t it? Sort of the female version of the Dude bro’s “she only turned me down because she’s lezbo” stick. “He didn’t say no, he was harassing me and I said no” if you will.

    Still there were other accusers, but it’s lovely that the crazy cat lady in the group has to make it about her.

  107. 107.

    Yarrow

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: From the brief time I looked at that yearbook signature the date and location looked to be in a different handwriting. If it stood out to me just by glancing at it, I wonder why it didn’t look that way to someone on Allred’s team.

    I haven’t read anything about it today, but did the woman say she wrote it in at the time or now? I haven’t looked back at the photo but it did kind of look like a younger person’s handwriting. If she wrote it at the time, she should have disclosed that at the time to Allred and made it clear in the press conference. If not, well…

  109. 109.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: @Mnemosyne: I really fucking wish Democrats would grow a spine, stand up for people where it’s clear ratfucking is going on, and tell the rightwing trolls to fuck off. The internet had Sam Seder’s back, there was a big backlash because MSNBC misinterpreted his tweet, and he got his job back. I’d love to see something like that happen with Franken.

  110. 110.

    different-church-lady

    my discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates

    Christ almighty Dude, BOUNDARIES.

  112. 112.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne:

    I hate people, too. I want to go see Ladybird.

    @Yarrow:

    This is what kisses me off. As of Wednesday night, Franken was correcting the reports that he planned to announce his resignation. I bet Schumer leaked it to the press sealing Franken’s fate. I’m so fucking mad at all the Democrats who called for this.

    Like I said on the morning thread, if you’ve been around social justice work for decades, you recognize when Republican operatives are out to take down their opposition and discredit a movement.

  113. 113.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Yarrow:

    Exactly. It was data that would never, ever be included in that kind of note.

    The target didn’t get taken out, the wrong guys got jammed, and now the backlash will be like the white hot heat of a thousand suns.

  116. 116.

    Duane

    @Yarrow: Frank’s initial statement was the biggest bunch of gobbledygook that could possibly be. No way he wrote it. Whoever did, I hope they got paid by the word.

  117. 117.

    Barbara

    @dmsilev: There has to be more going on. It would be insane to establish a surrogacy arrangement like this, with someone you know personally. Among other reasons, you take a big risk if the surrogate is also the biological mother. As someone who had already used a surrogate it is unbelievable that he would not understand these things. It would be irresponsible not to speculate: “I’ll pay you to sleep with me and if anyone catches on we’ll just say you were serving as my gestational surrogate.” But $5 million? Something ain’t right . . .

  119. 119.

    mike in dc

    @dmsilev: If I had that condition, I’d pursue surgical removal, followed by radiation and chemo until I was sure I was in remission and the condition didn’t return.

  120. 120.

    B.B.A.

    @Yarrow: Tina Dupuy is no ratfucker. She may not be right in the head – in fact, she may be the only person on earth to interpret a too-tight waist hug as sexual harassment – but she has some known sincere lefties (John Fugelsang and Frank Conniff) vouching for her.

  121. 121.

    LurkerNoLonger

    @JMG: Polls are all over the place and I’ve heard Senate races are notoriously hard to poll. I still think Jones has a good shot because I’m an optimistic person and wallowing in negativity and defeatism before any ballots have been cast is loser talk.

  122. 122.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense:

    Like I said on the morning thread, if you’ve been around social justice work for decades, you recognize when Republican operatives are out to take down their opposition and discredit a movement.

    You’d think some Democrats would have some idea of this, but nooooo…..we have to take out Franken. And it’s not getting us anything but BothSidesDoIt. Democrats make it so easy for people to hate them. Even Dem voters.

  123. 123.

    Citizen Alan

    @Mnemosyne:

    IIRC, there is no spousal immunity at the federal level. It’s purely a state law thing. I’m sure one of the other 70 attorneys who post here can correct me if I’m wrong.

  124. 124.

    Yarrow

    @Barbara: People use surrogates they know all the time. It’s pretty common. But the rest of it–asking a staffer, the $5 million. That stuff is nuts and doesn’t ring true.

  125. 125.

    different-church-lady

    @Yarrow:

    But the rest of it–asking a staffer…

    Franks, Dude, read the fuckin’ job description: that ain’t in it!

  127. 127.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @aimai: Franks apparently has said that he’s been turned down multiple times for adoption.

    Which could be true. He’s much too old to qualify for traditional adoption.

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @B.B.A.: but she has some known sincere lefties (John Fugelsang and Frank Conniff) vouching for her.

    I heard a few seconds of her subbing for Fuglesang, and I wondered if he brought her in on purpose yesterday, to prove his woke-i-tude. Connie’s a bit more grounded, by which I mean a lot, and suffers fools un-gladly. I’m surprised he’s vouching for her

  131. 131.

    Yarrow

    @B.B.A.: It’s not of interest to me who is vouching for her. She’s made herself a useful idiot. She’s entitled to her opinion, but whoever approved her article in the Atlantic is fully in on the ratfucking. It’s a ridiculous position for her to take, as waist grabbing during photo ops is well within the bounds of normal social behavior.

  132. 132.

    Kathleen

    @MomSense: I’ll bet he’ll say next that Hillary Clinton staying with Bill is the cause of both side creepiness.

    ETA We should write these fuckers’ scripts. We could make a fortune.

  133. 133.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @mike in dc: and she’s Michael Corleone.

    Somewhere between Connie in III, Cersei Lannister and Lucille Bluth. I’ve said it before, she knows the truth about the trump family books and the Kushners’. She’ll push Jared to Meuller or under the bus to stay solvent

    ETAL @Kathleen: yup, and/or for trying to nationalize a local race! For shame!

  137. 137.

    Yarrow

    This is interesting.

    .@Evan_McMullin's Stand Up Republic is spending $500,000 on anti-Roy Moore ads in Alabama: “What if she was your little girl? Your daughter? Your sister? What if she was 16 years old, or 15, or 14?” https://t.co/BYcwzT3MPZ— McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) December 8, 2017

    Evan McMullin is the NeverTrumper Republican who ran for president last year.

  140. 140.

    Mnemosyne

    @B.B.A.:

    She may not be right in the head…

    This is one hell of an understatement. And I’m saying that as someone who understood why Leeann Tweeden might be pissed off at having a prank photo taken of her while she was sleeping.

  142. 142.

    tobie

    @Yarrow: Even if the Atlantic felt they should give Dupuy column space, to use the word “groping” for “waist grabbing” in the headline was inflammatory. Not every unwanted touch is a grope.

  144. 144.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    I’m hearing that there’s a difference in degrees — that Dems should have moved more quickly and GOOPers should have moved, period. It will never go away as long as Trump is in office.

  146. 146.

    B.B.A.

    @Yarrow: I think it’s more like, there are 20-30 male members of Congress who aren’t sexual harassers. Maybe. Actually, it sounds a little high, now that I think about it.

  153. 153.

    Kathleen

    @debbie: I follow Eric Garland on Twitter and he posted thread on how Russians have dirt on all the Rethugs which is why they’re hell bent on latest iteration of the Shut The Fuck Up and Die Slow Horrible Tortuous Death Bill.

    ETA: I think I misunderstood both you and MomSense. Again apologies and I blame Hillary.

  156. 156.

    debbie

    @tobie:

    Not every unwanted touch is a grope.

    Seriously? After the eleventy zillion arguments held here? Yes, every unwanted touch is an unwanted grope, period. The argument is whether the grope, as unwanted as it may be, is intentional or not and whether that should count or not.

  157. 157.

    Kathleen

    @debbie: I was referring to Chuck Todd and his both sides equally perverted and evil. Apologies if I misunderstood your reference.

  158. 158.

    Boatboy_srq

    So, this was NOT “would you, dear stafflady, be willing to carry my wife’s and my kids to term”, but rather “wanna have my kids for me?” A bit different, although the former is still sleazy as fvck.

  159. 159.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Yes, every unwanted touch is an unwanted grope, period.

    I don’t think we’re as agreed on that as you think. And I still think that intentions count.

  161. 161.

    debbie

    @Mnemosyne:

    Oh come on.

    informal
    feel or fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will.
    “he was accused of groping office girls”
    synonyms: fondle, touch; More

    Intention may or may not count, but it doesn’t count any more than perception, consequence, etc.

  162. 162.

    TenguPhule

    @Kathleen: Meanwhile the GOP sleaze machine has its sights set on its next Target, Robert Mueller.

    The gaslighting has begun on the Russia investigation. “Naked Partisan Interference”, “Tainted with Bias”, “Mueller must be investigated!”

    The GOP are pissing crystal meth into the jury pool.

  164. 164.

    Steve in the ATL

    Touching is a very broad category. Groping is a very specific subset of touching. They are not the same.

  166. 166.

    Repatriated

    @Yarrow: $5 mil sounds right for “I’ll adopt the baby instead, and we’ll say it’s a surrogacy arrangement, ok?”

  167. 167.

    Barbara

    @Yarrow: They may use surrogates they know but you don’t do it informally without going through agencies that finalize the paperwork, vet the health of the surrogate, and arrange for donor eggs. That’s what Franks did the first time. Maybe that was his plan this time, but it sounds a lot more like freelancing. Using a personal friend is riskier, but the most important part is not having the surrogate be the biological mother. Basically, it becomes much harder to enforce the contract if she changes her mind.

  168. 168.

    Steve in the ATL

    LA peeps, I may need a couch to sleep on tonight. Leave a key under the mat for me in case my much-delayed flight doesn’t leave.

  169. 169.

    Yarrow

    @debbie: The intention part is the “for sexual pleasure” part of that definition. I guess some people may have a weird fetish where they derive sexual pleasure from putting a hand on someone’s waist in public during a photo op, but it’s probably not all that common.

  170. 170.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Intention may or may not count, but it doesn’t count any more than perception, consequence, etc.

    Your definition requires intention. If it’s not done “for sexual pleasure,” it’s not a grope.

  171. 171.

    TenguPhule

    We have reached peak irony.

    NEWT GINGRICH: I haven’t given up on America. I don’t think Donald Trump has given up on America… most of our viewers haven’t.

    What we now know is the swamp is sicker, more corrupt, more dishonest than we thought it was.

    So, we just have to dig deeper, throw the rascals out. Realize the election of 2018 is going to be truly historic. Between a radical left that is stunningly corrupt, and the rest of us.

    This is a real fight for whether or not America is going to remain a Republic that is ruled by law, or whether it is going to degenerate into being a purely corrupt system of power, where if you’re on the right team you can rip everybody off and be protected, if you’re on the wrong team you can go to jail if you’re innocent.

    I think that is how serious and how profound this is right now. It is one of the great historic moments in American history.

    Everyone at the Onion can now quit. You’ve been replaced by Reality.

  173. 173.

    tobie

    @debbie: I simply don’t agree that all unwanted touches amount to groping. Is pinching cheeks groping? Is shaking a hand too firmly groping? Is putting your arm around someone while posing for a photo groping? How do you distinguish the two?

  175. 175.

    Yarrow

    @Barbara: Agree with all of that. Surrogacy is a complicated matter and there are a lot of steps. It would be very unusual for Franks to use a staffer as a surrogate, although I guess it could be possible. And, as you said, it certainly would not be done in the Handmaid’s Tale style he seemed to be offering her.

  176. 176.

    Barbara

    @Quinerly: They have been married since 1980 and their first and only children are 8 years old. From the article, they might have tried to adopt without success. They probably resisted fertility treatment, or he did, and by the time they decided to undertake it his wife was beyond the age where it was even possible to contemplate using her own biological material. I don’t know why they needed a surrogate. Maybe she had other issues, like repeat miscarriage. Franks is a creep but I can understand how painful this has been for his wife. Seriously, if they had wanted additional children, they probably would have made it happen well before now. His wife must be in her mid to late 50s.

  177. 177.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mnemosyne: if it comes that, I will get a room here. Or maybe party all night in West Hollywood and catch a morning flight out.

    I actually may have to get a Hotel room in Atlanta if I arrive in the middle of the night and can’t get a cab or Lyft home. I took the train to the airport and it won’t be running until 6 am or so.

    My life is so tragic!

  179. 179.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Your own definition says that intention matters. By definition, if an unwanted touch doesn’t have a sexual purpose by the toucher, it’s not a grope no matter where it lands.

    Let’s go back to the crowded train scenario. If the train lurches and a guy’s hand lands on your butt, but he immediately apologizes and removes it, is that the exact same thing as the guy who grabs your butt and won’t let go? Should both of those guys be arrested and prosecuted for being transit perverts, or just the guy who did it on purpose?

  181. 181.

    WaterGirl

    @MomSense: Yeah, when I hear Al Franken’s name in a sentence with “sexual predator” it makes me sick. They are just lumping him in with Moore, etc.

  182. 182.

    Sophie Montane

    @debbie: The definition you posted includes the phrase, “for sexual pleasure.” Why are you ignoring that? That’s kind of the key part of the definition. Honestly, if your assumption is that somebody doing the arms-around-waist thing during a photo op is doing it for sexual pleasure, that’s on you.

  183. 183.

    Yarrow

    @Barbara: I agree with you. Infertility is a long, difficult road. I even have some sympathy for him, because it’s not just the woman who suffers when a couple wants children but struggles.

  190. 190.

    Yarrow

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Yes, please. Could you also include some discussion of the Olympics, since there have been suggestions by Nikki Haley that we might not go because it “wouldn’t be safe.” Sounds like BS to me. Vlad doesn’t want us to go since Russia can’t go.

  191. 191.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    since there have been suggestions by Nikki Haley that we might not go because it “wouldn’t be safe.”

    Given how much Trump seems to want to pick a fight with North Korea, she may not be entirely wrong.

  192. 192.

    Quinerly

    @Barbara: Read all that. Made a comment or two with a typo on this phone that I couldn’t correct. When I read that subsequent article about his wife (posted), I began to feel sorry for her. He’s a creep. She’s in the hospital right now. I quit joking around about it.

  193. 193.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I could post something on a very realistic scenario for the disaster that would be an attack on North Korea if we need a change of pace.

    Saw it in Wapo.

    Gonna have nightmares tonight.

  194. 194.

    Mnemosyne

    @Sophie Montane:

    I think this is part of the disconnect: we are just starting a societal transition that says that casual touches without asking permission first are no longer okay. Some people are ready to race ahead and make a declaration that the rules have already changed, but when you’re on the vanguard of a social change like that, IMO you have a responsibility to tell other people that you are changing the existing social rules on them. If you’re in a situation where it’s normal for the other person to put their arm around you — like in a photograph — right now, the person who doesn’t want to be touched needs to speak up and say, “Please don’t do that.” Otherwise, we’re going to end up living in a hell where (let’s say) a third of the population is filing an official complaint because someone touched them on the arm and the other two-thirds doesn’t get why.

  196. 196.

    magurakurin

    @Yarrow:

    Vlad doesn’t want us to go since Russia can’t go.

    you can be goddamn sure the US figure skating team DEFINITELY wants to go if Russia ain’t going.

  197. 197.

    Kathleen

    @TenguPhule: Of course. Eric Garland (one of the people I follow on Twitter) said an in a fight like this you don’t deliver a knockout blow – you deliver multiple blows to keep the enemy off guard. I’m paraphrasing badly, I think that’s what Mueller is doing. He’s overloaded their sensors and they’re erupting in rage. They will bring themselves down.

  199. 199.

    Mike in DC

    @Yarrow:
    This would be unpopular and a huge loss for the US athletes who trained for years to qualify and participate in the Olympics.

  201. 201.

    magurakurin

    @Mike in DC: Personally, I hate the Olympics, but I agree. It isn’t Nikki Haley’s call to make, or Trump’s for that matter. The athletes are adults. They can decide for themselves about the risks.

  202. 202.

    Yarrow

    @Mike in DC: Didn’t stop Jimmy Carter in 1980. Times have changed and the Olympics are much more of a business and have fully professional athletes now, though, so it’s not the same.

  203. 203.

    Roger Moore

    @Yarrow:

    It would be very unusual for Franks to use a staffer as a surrogate

    I would say it would also be very inappropriate. In my field, it’s considered inappropriate to ask a coworker to donate a vial of blood because there’s too much implicit coercion involved. Asking somebody who works for you to be a surrogate is so far over that line you can’t even see it anymore.

  204. 204.

    TenguPhule

    @Kathleen:

    He’s overloaded their sensors and they’re erupting in rage.

    I’m afraid that’s not what they’re doing.

    This is calculated. Its coordinated. This is not panic, this is a plan.

    They’re making this into a public relations litmus and innoculating their tribe against Truth, Justice and the American way. By this time next month, I’m not going to be surprised if they haven’t convinced a sizable minority that Mueller is a Nazi and that any charges he brings are partisan nonsense.

    And Trump and company only need one or two assholes on a jury to fuck it all up.

  205. 205.

    magurakurin

    @B.B.A.:

    How’s the Olympic Village in Sochi doing?

    I heard they are still looking for enough snow to hold the cross country ski events.

  208. 208.

    Sophie Montane

    @Mnemosyne: But what’s confusing me is this: are people like debbie re-defining “grope” to leave out the sexual element? When they say “grope” they just mean any unwanted touch now? I’ve never heard the word used that way.

  210. 210.

    But her emails!!

    @debbie: I wasn’t particularly fond of hugs during my childhood. Does that mean I was a victim of child molestation?

  211. 211.

    Yarrow

    @Roger Moore: I understand that and yes, it wouldn’t be appropriate. However, the fertility treatment world and surrogacy are filled with unusual things like that happening. Depending on the work place and the relationship between the people at work, I can imagine situations where it might occur. The fertility clinic might not agree to it, though. Also the lawyer hired to do the paperwork might say they won’t draw up the contract for it.

  213. 213.

    Kathleen

    @sharl: Was that when his first wife was dying with cancer and he was refusing to pay alimony or child support or when his second wife was diagnosed with MS?

  214. 214.

    But her emails!!

    @Quinerly: Trump’s got to go. That’s the same accusation that was the final straw for Democrats regarding Franken and this one isn’t even anonymous.

  216. 216.

    mike in dc

    @Yarrow:
    Yeah, but Carter was doing it in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan . Here, why would Trump be pulling the athletes out?

  217. 217.

    debbie

    @Yarrow:

    Sounds like BS to me. Vlad doesn’t want us to go since Russia can’t go.

    Maybe not. A large number of Americans in South Korea make for a tempting and nearby target for North Korea.

  222. 222.

    TenguPhule

    @mike in dc:

    Here, why would Trump be pulling the athletes out?

    Prelude to an attack.

    The Imperials always pull their forces out before a major strike.

  226. 226.

    magurakurin

    @debbie: I’d imagine that if Kim wanted to commit suicide like that he’d prefer to at least take a whack at Waikiki Beach.

  231. 231.

    sharl

    @Kathleen: LOL, I doubt that even Newt has been able to keep such details straight in his mind; there were so many incidents.
    Now THERE’S a guy who should keep his fucking head down and out of sight during all this, though if he did that, he wouldn’t be the shameless creature we’ve come to know over the years.

  234. 234.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You think that is tragic? I had to drive a minivan today. The horror….

    You win. Even if I end up sleeping on a bus bench in Inglewood tonight. Minivan [shudders] [then shutters for the spelling impaired]

  237. 237.

    TS

    @But her emails!!:

    Trump’s got to go. That’s the same accusation that was the final straw for Democrats regarding Franken and this one isn’t even anonymous.

    The rules for democrats are 100% different to the rules for republicans – that seems to be the idea of all the posts on this thread. Trump ain’t going anywhere – other than a number of golf courses.

  242. 242.

    Yarrow

    @debbie: Americans aren’t the only ones who go to the Olympics, so he’d be hurting a bunch of other countries as well. Maybe that’s not a problem for him. I don’t think China would be very happy about it, though.

  243. 243.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Yarrow:
    Yeah, I mean I imagine their ratings would naturally drop if no Americans were participating. I’ve never liked their nationalistic coverage anyway.

  244. 244.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:

    My sister in law’s minivan just got stolen, apparently. Since it was over 10 years old, I’m assuming they wanted it for parts.

  245. 245.

    Steve in the ATL

    @debbie: that’s not what I said and you know it. Quit being a petulant child.

    You stated your position on an issue on an anonymous internet chat room. Many of the people who post here disagreed with you. It happens. It’s not personal. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. If you can’t handle the gentle disagreement posted here today by people you don’t know in real life and probably never will, then you should probably stay off the internet.

    But you keep doubling down on your mistake. Let it go and move on. You have insightful things to say on other topics. Proceed with those types of posts before you get a reputation as shomi/BiP/TrentRunner.

  250. 250.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    There are already a lot of Americans in South Korea.

    And The Republicans are already making noise about pulling out the troops dependents from South Korea.

  256. 256.

    KithKanan

    @John Revolta: The most stolen car last year was the 1997 Honda Accord. Cars from the pre-chip-key era routinely top the list because they’re much easier to steal.

  257. 257.

    Kathleen

    @sharl: But he got himself out there today (?) with this draining the swamp shit. Is Mel Brooks writing the script for this?

  260. 260.

    sharl

    @Kathleen: It IS like Newt sprang to life from a Brooks script and escaped the studio; that right there is the basis for a dark comedic fantasy.

    I haven’t looked into the latest, but I assume that by now his wife is in place as U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican. I like the idea of Newt, being his usual self – shameless and lacking in self-awareness – offering unsolicited thoughts on ethics and morality to the Pope. I’m bad for kinda wishing the Pope to be placed in that situation solely for my petty amusement, but hell, he just met with some genocidal Burmese generals, so we know he has a thick hide. He can smile and pass Newt along the greeting line or whatever in quick order.
    Go get ’em Newt!

  266. 266.

    Aleta

    @Quinerly: Well that’s enlightening. (Thanks for that link.)

    Good god. The oil cos, the mining cos, the toxic polluters … They’ve been trashing the ocean and the mountains in Africa and Central America for years with little interference. They’ve been allowed to toxify parts of Canada to death. Now they have to keep the big profits going. Continue seducing investors, make their stock look promising.

    They look at the US and see how it’s past time to have their way with more of the landscape. Now, while the country is still set up to make taxpayers subsidize them.

    The stock market is more important in this country than life itself.

  268. 268.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I have to meet some people. Have a good evening. For people who care, I will be using a union cab.

  269. 269.

    Peale

    @debbie: were Kim to do violence at the Olympics, so many would be dead in the region that the loss of the US short track racing team would be a footnote. What frickin cowards.

  271. 271.

    debbie

    @Mnemosyne:

    Sorry not to see this until now, but thank you. I’ve said all I can say and hope to stay out of these debates/arguments from now on. But I salute your passion and your energy, and I wish I could muster up a fraction of either.

Comments are closed.