Snappy, alliterative, essentially true — President Trump had coined another one. For the first time, the target of his executive nicknaming was one of his own: “Sloppy Steve” Bannon, his ousted strategist. https://t.co/Zi6gE0Y7x4
— NYT National News (@NYTNational) January 6, 2018
Haberman said Trump is also incorrect when he says he never met with Wolff, but she also said that Wolff is “overstating the access he had to the president” to write the book.
She pointed to other inconsistencies that Wolff is making.
“He described in the book Rupert Murdoch’s quote ‘an expletive idiot’ about Trump and then in his own column a day later it was ‘expletive moron,'” she said.
Haberman said the shortcoming is the result of Wolff’s decision not to make the extra effort to check basic facts.
“Michael Wolff and Donald Trump are not dissimilar people. I mean, there is a reason they knew each other before the president became the president. Wolff privately refers to him as Donald, not Trump or the president or so forth,” she said.
I’ll buy that Wolff is somewhat full of shit and also stretches a quote to fit his narrative, even though, as James Fallows points out, he’s only reporting what we all know already. I also think that Haberman and the Times fundamentally misunderstand how to best cover this administration.
Wolff understood how to get the kind of access that the Times only dreams of: he lied, kissed ass and otherwise donned the appearance of complete fealty towards a narcissist. Then he reported what he saw. The Times thinks they can play a game of coyly, briefly brushing their lips to Trump’s ass (as in the tweet above) to curry favor. The institutional prissiness and prudishness of their DC bureau also keeps them from writing what should be some of the best copy every written by the White House Press Corpse. At least one Times reporter should be filing stories like those in Wolff’s books, getting “fucking moron” and “fucking idiot” straight, if that’s as vitally important as Haberman suggests.
After years of being kissed by the best, Trump’s fat ass is chapped and calloused, and only responds to the most vigorous and consistent application of a courtier’s lips. The little butterfly kisses emitted by the Times from time to time could perhaps be a soothing balm to a less thickened organ, but they’re barely sensed by Trump’s butt, if they’re felt at all. Yet, the Times persists in destroying their reputation and disparaging others who are stealing their lunch. I don’t see Marty Baron’s Post doing the same.
ArchTeryx
Reposted from now-dying thread:
The real people that got torched in Fire and Fury aren’t the Trumpolytes. They’re the Beltway media, who got shown as the bunch of knaves, naifs and trustafarians that they really are. Drew Magary actually calls out Maggie Haberman and the Vichy Times by name, something that’s needed doing ever since the Bush years. They’re just another bunch of Good Germans, writing Hitler’s hagiography while studiously ignoring the stench from the ovens in the background.
Brachiator
Why doesn’t Haberman just join the Trump administration and be done with it.
I have not bashed the NYT as hard as others here, but I cannot recall another journalist (as opposed to pundit) continually bending over backwards so furiously in order to defend a president, and to explain, justify, rationalize and excuse the inexcusable.
SFAW
Oh, they understand just fine. Their “methodology” (so to speak) is exactly in line with what they want to get out of that coverage.
Just because their opinion re: ‘how to best cover [sic] this administration” is at odds with your opinion, as well is the opinion of most rational Americans, does not mean they’re doing it worng in their minds.
Or have you been under the impression that the nickname “Vichy Times” was just petulance on the part of libtards?
Hildebrand
@ArchTeryx: Magary’s piece is outstanding. Here’s hoping someone in the Press Corpse actually (and maybe more than just one) decides to burn these people for good.
Baud
.
kindness
Maggie Haberman…isn’t that synonymous with Vichy?
GeoWHayduke
When the narrative is whether Murdoch called Trump a “fucking idiot” or a “fucking moron” winning is clearly being done.
hellslittlestangel
Shorter NYT National News: Duh … “Sloppy Steve.” Funny! Duh …
SFAW
@Baud:
Short, and to the point. Nicely done.
Ruviana
Love the nym modification Mistermix!
Big Ole Hound
Just keep all this “news” in the headlines for weeks and drive the Trumpster crazy with having to constantly do defense work and lawyering. Maybe he’ll quit but, then we will have Pence to fight with. So by this time next year Pelosi will be speaker and thus become president? Hah.
trollhattan
If Possum Queen repeats her blanket dismissal of the book as 100% FAKE I’d like one of our media types to ask her why then, is Trump in an active fight with Bannon over quotes from a book that is fake?
ArchTeryx
@Hildebrand: One did: The one who wrote Fire and Fury. Maggie Haberman getting her ass scooped by a gossip columnist rat is just the chocolate ganache on top of the sundae.
trollhattan
@SFAW:
Early, leaked draft of Baud! 2020 platform.
MisterForkbeard
Did the NYT put a disclaimer on all of Haberman’ s commentary saying she’s a direct competitor to Wolff and has an interest in destroying his work, and therefore can’t be trusted?
Because that appears to be her agenda. Also, she seems kind of shellshocked by the fact that his booo is so much better than hers is, and he didn’t even have to sell his soul for it.
SFAW
Must you? That’s as fucking vile as anything I’ve read from Shitgibbon. Yes, I’m being serious. And my “sensibilities” are not exactly what one would call “delicate.”
SFAW
@trollhattan:
Now who can argue with that? (The platform, that is.)
Gelfling 545
“I never called you an idiot. i called you a moron”
“Oh. That’s ok, then”
Seriously?
ArchTeryx
@SFAW: Sometimes, you have to fight vile with vile. We tried the high road and we got our ass handed to us. Time to go all-in on hogtying the pig even if we get muddy in the wrestling match.
Brachiator
@Hildebrand:
Great piece. Thanks for the link.
Sadly, I don’t think it will change anything for most of the press. The Beltway media desperately want to be part of the Club, or at least get the approval of the elite. Playing along is baked into their brand of journalism.
I didn’t know much about Wolff or how he is viewed by fellow journalists. That he understands the sleaze and backbiting so well definitely gave him an advantage. And it makes the other dope reporters look like the appeasing fools that they have always been.
Aleta
What a coincidence. Haberman’s talking points are the same as David Brooks’ on PBS last night.
schrodingers_cat
@Aleta: He is all in. I wonder if Russkies have kompromat on his two-timing ex-Mrs Brooks with the current one.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: There’s no actual problem with using the semi-structured elite level interview when interviewing the President or even other senior officials. Whether White House aides or in the various departments or in outside organizations. The problem is that when you prepare both the article to be reported and the transcript that you don’t make clear in the former when something being said is inaccurate and/or untrue, why, and providing a citation. And annotating the transcript with “Editor’s Note: this statement is inaccurate, here’s a link to the correct information”. If they would just do this there wouldn’t be a problem Allowing these folks to tell their stories is fine. They can’t keep them straight and they sound nuts when given a chance to expound.
aimai
@MisterForkbeard: Yes, she does seem quite shellshocked and, from her tweets, completely unselfish conscious about revealing just how pissed off she is with her competitor.
Bobby Thomson
Again, absolutely no value added when Trump does what he did today on Twitter.
aimai
@Adam L Silverman: I’m interested inthe way in which Trumps tweets actually prevent the press from cleaning up his language and his mental presentation–unlike the thorough brushing and dusting they did with Bush’s garbled speech.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@hellslittlestangel: I’d advise you not to ask for the Sloppy Steve Special at your local Applebee’s – it’s haggis filled with ground bull dick and soaked in Budweiser.
Though the word is that asking for the same at underground massage parlors will get you motorboated to rosebud, promptly followed by emesis in orifice.
patrick II
Last night I talked to my wife who is visiting family in Taipei . “Fire and Fury” was front page news in Taiwan. She said all of her family is asking her about it , but she is too embarrassed to be talking about it. They used to look up to this country as aspirational. l think that has changed forever.
JMG
Wolff went in to write a book. Books are one-offs for him, so he can burn every source in it no problemo. Haberman works for a newspaper. It comes out every day so the first aspect of a successful story is that it makes the reader buy the same paper the next day and the day after that. That’s why she doles out her “Trump is nuts and stupid” tidbits only every so often. She has to be invited back to do the job the Times wants her to. And of course, Woolf’s book blows her own into oblivion. Those are her sales he’s taking, so she’s gonna trash him. I was a reporter and columnist for over 25 years. The worst mistake reporters make is not to pretend they’re impartial, it’s to pretend they have no self-interests.
MisterForkbeard
@patrick II: The damage Trump (and republicans) have done to our national image and reputation is frankly astounding.
Aleta
Unstable Traitorous Idiot (UTI) sent Ivanka to “exchange greetings with the Russian attorney and a lobbyist who attended the meeting as they stepped off an elevator” at the Tower. -The Hill
Adam L Silverman
@aimai: W’s speech problem was partially from trying to maintain his faux Texas accent. Ever notice when he had to be serious when things were stressful it went straight out the wind. He still wasn’t a great communicator, but he wasn’t screwing up his sentences.
As for the tweets, when combined with transcripts of interviews and speeches (both prepared and off the cuff) and Q&A, they allow one to build a pretty fleshed out picture of the President, how he thinks, makes decisions, processes information, what his priorities are or aren’t, etc. They’re a goldmine for the operational psych folks in every other countries intelligence services.
Amaranthine RBG
Shorter Balloon Juice : Anything that the NYT publishes other than “Trump is traitor who must be impeached” is an act of complicity.
You people need to get a grip.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aleta: ah ha! So Sloppy Steve got it wrong! Fredo didn’t bring them upstairs! trump sent the Princess to meet the people coming for the meeting he knew nothing about! Sad! Weak!
trollhattan
It’s Politico, Jake, but still worth a read.
Lapassionara
I wish I could write comments as well as Baud.
Frankensteinbeck
@Big Ole Hound:
Yes, please. The national press are fantastic at controlling what is known and discussed in American politics, but they are shit at controlling how people interpret that information. If they’re dumb enough to keep Wolff’s book and its contents front and center, their attempts to poo-poo and downplay it will be meaningless. Only quotes that Trump is an incompetent idiot will get through to the masses.
Hildebrand
@ArchTeryx: I guess I am hoping that someone without Wolff’s credibility issues (i.e. someone who the other beltway types can’t try to rationalize away so easily) will pick up the baton and continue to beat Trump’s team with it.
ArchTeryx
@Amaranthine RBG: It’s the loving lickspittle hagiography articles that caused us to Fuck the Fucking New York Times. Get a grip yourself.
Immanentize
FTFNYTimes. I’m trying to decide — “Vichy Fishwrap” or “Paper of Record for Good Germans?”
TriassicSands
How the hell does Haberman know how much access Wolff had to Trump and his chumps?
Maggie — somewhere out there is a job waiting tables or working as a plumber’s assistant with your name on it. You really need to find some work that you’re more suited to. Perhaps, Trump can fix you up in a coal mine somewhere.
bemused
I agree that most msm has been much too polite and too slow to criticism writing/reporting about trump and his circle even if print and media reporters have more constraints put on them (paychecks contingent on their payees) than lone wolff book writers. Maybe the media critics’ noses are out of joint that Wolff really went after access more than any of them could dare to and had no one telling him what he could do.
Whew, anyone else read Buzzfeed piece about Susie Thompkins Buell rethinking where she will put her money donations and energy regarding women Dems? She called Franken ouster clearly, highly organized and a stampede.
Hildebrand
@Amaranthine RBG: Thank you for sharing.
oldgold
Rob Reiner wins the twitterverse today.
✔
@robreiner
The only true stable genius has to be Mr. Ed., who talks in more complex sentences than the current occupier of the Whitehouse.
Aleta
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Princess of accidental friendly meetings.
For the first time in my life I have fantasies of firing squads.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Immanentize: Why not both? Each is accurate; personally I prefer Vichy Fishwrap for its meter.
patrick II
At what point do republican cabinet members and congressional leadership cross over from craven politics to complicit criminals as they make plans to obstruct justice and kill the Mueller investigation while at Camp David this weekend ?
B.B.A.
Let me guess the wingnut response: “Oh, like Obama and the Clintons were soooo smart.”
Frankly I agree that intelligence isn’t necessary for a great presidency: compare the “second-rate intellect” of FDR with the much smarter – but far less wise – Herbert Hoover and Richard Nixon. The problem with Trump is, he has no intellect, no temperament, no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
aimai
@patrick II: This weekend, obviously. The whole weekend is basically obstruction of justice. But who refers the criminal charges to whom?
Mart
Trumps tweet is “Snappy, alliterative, essentially true” as long as you leave out “who cried when he got fired and begged for his job”, and “has been dumped like a dog by almost everyone. Too bad!” Then it sounds like it was written by a fucking moronic idiot.
sdhays
@trollhattan: Not that shocking. It takes a expert morons to dumb things down to Trump’s level, and Fox News has been developing that talent for 20 years.
Starfish
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Your last point is what Tom Nichols said when I heard him speak. It was the only valuable nugget I took away.
TriassicSands
@Immanentize:
I was given a digital gift subscription to the Times The mistake that critics of the Times (here at BJ) make is they confuse the Times’s political coverage (specifically that of Trump and Clinton) with the totality of the paper. Every day I read excellent articles about a wide range of topics and Trump and Haberman don’t enter the picture at all. I’ve written countless emails and even sent them snail mail to protest their dismal “both-siderism” and all-too-frequent stenography.
But I would really miss the Times if it disappeared. The Times is not a terrible newspaper because political coverage is only a part of its job. Yes, it is probably its most important job and it needs major improvements in both reporters and approach. It would be really nice if the new publisher and editors would all read Paul Krugman’s columns. And it would be nice if they’d get rid of Haberman as a token gesture to improving their political coverage.
Right now, I’m getting both the Post and Times. The Times is a better overall newspaper, but the Post is doing a better job of covering Trump. On the other hand, the Post still has the horrendously bad Fred Hiatt running the editorial page.
judge Crater
After Trump has gone, in a fog of Thorazine and Big Macs, the Times will probably “reassess” its coverage of him à la its Iraq war coverage. But there’s a lot more water to go under the bridge. Mueller’s firing and assorted “constitutional crises” will separate the men from the boys.
patrick II
@TriassicSands:
She asked Trump and he told her and she wrote it down. I don’t think I’m kidding.
Starfish
@TriassicSands: I have attended technical conferences about how the tech people make The New York Times work on so many different platforms, and it has all been fascinating.
gene108
@patrick II: t
It is not permanent but it would take 16 years of Democratic control of government to wipe away the damage Bush, Jr and Trymp have done to our international.
Republicans fundamentally do not understand what makes America great in the eyes of the world, and any time Republicans get control of a branch of government or house of Congress, it will just wipe away the work Democrats have done.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: he can be amusing, and while I don’t find his foreign policy views persuasive, they’re not completely insane, but I gather Mr Stupid People Should Listen To Experts (which I can broadly agree with), is a climate change denier? I haven’t cared enough to read his whole book, but from reading his tweets that’s the sense I get
@Mart: I’d wager the same person who typed that tweet also did the “reality-show accessibility” one. Crap like that should really be signed, they’re mini-op/eds
Jim, Foolish Literalist
is there a waiting list for this hot new club? asking for a friend
Van Buren
@patrick II: That point is in their rear view mirror and fading from sight by now.
Villago Delenda Est
Haberhack is conducting a very sloppy rear guard action.
Wolff has totally pwned her and Thrush.
Suffer, maggots. Suffer.
Kathleen
@aimai: Poor Mags. “OfTrump” is pissed that her “HandMag’s Tale” has been trumped by a “not reporter of her stature”.
NCSteve
This is the single greatest and truest thing ever written about the New York Times’ coverage of Trump.
Kathleen
@Immanentize: “Fluffing Fascists Since 1922”.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kathleen: The 1939 fluffing of “Herr Hitler” relaxing at the Berghof is reason alone to question them, but to add to the meme, the Nazis attacked the NYT as “Jewish Owned”.
Kathleen
@Villago Delenda Est: You know who else has attacked the New York Times…(a little reverse Godwin here).
Mandalay
Nailed it:
gene108
@gene108:
What else will kill America in the eyes of the world is trying to run immigrants out of the country.
https://www.murthy.com/2018/01/03/legislative-barriers-likely-prevent-trump-from-eliminating-ac21-h1b-extensions/
For those not aware, the H1-b visa is usually issued for 2 three year periods for a maximum of 6 years. A lot of people, on H1-b’s are from India.
Their employers sponsor them for Green Cards. The number of Green Cards issued is capped for each nationality. Some countries do not send enough immigrants over to use up their alloted Green Cards. India, and to a lesser extent China, have so many people applying for Green Cards through their employer there is a multi-year backlog to get the GC’s. For Indians it is 10+ years, i.e. you applied in 2008, you might get your GC this year.
This created a problem, because people have been waiting to get their GC’s, but the country quota could not meet the demand. Prior rulings from Immigration were to give people on H1-b’s, who have filed GC’s, but are in a country queue, de facto GC status, so they can sort of settle down here, such as allowing people to continue past the six year limit of their work visa, get work permits, so they are not tied down to only working for their visa sponsor, and giving spouses the ability to get work visas.
By going after law abiding legal immigrants, this sends a signal to the world you are not welcome. And what has impressed the world about America is our willingness and ability to absorb large amounts of immigrants.
geg6
@Villago Delenda Est:
Co-signed.
Amaranthine RBG
@ArchTeryx:
You’re silly.
The article is essentially correct. Trump is very good at his alliterative insults. As is any good politician. Hell, it is one of the few things Trump does well. Alinsky endorsed this decades ago. It is standard Politics 101.
B.B.A.
@Amaranthine RBG: Nobody on the left cares about Alinsky. It’s all just right wingers, and their only reason for bringing him up is him being a Jewy Jew and a commie and did I mention he’s a Jew?
As a recovering ex-troll, I relish the irony when I say: fuck off, troll.
Elie
@patrick II:
We can get the respect back if we fight successfully to get rid of the blight. I think we can do it and it could make our best days ahead of us if successful. There will be multiple fronts and many unlikely allies I predict.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
Vichy Times.
TriassicSands
Trump says he’s a “stable genius.”
I guess that means he’s good at shoveling horse shit.
SiubhanDuinne
@bemused:
Bravo!
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: I’m sorry. (not sure if that’s the right response)
Amaranthine RBG
@B.B.A.:
No, YOU go fuck off. Go die in a fire. Fuck you with a rusty chainsaw.
/ There, I guess that’s the sort of thing you understand. You are like a small child.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amaranthine RBG: Steve… is that any way to win friends and influence people?
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay: “We wouldn’t spill the beans on the ‘Resettlement in the East’ project because it would endanger our access to Herr Hitler!”
Hellbastard
The Trump admin reminds me of the musical finale of the What’s Up With That skit from SNL. The only thing missing is a white guy in a track suit doing the running man.
bemused
@SiubhanDuinne:
That’s a lovely compliment coming from you, highly respected B_J Quip Queen.
Amaranthine RBG
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The best part of this is the dumbass is saying nobody on the left cares about Alinsky. Yeah everybody know that community organizing is irrelevant. The way to win elections is to criticize the New York Times!!!
TriassicSands
@patrick II:
Sigh. You’re probably right.
B.B.A.
@Amaranthine RBG: I see lots of people on the left talking about the importance of community organizing. Not one of them ever mentions Alinsky. However lots of people on the right see him as a bogeyman whose book explains how the commies were able to impurify their precious bodily fluids.
burnspbesq
@Amaranthine RBG:
Au contraire, dickhead. It is you who must stop denying the undeniable.
P.S. you’re free to go and never return.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When I heard him speak he was going on and on about Obama’s “feckless” foreign policy, meaning he didn’t send boots on the ground to Ukraine and Syria.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
No, I was commending you. It was the only point I thought he made that was useful and interesting. I guess it’s obvious, but I hadn’t thought about how foreign intelligence services have been using his tweets.
cwmoss
@Big Ole Hound: if Trump quits, I’m guessing Pence will designate someone other than Pelosi as the new VP.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108: To add to what you said, these people who are getting H1-B extensions have approved I-140s which means their intent to immigrate has been approved by the USCIS, they are just waiting in the queue to get permanent status. There is no single immigration queue but there are many queues depending on your country of origin because the total number of green cards per year in many categories are capped both the total and per country.
Countries that send many immigrants to the United States like India are in the longer queues. Other countries being Mexico, China, and Philippines IIRC.
There is no queue for spouses, parents and children of United States citizens ( fondly called chain migration by this administration.)
Conclusion: The current administration hates immigrants. Period.
SFAW
@ArchTeryx:
Except mistermix’s vile comment wasn’t directed at Shitgibbon; he thought he was being edgy (or whatever) withtoward us. Or do Haberman/Baquet/et al. now read Balloon Juice, and doing so causes them to rethink their idolatry toward Shitgibbon, and I missed it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, he’s a voice for what Obama called The Blob, maybe the most interventionist part of The Blob
SFAW
@Kathleen:
Outstanding
bluefish
Right on! To every single bit of it.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
@JMG:
I still say that the thing causing the most heartburn for the NYT is that they got publicly pwned by a freelancer from a Hollywood trade paper This former stringer finds that absolutely delicious.
rikyrah
I have absolutely no interest in Haberman trying to tell us about Wolff’s journalistic ‘ integrity’.
I could care less.
She’s mad because she got scooped.
She’s mad because a low rent gossip monger is about to GET PAID and never have to work for the rest of his life.
She’s mad because every bad thing folks like me and others have said, respective to her coverage of Dolt45, has been proven to be true.
Phuck her.
Gretchen
Why is it inconsistent that to say that Murdoch referred to him as an idiot and a moron? Could have been two different conversations that both happened.
Gretchen
@rikyrah: That too.
Gretchen
@bemused: Thanks for pointing out that article. I’ve changed my views on Gillebrand after she called for Franken’s head. With Roger Stone’s involvement, just after his tough questioning of Jeff Sessions, that looked like a political hit job to me and it was stupid of Gillebrand to carry out the hit.
James E. Powell
@Hildebrand:
What everyone else in the press/media is thinking is, “Magary’s out, so I move up one space in the pecking order.”
Gretchen
RNC talking points for the Sunday shows include “Maggie Haberman says Wolff got facts wrong.”
Mnemosyne
@Gretchen:
Expect not a single teevee journalist to mention Maggie’s conflict of interest with her own book pending.
James E. Powell
@rikyrah:
Rikyrah Johnson is right!
We on the left rarely if ever conduct the kind of PR wars against specific writers like the right-wingers do. While I’m not suggesting we turn into a howling mob, we ought to be letting the NYT & the world know that we regard Haberman/Thrush as flacks for Trump, that we grant them no credibility or respect, and that the NYT needs to put some one else on that beat.
Let them spend their time on their book.
Kathleen
@SFAW: Thank you!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MisterForkbeard:
Colbert did a Daily Show reunion on the Late Show and one of the comedians was explaining that on his first interview Colbert took him aside and told him “leave your soul in here” because it would only get in the way with the assholes he would have to talk too. Sounds like Wolff took notes.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
This book is so great, not only does it take down Drumpf, but it also swallows up his stenographer Haberman and the Vichy Times.
cokane
haberman has her own book on trump coming out soon, so, makes sense she’ll disparage Wolff
Sherparick
@gene108: This white supremacy ideology is the one thing Trump believes in. In all the change and tumult, it is the one constant. Stephen Miller is his soul brother.
chopper
@hellslittlestangel:
so the times is basically giving the president of the united states a high five for…inventing a childish insult for his former chief advisor.
Uncle Cosmo
@Immanentize: My personal preference is Herrenvölkischer Beobachter, abbreviated HvBO, but I recognize it’s a minority taste.
Julia Grey
@Gretchen:
I guess you didn’t see the photo.
“He was just kidding around! Cantcha take a joke?”
No. No more of this deeply disrespectful kind of “humor.” Letting him off would say that picture wasn’t important, that it was kinda okay. It WASN’T OKAY, and he acknowledged that himself when it came out. Now is the time for us to stand up and say, we love you, men, but you have to finally, finally stop this casual, cavalier, horribly offensive shit.
Gillibrand (and the other 6 senators) didn’t FIRE the man, he resigned. He knew that in the end, it wouldn’t fly, because the days of pretending that photo was EVER funny are o.v.e.r.