It’s pretty dreary here today, but warmer, which is good news. Had to take my dog (Patsy) to the vet this morning. It was for regularly scheduled blood work, so no big deal, but she hates going so much that it’s always traumatic for both of us.
She doesn’t resist in any way, but she leans against me and trembles so much that I feel like a monster for putting her through the ordeal. Poor thing’s teeth even chatter — she’s that terrified.
She was never that way until she had a couple of cysts removed about two years or so ago, and she had some trouble with stitches on one of her front legs and had to go in repeatedly because it wasn’t healing properly. We eventually got it sorted out, but it must have really hurt, because ever since then, she’s been a basket case at the vet’s.
Open thread!
Humdog
poor Patsy! Have you tried going for food right after the vet? Drive thru chicken nuggets helped a lot for one vet phobic dog of mine. It helped she knew the word “chicken treat”, as in, “do you want to go get chicken treats?”
ruemara
Poor Patsy. Have the vets done any counterconditioning or happy pet visits to help reduce the trauma? That’s terrible for her and can have a lot of impact on her health over time.
Betty Cracker
@Humdog: Good idea!
@ruemara: They do know she’s scared and make an effort to comfort her with treats and affection.
schrodingers_cat
Poor Patsy.
jeffreyw
Take her shopping for a new coat. That always perks up Katie!
cope
I took our two Catahoulas in last Friday, 1 for rabies and other vaccines and both for a nail trim.
The younger, bigger female (Gina) wants to get in my lap, jump up on the chairs in the waiting area, and generally is a nervous wreck. Joey, older and smaller, just cowers and stares at me with baleful eyes. I’m pretty traumatized and worn out myself after each of these visits.
exlitigator
My dog is the same. After she had to have a dew claw removed (it was partially torn off, and they just yanked it off) she hates going to the vet.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
So now Oprah is a candidate or something for POTUS?
burnspbesq
Trump:vet::entire civilized world:Patsy
Betty Cracker
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: One of several reasons I’m ignoring the news just now.
rikyrah
I have declared January as Customer Appreciation Month, which is part of my ongoing commitment of putting people first. If you are a business and need to renew your license, don’t delay. Head down to the first floor of City Hall today! #PuttingPeopleFirst pic.twitter.com/G1xx5czy1y
— Randall Woodfin (@WoodfinForBham) January 8, 2018
satby
I have to take the whole crew in for yearly immunization: four dogs, three cats. Separately (well, the cats can all go together as long as they’re in separate carriers).
I get traumatized just thinking about it.
MattF
Madame Giselle, the would-be doyenne of Chevy Chase, has gone back to Bolivia.
jharp
“She doesn’t resist in any way, but she leans against me and trembles so much that I feel like a monster for putting her through the ordeal.”
My little dog gets so frightened by going to the vet that she immediately urinates on the floor when they come to get her.
She really hates getting her nails clipped.
Cacti
Well, well, well…
According to VT Digger, a federal grand jury has been impaneled in the Burlington College/Lady Wilmer case.
rikyrah
OUCH!!!
Because I have two daughters I appreciate Ann Coulter. Coulter stands as a shining example of everything I hope they will not be. Coulter is nasty, cruel, vicious and racist. She has accomplished nothing of meaning-ever and she has stained and harmed the fabric of America
— Steve Schmidt (@SteveSchmidtSES) January 8, 2018
rikyrah
After gutting Voting Rights Act, Republicans now trying to kill National Voter Registration Act of 1993. Pay attention to this week’s SCOTUS case challenging voter purging in Ohio https://t.co/E292xFFFSy
— Ari Berman (@AriBerman) January 8, 2018
Gelfling 545
@Humdog: Flora luuurves her vets. They give her treats. She doesn’t even notice getting shots. Pugs have a deep and complicated relationship with food.
rikyrah
UH HUH
UH HUH
It’s amazing that felon disenfranchisement still gets so little attention.
In 2016, Clinton lost Florida by 112,911 votes.
There are 499,306 black people permanently barred from voting in FL. Assume 35% turnout and a 95%/4%/1% vote split and you get a a net of 158,592 votes.
— sean. (@SeanMcElwee) January 6, 2018
MattF
@MattF: Correction: Colombia.
JPL
I had a pup that got tired of waiting for the vet, and took my purse and marched himself to the exit door.
trollhattan
@MattF:
I was sure you were referencing frau Brady, but suppose she’d be decamping for Brazil. We have our very own version of the grifter queen with the mysterious past.
LAO
my dog is ridiculous. She always figures out where we’re going approximately 1 block from the vet. At that point, she pancakes and refuses to move. I have to carry her there.
Josie
@Gelfling 545: Corgis have a very uncomplicated relationship with food. They want it – all of it, all the time. Duncan loves going to the vet because they give him treats. He lets them do whatever they want – give him shots, cut his nails, you name it, as long as treats are involved.
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: It’s deliberate: in the 80s, about 2% of the population was disenfranchised; now it’s 10%. I think Florida has the worst felon voter restoration process in the country too. Folks have to petition to have their rights restored, wait seven years, and a board appointed by the governor must grant clemency, which it rarely does. It really is scandalous. My local party has been involved in collecting signatures for a ballot initiative to restore voter rights, which we hope will be on the ballot later this year. I’ve collected a ton of signatures myself while registering new voters.
James
My doy liked the vet’s outer office, but boy, that metal table!
Johnnybuck
I love that fucking song!
dmsilev
@burnspbesq:
Can we make Trump wear the Cone of Shame?
LAO
Dog people: I’ve got a question.
My dog has become reactive to other dogs in the lobby/elevator of my apartment building. It’s new behavior. She’s fine (1) if she knows the other dog or (2) is with her dog walker. She does not behave this way while on a lead or at the dog park. I’m at a loss, to the point where I’ve hired a trainer to evaluate her behavior, but I’m sure this is largely my fault. Anybody deal with something like this?
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Funny how the whole ‘War on Drugs’ came on about the same time as felon disenfranchisement. Coinkidence, I’m sure.
zhena gogolia
@jeffreyw:
The only upside to all the time we’ve spent at the vet lately is seeing all the doggehs in their pretty winter coats. I saw two pit mixes who had hoods on their coats! They didn’t seem to like them much, but it was cute.
Ian G.
So my wife bought me “The Dirt”, the Mötley Crüe memoir, for Christmas (not a fan of Crüe’s music, but I know their place in the history of notorious rock bands). I feel like I should follow it up with “Fire and Fury”, just to see if the Trump White House is a bigger train wreck than that band was.
And I couldn’t see how any of the guys in Crüe are less qualified to be president than Shitgibbon.
manyakitty
So along the open/pet thread theme, I keep trying to order my calendar, but the page for it comes up blank. Anyone else experience this?
Also, too, I hope all is/stays well in Patsyland. Woof!
Betty Cracker
@Johnnybuck: It’s a great song!
trollhattan
@LAO:
As a random guess she now believes the elevator and lobby are part of her territory. Going to be hard to break, the answer may be to demand she direct 100% of her attention to her human via “leave it” training, tactical treats, etc.
Good luck!
rikyrah
I wish that Joy would have all the segments online. She did one Sunday discussing the Balanced Budget Amendment. How the right wing wants to go through the states to get a Constitutional Convention. The thing that made my tinfoil hat aflutter is that, if you get a Constitutional Convention, you don’t have to stop at the premise of said Convention – the Balanced Budget Amendment. You can go after the other Amendments. Well, to me, that screamed THEY’RE GOING AFTER THE 14TH AMENDMENT.
So many point out the birthright citizenship in the 14th. The 14th is important because it’s the basis of Brown v. Board, thus, every inch of progress that this country has made since 1954.
I wish I could find the clip online, because that’s where my tinfoil hat went.
Kay
No, Mark, we learned our lesson. We know you won’t cover boring pols with lots of government experience. It took both Al Gore and Hillary Clinton but we got it now. Policy is a snoozefest. Hard work and preparation? That’s for suckers. Bring on the celebrities.
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: Why stop there? They can repeal the 13th and the 15th. And the 1st.
That said, it’s worth mentioning that while they can call a Constitutional Convention with 2/3 of the states (34 states), they need 3/4 (38) to ratify the resulting amendments, as with any amendment. That’s a somewhat higher bar, and once you start getting into bluer states it becomes harder and harder to imagine it happening. It’s often stated that if a Constitutional Convention is happening in the first place, it’s such a crisis of legitimacy for the US government that ratification may not matter… but I think that if the convention is called on razor-thin partisan grounds and it’s obviously a party-line “let’s outlaw the Democrats” affair, that’s probably not the case.
Democratic losses in the states have gotten us too close to all this for comfort, though. 2017 was a promising sign that the slide can be stopped and reversed. Here’s hoping that that continues.
raven
I just came from the doc, she checked me out and gave me some anti-biotics and cough stuff and said I made the right call to not go to the game. Here’s a funny one. After the game we were soaking it up and ran into a couple that I knew when I coached their son 30 years ago. They mentioned that they had run out of juice in their phone and were really worried about finding their way out of the Rose Bowl to their car. I happened to have a battery pack with me and I gave it to them. They called a while ago to find out how to return it when the battery ran out in my phone!!! It’s all good now but pretty funny.
Kay
I’m trying to give my latest rescue cat a better personality but it’s not working. She’s just a malcontent. She won’t even chase a laser. She sneers at it.
Don’t worry- I’m committed to her and I’ll take good care of her but she’s not…nice :)
It’s a crap shoot, right? She’s the third in a succession over 25 years and you just get what you get. She’s attractive! Decorative. That’s a plus!
LAO
@trollhattan: Thank you. It’s just very odd that she doesn’t do it when she’s with the dog walker.
rikyrah
@Kay:
you are good people,Kay.,
LAO
HOLY SHIT!
Kay
@rikyrah:
My daughter gave me “tips”. I think the other cats were nicer because she raised them. Her cat is just loaded with personality- Tommy. It was two sisters and I chose the shorter hair- less shedding. Maybe I should have been less practical.
I bet that longer hair cat is nice, wherever she ended up :) What coulda been.
LAO
@LAO: I’m literally gobsmacked at the moment.
The Moar You Know
Mine loves the vet. Just loves it. Has helped that for a couple of the more traumatic things we’ve had to put him through, they have me come back into the theater with him and hold his head and cuddle him.
Those days, we come home and he spends the rest of the day curled around my feet.
Next time we show up, it’s all wagging and jumping on the counter again. Helps a lot that all the employees there just are in love with him, but then again everyone pretty much is: he’s one of the prettiest goldens I’ve ever seen in my life. And super-sweet to boot. He didn’t even get mad about the neutering. I would have.
My dog is really my best friend and vice-versa. My wife is a little peeved about how this worked out, but it’s just how our lives are; I get to spend a lot more time with him than she does, and I do all the basics; the walks, the feeding, etc. So I’m his go-to guy.
trollhattan
@LAO: Had read that this was a possibility–Bundy-friendly judge and messy prosecution case. The chilling outcome of this across the west under the Trump-Zinke regime will be a wonder to behold. It will be worse than during Reagan-Watt, and that’s saying a lot.
Humdog
@Kay: Less attractive animals are friendlier, kinda like people. You are to be her servant, not her buddy, evidently.
trollhattan
@LAO:
Couple of possibilities–doesn’t feel the need to “protect” the walker (“you’re not my real mommy”) or somehow the walker has her undivided attention. Have you gone together with the pooch to see what happens?
efgoldman
@Matt McIrvin:
If a convention should ever be called (first one since 1789), there’s no theoretical limit on what it could do. It could replace the whole document and amendments with one sentence “I got mine fuck you.” It could take away the rights – any rights – of anyone not a white male who own a firearm. It could re-institute chattel slavery, if the votes are there.
That’s why so many people with any goddamned sense fear it.
J R in WV
We once had a cat, Ralph, who was so self-assured that we could take another critter into the examining room and leave him on his chair in the waiting room, where he would be curled up and nearly asleep, boredwith the whole experience.
When it was his turn to be “inspected, injected and dejected” we would open the door and tell him “Ralph, it’s your turn now.” and he would jump down from his chair, walking the exam room and hop up onto the table, much to the amazement of the vet. Swear to FSM, struth!!
Betty, we always go through the Wendy’s Drivethru after vet trips on the way home and get a single with nothing. Peel it open to cool on the dashboard, which gets everyone’s attention focused hard. Then how ever many victims you split up that hamburger patty and pass everyone a little chunk of straight all beef patty, usually two in our case. They may not like the Vets much more, but it gives them something else to think about going and coming home.
Sometimes we even get one with onions mustard and pickles for me and a chicken for wife, depending on the timing. Then everyone gets something to eat.
The cats get Greenies from the Vet, and are in their carriers, so much less hassle. No Wendy’s for them.
HeleninEire
First day complete at the new job! I think this job is gonna be a cakewalk but not so easy that it will bore me. Very similar to my last job. And the people are great. Also, flextime! I can work any 8 hrs between 8am and 7pm (after 3 months probation) WOO HOO! And the 2 1/2 mile walk was just right for the morning. So glad to have the first day done. Looking forward to going back tomorrow.
Betty Cracker
@LAO: So does Bundy get to keep using public land to graze his cattle too? Hell, they might as well erase the $10M fine and just cede the land to him. If you’ve got a shitload of guns and Fox News on speed dial, the laws don’t apply to you, apparently.
The Moar You Know
@Ian G.: I would recommend Nikki Sixx’s (founder and songwriter for the Crüe) “The Heroin Diaries” to anyone. It’s a damn good, honest book (he’s not afraid to look bad, and some parts of that book make him look REALLY bad).
And yeah, he’d be a far better president than Trump. Even the “on drugs” version would have been.
LAO
@trollhattan: I can’t even — I doubt that the Judge is “Bundy” friendly — I’m sure the Justice Department shit the bed. On one hand, I want to hold the prosecution accountable for respecting defendants’ constitutional rights but on the other hand, DAMN!
PST
I’m sorry about Patsy’s ordeal. This thread is a cautionary tale for me. Our 9-month-old dog loves everything, including trips to the vet and meeting other dogs in the lobby. It worries me to hear that those things can change. I foolishly assumed that behavior is pretty well dialed in by this time in a pup’s life. It’s been 30 years since I had a dog that wasn’t already fully grown.
LAO
@Betty Cracker: I’m shocked. More shocked than I would have been at an acquittal. I shudder to think of the lawlessness that will be promoted by this dismissal.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: It’s not just you, rikyrah. I have read about that concern elsewhere. Can’t provide a link because it was weeks and weeks ago, but I don’t think it’s tinfoil hat territory at all.
It’s just like the scam they tried in IL to get us to be stupid enough to let them convene the convention that would have allowed them to take all our pension stuff away, etc. These people are all evil and they are not doing anything for our benefit.
WaterGirl
@Matt McIrvin: Even with a high bar, once you think that elections are being stolen and votes are being suppressed, there’s no bar that can convince me there is not a big risk.
edit: once the unthinkable happens – Trump becomes an illegitimate president – you cannot un-learn the lesson that the unthinkable really can happen.
The Moar You Know
@LAO: Had a very bad feeling this was coming when the first go-round went to a mistrial. She’s an Obama appointee, recommended by Harry Reid. She saw something I obviously didn’t. These people are a goddamn menace to society. But if the government got cute, and it looks like they did, well, perps walk.
trollhattan
@LAO:
I don’t wish to jump on the judge prematurely but am curious as to who appointed her, etc. Echoing Betty, this opens the gates wide to every cracker with an ORV and an arsenal and as a westerner I can assure any and all that they’re ready to roll. Dept. of the Interior employees will be instructed to stand down and let them.
WaterGirl
@raven: You’re a good egg, raven. Hope the doc telling you you made the right choice makes it easier to roll with your decision.
jeffreyw
@rikyrah: We need to mention, loudly and often, the in any Constitutional Convention the 2d amendment might see some revisions. Definitions of militias would be in order as well as changes in punctuation to merge the clauses.
That is before any mentions of emoluments. The 25th amendment has been getting some play lately. Let’s talk about streamlining that one.
WarMunchkin
@LAO: I’ve lost power of speech. I believe the judge but holy shit.
WaterGirl
@Kay: I bet WereBear could give you some tips on how to reach your new kitty. Maybe she’s still worried about things that happened before. I think there’s still hope, but it may not happen overnight.
trollhattan
@PST:
One bad experience can flip them like a light switch. Our first Dal was unbothered by loud noises, lightning, etc. until he escaped overnight on the Fourth of July; the rest of his life he was utterly terrorized to the point of panic.
LAO
@trollhattan: She is an Obama appointee. And quite frankly, I fully support Judges that hold the government responsible for misconduct. But damn, couldn’t the Justice Department have done a better job.
@The Moar You Know: As you know, those “technicalities” everyone bitches about are, actually constitutional rights.
Another Scott
Dunno if this has been mentioned yet. Reuters: Tom Steyer to spend $30M on Democratic House races in 2018.
And I see that the judge has dismissed the charges against Cliven Bundy and his two sons.
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@LAO: Kinda makes me wish the feds hadn’t decided to be patient and wait the bastards out in the original standoff. I know — easy for me to say, I wouldn’t have been among the people who had to confront the heavily armed yahoos. But there’s no chance of justice now.
raven
@WaterGirl: It’s cool that I hd the charger, I just brought it so I could take more pics. I’m dutifully sorry to not make the game in person but I’ll get over it. thx for the input
Kay
@WaterGirl:
Well, she’s not “new” :)
We’ve had her for about 2 years. We had this sort of stand-out cat prior to this one. Zinnia. She looked like a raccoon. She had crossed eyes and weird off-kilter gait but she was everyone’s favorite. Maybe the comparison is unfair. The vet likes the newer cat, Daisy, because you can really plunk her down anywhere and she stays. Zinnia was fierce.
The Moar You Know
@LAO: Yep. If the government railroaded these guys on bullshit, and that’s what she said happened, well, they should walk.
I’m not that concerned, this crew is fucking stupid AND criminal and they’ll be back in jail soon enough, past performance being the accurate predictor of future behavior (my favorite HR saying) that it is.
ETA: my main concern, obviously, is that they don’t kill anyone in the process.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Question for those who know about drugs and side effects. Can an overdose of [email protected] really do this to you? Or are the s * x tours in Thailand selling something else as “[email protected]”? Or is this guy just lying about what he OD’ed on, for unknown reasons?
(Names of certain drugs obscured, including in URL, just in case I hit a FYWP tripwire)
WaterGirl
@Kay: Two years is a long time. ;-)
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@LAO: What exactly is the behavior? And does it depend on whether the other dog does what most will naturally do, begin a tentative approach and sniff?
bemused
@rikyrah:
I find Schmidt kind of fascinating to watch. He is extremely affronted. I watch and imagine as a young boy he was just as fervently earnest.
LAO
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Maggie: aggressively lunging, barking and snarling. Other dog: nothing.
It’s awful.
raven
@HeleninEire: Cool!
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: A happy vet visit has no procedures at all. She comes in, gets praised, a tasty treat and goes back out. It shows her a visit can be a completely positive experience. Usually takes about 3 minutes tops.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@LAO: Neighbor of ours has a dog like that, an Akita who attacked our (long gone now) dog unprovoked one day years ago, and similarly seems to hate all other dogs. In her case, she (the Akita) has always been that way. And she’s sweet as pie to me personally, as are her owners.
Maggie’s behavior is a little puzzling, since it doesn’t seem to be ingrained but started later in life. And the fact that she doesn’t do it with the dog-walker is equally puzzling. Perhaps she feels she is defending you, based on some incident with a strange dog?
I think bringing in a trainer to observe the behavior first hand and try to understand the trigger is a good idea.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
Re vet trauma: Iggy was getting his nails clipped at the vet, and the tech clipped a little too close on one and he yelped and started squirming. Rather than pet and comfort him like something bad happened, I immediately stood up tall in front of him, looked him in the eyes, and with a big smile I said “yay Iggy!” like he was doing the most fun, amazing thing in the world. The tech continued, and I kept smiling at Iggy and saying “good BOY!” Other than a couple of quick glances while the tech trimmed his front nails, he never broke eye contact with me — he looked like he was asking, “is this fun? It doesn’t feel fun but you’re saying it’s fun so okay I trust you even though it doesn’t feel fun, but I guess this will all be okay then, even if I’m not so sure it’s fun and it feels kind of scary, okay I’m fine with it, I think. Please don’t leave.”
I kept praising him for doing this incredibly awesome thing, the tech finished with no trouble, and there’s no sign of Iggy being traumatized.
So yeah, I gaslighted my dog.
PST
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: No on the drug side effects. The PDE-5 inhibitors all work on the plumbing, not the brain and not on hormonal systems. Their current use was a side effect of research for treatment of pulmonary hypertension.
LAO
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Also, calling her “my little Cujo” can’t be good for her self-esteem. As a decent dog owner, I’ll work hard to train it out of her.
ruemara
@LAO: Try the reactive dog workshop or the dog aggression dvd. You’d be surprised how much leash techniques and the human at the end of the leash can affect the dog.
LAO
@ruemara: Thanks for the link. I expect I’m mostly to blame since (1) this has developed recently and (2) she doesn’t do it when with the dog walker.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: That’s a great idea, and I’m sure they’d be game. Thanks for the suggestion! ?
Fair Economist
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Nah, that wasn’t the blue pill. Must have been something else. He’s blaming the blue pill because the Thai are nutso strict about illegal drugs and if he’s convicted for something illegal he’s going to spend a lot of time in a Thai prison, which is not a place you want to be.
The Moar You Know
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: No. It can give you a massive stroke (happened to a good friend of mine who is now worse off than being dead) or a heart attack, or make your blood pressure crash down to the point where you die, due to its action on your blood vessels, but it doesn’t make you act like that.
Given that this is Thailand, I’d bet the house that meth was involved. Meth/cocaine and dick medicine tends to end rather badly. Has killed quite a few people recently, most notable that I can think of at the moment being the very much missed bassist for the Who, John Entwistle.
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: I completely lay any good ideas I have on dogs to my time working for Dr. Yin. Rest her soul. I wish there was someone actually carrying on her research.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Gorka letting his freak flag fly on Wolff’s book
That previous age presumably being 1930’s Germany
Matt McIrvin
@efgoldman: It could do any or all of those things, but those changes would still have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states–at least if the amendment procedure specified in the Constitution is being followed.
catclub
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Are the treasonous goals more like “honest reporting on the fuhrer”?
Matt McIrvin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Or just the age that motivated the Framers of the Constitution getting really, really specific about the definition of “treason”. Treason as lèse majesté.
MoxieM
@trollhattan: Yeah, gonna say, similarly: Murphy (who turns out to be improbably mostly Gt Pyrenees) Is My Guardian (mine alone, and the territory she perceives as representing me.) So other people–sister, dog walker–can take her for walks and she’s perfectly fine with other dogs & other people.
But woe betide other dogs, people, (or prey, another topic) when I take her out for a walk. She takes her work very seriously, and hackles and emits warning growls that I suspect mean business. I warn people off. To me, she’s small, but at 85 lbs I’m aware that she’s a big girl in the real world.
She’s an older rescue. This behavior has been emerging as she has settled in with me over the last few months. She was just withdrawn initially–now she’s bratty or downright hostile to random others we encounter on walks. And, I just can’t predict what will alert her. It’s a little scary, to be honest.
So, I wonder if your pup is similarly trying to be your protector, and as TH suggests, sees the elevator/lobby etc as part of the territory where you need to be kept safe.
I look forward to advice on training them out of this–especially as in my case, I have a working dog who is doing her job. Pyrs aren’t usually pets, I think? but livestock guard dogs. I guess that makes me a cow! or sheep. lamb. whatever.