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You are here: Home / Politics / Goddamned Traitors / Russians, Guns and Money

Russians, Guns and Money

by Betty Cracker|  January 18, 20189:23 am| 118 Comments

This post is in: Goddamned Traitors, Gun nuts, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Trump-Russia, General Stupidity

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Did blood-gargling sociopath Wayne LaPierre of the NRA join Trump and Putin’s unholy union to form the most revolting political threesome in history? Maybe!

FBI investigating whether Russian money went to NRA to help Trump

January 18, 2018 05:00 AM

WASHINGTON — The FBI is investigating whether a top Russian banker with ties to the Kremlin illegally funneled money to the National Rifle Association to help Donald Trump win the presidency, two sources familiar with the matter have told McClatchy.

FBI counterintelligence investigators have focused on the activities of Alexander Torshin, the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank who is known for his close relationships with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and the NRA, the sources said.

It is illegal to use foreign money to influence federal elections.

According to OpenSecrets and The Trace, the NRA pumped an unprecedented amount of money into the Trump campaign and key down-ballot races — and damn near ran the table:

The National Rifle Association took a historic gamble in 2016, and it paid off in a huge way.

The gun rights group placed multimillion-dollar bets on Donald Trump and six Republican Senate candidates locked in highly competitive races. It poured $50.2 million, or 96 percent of its total outside spending, into these races, and lost only one — an open seat in Nevada, vacated by the Democratic Minority Leader, Harry Reid. That race cost the NRA roughly $2.5 million.

The NRA laid out more than double the amount it spent on Romney in 2012 to put Trump over the top in 2016. It spent more than $6 million to elect Richard Burr — the most the death merchant lobbying group had ever spent on a down-ballot race:

The NRA ran scads of scaremongering ads of the “Hillary Clinton is coming after mah gunz” type, blanketing TV advertising blocs in key district, while shady Russian outfits invested in similar garbage ads on platforms that don’t require disclosure about buyers. It’s almost as if they were a tag-team operation.

This isn’t the first time links between Russia, the Trump campaign and the NRA have surfaced. Let’s hope Mr. Mueller finds the smoking gun.

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Reader Interactions

118Comments

  1. 1.

    Chyron HR

    January 18, 2018 at 9:38 am

    NEOMCARTHYISM!

    Also check out the Intercept’s exclusive expose on why Peurto Ricans deserve to die in squalor.

  2. 2.

    Daddio7

    January 18, 2018 at 9:39 am

    A lovely graphic, meaningless without from who and how much each of the opposing party candidates received in donations. Maybe the NRA only backed sure winners in races the Democrats had abandoned.

  3. 3.

    Mike in DC

    January 18, 2018 at 9:40 am

    Dissolve the NRA and the national infrastructure of the Republican party under RICO. “Nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. “

  4. 4.

    manyakitty

    January 18, 2018 at 9:40 am

    Let’s hope Mr. Mueller finds the smoking gun.

    And that it’s smoking because a failson just shot off a buttock.

  5. 5.

    manyakitty

    January 18, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @manyakitty: Not sure about my weird formatting…

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 9:41 am

    of course they gave money to the NRA.

  7. 7.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    January 18, 2018 at 9:43 am

    These guys are all tied up in this shit together. There’s no other plausible way to explain all this shit. They all thought they could do anything they wanted, so they did. How we deal with this as a country is going to decide whether we can keep going as a democracy. So far, I’m hopeful that we’re bigger than this shitstain on the country.

  8. 8.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 9:46 am

    The NRA. Evangelical churches. They’re both money-laundering vehicles for Russia and used to influence voters on the right.

  9. 9.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    January 18, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @Daddio7: Sorry, tovarich troll, it conveys exactly the meaning it says it conveys, which is “how much money did the NRA spend on its top contributions?” and whether they won.

  10. 10.

    Weaselone

    January 18, 2018 at 9:47 am

    @Daddio7:
    The money listed is only that from the NRA. Not sure how opponent’s funding or even the candidates additional sources of funding are relevant. All of these races were competitive or at least appeared to be.

  11. 11.

    Mike R

    January 18, 2018 at 9:47 am

    They all thought they could do anything they wanted, so they did.

    Sums up the state of republican governance. May they all be exiled to some small uninhabited island that they may create their own Gault’s gulch.

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    January 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    @Daddio7: Pretty sure you’re a troll, but on the off chance you aren’t, I provided a link to the article about the NRA’s investment in these highly competitive races.

  13. 13.

    MattF

    January 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    Turns out, though, that gun sales have declined lately. LaPierre’s sponsors probably aren’t so happy these days.

  14. 14.

    Chyron HR

    January 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    @Daddio7:

    I eagerly await your wholly rational explanation of how the “Democrats abandoned” the 2016 presidential race.

  15. 15.

    Roger Moore

    January 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    @Mike in DC:

    Dissolve the NRA and the national infrastructure of the Republican party under RICO.

    So much this. I want these fuckers destroyed root and branch. Plow them under and salt the ground. Put a stake through their heart, cut of their head, fill their mouth with consecrated hosts, and bury them in an unmarked grave at a crossroads at midnight.

    @manyakitty:

    And that it’s smoking because a failson just shot off a buttock.

    I’m sort of hoping for a multiple murder/suicide. It would be poetic justice given their deals with the NRA.

  16. 16.

    David Fud

    January 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    Your English is exceptional Comrade.

  17. 17.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    January 18, 2018 at 9:51 am

    BJers, please be aware that the Russian social media trolling operation never shut down and is likely going to be extremely active this very crucial year. Let’s try not to let them hijack the conversation the way they did in 2016. Spread the word.

  18. 18.

    Just One More Canuck

    January 18, 2018 at 9:51 am

    “blood-gargling sociopath” – A thing of beauty is a joy forever

  19. 19.

    Roger Moore

    January 18, 2018 at 9:51 am

    @MattF:

    Turns out, though, that gun sales have declined lately. LaPierre’s sponsors probably aren’t so happy these days.

    I’m not so sure. We assume they’re rational people primarily interested in money, but there’s no solid evidence for that. Given how partisan the NRA has been recently, it’s entirely possible they care more about electoral outcomes than profits.

  20. 20.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 18, 2018 at 9:55 am

    @Chyron HR: By not nominating Wilmer, who totally would have won. Duh.

  21. 21.

    MattF

    January 18, 2018 at 9:55 am

    @Roger Moore: Which is why I specified LaPierre’s sponsors. Wrt LaPierre, I agree with Betty’s characterization.

  22. 22.

    Matt McIrvin

    January 18, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @MattF: I used to think the NRA was basically an industry lobby, but if they just wanted to sell guns, they’d support Democrats (they’d have to do it under the table, though). Electing Trump is bad for sales. I think they’re really something more like an apocalyptic cult at this point.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    January 18, 2018 at 9:59 am

    Trump’s base won’t care, because winning is everything. If they didn’t care about his comparison of a porn star after having sex to his daughter, they won’t care about anything. He could use a gun manufactured in russia to kill someone on 5th avenue and they won’t care.

  24. 24.

    Spanky

    January 18, 2018 at 9:59 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Shut down? No way! Sugar daddy Vlad tripled their office space. And now with the (Orthodox) holidays well out of the way everyone’s back at work. Three shifts! 24/7!

    Good thing we’re only a top-10,000 blog.

  25. 25.

    The Moar You Know

    January 18, 2018 at 10:03 am

    BJers, please be aware that the Russian social media trolling operation never shut down and is likely going to be extremely active this very crucial year. Let’s try not to let them hijack the conversation the way they did in 2016. Spread the word.

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: This is true. I’m seeing their shitpostings everywhere. Including #2 here.

    I would bet my house that they’re funding this “New California” bullshit that some useful idiots are trying to get on the ballot here.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    January 18, 2018 at 10:03 am

    @Roger Moore: I follow their TV channel on Twitter, and it’s a cesspit of lunacy. They’re basically a terrorist organization at this point.

  27. 27.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 18, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @Chyron HR: Is that Glenn Greenwald’s Intercept? Hmmm.

  28. 28.

    Ian

    January 18, 2018 at 10:04 am

    If it’s true that they engaged in some light treason, could we shoot them? It’d be ironic justice.

  29. 29.

    The Moar You Know

    January 18, 2018 at 10:05 am

    I used to think the NRA was basically an industry lobby, but if they just wanted to sell guns, they’d support Democrats (they’d have to do it under the table, though). Electing Trump is bad for sales. I think they’re really something more like an apocalyptic cult at this point.

    @Matt McIrvin: They’re a PAC and I believe are registered as such.

  30. 30.

    Tokyokie

    January 18, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Didn’t the Spanish newspaper El País have a major story about Russian-NRA collaboration several months ago?

  31. 31.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:06 am

    Let’s hope Mr. Mueller finds the smoking gun.

    Let’s, but someone is still going to have to explain it to the public.

    If you’re not that plugged in it probably sounds like this:

    “The Russian government wanted Trump and a GOP Congress”. Okay. Why? “To sow chaos”. And then what? Exploit what advantage, enact what policy, be the dominant international player, why? Is it to benefit the plutocrats in both countries? Is it to advance Russia’s national interest or is it to advance Putin and the plutocrats personal interests?

    The NRA raises money and lobbies not just to own GOP lawmakers, but because they want GOP lawmakers to DO or NOT DO something. Why, specifically do Putin + plutocrats want Republicans elected?

  32. 32.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 18, 2018 at 10:07 am

    I noticed nexus between NRA, conservative Catholics and evangelicals after Sandyhook. I am pretty sure it existed even before then. Obama’s reelection made many softcore racists and bigots give up their flimsy veil of grudging acceptance of those not like them.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    January 18, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @MattF:

    Which is why I specified LaPierre’s sponsors.

    I’m talking about his sponsors, too. Corporations are run by people, and those people bring their prejudices and political beliefs with them to work. I am becoming convinced the gun manufacturers are run by people who genuinely believe the crazed NRA propaganda about Democrats coming for our guns and who care more about partisan electoral results than selling more guns.

  34. 34.

    But her emails!!!

    January 18, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    They probably were once. They probably underwent a transition similar to the Republican Party as a whole.
    1. Originally, the NRA was about gun safety, training and to a large extent more like a sporting club.
    2. The manufacturers essentially sponsored a coup and the victors then rewrote the NRA rules to keep the result from being reversed
    3. Gun nuttery has basically been used to keep people supporting the NRA positions that favor increased firearms sales.
    4. The nutters eventually took control of the asylum. So now it’s all about the gun, nuttery even if it hurts sales

  35. 35.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 10:11 am

    @The Moar You Know:

    I would bet my house that they’re funding this “New California” bullshit that some useful idiots are trying to get on the ballot here.

    They are. Their goal is a divided and weakened America.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 10:11 am

    Southern Utah students disciplined after posting racist photo to Instagram on MLK Day: ‘happy national ni**er day’
    January 17th 2018

    (KUTV)- Members of the Hurricane community and Washington County School District officials are “disgusted” by an Instagram photo that was posted by two Hurricane High School students on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

    The photo shows one of the female students pretending to hang herself, with “x” drawn onto her eyes and it captions “happy national ni**er day.”

    Steven Dunham, Director of Public Relations with the school district tells 2News that action has been taken on these two students but they cannot say what those consequences are for now.

  37. 37.

    JPL

    January 18, 2018 at 10:11 am

    Are there emails involved?
    just askin

  38. 38.

    dr. luba

    January 18, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @MattF:

    Turns out, though, that gun sales have declined lately. LaPierre’s sponsors probably aren’t so happy these days.

    Why would Putin care about American gun sales?

  39. 39.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:15 am

    I think Democrats are relying to a certain extent on “Russian government bad”. I get it, I really do, conservatives spent 50 years insisting they were anti-Russian government so the bullshit is fucking infuriating but doesn’t someone have to explain WHY specifically it is bad that Trump and the GOP were elected with the backing of Putin? How will this impact people?

    With the NRA Democrats say “look at the gun slaughters” and that’s the argument. We don’t just object to “the NRA” generally. We object to unregulated weapons purchases and use. I think we have to explain in the same way with Russian influence.

    Putin runs the GOP. Okay. Then what happens? Why is it bad?

  40. 40.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    January 18, 2018 at 10:15 am

    @rikyrah: Well, that’s just lovely. I hope they come down hard on these kids. I know, I know, kids do dumb shit. But this is beyond dumb shit, it’s borderline terrorism. I think that calls for some fairly harsh punishment. At the least they need their asses expelled.

  41. 41.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 10:15 am

    Breathe in….
    Breathe out….

    Ok, I’m gonna say it again…

    WHAT IF….

    44 had Craig Robinson working in the WH?

    WHAT IF…..

    Craig Robinson couldn’t get a Security Clearance?

    YEAH….I KNOW….

    The curve for Unqualified White Men is REAL!

    …………………………………

    JARED KUSHNER STILL DOESN’T HAVE SECURITY CLEARANCE AFTER A YEAR AT THE WHITE HOUSE
    1/17/18 AT 4:12 PM

    It’s been one year since Jared Kushner, senior adviser and son-in-law to the president, assumed office, but he’s yet to receive full security clearance for his role in the White House.

    The unprecedented delay in clearance represents a violation of security norms and suggests that Kushner continues to receive special treatment due to his relationship to President Donald Trump, according to legal experts familiar with the process.

    The White House has maintained that the delay is “completely normal,” and that there is extra scrutiny for advisers like Kushner who need the highest level of clearance. A White House official said that the process can take around 300 days: it’s now been 362.

    “It’s not normal,” Jordan Libowitz, communications director at Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington told Newsweek. “Jared has had issues with accuracy, both in his security clearance forms and financial disclosures. He’s had to amend his forms to add quite a few contacts with Russians, and he’s amended his financial disclosures 39 times. One or two times, no one would bat an eye, but this is unprecedented.”

  42. 42.

    germy

    January 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @But her emails!!!: I remember the letter George H.W. Bush wrote, resigning from their organization. After they referred to federal agents as “jack booted thugs.”

    This was in 1995, I think.

  43. 43.

    Jeffro

    January 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @Kay: because it’s pretty obvious- Republicans can be counted on to NOT put the interests of the country first

  44. 44.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @Yarrow:

    Their goal is a divided and weakened America.

    Is that a goal though, or is it a predicate or necessary condition to reaching a goal? Weakened and divided America so they can do what, exactly?

  45. 45.

    But her emails!!!

    January 18, 2018 at 10:18 am

    @Kay:

    The answer is staggeringly simple. Republicans suck at governing. They embrace policies that make the country weaker and erode our global standing. They get us bogged down in useless conflicts.That’s good for Russia. It makes us less able to respond to their moves.

    Republicans suck. That’s why Putin supports them and no patriotic american ever should.

  46. 46.

    jharp

    January 18, 2018 at 10:20 am

    Helluva thing.

    I have no doubt they are selling less guns after Trump’s win.

    And I especially enjoyed Gander Mountain, who bet big on guns sales, go out of business.

    Gone. Bankrupt. Here’e to hoping the gun makers got fucked bigly

  47. 47.

    germy

    January 18, 2018 at 10:20 am

    @rikyrah:

    two Hurricane High School students on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. The photo shows one of the female students pretending to hang herself, with “x” drawn onto her eyes and it captions “happy national ni**er day.”

    But I was assured by a commenter here that once “all the baby boomers die out” we’ll be just fine as a country.

  48. 48.

    Ruckus

    January 18, 2018 at 10:20 am

    @Kay:

    Russia’s national interest or is it to advance Putin and the plutocrats personal interests?

    Hasn’t Putin’s personal interest become Russia’s national interest?

  49. 49.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 10:21 am

    @Kay:

    I get it, I really do, conservatives spent 50 years insisting they were anti-Russian government so the bullshit is fucking infuriating but doesn’t someone have to explain WHY specifically it is bad that Trump and the GOP were elected with the backing of Putin? How will this impact people?

    I don’t understand why this is hard.
    This is treason.
    Use the word. Get comfortable with it.
    And say it every chance you get.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 10:23 am

    Republicans play a deeply cynical game with children’s health care
    01/18/18 08:41 AM
    By Steve Benen

    ……………………………..

    In other words, Republicans saw CHIP has a handy bargaining chip to be exploited for political gain – which is precisely what they decided to do this week.

    With time running out before a government shutdown, House GOP leaders added a six-year extension of the Children’s Health Insurance Program to their stopgap spending bill, along with a series of tax breaks intended to undermine the Affordable Care Act. The House Republican leadership published this stunning tweet yesterday:

    “Children’s lives are at stake. It’s time for our friends across the aisle to stop playing games with CHIP funding.”

    It followed House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) telling reporters that it’s “unconscionable” for Democrats to oppose CHIP funding. Several GOP lawmakers held a press conference accusing congressional Dems of failing to support “American children.”

    I’ve been following politics for quite a while. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen political tactics this cynical.

    Let’s review some of the basic truths that Republicans are hoping you don’t know. Last summer, Democrats urged the GOP majority to reauthorize the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and Republicans ignored the request, choosing instead to focus on repealing the Affordable Care Act.

    In the fall, Democrats tried again, reminding the Republican-led Congress that funding for CHIP expired at the end of September. GOP leaders again blew off the appeals, focusing instead on giving the wealthy massive tax breaks.

    In the ensuing months, Democrats pushed CHIP, again and again, but to no avail. Republicans said they’d get around to the issue eventually, but it simply wasn’t a top priority for the party. GOP leaders could’ve brought the Children’s Health Insurance Program up for a vote at any time, and it would’ve passed easily, but they didn’t.

    This week, all of a sudden, Republicans have re-discovered the issue – not because they suddenly care, but because they’re hoping to pit CHIP beneficiaries against Dreamers, playing one progressive priority against the other.

    Now, the House Speaker who could’ve made CHIP a priority before, suddenly believes it’s “unconscionable” for Democrats to oppose a deeply partisan stopgap spending bill.

    If there’s a defense for cynicism this brazen, it’s hiding well.

  51. 51.

    MomSense

    January 18, 2018 at 10:23 am

    Does anyone else remember that shortly after the election someone from the trump campaign made a comment about not needing to have their campaign do GOTV because of groups like the NRA that did a lot of that work for them.

  52. 52.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:24 am

    @Jeffro:

    I don’t think it’s obvious. I mean, I think it’s about corrupt rich people in both countries angling for some additional advantage but that’s me. Mueller’s result (if any) will be narrow – based on a violation of a statute. He won’t explain what the point of this is and was, what the ideological goals or policy results will come out of an alliance between Putin + plutocrats + Republicans.

    That’s outside his area. Someone will have to explain it.

  53. 53.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 18, 2018 at 10:24 am

    @germy: That’ll teach you to read the comments here.

  54. 54.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 10:25 am

    @Kay:

    Putin runs the GOP. Okay. Then what happens? Why is it bad?

    It’s not really that hard to explain that one of our two main political parties and all their elected officials being owned by a foreign enemy state is bad for our country. There’s a word for it in common parlance–treason. If we’re at the point that we have to explain why treason is bad, that’s a bigger problem.

  55. 55.

    The Moar You Know

    January 18, 2018 at 10:25 am

    They probably were once. They probably underwent a transition similar to the Republican Party as a whole.
    1. Originally, the NRA was about gun safety, training and to a large extent more like a sporting club.
    2. The manufacturers essentially sponsored a coup and the victors then rewrote the NRA rules to keep the result from being reversed
    3. Gun nuttery has basically been used to keep people supporting the NRA positions that favor increased firearms sales.
    4. The nutters eventually took control of the asylum. So now it’s all about the gun, nuttery even if it hurts sales

    @But her emails!!!:The Washington Post did a great rundown of what happened. The manufacturers had nothing to do with it, but ran with the increased sales. It was lunatics from day 1 (#4).

    NRA’s True Believers

  56. 56.

    Roger Moore

    January 18, 2018 at 10:27 am

    @Kay:

    “The Russian government wanted Trump and a GOP Congress”. Okay. Why? “To sow chaos”.

    It’s not to sow chaos. It’s to serve Russia’s (or Putin’s) geopolitical interests. They got the Republicans to change their party platform on Ukraine, which is clearly an issue for Russia. They lobbied Trump about Magnitsky Act sanctions, which again are critical to Russia, or at least Russia’s criminal/plutocratic ruling class. Trump appointed a bunch of people who are deeply enmeshed with Russian business, e.g. Tillerson and oil, Wilbur Ross and money laundering through Cyprus, etc. I agree that this stuff needs to be spelled out, but it’s clear Putin had more in mind than just sowing chaos.

  57. 57.

    germy

    January 18, 2018 at 10:27 am

    During the campaign, Trump was an outspoken advocate of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, at one point drawing a hail of criticism by suggesting that, if Clinton were elected, gun rights advocates could stop her from winning confirmation of liberal Supreme Court justices who support gun control laws.

    “If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do folks,” Trump said at a rally in August 2016. “Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.”

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html#storylink=cpy

    (translation: “Shoot the b***h!”)

  58. 58.

    Tokyokie

    January 18, 2018 at 10:28 am

    @Kay: Here’s my thought as to why Putin wants the current GOP in power: Putin is a gangster, nothing more. He was able to seize control of a major portion of Russia’s economy by using the power of the state to intimidate rivals. Had Russia been a country with a concept of rule of law, he never would have been able to do so. Because Putin can only succeed in an environment in which rule of law does not exist, it is in his interests (not necessarily Russia’s, but certainly his) to expand the boundaries of lawlessness. And if he can get the No 1 power in the West to discard more than 200 years of tradition of respecting the rule of law in exchange for short-term gain, he will be the most powerful man on Earth. In today’s GOP, he found the perfect ally in this quest, and in Trump, a man with a similar distaste for rule of law but utterly lacking in the intelligence necessary to become the world’s top gangster, he has the perfect pawn.

  59. 59.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 18, 2018 at 10:29 am

    @Kay: I think that Russia’s goal is much more defensive than offensive. Putin wants to stay in power. That’s it. In order to do that, he’s co-opted the Russian Orthodox Church and some of its memes, like homophobia, and claims to be a champion of conservatism. His moves in Ukraine were defensive because he saw Ukraine moving toward the West.

    Putin sees America as responsible for Ukraine’s moves and unrest in other former Soviet states. Russia is still a conglomeration of multilingual statelets, many of which host nationalists. He worries that Russia could still come apart the way the Soviet Union did, but into smaller pieces. And then where would he be?

    For that matter, there are movements toward more democracy in Russia. The Bolotnya Square demonstrations in 2012 and Alexei Navalny today scare Putin, and he probably sees an American hand behind them. As far as I know, there’s no American influence there beyond some of our organizations that promote democracy generally. But Putin sees the American hand everywhere.

    So throwing a wrench in America’s works is a good thing in his book.

    ETA: I think that Roger Moore and Tokyokie have parts of the puzzle too. But the baseline is that Putin stays in power.

  60. 60.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 10:30 am

    @Kay: Reduce American power. Weaken our ties to Europe so that Russia can have more influence there. Concurrent goal is to make sure Putin and Russian oligarchs can keep their money.

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    January 18, 2018 at 10:31 am

    @Tokyokie:

    Good analysis.

  62. 62.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 10:33 am

    Trump administration bars Haitians from U.S. visas for low-skilled work
    Yeganeh Torbati
    5 MIN READ

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Haitians will no longer be eligible for U.S. visas given to low-skilled workers, the Trump administration said on Wednesday, bringing an end to a small-scale effort to employ Haitians in the United States after a catastrophic 2010 earthquake.

    The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) announced the change less than a week after President Donald Trump reportedly questioned in an Oval Office meeting why the United States would want to take in immigrants from Haiti and African nations, referring to them as “shithole” countries. Trump has denied using that word.

    DHS said in a regulatory filing that it was removing Haiti from lists of more than 80 countries whose citizens can be granted H-2A and H-2B visas, given to seasonal workers in agriculture and other industries.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:36 am

    @Tokyokie:

    I basically see it the way you do but I think someone has to connect this for people. Putin is really bad for the Russian public- the people there. They’re poor and getting robbed and cheated and they have very few civil rights and no civil liberties.

    That’s why it would be bad for Americans if Republicans allied with him. Not “America” the state, but Americans. Tell them what happens if this alliance succeeds.

  64. 64.

    But her emails!!!

    January 18, 2018 at 10:36 am

    @Kay:

    Their goal is a divided and weakened America.

    Is that a goal though, or is it a predicate or necessary condition to reaching a goal? Weakened and divided America so they can do what, exactly?

    It’s both.
    1. It’s an end goal in that Russia wants us to suffer the pain and humiliation they did after losing the Cold War, or simply they like lots of Republicans just want the other guy to suffer.
    2. It’s a means to an end in that a weaker US leaves them more open to act on their regional ambitions without fear of US interference. A weaker US economically, means less money to oppose them. A weaker US diplomatically means greater difficulty putting together sanctions or placing international pressure on them. A US bogged down in conflicts all over the globe limits our ability to respond militarily.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    January 18, 2018 at 10:37 am

    @Kay: I don’t think Putin’s interests are that complex. He wants to Make Russia Great Again, and the surest way to do that is to weaken the West–first and foremost the US, then Europe.

  66. 66.

    But her emails!!!

    January 18, 2018 at 10:37 am

    @The Moar You Know: Interesting. The more you know…

  67. 67.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 18, 2018 at 10:38 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    His moves in Ukraine were defensive

    First time I’ve ever seen invading a neighboring country and annexing its territory by force of arms referred to as “defensive” actions.

  68. 68.

    germy

    January 18, 2018 at 10:39 am

    Trump was set to meet with Alexander Torshin in February before the National Prayer Breakfast. The meeting was canceled the night before when an NSC staffer blew the whistle and flagged Torshin as a potential Russian mobster… /3/https://t.co/k4YjETvV03— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) January 18, 2018

    Torshin and Trump have reportedly known each other since at least 2012. According to Bloomberg, the two "had a jovial exchange at the NRA convention in Tennessee in 2015."…interesting how this keeps circling back to the NRA, isn't it?/7/https://t.co/r8ox53Q3n8— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) January 18, 2018

  69. 69.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 18, 2018 at 10:40 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Defensive in the sense that he didn’t want European/American influence any closer.

  70. 70.

    Roger Moore

    January 18, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I think that Russia’s goal is much more defensive than offensive.

    I think they’re primarily defensive in motivation, but defensive imperialism still winds up involving a lot of offensive tactics. Trying to rebuild the Russian/Soviet empire has already involved invading one of his neighbors, and I really doubt Ukrainians know or care that his motivation for starting a war with them is ultimately about defending Russia.

  71. 71.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 18, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Kay: Study what happened to India when the British took over. It was a gradual process, took them 100 years to bring the whole country under their heel. From being one of the wealthiest countries in the world it became synonymous with poverty, they bled it dry. Ordinary Indians died in the millions of preventable famine and illness due to British policies.

    May be if he Russians succeed like the British did, we will be watching shows in 200 years of what a wonderful man Putin was ( PBS’s Victoria)
    Our national treasures will be in the Hermitage.

  72. 72.

    Emma

    January 18, 2018 at 10:44 am

    @Kay: I can give you part of the answer. Putin hates the United States because he sees them as the winner of the Cold War and by extension the destroyers of the Soviet Union. He also sees it as the brake on his insane overreach for global power. If we become a second-tier nation the road is wide open.

    Also, never forget the Russian (from Tsarist to present) desperate desire to control warm water ports. What access to the sea Russia has is compromised by ice. They want complete control of the Black Sea so badly they can taste it.

  73. 73.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 18, 2018 at 10:46 am

    @Roger Moore: I agree. If Ukrainians (or anyone else) care about figuring out and countering Putin, they’d better understand what motivates his moves.

    When I say “defensive”, that’s a descriptor, not a defense.

  74. 74.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 10:46 am

    @But her emails!!!:

    Republicans suck. That’s why Putin supports them and no patriotic american ever should.

    Putin doesn’t “support them.” He’s using them. It’s important to remember that Russia has been working both ends of our political spectrum. The right with NRA, evangelical churches and so forth. The left is not immune and a lot of the split on the Dem side in 2016 was encouraged and supported by Russia. Given the energy on the Dem side this year I expect that Russia’s focus will be on the left. We need to be aware and paying attention and ready for that.

  75. 75.

    J R in WV

    January 18, 2018 at 10:47 am

    @Daddio7:

    You are so wrong right off the top. If a single nickel or Russian was spent on a single federal race by the NRA they’re guilty of a federal crime. If they donated to 7 or 8 races they should be prosecuted under RICO and confiscated out of existence, like so many violent KKK groups have been.

    Whether the races were competitive, whether the Democratic party was working hard in those races, all that would be an interesting part of the story, which is not contained in toto here, but is completely irrelevant to the criminality of the action, if Russian monies were involved, as seems pretty likely at this point.

    $30 million spent in politics is so much less expensive than any launch of any ind of modern weapons. And has so much more impact once these politicians are locked up under their control.

  76. 76.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 18, 2018 at 10:49 am

    I also doubt that Putin is trying to rebuild the Soviet/Russian empire. But there is always a temptation for Russia, with its continental borders, to build a neutral zone around itself. Then that neutral zone has to be defended, which means more territorial acquisition. That’s the story of Russian expansion from the 16th century on.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:50 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Thanks. Obviously I’m a Democrat and if I put myself in the shoes of someone sporadically listening to this I’m afraid it sounds like “Trump! Russia!” and I’m a really receptive audience so if it sounds like that to me we may be in trouble.

    Trump! Russia! is enough f one has a well-developed and well-informed backstory or theory but I don’t think most people do. I think a lot of people are like “it’s bad because they are Communists. Are they still Communists? Maybe not. What is this about, again?” :)

    I feel like Trump knows this. That’s why he does that riff on “why can’t I form alliances with Putin?”

  78. 78.

    germy

    January 18, 2018 at 10:50 am

    @Emma:

    What access to the sea Russia has is compromised by ice.

    Not for long.

  79. 79.

    MattF

    January 18, 2018 at 10:57 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: Historically, Russia expanded until it got stopped. By the Poles, by the Finns, by the Japanese, by the Turks, by the Chechens, et cetera. Europeans are well aware of this history– Americans, not so much.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 10:58 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I watched the Falcon and the Snowman with my youngest the other night and OMG, there’s a lot to explain here! Just the US political side is complicated. “Well, US conservatives used to be anti-Russian government because of X and Y and NOW you’re hearing that Trump is allied with Russia because of Z and maybe also Q, but Russia is totally different because it’s a different kind of authoritarianism, one that is oligarch-based, but with a police state” This is a really complex backstory we’re assuming they all know. They don’t know it. I would bet my house on it.

  81. 81.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 18, 2018 at 10:58 am

    @Kay: Yes. The connections with Russia are so many and so convoluted that I can’t fully keep track, and I spend a fair bit of time on that.

    I’ll write a post for later today on the NRA developments and some other things I’ve been thinking.

  82. 82.

    Weaselone

    January 18, 2018 at 10:59 am

    @Yarrow:
    You’re being a bit pedantic here. I didn’t mean support like ” Huzzah Republicans, go beat that other party.” I meant the Russian deployment and utilization of resources favors Republicans, whether it’s in the form of monetary and social media support for Republicans or fomenting internecine conflict among Democrats.

  83. 83.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 11:03 am

    @Kay: Trump/Russia is a TERRIBLE name for what has happened. It’s not just Trump. It’s not even just Republicans. Our entire political system has been attacked and to a certain extent influenced by Russian involvement. Every tactic they have, from active measures to disinformation and provocation they used on us. It’s NOT just Republicans, although, they are worse and, as Adam keeps pointing out, are vulnerable to blackmail because their hacked emails were never released. Democrats are involved in it too.

    And it’s not just politicians. Every aspect of our culture has been attacked to a certain extent. Did this article about Russia targeting political journalists ever make it here?

    The Associated Press found that Lobkov was targeted by the hacking group known as Fancy Bear in March 2015, nine months before his messages were leaked. He was one of at least 200 journalists, publishers and bloggers targeted by the group as early as mid-2014 and as recently as a few months ago.

    The AP identified journalists as the third-largest group on a hacking hit list obtained from cybersecurity firm Secureworks, after diplomatic personnel and U.S. Democrats. About 50 of the journalists worked at The New York Times. Another 50 were either foreign correspondents based in Moscow or Russian reporters like Lobkov who worked for independent news outlets. Others were prominent media figures in Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltics or Washington.

    Sweden is starting a program to educate its citizens about disinformation and help them understand how to combat it. We need something along those lines as well.

  84. 84.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 11:08 am

    @Weaselone: I didn’t see that I replied to you, unless you’re the same person as “But her emails!!!” But in any case, please do not discount the social media and financial support for the leftwing side of things here. That is where the energy will go for this year’s election. My take on it is that it favors Republicans at the moment, but if the left wing side of things started to take over the Democratic party we would see much more “support” from Russia for Dems.

  85. 85.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 11:09 am

    Racist White Girl Kicked Out of University of Alabama for Her Racist Instagram Rant

    Monique Judge
    Yesterday 5:30pm

    Did you know that if you are from New Jersey but go to college down South—say, in Alabama—you can use the n-word as much as you want? Even if it’s Martin Luther King Jr. Day? I had no idea, but thankfully, a University of Alabama sorority girl was here to educate me.

    According to her Facebook page (and her inflammatory and racist Instagram video), Harley Barber is from Marlton, N.J. She is a student at the University of Alabama, where she is also a member of Alpha Phi sorority. She has always wanted to be a member of that sorority, ever since she was in high school.

    From what I can gather from her Instagram video, someone told Barber’s sorority that she might be a little bit racist. It is possible that the sorority pulled Barber to the side about it, because the result is a 56-second Instagram video in which she rants about someone trying to snitch on her to her sorority and about how, since she was now down South, she could say the word “nigger” as much as she wanted.

    Two videos from Barber’s alleged “Finstagram” (fake Instagram) were posted to Twitter by Twitter user @TabisBack.

    In the first video, Barber encounters a faucet running, wasting water. She turns off the water and says, “We don’t waste water because of people in Syria.”

    She then says, “I love how I act like I love black people because I fucking hate niggers, so that’s really interesting. I fucking hate niggers, but I just saved the fucking niggers by shutting that water off.”

    …………………………………………………………..

    Updated Wednesday, Jan. 17, 2018, 5:30 p.m. EST: The University of Alabama is now confirming that Harley Barber is no longer enrolled at the school.

    UA President Stuart Bell issued the following statement, which was shared to the university’s Twitter account:

    In light of the racist and disturbing videos posted by one of our students on social media, I want to express my personal disgust and disappointment.

    Like many of you, I find the videos highly offensive and deeply hurtful, not only to our students and our entire University community, but to everyone who viewed them. The actions of this student do not represent the larger student body or the values of our University, and she is no longer enrolled here.

    We hold our students to much higher standards, and we apologize to everyone who has seen the videos and been hurt by this hateful, ignorant and offensive behavior. This is not who we are; it is unacceptable and unwelcome here at UA. These types of incidents affect community members differently. If you have been impacted and would like additional support, please access resources here that are available to you on our campus.

    Over the last year, I have had conversations with many of you who shared your UA experiences with me. You have voiced your pride in the progress we have made, but we still have much work to do. I want to thank all of the students, faculty and staff who met today to have conversations about this event and the steps we can take, individually and collectively, to create a more welcoming and inclusive campus. You have my commitment and the commitment of our leadership team to sustain progress and address directly any issues that arise.

    I know you join me in taking a stand against this and all reprehensible behavior. As members of this community, we are a family and this is our home. Everyone has a right to feel safe and welcome here

    .

  86. 86.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 11:09 am

    @Yarrow:

    Thanks. As you know though, 90% of people are doing other stuff. I’m not slamming them. They have to work, they have to care for other people, they have recreational activities they enjoy. They aren’t gonna get 100 years of Russia/US relations via a crash course.

    This they might get:

    Collapsing numbers for US around the world — striking findings from Gallup>>Souring World Views of Trump Open Doors for China and Russia

    This really hurt Bush. Republicans pretended it was just “elites” who cared about the US stature in the world but people did care that so many countries hated us. Obama basically ran on it.

  87. 87.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 11:11 am

    Workshops help parents have ‘the talk’ with kids on what it means to be black in the US
    By CANDACE SMITH
    ALEXA VALIENTE
    Jan 16, 2018, 4:03 P

    Winston Harris remembers watching the video of Philando Castile after he was shot by Officer Jeronimo Yanez of Minnesota’s St. Anthony Police Department back in 2016.

    “You know those seven shots … the video hit me so hard and so deep,” Harris, 19, told ABC News’ “Nightline.” “As each shot rang out I could feel it. Not like actually, but, like, I could feel it, like, each time, like, bang, bang, bang, like I could just feel it. Like in my chest like seven beats.”

    In Castile’s face, the Philadelphia native said he saw his own.

    “A video like that can have [an effect] on the person, you know, especially if he’s the same skin color,” Harris said.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    January 18, 2018 at 11:14 am

    The Republican in the PA House race is running on Social Security.

    Shameless liars. Ohio has a sentencing enhancer that comes in for certain crimes where elderly people are robbed or defrauded.

    It should be applied to GOP politicians.

  89. 89.

    CarolDuhart2

    January 18, 2018 at 11:16 am

    Google “Demographic Winter”. Russians and Republicans see the world passing them by, and by cooperating they hope to stop the changes. Both groups have declining fertility, declining economic plight, connect the two.

  90. 90.

    Humdog

    January 18, 2018 at 11:19 am

    @rikyrah: it is really awful that the recordings that prove police mistreatment of POC are simultaneously snuff porn for those who love the mistreatment and revictimization of POC. To a lesser extent the MeToo stories are similar. Recounting stories of sexual assaults to prove their ubiquity also get rapists’ rocks off. The stories need to be told but what of those who repeatedly suffer through trauma of the stories?

  91. 91.

    geg6

    January 18, 2018 at 11:25 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    This.

  92. 92.

    bemused

    January 18, 2018 at 11:29 am

    @rikyrah:

    Ugh. And that sorority video, yeech.

  93. 93.

    J R in WV

    January 18, 2018 at 11:35 am

    This here tells us almost everything we need to know about the FTFNYT:

    Fancy Bear, the well known Russian Federation cyber-criminal institute has been busy working on journalists.

    The AP identified journalists as the third-largest group on a hacking hit list obtained from cybersecurity firm Secureworks, after diplomatic personnel and U.S. Democrats. About 50 of the journalists worked at The New York Times.

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 11:36 am

    @J R in WV:

    You are so wrong right off the top. If a single nickel or Russian was spent on a single federal race by the NRA they’re guilty of a federal crime. If they donated to 7 or 8 races they should be prosecuted under RICO and confiscated out of existence, like so many violent KKK groups have been.

    yes…

    YES!!!

  95. 95.

    Yarrow

    January 18, 2018 at 11:37 am

    @J R in WV: Yes. I’m surprised the article wasn’t front paged here. It didn’t receive that much attention as far as I could see. It needs to be seen.

    And, as I said above, it’s not just journalists that are compromised, nor just politicians. Every aspect of our culture has been targeted. The NRA is the story today. Can’t wait for the evangelical church leaders and affiliated organizations (Focus on the Family, etc.) to get their day in the sun.

  96. 96.

    laura

    January 18, 2018 at 11:43 am

    @rikyrah: But Craig Robinson has a skill, has an first rate education, had loving parents who expected effort by their children -actual merit. He doesn’t have a history of shady dealings, or criminal convictions in his family, Craig Robinson’s dad never spent a day in a federal lock up, never took a hit out on his brother. Just went to work, driving that bus, year after year, despotentially illness that shortened his life, and denied him of witnessing the contributions his children have made
    IN SERVICE TO OTHERS.
    So there’s that.

  97. 97.

    PaulWartenberg

    January 18, 2018 at 11:54 am

    hey gun nuts, remember when you worried about them dirty Russians coming to pry your rifles from your cold dead hands?

    turns out, you sold yourselves out to the Russians without ever firing a shot.

    how does it feel to be cheap suckers getting bought out like this?

  98. 98.

    PaulWartenberg

    January 18, 2018 at 11:58 am

    @Kay:

    the Russians may no longer be Commies but they ARE RUSSIANS.

    what the hell are the Republicans and their deep-pocket backers like the NRA doing GETTING THIS AMOUNT OF AID FROM A FOREIGN POWER?

    I remember when there was enough of a scandal regarding Bill Clinton and possible Chinese backing during the 1996 election. Whatever the GOP is doing with Russia – not just trump, the whole damn party – is 100 times more direct and damaging.

    Citizens United has led directly to foreign meddling, espionage, and outright TREASON. the hell is this.

  99. 99.

    rikyrah

    January 18, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    These guys are all tied up in this shit together. There’s no other plausible way to explain all this shit. They all thought they could do anything they wanted, so they did. How we deal with this as a country is going to decide whether we can keep going as a democracy.

    I hear you.
    I hear you.

  100. 100.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 18, 2018 at 12:22 pm

    @Kay: Recreate the Soviet Empire, and crush all the now independent states beneath them.

  101. 101.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 18, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Exactly, they will discard their allies (uber lefties, Rs) when they are no longer necessary.

  102. 102.

    AM in NC

    January 18, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    @Kay: My take would be that Russia has hundreds (thousands?) of nuclear weapons pointed at us, and we at them. They are not our allies; they are our geopolitical adversaries. Putin and Russia want to weaken the US any way they can in order to increase their own power and influence in the world – at our expense. Working together with them to undermine our elections is treason, pure and simple. Accepting money from them to run campaigns is treason, pure and simple.

  103. 103.

    Mnemosyne

    January 18, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Geez, when you’re too racist for Alabama…

  104. 104.

    catclub

    January 18, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    @But her emails!!!:

    So now it’s all about the gun, nuttery even if it hurts sales

    It might not hurt sales at all.

    I think it may turn out to be easier to convince a gun nut to buy 5 more guns than to find 5 non gun-owners to buy a gun.

    And that adds up to some serious money.

  105. 105.

    Mnemosyne

    January 18, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @PaulWartenberg:

    I remember when there was enough of a scandal regarding Bill Clinton and possible Chinese backing during the 1996 election.

    Clinton (allegedly but not actually) taking money from China was bad because you just can’t trust Those People.

    Taking money from Russia was right and good because they’re white.

    It really is as simple as that when you’re a racist.

  106. 106.

    Jack the Second

    January 18, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    Has anyone else noticed that we mainly get the Russian trolls in the morning and early evening? Does Balloon Juice not rate a third shift troll?

  107. 107.

    Honus

    January 18, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    @Kay: simple. Republican policies are destroying our country. The US being weak is good for Russia.

  108. 108.

    JR

    January 18, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    @Kay: I’m not Adam but I would hypothesize three goals:

    1) Financial; Russian investments in US interests both above board and below, benefit from GOP policies. Russian leaders of state are oligarchs more so than nationalists so their personal interest comes first.

    2) Idealogical; the GOP is aligned with Russian power in opposition to some strains of Islamist extremism. Of course this is largely limited to national interest since neither has any particular investment in weakening their favored authoritarian theocratic client states. This would be the weakest tie that binds IMHO.

    3) Weakening the US as a global military and soft power. Beyond the sowing of domestic discord, Trump has fulfilled the Russian aims of weakening US international alliances and soft power. I don’t think Russia is going to fill the breach however.

  109. 109.

    Capri

    January 18, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    @Kay: I don’t know what is in Putin’s mind of course, but I think to understand the reason why Russia would want an ineffective America you have to think in terms of local Russian politics and their position in the world. They want to export their natural resources it is the vast majority of their wealth. This means pipelines through other countries. They don’t want the pesky US harping on human rights and the rule of law when they deal with their neighbors on the international stage. The fact the one thing Trump (or his people) wanted changed in the platform was their position on the Ukraine was a tell. How what they are doing affects folks in the US is of no concern either way.

  110. 110.

    Citizen Alan

    January 18, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    @PaulWartenberg:

    Truth. Had Al Gore been elected in 2000, he almost certainly would have faced impeachment over that time he called a Chinese-American donor and used the wrong phone.

  111. 111.

    catclub

    January 18, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    How about Marco Rubio?

    I am old enough to remember that Marco Rubio said he would not run for re-election if he did not win the presidential nomination.

  112. 112.

    MattF

    January 18, 2018 at 1:59 pm

    @Mnemosyne: She used the n-word, repeatedly. And, she noted that doing so is allowed in Alabama. So.

  113. 113.

    Bill Arnold

    January 18, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    @The Moar You Know:
    I did a search on the nym for #2 (plus site:balloon-juice.com) and there are plenty of normal looking comments, in similar language. Not feeling the Russian-ness; maybe I’m just weak of mind today?
    Anyway, agreed that we need to stay alert through 2018.

  114. 114.

    Joe Miller

    January 18, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    I have what I think is a pretty good assessment of Putin and his motives:

    https://jmillersexcerpts.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-strange-election-of-2016-part-one.html

  115. 115.

    Captain C

    January 18, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    But the baseline is that Putin stays in power.

    Given that he’s done a great job of making himself the One Essential Man, it’s going to be a real mess when he finally croaks; possibly making the situation in Yeltsin years look like that of a boring*, prosperous Scandinavian country.

    *boring in the spirit of the curse “may you live in interesting times”

  116. 116.

    Captain C

    January 18, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @rikyrah: So who’s going to work at Mar A Lago?

  117. 117.

    Daddio7

    January 18, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: So how is NRA money more effective than Soros, or whoever elses money funded the Democratic candidates? Without a total of the money spent for each candidate how is only the NRA money relevant? Do we now need a financial statement from every donor to ascertain where each dollar can from?

  118. 118.

    Tehanu

    January 18, 2018 at 9:50 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I want these fuckers destroyed root and branch. Plow them under and salt the ground. Put a stake through their heart, cut of their head, fill their mouth with consecrated hosts, and bury them in an unmarked grave at a crossroads at midnight.

    You forgot the part where they’re hanged, drawn, and quartered, then the pieces are cut down and arrested!

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