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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Late Night Russiagate Open Thread: (Anti) Social Notes

Late Night Russiagate Open Thread: (Anti) Social Notes

by Anne Laurie|  January 21, 201812:18 am| 84 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Russiagate, Assholes, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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Natalia Veselnitskaya attended a black-tie inaugural party hosted by the campaign committee of Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, according to an associate who accompanied her. https://t.co/2308ZNDKXu

— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) January 20, 2018

RUS NEVER SLEEPS! Among the many stories that slip below public purview — but not, one assumes, the eyes of Mueller’s Marauders — when the Repubs are busy manipulating the Toddler-in-Chief…

As questions about Russia’s interference in the 2016 election were beginning to percolate publicly, prominent business leaders and activists from the country attended inaugural festivities, mingling at balls and receptions — at times in proximity to key U.S. political officials.

Their presence caught the attention of counterintelligence officials at the FBI, according to former U.S. officials, although it is not clear which attendees drew U.S. government interest. FBI officials were concerned at the time because some of the figures had surfaced in the agency’s investigation of the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, the officials said.

An FBI spokesman declined to comment on security concerns related to the inauguration. White House officials did not respond to requests for comment.

The Washington Post identified at least half a dozen politically connected Russians who were in Washington on Inauguration Day — including some whose presence has not been previously reported. Among them was Viktor Vekselberg, a tycoon who is closely aligned with Putin’s government…

Other Russian inaugural guests included Boris Titov, a politician and business advocate who is running for president of Russia with the Kremlin’s blessing…

Michael McFaul, who served as ambassador to Russia under Obama, said he did not recall prominent Russian visitors at Obama’s 2009 events. “It’s strange,” McFaul, the director of the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford, said of the number of influential Russians in attendance last year.

Some Russian guests at Trump’s inauguration said they got tickets through U.S. political contacts.

One venue for credentials was the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which provided a slew of perks — such as tickets to events with Cabinet appointees, congressional leaders, the vice president-elect and Trump — to donors who gave at least $25,000.

Only U.S. citizens and permanent residents are legally permitted to contribute to an inaugural committee. Several U.S. business executives with ties to Russia together donated $2.4 million to the inaugural committee, campaign finance records show…

Trump’s inauguration was celebrated jubilantly in Moscow, where Putin supporter Konstantin Rykov hosted an all-night party. Champagne flowed as an interpreter narrated the new U.S. president’s speech.

In Washington, the Russian Embassy tweeted, “Happy #InaugurationDay2017!” with a photo of people gathered in front of the Lincoln Memorial.

The optimism was part of a larger embrace by Russia of Trump’s “America First” outlook, which emphasizes U.S. business interests and national security over promoting freedom and democracy abroad, said Ilya Zaslavskiy, a researcher who has worked with the Hudson Institute’s Kleptocracy Initiative…

Titov, like several of the Russian elites who attended Trump’s inauguration, declined to say how he obtained his tickets, only that they came “via our friends — entrepreneurs in the Republican Party.”…

It’s not as though there were so many Americans clamoring for tickets that people were being turned away, after all. There was plenty of prime space for well-heeled Russian buyers to inspect their new purchase up close. (Much more detail at the link.)

***********
Sad trombone coda:

Nigel Farage gave Julian Assange data on USB stick, US congressional enquiry hears https://t.co/U5FksK513g pic.twitter.com/R6bLQn8tzH

— FRANCE 24 English (@France24_en) January 20, 2018

It's a Global Axis of Douchebags https://t.co/zBjVGhSzGC

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) January 20, 2018

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84Comments

  1. 1.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 12:22 am

    O/T, but it was too cute: I went to the SF Women’s March today. Three kids (knee-high to a grasshopper, srsly) marching arm-in-arm: “We’re not Trump! And that’s our super power!”. Over and over. In unison and realy loud. Loved it! LOVED IT!

  2. 2.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 21, 2018 at 12:22 am

    It was reported at the time that Jared and Ivanka invited the Abromoviches. Who are Russian oligarchs very close to Putin and very close friends of theirs.

  3. 3.

    cain

    January 21, 2018 at 12:24 am

    I’ve been liking Tom Nichol’s snark on this whole thing. I certainly don’t agree with a number of his stances, but he’s definitely the most human conservative out there. Must suck to be partyless, floating out in the void.

  4. 4.

    Mary G

    January 21, 2018 at 12:26 am

    @Chet Murthy: I liked the picture of the toddler barely old enough to walk clutching a sign saying “I’m 6’3” and 239 pounds. “

  5. 5.

    cain

    January 21, 2018 at 12:27 am

    @Chet Murthy:
    We had 9 year old girls marching with a horn, and they were just going at it. It was good times.

    I think the thread was dead earlier, but after the Denver march, I got to meet up for lunch with some folks who are running local offices and one elected representative. It was neat to connect to the people running for office here in the fine state of Colorado. We’re going to turn this state blue, money is coming in from eveyrwhere.. People are ready to take this state out of being purple.

  6. 6.

    cain

    January 21, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    How unsurprising…

    I’ve been finding the new love affair between Russians and evangelicals to be dour and irritating. They are united in their hate.

  7. 7.

    Yarrow

    January 21, 2018 at 12:30 am

    It wasn’t just the inauguration.

    senatorchuckgrassley My table mate at National PrayerBreakfast is Mr&mrs Makarov He is long time member of Russian Parliament Chairing Budget&Taxation Committee

    Link to Grassley’s Instagram post with photo of them.

  8. 8.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 12:30 am

    Joan Walsh says the most popular sign she saw at this year’s Women’s March said “grab ’em by the midterms.”

    The marchers look so happy in Twitter pix- like they’re having fun. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a protest that looks like more like a street party.

    My favorite sign is “please note the lack of Nazis at OUR rallies”

    Please note :)

  9. 9.

    Mike J

    January 21, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @Adam L Silverman: And Chelski won 4 nil today.

  10. 10.

    NotMax

    January 21, 2018 at 12:36 am

    It’s cherepakhas all the way down.

  11. 11.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 12:37 am

    Austin, TX broke the record for largest gathering in Texas history. #WomensMarch2018

    It looks HUGE. It’s amazing that they planned this so quietly and under the radar. It’s hard to get all those people out, and all over the country.

  12. 12.

    wuzzat

    January 21, 2018 at 12:38 am

    The Washington Post identified at least half a dozen politically connected Russians who were in Washington on Inauguration Day — including some whose presence has not been previously reported. Among them was Viktor Vekselberg, a tycoon who is closely aligned with Putin’s government…

    So, like, a third of the attendees then?

  13. 13.

    MobiusKlein

    January 21, 2018 at 12:38 am

    The SF march was such a hoot. Even the cops were laid back about the whole thing.

    My only complaint was about the Socialists, with their megaphones, and banners that stretched across all of Market street, and their slow marching that caused a backup behind them.
    No, Palestine is not our #1 priority at the moment, sorry

  14. 14.

    danielx

    January 21, 2018 at 12:40 am

    It’s a Global Axis of Douchebags https://t.co/zBjVGhSzGC

    — Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) January 20, 2018

    In that first pic, does Farage resemble McConnel without glasses or not?

  15. 15.

    MobiusKlein

    January 21, 2018 at 12:40 am

    Crabs, I forgot about the rules of B-juice, where you can swear to your heart’s content, but one mention of Soc***ism, and the FuckYouWordPress effect hammers you down.

  16. 16.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @Kay: Unfortunately, I’ve seen and been at way too many of them. The protests against the Iraq War in 2002 and early 2003 were like that, and so was a fair bit of Occupy in 2011. Street parties, creative signs, DJ’s, puppets, costumes, completely wildly undisciplined messaging. And totally ineffective.

    The most effective protests I’ve seen are the ones that look like a fucking army coming to march on your castle and behead you– but in a dignified, peaceful way. The threat is implied, not overt. Identical shirts, disciplined, unified messaging. Many speaking with *one* voice, rather than many voices speaking in chaos. The Latino protests in 2004 were like that (a sea of people in identical white golf shirts), and of course Dr. King’s protests in the early 1960s, with everyone in their best black suits and ties and Sunday dresses.

    The smartest thing the Women’s March protests did is identical pink pu$$y hats everywhere. This is an army of women coming to get you, and they’re pissed off.

    The only thing that power understands is power. You have to scare the fuck out of the assholes. Look like an army marching, and deadly serious. Street parties don’t do that.

  17. 17.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 12:47 am

    @wuzzat:

    They’re on it! A year after he’s in office. Just getting around to identifying the Russian plutocrats who are Trump backers. They weren’t hiding! They were issued invites, even!

    Trump probably had a row up front labeled “shady Russian plutocrats seating section”

  18. 18.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 12:49 am

    @Kay: Unfortunately, I’ve seen and been at way too many of them. The protests against the Iraq War in 2002 and early 2003 were like that, and so was a fair bit of Occupy in 2011. Street parties, creative signs, DJ’s, puppets, costumes, completely wildly undisciplined messaging. And totally ineffective.

    The most effective protests I’ve seen are the ones that look like a fucking army coming to march on your castle and behead you– but in a dignified, peaceful way. The threat is implied, not overt. Identical shirts, disciplined, unified messaging. Many speaking with *one* voice, rather than many voices speaking in chaos. The Latino protests in 2004 were like that (a sea of people in identical white golf shirts), and of course Dr. King’s protests in the early 1960s, with everyone in their best black suits and ties and Sunday dresses.

    The smartest thing the Women’s March protests did is identical pink pu$$y hats everywhere. This is an army of women coming to get you, and they’re pissed off.

    The only thing that power understands is power. You have to scare the fuck out of the assholes. Look like an army marching, and deadly serious. Street parties don’t do that.

  19. 19.

    MobiusKlein

    January 21, 2018 at 12:49 am

    The SF march was such a hoot. Even the cops were laid back about the whole thing.

    My only complaint was about the Soc***ists, with their megaphones, and banners that stretched across all of Market street, and their slow marching that caused a backup behind them.
    No, Palestine is not our #1 priority at the moment, sorry.

  20. 20.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 12:51 am

    @MobiusKlein: The ANSWER people drove me bananas in 2002 and 2003. We were protesting invading Iraq, and they hijacked the whole thing to wail about Palestine.

  21. 21.

    Suzanne

    January 21, 2018 at 12:51 am

    I have my sign ready for the March tomorrow. It is red with one word in white sand-serif text: NYET!

    I also made one for Spawn the Younger, which reads “Trump is not invited to my birthday party”.

  22. 22.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 12:52 am

    Belt of Orion, 3 minute exposure, 200mm.

  23. 23.

    Anne Laurie

    January 21, 2018 at 12:56 am

    I have a post on the Women’s March scheduled for 9:30am EST tomorrow, so more people will be able to see it. Congrats to all who participated — you get to mock those like me, who weren’t paying enough attention in advance!

  24. 24.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 12:56 am

    @Suzanne:

    I also made one for Spawn the Younger, which reads “Trump is not invited to my birthday party”.

    He’s not invited to mine either, then again my b-day plans* have turned to shit again.

    *We were supposed to go out for dinner either today or tomorrow, but scheduling and madame’s flu have scuttled that.

  25. 25.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 12:56 am

    @fuckwit:

    I just don’t criticize people who show up, as a general rule. Every protest there’s suggestions on how it could be more effective or the protesters are doing it wrong. Those who show up get to decide what they do when they get there.

    It’s a massive organizing effort to get that many people to God knows how many locations all on the same day. I think they did a great job. They really do have a specific goal, too. More women voting and more women running for office. They’ll have a hell of a big list, and a big list is a kind of currency in organizing. It’s valuable.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    January 21, 2018 at 1:01 am

    @Suzanne

    Not in any way castigating, as it’s an innocent typo for sans-serif. Mentioned solely because it reminded me of a member of the stable of characters in The Spirit.

  27. 27.

    MobiusKlein

    January 21, 2018 at 1:01 am

    @fuckwit: The nice thing about the grassroots un-choreographed protesters is that the ANSWER style folks stick out so much as obviously latching on to the larger effort.

  28. 28.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 1:01 am

    @fuckwit:

    The only thing that power understands is power. You have to scare the fuck out of the assholes. Street parties don’t do that.

    I think we’re still in the phase where “we” believe that we’re the majority. Or that our institutions will allow the majority to be heard. If those two assumptions are wrong, I think you’ll see a serious change in the way protest manifests. Obviously I don’t look forward to that. And hopefully it’ll never come to pass. But if so …. I’d expect everything from the 60s: both civil rights movements a la Dr. King and his cohort, the Black Panthers, Malcolm X, and even more. B/c there are too many mixed-race children in this country for their parents and relatives to put up with this white supremacist shit.

    But really, we can all live in hope that such measures won’t be needed. If they are, again with so many young mixed-race young people, I live in hope.

  29. 29.

    frosty

    January 21, 2018 at 1:04 am

    @NotMax: Someone else who knows The Spirit! Yay!! Gotta say P’Gell was my fave.

    ETA: I have a sudden urge to go find all those comics at 1:00 in the morning.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 1:08 am

    @Chet Murthy:

    It really is a different time, too. There aren’t going to be marches with young men in suits and women in Sunday dresses anymore. These women weren’t organized at a church and they don’t even wear Sunday dresses to church on Sunday. I think it would be really off-putting to most women if they were marching in regiments.

    It’s quite clear what they’re saying. They’re saying they’ll VOTE, not storm the Texas statehouse and hold the legislature hostage.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    January 21, 2018 at 1:08 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Sounds as if some best wishes are in order! May your days be merry and bright, and may all your f-stops be just right.

  32. 32.

    Redshift

    January 21, 2018 at 1:17 am

    @fuckwit: Yes, you’ve told us before about the one true way to protest. The March a year ago had a street party atmosphere and none of the regimentation you deem essential.

    Tell fifteen former Republican state legislators in Virginia how “ineffective” the Women’s Marches are. Organizing and getting out the vote is power. Looking scary in the streets isn’t, at least not by itself.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    January 21, 2018 at 1:17 am

    McCain: As Reps and Dems run…to point fingers and assign blame, the hard reality is that all of us share responsibility for this failure

    This is always such a dumb thing to say. If everyone is responsible than no one is responsible. There should be a word for fake “taking of responsibility” , like “humble brag” but when you’re shifting responsibility and pretending to take it.

    “Mistakes were made” comes closest, I guess.

  34. 34.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 1:18 am

    @NotMax: Thanks, I’ll be shooting some pics.

  35. 35.

    eclare

    January 21, 2018 at 1:21 am

    Happy Birthday! Hope the flu clears up quickly both for her sake and yours so that you can have a nice dinner!

  36. 36.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 21, 2018 at 1:21 am

    @Chet Murthy:
    https://www.marxists.org/archive/giap/1961-pwpa.pdf

  37. 37.

    JWR

    January 21, 2018 at 1:21 am

    Back in 2002-03, one thing I remember hearing about ANSWER was that they were great at getting a LOT of people to the marches, but that they allowed anyone with an agenda to speechify, which led to our local morning drive-time, (pro-war), FM DJ’s to replay those speeches for laughs and giggles, which they used to smear the entire event.

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    January 21, 2018 at 1:22 am

    @frosty

    The term is too often bandied about willy-nilly, but genius in his field can be applied to Will Eisner without hesitation.

    An Eisnerian detail which, AFAIK, the producers of TV and movie versions of The Spirit consistently missed or ignored entirely is that he never wears socks.

  39. 39.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 1:23 am

    @Kay:

    They’re saying they’ll VOTE, not storm the Texas statehouse and hold the legislature hostage.

    And I pray that it’ll never come to that. But imagine a world where 2018/2020 go to the enemy. The ENEMY. Then you can imagine that we’ll start (just as in Spain) training for violent insurrection. And before that, there’ll be more (ahem) -organized- resistance. B/c fuckwit is right: at some point, you gotta kick “power” in the ass and tell him who’s boss.

    Again: I don’t expect it to happen. But if there comes a moment where large local majorities realize that their existence is imperiled by white supremacy, then the resistance will manifest itself differently.

    Right now, again, “we” are showing what democracy and “identity politics”is all about:

    all for one and one for all.

    Kay, I don’t mean this as any pushback on your point-of-view. Truly, I hope it’ll never get worse than an interesting-and-amusing 2018 election. B/c me? I’ve got one working eye, I’m 53, and if there’s a war, I’m nothing better than cannon-fodder. I’ll die first, to prevent others from dying. So no, I don’t want it to get there. Our side is acting on the assumption that we’re still a democracy. I sure hope we’re right.

  40. 40.

    Suzanne

    January 21, 2018 at 1:25 am

    @NotMax: It was a DYAC moment.

    Phoenix’s march is tomorrow, not sure why,

  41. 41.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 1:29 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, funny you mention this. Recently I read _The Best and the Brightest_ and _They Thought They Were Free_ (Milton Mayer). I was going to read Hanoi’s War (by Lien-Hang Nguyen) next.

    In a vague way, I’m trying to understand the rise of fascism and its various correlated diseases in the body politic. From the p.o.v of both the empire, and its opponents.

    I know of General Giap. And was planning to read his book. But yeah, in the context of the current conversation, I sure sure sure as hell hope it never comes to that. B/c it’d be a worldwide calamity.

  42. 42.

    frosty

    January 21, 2018 at 1:36 am

    @NotMax:

    he never wears socks.

    A detail I never noticed. I’ll dig them out tomorrow. They’re from the 70s, probably the Kitchen Sink versions. I also learned tonight that Jules Feiffer worked with him. Loved his stuff in the 60s. I haven’t found my favorite online though. It went something like this:

    Grain storage?
    Strained canvas?
    Do you mean brain damage?
    God, I hope so!

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 21, 2018 at 1:36 am

    @Chet Murthy: Now available at Amazon for 1.99 for Kindle.
    https://www.amazon.com/Peoples-War-Army-Insurrection-Underdeveloped/dp/0898753716

    If you do it through the Balloon Juice link I don’t get any money out of it.

    And there’s also this:
    http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/FMFRP%2012-15%20%20Small%20Wars%20Manual.pdf

    And with that I’m to bed with dreams of loading a pack mule with rice for an assault on the Himalayas dancing in my head.

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 21, 2018 at 1:40 am

    @Chet Murthy: I highly recommend Bernard Fall’s books on the Vietnam War.
    https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Very-Small-Place-Siege/dp/B01L7YL6K0/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1516516747&sr=1-2&keywords=bernard+fall+books
    https://www.amazon.com/Street-Without-Joy-Indochina-Stackpole/dp/0811732363/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1516516661&sr=8-2&keywords=bernard+fall+books
    https://www.amazon.com/Last-Reflections-War-Bernard-Fall/dp/0811709043/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1516516661&sr=8-5&keywords=bernard+fall+books

    And give this a read:
    http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20151031_art009.pdf

  45. 45.

    NotMax

    January 21, 2018 at 1:48 am

    @frosty

    Even some of the attempts at revivals in the comics screwed it up.

    Am the owner of a drawing of a brooding Spirit by Bill Sienkiewicz. He spent two or more hours on it and afterwards thanked me for asking for a drawing of a character he liked and wasn’t associated with (and could draw in his sleep) and mentioned how much he enjoyed the chance to do it.

  46. 46.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 1:56 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you, Adam!

  47. 47.

    T S

    January 21, 2018 at 1:56 am

    I think everyone should get mentally prepared for Mueller to complete his investigation…and not actually bring down the Trump administration. Barring severe incapacity, I think he’s here til 2020. Mueller isn’t going to clean out all the rot, and probably will barely put a dent in it. Some lawyers and Trump biz execs might go down for money laundering….and that’s it. Afterward, Trump’s still going to be our embarrassment of an executive, the congressional GOP is still gonna be doing its evil, and Hannity will still be spewing vomit live on tv, Devin Nunes will be sippin’ that Russian funded wine as a free man.

    And I’m not being defeatist (so shutup, CS). Just saying…GOTV matters. Calls matter. The political process is all there is. There’s zero sudden salvation on the horizon. Mentally, one has to stay dug in.

  48. 48.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 2:02 am

    @T S:

    Mentally, one has to stay dug in.

    You’re right, and the mental frame I’ve adopted is “how much would you invest, in money and time, as an insurance policy against a civil war?” Everyone has a different answer to that question. But honestly, I think that’s where we’re at, today. *today*.

    If we show the motherfuckers that we’re serious, that it’s a civil war they’re looking at, they’ll blink. And the only way to do that, is to go ball-to-the-wall and kill all their tribunes. oust them all, throw them all in prison, etc. Otherwise, it’s the destruction of our democracy, and after that, it’s civil war.

    So yeah, we’re still acting as if we’re living in a democracy. But it’s “as if”.

  49. 49.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 2:04 am

    @T S: Also, you forgot to add: “it doesn’t matter -what- Mueller hands down: (a) the president cannot be indicted, (b) he can pardon anybody he wants, and (c) Congress has to impeach him”.

    If we don’t flip Congress in 2018, our democracy is in jeopardy. If we don’t do that in 2020, we’re fucked.

  50. 50.

    T S

    January 21, 2018 at 2:31 am

    @Chet Murthy: I hope it doesn’t come to that. I only posted that to just vent a bit because I see on other sites people posting things like (paraphrasing) “When is Mueller gonna take down that clown Hannity…” in all seriousness. Okay, that’s so far removed from reality, that the person thinking like that is going to be traumatized to all hell when this whole Mueller thing raps up and nothing like they were fantasizing about comes to pass. Nov 2016 trauma, or worse. Of course, shit will be lit then. I really don’t want that to happen though. I want an election, people to vote out these clowns, and have reasonable expectations for what the Dems can accomplish with the media, the right wing media, Russian trolls, and whoever else trying to compromise our national cohesion and strength.

  51. 51.

    Aleta

    January 21, 2018 at 2:32 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Astounding. Thank you.

  52. 52.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 2:47 am

    @T S: Everything you said. 100% agree. All of it. Lordy I hope we all do what we need to do, to recover our democracy, …. such as it is. One thing’s for sure: I’ll never (again) pretend that our democracy has anything over other nations. Never again. I’d given up on “our unique brand of (non-crony) capitalism” around the 2008 crash, but (maybe) for sentimental reasons had held onto the idea that our democracy was still …. real. Ah, well. The veil falls at age 52.

    P.S. “recover our democracy” != “put all these treasonous motherfuckers in jail”. B/c I know that’s not going to happen. Won’t stop me (if we’re in that oh-so-lovely timeline) from screaming at my tribunes to go after the Putin-felchers. But do I -expect- it? No. Sadly.

  53. 53.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 3:02 am

    @Chet Murthy:

    the president cannot be indicted

    Why not? That’s only the decision that the Watergate prosecutor made, that’s not settled law.

  54. 54.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 3:03 am

    @Aleta: You’re welcome, I’m working on a few long exposure fisheye shots right now.

  55. 55.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 3:06 am

    @Chet Murthy: I’m about the same age as you and I realized that we don’t have a democracy, we have a candy-coated kleptocracy, maybe 20-30 years ago. I discovered this due to immersing myself in teachings of the wise and prescient political philosophers Frank Zappa, George Carlin, Jello Biafra, and Bill Hicks.

    That said, we *can* have a democracy, if people actually participate in it. If that’s what comes out of all this, then it’ll be a net positive in the long run.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2018 at 3:12 am

    Geez, a million women in pink hats take to the streets all over the US today, and the only thing that the armchair warriors who didn’t bother to show up want to do is shit all over those women for not protesting “right.”

    It’s okay, fellas. We already know you’re all talk and no action, so you don’t have to prove it yet again.

  57. 57.

    Emerald

    January 21, 2018 at 3:13 am

    @T S: 0
    I think it’s more likely that Mueller will find a helluvalot, including Trump’s criminal money laundering going back decades, and possibly even a violation of the Espionage Act of 1917 (I’m thinking of that code-level information from Israel that he gave to the Russians in the Oval Office). Maybe much, much more.

    And the House and Senate will do absolutely nothing about it.

    And that’s when we’ve really got to hit the streets, and stay there. Because even if we win the midterms in a tsunami, we can’t get 2/3 of the Senate, so even if we impeach him we can’t convict and remove.

    So. Streets.

  58. 58.

    Aleta

    January 21, 2018 at 3:15 am

    @fuckwit: It’s a very good point. There’s more than one dimension (or whatever it’s called) going on though. The mass of pink hats was so moving both in person and in photos, and made powerful photos that affected media coverage. I think the street fair energy–individual art and creative words–matters because it starts to rev the energy up in advance, bonds lots of small groups, gets watchers to cheer, which reflects the energy back and forth. (The creation of the pink hats did that also.).

    Maybe it’s paradoxically a less chancy way for a large group to stay focused on unity. (Thinking out loud.). I also think it’s good to trust what happens naturally, since organizing and overmanaging can backfire into splinter groups.

  59. 59.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 3:24 am

    @Redshift: In and of itself, looking scary in the streets and having specific demands and clear messaging is the only way for the protest to be effective in obtaining those demands. MLK got the CRA and VRA. The Latino protests stopped the anti-immigration bills that the Republicans were trying to pass. Those were disciplined operations, not street parties.

    Yes, you can still get a lot of value out of protests even if they don’t succeed in their immediate goal. I view that as a salvage operation, and not very efficient. The 2002-2003 protests were an utter failure at stopping the war, but they got some people like me involved in politics and set the stage for 2006 and 2008 wins. The 2011 Occupy protests were a complete failure at reforming the financial system and eliminating income equality, but they got lots of young people involved and introduced important concepts into the narrative like the 1% (and paved the way for Wilmer, which may or may not have been a good thing). The Women’s Marches, if they lead to more women getting involved and staying involved, tackling local and state races, organizing for the midterms, registering people to vote, and running for office, all of which seem to be happening, will be very valuable, and likely can save the country. My point is that I see these as side-effects of protests.

  60. 60.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 3:26 am

    @Mnemosyne: Meh, I showed up in 2002-2003 and 2011. Didn’t feel like it was any kind of success. I hope you have better luck this time.

  61. 61.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 3:30 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    We already know you’re all talk and no action, so you don’t have to prove it yet again.

    Hey, I resemble that remark.

  62. 62.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 3:34 am

    @Mnemosyne: @fuckwit: fuckwit, with respect, you’re operating on the assumption that the marchers/protesters are not the majority (that instead, like the black civil rights marchers, like the latino marchers, they need to -convince- the majority). And I suspect Mnem is operating under the assumption they are the majority. Heck, I sure hope we are, friends. I sure hope we are. If we’re the majority, we damn well need to act like we are. It’s *completely* consistent with the way the protests have worked. Mnem’s right, that for sure, this is the right way to approach the situation … until and unless we learn that we no longer live in a democracy. At that point, well, things’ll change. But for now? She and every organizer of these marches is -right-. Let a million flowers bloom, as long as their pollen is all going up Cade Bone Spurs’ nose and giving him hay fever.

    ETA: short version: I think you’re right, Mnem. At least I hope you are, b/c really, I enjoy my current life.

  63. 63.

    Chet Murthy

    January 21, 2018 at 3:37 am

    @fuckwit: Lemme make a prediction: If Putinfluffer tries to get us into a shooting war (ok, ok, ok, a -major- shooting war, instead of these “police actions” in Syria etc), the reaction will be -so- severe, he’ll be driven from office posthaste. This isn’t 2002-3, my friend. The populace now understands the price of apathy in the face of our tribunes’ malfeasance.

    Or at least, I hope. [of course, even if this is right, it won’t last for long.]

  64. 64.

    fuckwit

    January 21, 2018 at 3:37 am

    And yes, I’m nitpicking. It doesn’t and shouldn’t take anything away from the gratitude I feel for everyone getting involved who hadn’t been until now. Let the seas of pink hats get even larger. Thanks for showing up, and staying involved, and I’ll be happy to work under your leadership at the phone banks in the fall.

  65. 65.

    Aleta

    January 21, 2018 at 4:13 am

    Essay by Masha Gessen, queer Russian-American Jewish 3x-emigre writer whose parents left the Soviet Union in the late 70s. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/02/08/to-be-or-not-to-be

  66. 66.

    Aleta

    January 21, 2018 at 4:38 am

    300,000 people joined the Women’s March in Chicago according to organizers, surpassing expectations and last year’s attendance.

  67. 67.

    sharl

    January 21, 2018 at 5:38 am

    @Aleta: Thanks for that link; I’m only part way through it, and I’m nodding off now, so the rest will have to wait. So far it’s interesting. It’s nice to have someone conversant in English and Russian write about her Russian life fluently in English. I always wondered years ago when I read Solzhenitsyn translations just what I might be missing.

  68. 68.

    rikyrah

    January 21, 2018 at 5:51 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: so cool, Bill?

  69. 69.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2018 at 5:58 am

    @rikyrah: Thanks, here’s one with the fisheye; also 3 minute exposure.

    (The white part around the edges is light pollution from the city.)

  70. 70.

    Zinsky

    January 21, 2018 at 6:16 am

    @T S: I think that is a fair analysis, T S. But, it is the Republican Congress that is the BIG problem! We have had incompetent and dishonest Presidents before. We have just never had such a partisan Congress at the same time, who are willing to look the other way when the Chief Executive is a brain-damaged, incompetent pervert, traitor and money launderer. Mueller could come back with 500 high crimes and misdemeanors against Trumpo and all these sadass Republicans would do is offer their “thoughts and prayers ” for the victims. Deal with them in 2018 by voting them out of office, THEN we start building the gallows for Trump!

  71. 71.

    Vhh

    January 21, 2018 at 6:23 am

    @T S: Nixon looked to skate for over 18 months, and then suddenly he didn’t. And Nixon and his cronies were far more competent than the Trumpkins, who hokf all three branches of govt and can’t pass a budget.

  72. 72.

    JGabriel

    January 21, 2018 at 7:20 am

    @T S:

    I think everyone should get mentally prepared for Mueller to complete his investigation…and not actually bring down the Trump administration.

    Perhaps. But I think that Trump is both more corrupt and stupider than Nixon – which makes it even more likely that he’ll get caught.

  73. 73.

    Matt

    January 21, 2018 at 7:24 am

    @Kay: Saw one on the Twitterz that wins the top prize: “I’d call him a CUNT but he lacks DEPTH and WARMTH”

  74. 74.

    JR

    January 21, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @fuckwit: I mean, it would be satisfying to see a modern version of the Women’s March on Versailles but fortunately our country is nowhere near as bad as that. At least not yet.

  75. 75.

    germy

    January 21, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @Vhh:

    Nixon looked to skate for over 18 months, and then suddenly he didn’t. And Nixon and his cronies were far more competent than the Trumpkins…

    The trumpkins have an advantage nixon didn’t enjoy: fox news, talk radio, hean shannity, the newer generation RW online, etc.

    John Dean recently said that if fox news et al. had been around during Nixon’s time, he probably would have gotten away with it.

    We need to vote them out. We need to address voter suppression. I’m optimistic (uncharacteristic of me).

  76. 76.

    fourmorewars

    January 21, 2018 at 8:01 am

    Speaking of sketchy attendees at Trump events, is that guy holding the ‘Blacks for Trump’ sign continuing to be allowed to stand near the idiot in chief at speaking events? Reportedly has a past featuring homicidal attacks against rivals, and yet the incompetent operation around Trump has over and over let him stand, not within ‘shooting distance,’ but within STABBING distance of Trump.

  77. 77.

    Just one more canuck

    January 21, 2018 at 8:05 am

    “(Anti) Social Notes”

    Somehow not anti-social enough

  78. 78.

    Captain C

    January 21, 2018 at 8:56 am

    @Adam L Silverman: As in the owner of Chelsea FC?

  79. 79.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2018 at 9:24 am

    @fuckwit:

    Okay, fair enough.

    I will say, though, that IMO the reason the Iraq war and Occupy protests weren’t very effectve is that most of the people who organized them bought into the “both sides!” narrative, which meant they couldn’t vote for either party and left them no avenues to actually change anything. The Civil Rights Movement was in large part a voting rights movement because the organizers knew that, in our system, you can’t change shit unless you get your politicians into office. Complaining that the Democrats and Republicans were equally responsible for the fiasco in Iraq actually gave the Republicans cover to do it because many of people who protested the war refused to vote for either party and Republicans kept winning elections. Even in 2016, I heard people say they refused to vote for Hillary because of her Iraq votes, and look where that got us.

    I have hopes that this whole Trump shitshow has actually woken people up to the fact that if you don’t vote, you can’t change anything. That’s really the difference in the protests.

  80. 80.

    sdhays

    January 21, 2018 at 10:15 am

    @Vhh: Nixon wasn’t half as guilty as Trump is. He’s been in violation of the Emoluments Clause from Day One, which is specifically itemized in the Constitution, and the Republicans don’t care. And because of this, they are already so far down the hole of allowing and enabling his lawlessness, if they finally decide something he did is worthy of impeachment, the whole house of cards will come falling down on their heads.

    They’ve joined themselves to Trump at the hip, and they won’t impeach him even if they have video evidence of him selling American spies directly to Putin himself. They can never admit to the horrible things they’ve ignored.

  81. 81.

    Another Scott

    January 21, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    @sdhays: Dead thread, but, …

    As we know, historical analogies only go so far. FDR was helped in getting his social programs through by worries about Communism and Fascism “inevitably” taking over. MLK was helped in getting the VRA and CRA by worries about how to win the Cold War and the war of Hearts and Minds in SE Asia, riots in cities, etc. Nixon was pushed out of office by worries that there was a “Constitutional Crisis” brewing if the Congress didn’t act.

    Whether Mueller’s findings result in Trump being pushed out is unknown. The GOP doesn’t seem to care about the US’s standing in the world from a propaganda standpoint any more. They only seem to care about pushing MAGA to their voters, no matter what the reality is. They don’t care about international agreements, except to the extent that their billionaire enablers are affected. Etc.

    Of course, the Administration isn’t speaking with one voice – the Money Launderers want to be able to do what they want with the oligarchs in Russia and China, while the new DoD Strategy Review says that we have to build up for a war footing with Russia and China and not worry about “terrorism” so much (while we expand our presence in Syria (and see a shooting war starting between our Kurdish proxies and Turkey) to fight “terrorism”)…

    It’s a mess and the mess will get worse.

    If/when the House and Senate flip, then the leadership flips. The leadership has a lot of power to determine what bills are considered, who chairs committees, what special committees are formed, etc. If the heat gets hot enough, and/or the inducements are large enough, members flip parties or resign to be appointed by governors or to be replaced by special elections. We can’t assume that just because only 8 GOP seats are up in November that it’s hopeless for a Democratic Senate to do anything about the conspiracy until after 2021. We just don’t know.

    We have to fight them every single day and work for the future we want to see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  82. 82.

    J R in WV

    January 21, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    @T S:

    Hopeful that in the hours after the inauguration of our next president, whoever that is, Trump is arrested before leaving DC pursuant to indictments handed up and sealed at the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, and unsealed at the moment he becomes ex-President.

    That would make for some good TV news, in my opinion. Hands cuffed and pushed into a plain old dirty police cruiser. Perhaps to DC lockup for trial for money laundering. Posting all his total worth as bail, handing in his passports. Limited to a suite at the two-star DC Trump Hotel, with a GPS bracelet on his ankle.

  83. 83.

    J R in WV

    January 21, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Bill, how many different exposures did you do there? Or have you done star photos enough to have a feel for exposure time at a given aperture for your cameras??

    Good job, better than I would have done I think.

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 21, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Captain C: Yep.

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