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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Not A Hoax: Open Thread

Not A Hoax: Open Thread

by TaMara|  January 21, 201812:19 pm| 66 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Assholes

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saw this going around and wanted to check for myself: here’s the message you hear today when you ring the White House comment line during the shutdown pic.twitter.com/sCquYj0XnX

— David Mack (@davidmackau) January 20, 2018

I really thought this had to be a joke, but nope, as far as I can tell it’s been verified by several news organizations. When I called, just a busy signal.

On a more positive note. This:

This is the shot I’ve hesitated to share. I don’t know why.

On the way home from the #WomensMarchNYC, across from me on the subway, was a single dad and his two daughters, exhausted. With signs, buttons, hats.

Good men: may we know them, may we be them, may we raise them.

Yes pic.twitter.com/vo09EGerYz

— ElizabethCMcLaughlin (@ECMcLaughlin) January 21, 2018

Here’s your mid-afternoon open thread.

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Previous Post: « Empowering Open Thread: The 2018 Women’s March
Next Post: Writers Chatting: Chapter 12 »

Reader Interactions

66Comments

  1. 1.

    TaMara (HFG)

    January 21, 2018 at 12:20 pm

    And this.

    Appalling. Vice President Mike Pence visits US military base in Jordan delivering campaign style speech blaming Dems for government shutdown, thus reducing our service men and women to mere props for personal political gain. Appalling, absolutely appalling. #TrumpShutdown pic.twitter.com/WNgMCXnAOg

    — Kristian (@ursusmiratus) January 21, 2018

  2. 2.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): yes. This is the most horrible thing I have ever heard of — was there ever a President or Vice President before who did anything — on foreign soil in a combat zone! — so partisan and reprehensible?

    I have never been a fan of impeachment when there is the possibility of self correction at the ballot box. But this, I believe, is impeachable.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    January 21, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    Supposedly, 80 percent of people support DACA. Time for them to stand up.

  4. 4.

    Humdog

    January 21, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    I fear the fear mongering plus an unengaged citizenry could work on opinions. Saying we Dems prefer dreamers to sick child citizens is a load of crock, but feels eerily similar to me being jazzed at the inclusiveness of the Dem convention while bigot America was freaked out about it. The media framing is clearly supporting the Republican racist attacks.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    January 21, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    If Schumer is going to get the blame, maybe he should be majority leader.

  6. 6.

    lollipopguild

    January 21, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    @Baud: ble? did you mean to type blame?

  7. 7.

    Baud

    January 21, 2018 at 12:31 pm

    @Humdog: Right. We need to redeem ourselves for that failure now.

  8. 8.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 21, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    @Baud: Who is going to give Schumer the blame? He’s not the Majority Leader.

  9. 9.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 21, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    @Baud: They did. Many of the marchers yesterday had pro-DACA/immigration signs.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    January 21, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    @lollipopguild: yes.

  11. 11.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    For those of us running Windows 95, and can’t play the tweet, what does the David Mack-mentioned message say?

  12. 12.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    January 21, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    This might seem elemental, but wouldn’t the fucking presidency be an essential service? I swear, this asshole will take any excuse he can find to weasel out of doing work.

  13. 13.

    Betty Cracker

    January 21, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    @Humdog: You are right to be concerned, IMO; it’s a very real risk. Saw an ad the Trump (permanent) campaign released yesterday that says Democrats are “complicit” in crimes undocumented immigrants commit. Trump’s demonization of immigrants has already resulted in bloodshed. They’ll stop at nothing and are perfectly happy to rip the country apart if they think they’ll wind up with the bigger piece. But we have no choice. We’re about to find out if there are more of us than them — if people on the sidelines are awake enough to make the right choice. That’s how we’ll know this country is still worth fighting for.

  14. 14.

    George

    January 21, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    I saw “The Cleaners,” a film about online content moderation, at Sundance last night. I recommend it. Not that I liked facebook or Zuckerberg before I saw the film, but now I loathe them even more.

  15. 15.

    Ryan

    January 21, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    What a damn child. Someone get Trump his binky! I hope someone has Richard Painter on Monday evening.

  16. 16.

    Ryan

    January 21, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): Still constipated I see.

  17. 17.

    Ryan

    January 21, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): He IS commander in chief, which means he leads the military, which is not shut down.

  18. 18.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Saw an ad the Trump campaign released yesterday that says Democrats are “complicit” in crimes undocumented immigrants commit.

    A DNC-friendly PAC should start running ads saying that Shitgibbon and his Maladministration are complicit in giving our country away to the Russians and Chinese, all so that Shitgibbon can cover up his financial crimes.

    A DNC-friendly PAC should start running ads saying that ZEGS and Turtle were and are complicit in allowing the Russians to compromise our Government — and by extension, complicit in giving away our National Security — just so they could stop Merrick Garland from taking his seat.

    And so on.

  19. 19.

    Mandarama

    January 21, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I know this has been said before, and more eloquently…but by their logic, Republicans are complicit in every death by gun violence in the United States. Particularly the acts of domestic terrorism. I would love to see them called out and have to carry that weight. (I’m not naïve enough to think they actually will.)

  20. 20.

    Baud

    January 21, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    WaPo

    But the situation wasn’t that simple. While Trump, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and other Republicans blamed the Democrats, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) made an effort shortly after midnight to get the troops’ salaries and death benefits paid through the shutdown.

    “I want to make sure that tonight we send a very clear signal that we don’t want one moment to pass with there being any uncertainty of any soldier anywhere in the world that they will be paid for the valiant work they do for our national security,” McCaskill said, calling for a resolution to pay the troops.

    McConnell scuttled the effort, objecting to her motion.

    https://washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2018/01/20/amid-government-shutdown-the-military-becomes-a-centerpiece-to-make-political-jabs/

  21. 21.

    HinTN

    January 21, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    So, I did as instructed by the sweet little voicemail and I left a message for the President* at White House dot gov:

    Since you have chosen to politicize the greeting on the White House answering machine, I choose to assert that you, Mr President, are an abject failure. Not a dealmaker, not a leader. Just a failing flailing little toddler out of your depth and sinking further.

  22. 22.

    tobie

    January 21, 2018 at 12:54 pm

    @SFAW: I’d love to know where the Democratic media effort is. I’m in a blue state, so maybe I don’t see it. But I do get Tom Steyer’s ads all the time.

  23. 23.

    JDM

    January 21, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    So the “both sides” position of the “yeah, sure they’re liberal” Washington Post is that both Republicans and Democrats are making “political jabs” with the military. The actual “jabbing” is that Democrats want to pay our troops and Republicans are refusing to pay them.

    Both sides.

  24. 24.

    HinTN

    January 21, 2018 at 12:57 pm

    @SFAW: The greeting on the White House answering service says they are shut down because of Democrat intransigence yada yada yada and please contact the President* at http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/contact

    ETA: Windows 95? FFS

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    @HinTN:

    Good message, but you might have considered adding:

    “And you also have a teeny-tiny pecker. You know how I know? Because you’ve talked about how big you are, and everyone knows that you’ve been lying about EVERYTHING since you started running for President. Or are you so stupid that you actually believe you only weigh 239?”

    Yeah, it’s childish, schoolyard taunting, but that seems to be the only thing he understands, and calling him Littledick might spike his BP enough.

  26. 26.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @HinTN:

    Thanks.

  27. 27.

    Fair Economist

    January 21, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    Pence has some nerve, blaming the Democrats for the armed services not getting paid when Republicans blocked a Democratic bill to pay them!

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    @tobie:

    I’d love to know where the Democratic media effort is.

    Join the crowd.

  29. 29.

    donnah

    January 21, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    That White House phone message is unbelievable, and I mean I can’t believe they would actually think that it was okay. This Administration is filled with the most absolute shitholes in the country. Fuck every single one of ’em.

  30. 30.

    SFAW

    January 21, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    @HinTN:

    Windows 95? FFS

    It was a semi-joke. I haven’t used that for at least 2 or 3 years.

    But every time I try to watch a tweet, Clippy tells me I’m screwed.

    [Yes, the “Clippy” thing is also a joke.]

  31. 31.

    Ryan

    January 21, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    @donnah: Remember when we thought of them as a basket of deplorables? Good times.

  32. 32.

    Suzanne

    January 21, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    I’m out here at the Phoenix Women’s March with the family. We haz fun signs.

  33. 33.

    BC in Illinois

    January 21, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    Pence, 58, has not served in the military.

  34. 34.

    HinTN

    January 21, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    Hark, the Senatortoise speaks of the intransigence of his friend across the aisle.

  35. 35.

    Gelfling 545

    January 21, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    So Chris Collins (R, of course -NY27) used questionable business practices. Naturally we are all surprised to hear it. http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/21/former-ceo-collins-manipulated-the-finances-at-firm-he-controls/?utm_campaign=puma&utm_medium=social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1516555441

  36. 36.

    donnah

    January 21, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    @Ryan:

    Yeah, “deplorable” isn’t bad enough as a descriptor. Actually, when it comes to describing Trump and the Republicans, there are no words bad enough. And, “I can’t believe it” doesn’t cover it, either.

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    January 21, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    @Humdog:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Saw an ad the Trump (permanent) campaign released yesterday that says Democrats are “complicit” in crimes undocumented immigrants commit.

    This is not just media framing. I noted during the craptacular Stephen Miller/Jake Tapper interview that Miller had talked about “real Americans” being besieged by “communities of crime,” a handy slur which can be deployed against both illegal immigrants and black people.

    Brick by brick, the Trump Administration has been selling and establishing a policy based on racial exclusion and demonization of nonwhites.

    Andrew Sullivan scrambled out from whatever rock he normally lives under to appear on the most recent Bill Maher episode to suggest that Democrats need to show that they understand the fears of regular Americans by maybe letting Trump have his wall (which he admits is a bad idea and probably would never be completed) and being tougher on immigration, and maybe backing off on their insistence that a DACA fix be part of a deal with Republicans.

    The right, including supposedly sophisticated conservative pundits, have internalized and normalized Trump’s nativist and blatantly racist agenda. They are also suggesting that Democrats need to embrace this as well if they expect to win in the future.

    The Democrats need to reject this and offer a clear alternative. Because otherwise, a victory which normalizes bigotry is no victory at all.

  38. 38.

    JPL

    January 21, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    @Suzanne: Take pictures! We love pictures.

  39. 39.

    Jay C

    January 21, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Actually, I think “complicit in murder” was the term used in the ad – not that quibbling over the precise language of vile crap like this makes much of a difference. I’ve also seen a few Republicans being interviewed on TV today and being gobsmacked at the message. My guess is that the Trump campaign (run by Dog-knows-who rodents) dropped the ad without telling (or clearing it with) anybody – about par-for-the-course with this clownshow of an Admin) – and it will have the usual negative effect: of changing the conversation from the details of legislative horse-trading to the nice simple one of “Republicans are calling Democrats murderers”. Good job, guys…

  40. 40.

    Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot

    January 21, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    We’re about to find out if there are more of us than them — if people on the sidelines are awake enough to make the right choice. That’s how we’ll know this country is still worth fighting for.

    That’s it in a nutshell. Our best and main chance to stop the ongoing fascist takeover is the ballot box 2018 and 2020. We miss those, we won’t be able to put humpty-dumpty together again, I’m afraid. Much of the damage will be irreversible in any reasonable timeframe. Hell, we’re already there with global climate change.

    And that’s a big fucking “if”. Are the people on the sidelines awake enough? I wish it were so, but I’m not terribly sanguine (which makes me one of the despised “doomers and gloomers”, I suppose). As you say, Betty, we’re about to find out.

  41. 41.

    MomSense

    January 21, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    Fire and fury is how I’m feeling right now.

  42. 42.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    I wonder how long it will take for “#thisain’tLost” to appear on a cubicle whiteboard in Mueller’s office.

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    January 21, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @Brachiator:

    have internalized and normalized Trump’s nativist and blatantly racist agenda.

    This certainly isn’t in any way new. For most of the press, this is their position as well and has been for a very, very long time.

  44. 44.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 21, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    @Humdog:

    but feels eerily similar to me being jazzed at the inclusiveness of the Dem convention while bigot America was freaked out about it.

    Keep in mind, we only lost because of an outdated undemocratic institution. We won the popular vote. The electoral college won’t be an issue in Congressional and state elections. If the special election swings are anything to go by, we’re likely to pick up at least the House assuming the enthusiasm stays what it is now. Letting “Trump be Trump” should help that. It’s true something a few months from now could change everything, but we can’t fret too much over that.

  45. 45.

    Calouste

    January 21, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    @Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot: If there is a ballot box. It’s pretty clear now, from the results of elections in this past year, that the Democrats will take over the House and quite possibly the Senate unless something drastic happens.

    That’s something drastic could be full Putin-style election fraud, stuffing ballot boxes, altering vote totals, the works.

    The other drastic thing that could happen is that the GOP tries to create the circumstances for an outright coup, and one of the things that could help to get that started is to keep the government shut down indefinitely. If there’s no deal for a few weeks, I think we’re heading in that direction.

  46. 46.

    FlipYrWhig

    January 21, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    I don’t think “Democraps HATE THE TROOPS!” has worked very well since about 2004. Every strategic communication they’re doing lately smells like mothballs.

  47. 47.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 21, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @Calouste:
    It won’t work, at least not the way the GOP would want. Millions of people are going to know how they voted and will riot if the ballots are “stuffed”. This isn’t Russia; we still care about the rule of law.

    As to your second scenario, who’s going to spring the coup? The military? I don’t think so.

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    January 21, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    @Ruckus:

    have internalized and normalized Trump’s nativist and blatantly racist agenda.

    This certainly isn’t in any way new. For most of the press, this is their position as well and has been for a very, very long time.

    Please give me an example in the last 25 years of the federal government explicitly excluding non-white people from being able to immigrate to this country and the mainstream press supporting that policy.

  49. 49.

    Roger Moore

    January 21, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    @Calouste:

    That’s something drastic could be full Putin-style election fraud, stuffing ballot boxes, altering vote totals, the works.

    That’s a possibility, but we need to keep preparing the election campaign as if it’s going to be a fair- or at least only normally unfair- election. Sure, we need to have a contingency plan if they steal it, but until they do we need to fight as hard as we can to win it if they don’t.

  50. 50.

    Jay C

    January 21, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Saw a clip online of Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introducing a bill to keep military salaries being paid despite the shutdown: apparently “Leader” McConnell shut that idea right down, too.

    It’s like the Vietnam War (and its domestic-political traumas) never ended for the GOP: the notion that “Democrats” in general are a gang of traitor hippie sellout peaceniks who “hate the troops” has (sadly) proven too productive a stereotype for them to ever let go of: reality (as usual with the GOP) notwithstanding…..

  51. 51.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 21, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    @Brachiator:

    mainstream press supporting that policy.

    Define mainstream press

  52. 52.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 21, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    @Calouste: @Roger Moore:
    Also, wouldn’t that be extremely difficult to pull off since elections are primarily handled at the county and state level?

  53. 53.

    Zinsky

    January 21, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    The filthy, lyingRepublicans in Congress and the Liar in Chief try to spin this shutdown as Democratically-created, when their diseased political party didn’t have the votes in the Senate to carry the majority, even setting aside every Democratic vote. The GOP leadership are absolutely pure human filth.

  54. 54.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 21, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    If Ds don’t stand with DACA and TPS recipients now they would be endorsing and enabling hostage taking R tactics. If Rs are successful we know that they won’t just stop at DACA recipients. Some principles are worth fighting for.

  55. 55.

    Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot

    January 21, 2018 at 2:28 pm

    @burnspbesq: Goddamn I hope that’s true — that Mueller’s investigation won’t have an “unsatisfying ending” like Lost did. Or, I don’t know, Fitzmas.

    Mueller can’t “save” us, no matter how damning the evidence. The Congress is the sole prosecutor and judge for alleged criminal matters by a sitting president (his underlings are a different matter, of course) so Mueller can’t directly touch Orangemandias himself. And the Congress will never, ever impeach the vile asshole. That’s the main lesson Republicans learned from Watergate — never desert a Republican president again. We see that playing out right now as Republicans (officials and rank and file alike) huddle together in mostly lockstep protective mode no matter what Trump says or does.

    But if Mueller’s investigation does produce truly damning information, and not a load of mushy nothingburger minor bullshit — my biggest fear — or worse, some form of exoneration (don’t think that can’t happen, these are mostly Republicans working this, including Mueller himself, and I don’t fucking trust ANY Republican) then it will, I think, help tremendously in the main thing that matters — Democratic voter turnout.

    We’ll see very soon, on both accounts.

  56. 56.

    chopper

    January 21, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    @TaMara (HFG):

    at this point I’m convinced this shutdown may last. there’s no way with all this pouting and spite that the trump admin is going to give anything on daca, just to avoid giving the dems the satisfaction. they’re going to dig their heels in over this.

  57. 57.

    John Revolta

    January 21, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    Sweet picture. Tired Dad looks like that guy who was Ray Romano’s brother.

  58. 58.

    Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot

    January 21, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @Calouste: I don’t think we’re at the point yet of truly corrupt government ballot-stuffing, particularly (as Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) put it) since elections are so decentralized at the county and state level across the country.

    Far, far more important than any potential ballot-stuffing (or very real voter suppression) is simply turnout in sufficient numbers by people who are typically little-engaged (or even completely unengaged) with politics. Betty’s “woke enough” sideline people.

    That will make all the difference for victory or defeat for Democratic candidates. We have a huge structural disadvantage, as most here know, due to House gerrymandering and the deeply undemocratic (as designed from the beginning) Senate. So our chance of flipping the House this year is good, but not nearly certain. And we will almost surely not take the Senate, with only 8 contested seats currently held by Republicans, but 25 by Democrats (and many of those in red states).

    2020 presents a much better chance for us (Senate and, of course, Presidency). That is, if we’re all still alive by then (I kid, but only slightly). But 2018 can give us a great start, if we’re able to take it.

  59. 59.

    Bill Arnold

    January 21, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Open thread material:
    This long-form NYMag article about Glen Greenwald was helpful for me in understanding his current mind set.
    Does This Man Know More Than Robert Mueller? Glenn Greenwald’s war on the Russia investigation
    Shorter: Glen is a debater, not an analyst. This works fine (albeit can be irritating) if you’re always right. He is not always right. Rooted in part in biases against US intelligence agencies that should be revisited because US dominance in this area is fading and in some cases the US has been surpassed.
    (I should probably look for comment from Glen in his own defense.)
    Worth a read, but here’s a random quote (probably one that would irritate him):

    Journalistically, the problem with this dynamic is there’s virtually no revelation in the Russia story that could get Greenwald to change his mind. Which means that while Scahill and other Intercept colleagues tend to evaluate each new revelation at face value, Greenwald focuses disproportionately on debunked or overblown Russia stories.

    Another example: he’s looking for proof of Russian hacking. Disregarding the fact that proof of provenance is extremely difficult, an analyst would outline the various possibilities e.g. (not exhaustive) (1) Russians did it (the parsimonious choice), perhaps contracted out for deniability (2) one or more US intelligence agencies did it, perhaps as a rogue operation [1] (3) some other state actor did it [1] (4) some non-state actor with a political agenda did it [1] (5) some mercenary non-state actor with a financial agenda did it [1], perhaps paid by another actor (6) some combination of the above[2], (7) leak from inside the DNC[1], then assign probabilities/confidence intervals to each and adjust over time.

    [1] pretending to be Russian
    [2] the DNC and others were atrociously easy targets, so there may have been multiple successful hack attempts.

  60. 60.

    John Revolta

    January 21, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    I don’t think we’re at the point yet of truly corrupt government ballot-stuffing, particularly (as Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) put it) since elections are so decentralized at the county and state level across the country.

    ???? ‘Cause local governments are so much cleaner and more accountable, right?

  61. 61.

    Suzanne

    January 21, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @JPL: I haz pictures! Spawn the Younger’s sign was VERY popular!

  62. 62.

    Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot

    January 21, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    @John Revolta: Operative word in my comment is “decentralized”. Of course ballot-stuffing at the local level can happen (and famously did, for instance, for years in Daley’s Chicago).

    But there are thousands of individual election jurisdictions across the country, with significant diversity in election administration between them. Our nationwide election system isn’t just decentralized, it’s highly decentralized. This widely dispersed responsibility for running our elections makes it very difficult to rig elections on a national level.

    There’s no more real “vote rigging” than there is “voter fraud”. Gerrymandering by the right is real, voter suppression by the right is real (though less significant than gerrymandering). Those are legally-constituted structural disadvantages aimed squarely at Democrats, so we need to significantly outperform Republican turnout to break even, let alone win.

    That’s a steep enough hill to climb, and requires GOTV in large numbers of the “sideline people” (as Betty called them). That’s where the focus needs to be, not on some mythical ballot-stuffing.

  63. 63.

    Aleta

    January 21, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Viola Davis speaking, full speech it says (mine cut off, though most is there)
    http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01/20/viola-davis-full-speech-womens-march-la.cnn

  64. 64.

    John Revolta

    January 21, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    @Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot: Yeah, I grew up in Daley’s Chicago. It kinda put a permanent spin on the way I look at this stuff……………!
    There doesn’t have to be a centralized conspiracy though, with meetings and such. Just a buncha local crooks tilting the scales independently,
    in MI & PA & WI say, can do the work. And all the crooks are working on one side.

  65. 65.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2018 at 4:22 pm

    @HinTN: Hopefully the jackboots won’t show up at my door. I told him he is a liar, a racist and a bigot. I told him that he apparently doesn’t understand that he is the president of the united states, not just the president of those who voted for him. My mom will be rolling over in her grave – she even worried when I signed any kind of petition. I now understand that better than I used to – McCarthyism was rampant during my childhood years.

  66. 66.

    Tata

    January 21, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    @SFAW:

    Why don’t we start a PAC here to do that? (Please, nobody mention the calendar!)

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