Audible gasps in the courtroom as Judge Aquilina reads a letter from #Nassar in which he says, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” and accusers are "seeking media attention & financial reward." pic.twitter.com/5mn7Ts1jGJ
— Carol Costello (@CarolHLN) January 24, 2018
This piece of shit was just sentenced to die in prison for molesting at least 156 girls, and probably many more. He got 40-175 years, on top of a 60 year child porn sentence.
You just can’t molest that many kids over that period of time without the assistance of enablers and the blindness of the administration. Here’s one enabler, MSU Trustee Joel Ferguson:
Meanwhile, Ferguson insists the scandal won’t tarnish Simon’s legacy as university president, that it’s “wrong” to even talk about the possibility of Simon retiring, and is confident that the attorney-general investigation into MSU will find its “senior people are not complicit in what this pervert did.”
“I mean, when you go to the basketball game, you walk into the new Breslin, and the person who hustled and got all those major donors to give money was Lou Anna Simon,” Ferguson said. “There’s just so many things that make up being president at a university that keeps everything moving and everything right with the deans, everything at a school where we have a waiting list of students who want to come.”
On the one hand, MSU harbored a child molester for almost 20 years. On the other, they have a great stadium. The scales of justice are clearly balanced.
Update: In the comments, LAO linked to this Charlie Pierce piece in SI, which is worth reading just for Aly Raisman’s comments.
LAO
Barbara
Read this article and see what you think: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/tech/2018/01/18/msu-president-told-nassar-complaint-2014/1042071001/
MSU failed institutionally, there is no doubt, as did US Gymnastics Federation, but it’s not clear that Simon herself can be faulted in any personal way. The question I had after reading the above article was whether she intentionally refused to learn incriminating details (like the alleged perpetrator’s name) when she became “aware” of a Title IX complaint. There are literally no heroes in this story, just a few people who did what anyone should have done as part of their job to protect potential victims.
T S
Burn down the athletics administration (figuratively) like Spartans (literally) burn down their own town.
rikyrah
They knew,
THEY KNEW.
And, enabled him.
SFAW
I’m a-guessin’ that what they’re seeking is him castrated, painfully, before getting his head on a pike. Of course, I could be wrong.
MattF
So, Nassar regards the people he molested as flirts, who he rejected. Flirts because they have female bodies, I guess. Ugh.
Jeffro
coughPennStateAllOverAgaincough
Brachiator
On a related note, have you all seen the Financial Times story about the British all-men club that had a charity fundraiser, in which the male guests ogled and groped the female hostesses hired to serve food and drinks?
Again, a key point is that there were men and women hired as enablers, to make sure that the women made themselves available to the male guests.
There is an aspect of culture which supports and encourages harassment.
I presume that there are some wealthy and powerful women in the UK, but interesting that even they were shut out of this charity event, and no one thought twice about it. And many, if not most, of the men present, presumed that they had the right to do anything they wanted to the women hired to work this event.
ETA. A link to the FT article, which should be available to anyone.
foucault swing voter mistermix
@Barbara: Somehow this human catastrophe happened on her watch. She needs to go, if only to demonstrate to other university presidents that they need to step up their guard on this.
PaulWartenberg
Still blaming the victims. In the rapist’s mind, he still has power over them.
I am at the point where I hope Michigan State loses not only their athletic department but the entire system loses accreditation and their degrees made worthless.
Salt the Earth.
Aleta
What Judge Aqualina said:
-BBC
PaulWartenberg
@Brachiator:
JESUS FCKING CHRIST
Every SOB tied to that event needs to be in jail YESTERDAY.
Lyrebird
@Barbara: I read the same article and don’t know.
I DO KNOW or at least I read on Wikipedia that Hall of Shamer Graham “Spanier remains free while he appeals his conviction to Superior Court” while Curley and somebody else serve a smidgen of time and community service for one MEASLY misdemeanor charge.
We have Spanier’s email in which he chose to place the reputation of the school over the solemn duty to call the bleepity bleeping cops, why is he walking free?
Ahem.
Sorry. Not yelling at you, Barbara!
laura
Re Ferguson (per LG&M), “it’s just a bunch of girls.”
My loathing of dismissive, institutional mysogeny knows no bounds.
TaMara (HFG)
This fucker actually said that?!? I hope his face meets pavement several times on the way to the prison.
ALurkSupreme
Deadspin has had extensive coverage of this case, if you’re interested in reading more.
Bobby Thomson
They better have insurance.
Lyrebird
@TaMara (HFG): Or, alternatively, yes everyone should follow @LAO‘s link because we should listen to Ms. Raisman’s voice again and again, not so much her abuser’s.
bolding added by me
Mnemosyne
If we don’t take a hard look at the institutions that enabled these crimes, they will keep happening again and again to a fresh crop of victims.
Barbara
@foucault swing voter mistermix: Yes, probably. I am not defending Simon, whose response appears to be, at best, tone deaf. But MSU students complained to MSU related personnel over a period of 15 years and I don’t know when Simon was hired. These complaints (by and large) affected MSU students, who were mostly over 18 (Title IX versus child abuse reporting), in a variety of different sports. Whereas, the gymnasts were almost all minors seeing Nassar at various locations around the country in his capacity as some kind of USGF appointed physician. Many of these girls were under the age of 15, and their complaints should have been reported under state law as possible child abuse reports. All I am saying is that Simon and MSU would not have been knowledgeable about abuse that took place in Texas, but MSU did receive numerous reports (at least 14, and probably many more than the ones from women who have been willing to come forward).
Aleta
The power that sports departments hold over many universities (even smaller ones) is unreal. In some places, a sports department (unlike other departments AFAIK) is allowed to keep its financial records secret from the university itself. (I don’t know if something similar is also true for research departments at big schools that bring in big grants from industry.
Fair Economist
@rikyrah: To me, the real problems are the ones who let this continue more than 20 years after the first credible allegations were filed. This will all recur if they aren’t punished too.
@Mnemosyne: Ah, ninja’d
efgoldman
@foucault swing voter mistermix
If nothing else, she and the entire board need to be sued, personally, by all of the victims until all the fat cats are homeless
LAO
@Aleta: Nassar is an odious, horrible human being and possibly the most “successful” sexual predator/pedophile in US history BUT, I still hate it when Judges behave this way on the bench.
Barbara
@Lyrebird: The Penn State case is arguably worse. Fewer people were harmed (most likely) but there is no question that PSU management employees knew what Sandusky had done. Not even a fig leaf for cover. They intentionally chose not to do anything. I suspect that USGF is in the same boat but has been covering itself through NDAs to keep it from coming out. USGF settled cases involving Nassar and did nothing to prevent him from continuing to harm these girls. Notwithstanding all of that, the level of protection Nassar received from so many people at MSU is nearly unbelievable. But then, most did not know that he had been the subject of other complaints and assumed that the complaints were “overwrought” or whatever.
trollhattan
May have buried the lede on what a vile tool this Ferguson is.
Fuck him, it’s EXACTLY Penn State and they need to pay a steep price for their complicity.
Lyrebird
@Barbara:
In such a terrible case, I think your measured response is really important. Yep I’m still cheerleading for due process. BUT to get un-tone-deaf as iiuc head of the whole NCAA I would think Pres. Simon would be leaping to the forefront of “how can we make sure this doesn’t happen again”… Penn State U Campus was all, “okay now it will be almost impossible to have youth on campus” but I’m not sure that goes to the heart of the corruption problem.
And since I am repeating myself –
EVERYONE should read what Ms. Raisman said. Note that her main targets are USAG and the Olympic Committee.
ETA: thanks for your other response, which I just got to read! I leave “worse” and “better” aside until we know more…
Barbara
@LAO: Me too. Although, really, he is already serving what is basically a life sentence, so nothing she said or handed down makes a difference in that regard.
schrodingers_cat
Why Focault’s pendulum? Are you trying to prove that the earth is a moving frame of reference?
Brachiator
@Barbara:
This is insane. No one asked, “why do we keep having to settle these cases?”
Barbara
@trollhattan: What I kept telling people all throughout the financial meltdown is that the real scandal is how much reprehensible conduct is perfectly legal. For instance, I can’t believe that Olympic committees were not considered to be responsible reporters for purposes of child abuse reporting laws, something Congress recently changed. Ferguson isn’t going to pay any price. The people who are going to pay a price, if anyone, are the individual, mostly female, coaches and trainers who received the reports from athletes under their supervision of Nassar’s revolting “treatment.” Everyone else is going to stand around looking coy and say exactly what Simon did, that she didn’t know the DETAILS of the complaint that finally made its way through the MSU system.
Mary G
This is one of those cases where it’s hard to admonish myself for hoping that the prison he goes to has bad security and he gets to know what the general population there thinks of child molesters.
efgoldman
@LAO: @Barbara:
A certain amount of decorum from the bench is both required and expected. But is a judge required to hang up her humanity in the closet when she puts on her robe?
The Moar You Know
I watched the sentencing. Riveting. Judge Aquilina is not to be trifled with. So nice. So professional. Fair to the very end. Reasonable. Everything you’d ever want in someone trying your case if you were innocent.
And not the person you’d want trying you if you were guilty. I have no doubt whatsoever that she would have killed Nassar with her bare hands if she’d been allowed to.
That being said, justice has not been done. USA Gymnastics and MSU knew this was going on, for decades, and did absolutely nothing. They both need to be sued into bankruptcy.
ETA: the SOB put on a show of contrition, which fooled no one. He’s a goddamn sociopath and clearly believed even as they hauled his ass off that he had the right to do everything he did. The judge knew it, too. I’m glad he drew her. Another judge –
hell, most judges – would have been fooled.
LAO
@Barbara: I agree 100% (which just depresses me).
scav
@Brachiator: I’ve been following along with that at the dreaded Guard. A lot more rats fleeing the ship there at least or ever so many tables where they saw nooothing nooothing nothing (despite the joyous initial on-stage claim of Welcome to the most un-PC event of the year.” followed by the parade of hostesses, all of whom signed a NDA.)
trollhattan
@Barbara:
One of the testifying victims (can’t recall the name) mentioned her mother and late father in her testimony. What she didn’t say was they did not believe her when she complained about her molestation and instead, punished her for lying about that nice man doctor Larry. When the truth came out her father committed suicide.
Depraved indifference can be criminal, whether it applies to the university I cannot guess.
Barbara
@efgoldman: To your question, no, but it’s very easy to focus on the grueling, nauseating details of cases to the exclusion of other things, like whether a person is actually guilty or what the law actually says. That’s just one reason why so many people of questionable guilt are sitting on death row. I guarantee you that many cases have details that challenge a judge’s impartiality, not just this one.
trollhattan
@The Moar You Know:
Over at LGM concerned people are concerned about her tone in sentencing him with “I’ve signed your death warrant.” My concern is somewhat less.
dmsilev
@Aleta:
Not really, for the most part. The reason is that research universities charge what amounts to a tax on grant money and hence have strong incentives to know exactly how much money is coming in and from whom.
Whether the administration chooses to do anything with that information is of course a different question.
Lee
I have not been following the story all that closely but after reading that I agree the Gymnastic program, USOC and MSU athletic programs need to be destroyed.
I thought the same thing about Penn State.
Brachiator
@scav:
They were forced to sign it, but not allowed to read it.
The impact of the FT article is hitting the UK like a storm.
LAO
@efgoldman: Of course Judges are human — she certainly made her point by extending the sentencing hearing to allow all of the victims that wished to make statements, make statements. The Judge was also correct to call Nassar out for his weaselly letter complaining about sentencing. But I don’t believe a Judge should declare “I am signing your death warrant” at a sentencing that was a best, irrelevant. (Remember Nassar has a 60 year sentence in the Feds of which he is required to 85% or 51 years). And, the sentence she imposed, speaks louder than any comments or editorial she provided.
The Moar You Know
@trollhattan: I think that’s problematic, but I’ll defend it: these surviving women have been getting an insane amount of abuse, online of course, charging that they made it up, they’re in it for the money, the usual bullshit from the usual suspects. And there’s a lot of Nassars out there. The judge knew this sentencing was drawing heavy media attention and was going to be broadcast, and decided to make a point – namely, that this is a fucked-up crime that ruins people’s lives, and if you’re the kind of dirtbag who indulges your pleasure at the expense of innocents, your life is over if you get caught. Yeah, it was dramatic and yes, that was unprofessional, but I think the point needed to be made and she made it well without turning it into a circus.
I understand and agree with the people who took issue with it, but there are some times when a point must be made. I suspect very strongly that the judge, in the normal course of business, does not handle her courtroom in that fashion.
germy
@LAO:
I think maybe it was his six-page letter that was the tipping point. He called the victims publicity seekers and suggested the judge was enjoying her spotlight. He complained it wasn’t fair for him to have to listen to the victims’ statements.
If he’d kept his mouth shut and expressed the slightest bit of remorse, she would have limited her remarks while (hopefully) giving him the exact same sentence.
scav
@Brachiator: It’s been impressive watching the speed. I’m mostly at the beeb and the guard (plus the original FT) are there any other major sources with different info?
geg6
@Barbara:
She’s the president of the University. If she’s not responsible, who is? I lived through the Penn State Sandusky debacle. The president knows everything and, if he/she does not, he/she has no business in the position. In addition, the way the University has treated the athletes who came forward has been a disgrace. And there’s no way to say she’s not responsible for that. She’s a real piece of shit, pretty much on the same level as Graham Spanier. Disgusting.
geg6
@Jeffro:
Nope. Not at all. No one at Michigan State besides Nassar is paying any sort of price. That was certainly not true at Penn State.
Barbara
I think the judge’s comments veered a little further onto the side of personal retribution than was necessary. At least since the late 80s, there has been a lot of emphasis on not making particular defendants “examples,” such that punishment needs to be for that individual’s actions, not as a way to deter others. Given the gravity of the charges, the sentence was not disproportionate, so she is probably safe on any appeal of the sentence, but it is an appealable issue.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Good lord, reading the comments in the twitter link
“I was ten when it happened to me, now I am 62”
So WTF, so how long has this being going? We all obsesses over some dork looking at pictures, mean while at the University…
Barbara
@geg6: Let me say this: Spanier essentially tried to scapegoat the lone individual who, however imperfectly, did manage to come forward and bring Sandusky’s actions to police attention (his mistake was going to the University police). He also lied to a grand jury and defamed others.
I don’t know enough about Simon, but I would simply say, there is a difference between committing a crime, and not being the kind of person who has sufficient authority to lead an institution when something this horrible happens, even if she did not know. In this case, her response was to emphasize her own lack of knowledge, which strongly suggests to me that she is not the kind of person who will be able to lead MSU out of this horrible situation. But that’s not because I am assigning vicarious knowledge to her of events that might have happened before she even arrived.
Amaranthine RBG
Ferguson’s comments are not surprising in the least. Any university with a significant sports program is inevitably morally compromises by it. Just look at the news for, oh, I don’t know, the past 20 years, and again and again and again you will see college and university administrations looking the other way from rapes and assaults committed by “student” athletes and those affiliated with the various athletic programs. It’s worse, of course, at schools that compete an elite level, but the cancer exists everywhere. It’s not a fucking aberration. It is baked into the system.
Football culture is pretty much synonymous with rape culture.
Lifelong brain damage is just one reason to look at college football with disgust and revulsion.
LAO
@germy: Who knows. I had to deal with the legendary Leslie Crocker Synder — the most inappropriate Judge I have ever been before — I just really don’t like it when Judge add snide commentary at sentencing hearing, don’t think its appropriate and it does not reflect well on the judiciary.
geg6
@Barbara:
She must go. Regardless of what she did or didn’t know (and having worked most of my career in mid-level administration at post-secondary institutions, I have no doubt she knew and didn’t give a damn because it wasn’t basketball or football), she’s a terrible university president. Either so checked out and stupid that she has no idea what is happening around her or a corrupt piece of shit, just like Spanier. MSU alumni should be calling for her head and that of the entire board.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
And the victims were required to sign non-disclosure agreements. Is it actually legal to use NDAs to cover up criminal behavior? US Gymnastics and the families certainly seem to think it was.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
I just said in the thread below that the organizers were apparently too cheap to hire actual sex workers and expected the waitresses to do double duty for no additional pay. Assholes.
Brachiator
@scav:
The Independent, and others, are naming names.
But the main source of this is the FT article.
Great name of the FT reporter who did the story: Madison Marriage
RSA
@trollhattan:
This is what matters to the trustees and administration. MSU would be responding very differently, I think, if their major corporate donors and famous alumni were to speak out publicly about the situation. I don’t know if that’s within the realm of possibility to get them to care, though.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
I’m not sure that would be legal, even in the UK.
Also, sex workers, not always good waitresses.
Barbara
@Brachiator: The Guardian article suggests that although “everyone was doing it” no one noticed a thing or left early or was too busy making presentations or whatever. I wonder how many were too blotto to remember having done it themselves.
scav
Quick good news mental break snippet: Donald Trump’s ‘hatred of sharks’ benefits conservation charities
Another Blue Wave?
Barbara
@RSA: I am guessing they are in the earliest stages of dealing with the reaction. Ferguson should really shut up.
trollhattan
@geg6:
It took years for the UC system to put Linda “You’ll take your pepperspray and you will love it” Katehi on “investigatory administrative leave,” even after discovering she was dumping serious bucks into social media interference, had professional conflicts of interest, etc. She is removed as UC Davis chancellor but is reinstated as a professor at her chancellor salary. She had previous problems when at U of Illinois. Lovely.
Patricia Kayden
A true sociopath. Not a drop of remorse. Glad his crimes eventually caught up with him and he’ll be spending the remainder of his useless life in jail.
germy
In other news:
trollhattan
@Patricia Kayden:
Your first sentence could be describing the president to a T. Someday perhaps, sentence the second will likewise apply.
Know hope.
Barbara
Just read this to understand how grotesque this was:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/usa-gymnastics-allowed-larry-nassar-to-prey-upon-innocent-victims-congress-must-investigate/2018/01/24/0ff7a7c4-0129-11e8-8acf-ad2991367d9d_story.html?hpid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-sports%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.ba0e66362361
One of the ironclad rules of treating women and girls as a physician is having a nurse in the room. Nassar never did. He never used gloves. He saw these gymnasts (not the MSU students) in their hotel or training camp rooms with no other adult present. Who the fuck thought any of this was normal? It’s almost like USAG wanted to torture and humiliate these girls as a price for granting them status. HE DIDN’T EVEN USE GLOVES WHEN HE STUCK HIS FINGERS UP THEIR VAGINAS AND BECAME AROUSED WHEN DOING IT.
randy khan
@Barbara:
Oh, there are heroes – the young women we’ve been hearing from over the last week. Their courage in confronting Nassar was more impressive to me than any Olympic gold medal performance.
Gravenstone
@LAO: Yeah, while I certainly sympathize with the victims and Nasser deserves to rot for the remainder of his natural born life (this coming on top of his existing sentence for child p0rn), the judge’s statement seems like it’s ripe to be twisted as grounds for reversal of the sentencing on appeal due to bias (at minimum). I sincerely hope I am wrong and that is not what unfolds.
Mnemosyne
@RSA:
Also, if I can be That Feminazi for a minute, I’m sure donors at Penn State were way more horrified that boys were being abused by a man than MSU donors are by girls being abused, even though there seems to be at least 10 times more victims here. Boys and men being sexually abused is unnatural and horrifying (which is why male victims of abuse feel huge pressure to pretend nothing happened). Girls and women being sexually abused is the natural order of things.
Barbara
@randy khan: I meant at MSU, specifically. Of course, it takes tremendous courage for these women and girls to come forward and demand that they bear no shame or blame for things that were done to them by others without their consent.
@Mnemosyne: There is no doubt in my mind that there are certain parties who are relieved that he was an “ordinary” pervert.
Mnemosyne
@Gravenstone:
Sorry, but IM (non-lawyer) O any judge who does that is an asshole who makes him/herself morally complicit in Nasser’s crimes by deciding to ignore days of victim testimony and making them go through it all over again.
Gin & Tonic
@Barbara: It’s such a shame there are no female physicians in the US that USA Gymnastics could have hired to work with these girls.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, that’s why judges are supposed to be judicious in how they do these things — so they don’t get reversed on appeal. If there is a next time, the sentence will not be rendered after days of victim statements.
Mnemosyne
Also, I will freely admit that I’ve been feeling very jaundiced about the court system and lawyers lately because a friend of mine in Chicago is about to have an eighth hearing date about the guy who exposed himself to her on the El. Not a trial date — an eighth preliminary hearing for a serial offender who didn’t show up to the last hearing because he was in jail after being arrested for the same offense.
Even the prosecution seems to expect my friend to drop the charges because, hey, this is what women should expect to have to deal with when they take public transit, so why is she so upset that a total stranger whipped out his dick and started masturbating in front of her?
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mnemosyne: See also: coverage of the Catholic Church abuse story, in which nearly all public attention went to altar boys despite at least 1/3 of victims being girls. Female abuse victims are frequently just completely invisible.
@schrodingers_cat: Mockery of a stupid David Brooks column, IIRC.
LAO
@Mnemosyne: I actually disagree. I don’t remember Penn State donors being all that outraged, much like MSU donors seem fine with the University. To me, it seems clear — MSU harbored a sexual predator/pedophile for 20 years and if I were an alum or contemplating sending my children there, I’d ask myself: (1) did the University know?; (2) if not, should they have known? and (3) if not, why didn’t they know?. Bottom line, I wouldn’t send my children or my money.
Lee
Here is another thing that I just thought of that pisses me off about this.
This happened because the entire hierarchy allowed it to happen and it was simply because of the young age of these young ladies that the claims were dismissed and covered up.
Imagine the outcome if it happened to one of the players on the US Soccer Women’s National Team.
Adria McDowell
My daughter has done gymnastics since age 3 (she’s almost 6 now) and when we moved from Florida to Ohio, one of the coaches there made it clear that we needed to find a club that was affiliated with USAG, because they do background checks on coaches.
Fat lot of good it did these women, if they aren’t doing background checks of everyone that comes into contact with gymnasts. Fuck USAG and MSU.
Stan
Aly Raisman – please run for office.
NorthLeft12
@Barbara: I wonder what ever happened to the “buck stops here” philosophy of management? Ms. Simon did not seem to be bothered enough about the 2014 Title IX review where it was first identified that he was molesting young women. That review was a farce and no one at MSU seemed to care that a molester was in their employ and had access to students.
After the Penn State fiasco you would think that large universities, especially BIG Ten universities would have learned something. Apparently not, but again since it was not about football or basketball, who cares? Amirite?
Yutsano
@Stan: Just looked it up. She’s a Masshole. Perfect.
Gin & Tonic
@Adria McDowell: My daughter was a club-level competitive gymnast for about 8 years. USAG has an effective monopoly, as does almost every other sport’s national governing body. Meaning you could certainly learn and practice gymnastics anywhere, but you can’t compete unless it’s at a USAG-sanctioned event, and that requires belonging to a USAG-sanctioned club.
That said, her experiences were uniformly positive. She stopped when she went to college and no longer had time to train.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
I will be honest — I don’t see why the judge saying something like this after hearing the MOUNTAINS of evidence against this guy is supposedly a sign of some kind of bias against him. I really don’t.
I thought the whole point of having a judge is to have someone decide guilt or innocence, not to have some kind of weird “balance” where the judge is not allowed to say that the person she just pronounced guilty of hundreds of horrible crimes is, in fact, guilty of hundreds of horrible crimes.
efgoldman
@Barbara:
There’s always the honorable resignation, giving the reasons, whys and wherefores.
No Drought No More
Another soulless criminal made a similar remark years ago. When the rapist/murderer of 12 year old Polly Klass of Peataluma, Ca. was permitted to address the court after sentencing, he claimed Polly’s father had collaborated with him in her abduction.
I daresay Donald Trump is such a beast, too. There are ample proofs I can cite that any banishes doubt on that score in my mind, in fact.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Probably around 20 years ago a guy was sentenced by a judge after being tried for drag racing with another driver on the way to work, which caused a four car accident and the death of four people, including the other driver and a mother of four on her way to work. The judge was outraged and went on and on about making him an example so that no one else would try to do this (which, of course, did not happen) and then sentenced him to 11 years in prison. The sentence was reversed on appeal because she took inappropriate matters into consideration during the sentencing, not that 11 years was inherently too harsh. A mountain of evidence on guilt doesn’t excuse a sentence based on something other than guilt. I am not saying this judge did that, but that’s what can happen when a judge veers off topic during a sentencing.
ETA: Just in case it isn’t clear, the underlying issue is equity in sentencing. Why do you think Black defendants receive much higher sentences for killing white victims than any other combination of perpetrators and victims? A lot of those sentences are also based on “mountains” of evidence. It doesn’t make them fair.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Lee: Several weeks ago I wrote a fairly lengthy comment explicating why I think hierarchies make it much easier to commit and cover up sexual abuses. Maybe I’ll go back and find it later. I didn’t really want one, and especially not one as horrifying as this, but this story is another case study suggesting strong support for my hypothesis.
Lyrebird
@Stan: I second!
@Yutsano: And from several sources I know that she is very gracious to the not-gonna-be-Olympians in her gym.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
So this oh. so, British sexual harassment event, who was the actual organization hosting the “affair” being discussed? I’ve not really figured that out so far… The Foreign Office aka State Department? Really? Maybe I read it and it just wouldn’t sink in?
Aleta
@LAO: Yeah I didn’t think of that. I have this impression of judges who lecture people from the bench at sentencing and thought of it like that.
geg6
@LAO:
Well, you aren’t here, so you can’t be expected to have noticed. I can tell you pretty definitively that Penn State donors backed out of several scholarships that were supposed to benefit the kids at my campus, even though my campus is a three hour drive from where it all happened and had absolutely no connection to the whole thing. Hell, we don’t even have a football team.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
I don’t really see it being off-topic for a judge to tell a guy with dozens of victims who shows no remorse that he’s going to die in prison but, as I’ve said, IANAL.
And I do think this is an example of liberals bending too far backwards to be “fair” — is there really absolutely no room whatsoever for a judge to explain in the courtroom why she is handing down a sentence that is anything other than the mandatory minimum? I didn’t think the judge’s words were over the top based on the multiple offenses and the guilty man’s claim that it was harming him to hear the victim statements but, again, this is why I’m not a lawyer.
stinger
@Mnemosyne: I had that thought, too.
Brachiator
@J R in WV:
It’s weird. It’s supposedly a charitable organization that everyone knows about, but no one, not even UK news sites, seems able to adequately identify:
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
Oh, Jesus Christ. She said “I’m signing your death warrant.” The concern being expressed by those who ARE lawyers is that she’s making it sound like she, personally, hates him and wants to kill him. It’s fine if she feels that way, but it’s just not something you should say when you’re a fucking judge — unless you want to hand his lawyers a ground for appeal.
And it has fuck all to do with how horrible his crimes are or the fact that he does deserve whatever sentence he got.
It also has fuck all to do with being “fair.”
trollhattan
@Stan:
Or Rachael Denhollander. She must be one fierce, kick-ass lawyer.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
Great, I’ll tell my friend as she heads off for the 8th preliminary hearing for the guy she has pictures of showing her his dick as he jerks off in public that her time and inconvenience is completely irrelevant to his right to drag the process out for as long as possible.
This is why people hate lawyers.
trollhattan
@eemom:
That door ain’t being kicked open. Any review of the sentence would seem to require reviewing multiple days going through the victim statements, shrill judge notwithstanding. Besides, made rather moot by his 60-year child porn sentence.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
OK, well, at least it isn’t my reading comprehension dying out yet. Sure seems odd that these rich fucks can commit sexual assault every year without fear of repercussions. Like gymnastic coaches, their doctors, etc, etc. Or priests… and youth ministers!
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: She didn’t say “you are going to die in prison.” She said, “I am signing your death warrant.” Which could mean that she chose the sentence to make sure he dies in prison, which is not actually a goal of sentencing, but which, you know, he is pretty much already guaranteed to do because of his prior sentence for child porn charges. It was unnecessary and potentially complicating, but let’s hope he doesn’t appeal.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: It is his right. Just like it’s the right of numerous innocent people on death row whose lawyers have been accused time and again of torturing the families of the victims by making them relive the details of their loss. We don’t get to say, “well, you’re REALLY guilty, so no due process for you.”
Gin & Tonic
Not taking any position on Judge Aquilina’s remarks, but here old friend of the blog ABL (an attorney herself, IIRC) brings her indignation at the judge’s critics.
Barbara
@trollhattan: I know this is getting tedious for you, but specifically, “Nassar, 54, agreed to a minimum 40-year sentence when he pleaded guilty last year to seven counts of first-degree criminal sexual misconduct in Ingham County. He still faces sentencing in Eaton County for three more counts, and he’s already been sentenced to 60 years in federal prison for possession of child pornography.” And this: “The judge could have given Nassar a stiffer sentence than the one he agreed to, but that would have given him the option of withdrawing his plea and asking for a trial.”
He pleaded guilty to a specific number of counts and the judge allowed more than one hundred women to give statements even though the charges did not pertain to their own abuse. I am okay that she did that, it was important, but I am specifically criticizing the zeal with which people here would be willing to throw out protections for criminal defendants when they don’t like the perpetrator or are especially sympathetic to the victims.
Just ETA: There is no parole in the federal system. He would be more than 100 years old before he served his federal sentence.
Boatboy_srq
@Brachiator: Makes you wonder what Bess Hardwick would have thought.
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: Imani referred to a quote in a NYT story yesterday from a law prof:
Barbara
@Aleta: Gillers is actually wrong, but whatever, maybe he meant “speak their mind about matters related to the defendant’s conduct.” The fact that she stuck to the minimum sentence, which is what was negotiated under the plea agreement, means that there will be no appeal. I assume that she knew that even before she began the hearing, so yes, nothing she said, however potentially biased, is up for debate on appeal because she adhered to the plea bargain.
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Or what I’m talking about. Can’t you just for once drag your head out of your ass and LISTEN to what someone is saying, instead of translating it into Mnemspeak?
Sure, people have lots of good reasons to hate lawyers; but this REALLY is not one of them.
And it’s rich that you keep saying IANAL, while repeatedly telling us all how it’s SUPPOSED to work.
eemom
@Barbara:
Exactly. But this twisting of words is typical of this particular commenter’s style of argument. Maybe she SHOULD have been a lawyer.
KithKanan
@eemom: I guess I may get to see how some of this works in person – I just got a summons for federal jury duty.
Should I expect the experience to restore any of my faith in our institutions? Right now I have basically fuck-all.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
Rights for the accused, no rights for the victims. The venue is probably going to be changed to one she can’t get to via public transit, which is her only means of transportation because she walks with a cane. We’re going to pay her taxi fare but, really, there need to be EIGHT PRELIMARY HEARINGS over the course of 6 months before they even set a trial date for a public exposure case? Really?
So, yes, I am hating our entire court system’s treatment of sexual assault victims right now. This guy is still riding the train exposing himself to unsuspecting women* months later because no prosecutor in Chicago seems interested in doing their fucking job for a mere sexual assault case.
* Yes, he’s been arrested multiple additional times for the same offense since she had him arrested and there’s still no actual trial date. And people wonder why women don’t pursue sexual assault cases.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
It’s true, all I know is that my friend managed to actually take pictures of the guy as he exposed himself to her (I’ve seen them) and she has to appear for an EIGHTH time for a preliminary hearing or else the case against him will get dropped because the witness didn’t show.
But, hey, it’s no big deal if a repeat offender keeps exposing himself to women on the subway. The prosecutors sure don’t seem to think it is, because they’ve been hinting that she should drop the case and stop wasting everyone’s time over such a small thing as a guy whipping it out and masturbating in front of you on the train. No big deal, just look away, right?
Mnemosyne
Oh, and my favorite part: at one of the hearings, the defendant didn’t show because someone forgot to transfer him from the jail where he was sitting after being arrested for yet another exposure incident.
But if my friend fails to show up for a single preliminary hearing, the case will be dropped because the witness is not there. This is what the prosecutor has told her. Because the defendant has rights, and she has none.
Brachiator
@Boatboy_srq:
I’d like to think that she would have taken names and kicked some ass.
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
That has nothing to do with the topic under discussion.
Unless, of course, you’re one of those Real Murikans who says things like “Justice shmustice. All’s I know is them criminals get off scot free every time while the good guys get screwed. ‘Miranda rights’?? Gimme a fuckin BREAK. He’s a criminal — why should he have RIGHTS? Fuckin bleeding heart liberals….that’s what’s messing up this country. MAGA!”
That’s exactly what you sound like.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
Yes, why on earth would I associate a just completed sexual assault case with an ongoing sexual assault case that a friend of mine is dealing with? That’s just crazy talk.
eemom
The topic under discussion that prompted this exchange, as you very well know, was the judge’s statement “I’m signing your death warrant.” Not the whole issue of sexual assault.
You REALLY should have been a lawyer. You are as disingenuous as they come.
(edited for enhanced precision in obvious dot connection, as required for the subject audience)
Amaranthine RBG
She’s a fucking idiotic troll that should have been banned a long time ago. Every thread she posts in is dumber for it.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne:
1. I understand that most people have only infrequent contact with the criminal justice system and will extrapolate based on those few contacts to form a view that might be rather inaccurate. What is happening to your friend is the result of living in a city with an increasing rate of violence and prosecutors who are forced to prioritize cases according to how severe the victim’s injuries are. I am sorry for your friend and I hope she perseveres so that the prosecutors realize they will waste less time by actually doing their job. What they are trying to do now, I suspect, is get the guy to enter into a plea that doesn’t require a trial.
2. A victim is a victim but an accused is only a perpetrator when guilt has been established. Victims do deserve certain kinds of protection, for instance, protection from intimidation and threats by the accused or his friends or family. The situation is actually much better now than it used to be. Once again, I hope your friend gets justice but this single situation, however frustrating, has not much of anything to do with the sentencing of a person who has already pleaded guilty.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
They are. The problem is that the guy knows that and refuses to play along. So now she has to go to the EIGHTH preliminary hearing or else the case will get dropped. Any hearing she doesn’t show up to means the case will be dropped.
As I said above, I’m not saying that the guy shouldn’t have a trial. I’m saying there should be a way for the judge to be able to schedule a trial date when it turns out that the reason the guy didn’t show up is that he’s in jail for the exact same crime. Instead, they’ve had three more preliminary hearings with no end in sight.