In keeping with my idea that Democrats don’t talk up their young rising leaders enough, I’d like to run occasional pieces about Democrats who might run for president in 2020. The one I’m most familiar with Gillibrand, so I’ll start with her. I realize she’s controversial but I like her. Here’s a good profile from 538:
So what to make of this impressive litany of flip-flops, her ease in changing her mind? It would appear that Gillibrand is a Democrat above all else. As the party has shifted left, so has she.
In other words, she is good at politics, if by politics we mean sensing the direction of the populace, capturing their sentiments in rhetoric, turning that rhetoric into votes, fundraising off those votes, gaining power and popularity, running for re-election, winning, and doing it all over again.
[….]In the last week of a hard-fought 2006 election to Congress, a police report about a domestic violence incident involving Gillibrand’s Republican opponent surfaced. Gillibrand, New York Magazine later noted, “has never denied that her campaign was the source of the leak despite being asked about it several times. She defeated Sweeney by six points.”
I don’t have time to do a lot of posts so I’m fundraising in all of them. Let’s bust through our goal for Conor Lamb in PA-18.
Baud
I absolutely love these posts, Doug.
Doug!
@Baud:
Thanks
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I know, but watch it turn into a relitigation of the career of Stuart Smalley.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: Right, I might have started with someone else. But Doug’s posts have been so positive and proactive lately, it really improves my mood.
Waratah
Can she get voters fired up.
Baud
I posted this in the last thread, but it works better here.
https://medium.com/@TheDemocrats/dnc-announces-state-party-innovation-fund-recipients-75aeb61e240e
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Needs more Russians. Perhaps if @Doug!: started using the titles to Russian pop songs it might help.//
clay
@Baud: That awesome. Tom Perez has really impressed me with his organizing.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Ostorozhno, dveri zakryvaiutsia
zhena gogolia
@Waratah:
I’ll crawl over broken glass to vote for her.
Adam L Silverman
@Waratah: She can campaign while wearing a flame thrower.
Mary G
I like her a lot, too, but jumping all over “Al Franken MUST RESIGN NOW” was politically dumb, so I worry about that.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: Kris Kobach will make that happen.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: Now do “mind the gap”, please?
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: He said pop songs, not subway announcements.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
He was good enough, he was smart enough, and, doggone it, people liked him.
Doug!
@Adam L Silverman:
These guys did a song partly in French (“Hold On Tight To Your Dreams”). Does that count?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: How ’bout some Russian disco?
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
I should have linked to the song — here it is.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
You’re probably too young to remember Malinin.
eemom
In the name of the holy fuck. You have GOT to be kidding me.
Yeah. Leading the tiki-torch-bearing vigilante mob that ran one of the most effective DEMOCRATIC senators we had out of Congress was being a DEMOCRAT ABOVE ALL ELSE. Especially when he just happened to be a potential obstacle to her 2020 coronation.
Help me, Jesus.
Groucho48
An important subject. Breaking in to mention that, according to Politico. Dems are saying they are willin to vote for a long term budget that doesnt include a dreamer extension. That’s just wrong
zhena gogolia
told ya
eemom
Also, the political heroism and/or brilliant strategizing that this supposedly reflects eludes me.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: More like too old. Or just not interested in Russian pop.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Groucho48: on the same day trump said this?
ETA: Also, who’s “Democrats”? Manchin and Heitkamp? Schumer and Durbin?
Eural Joiner
If true then we’re done as a country. The GOP holds the mid terms, Trump and company run rampant for another term. Someone turn out the lights on your way out ?
Zinsky
Electric Light Orchestra – Sweet Talkin’ Woman. I love figuring out Doug’s song references that he uses as the lede for his posts.
Kristen Gillibrand is a great candidate. So is Adam Jennings, a candidate for Minnesota’s 3rd Congressional District. Very liberal, a veteran but wants to cut defense spending, knows the facts on tax and economic issues – Jennings is hard-hitting and honest and is well-positioned to unseat the worthless Erik Paulsen. Paulsen is about as popular as genital warts and hasn’t held a town hall meeting in six years. Flush this turd away!
Baud
@Groucho48:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Barbara Boxer was on Chris Hayes saying Trump would suffer in the polls if he started deporting the dreamers. My guess is that this is negotiation strategy.
Emperor of Ice Cream
I’ll crawl over broken glass to vote for whoever the Dems nominate. I’ll go so fast as to set a new world record…Grin…I’m interested in learning/seeing more of her, despite her role in Franken’s political demise, which I didn’t like (because I didn’t like anything about the Franken affair, including what Al did). And I acknowledge/appreciate that she did have a very substantial record on the issue of sexual harassment prior to that; it was appropriate for her to take a leadership role. All reasons to be open to her (plus she seems genuinely strong/tough/smart, and we are going to need that!).
Adam L Silverman
@Doug!: Since you’re clearly sleep deprived and probably covered in baby drool I’ll allow it. This time. As a hardship award. But we’re watching you!!!
Aimai
@Mary G: stop.
Adam L Silverman
He’s slipped his tether again!
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a technique.
msdc
@Baud: I await its rebranding as the State Party Innovation Fund for Youth, or SPIFFY.
Corner Stone
@Emperor of Ice Cream: If you’re the Emperor of Ice Cream, how do you have a throne to sit on? Doesn’t it turn into soft serve pretty quickly?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mary G: Find me a politician who never once put a foot wrong.
Emperor of Ice Cream
@Zinsky: See you got there first with the ELO reference!
Jager
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Any news if that male singer has been tossed in off a building by Putin thugs?
Corner Stone
@Groucho48:
WWWWHHHHUUUUTTTT??!
Baud
@msdc: Once we retake Congress, you should apply to be the official Democratic acronymetor of legislation.
B.B.A.
Honestly I thought something else she said during the autumn of #MeToo would make her more controversial in this crowd than the topic I’ve sworn not to say anything about.
Emperor of Ice Cream
@Corner Stone: My favorite Wallace Steven poem. Actually only one I really know, but one I love.
Baud
@B.B.A.: If you’re talking about the Clinton thing, then that was less consequential than the thing your swore not to talk about.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Hard chocolate shell.
Corner Stone
@Aimai: It was a poor decision that bought the D’s absolutely nothing and turfed a potential 2020 opponent.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: Thanks!
eemom
@Aimai:
wtf is that supposed to mean?
Corner Stone
@Emperor of Ice Cream: Well, I guess everyone’s gotta have their own thing. So a poem about soft serve ice cream is as good as anything else.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: I think that makes it worse.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
That’s what I said. And it was more than a mere misstep, because it says a lot about her.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: She didn’t jump on the bandwagon, she was driving it. Still pissed and disappointed in her.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: With sprinkles.
Corner Stone
@Baud: Barbara Boxer was either selling something during that interview or is completely unhinged.
She sounded out of touch with reality.
Groucho48
@Corner Stone:
Exactly my response I *hope* it’s 11th dimensional chess but, these are Dem Senators we’re talking about.
Peale
@Adam L Silverman: maybe if we started wearing MAGA hats and went to his rallies and told reporters that we were democrats until he single handedly saved the dreamers, we might be able to trick him into thinking that would be popular with his base. It can’t be too hard for a fat middle aged man like myself to find a reporter from New York looking for trump supporter to interview.
Jager
@zhena gogolia:
I think that guy is cutting up chickens somewhere in New Jersey today and doing Thursday night karaoke if he can get a night off. I’d love to hear his version of “My Way”
Groucho48
@Corner Stone:
Exactly my response I *hope* it’s 11th dimensional chess but, these are Dem Senators we’re talking about.
href=”https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/democrats-drop-dreamer-demand-with-budget-deal-in-reach-366992″>
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
And now for something good, by my friend.
gene108
@Mary G:
It took the “what about Franken?” question off the table for Democrats and the media, who were going after Roy Moore’s past allegations.
Before you say “yeah, but there’s a difference”, the media does not do subtle.
The “what about Franken” question would’ve been asked by every TV talking head, whenever a Democrat tried to impugn Moore’s character based on past allegations.
In other words, in my opinion, if Franken had not resigned, Moore would have won.
Was the first allegation against Franken probably a ratfucking operation? Yes, I think it was.
But this whole awakening to “sexual harassment bad, sexual harassment’s everywhere” is not at a point where we can deal with subtleties.
Look how the issue of racism gets muddied, when we get subtle. There is so much “I didn’t say the N-word, therefore I am not racist, I am just pointing out a higher percentage of blacks use welfare than other ethnic groups. This is a fact from government data.”
“He put his hands a bit too low around her waist, when posing for a photo. It isn’t harassment. He didn’t squeeze her buttocks”, is pretty much the same thread of logic racists try to use to dog whistle other racists. That can be an excuse for someone we do not like, the next time around.
I think Sen. Gillibrand is right in saying a clear line on what is not acceptable must be drawn.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Boxer came across as borderline loopy in the early going. She kept digressing into how lovable and beautiful the Dreamers were and sort of intimating that that alone would have some effect on Trump. Weird.
zhena gogolia
@Jager:
Yep. But try the link at #59.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: That was much better than the first one.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Еще бы.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus:
Also the name of my Inuit-Blues fusion cover band.
Emperor of Ice Cream
@Corner Stone: Ha! That’s not what the poem is about, but thought it would be a cool name for anonymous commenting.
Mary G
I’m about half way through Ari Berman’s latest piece, How the GOP Rigs Elections, in Rolling Stone today, and I highly recommend it.
I have to keep stopping because it makes me scared and nauseous, then full of rage. He talks about how Wisconsin was sort of a pilot program for all the dark money, voter suppression, gerrymandering down to two houses away, secret law making, and other things they are trying to roll out all over the country now. There’s nothing much in it that I didn’t know, but to see it laid out all in one piece is truly frightening. This is where I had to stop and take some deep breaths:
It’s so blatantly unfair and unAmerican.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Short sets?
Baud
@Groucho48: Thanks for the link. I don’t see how they get House Dems on board if immigration isn’t dealt with. But if there’s a shutdown, it would be better if it were the House who does it, since there’s no filibuster issue there.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Jimmies.
Corner Stone
@Emperor of Ice Cream: Sherbet? Gelato? I personally love rainbow sherbet so I get what the appeal is for you.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Hell no. We get hopped up on blubber packs before going on stage. Does make it a little more difficult to play the Sax but we manage.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: If I had to guess, it’s probably something less objectionable like “We’re dropping it as a budget deal demand because McConnell is giving us a straight vote on it under the terms of the last extension.”
Meaning, if McConnell breaks his word then it goes back in their list of demands.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t suppose, in this impromptu little press appearance by trump, anyone asked why Melania wasn’t going to Davos? Or if he’s ever appeared on the cover of Forbes magainze?
Yarrow
Looking forward to these posts, Doug. Thanks.
Calouste
@Corner Stone: Franken will be 69 in 2020.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know why Miller and the other racists in the administration are so worried. He’ll change his mind again the next time he talks to someone who opposes DACA. He has the object permanence of a goldfish.
gene108
@Mary G:
Disenfranchising blacks is very American and was the openly acceptable norm until 1965.
Hell, gerrymandering to get your guy elected goes back to the early 1800’s, in the Congressional election of Elbridge Gerry.
Violence was also employed in the 19th century to keep parties in power.
America’s problem is it thought that being the first or only country to not have a monarch and elect all the leaders was good enough. The details of having free and fair elections is an after thought, and left to localities to decide, even if what they decide is not free and fair. It was good enough.
Groucho48
@Baud:
Yeah. There are some trenches that the right has to get by. I hope they are enough to do the job. But, WHY did we let them land on the beach, unopposed?
Jager
@zhena gogolia:
My BIL does business in Russia, he says the music really sucks, he was at a nightclub with some clients and said, “10-12 vodkas couldn’t ease the pain of listening to that shit”
Corner Stone
@Calouste: Biden will be roughly 127. Zombie Reagan will be about the same.
I don’t really care if Franken had plans to run or not. Just saying he’s toast now and if he chooses to continue public service he’s going to need a think tank gig backing him.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mary G: Berman has been doing superb work on this topic for years, and he’s practically been screaming into the void by himself. It’s always nice to see when a publication like Rolling Stone and Mother Jones picks up his work, but I really wish it were in major newspapers as well.
I’ll add this article to my reading list for later. Thanks. (Like you, I don’t think I need the blood pressure spike right now.)
Yarrow
Speaking of up and coming Democrats. Beto O’Rourke is polling in single digits against Ted Cruz.
Gin & Tonic
I know this relates to a thread from much earlier in the day, but I see in my news feed that the President of MSU is expected to step down before the end of the week.
zhena gogolia
@Jager:
I’m sure it does!
Frankensteinbeck
@Groucho48:
Having read it, that is quite a first paragraph based on someone saying he views the budget and DACA negotiations as separate tracks. I guess Dems COULD be caving on the issue, but this sounds an awful lot like the fifty million articles I’ve read where a writer takes a quote out of context and constructs the political reality he wants to believe.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Gin & Tonic: A good first step, though I’d prefer a frog-marching out in handcuffs. There’s no way complicity in the cover-up doesn’t run through the whole university administration.
Another Scott
@Waratah: She was very good (but rushed) at the Women’s March in DC. C-Span has the video.
Cheers,
Scott.
JohnO
I like KG, too. I think the country will be especially willing to give a woman a do-over as well so that makes the timing nice when combined with the activism already apparent on the feminine side of the fence.
From what I’ve read the woman has a little bit of killer in her. A necessary trait. She’s photogenic, smart, and knows how to talk tough.
And I hope Warren runs too to give KG cover on the left.
trollhattan
@gene108:
Anybody who doesn’t think #MeToo has hold of the nation’s attention after the Nassar sentencing hearing and the huge turnout at the Woman’s’ March is not paying sufficient attention.
eemom
@Gin & Tonic:
She’s already stepped down. Check the breaking.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@trollhattan: Agreed, though I think it could be advantageous in some ways that some of them clearly aren’t paying attention. As I put it last night (quoting Sun Tzu, of course), all warfare is based on deception. The fact that these people are essentially deceiving themselves doesn’t make it any less fortuitous for us. If they don’t understand the full extent of people’s (particularly women’s and POC’s) fury, that’ll likely make November an easier climb.
Mike in DC
My ideal slate of 2020 candidates:
Kamala Harris
Corey Booker
Kristin Gillibrand
Xavier Becerra (alternatively, Julian Castro)
Random White Guy(Sherrod Brown, Tim Ryan, whatevs)
No Biden, no Sanders, and I doubt Warren runs.
Omnes Omnibus
@(((CassandraLeo))): Yes, I am hoping the GOP and the MSM don’t catch on until mid-November. Under the radar is good.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in DC: Kander.
zhena gogolia
@Mike in DC:
Sounds about right.
ETA: I vote for Chris Murphy as Random White Guy.
Gin & Tonic
@eemom: I’d read that they need to actually hold a board meeting to accept her resignation. Whatever, going, gone, all the same. It had to happen.
JCJ
@Adam L Silverman:
He could bust out some t.A.t.u. lyrics. That might work.
Groucho48
My main concern with Gillebrand is that she tends to adjust her position to her voters.Thats not necessarily a bad thing and when she moved to the Senate, she said she believed her job was to represent her district, but, she leaned liberal. Her time in the Senate mostly confirms this
As a NYS resident, I’d be fine with her as President.
Omnes Omnibus
@JCJ: t.A.t.u. has lyrics?
Groucho48
@trollhattan:
Like the MSM?
tobie
I’m not a fan of KG. She has always struck me as boring, and she went after a Senator who, as far as I can tell, was far more effective in his job than she is. That said, I’ll knock on doors for her and vote for her if she’s the party nominee.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike in DC: on behalf of Random White Guys, we have better than Tim Ryan. Kander and Murphy are good choices.
also, too
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: How did the chair of the Sloth Committee work up the energy to write a tweet?
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Fuck you, man. That’s a month’s work.
Corner Stone
@Mike in DC: Tim Ryan?? WTF is wrong with you?
JCJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
So I’m told.
Mike in DC
@Corner Stone: I don’t want a white guy to be the nominee. Hence the “random white guy” joke. Ryan is one of those RWGs mentioned as a possible candidate. I’m well aware of the lameness of Congressman Ryan.
Mike in DC
@zhena gogolia:
He would be good. Someone else mentioned Kander.
Groucho48
@Corner Stone:
Exactly my response I *hope* it’s 11th dimensional chess but, these are Dem Senators we’re talking about.
href=”https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/democrats-drop-dreamer-demand-with-budget-deal-in-reach-366992″>@Frankensteinbeck:
Well, it’s Politico. There are a lot if equivocations in the article, but, also, some scary quotes from Dems.
I don’t want to derail this thread more than I have, and, I expect, if there is anything to it, there’ll be a thread on it tomorrow.
Lyrebird
@zhena gogolia: Weird. I have met Sasha Malinin. Not that he would remember, as I was a kid helping carry bags…
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in DC: Oh, so I am just “someone else” now? After everything?
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mike in DC: If we’re going with currently serving congresscritters, Schiff wouldn’t be the worst white dude imaginable. The guy seems to do well on television and he’s clearly quick on his feet.
I definitely favour a not-white dude though, just because white dudes have been fucking up the country for so long that I mostly don’t trust them as much these days. Plus, white dudes seem overall to be lacking in empathy in comparison with people who have more systemic experiences being oppressed, and while being a minority or a woman doesn’t automatically guarantee that someone will have more empathy than a particular white dude, on the whole there seems to be a positive correlation. (And I’m saying this as someone who’s passed as a white dude for most of their life, though in the age of Trump I now actually consider myself neither of those things.)
Mike in DC
@Omnes Omnibus: My bad. You are part of what makes this a special place.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in DC: I was kidding. And by special, I assume you mean “can’t take them home to mom.”
Groucho48
@(((CassandraLeo))):
I really like Schiff. He has all the qualities and such liberals love. But, a flat, lawyerly, affect is not the way to the Presidency. Would that it wasn’t so, but, a Presidential candidate needs to show some fire and emotion.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Groucho48: I suspect you’re probably right, though there’s an outside chance that enough people will find exactly those qualities reassuring after 3+ years of the Trumpovich clown show (apologies to all the clowns I just libelled – I’m not sure even Pennywise deserved that). At this point, I’m not sure anyone can definitively predict what the American populace would be willing to go in for two years from now.
Mike in DC
@(((CassandraLeo))):
The more people talk about our need to appeal to the WWC and grab some Trump voters, the more determined I am that we go as far away from that as possible. And win big. Just to shut them up for a minute.
Omnes Omnibus
@(((CassandraLeo))): Work on this year.
Groucho48
@(((CassandraLeo))):
I really hope you are right. It might work if he gets a savage VP to run with him. I mean, I am impressed with the guy, but the things, I, a white middle class, somewhat intellectual guy likes has, hustorically,ranked. From Adlai Stevenson on.
Corner Stone
Why do people keep mentioning fucking clowns in this thread? What is wrong with you people?
Feebog
@zhena gogolia:
Second the motion for Chris Murphy. Smart, articulate, young and energetic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I have been trying to be polite about it, but really, yeah, why?
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, yes. But I can walk & chew gum at the same time.
@Corner Stone: @Omnes Omnibus: A weird convergence, I guess. I wasn’t consciously thinking of anyone else’s responses when I did so at least. I probably don’t always give as much consideration to coulrophobia as I perhaps should.
Steve in the ATL
@Corner Stone: http://www.clownsex.com
You’re welcome
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: DIAF. Won’t click.
(((CassandraLeo)))
I’m not clicking either, but I must admit to a hearty chuckle.
Corner Stone
@Steve in the ATL: If you can find clowns having sex with pandas, or clowns dressed as pandas, or pandas in clown makeup. Then we can talk.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: sorry, should be https
Fair Economist
@Corner Stone:
She’s quite in touch with reality. The reality is that extended shutdowns to obtain policy gains always fail. The reason is pretty simple – if there’s no federal government, we turn into Somalia, and that’s worse than almost any policy shift. When the shutdown starts to bite, the public blames the blockers.
Fair Economist
@Mike in DC:
And you are right. The WWC is not swinging in this election. More-educated white women are. That’s the group that will determine this election.
Bonnie
Is Chris Van Hollen on your list?
Denali
@The Emperor of Ice Cream
Try Peter Quince at the Clavier-Wallace Stevens.
glory b
@JohnO: Yeah, let me know when she uses that killer instinct on someone whose not a fellow Dem.
I’ll vote for her if she wins the primary, because I’m a member of the BASE (African American women). Otherwise, no. No reason she couldn’t have let the system play out for Franken, that whole thing smelled to high heaven, and she didn’t seem to catch on.
I haven’t heard anyone say they were coming out and voting Dem because of that move.
And another thing, what’s with the Me Too movement? I can see the need for it for actors and entertainers because they are independent contractors. I see it for members of the military because of the chain of command issue. But sexual harassment has been illegal since the seventies and there is the EEOC, state and local civil rights agencies and attorneys looking for wins around this issue for decades.
A friend of mine who is an investigator for a state agency said sexual harassment complaints have dropped in the last few years, and even Mom and Pop employers have cut and pasted harassment policies into their employee handbooks. Big employers investigate and fire within a day or two of getting the complaints because they don’t want the liability, and it’s an easy fix.
I heard someone on a progressive program call this uncharted territory. What? I’ll give Gillibrand a thumbs up for her work on the problem in the military, but she’s not inventing the wheel here.
glory b
@tobie: “…she went after a Senator who, as far as I can tell, was far more effective in his job than she is. That said, I’ll knock on doors for her and vote for her if she’s the party nominee.”
Yeah, pretty much this.
tam1MI
@Waratah: I know many Democrats who will happily give money, knock on doors, and vote for anybody who opposesaid Kristen Fucking Gillibrand, so yeah, I think she “fires people up”.
Me, personally, I will vote for ANDREW CUOMO each day of the week and twice on Sundays before I EVER vote for Kristen Fucking Gillibrand!
Stan
@gene108:
It was openly done in Albany county, Gillibrand’s home town in New York, until a couple years ago. The democratic-party-controlled county has lost 2 (maybe 3, I can’t recall) civil rights cases over it.
Gillibrand was nowhere to be seen during these very, very public events.
Stan
@tam1MI:
Wow, even I won’t go that far and I’m no fan of Gillibrand.
tam1MI
@Stan: To me they are basically two peas in a pod. They are both crass opportunists who will screw over allies, friends, and anyone else in the blink of an eye if they think it will serve their purposes. The only difference I see between them is that Cuomo doesn’t come trailing a band of obnoxious cultists in his wake who think his cutthroat narcissism passes for “bravery”. So yes, he is a better choice than Gillibrand, albeit marginally.