Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

T R E 4 5 O N

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

This fight is for everything.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Everybody saw this coming.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

You are here: Home / Politics / America / Official Democratic State of the Union Responses

Official Democratic State of the Union Responses

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Here’s the live feed for Congressman Kennedy’s official response to the 2018 State of the Union.

And here’s the live feed for Virginia House of Delegates Delagate Elizabeth Guzman’s official Democratic Party Spanish language response.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

207Comments

  4. 4.

    randy khan

    So, any quick recap for those of us who couldn’t even contemplate watching? (I did watch a DVRd episode of Superstore, starring Trump fave (*cough*) America Ferrara.)

  10. 10.

    Steeplejack

    He sounds like an over-excited sophomore at debate camp. No bueno.

    I think we really needed a low-key response, not bombast.

  15. 15.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, and when he turns his head one way it looked like a white sequin. It must be absorbing because it’s not as obvious now.

    I like “we choose both.”

    People have been yelling at me on Twitter for not loving Joe, but he is no Bobby or Jack.

  17. 17.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mary G:

    Joe’s got something weird in the corner of his mouth.

    I think he used too much lip balm, for fear of dry mouth.

    So far, he’s not giving a great speech, but at least he doesn’t sound like his handlers are still failing to get the mood stabilizers balanced, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkyoudo.

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    Of course there’s a tweet!

  27. 27.

    JWR

    Whoa! He speaks Spanish, too. That was good, though it certainly didn’t help HRC’s VP pick. (Seriously, what was that guy’s name, again?)

  31. 31.

    Steeplejack

    Damn, I thought Joe Kennedy’s speech was pretty pathetic. The “State of the Union rejoinder” curse continues.

  33. 33.

    Anne Laurie

    @Jane2:

    Joe was the best they could come up with?

    Well, he’s not embarrassing himself or his party (yet). And if he does, as people pointed out to me earlier, better Joe K III becomes a media punchline than one of the higher-profile “rising Democratic stars”…

  34. 34.

    BlueDWarrior

    I would like to know the last example of a good response to the State of the Union, especially since how botching them can be a hindrance to one’s future aspirations (coughRunningforPresidentcough).

  35. 35.

    Steeplejack

    And now what is worse is Chris Matthews tying this to Robert Kennedy. Did you know that Tweety has a book out about Bobby Kennedy? He does.

  39. 39.

    Anne Laurie

    @JWR:

    (Seriously, what was that guy’s name, again?)

    Tim Kaine. One of the few Americans watching the unfolding Russigate scandal with more interest than me.

  41. 41.

    Mary G

    It got better at the end, it ignored Trump, and it was short. Smart to hold it at a regional tech training place with automobiles in the background. Kind of a shot that Trump promises vocational training, we’re already doing it.

    ETA: Now, this is a response:

    I went to the #SOTU. I wanted it burned into my eyes. If there’s ever a moment when I’m too tired to keep fighting, I just have to close my eyes & see @realDonaldTrump , @mike_pence & @pryan applauding themselves for punching working families in the gut, & I'm back in this fight.— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabethforma) January 31, 2018

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    My Spanish isn’t good enough anymore to properly follow Delegate Guzman’s response, any of our Spanish speakers care to tell me how she did?

  46. 46.

    cain

    Man, I love Ovaltine.. I have some trader joe sipping chocolate stuff. Might not go well with the whiskey though. :D

    Well glad Joe did well. How about some Maxine Walters?

  47. 47.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Don’t understand all the hate for Joe III. I thought it was a fine, reassuring speech, not sleep-inducing at all.

    And OMG, he looks so much like his grandfather it’s almost scary.

  48. 48.

    Another Scott

    New Jersey Woman checks in. BBC News:

    A female traveller was recently banned from taking a large “emotional-support peacock” on board a United Airlines flight, it has emerged.

    She had offered to buy the bird its own plane ticket, according to travel blog Live and Let Fly.

    Nonetheless the airline refused to let the bird board at Newark airport in New Jersey, saying it did not meet guidelines due to its weight and size.

    United says this was explained to the traveller before she arrived at Newark.

    Pictures of the striking bird and its owner emerged via The Jet Set, a travel-based talk show.

    The images show the animal perched on an airport baggage trolley, as fellow passengers gaze at it in shock.

    The peacock is reportedly called Dexter, a rescue pet of Brooklyn-based artist Ventiko who documents the animal’s life on social media.

    […]

    Huge thing. I wouldn’t want to have the seat next to it!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  50. 50.

    Omnes Omnibus

    It was fine. It wasn’t great, but it was fine. We need to stop expecting Obama or even Bill Clinton. We are spoiled.

  52. 52.

    Tom Q

    Just to stand out from this crowd: I thought the kid did a terrific job. (And since I’m 66, I can call him a kid.) Some wonderful phrases, delivered with earnestness but feeling genuine. I came in with high expectations, having heard lots of positive things about him, and I felt he matched them.

    But, you know…the rest of you, just go on being Democrats, and frag your own team.

  55. 55.

    cain

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @Corner Stone: Tweety is drunk most of the time he’s on the air.

    My dad loves tweety, says he gives it to the conservatives or whatever. I don’t really like that guy. There is something obnoxious about him.

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: I am exceedingly disappointed that this woman is not from Florida and that this didn’t happen in Florida. Which is why I will not be doing a post about it.

  57. 57.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: I thought he was on the wagon these past several years? He’s talked about it before.

    Meanwhile, I think Rep Guzman is the person who beat a friend of mine in the D primary. (Friend went on to a good job and even better new relationship, so sometimes in life there really are happy endings all around!)

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: May very well be. But he seems to slur his words a lot, which was usually the giveaway with Charlie Rose when he was tanked on the air.

  62. 62.

    cain

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @SiubhanDuinne: He looks like Christopher Reeve from the Superman movie if Reeve had red hair. Right down to the spit curl.

    Perhaps he should have worn the costume! :D

  63. 63.

    Mary G

    @Mary G: Never mind, I found it on his website:

    Washington, DC – Rep. Luis V. Gutiérrez (D-IL) issued a statement after listening to the President’s State of the Union address. Rep. Luis V. Gutiérrez is a Member of the Judiciary Committee and the Chair of the Immigration Task Force of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

    Even though I disagreed with almost everything he said, for Trump, the speech was clear and well-delivered. Whoever translated it for him from Russian did a good job.

    I am still hopeful, but I don’t see this Congress and this President coming to an agreement that prevents the deportation of the Dreamers. The White House agenda is to gut legal immigration in exchange for allowing some of the Dreamers to live here. For those of us who support legal immigration, and that’s most Democrats and many Republicans, it won’t fly. And the Dreamers themselves have said they do not want legal status if it comes at the expense of others who will suffer more as part of the bargain. The speech did nothing to bring the pro- and anti-immigrant sides closer together.

    I was hoping for some sort of apology on Puerto Rico, but I heard nothing. Puerto Rico is a metaphor for how this President sees all Latinos and people of color: he does not see us as his equals and he does not see us as fellow human beings. If you look at how the President has treated Puerto Rico, you have to conclude that he just doesn’t care and probably thinks of Puerto Rico as just another shithole country.

    I was born in 1953 in the U.S. when separate but equal was the law of the land. I am proud of the progress the United States has made as a nation on issues of race, gender, sexual orientation, disabilities, and many other areas where we have advanced. I was hoping to get through my life without having to witness an outwardly, explicitly racist American President, but my luck ran out.

    He’s right that the Dreamers are probably going to get screwed, so he just let it all hang out. Good for Rep. Gutierrez. Chuck and Nancy can’t do it.

  65. 65.

    patroclus

    Wow – I think Joe is running for President. The passion for the Dreamers was evident and the analysis that, with Trump we always seem to be faced with a choice of which hostages to save (dreamers or family reunification; children’s health or dreamers; health care for seniors or the military; pensions or education; good wages or higher stock prices etc…) was accurate. Other than on this thread, perhaps, I think that’ll resonate (if seen).

  69. 69.

    cain

    @patroclus:

    Wow – I think Joe is running for President. The passion for the Dreamers was evident and the analysis that, with Trump we always seem to be faced with a choice of which hostages to save (dreamers or family reunification; children’s health or dreamers; health care for seniors or the military; pensions or education; good wages or higher stock prices etc…) was accurate. Other than on this thread, perhaps, I think that’ll resonate (if seen).

    Let’s stop with dynastic families running for President. After him, wil it be a Clinton? Or a Bush? Let’s find new blood. At least it seems we won’t have a Carter or an Obama unfortunately.

    ETA – it’s not unfortunately, it’s fortunately. I’m sure there is greatness out there.

  75. 75.

    Feebog

    Joe Kennedy did fine. First time in front of a National audience and he hit all his marks. Also did not dive to the floor for a glass of water or pick a background reminesent of an Anne Rice novel.

  76. 76.

    Jeffro

    Meanwhile, Trumpov & Co keep trying every angle to hold off Mueller, er, excuse me, I mean, act as if they’re TOTALLY INNOCENT:

    Trump Lawyers Argue Mueller Hasn’t “Met the Bar” for a Sit-Down:

    President Donald Trump’s attorneys are arguing that special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has not met the high threshold they believe is needed to interview a president in person, according to sources familiar with the ongoing deliberations.

    Despite the fact that Trump himself has said he is “looking forward” and would “love to” meet with Mueller, he did say any interview would be “subject to my lawyers,” who believe that Trump should not be required to do that.

    Sources said this is an ongoing negotiation and the position by the President’s lawyers is not a final stance.

    Oh good! So they’re still open to negotiating…something…

    B3Stix, when the time comes, don’t hold back, DROP IT ALL: the money laundering, the treason, abetting, knowledge of a crime, use of stolen property, and please lots and lots of RICO!! Just fucking fire for effect and let the rest of us sort it out in the streets and what not.

    I’m just curious, what was that ‘high threshold’ needed to interview Bill Clinton, again?

    What’s the threshold for getting the extended statements of an innocent man, again?

    Tell us, Donnie….

  77. 77.

    BlueDWarrior

    @cain: If people didn’t want dynastic blood in office, they wouldn’t vote for it. Or are we saying the people are too stupid to not just vote for the most recognizable name?

    Because if we’re saying that, then we need to rethink this whole “democracy” thing at its core.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cain: First off it isn’t a dynasty. His grand uncle got part of a term before being assassinated. His grandfather was assassinated before the election. His other grand uncle never got out of the primaries. There is no dynasty. There is a famous name as he’s from an elite and notable family. But far more members of his family have stayed out of politics than have been in it. Given he’s 37, my guess is he’d be angling for the VP spot on someone else’s ticket.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    @Anne Laurie: She just put out a statement right before the program that there was no affair, period. I guess she made all those excruciating details up??

    Who slipped her ANOTHER $130k? Why do I have a feeling the check was signed with a K-O-C-H or M-E-R-C-E-R signature?

  80. 80.

    cain

    @BlueDWarrior:

    @cain: If people didn’t want dynastic blood in office, they wouldn’t vote for it. Or are we saying the people are too stupid to not just vote for the most recognizable name?

    I realize the Kennedy name brings out nostalgia of some better time. If Joe was competent and can do the job, that’s great I won’t really care about his last name. But I just hate seeing the same people running for the Presidency. I feel like it’s the Roman empire or something where ruling families keep showing up to annoint themselves king.

  81. 81.

    Anne Laurie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But he seems to slur his words a lot, which was usually the giveaway with Charlie Rose when he was tanked on the air.

    I can say this as someone with a *lot* of Irish drunks in my family: After a certain amount of abuse, those brain cells never really come all the way back.

    Also too, if someone’s been slurring their speech for decades on end, it becomes a genuine verbal pattern, even if the intoxicant intake drops to zero.

    “Fun” Irish family reunion game: Is Gramps drinking again? Or just sundowning?… Well, how ’bout Uncle Joe / Pat / Bobby?… Aunt Margret Mary?

  82. 82.

    B

    Working downtown dc late tonight. Came out of building and discovered entire Penn Ave blocked off from Capitol to WH. Realized Trump must just be returning. Saw his cavalcade go by. Gave me the shivers (in a creepy way, not excited) to know he was so close. Yecch.

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: I think it’s what happens when he gets worked up, which is a lot. He lapses into his version of/take on ‘regular guy’ speak.

    One of my family members who used to work downtown a decade ago kinda has alluded to the ‘wagon’ stuff (as has Chris himself), which of course is no guarantee in any way and on any day. But still…

  85. 85.

    cain

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @cain: First off it isn’t a dynasty. His grand uncle got part of a term before being assassinated. His grandfather was assassinated before the election. His other grand uncle never got out of the primaries. There is no dynasty. There is a famous name as he’s from an elite and notable family. But far more members of his family have stayed out of politics than have been in it. Given he’s 37, my guess is he’d be angling for the VP spot on someone else’s ticket.

    His grand uncle though at the time he was in office made a name for himseff. His grandfather was going to win, he lit a fire. He was assassinated. But the Kennedy name is a strong political family name. Perhaps a number of them stay out of politics but I would say that could argued for the Bushes, yes?

  88. 88.

    condorcet runner-up

    I thought it was a solid speech, and enjoyed that it was hopeful and about the people, not the speaker. I wonder if my opinion differs from so many commenters because I listened to it while driving and missed out on the lip balm thing.

  89. 89.

    Anne Laurie

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I can certainly see that resemblance, but as one who remembers Bobby vividly, I’m sticking with grandfather genes.

    Mordant Irish-American trope: There’s only two Irish facial types, the Kennedy, or hatchet, and the Tip O’Neill, or potato.

  94. 94.

    Tom Q

    Apparently Russian bots are all over Twitter pushing “We don’t need dynasties”, which to me says they fear this kid. (As far as dynasty: the last time a Kennedy ran for president was almost 40 years ago. Is there a statute of limitations on when people in a family can seek higher office again?)

    Steve Schmidt, contrarily, said it was the best SOTU response he can remember. Which I think is going to be the more common opinion, outside this venue.

  95. 95.

    Citizen Alan

    @Another Scott:

    Do … do people just think they can arbitrarily declare any animal that crosses their path as a support animal and that gives them the right to carry it anywhere and everywhere?!? I’d like to see someone get onto a plane with the support cow or a support cobra. Do people just pick up an animal and yell :this is my support animal!” like Michael Scott from The Office thinking of that declaring bankruptcy simply means walking into a crowded room and yelling ! “I declare bankruptcy!” at the top of his lungs?

  99. 99.

    Cacti

    @Tom Q:

    Apparently Russian bots are all over Twitter pushing “We don’t need dynasties”,

    If that means no Trump sprog ever runs for office, I’m okay with the sentiment.

  101. 101.

    Starfish

    @Tom Q: It is not inspiring. It is antithetical to the American dream. “You can be anything in America, except if you are considering being President. That slot is reserved for a few rich families that have had other members who were President before.”

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cain: I’m not saying they’re not a notable political family. I’m just saying there isn’t a dynasty there.

  104. 104.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @cain:

    Let’s stop with dynastic families running for President. After him, wil it be a Clinton? Or a Bush? Let’s find new blood. At least it seems we won’t have a Carter or an Obama unfortunately.

    There hasn’t been a member of the Kennedy family in the White House in nearly 55 years. That’s a lot longer than the length of time between Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt, or between William Henry and Benjamin Harrison (I’ll give you the Adamses, though).

    But more to the point, we don’t generally clutch our pearls and moan about family-owned retail stores or farms or small manufacturing plants passed down from one generation to the next. Or for that matter, a family tradition of going into law or medicine? Why are “dynasties” in other lines of work held up as admirable, but pursuing a family tradition in public service/politics is considered suspect?

  105. 105.

    FlyingToaster

    @Omnes Omnibus: He didn’t, and won’t.

    Though not my rep* (I have Kathy Clark), he’s worked his butt off both down in Cape&Islands and in Middlesex Courts before running for Barney Frank’s old seat. While Joe III might well want to be president, he won’t try to run from a congressional seat. If anything, I’d expect him to be in the tussle for the next open Senate seat (Joe III vs Mayor Mike, no moves foul, good luck!).

    I adored Joe II when he was my rep in the old 8th; but he didn’t want to live in a fishbowl for the rest of his life.

    * I live 4 blocks from the 4th.

  110. 110.

    Cacti

    @Citizen Alan:

    Do … do people just think they can arbitrarily declare any animal that crosses their path as a support animal and that gives them the right to carry it anywhere and everywhere?!? I’d like to see someone get onto a plane with the support cow or a support cobra.

    I look forward to taking my therapy gorilla with me everywhere.

  111. 111.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Anne Laurie:

    Mordant Irish-American trope: There’s only two Irish facial types, the Kennedy, or hatchet, and the Tip O’Neill, or potato.

    Never heard that, but as ethnic stereotypes go it seems pretty accurate, if incomplete. I would include the James Galway “twinkly leprechaun” type.

  116. 116.

    Aleta

    Tommy Vietor
    @TVietor08

    I thought Trump’s “New American Moment” SOTU line sounded familiar. Sure enough, here it is in a 2010 speech by @HillaryClinton

    Hillary Clinton also used the phrase “new American moment” at her 2009 Senate confirmation hearing.

  118. 118.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Starfish: Candidates from “dynasties”: Hillary C, Romney, Bush, Kennedy, Roosevelt, and that takes us back to the Depression and the invention of modern mass media. Candidates not from “dynasties”: Trump, Obama, Bill C (started from nothing), Dukakis, Mondale, Reagan, Carter, Ford, McGovern, Nixon, Humphrey, Johnson, Eisenhower, Truman, and all those schmoes who ran against FDR. There’s no pattern, no trend, nothing. This is an absurd complaint that was cooked up such that Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton could be depicted as THE ESTABLISHMENT WITH TWO HEADS, and you see where that nonsense got the entire fucking country, dontcha?

  120. 120.

    patroclus

    Adam’s probably right that the V-P slot is probably more likely for Joe than POTUS, but that was the vibe I got from what Schmidt is describing as the best SOTU response in years. It definitely had an Obama 2004 feel to it as well. He covered all the Dem bases, from BLM to glbgT to teachers to auto workers etc… and he did it in 15-20 minutes. Like I said above, the best part was the analysis of Trump always forcing us to choose between which hostage to save (“we choose both”), but he also scored with if you build that wall, my generation is just going to tear it down.

    It’s interesting that the Russiabot response (no dynasty) is being echoed right here on this thread.

  122. 122.

    Starfish

    @Omnes Omnibus: You were being contrary for no reason. After GWB and his father, it is completely reasonable that some people have had enough of the dynasty nonsense.

    You are being contrary for no reason.

  126. 126.

    Tom Q

    @Starfish: No, after GWB, it is reasonable not to want an incompetent president, regardless of who his father was.

    As others are pointing out, your arbitrary standard would have ruled out FDR, one of the greatest presidents in history.

  127. 127.

    Adam L Silverman

    @patroclus: Well there has been a large amount of Russian language in the comments. We get much more and we’re going to have to self report to Bob Mueller.

  128. 128.

    FlyingToaster

    @Starfish: Fuck right the hell off.

    Every fucking profession except politics is allowed to encourage kids and grandkids to follow in their footsteps. But somehow wanting to be a professional politician is wrong.

    I wish that we had professional politicians running this gin joint right now, instead of the amateurs. I knew for a fact in 2008 that both Obama and Clinton were pros and were better at their jobs than I am at mine. I can’t say that about Trump or any of the current GOP leadership, and it’s depressing.

  130. 130.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Starfish: Do you also think it’s a pity that teams from the Bay Area win the World Series every year, because SF won three times in the 2010s and Oakland won it in 1989 and 3 times in the 1970s, OH SO OFTEN I’M SO BORED OF THIS THING THAT KEEPS HAPPENING

  132. 132.

    LanceThruster

    I really appreciated with Jimmy Dore’s critiques of both Kennedy and Bernie. I will look for Maxine Waters’ rebuttal to get posted.

  133. 133.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    Only 268 watching Jill Stein’s rambling SOTU rebuttal

    For real? Only 268 total people? Are you talking just about people in the room with her? Because 268 watching on TV won’t even register as a blip in the Nielsen ratings.

  145. 145.

    Millard Filmore

    @patroclus:

    It’s interesting that the Russiabot response (no dynasty) is being echoed right here on this thread.

    Did it start here? Is this a powerful blog or what?

  146. 146.

    stinger

    @Adam L Silverman: And, in her own right, was the most experienced and prepared presidential candidate ever. If Joe Kennedy works and learns and hones his qualifications and positions, I’d be happy to vote for him.

    Also, I’m in my 60s and have never seen a Kennedy on the ballot for president. What dynasty?

  149. 149.

    chopper

    @Starfish:

    That slot is reserved for a few rich families that have had other members who were President before.”

    far as I can tell only three presidents fit that bill, and only one of em sucked (bush), and another (fdr) was one of the best we’ve ever had. pretty stupid criticism if you ask me.

  150. 150.

    Adam L Silverman

    @FlipYrWhig: No doubt. And no argument on that point. I’m just saying that based on how we normally define a dynasty, she wouldn’t fit in the definition.

  152. 152.

    LanceThruster

    @Yutsano:

    A comedian who does some wonderfully astute commentary on his YouTube channel. He points out things that should be applauded or condemned, whoever is doing it, unlike party line MSM spokes-holes. He is a compelling progressive voice speaking for quite a few people of a similar mindset (like me).

  154. 154.

    LanceThruster

    @Yutsano:

    I’m nobody special, but it’s ideas that matter. The interwebs is one way to try to share them.

    So don’t lose the luster on your shiny metal ass.

  158. 158.

    LanceThruster

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No particular trust has been established, but that’s no reason to dismiss my observations outright. Many people here comment with “you might also find this interesting” recommendations and don’t cause a wave of pearl clutching. I put Jimmy Dore in that category.

  159. 159.

    B.B.A.

    Well, I for one am sick of white dudes (I’m a white dude and I can barely tolerate myself), and would rather a non-white and/or non-dude in the Presidency until approximately forever.

    But if we have to, the Kennedys certainly have oodles of charm. Hopefully this one isn’t as drinky or rapey as his predecessors.

  161. 161.

    Starfish

    @chopper: You guys see nothing wrong with more sons of other presidents also being President than Catholics, than women, than anyone who is not white. I get it.

  165. 165.

    FlyingToaster

    @Starfish: Not if they make their bones, as it were.

    The “dynasties”, IIRC:

    Adams: John and JQ
    Harrisons: Benjamin and William
    Roosevelts: Theodore and Franklin Delano
    Bush: GHW and GW

    I’d have been happier voting for Hillary Rodham (given that I kept my maiden name, duh). But politically, in the 21st century, we live in a fucking patriarchy and if you’re in politics, you change your name to the one that will get you name recognition.

    If you’re willing to do the fucking work — as I should point out, I do NOT work for an airline like either of my parents — you should garner the rewards thereof. Politics is a profession, same as engineering or academics or law or medicine or police or fire or military. And having a parent, grandparent, granduncles, cousins who’ve chosen that profession shouldn’t bar you from same, if you’re willing to do the work.

    Being a purity troll is unbecoming. Go away already.

  167. 167.

    FlyingToaster

    @Villago Delenda Est: He’s not that fucking skilled, though I’ll admit that he has Susan Collins’ number. FFS, I can’t expect better from a state that elected a human bowling jacket governor. Thank the FSM that we (The People’s Republic of Massachusetts) shed Maine in 1803.

  170. 170.

    hitchhiker

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Why are “dynasties” in other lines of work held up as admirable, but pursuing a family tradition in public service/politics is considered suspect?

    I think people do raise their eyebrows at young members of wealthy business families assuming leadership — I mean, look at the DT children or young Jared.

    What we don’t like is the assumption that they get to start at the top, in business or politics. We also don’t like that even if they screw up (like Jared, multiple times), they’re still entitled to leadership roles. Joe Kennedy went to law school. He was in the Peace Corps. He worked as an assistant DA. He ran for a House seat from his home district — and to me that’s pretty much a routine entry level resume, so I don’t have a problem with the way he’s paying dues, if that is in fact what he’s doing. The question is, does he work hard at those jobs? Is he a showboat? Slacker? Fool?

    Mostly I’m just glad to see a good-looking, 30-something, well-spoken, thoughtful Democrat willing to get on a big stage and articulate the message. Not gonna punish him for who his grandpa was.

  171. 171.

    FlyingToaster

    @Corner Stone: Since when? Collins is stupider than Paul LePage (the aforementioned bowling jacket), who it’s rumored she wants to replace. Which, if Maine votes her in, is no more than they’ll deserve. It’s like a state become manifestation of both-sides-ism.

  174. 174.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ve decided to avoid the rush and get it over with now rather than waiting till 2019.

    And with that I’m going to watch the Curse of Oak Island and rub my doggies’ bellies. Two hands, no waiting!

  177. 177.

    FlyingToaster

    Okay, in the annals of “WTF”, I present: No Safe Spaces, courtesy of Wonkette.

    I cannot imagine a show with a shorter shelf-life than this. Even that half-hour-news-hour thang at Fox years ago.

  178. 178.

    Gretchen

    If that speech was given by Joe Nobody from Nowhere, South Dakota, I’d be saying “We’ve got a star, people. Watch this guy.” It’s not his bloodline. He’s just genuinely good.

  183. 183.

    jl

    @Tenar Arha: Thanks. I want to listen to all of them too.

    I think Kennedy gave a better speech. But I think the mechanics of BS’s approach better for a response: don’t waste time with any fancy speech tricks Just start calling out the asshole’s lies and BS nonstop right out of the gate.

    Maybe responses to SOTU is not a good platform for showing off new politicians. It’s a dirty job that needs a someone willing to get down and dirty and stay there the whole time, with a lead pipe and brass knuckles.

  184. 184.

    Gretchen

    @FlyingToaster: You’re so right! If there’s a doctor whose child follows in his footsteps and learns from him, that’ wonderful. But if a child learns from a politician father, dynasty! Stop it!

  185. 185.

    jl

    I think Kennedy gave a better speech. But I think the mechanics of BS’s approach better for a response: don’t waste time with any fancy speech tricks Just start calling out the asshole’s lies and BS nonstop right out of the gate.

    Maybe response to SOTU is not a good platform for showing off up-and-coming politicians. It’s a dirty job that needs a someone willing to get down and dirty and stay there the whole time, with a lead pipe.

    Edit: huh, b r * ss N*kkls is a forbidden word. I did not know that.

    Edit2: and thanks to Tenar Arha: for info on Waters’ response. I want to watch that one too.

  186. 186.

    ruemara

    Goddamn. Y’all are harsh. I don’t care if he’s a Kennedy. He’s on the side of good. He doesn’t have to give soaring oration. Oration doesn’t truly lead to lasting change. See how many spent more time bitching about Obama than pitching in to do the work from 09 on. Jeez.

  188. 188.

    Elizabelle

    @ruemara: Seconded.

    That said, I did not watch a moment of the SOTU, or the response, and don’t plan to. (Might catch a tad of Joe K3 later. But no Trump. Absolutely no Trump. Or any of the MSM hyenas punditing about what it all means.)

  189. 189.

    jl

    @ruemara: I think Kennedy gave a good speech, and did what was asked of him. I just think that both the GOP and Democratic party establishments are wrong about what makes for a good response. Especially for a criminal like Trump, I think it needs to be a brutal demolition job, right to the point, efficient, not a wasted moment or word. Not a time to make a nice or inspiing or good impression, Need a reality therapist who doesn’t give a shit about anything other than dismantling bullshit.

    Edit: and BS didn’t do it particularly well. It was far too long. But he had the better approach.

  194. 194.

    jl

    @LanceThruster: It was effective. More likely to get picked over for soundbites and invites in hope of more thunder on the news talkie shows.

    Thinking in terms of whether a response is a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ speech is a mistake. Was it effective or ineffective is the only thing that matters.
    The opening was particularly good, when he summed up in a few seconds what he would do :I’m going to explain a lot crap Trump didn’t mention, call out his damned lies and explain how he’s full of crap, how he’s betrayed all his campaign promises, then I’ll talk about how we’ll beat that dipshit jackass like a rug.

    Maybe cranky and snarky old coots like Sanders, Biden and Dingell, or bad ass bulldogs like John Lewis should always give responses.

  196. 196.

    magurakurin

    @Adam L Silverman:

    She began with a little background about herself being an immigrant from Peru and the first Latina immigrant elected to the Virginia state house. She talked about America’s promise and its founding principles of building a society that is equal for all and giving opportunity to anyone. She then called out Trump by name for betraying these ideals and very forcefully attacked both him and his policies, which she listed off. Parts were very populist and condemned the tax bill for giving so much to the top 1% and condemned the administration for catered to the wealthy and privileged while ignoring the middle class and the underprivileged. She stated the Democrats were fighting to change this and re-establish America’s values but also made a very forceful call to action, extolling people to make their voices heard, to organize, to demonstrate and to vote. It was a pretty good speech. More forceful and direct than Kennedy’s. But I thought Kennedy’s speech was good. If someone open’s Joe’s eyes about his misguided views on marijuana legalization he will be a force to contend with.

  201. 201.

    stinger

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Make that a Super Blue Blood Moon. Like, an incredible moon, Trump has the best moons, people will be talking about this moon for years to come. Believe me.

    (super = the moon is close to earth and looks big) (blue = 2nd full moon in one calendar month) (blood = it looks reddish under the earth’s shadow) (You probably know all that!)

  202. 202.

    WaterGirl

    @Tenar Arha: Thank you! No wonder I couldn’t find a live link anywhere and even Tivo couldn’t find the TV show that is referenced. I am looking forward to Maxine’s take on this.

  203. 203.

    WaterGirl

    Reading this thread in the light of day, all the criticism of Joe III and “oh no, dynasty!” seems pretty dumb.

    I though this was Balloon Juice, where we’re always saying: enough with all these old people, where’s the young blood in the democratic party? Why don’t we do anything to promote the up-and-comers, to help the rising stars?

    If I gave you the thousand dollar toy you were desperate to have, you would bitch that there were no batteries in it. At which point I might just take the damn toy back and say never mind, you are too ungrateful to deserve this.

  204. 204.

    WaterGirl

    @WaterGirl: P.S.

    Not to mention that if Joe III is interested in politics, Bobby Kennedy and JFK both gave their lives in service to their country. They were assassinated. For all you know – if he even wants to be president someday – it could be because of a burning desire to finish the work they started.

    So here’s a possibly charismatic guy who has a great story – and you want to throw him under the bus. His speaking style was too slow for me, so I didn’t have the patience for it and turned off the video after about a minute, so I’m not saying I’m in the love with the guy, but geez. Get a grip.

  205. 205.

    J R in WV

    @cain:

    I wouldn’t let Tweety be alone in a room with my daughter (even if I had one!) if the doors were wide open. Or my wife, or my mom, or cousins. He’s def on the sociopath-psychopath scale somewhere. Something is super Not Right about him and it shows in his affect and appearance.

  206. 206.

    J R in WV

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Mordant Irish-American trope: There’s only two Irish facial types, the Kennedy, or hatchet, and the Tip O’Neill, or potato.

    Never heard that, but as ethnic stereotypes go it seems pretty accurate, if incomplete. I would include the James Galway “twinkly leprechaun” type.

    When you get to the wee folk, never forget that for every good fairy/leprechaun/elf there’s a black elf/fairy out there. I offer up as proof the Very Dark leprechaun, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, who would never fail to offer an old person out on a dark cold dank night a steaming, hot pot of poison soup. With a big toothy smile!!

  207. 207.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    [Joe Kennedy’s] grand uncle got part of a term before being assassinated. His grandfather was assassinated before the election. His other grand uncle never got out of the primaries. There is no dynasty. There is a famous name as he’s from an elite and notable family. But far more members of his family have stayed out of politics than have been in it. Given he’s 37, my guess is he’d be angling for the VP spot on someone else’s ticket.

    Did he work for Senator Bernard Sanders in the last presidential campaign? If not, he’s my man. Anyone who actually worked for Sanders is of dubious intelligence and lacks the ability to discern a con artist working on them.

    My problem with Beto in Texas, he was a Bernie bro. I contributed to the campaign, but I won’t be working hard for him, just can’t do it for a Bernie bro.

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