Here’s the live feed for Congressman Kennedy’s official response to the 2018 State of the Union.
And here’s the live feed for Virginia House of Delegates Delagate Elizabeth Guzman’s official Democratic Party Spanish language response.
Open thread!
by Adam L Silverman| 207 Comments
This post is in: America, Domestic Politics, Election 2016, Election 2018, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics, Popular Culture, Post-racial America
Here’s the live feed for Congressman Kennedy’s official response to the 2018 State of the Union.
And here’s the live feed for Virginia House of Delegates Delagate Elizabeth Guzman’s official Democratic Party Spanish language response.
Open thread!
Comments are closed.
Corner Stone
Pick it up, Joe.
Mary G
Joe’s got something weird in the corner of his mouth.
WaterGirl
Is there a feed of Maxine Waters? I would like to watch hers, too.
randy khan
So, any quick recap for those of us who couldn’t even contemplate watching? (I did watch a DVRd episode of Superstore, starring Trump fave (*cough*) America Ferrara.)
Omnes Omnibus
Is anyone else getting “Let’s Dance” era Bowie vibe from the Joe Kennedy still?
Corner Stone
Pick.It.Up.Joe.
Jane2
Joe was the best they could come up with?
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: Errant lip balm that the makeup person missed.
Corner Stone
I’m about to fall asleep. Somebody take the metronome away from Joe.
Steeplejack
He sounds like an over-excited sophomore at debate camp. No bueno.
I think we really needed a low-key response, not bombast.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: I couldn’t find one. Or I would have included it.
Neldob
A good speech spoken badly. Nerves?
Mike in DC
Eh, I think Ginger Christopher Reeve is doing okay.
celticdragonchick
OMG this speech is nyquil…
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, and when he turns his head one way it looked like a white sequin. It must be absorbing because it’s not as obvious now.
I like “we choose both.”
People have been yelling at me on Twitter for not loving Joe, but he is no Bobby or Jack.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Mike in DC:
Me, too. He’s eloquent and not stumbling over words. Pace is a bit staccato maybe.
Anne Laurie
@Mary G:
I think he used too much lip balm, for fear of dry mouth.
So far, he’s not giving a great speech, but at least he doesn’t sound like his handlers are still failing to get the mood stabilizers balanced, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkyoudo.
cain
Damn, that sleepy of a speech?
JWR
Yeah, this rebuttal may be good, but the delivery, and the deliverer, don’t cut my mustard.
zhena gogolia
@Mike in DC:
He’s doing fine with an impossible task. He’s saying all the right things.
Tinare
It’s a tough gig. Very few of these come off well.
Corner Stone
I’m…i’m…zzzzzz….
cain
Do I need to give people some warm milk.. blanket?
Adam L Silverman
@cain: He’s doing fine.
Corner Stone
@Mary G: Look left 2,3,4. Look right 2,3,4. Straight ahead now 2,3,4.
Adam L Silverman
Of course there’s a tweet!
JWR
Whoa! He speaks Spanish, too. That was good, though it certainly didn’t help HRC’s VP pick. (Seriously, what was that guy’s name, again?)
Corner Stone
@cain: Flannel blankie, please?
James E. Powell
@cain:
Ovaltine?
Adam L Silverman
@JWR: Dijon? Stone ground? Deli style?
Steeplejack
Damn, I thought Joe Kennedy’s speech was pretty pathetic. The “State of the Union rejoinder” curse continues.
debit
You guys are so fucking cynical. I was moved. No soaring rhetoric, but earnest and heartfelt.
Anne Laurie
@Jane2:
Well, he’s not embarrassing himself or his party (yet). And if he does, as people pointed out to me earlier, better Joe K III becomes a media punchline than one of the higher-profile “rising Democratic stars”…
BlueDWarrior
I would like to know the last example of a good response to the State of the Union, especially since how botching them can be a hindrance to one’s future aspirations (coughRunningforPresidentcough).
Steeplejack
And now what is worse is Chris Matthews tying this to Robert Kennedy. Did you know that Tweety has a book out about Bobby Kennedy? He does.
Adam L Silverman
Content was very good. Delivery was a bit choppy, but overall he did fine.
Corner Stone
“Breath fresh of, ummm..idealism”
/Tweety
Chris Matthews has lost his mental shit.
zhena gogolia
@BlueDWarrior:
I cannot remember anyone ever receiving praise for one of these.
Anne Laurie
@JWR:
Tim Kaine. One of the few Americans watching the unfolding Russigate scandal with more interest than me.
Old Dan and Little Anne
Bobby Jindal’s response was an all time great.
Mary G
It got better at the end, it ignored Trump, and it was short. Smart to hold it at a regional tech training place with automobiles in the background. Kind of a shot that Trump promises vocational training, we’re already doing it.
ETA: Now, this is a response:
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Tweety is drunk most of the time he’s on the air.
Adam L Silverman
My Spanish isn’t good enough anymore to properly follow Delegate Guzman’s response, any of our Spanish speakers care to tell me how she did?
James E. Powell
@zhena gogolia:
This is the first one I’ve watched even a part of. JPK3 is only 37, he will grow.
Mike in DC
Picking a quasi-millenial and striking a hopeful tone is a pretty good choice.
cain
Man, I love Ovaltine.. I have some trader joe sipping chocolate stuff. Might not go well with the whiskey though. :D
Well glad Joe did well. How about some Maxine Walters?
SiubhanDuinne
Don’t understand all the hate for Joe III. I thought it was a fine, reassuring speech, not sleep-inducing at all.
And OMG, he looks so much like his grandfather it’s almost scary.
Another Scott
New Jersey Woman checks in. BBC News:
Huge thing. I wouldn’t want to have the seat next to it!
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@cain: I couldn’t find a live stream. I looked.
Omnes Omnibus
It was fine. It wasn’t great, but it was fine. We need to stop expecting Obama or even Bill Clinton. We are spoiled.
r€nato
Drop dead, Donnie
Tom Q
Just to stand out from this crowd: I thought the kid did a terrific job. (And since I’m 66, I can call him a kid.) Some wonderful phrases, delivered with earnestness but feeling genuine. I came in with high expectations, having heard lots of positive things about him, and I felt he matched them.
But, you know…the rest of you, just go on being Democrats, and frag your own team.
Mary G
Adam, put this one up, it’s FIRE (in the photo I can’t post).
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: He looks like Christopher Reeve from the Superman movie if Reeve had red hair. Right down to the spit curl.
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
My dad loves tweety, says he gives it to the conservatives or whatever. I don’t really like that guy. There is something obnoxious about him.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: I am exceedingly disappointed that this woman is not from Florida and that this didn’t happen in Florida. Which is why I will not be doing a post about it.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: I thought he was on the wagon these past several years? He’s talked about it before.
Meanwhile, I think Rep Guzman is the person who beat a friend of mine in the D primary. (Friend went on to a good job and even better new relationship, so sometimes in life there really are happy endings all around!)
zhena gogolia
@cain:
Somebody said she’s speaking tomorrow night.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: Here you go:
JWR
@Anne Laurie:
That’s the one! Thank you. But I’ll never forget my feeling upon hearing that he’d been picked. It was this: “Who?”
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: May very well be. But he seems to slur his words a lot, which was usually the giveaway with Charlie Rose when he was tanked on the air.
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
Perhaps he should have worn the costume! :D
Mary G
@Mary G: Never mind, I found it on his website:
He’s right that the Dreamers are probably going to get screwed, so he just let it all hang out. Good for Rep. Gutierrez. Chuck and Nancy can’t do it.
Ohio Mom
@randy khan: Try Kevin Drum’s blog at Mother Jones. He live-blogged it and has a link to the transcript. Executive summary: same old same old.
patroclus
Wow – I think Joe is running for President. The passion for the Dreamers was evident and the analysis that, with Trump we always seem to be faced with a choice of which hostages to save (dreamers or family reunification; children’s health or dreamers; health care for seniors or the military; pensions or education; good wages or higher stock prices etc…) was accurate. Other than on this thread, perhaps, I think that’ll resonate (if seen).
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
I can certainly see that resemblance, but as one who remembers Bobby vividly, I’m sticking with grandfather genes.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: She’s speaking tonight. Probably already done. You had to go to either BET on cable/satellite or their streaming service online.
zhena gogolia
@SiubhanDuinne:
I almost felt it was more JFK than RFK.
cain
@patroclus:
Let’s stop with dynastic families running for President. After him, wil it be a Clinton? Or a Bush? Let’s find new blood. At least it seems we won’t have a Carter or an Obama unfortunately.
ETA – it’s not unfortunately, it’s fortunately. I’m sure there is greatness out there.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: I understand. From the pictures he does resemble his grandfather.
Mike in DC
Kamala Harris briefly on MSNBC. Think she’s a good potential 2020 candidate.
Anne Laurie
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks, Adam. I fucking love that “whoever translated it for him from the Russian did a good job,” and the last line says it all.
cain
@Anne Laurie:
That is A level trolling.
Feebog
Joe Kennedy did fine. First time in front of a National audience and he hit all his marks. Also did not dive to the floor for a glass of water or pick a background reminesent of an Anne Rice novel.
Jeffro
Meanwhile, Trumpov & Co keep trying every angle to hold off Mueller, er, excuse me, I mean, act as if they’re TOTALLY INNOCENT:
Trump Lawyers Argue Mueller Hasn’t “Met the Bar” for a Sit-Down:
Oh good! So they’re still open to negotiating…something…
B3Stix, when the time comes, don’t hold back, DROP IT ALL: the money laundering, the treason, abetting, knowledge of a crime, use of stolen property, and please lots and lots of RICO!! Just fucking fire for effect and let the rest of us sort it out in the streets and what not.
I’m just curious, what was that ‘high threshold’ needed to interview Bill Clinton, again?
What’s the threshold for getting the extended statements of an innocent man, again?
Tell us, Donnie….
BlueDWarrior
@cain: If people didn’t want dynastic blood in office, they wouldn’t vote for it. Or are we saying the people are too stupid to not just vote for the most recognizable name?
Because if we’re saying that, then we need to rethink this whole “democracy” thing at its core.
Adam L Silverman
@cain: First off it isn’t a dynasty. His grand uncle got part of a term before being assassinated. His grandfather was assassinated before the election. His other grand uncle never got out of the primaries. There is no dynasty. There is a famous name as he’s from an elite and notable family. But far more members of his family have stayed out of politics than have been in it. Given he’s 37, my guess is he’d be angling for the VP spot on someone else’s ticket.
Jeffro
@Anne Laurie: She just put out a statement right before the program that there was no affair, period. I guess she made all those excruciating details up??
Who slipped her ANOTHER $130k? Why do I have a feeling the check was signed with a K-O-C-H or M-E-R-C-E-R signature?
cain
@BlueDWarrior:
I realize the Kennedy name brings out nostalgia of some better time. If Joe was competent and can do the job, that’s great I won’t really care about his last name. But I just hate seeing the same people running for the Presidency. I feel like it’s the Roman empire or something where ruling families keep showing up to annoint themselves king.
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman:
I can say this as someone with a *lot* of Irish drunks in my family: After a certain amount of abuse, those brain cells never really come all the way back.
Also too, if someone’s been slurring their speech for decades on end, it becomes a genuine verbal pattern, even if the intoxicant intake drops to zero.
“Fun” Irish family reunion game: Is Gramps drinking again? Or just sundowning?… Well, how ’bout Uncle Joe / Pat / Bobby?… Aunt Margret Mary?
B
Working downtown dc late tonight. Came out of building and discovered entire Penn Ave blocked off from Capitol to WH. Realized Trump must just be returning. Saw his cavalcade go by. Gave me the shivers (in a creepy way, not excited) to know he was so close. Yecch.
Mel
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes. It’s the floppy-banged Brit schoolboy hair that’s doing it, I think.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: I think it’s what happens when he gets worked up, which is a lot. He lapses into his version of/take on ‘regular guy’ speak.
One of my family members who used to work downtown a decade ago kinda has alluded to the ‘wagon’ stuff (as has Chris himself), which of course is no guarantee in any way and on any day. But still…
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
His grand uncle though at the time he was in office made a name for himseff. His grandfather was going to win, he lit a fire. He was assassinated. But the Kennedy name is a strong political family name. Perhaps a number of them stay out of politics but I would say that could argued for the Bushes, yes?
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: When did Joe Kennedy declare his candidacy for 2020?
Jeffro
@Anne Laurie: LOL ok that too…
condorcet runner-up
I thought it was a solid speech, and enjoyed that it was hopeful and about the people, not the speaker. I wonder if my opinion differs from so many commenters because I listened to it while driving and missed out on the lip balm thing.
Anne Laurie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Mordant Irish-American trope: There’s only two Irish facial types, the Kennedy, or hatchet, and the Tip O’Neill, or potato.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Yeah. Kiss of death.
Steeplejack
Just remembered that Colbert is supposed to be live tonight. Coming on in 10 minutes.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mel: Hey, watch it! My hair just ain’t curly.
Steeplejack
@Mary G:
Right on, sister!
Tom Q
Apparently Russian bots are all over Twitter pushing “We don’t need dynasties”, which to me says they fear this kid. (As far as dynasty: the last time a Kennedy ran for president was almost 40 years ago. Is there a statute of limitations on when people in a family can seek higher office again?)
Steve Schmidt, contrarily, said it was the best SOTU response he can remember. Which I think is going to be the more common opinion, outside this venue.
Citizen Alan
@Another Scott:
Do … do people just think they can arbitrarily declare any animal that crosses their path as a support animal and that gives them the right to carry it anywhere and everywhere?!? I’d like to see someone get onto a plane with the support cow or a support cobra. Do people just pick up an animal and yell :this is my support animal!” like Michael Scott from The Office thinking of that declaring bankruptcy simply means walking into a crowded room and yelling ! “I declare bankruptcy!” at the top of his lungs?
Starfish
@cain:
This, please.
Adam L Silverman
@Anne Laurie: Tracking.
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish: FDR sure sucked.
Cacti
@Tom Q:
If that means no Trump sprog ever runs for office, I’m okay with the sentiment.
randy khan
@Ohio Mom:
I think that’s enough for me.
Starfish
@Tom Q: It is not inspiring. It is antithetical to the American dream. “You can be anything in America, except if you are considering being President. That slot is reserved for a few rich families that have had other members who were President before.”
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Only 268 watching Jill Stein’s rambling SOTU rebuttal
Adam L Silverman
@cain: I’m not saying they’re not a notable political family. I’m just saying there isn’t a dynasty there.
SiubhanDuinne
@cain:
There hasn’t been a member of the Kennedy family in the White House in nearly 55 years. That’s a lot longer than the length of time between Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt, or between William Henry and Benjamin Harrison (I’ll give you the Adamses, though).
But more to the point, we don’t generally clutch our pearls and moan about family-owned retail stores or farms or small manufacturing plants passed down from one generation to the next. Or for that matter, a family tradition of going into law or medicine? Why are “dynasties” in other lines of work held up as admirable, but pursuing a family tradition in public service/politics is considered suspect?
FlyingToaster
@Omnes Omnibus: He didn’t, and won’t.
Though not my rep* (I have Kathy Clark), he’s worked his butt off both down in Cape&Islands and in Middlesex Courts before running for Barney Frank’s old seat. While Joe III might well want to be president, he won’t try to run from a congressional seat. If anything, I’d expect him to be in the tussle for the next open Senate seat (Joe III vs Mayor Mike, no moves foul, good luck!).
I adored Joe II when he was my rep in the old 8th; but he didn’t want to live in a fishbowl for the rest of his life.
* I live 4 blocks from the 4th.
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish: John Quincy Adams sucked too. Right?
Starfish
@cain: Uncle Ted Kennedy apparently never existed.
Starfish
@Omnes Omnibus: The presidency is completely fine as it is. It is a place for manly men and their fathers.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlyingToaster: My question was rhetorical, of course.
Cacti
@Citizen Alan:
I look forward to taking my therapy gorilla with me everywhere.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie:
Never heard that, but as ethnic stereotypes go it seems pretty accurate, if incomplete. I would include the James Galway “twinkly leprechaun” type.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
The only real Dynasty are the Carringtons
The Thin Black Duke
@Starfish: Lame.
trollhattan
@Anne Laurie:
Aww damn, too good.
T S
@Mary G: ala Ted Cruz.
Aleta
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish: Ted ran nearly 40 years ago.
@Starfish: Please point out where I said that. Or fuck off.
FlipYrWhig
@Starfish: Candidates from “dynasties”: Hillary C, Romney, Bush, Kennedy, Roosevelt, and that takes us back to the Depression and the invention of modern mass media. Candidates not from “dynasties”: Trump, Obama, Bill C (started from nothing), Dukakis, Mondale, Reagan, Carter, Ford, McGovern, Nixon, Humphrey, Johnson, Eisenhower, Truman, and all those schmoes who ran against FDR. There’s no pattern, no trend, nothing. This is an absurd complaint that was cooked up such that Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton could be depicted as THE ESTABLISHMENT WITH TWO HEADS, and you see where that nonsense got the entire fucking country, dontcha?
Omnes Omnibus
@Aleta: Golly.
patroclus
Adam’s probably right that the V-P slot is probably more likely for Joe than POTUS, but that was the vibe I got from what Schmidt is describing as the best SOTU response in years. It definitely had an Obama 2004 feel to it as well. He covered all the Dem bases, from BLM to glbgT to teachers to auto workers etc… and he did it in 15-20 minutes. Like I said above, the best part was the analysis of Trump always forcing us to choose between which hostage to save (“we choose both”), but he also scored with if you build that wall, my generation is just going to tear it down.
It’s interesting that the Russiabot response (no dynasty) is being echoed right here on this thread.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne:
So AG Sessions is good to go?
Starfish
@Omnes Omnibus: You were being contrary for no reason. After GWB and his father, it is completely reasonable that some people have had enough of the dynasty nonsense.
You are being contrary for no reason.
Adam L Silverman
@FlipYrWhig: Hillary Clinton is not part of a political dynasty. She’s not President Clinton’s daughter or sister or niece.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
I saw him speak at UCLA before the CA primary(I voted for JC), still have the campaign button.
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish: So you can’t answer me. Noted. Thank you.
Tom Q
@Starfish: No, after GWB, it is reasonable not to want an incompetent president, regardless of who his father was.
As others are pointing out, your arbitrary standard would have ruled out FDR, one of the greatest presidents in history.
Adam L Silverman
@patroclus: Well there has been a large amount of Russian language in the comments. We get much more and we’re going to have to self report to Bob Mueller.
FlyingToaster
@Starfish: Fuck right the hell off.
Every fucking profession except politics is allowed to encourage kids and grandkids to follow in their footsteps. But somehow wanting to be a professional politician is wrong.
I wish that we had professional politicians running this gin joint right now, instead of the amateurs. I knew for a fact in 2008 that both Obama and Clinton were pros and were better at their jobs than I am at mine. I can’t say that about Trump or any of the current GOP leadership, and it’s depressing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: True.
FlipYrWhig
@Starfish: Do you also think it’s a pity that teams from the Bay Area win the World Series every year, because SF won three times in the 2010s and Oakland won it in 1989 and 3 times in the 1970s, OH SO OFTEN I’M SO BORED OF THIS THING THAT KEEPS HAPPENING
?BillinGlendaleCA
@patroclus:
I’ve not seen it, but that’s a rather low bar.
LanceThruster
I really appreciated with Jimmy Dore’s critiques of both Kennedy and Bernie. I will look for Maxine Waters’ rebuttal to get posted.
SiubhanDuinne
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
For real? Only 268 total people? Are you talking just about people in the room with her? Because 268 watching on TV won’t even register as a blip in the Nielsen ratings.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlyingToaster: Well said.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Starfish:
You do know Omnes is an attorney? Actually he’s right here.
FlipYrWhig
@Adam L Silverman: I guarantee you that at least 95% the people who carp about “political dynasties” mean to include Hillary Clinton in the indictment.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: No one cares.
FlyingToaster
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, please. Let the NSA do their damn jobs and report on us jackals like they’re paid to.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
I figured you’d go die in a fire instead.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@FlipYrWhig:
That title was a bit shakey.
Tenar Arha
@WaterGirl: Turns out tomorrow is Rep. Waters. Wednesday, January 31 at 10PM ET for the BET News special “Angela Rye’s State of the Union.”
Yutsano
@LanceThruster: Who the fuck is Jimmy Dore?
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Hey!
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yutsano did.
Millard Filmore
@patroclus:
Did it start here? Is this a powerful blog or what?
stinger
@Adam L Silverman: And, in her own right, was the most experienced and prepared presidential candidate ever. If Joe Kennedy works and learns and hones his qualifications and positions, I’d be happy to vote for him.
Also, I’m in my 60s and have never seen a Kennedy on the ballot for president. What dynasty?
dww44
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you. I’m clapping.
FlipYrWhig
@Yutsano: And is his middle name “car,” and, if so, does he have an emergency locksmith business?
chopper
@Starfish:
far as I can tell only three presidents fit that bill, and only one of em sucked (bush), and another (fdr) was one of the best we’ve ever had. pretty stupid criticism if you ask me.
Adam L Silverman
@FlipYrWhig: No doubt. And no argument on that point. I’m just saying that based on how we normally define a dynasty, she wouldn’t fit in the definition.
Yutsano
@LanceThruster: To quote that great Robot Bender Bending Rodriguez:
“Who are you, and why should I care?”
LanceThruster
@Yutsano:
A comedian who does some wonderfully astute commentary on his YouTube channel. He points out things that should be applauded or condemned, whoever is doing it, unlike party line MSM spokes-holes. He is a compelling progressive voice speaking for quite a few people of a similar mindset (like me).
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: I don’t trust you. Why should I?
LanceThruster
@Yutsano:
I’m nobody special, but it’s ideas that matter. The interwebs is one way to try to share them.
So don’t lose the luster on your shiny metal ass.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
Is your other “figuring” as poorly executed?
Mike in NC
So not much of a response to Fat Bastard’s self-love-In? Color me not surprised.
Starfish
@FlipYrWhig: Yankees suck. That is all I know about baseball.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
No particular trust has been established, but that’s no reason to dismiss my observations outright. Many people here comment with “you might also find this interesting” recommendations and don’t cause a wave of pearl clutching. I put Jimmy Dore in that category.
B.B.A.
Well, I for one am sick of white dudes (I’m a white dude and I can barely tolerate myself), and would rather a non-white and/or non-dude in the Presidency until approximately forever.
But if we have to, the Kennedys certainly have oodles of charm. Hopefully this one isn’t as drinky or rapey as his predecessors.
FlyingToaster
@LanceThruster: Wait a minute, I’m the one with a shiny metal ass.
Starfish
@chopper: You guys see nothing wrong with more sons of other presidents also being President than Catholics, than women, than anyone who is not white. I get it.
Corner Stone
@B.B.A.:
I’ve been here for years.
Villago Delenda Est
@FlyingToaster: Not true. Yertle the Turtle is a skilled politician. It’s just that he’s utterly evil.
LanceThruster
@FlyingToaster:
There’s plenty of metal polish to go around. A wiping cheesecloth shines all butts.
FlyingToaster
@Starfish: Not if they make their bones, as it were.
The “dynasties”, IIRC:
Adams: John and JQ
Harrisons: Benjamin and William
Roosevelts: Theodore and Franklin Delano
Bush: GHW and GW
I’d have been happier voting for Hillary Rodham (given that I kept my maiden name, duh). But politically, in the 21st century, we live in a fucking patriarchy and if you’re in politics, you change your name to the one that will get you name recognition.
If you’re willing to do the fucking work — as I should point out, I do NOT work for an airline like either of my parents — you should garner the rewards thereof. Politics is a profession, same as engineering or academics or law or medicine or police or fire or military. And having a parent, grandparent, granduncles, cousins who’ve chosen that profession shouldn’t bar you from same, if you’re willing to do the work.
Being a purity troll is unbecoming. Go away already.
Corner Stone
Oh…a lullaby..I’m…i’m….zzzzzzz
FlyingToaster
@Villago Delenda Est: He’s not that fucking skilled, though I’ll admit that he has Susan Collins’ number. FFS, I can’t expect better from a state that elected a human bowling jacket governor. Thank the FSM that we (The People’s Republic of Massachusetts) shed Maine in 1803.
Corner Stone
@FlyingToaster: Susan Collins is not getting fooled.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@FlyingToaster: And only half of those were father/son pairs.
hitchhiker
@SiubhanDuinne:
I think people do raise their eyebrows at young members of wealthy business families assuming leadership — I mean, look at the DT children or young Jared.
What we don’t like is the assumption that they get to start at the top, in business or politics. We also don’t like that even if they screw up (like Jared, multiple times), they’re still entitled to leadership roles. Joe Kennedy went to law school. He was in the Peace Corps. He worked as an assistant DA. He ran for a House seat from his home district — and to me that’s pretty much a routine entry level resume, so I don’t have a problem with the way he’s paying dues, if that is in fact what he’s doing. The question is, does he work hard at those jobs? Is he a showboat? Slacker? Fool?
Mostly I’m just glad to see a good-looking, 30-something, well-spoken, thoughtful Democrat willing to get on a big stage and articulate the message. Not gonna punish him for who his grandpa was.
FlyingToaster
@Corner Stone: Since when? Collins is stupider than Paul LePage (the aforementioned bowling jacket), who it’s rumored she wants to replace. Which, if Maine votes her in, is no more than they’ll deserve. It’s like a state become manifestation of both-sides-ism.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are we really having a 2020 primary fight based on one speech?
?BillinGlendaleCA
Nobody noticed that Trump’s “speech is being followed in a few hours by a “Blood Red Moon”?
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ve decided to avoid the rush and get it over with now rather than waiting till 2019.
And with that I’m going to watch the Curse of Oak Island and rub my doggies’ bellies. Two hands, no waiting!
Adam L Silverman
We are definitely off the looking glass and through the map:
mskitty
@Corner Stone: You mean she’s been choosing to look like it?
FlyingToaster
Okay, in the annals of “WTF”, I present: No Safe Spaces, courtesy of Wonkette.
I cannot imagine a show with a shorter shelf-life than this. Even that half-hour-news-hour thang at Fox years ago.
Gretchen
If that speech was given by Joe Nobody from Nowhere, South Dakota, I’d be saying “We’ve got a star, people. Watch this guy.” It’s not his bloodline. He’s just genuinely good.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Well, when you’ve lost John Yoo…
Mnemosyne
@FlyingToaster:
When do we get to deport convicted drug felon Tim Allen back to Canada?
afanasia
@Cacti: I am my cat’s support animal.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: “They don’t send us their best…”
jl
@Tenar Arha: Thanks. I want to listen to all of them too.
I think Kennedy gave a better speech. But I think the mechanics of BS’s approach better for a response: don’t waste time with any fancy speech tricks Just start calling out the asshole’s lies and BS nonstop right out of the gate.
Maybe responses to SOTU is not a good platform for showing off new politicians. It’s a dirty job that needs a someone willing to get down and dirty and stay there the whole time, with a lead pipe and brass knuckles.
Gretchen
@FlyingToaster: You’re so right! If there’s a doctor whose child follows in his footsteps and learns from him, that’ wonderful. But if a child learns from a politician father, dynasty! Stop it!
jl
I think Kennedy gave a better speech. But I think the mechanics of BS’s approach better for a response: don’t waste time with any fancy speech tricks Just start calling out the asshole’s lies and BS nonstop right out of the gate.
Maybe response to SOTU is not a good platform for showing off up-and-coming politicians. It’s a dirty job that needs a someone willing to get down and dirty and stay there the whole time, with a lead pipe.
Edit: huh, b r * ss N*kkls is a forbidden word. I did not know that.
Edit2: and thanks to Tenar Arha: for info on Waters’ response. I want to watch that one too.
ruemara
Goddamn. Y’all are harsh. I don’t care if he’s a Kennedy. He’s on the side of good. He doesn’t have to give soaring oration. Oration doesn’t truly lead to lasting change. See how many spent more time bitching about Obama than pitching in to do the work from 09 on. Jeez.
jl
I read Drumpf’s BS. What mishmash of tripe, lies and despicable smears.
Elizabelle
@ruemara: Seconded.
That said, I did not watch a moment of the SOTU, or the response, and don’t plan to. (Might catch a tad of Joe K3 later. But no Trump. Absolutely no Trump. Or any of the MSM hyenas punditing about what it all means.)
jl
@ruemara: I think Kennedy gave a good speech, and did what was asked of him. I just think that both the GOP and Democratic party establishments are wrong about what makes for a good response. Especially for a criminal like Trump, I think it needs to be a brutal demolition job, right to the point, efficient, not a wasted moment or word. Not a time to make a nice or inspiing or good impression, Need a reality therapist who doesn’t give a shit about anything other than dismantling bullshit.
Edit: and BS didn’t do it particularly well. It was far too long. But he had the better approach.
Corner Stone
@mskitty: Of course. Her actions tell us who she is. Not her garbage ass words.
Corner Stone
@FlyingToaster: She is not being fooled. That’s how she wants to play this.
LanceThruster
@jl:
Agreed, particularly regarding BS. He took Trump to task as needed.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: She’s just more Rethuglican swine who needs to be removed from power, forever.
jl
@LanceThruster: It was effective. More likely to get picked over for soundbites and invites in hope of more thunder on the news talkie shows.
Thinking in terms of whether a response is a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ speech is a mistake. Was it effective or ineffective is the only thing that matters.
The opening was particularly good, when he summed up in a few seconds what he would do :I’m going to explain a lot crap Trump didn’t mention, call out his damned lies and explain how he’s full of crap, how he’s betrayed all his campaign promises, then I’ll talk about how we’ll beat that dipshit jackass like a rug.
Maybe cranky and snarky old coots like Sanders, Biden and Dingell, or bad ass bulldogs like John Lewis should always give responses.
NobodySpecial
@LanceThruster: I’m NobodySpecial. Quit trying to steal my gig.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman:
She began with a little background about herself being an immigrant from Peru and the first Latina immigrant elected to the Virginia state house. She talked about America’s promise and its founding principles of building a society that is equal for all and giving opportunity to anyone. She then called out Trump by name for betraying these ideals and very forcefully attacked both him and his policies, which she listed off. Parts were very populist and condemned the tax bill for giving so much to the top 1% and condemned the administration for catered to the wealthy and privileged while ignoring the middle class and the underprivileged. She stated the Democrats were fighting to change this and re-establish America’s values but also made a very forceful call to action, extolling people to make their voices heard, to organize, to demonstrate and to vote. It was a pretty good speech. More forceful and direct than Kennedy’s. But I thought Kennedy’s speech was good. If someone open’s Joe’s eyes about his misguided views on marijuana legalization he will be a force to contend with.
NotoriousJRT
@debit: Thank you.
NotoriousJRT
@cain:
There is something obnoxious about him.
Ya think?
Just one more canuck
@Mnemosyne: you broke him, you bought him
FlyingToaster
@Mnemosyne: Tim Dick was born in Denver, and grew up near Detroit. Heh.
stinger
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Make that a Super Blue Blood Moon. Like, an incredible moon, Trump has the best moons, people will be talking about this moon for years to come. Believe me.
(super = the moon is close to earth and looks big) (blue = 2nd full moon in one calendar month) (blood = it looks reddish under the earth’s shadow) (You probably know all that!)
WaterGirl
@Tenar Arha: Thank you! No wonder I couldn’t find a live link anywhere and even Tivo couldn’t find the TV show that is referenced. I am looking forward to Maxine’s take on this.
WaterGirl
Reading this thread in the light of day, all the criticism of Joe III and “oh no, dynasty!” seems pretty dumb.
I though this was Balloon Juice, where we’re always saying: enough with all these old people, where’s the young blood in the democratic party? Why don’t we do anything to promote the up-and-comers, to help the rising stars?
If I gave you the thousand dollar toy you were desperate to have, you would bitch that there were no batteries in it. At which point I might just take the damn toy back and say never mind, you are too ungrateful to deserve this.
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: P.S.
Not to mention that if Joe III is interested in politics, Bobby Kennedy and JFK both gave their lives in service to their country. They were assassinated. For all you know – if he even wants to be president someday – it could be because of a burning desire to finish the work they started.
So here’s a possibly charismatic guy who has a great story – and you want to throw him under the bus. His speaking style was too slow for me, so I didn’t have the patience for it and turned off the video after about a minute, so I’m not saying I’m in the love with the guy, but geez. Get a grip.
J R in WV
@cain:
I wouldn’t let Tweety be alone in a room with my daughter (even if I had one!) if the doors were wide open. Or my wife, or my mom, or cousins. He’s def on the sociopath-psychopath scale somewhere. Something is super Not Right about him and it shows in his affect and appearance.
J R in WV
@SiubhanDuinne:
When you get to the wee folk, never forget that for every good fairy/leprechaun/elf there’s a black elf/fairy out there. I offer up as proof the Very Dark leprechaun, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, who would never fail to offer an old person out on a dark cold dank night a steaming, hot pot of poison soup. With a big toothy smile!!
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
Did he work for Senator Bernard Sanders in the last presidential campaign? If not, he’s my man. Anyone who actually worked for Sanders is of dubious intelligence and lacks the ability to discern a con artist working on them.
My problem with Beto in Texas, he was a Bernie bro. I contributed to the campaign, but I won’t be working hard for him, just can’t do it for a Bernie bro.