Victor Cha has been mentioned as ambassador to South Korea. He is the chair of the Korea program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and is director of Asian studies at Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service. He served as Asia director at the NSC under George W. Bush and participated in the Six-Party talks with North Korea as the deputy head of the U.S. delegation. But today it was announced that the administration no longer wants his services.
Cha is on the hawkish side toward North Korea. But apparently not hawkish enough for Donald Trump or someone on his staff. Cha believes that tearing up the South Korea trade agreement is a bad idea, and that attacking North Korea probably worse.
His appointment had gone as far as the administration asking South Korea for its agreement. This is a standard step in appointing ambassadors, and withdrawing the name afterwards is extremely bad form. As South Koreans woke up, they learned of the move, and they are not happy.
This story is causing shock-waves in South Korea this morning. Victor Cha is well known there and people were reassured he was being sent. Plus: South Koreans also have, er, misgivings about bloody nose/strikes on North Korea https://t.co/5uNMNomOKb
— Anna Fifield (@annafifield) January 30, 2018
The administration has handled the rest of the interaction with their usual grace and charm.
Seems to me that Victor Cha did exactly what a professional diplomat w/ deep country/regional expertise should have done in this situation – he drew on his knowledge & experience, privately raised questions and expressed disagreement w/ a flawed (catastrophic) policy direction.
— Suzanne DiMaggio (@suzannedimaggio) January 30, 2018
Cha was asked by officials whether he was prepared to help manage the evacuation of American citizens from South Korea..The two people said Mr Cha had expressed his reservations about any kind of military strike. https://t.co/oP9hRSpEZ5
— Laura Rozen (@lrozen) January 30, 2018
I’ve been engaged in a continuing Twitter discussion among national security people about whether Trump has been bluffing about a strike on North Korea. What’s coming out today suggests that he is not. A strike would be insanity, of course, because North Korea would respond to even a limited strike by destroying Seoul with its conventional artillery. It’s not clear whether they have usable nuclear weapons, but they might go for those if they have them.
A rumor is circulating that North Korea has a doomsday machine, but I think that would be in terms of planning rather than hardware. Something like “If Kim Jong Un is taken out, let it all fly.”
And with those happy thoughts, open thread!
Jerzy Russian
Jesus, Mary, & Joseph. I need to stop asking myself “Is there anything they can’t fuck up?”, since it seems the answer is always “no”. “Manage the evacuation of Americans”? Christ in a crosswalk, that is some dangerous and fucked up shit right there.
By the way, “As South Koreans work up” –> “As South Koreans woke up”
randy khan
Once again, Trump finds a way not to hire someone competent. That said, Professor Cha may want to consider how lucky he is not to be going to Seoul.
Ryan
I am so glad I’ve been drinking all day in preparation of press reaction to the SOTU. It helped to blunt the impact.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I hear he’s going to appoint Korean expert Alan Alda
p.a.
So… evacuate before military move, i.e. give NK advance warning and in effect invite a NK attack, or do these idiots think an evac during a shootout with NK’s military won’t involve mostly body bags?
Cheryl Rofer
@randy khan: I saw some commentary that any reasonably sentient candidate for ambassador would probably hold back from recommending self-immolation.
Cheryl Rofer
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Dennis Rodman seems a possibility.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Jared will fix it.
WaterGirl
Everything that comes to mind is something that is stuff I can’t say because catholic school did an excellent job of drumming “thou must not take the name of the lord in vain” into my little brain. So I will have to settle for Holy Fucking Shit, which doesn’t convey how horrifying this is.
On a slightly related note… it is news to me that we usually ask the country if our choice of ambassador works for them. Wasn’t there a story in the news recently about some appalling choice for ambassador for I-can’t-recall-which-country that was going to be outraged by our choice?
Cheryl Rofer
This is from the 1950 Korean War.
Corner Stone
@Ryan: Man, are you going to have a rough next couple of hours.
Barbara
This is supposed to be unifying? Maybe not in the way he intends?
Cheryl Rofer
@WaterGirl: Callista Gingrich for the Vatican.
dmsilev
But remember, according to Our Progressive Betters, Hillary was a war hawk who would start unnecessary conflicts just for shits and giggles.
p.a.
@WaterGirl:
All of them
KatieWaterGirlBarbara
@WaterGirl: The Vatican. Yes, notification is standard.
SFAW
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
@Cheryl Rofer:
Both wrong. He’ll appoint one of the following noted Asian experts: Sidney Toler or Warner Oland.
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: We don’t _have_ to ask the host country, but it’s a polite gesture to do so. The only gesture Trump and his crew understand is the raised middle finger, so he doesn’t bother.
NotMax
@Barbara
Helps to avoid the diplomatic dust-up of refusing to accept an ambassador’s credentials when he/she presents them to the foreign government.
WaterGirl
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: If this is snark, can you provide the backstory? If it’s not snark, do you have any spare adult beverages?
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: Yes! So did we not give them a choice to approve her?
El Caganer
Why not John Bolton? He’d love it!
?BillinGlendaleCA
If I was Japan, I’d be very worried.
Origuy
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Too liberal. I was going to suggest Wayne Rogers, who would make appearances on Fox Business Channel, but he died a couple of years ago.
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: If I were us, I’d be very worried too.
Barbara
Also, it’s a scandal that we don’t have an ambassador to South Korea yet. You can’t argue that NK is the most geopolitically sensitive country in the world and not have an ambassador to SK.
NotMax
We can just offer to pay half of the Russian ambassador’s salary if he agrees to don a second ushanka.
;)
Cheryl Rofer
@WaterGirl: I don’t know.
@El Caganer: Bolton is being mentioned as a replacement for John Kelly.
Gin & Tonic
I plan to ignore mistermix’s advice to watch something else on TV. I can’t even risk having the thing on, so I will power it off and read a book.
PaulWartenberg
disregard how our own allies will refuse to join us in even limited military strikes on North Korea – I doubt Japan would let us use our bases on their islands because they would rightly fear NK reprisal strikes – the likelihood of China joining in on North Korea’s side is a near lock. China would 1) never allow US military activity that close to their own borders, 2) use the likely war as an excuse to invade Taiwan or seize control of the South China waters where there are key oil reserves to tap, 3) use the moment to bully/dominate the rest of East Asia for the next century.
I’m a bloody amateur sitting at a computer in my home and even *I* know how f-cked up a war with North Korea would get.
Origuy
Since Open Thread, here’s Dolores O’Riordan with Luciano Pavarotti singing Ave Maria at a 1995 benefit for Bosnian children. Two great voices silenced.
Peale
@Barbara: trump has utter contempt for the Koreans on both sides of the line. This part of his racism gets lost because he hasn’t yet been able to harm them. He resents them for not being poor like he remembers them. They obviously have cheated us somehow. They are supposed to run laundries and do nails, not build ships and cars.
dr. luba
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Alda? That liberal? No, I am sure he will go with Frank Burns!
Steve in the ATL
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
NFW. Frank Burns all the way.
NotMax
@dr. luba
“Seems like a stable genius to me.”
– Dolt 45
;)
cain
So it seems some Rep from Arizona has asked Sessions and Capitol Police to arrest illegal immigrants coming to the SOTU. This is a move to deport any of the DREAMers that are coming as a guest of Democratic politicians.
It is a amazingly shitty response. I really hate this party. I want to destroy this party, and salt its remains. I want to bury in shit. Fucking assholes. See you at the polls motherfuckers.
cain
There is no way in hell I’m going to be watching to SOTU. I’ll just experience it through this blog or possibly on TalkingPointsMemo and then yell at clouds through twitter.
NotMax
@cain
Same sorry retrograde punk who called for impeaching Eric Holder (so far as one could discern, for attorney generaling while black).
trollhattan
@Cheryl Rofer:
Bolton? After one day on the job Trump would threaten to bomb the UN building.
NotMax
@NotMax
I expect he has a life-sized cutout of either Sessions or Arpaio glued to the ceiling above his bed.
Mary G
Can these people be any lazier. Required to submit lists of Russian oligarchs and people linked to Putin, the Administration copies from Forbes Magazine and the Kremlin website. Link to TPM story.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
If he has life-size Sessions up there I hope it’s a low ceiling.
eemom
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Fun fact: the character Alda played in the Woody Allen movie Crimes & Misdemeanors could SO have been a parody of Dump.
Peale
@trollhattan: nah. I wouldn’t put it past trump to try to evict the UN so he could grab the billions in real estate the complex sits on, but he does have a Trump Tower over yonder on the East Side that probably houses diplomats.
Steeplejack (phone)
@cain:
That’s Paul Gosar of Arizona. Named and shamed.
NotMax
@Mary G
“Work?!?”
Maynard G. Krebs
(Who in stark contrast was lovable, tender-hearted and an all around good egg.)
Cheryl Rofer
@trollhattan: Bolton has said he would prefer the UN building minus its top stories.
Jager
Maybe trump is thinking about giving NK a “bloody nose” during the fucking Winter Olympics. Wasn’t there going to something said about NK during the SOTU tonight?
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
No love for Mickey Rooney?
Peale
On the bright side, if he’s bombing North Korea he’s not bombing Iran, Turkey or Pakistan.
On the minus side, I do think he’s overestimating how quickly the public will rally around the troops and anoint him a war time president who can’t be voted out of office. And because he overestimates us, he will probably start something next year.
NotMax
@Peale
The U.N. headquarters is not on U.S. soil.
Also too, yeah his Turtle Bay development brings in beaucoups bucks.
chris
Ho hum, another day another Russian. In this case, dutifully reported by TASS (!), the director of Russian foreign intelligence was in the US last week. Thread:
eemom
@Gin & Tonic:
Srsly. A not irrational fear that we’re about to BECOME North Korea, with propaganda you can’t turn off blaring in every room.
cain
@NotMax:
What is his district? Perhaps, we need to target it with money. I want to show that there are consequences. Fucker.
Also on twitter, I asked Dem lawmakers to bring a live shark to the SOTU.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jager:
tobie
@chris: I saw a report on the Russian Foreign Intelligence Chief’s arrival in the US list to meet with unnamed US officials. One Dem Senator raised a question about this but I can’t remember which one. We’re all so numb from all the horrible stuff going on. Really, Trump and his goons are a wurlitzer of incompetence, grievance, pettiness, disinformation, distraction and greed. I’m beginning to think I should keep a diary of the five most important things that happen each day just so I can keep track of some of it.
cain
@Peale:
He will start many war fronts. ANd probably probably exhaust his military. He’ll also fire any general who pushes back. In the end, he’ll demand we start getting people to volunteer for his army because he is king.
Mike in DC
Not sure about a doomsday device, but pretty sure a few cobalt salted nukes near the DMZ could render large portions of SK uninhabitable for the next 5 years or so.
chris
@Cheryl Rofer: Bolton? You’m funny, Cheryl.
NotMax
@cain
Arizona district 4.
guachi
Striking North Korea would be insanity.
raven
@cain: “Probably”, do you have any idea what a fucking shooting war in that place would be like?
chris
@tobie: Further down in that thread a commenter says Naryshkin is on the US 2014 sanction list. I think that means he’s not allowed into the country? But, hey, it’s a brand new day…
celticdragonchick
@Mike in DC:
Samson option. Get every NBC device off the ground and onto a target. Sarin, VX, low yield nukes whatever.
chris
@tobie: Keep a diary? There’s a list that comes out every week.
Villago Delenda Est
@NotMax: Old Ferret Face working for Ferret Head. Makes sense.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jager: This is one very good way to piss off the entire world even more than they are already.
raven
“Past experience has taught us that complacency and concessions only invite aggression and provocation.” And future experiences?
WaterGirl
@Peale: If a president considering taking the country to war to improve his standing to get more support doesn’t fall under the category high crimes and misdemeanors, I don’t know what does.
schrodingers_cat
@Villago Delenda Est: I was checking out the standup comedy scene in India on YouTube and guess what T was a punch line along with Indian politicians in the political comedy acts.
normal liberal
You people are scaring me, what with Bolton, an eye-opening riff on NK in the SOTU, and all the rest of it. I want my mommy, so it’s a shame she died six weeks ago. (She knew that Trump was going to win before the conventions. Smart woman-fatalistic, but smart.)
Despite a professional association emailing me today about six things to watch for in The Speech, I am going to wash my hair instead of watching, listening or otherwise engaging. This seems like a perfect evening to start looking out for my mental health.
You all enjoy, now. As Tom Lehrer used to sing, we will all go together when we go – nuclear fallout, reeducation camp, whatever.
joel hanes
It seems like a very good evening to remove a bunch of retirement money from the stock market.
Villago Delenda Est
To punctuate the “bloody nose” during the Olympics thing: The ancient Greeks used to suspend ongoing wars for the Olympics. To launch an attack during the Olympics would be nearly as good as nuking someone if you’re seeking to become a planetary pariah.
Corner Stone
@joel hanes: Unless we actually bomb NK during the speech, no one will remember or give a shit what is in this speech in 24 hours.
SiubhanDuinne
@normal liberal:
I am sorry about your mother’s death. Six weeks is a short time, and I’m sure you miss her every day. I would love to be able to share the absurdity of Trump with my parents.
efgoldman
@Barbara:
If you’re the Orange Shitheel, you can argue one thing, do the opposite, then pull something contradicting both outta’ yerass.
Think Lewis Carroll, only he was a genius
Peale
@raven: Jesus. It’s always 1938 with them. They really are going to bomb during the Olympics, aren’t they?
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
I knew I was forgetting someone. Thank you, young lady.
I had considered Joey Forman as well, but thought that would be too obscure.
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
It sounds as if it’s worse than that. The appropriate people spent the time and effort compiling good lists, and then somebody at the White House removed those lists and put in the copied ones. How can Trump’s people consistently do worse than the initial terrible reports?
Gravenstone
How unlike Trump, hiring someone qualified for the position (regardless of their underlying political proclivity).Oh wait, nevermind. On to the next incompetent boob to fill a critical role.
SFAW
@Peale:
The justification for a “bloody nose” attack will be the need for Lebensraum.
ETA: Which, ironically, will be the same justification used when either NK or PRC responds by bloodying our nose.
tobie
@chris: I didn’t know about this list. Thanks. I just checked the site and noticed that this week, which began on Jan 27, is already up to 130something significant and/or troubling news items pertaining to this administration.
normal liberal
@SiubhanDuinne:
SiubhanDuinne,
Thank you. I do miss her, partly for her wicked sharp sense of humor, a gift in these times. While she was in the hospital I kept reminding her that we needed her for the midterms – she was game, but her heart had the last word. She was 94, so it wasn’t a sudden shock.
For the last year she and I had been trading “I thought they couldn’t sink lower” reactions-it’s hard to believe how much worse it’s gotten just in those few weeks.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Mike in DC: Not to mention the storage of vx nerve agent at their Disposal remember how they killed Kim Jong nam
efgoldman
We all need a smile
Today in 4.5 year olds
Driving home from school, mom takes a right turn
From the back seat comes: “You’re all clear, kid! Now let’s blow this thing and go home!”
Yes, she’s been exposed to Star Wars. She told mommy she’s Han Solo
celticdragonchick
@Mr Stagger Lee:
I spent a year up near the DMZ. In 2nd ID, our chemical warfare gear, including masks and atropine injectors, was issued to us immediately upon arrival. We had it in our barracks rooms.
raven
@celticdragonchick: barracks, you had barracks???
WaterGirl
@efgoldman: Thanks for this. Looks like all your work in the gender roles department is paying off if she is Han Solo.
Years and years ago, I was pleased when a little 7-year old pale-skinned kid with white blond hair wanted to be Will Smith when he grew up. That gave me hope that things were changing.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
There’s also John Wayne. All the brain bleach in the world cannot cleanse my memory of watching him play Genghis Khan in a movie.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
The Guardian is apparently doing its usual liveblog.
Peale
@SFAW: I wonder if the hawks in China use the same analogy. “We can not give one inch of Morth Korea. Remember Neville Chaimberlain and Czechoslovakia?”
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
Vaguely familiar name, but I couldn’t place him at all and had to look him up. Yeah, pretty obscure, so perfect as a Trump appointee to SK.
celticdragonchick
@raven:
LOL, quonset hut barracks are still barracks. Some of those were still around when I was there in 93-94.
raven
@celticdragonchick: You were at Casey?
Corner Stone
I wonder why Ivanka is wearing a country farmhouse tablecloth for a dress tonight.
celticdragonchick
@Peale: Morth Korea is what you get when Sauron sets up the tower of Barad-dur in Pyongyang.
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
Hoo?
ETA: You should probably be glad I didn’t mention Leonard Strong, either.
Why, yes, I did watch a lot of Get Smart when I was a kid. Why do you ask?
celticdragonchick
@raven:
Camp Mobil, right across the street from the front entrance.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Still laughing at this great story. She gets more wonderful all the time!
raven
@celticdragonchick: The only place in the world you can stand up to your knees in mud and have dust blowing in your face!
rachel
Shit. I can only hope Trump dropped Mr. Cha over disagreements about trade policy rather than military policy since I live right at ground zero. :(
Gravenstone
@WaterGirl: Pete Hoekstra for the Netherlands. Who beclowned himself long before he got the job. The Dutch journalists simply had the temerity to troll him mercilessly about said beclowning.
Jeffro
It’ll be unthinkable…
…until it happens.
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
Joey Forman.
raven
@celticdragonchick: Wow, a four lane highway! I think the streets in TDC were paved but nothing else up there was.
celticdragonchick
@raven: And giant freaking orb web spiders everywhere.
cain
If that fool does something in NK, even Russia will work to end him and the Republican party.
celticdragonchick
@raven:
TDC was interesting. We were not authorized to go to the big market several blocks away, but I always went because it was actually damned cool to see South Korea away from the brothels and bullshit that was right next to Casey. It was all alleys and fresh fish on ice and all kinds of stuff you would never see in America.
raven
@celticdragonchick: I saw this piece on a fish market in Seoul that had all these enormous tanks where you pick your live stuff! Munsani was off limits so we had to go all the way around Charlie Block to Yangicol but it was just a sin city.
Aleta
@normal liberal: So sorry for your loss. Take good care of yourself.
raven
Street in TDC in the early 70’s
Aleta
@efgoldman: What a girl.
J R in WV
Mr Cha is way overqualified for the top spot in Korea. Someone like, hmmmm, Dennis Rodman, right! Right??!! RIGHT?!??
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: @normal liberal: My mom, a convert to the Democratic Party at the age of 85, died in 2010, but after being careful with language while my minister father was around, became quite a potty mouth. Each new story that comes out makes me hear her rattling the pages of the LA Times and dropping f bombs.
celticdragonchick
@raven:
TDC looked like something from the first Blade Runner movie when I was there. Neon signs, technology and trash all in one.
Ruckus
In other words, not one bit of either.
celticdragonchick
Going to hang out at LGF for the SOTU debacle…see you all later
stinger
@normal liberal: So very sorry for your loss. I lost mine 10 months ago. It gets easier, but I still miss her every day.
Ruckus
@Origuy:
We might get to this level soon, no one with an ounce of self respect will work there now. How soon will we run out of rich people with less sense than a used up sponge?
efgoldman
@Amir Khalid:
Take a look/listen to Tony Curtis in the early 60s Spartacus and Taras Bulba
It’ll replace John Wayne, but then you’ll need more brain bleach
Bonnie
Do you think the liar-in-chief has any knowledge that the 2018 Winter Olympics start February 8, in South Korea????? The number of Americans will increase tenfold including all our young athletes and those of many other countries. Does he know this???? Probably not. He is an international embarrassment.
Captain C
Serious question: what happens if both South Korea and Japan announce that they will not allow their land, territorial waters, or airspace to be used in any ‘bloody nose’ or other first strike on North Korea?