Trump has thoughts on the resignation of two aides over the past 48 hours due to domestic violence allegations, and I have thoughts on his thoughts:
Shut ALL the way up. pic.twitter.com/uO91pSs4BX
— Betty Cracker (@bettycrackerfl) February 10, 2018
In case it’s not clear, the photo is of a full-page ad Trump took out in New York newspapers to try to organize a lynch mob against five teenagers falsely accused of raping and assaulting a jogger in Central Park. Via The Week:
When a Central Park jogger was brutally raped and beaten nearly to death in 1989, Donald Trump was at the front of the pack calling for literal blood. Four black teenagers and one Latino teenager were charged and jailed on shaky evidence after confessing to the crime under intense questioning, and two weeks after the attack, Trump took out a full-page ad in four city newspapers advocating for the reinstatement of the death penalty.
But the so-called Central Park Five were vindicated in 2002, when their convictions were vacated after a convicted murderer and rapist confessed to the crime — a confession that was corroborated by DNA evidence. (DNA was never found connecting the Central Park Five to the crime.) The Central Park Five were eventually awarded a $41 million settlement from New York City in 2014.
But over the decades, even as it became increasingly clear that the Central Park Five were innocent, Trump has continued to call for their deaths, and even criticized the city for its multi-million dollar settlement — all without any actual evidence that the Central Park Five were involved in the rape.
As The Week story points out, Trump was still ranting about the case a couple of years ago. The evidence that Trump doesn’t believe in due process extends far beyond his shameful attacks on the Central Park Five. It includes the absurd “birther” crusade, the chants of “Lock Her Up” and the plea to Comey to “let Flynn go.”
I don’t think Trump wrote the tweet above. It only contains one randomly capitalized noun and no explicit references to himself, which is a tell. But it probably represents his “thoughts” on the deference owed to himself and those like him.
In the context of his past hypocritical statements and actions, it boils down to this: Trump believes that white men named Donald J. Trump, white men who pledge fealty to Donald J. Trump and white men who are in some way useful to Donald J. Trump are above the law. That turns the very concepts of “due” and “process” upside down, so yeah, STFU.
Open thread, I guess…
And yet how many millions voted for this man?
@schrodingers_cat: 63 million or so. And yet we have to share our country, our states, our neighborhoods with these cretins.
Morally and ethically bankrupt.
As if we didn’t already know that.
Given Trump’s treatment of HRC and his direction to various agencies to go after her, it’s been evident from that alone that he gives less than two shits about Due Process.
In my blue district of my blue city in my blue state, just around the corner a neighbor’s Mercedes sports a “Christians for President Trump” bumper sticker. Why they feel the need to bravely announce their votes post-election remains a mystery, but let me add the bravery level is not what’s required to slap “Proud I voted for her” on your Prius in Oklahoma.
We always say there’s an old Trump tweet or video for every situation. Maybe there wasn’t one for when the Mueller investigation comes to an end and Trump is subjected to due process himself? In which case, perhaps this was just the universe righting itself in preparation for that day.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
Fuck these people.
@trollhattan: I still have all my Obama magnets on my car, and I have no intention of taking them off.
“Christians.” Yeah, right. Pull the other one.
Akin to having a Vegetarians For Vivisection bumper sticker.
Well, let’s see….
Do you know that some folks know about it, some don’t
Some will learn to shout it, some won’t
But sooner or later baby, here’s a ditty
Say you’re gonna have to get right down to the real nitty gritty
Now let’s get right on down to the nitty gritty
It’s gonna be getting real for Trump and his goons, real soon.
And here’s my absolute favorite dance to this song.
Al Franken, calling on line one.
Has anyone ever organized or participated in a candidate’s forum? I’m part of a group that is trying to organize one prior to the Baltimore state attorney prelims in June. Our topic is criminal justice and we’re looking at groups we can partner with for organization and publicity.
Any insights from the board would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance!
It’s a fact that Trump is a liar and a bigot. But the one thing that I keep coming back to is the Central Park Five Affair. I’d love to see Trump actually asked and actually put on the spot about that by reporters from the Media Conglomerate. But I’m not holding my breath in anticipation.
@NotMax: As someone who is from a religio/ethnic group easily targeted and murdered by Christians over the eons, yes, I’d say the fuckers in this WH and his mob are acting in accordance with historical Christian actions of violence, intolerance, and ignorance. (No smart quotes required.)
Villago Delenda Est
LOCK HER UP!
Due process is only for straight white affluent connected males.
Villago Delenda Est
@MattF: The vermin of the Village have yet to find their balls for that.
The only 3 words necessary to prove D Trump is a piece of human filth: Central Park Five.
@MattF: I want John Kelly to be asked about why he smeared Frederica Wilson, but there is always something new and more repulsive with him.
Betty, I agree that Trump almost certainly didn’t type that tweet, which almost makes it worse. That means that someone besides the crazy orange pretend president thought that tweet was a good idea.
It will be interesting to see the changes in Trump that we will see without Porter in place.
Put on the spot how? Trump is the freaking lying bigot president and would filter this shit through his press secretary.
Or he would simply lie and deny and write a Twitter message in which he further lied and denied.
How do you square grabbing innocent women by the p>ssy with a devotion to “Due Process”?
When was the last time Trump had a press conference? I mean, a FOR-REAL press conference, where FOR-REAL journalists (don’t start; different subject) ask anything they feel like asking.
Put that on the T-ball post for anyone to swing at, why don’t you?
He feels it’s his due, and that’s all the process he thinks he needs.
mai naem mobile
I saw very few if any Trump bumper stickers around Thanksgiving and Christmas and started seeing a few now. Don’t know if it’s because of the holidays or what but jeezus but I want to drive up to them and flip them off but that is 1/ very childish anf 2/Not smart in a gun crazy state .
@Suzanne: You have a suggestion for me regarding my idiot neighbors who voted for Trump and still seem to think he’s doing great things?
I have thoughts about your thoughts, Betty. I agree with them! However, I have to say it wasn’t just Trump condemning the Central Park Five. There were plenty of liberals saying pretty much the same thing, like Mayor Ed Koch calling them monsters.
I’ve got your due process right here you moron.
Villago Delenda Est
@smintheus: It’s like how you square outright treason with having access to this country’s (and our allies’) most closely guarded secrets. Donald fucked over the Mossad, for example.
Help me out. There was an order of protection. The time for the wife beater to assert due process was before the judge overseeing the entry of that order.
Shut the fuck up, Donnie. You’re out of your element.
There is no bigger liberal than a conservative who has been arrested.
Nixon was a cancer on the Presidency. Trump is a cancer on the human race.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Five gallon can of gas. A box of matches.
@debbie: ed koch wasnt a liberal.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Ah, but the judge “took the word of that lying bitch over mine, I swear…”
I hear it all the time.
Villago Delenda Est
@Chip Daniels: Ask Ed Meese, who once said if you’re indicted, you’re guilty. Until he was indicted.
@sixthdoctor: If you’re a member of your county-level party organization, you might ask the leadership of that group about it. Since it’s a statewide office, maybe it’s the state party org that should host it, but your county-level folks could advise you. My county-level party occasionally provides a forum for statewide candidates. Also, maybe your state bar association?
@BluegirlFromWyo: This needs to be said every time Trump says anything.
@debbie: Most of the others weren’t calling for the death penalty though, were they?
And how many millions will vote for him in 2020. Too many.
@sixthdoctor: If no one has already suggested it, the League of Women Voters.
ETA: Candidate forums (fora?) are kind of their thing. Even if you choose not to co-sponsor with them, they’ll have really useful advice on what to do.
Wait a minute. The Orange Fart Cloud is president. He runs the White House. If he wants the two (likely more) abusers to stay on his staff, then they get to stay. Why is the tough guy president bowing to pressure? Why isn’t he telling them to stick it out through due process? Why is he participating in the destruction of their careers? It’s almost like someone else is calling the shots.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: One family is Jewish but you couldn’t know that because I didn’t share it.
Honestly, we are stuck sharing our world with Trump supporters.
Due Process is trending on twitter (77k tweets as of this writing)
it hit a nerve
@Villago Delenda Est: I think it was worse than that. I think what Meese actually said was “they wouldn’t be suspects if they weren’t guilty” because it struck me to hear an American lawyer say that.
Funny this morning I was seeing a way to happiness as a citizen–IF are nation survivies this shitstain, it will be in the rearview someday, etc. But it’s always something. You all are cathartic in the thousands of ways to describe what we are living in–some of my favorites are comparing this to a plaque over our land; that he is a stain on the human race (in this thread), and how this man has not a single redeeming quality of any kind.
The nitwit has no idea what due process is. First of all, he is talking about were people in his own damn White House, and he could have kept them on if he wanted to. Second of all, no one has been denied due process. No one has been convicted without a trial. Losing your job has nothing to do with due process.
That tweet is at a fifth grade reading level so yeah, he didn’t write it. Third grade is more his style.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@ArchTeryx: Not only do we have to share the US with them, for millions of that bunch he’s aspirational. They want to be able to succeed while being a nasty, racist, misogynistic bully and cheat. Some of those voters are just fools, but the frightening part is how many want to be like him and get away without the social costs of that behavior.
I think you’re missing the point here. There were plenty of liberals who condemned the Central Park Five when the crime happened and the kids were accused of the crime. There was plenty of hysteria to go around. The difference is that those liberals accepted it when they were exonerated by DNA evidence, and many of them were even contrite over having gone crazy over the crime. Trump didn’t. The ad Betty is highlighting came from when they were being released. Trump wanted them executed even after the courts had exonerated them.
@Betty Cracker: @Miss Bianca: Thank you both! For context, my group is within my local church so this was something we decided to do as part of civic engagement and trying to get enthusiasm up for 2018 elections. And being in Baltimore (im new to the area but the rest are longtine residents), criminal justice is very much on our minds…
@Villago Delenda Est:
From Wiki Quote:
Classic Republican “think”
This pro-wifebeating interview of Trump’s needs to be highlighted more:
@sixthdoctor: Kudos to you for working on a voter engagement initiative! I second Miss Bianca’s rec of the League of Women Voters — they’re a terrific organization.
@bobbo: Don’t these people loudly believe in employment at will?
When this stuff gets to be too much, there are three little words:
@Captain C: Of course they believe in employment at will. They have the will to employ, these guys just didn’t have the will to stay employed. A failure of the will so to speak.
@sixthdoctor: Heck, maybe you should reach out to David Simon and see if he would moderate it for you! ; )
Highlighting that would, I suspect, only encourage the Trump followers who aspire to be that kind of husband. Still worth doing, of course, because everyone else would be appalled.
Koch was only sort of a liberal by that point. But the big difference between Trump and most of the others (I believe Koch was dead when this happened) is that he’s the only one who kept insisting they were guilty when they were exonerated. The rest were at least smart enough to keep their mouths shut.
A few weeks ago I realized I was being inconsistent on this issue. I think what happened to the Central Park Five was a travesty and a miscarriage of justice, but I also don’t think it’d be much of a problem if the Duke lacrosse team had gone to prison.
I’ve been keeping quiet on it ever since. Sadly too many people seem to lack this level of introspection.
About Hope Hicks, I remembered something last night that left my mind. Not long ago (1-2 weeks?) her headlines were “Did HH obstruct justice?” (For reportedly saying DJTjr emails about TT meeting can be kept out of view.)
Some of her headlines the last 10 days:
She’s dating Porter. Photos! She wrote Kelly’s statement about Porter. If she did, it was unauthorized! Trump mad at her. Trump not at all mad at her. Porter’s ex-wife and gf worried for her.
Now back to Trump and a memo.
Campaign Zero might have some resources for your forum.
Heck, I’d like to see them ask him something about the details of the Nunes memo, because the one time he talked about it to the press it was painfully obvious that he hadn’t read it or even had it described to him, or if it was described he didn’t understand it. “It was terrible what they were doing, just terrible. And the other things. It shouldn’t be allowed.” Sounded for all the world like a kid called on in class when he hadn’t done the assigned reading.
You don’t think that drumpf is actually in charge do you?
He’s not capable of being in charge of his own life, how could he possibly be in charge of the government? He has to be protected from too much information or any information that goes past 1 page of nothing. He’s being protected because he’s an bigoted idiot and because if he wasn’t this mess would be a lot worse. The trouble is that he is being protected by people that are as bad as him, without the extreme level of stupidity and dementia, who were not elected nor have the actual responsibility or abilities either.
This is not a presidency as much as a coup by a radical group of bigoted idiots.
I often just ask for details. Lots of details. If there aren’t enough details, ask for more. If the details are just thought-free wingnut placeholder words/phrases (e.g. “crooked hillary”), ask them to explain them. Make them work for their ill-informed opinions.
And yes, it’s possible to learn something this way. Usually about nuances of loopy right wing arguments or conspiracy theories or the like, but not always; occasionally the liberal lines are propaganda too.
Imagine you are a staffer learning to write Trump tweets. Ok, it has to show intolerance and also sound stupid enough that it came from the president*. I know, I’ll blame the victim while I mix in some childhood Dr. Suess rhythms and use small words. That should do it.
@opiejeanne: A trump supporter asked what I thought, and I said he’s a racist pig. The subject was never approached again.
@Bill Arnold: I know of them, I know who they are, I have a nodding aquaintance as they walk their dogs past my garden. I do not discuss anything with them, especially politics. I was so stunned by the two Jewish families supporting him that I don’t know what to think of them. Their excuse is something about Israel, according to my other Jewish neighbor who does argue with them about politics. I can hardly stand to look at any of them.
The guy next door who is not Jewish and owns nothing, rents a room from his retired employer, the truck he drives belongs to her, and he rants about his taxes and how overpaid the garbage truck drivers are (They aren’t).
I tried briefly with him using that tactic but he moves the goalposts, changes the subject to Obama or Hillary, and then just rants about welfare recipients. We rarely talk now. The hell of it is that he would do just about anything for us. I can’t reconcile this gap in decency/perception.
@B.B.A.: I didn’t follow the Duke lacrosse team thing all that closely, but didn’t they get exonerated? If so, hell yeah, it would have been a problem if they’d gone to prison. I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise, unless I’m missing something and there’s still good reason to doubt their innocence. I don’t understand your comment.
@JPL: I said that to one, a couple of years ago. Oh, the spluttering and gasping!
ETA: Probably more like sexist, racist pig.
@Ruckus: See the last line of my comment. In retrospect, I could have been more clear in my snark.
@Betty Cracker: It’s less about the details of the case, and more about every single #MeToo incident being met with dudebros whining “WHAT ABOUT DUKE LACROSSE? DUE PROCESS!”
It got to the point where I just wanted to throw dudebros in prison for being dudebros. Fuckem.
Sympathies, yeah. (I know the Jewish “conservative” lines of talking points well.) These are people who are thoroughly under the influence of a hostile propaganda apparatus. Their willingness to believe things on faith has been hacked, by liars. Getting them to form their own opinions is the first step IMO, along with getting them (gently, without being obvious) to recognize they just might be being manipulated by Fox News, Breitbart or whatever. Anyway, can’t say it’s easy. And the left is not immune, but the problem is mostly on the (American) right ATM. One thing that is helping is that the mainstream press is rapidly losing its credulity and becoming more aware of obvious political manipulation. (Nunes Memo Mania notwithstanding.) It helps that the Republicans are so overtly transparent about it.
They were exonerated. There should not be an issue here. Nor even a dudebro pushback.
The lesson that should have been learned here is about the importance of justice.
The irony of the Duke case is that it proves how people who cannot afford good representation get thrown under the jail. The other lesson is that career prosecutors can be evil, and in this case, the idiot thought that he could apply the same crappy pressure that he put on poor and black people and get a middle class kid to roll over and confess to a crime that he did not commit.
And you can easily apply this to women who are not believed or who have prosecutors play fast and loose with their cases.
Some, maybe most dudebros are too stupid to see the point of all this.
@Bill Arnold: My sense is that the neighbors all just tune out the news. The old fart next door watches Fox News but I don’t know that the rest watch any news at all. Their lives are fine, they’re doing fine, they don’t know (or want to know) anyone who is being hurt by this administration.
They’re just singing LaLaLa with their fingers in their ears.
Because I am way behind on threads, but way ahead on time…. WHAT?
Anyway I just posted on the John Cole pancreatitis thread that I suggest BJ have a regular diet/dietary post. Just once a week, prolly best on the weekend. As a life long yo yoer who has sort of gotten it in hand (emphasis on the “sort of”) I am always fascinated and intrigued by everyone’s experiences. I learn so much from you all.
Villago Delenda Est
This should go without saying, but it needs to be stated every so often.
Villago Delenda Est
Sort of like how “Good Germans” didn’t really concern themselves too much with what was happening with the Jews next door.
New movie: The Young Karl Marx
BC in Illinois
Yeah. The only thing that I can come up with is that people who behave decently to everyone around them, have a mindset — a mind-that-is-set — that draws a line, so that everyone one the other side of that (often imaginary) line will never deserve to be treated decently, or even considered for decent behavior. If they are even considered at all.
It’s not just the obvious racial/religious/economic lines. There was an article recently pointing out that people who are really concerned about the state of our democracy here, are not always concerned about whether others, across the world, have democracy and freedom.
I think some of this is unavoidable. I am not often alert to the plight of oppressed-people-not-in-today’s-news. Hell, I am concerned about the people in Puerto Rico, and have made contributions to their relief, but they are not often in my thoughts. But I recognize this as a flaw, a weakness in myself. I do not always treat others with the intense concern that I would like for them to have for me, if I were in that situation.
But in order to have this discussion, everyone in the discussion has to agree (on some level) that everyone in the world is included. That no one is outside of our circle of mutual care and responsibility. Which takes some work in changing mindsets. Otherwise you get the people who would drive you to the hospital in a moment, being willing in the next moment to take hospital care away from “other people.” People at a distance. People who are outside the line.
I think I’d rather see The Young Marx Brothers.
Mike in NC
Right now some clever humorist is writing a book that will be called, “Stupid Shit Trump Tweeted”. It will be so close to the real thing nobody will be able to tell the difference.
Steve in the ATL
Are you suggesting a team of B-J vigilantes that doles out street justice to lowlifes? I’m in!
@Brachiator: Minnie’s Boys was a successful play but never made it to film.
@Steve in the ATL:
Ben Affleck has a costume he won’t be needing.
Mike in NC
Should have been directed by Mel Brooks
The 2nd aide who resigned (yet another sadistic and uncontrollably angry Republican with a compulsion to injure women) came to DC from Maine, where he was a policy advisor for le Page. (Another racist, sadistic and uncontrollably angry Republican with a compulsion to hurt people.) Sadism is a common element among Trump and his people.
The aide, Sorenson, is close with le Page’s family and Maine law enforcement and its RW Republican swamp. His former wife is also a long time Repub operative and worked for Rubio and Poliquin.
Besides telling her story to the Wa Post, she’s written about Sorenson’s abusiveness at Medium.
Last night I also read what Rebecca Schoenkopf at Wonkette wrote recently about the horrible abuser in her past.
So many women now writing about this area of misogyny–abusive partners and how hard it is to escape them and recover. Comments on twitter. New pieces being written because of the women who spoke out about Porter. So many personal responses to Schoenkopf at Wonkette.
@Mike in NC:
Springtime for Das Kapital.
I vaguely remember seeing Groucho being interviewed by, maybe Dick Cavett about the play.
Everyone here will scream at me about this and.. I will NEVER EVER defend Donald Trump. Certainly not over this. But you all need to understand the hell hole NY was at that time. There were almost 3000 murders that year. For perspective there was less than 400 last year. It was a fucking war zone. Literally. And by the way I lived there. I watched those boys’ confessions. They are so clear in my mind I actually remembered the Assistant District Attorneys name today, 30 years later. Elizabeth Lederer. I also watched the “confessions”. Lederer did not lead them at all. One of them said ” This was my first rape.”
So….I am glad that they were exonerated, but watch the confessions and live in a fucking war zone before you judge.
@Mike in NC: He’s still alive you know. He hasn’t worked much (he’s 91 and a rich old codger) lately but it could theoretically happen.
He didn’t like Shelley Winters cast as his mother, if I recall correctly.
We have seen war zones. Syria. Iraq. New York was not a fucking war zone.
None of them were guilty. You know. Kinda like how some Irish men and women spontaneously and voluntarily confessed to British authorities about crimes that they did not commit.
Back when Belfast was a hell hole. Or Further back, Dublin.
Trump could have taken back what he said. He never has. That makes it worse.
Really, Traitor Donnie? Are some borrowed and some blue?
What a fucking idiot.
So, last night, I was wondering, “What is with this fucking guy? Why can’t I laugh at him, or make any kind of even half-way decent joke about him, even though he’s utterly ridiculous?”
It’s something I’ve wondered about a lot over the past year and a quarter, if I’m being honest. And last night, I think I finally figured it out: Trump is literally beneath contempt, Trump is beneath mockery. Traitor Donnie is simply too disgusting to laugh at, in the same way that no one laughs when they step barefoot into a pile of shit (bull, cow, dog, take your pick) – or makes jokes about a puddle of vomit in the middle of the living room floor.
It’s like America has been dropped into a giant vat of boil pus, black mold, pond slime, and dental plaque (the halitotic foul-smelling kind of plaque that grows in the gumlines and gaps between the back teeth), and we’re not – or at least I’m not – going to be able to laugh at it all until we’re out of it, and disposed of it, and showered, and wash the stink away repeatedly. It’s just too gross, pathetic, and depressing to even derive any kind of black joy from it, any kind of morbid schadenfreude, until it’s over.
Central Park Five Case. Let’s refresh our memories. From Wikipedia.
@Brachiator: And Trump was demanding their execution.
A Guardian report on Kelly:
Someone tell Steele about Kelly’s testimonial that sexual assailant and child-molesting pastor Marine Col. Todd Shane Tomko was a great guy.
@germy: What’s odd is the newspaper ad never literally calls for them to be executed – which even if they were guilty would be doubly unconstitutional, since New York didn’t have a death penalty at the time and the crimes they were accused of were not murder (though it was a few years before Kennedy v Louisiana).
I don’t know if this is Trump’s naturally disconnected rambling acting in his favor, or his lawyers carefully editing his words, but it did stick out to me on a close reading of the ad.
@HeleninEire: @HeleninEire: no offense but no American city is ever “a war zone.” Even at its worst, you could live in Chicago or New York — hell, you can liv in Detroit and never encounter crime except in the nightly news.
Another point, I really don’t care what they said. There was physical evidence that exonerated them. That should have been the end of that.
Duke Lacrosse Case. Another memory refresh.
@Mike in NC: I still have the Dan Quayle Quiz Book – multiple choice questions about things Dan Quayle said – where 4 of the ridiculous answers are fake and one ridiculous answer is real.
It was great for road trips, and it was amazing how stupid and awful he was, but it was funny, too.
@Brachiator: NY was not a war zone? I was told not to go out after 8pm. I was told to not ride on the back car of the subway. I was told not to wear jewelry on the subway. Put it on at work. A NYC detective, a woman, came to my dorm and said the following. “If you want to carry a knife or scissors don’t threaten your attacker with it, he will take it away from you. Stab him. In the heart if you can.” She also said “I’m not allowed to tell you not to get a gun. Guns are mostly illegal in NY. But you should get a gun. And shoot him. The NYC police dept have real shit to deal with. You will be out in an hour”
Also, too. Do not use Belfast against me. My mother lived that. You bore me with that shit.
@HeleninEire: The key point here is that given the publicly available evidence at the time, it was fine to think the CP5 were the perpetrators and think they merited the death penalty.
But given that they were exonerated by DNA evidence (and subsequent revelations of beatings and threats to the teenage suspects), continued exhortations to execute the CP5 were abominable. Very few public figures did so, and Trump not only did so, but took out a full page ad in the paper to demand their deaths. And then to give the police even more power, so they could continue to threaten and assault young suspects. It’s hard to get lower than that.
ETA: Again, I don’t think anyone would begrudge you thinking NY was full of crime and the 5 boys were guilty. Most people did at the time. It’s the behavior after they’re been revealed to have been innocent that’s abhorrent, and since you didn’t do anything there you’re blameless in that respect. Sorry you had to go through the whole experience.
The Means of Producers
Men in Top Hats
The Economic Determinism of the World
@WaterGirl: Too late to edit to add the Quayle was not dangerous and sadistic and a sociopath like the pretend president is, he was just stupid, so the comparison only goes so far.
@Emma: @MisterForkbeard: Yes. I agree with you on theory. But you need to have lived this. I hate his sorry ass. And as NY’er I’ve known him for 40 years. ASSHOLE. But we are not talking theory here. Also Emma, don’t worry about the no offense thing. We can agree to disagree.
And if you follow immigration, you will find that there are stories of Trump’s beloved ICE ignoring due process on a fairly regular basis.
Like this: https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/federal-court-finds-ice-and-los-angeles-sheriff-collaborated-unlawfully-detain
Then you should know better.
I lived in New York. Rode subways late at night. Family and friends in New York. Girlfriend’s mother was a little old lady who was careful, but never had problems. And has lived in the city for decades.
But put all that aside. It is a distraction. What does your apprehension and fear, no matter how understandable, have to do with the false convictions of the Central Park case? What?
@Brachiator: TBF, there is probably a huge difference in the threat profile towards you and Helen, who would have been a young single college-age woman at the time.
I think all Helen is saying (in any case) is that it was very easy and perhaps justifiable to be aghast and horrified at the CP5 at the time, and to have been utterly convinced they were guilty. She’s not saying Trump behaved well after their innocence was revealed.
@HeleninEire: my family arrived in Chicago in 1970. We were resettled through the good offices of Accion Catolica, who were so strapped for cash that the only hotel they could afford was one in one of the worst areas of the South side. Three days after we arrived, two prostitutes were shot in the parking lot. We slept in the mattress under the bed and used the common bathroom only when my father returned from the job he had been lucky enough to find and he carried a baseball bat. Three weeks later a friend from our home town put us in contact with another friend who knew where there was an apartment tor rent and was willing to vouch for us to the landlord.
We moved into a nice oldef middle class area
Are you male? If yes then I dismiss your first two paragraphs.
Re paragraph 3. I am saying that regardless of the truth, NYC was scary. And if you look at what I said, I was clear that I am glad that they were exonerated. And I hate to be a bitch – BWA HA HA I LOVE BEING A BITCH, but all those $$$$ they got, and rightfully so, came from my pocket. And I’m OK with that.
Oops. Kindle not letting me edit.
So we moved into a nice older middle class area –Ravenswood tor the locals — and never encountered crime again for the ten years we lived there. Lots of it in the news, though.
@Emma: Bless you. So glad you are integrated here. That’s one of those incredible American immigrant stories.
First, note that I said that your fears were understandable. Even put it in bold. Because I wanted there to be no doubt that I understood and respected your position.
NYC was scary. Yeah, It was especially scary for blacks and Latinos. Including black and Latino women. But the fear was often caused by the police. You know. The ones who were advising you to shoot people.
It came from the pockets of a lot of hard working people. Can you give those who were falsely convicted their years back? Can you resurrect those innocents who were killed by the cops?
You said it, not me.
@Brachiator: SMACK. MANY KISSES!
ETA Also the cops were telling me to shoot men. I’m in since they are the mass murderers.
TBF, in the few times that a gun has been pointed at me, almost all of them were by police officers. There are threat profiles, and there are threat profiles.
But some of the CP5s claims of innocence and coerced confessions came out early, and despite this, it was too easy for a lot of white folks to be convinced that they were guilty. Meanwhile, few blacks or Latinos got that sweet little white girl hand holding treatment that Helen got.
Some of her fear may have been reasonable, but a great deal of it was manipulated, and you can perhaps see this in her quotation about one of the arrested youths supposedly bragging about his “first rape.” That she would still viscerally hold onto this despite what we now know about the case is extremely unfortunate.
@MisterForkbeard: Thank you
I got no problem with you shooting any man who is a clear threat to you.
I worked and owned a business about half way between Watts and East LA. Crappy industrial area. Everything shut down at 5pm. The LAPD would drive around 6 very large and muscular men in unmarked cars and hassle anyone not white walking down the street. It was not a war zone. It was a shithole. Yes there were a lot of murders, but most of them were gang shootings. And yes an indecent percentage were innocents shot in their own neighborhoods. But outside of the gang areas we didn’t have a lot of shootings, nor a lot of murders. Some for sure, some people are always assholes. There was a story a day or two ago in the local paper that a homeless man killed his wife, stuffed her in a suitcase, boarded a train, carted her across town and set the body and suitcase on fire.
Was I ever scared? Not really, but I was cautious.
@Brachiator: OK. I do not know your race. And this comment made me stop. “that sweet little white girl hand holding treatment that Helen got” made me say what?? Please explain. Honestly, I need to know where I fucked up.
Actually, let me back up a bit. I know lots of women of color who attended school in New York in the 70s through 90s, but I don’t know many who received the kind of solicitous treatment and advice that you received. But I don’t know your circumstances or the other people you associated with at the time or the full context in which the conversations you describe were given. So I could have been making inaccurate assumptions or just being unintentionally provocative.
J R in WV
You know that the DA who tried to prosecute the Duke LAX team was eventually disbarred, don’t you? Because they didn’t rape that young women, according to the evidence. The case against their guilt was strong enough to get the hapless DA thrown out of the Bar in North Carolina, so pretty airtight.
So I’m disagreeing with you on that thought, that it would have been OK for those young Duke men to go to prison, because they were as innocent as the Central Park kids were, who spent – what? 14 years in jail? Something like that… for something they didn’t do at all.