Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

The words do not have to be perfect.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

How stupid are these people?

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Russiagate Open Thread: The Wages of (Fiscal) Sin

Russiagate Open Thread: The Wages of (Fiscal) Sin

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Miguel de Cervantes was supposed to have conceived the great novel Don Quixote while *he* was in jail. Machiavelli wrote The Prince while in political exile. So, there’s precedent… (/snark)

Paul Waldman, at the Washington Post, “Trump’s lawyer just made the Stormy Daniels affair much more interesting”:

… To catch you up: Back in January, the Wall Street Journal reported that Michael Cohen, Donald Trump’s personal lawyer and all-around fixer, had set up a shell company in Delaware in the fall of 2016 for the sole purpose of passing a $130,000 payment to Daniels (whose real name is Stephanie Clifford). Soon after, In Touch magazine published an interview with Daniels in which she detailed how she and Trump had an on-again, off-again affair in 2006 that began in Lake Tahoe just after the birth of his son Barron, when his wife Melania was back home in New York.

The liberal good-government group Common Cause filed complaints with the Federal Election Commission and the Justice Department, alleging that the payment was an illegal in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign intended to quash a potentially embarrassing story and thereby help Trump get elected. Yesterday, Cohen issued a statement implying that the $130,000 was his own money…

What’s odd about this is that he doesn’t say he paid her $130,000 with his own personal funds, he says he used his own personal funds to facilitate a payment. Which could well mean that he used his personal funds to pay whatever fees were necessary to establish the Delaware shell company, but the money came from somewhere else. Like, I don’t know, from Donald Trump. For instance.

Furthermore, if we assume the second sentence is true and neither the Trump Organization nor the campaign was involved, what it leaves out is the involvement of Trump himself. Did Cohen discuss the payment with the person on whose behalf he was making it? Did Trump approve the amount? If Cohen put up the whole $130,000, did Trump personally (as opposed to the Trump organization or campaign) reimburse him?…

I would bet a store-bought cookie that the answer to that would be Like Trump ever “personally” repaid anyone except under threat. But if not Donald himself, then where would the money have come from?…


Duelling narratives:

Reader Interactions

206Comments

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    @(((CassandraLeo))): Don’t you think that’s the logical counter for Mueller at this point? If he ponied up $130K then where did it come from? How or what did he declare about that amount? if it was a gift did he pay appropriate taxes? If it was a business expense how was it handled?
    I am not a tax guy thingie but methinks Mikey has a bit of a bigger problem today than he did yesterday.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    So Twitter changed their links so they now have an extension that requires you to sign up to view the tweet (or manually delete the extension).

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: They’ve been trying that off and on with me on mobile devices recently. I normally just go through the Goog and if they keep blocking me I go do something else on the interwebs.

  13. 13.

    Thoughtful David

    So, I hear that Jarvanka’s personal debt has increased dramatically in the last year. I wonder how they’re planning to pay it back? In their super-sweet setup now, they’re still getting into greater debt? Really?
    I don’t think they should worry about the law catching up with them, but if I were them I would run a polonium detector over every cup of tea I was offered.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    @NotMax: There’s probably a clause buried deep inside the GOP tax bill exempting disclosure of income received by porn stars as hush money originating from NYC conmen with bad hair.

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    What’s odd about this is that he doesn’t say he paid her $130,000 with his own personal funds, he says he used his own personal funds to facilitate a payment. Which could well mean that he used his personal funds to pay whatever fees were necessary to establish the Delaware shell company, but the money came from somewhere else. Like, I don’t know, from Donald Trump. For instance.

    I notice that he mentions the Trump Campaign and the Trump Organization, but never mentions the Trump Foundation. I don’t believe for a moment that Donald Trump paid this with his own personal money; he never pays anyone a penny he doesn’t have to. But he has been known to use the Trump Foundation to pay for stuff that he didn’t want to pay with his own money, even stuff that a supposedly charitable foundation had no business paying for. Anyone want to take a bet that the $130,000 came from the Trump Foundation one way or another?

  17. 17.

    scottinnj

    Serious question if the campaign paid I can see the election law violation. But if it was out of Donald J Trump’s personal banking account, it may be crass/unseemly etc but is it illegal? Where Trump get the money is a different question.

  19. 19.

    Amaranthine RBG

    It’s almost as if something might actually happen to push Trump out.

    I do not want to jinx this.

  20. 20.

    lamh36

    UGHHHHH…

    WHAT DA FUQ…did I just see an anti-abortion ad on Hallmark Channel talking bout abortions killed more Black Americans, than Heart Disease, Cancel, Diabetes and Gun Violence combined…

    Is this the game abortion advocates are playing now? Really…really…

    FUQ’N REALLY!!!

  21. 21.

    randy khan

    This is a very peculiar story, but mostly because it seems likely to cause more trouble for Cohen, not less. On the other hand, there’s not a lot of evidence that he’s very bright.

  22. 22.

    Wapiti

    @scottinnj: I think under campaign finance rules it might be treated as a donation to the campaign, since it was paid to assist Dotard becoming President.* So did the campaign declare it as a donation? Was it even from an American citizen?

    * As I understand it, that was the reasoning on the hush money John Edwards’ mistress got paid.

  23. 23.

    Miss Bianca

    @lamh36: Is this the same Hallmark Channel that produces those relentlessly heartwarming Christmas movies? Color me surprised, but not shocked.

  24. 24.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    @NotMax: She’s supposed to be good at the business end of things, so I wouldn’t be surprised if she either did pay or her taxes or is scrambling to get that taken care of now.

  25. 25.

    lamh36

    Sandy Hook mom to Marco Rubio and his #thoughtsandprayers

    @Nelba_MG
    Follow Follow @Nelba_MG
    More Nelba Márquez-Greene Retweeted
    Oh, please. U had a chance after Newtown & you did squat because “you were already doing immigration” and didn’t want to lose votes w/ your constituents. In your office you looked at us and said you couldn’t act. Sleep tight with that blood on your hands, Marco. #resist

  27. 27.

    Major Major Major Major

    Open thread?

    Had an anxiety flare-up today, and one of the things I was anxious about was a short story submission I should hear back about today or tomorrow. I channeled my anxiety into trying to do another draft but as it turns out I think it’s actually done! So, I’ve got that going for me. I also made a list of three places to apply tomorrow when they reject me, markets that weren’t open when I looked last week.

    Now I’m only anxious about the work I didn’t do!

  29. 29.

    cthulhu

    I’ll admit to scandal overload at this point. I expected it would be bad but never this level of daily bad. Can we please go back to the low simmer of the Russia investigation?

  30. 30.

    zhena gogolia

    @Yutsano:

    Or baseball-bat his way out of. (Sorry, watched that one through my fingers the other night. I’ve never actually seen that scene.)

  31. 31.

    jimmiraybob

    …Like Trump ever “personally” repaid anyone except under threat.

    A smart lawyer would have tapes.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Miguel de Cervantes was supposed to have conceived the great novel Don Quixote while *he* was in jail. Machiavelli wrote The Prince while in political exile. So, there’s precedent… (/snark)

    Letter from the Birmingham Jail … De Profundis … Pilgrim’s Progress ….

    ETA: WTF, even Jeffrey Fucking Archer managed to crank out a fairly readable trilogy while he was in prison.

  33. 33.

    efgoldman

    @Thoughtful David:

    if I were them I would run a polonium detector over every cup of tea I was offered.

    Every bookie or loan shark knows you don’t kill the debtor; you never get your money if you do.

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    @efgoldman:

    Every bookie or loan shark knows you don’t kill the debtor; you never get your money if you do.

    You don’t kill them until you’re sure you’ll never be paid back. If you’re convinced you’ll never see your money again, you kill them in some awful way as an example for other would-be deadbeats.

    In the case of Kirshner, though, they may just decide they can’t get their money back directly, so they’ll have to take payment in kind. Which is exactly why he shouldn’t have any kind of clearance and should be kept as far away from the levers of power as possible.

  40. 40.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    I would have been terrible in the golden age of radio. If it’s a narrative, I want to SEE it, not hear it.

  41. 41.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Thoughtful David: As has been discussed before in various threads, high personal debt is a red flag for those vetting someone seeking a security clearance.

    You know, like Jared.

  42. 42.

    Jeffro

    Who’s a worse lawyer: Cohen, or Saul (from Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul)?

    I already know which one is smarter …

  47. 47.

    Amir Khalid

    @Roger Moore:
    For all we know, depending on who his real creditors are that could be their real plan: investing in him as a means of ,manipulating someone powerful that he was close to. Of course, this would be a plan based on an opportunity of the moment rather than a long-term strategic one.

  48. 48.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    I get a pop-up window that I can close with the X in the upper left-hand corner. It’s annoying, but a relatively minor annoyance.

  51. 51.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    PG Wodehouse wrote The Mating Season while he was being shuttled around various German internment camps during WWII. It’s one of his best books.

  56. 56.

    Roger Moore

    @Amir Khalid:
    Planning on payback in the form of political advantage rather than money would certainly help to explain why Kirshner is still getting loans today.

  59. 59.

    chris

    It’s the economic anxiety!

    One more way to consider this data: The IHME also estimates what it would expect a country’s rate of gun violence deaths to be based solely on its socioeconomic status. By that measure, the U.S. should only be seeing .79 deaths per 100,000 people — almost five times less than its actual rate of 3.85 deaths per 100,000.

    Not really, it’s all the fucking guns and no real laws at all.

  61. 61.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Major Major Major Major:

    So, I’ve got that going for me.

    Love it when young folks quote “Caddyshack”!

    Now I’m only anxious about the work I didn’t do!

    Dude, get over that shit. Do the bare minimum to keep from getting fired*. F the man!

    *why yes I am bargaining right now with a union that thinks we should never be able to fire non-performers. I may possibly be the tiniest bit cynical.

  62. 62.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    The Iowa legislature is considering two bills. One would ban sanctuary cities. Apparently they’ve heard nasty rumors about the eggheads in Iowa City. The other would allow concealed or open carry with no permit.

    I ask myself: Which person would I fear more? One who, without screening, entered the country or one who, without screening, is carrying a gun.

  66. 66.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Roger Moore:

    The last I heard — but it was a year ago at least, so perhaps things have changed — but last I heard, Schneiderman had the Trump Foundation under investigation so it could neither receive nor disburse during the period of legal scrutiny. No idea what the current status on that is, but regardless I would think they’d be careful about funneling *unusual* payments through the TF.

    Then again, these are not people renowned for their strategic or tactical acuity, so maybe?

  68. 68.

    Thoughtful David

    @Roger Moore: True. Part of my point though was that Jarvanka have to fear more than just the law catching up with them. And if you don’t have something of sufficient value to offer up in kind, you better be careful who you accept your tea from.
    Granted, being able to wander around the White House and read the PDB could provide you with info of value. But once you no longer have that to offer…..maybe they’ll be begging to be hauled off to Sing-Sing.

  69. 69.

    lamh36

    @TUSK81
    Following Following @TUSK81Jackie Kennedy, on Air Force One after JFK was shot on Nov. 22, 1963, was asked to change her clothes because the sight of JFK’s blood and brains was upsetting people. She cleaned her face and discarded her pillbox hat, but kept the bloodstained suit on. “Let them see what they’ve done,” she said. Mass shootings had not yet begun.

    https://twitter.com/TUSK81/status/963942743004205056

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: If I press escape on my computer, it also goes away. But I don’t think there’s an escape key on mobile devices, is there?

  73. 73.

    No Drought No More

    This episode with Ms. Stormy reminds me of the story of Mitt Romney and the cop, the one who informed Romney he could not launch launch his boat from a certain spot on a lake, and would be fined $50 if he did. The cop no sooner turned his back than Romney began to launch. $50? He was more than OK with paying a lousy $50 fine (the cop wasn’t amused, and Romney did not launch there that day). Fucks like Trump and Romney figure they can buy their way out of anything- the hell of it being they usually can. But not this time.

    I’m a bleeding heart’s bleeding heart, and always have been. But I am mercilessly unsympathetic to every single individual in Trump’s orbit- including every congressional republican- and believe every blasted last one of them should be crucified after their convictions. To be perfectly candid, the very though of their ongoing treason gives me pause to regret being a life long opponent of the death penalty. They are all traitors to this country, all a virulent cancer afflicting on our democracy, and they deserve all the punishment the countrymen they’ve betrayed ultimately choose to dish out, however severe.

  74. 74.

    Amir Khalid

    We have no idea if Michael Cohen is being honest about merely facilitating from his own pocket the payment to Stormy Daniels. His carefully worded statement names parties who he says didn’t reimburse him, but as has been pointed out it avoids saying that no one reimbursed him. I wouldn’t put it past him, or anyone else who works for den Scheißgibbon, to lie to the public about that work. He’s trying to hide something on Trump’s behalf, and managing only to draw more attention to it. I suspect that Mueller already knows what the something is, and that it’s prosecutable.

  75. 75.

    danielx

    This whole explanation from Cohen sounds exceedingly unlikely, unless the word ‘facilitate’ is the operative one. IANAL, but based upon friendships with several lawyers and acquaintance with others, the idea of an attorney using his own funds on behalf of a client, barring a family relationship, is absurd.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    @lamh36: Among many of his sins lets remember that George W Bush loosened the assault weapon ban.
    On Hayes show Senator Murphy wasn’t sure he wanted Trump to speak. He was concerned it wouldn’t help.

  81. 81.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold:

    Michael Cohen = Tom Hagen

    Hagen, while a fictional character, was much smarter.
    But then, his clients were leagues smarter than Cohen’s

  83. 83.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I promise to buy a copy of whatever when it eventually gets published.

    From Thrones, Dominatons by Dorothy L. Sayers and Jill Paton Walsh:

    “I think,” said Harriet, feeling she might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb, “you are behaving like a character in a book. And I think you are doing it on purpose.”

    “That’s rather shrewd of you,” said the vulture.

    “When I put you in a book,” pursued Harriet, “I shall make that aspect of your psychology quite clear.”

    “All right,” said Lady Severn. “I’ll take six copies. And I’ll promise to live till it’s published. Are you going to have any children, or only books?”

    “Well,” said Harriet, reasonably, “it’s easier to be definite about books. I mean, I know I can produce books.”

  85. 85.

    efgoldman

    @danielx:

    the idea of an attorney using his own funds on behalf of a client, barring a family relationship, is absurd.

    I believe it may also violate the canons, if not the law. Any members of the bar want to confirm, expand, or poo-poo?
    LAO? burnsie? Omnes? Steve?

  93. 93.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Major Major Major Major: Mnem is clearly Hitler. How can anyone even contest this uncontroversial fact? Only on Balloon Juice, I guess.

    /snark

    @chris: Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick, over 130? How does… who…

    Okay, my brain is working again. The important thing is that we focus on Hillary’s Email Server. How many political appointees had access to THAT, huh?

  96. 96.

    Corner Stone

    @lamh36: I don’t want him anywhere around this. I hate his fucking guts and anything he said I would hate with the intensity of an uncertain number of suns.

  99. 99.

    Steve in the ATL

    @efgoldman:

    I believe it may also violate the canons, if not the law. Any members of the bar want to confirm, expand, or poo-poo?
    LAO? burnsie? Omnes? Steve?

    Happy to explain in detail, as soon as the retainer hits my trust account!

    There was a case in Georgia 15-20 years ago where a lawyer paid the amount in dispute on behalf of his client, rendering the issue moot at the appellate court, because it was something like $200 and the client was pursuing it as a matter of principal (never take a case like that!) and the lawyer thought it was a waste of everyone’s time and resources. The client objected to the payment that had been made as he wanted to continue to make his point and sued the lawyer.

    Unfortunately, I can’t remember how that one turned out.

  101. 101.

    Mike in NC

    @chris: Nobody in Trump’s orbit ever previously had a federal security clearance, except the generals, nor do I believe with so many shady things about them that they could honestly qualify for one.

  105. 105.

    Roger Moore

    @Mike in NC:

    Nobody in Trump’s orbit ever previously had a federal security clearance, except the generals, nor do I believe with so many shady things about them that they could honestly qualify for one.

    It’s point two that has most of us so upset.

  109. 109.

    efgoldman

    @lamh36:

    even stranger that no one seems to miss or even expect his presence.

    If he did, inevitably both of his feet and at least one other end up deeply in his mouth.
    Also a person of no or negative empathy.

  116. 116.

    efgoldman

    @Mike in NC:

    I believe with so many shady things about them that they could honestly qualify for one.

    Herr Doktor Professor Silverman could expand on this, but based on what he’s said, Ii believe congress would specifically have to take the authority away from the “president” to grant clearances regardless.

  118. 118.

    Miss Bianca

    @Steve in the ATL:

    There was a case in Georgia 15-20 years ago where a lawyer paid the amount in dispute on behalf of his client, rendering the issue moot at the appellate court, because it was something like $200 and the client was pursuing it as a matter of principal (never take a case like that!) and the lawyer thought it was a waste of everyone’s time and resources. The client objected to the payment that had been made as he wanted to continue to make his point and sued the lawyer.

    That’s the second lawyerly set-up I’ve heard here today that sounds like a Coen Brothers movie Right up there with the Elvis-impersonator hitman from Houston.

    smh – this wonderful world!

  119. 119.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amir Khalid:

    After what he did to the family of Sergeant La David Johnson, Trump needs to be kept well away from any bereaved families.

    “Those kids knew what they were getting in to when they went to school.”

  121. 121.

    mad citizen

    @lamh36: We are on our own as a nation–like having a permanent substitute teacher who is the most incompetent person imaginable. I was driving home this afternoon listening to the news thinking, I wonder how it would look if Obama scheduled a new conference to do the Consoler-in-Chief thing.

  122. 122.

    efgoldman

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I like to think that I have reached their level of skill.

    Even without meeting you (maybe next time you’re in New England) I can definitely see the resemblance.

  124. 124.

    tobie

    I made the mistake of turning on the TV just now to hear Gov. Rick Scott solemnly intone that the only plausible cause for the tragedy that happened today is “pure evil.” Thank dog, I was wearing slippers so when I threw one at the TV nothing broke. The gall of these NRA cheerleaders!

  127. 127.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Steve in the ATL: We had a case where a guy was charged with embezzlement of the funds of a local soccer club. He denied the allegations. He had receipts. The DA offered to dismiss the case if the guy paid $5K to the soccer club. Guy refused saying he was innocent. Guy’s lawyer paid the 5K because he didn’t want to spend a week in court trying the case and the case was dismissed. It was only when the guy was going after the Sheriff’s dept and the soccer club for malicious prosecution that the 5K payment from the lawyer came to light. Guy did a bar complaint and the bar basically said “meh, no harm no foul” and dismissed the complaint. I was gobsmacked to say the least.

  128. 128.

    Corner Stone

    @mad citizen: “Listen, people. This guy is fucked in the head. Please allow me to serve in this time of grief with some dignity, respect, and honor. Thank you.”

  130. 130.

    Anotherlurker

    Please excuse the Off Topic.
    I just watched a < 10 minute Youtube video, giving the viewer the extremely easy instructions of how to convert an AK-47 from semi to full auto.
    I am very upset.

  131. 131.

    Matt McIrvin

    @lamh36: I don’t know about the Hallmark Channel, but that line from anti-abortion people has been around for a long time–I think I heard people pushing it decades ago.

  132. 132.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Miss Bianca:

    My suspicion is that most of the good lines are DLS — JPW picked things up partway through — but although there are huge plot holes and chronological hiccups, it’s fairly seamless and a decent mystery (of the “howdunnit,” not “whodunnit” variety). I enjoy listening to Ian Carmichael’s audio recording — he is brilliant at giving certain characters unique voices, including the Countess of Severn-and-Thames (Lady Severn above), the Hon Freddy Arbuthnot, and a pair of petty criminal blackmailers.

  134. 134.

    efgoldman

    @tobie:

    Gov. Rick Scott solemnly intone that the only plausible cause for the tragedy that happened today is “pure evil.”

    My granddaughter starts kindergarten next year. It makes me weep (really) that she’ll be getting active shooter drills in school.
    My daughter told me tonite that they’ve been practicing shelter in place at nursery school since she was two, mandated by VA state law.
    Alternately weeping and outraged

  136. 136.

    eric

    @Litlebritdifrnt: so long as the payment is NOT contrary to your client’s wishes, it should not violate bar rules. if you call it a loan and expect repayment with interest, then there are other issues that come into play, and it might then be a violation. If it is a no-interest loan, i dont see the problem, other than poor business strategy.

  138. 138.

    TS

    Nothing like US media – only one thing at a time ever happens. no wonder trump wants a war to stop folks talking about what is happening inside his administration & inside the USA

  140. 140.

    tobie

    @efgoldman: This is so wrong at so many levels. Any parent, grandparent, or great-grandparent has to worry about a kid going to school. Just awful.

  142. 142.

    Miss Bianca

    @SiubhanDuinne: Didn’t Ian Carmichael play Lord Peter in some early BBC productions? (by early I mean “Pre-Harriet Vane.”)

    I remember it was watching him in “Five Red Herrings” that convinced me to give Sayers a try. Wouldn’t you know, I started with that one – and I still can never keep all the damn railway timetable stuff straight in my head!

  144. 144.

    efgoldman

    @Baud:

    Cries of joy at the epic FREEDOM, right?

    I’m old enough to remember the first US mass shooting (Charles Whitman, U of Texas Tower, 1966). There were mass killings before, but not from firearms
    Among many things nobody thought could happen, that these events would come to be routine was near the top of the list

  145. 145.

    raven

    @efgoldman:

    Howard Barton Unruh (January 21, 1921 – October 19, 2009) was an American mass murderer[2] (sometimes classified as a spree killer)[3] who killed 13 people (including three children) during a 12-minute walk through his neighborhood on September 6, 1949, in Camden, New Jersey, when he was 28 years old.[4] The incident became known as the “Walk of Death”. Unruh was found to be criminally insane, and died in 2009 after a lengthy illness at the age of 88, following 60 years of confinement.[1]

  147. 147.

    efgoldman

    @tobie:

    This is so wrong at so many levels.

    I worry about her getting a mediocre or incompetent teacher; about being bullied; about banging up against a subject she can’t handle – you know, normal stuff

  149. 149.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    That makes me nauseated. TWO-YEAR-OLDS do shelter-in-place drills? How Osceola this not a national outrage??

    ETA: JFC, autocorrect. Where the fuck did “Osceola” come from?? (To be clear, sentence was supposed to be “How is this not a national outrage?”)

  152. 152.

    Amaranthine RBG

    How in the world could Cohen publish a “tell all” book without violating client confidence???

    New York Rules of Professional Conduct state “[t]he ethical obligation to maintain the ‘confidences’ and ‘secrets’ of clients and former clients is broader than the attorney-client privilege, and exists ‘without regard to the nature or source of information or the fact that others share the knowledge. …This ‘broader’ category of ‘secret’ embraces all other information ‘gained in the professional relationship that the client has requested be held inviolate or the disclosure of which would be embarrassing or would be likely to be detrimental to the client.’” This obligation, too, exists for all time.

    See here for discussion: https://www.stroock.com/siteFiles/Publications/ConfidentialityKeepingSecretNonPrivilegedInformation.pdf

  153. 153.

    efgoldman

    @raven:

    an American mass murderer[2] (sometimes classified as a spree killer)[3] who killed 13 people

    I had just turned four. The only newspaper I read was the Sunday comics with my dad. TV news (TV period) as we know it didn’t exist.
    You, on the other hand, have too much time on your hands/

  154. 154.

    Groucho48

    @efgoldman:

    Here in Buffalo, a few years ago, one of the big ambulance-chasing law firms got into trouble for loaning money to their clients. A big no-no. They were fined and one of the two partners was suspended from the firm for a year or so. Apparently, the thinking is that it gives big, deep pocket law firms a big advantage over smaller firms in getting clients.

  158. 158.

    lamh36

    Wow… watching Chris Rock’s new comedy special on Netflix…2nd segment is about “Gun Control”…wow…prescient…

  162. 162.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yup, Carmichael played Lord Peter in five BBC productions (Edward Petherbridge played him in three other TV series, and took over the audiobook responsibilities after Carmichael’s death).

    I love Five Red Herrings, but I would never recommend it as an introduction to the LPW canon! Far too confusing with all those Scottish painters, and the persnickety railroad time-tables!

  164. 164.

    Gin & Tonic

    Men’s downhill looks like they’re having a great day for a race, finally. This is my favorite event of the games.

  166. 166.

    tobie

    @lamh36: Funny thing is, he won’t be accused of politicizing these murders, though that is precisely what Rick Scott is doing.

  169. 169.

    lamh36

    “some people say young black men are an endangered species, but that’s not true, cause endagered species are protected by the government…”

    Chris Rock #Tamborine

  171. 171.

    Chet Murthy

    @NotMax: Hell, her lawyer stated today that she considers herself freed from the nondisclosure due to breach by the other party (Cohen). I gotta believe she’s got excellent representation, including on tax matters.

  172. 172.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    I’m old enough to remember the first US mass shooting (Charles Whitman, U of Texas Tower, 1966)

    Yep, me too. That was an insane few years, the ’60s. JFK, Malcolm X, Whitman-UT, MLK, RFK, the Manson Family murders, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some.

  177. 177.

    efgoldman

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m the one who has my house automated

    I wonder if even a tech wizard like yourself.(no sarcasm) can be sure you’re protected.

    Also somebody insulted you last nite. Said Salt Lake City was the p0rn capitol. Consumption, maybe; everyone knows Glendale is the production capitol

  178. 178.

    jl

    ” Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Cohen’s a smart lawyer
    Really? Says who? ”

    I thought it was ‘sezhhoo’

  180. 180.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Gin & Tonic: I have to say that I doubt anything at the Olympics will ever match Klammer in Innsbruck.*

    *I doubt anyone will ever match Klammer in general.

  181. 181.

    lamh36

    “We need bullies…that’s how Trump became President. We got rid of bullies… A real bully showed up…and NOBODY knew how to handle him”
    “The cast of Apprentice is running the world”
    Chris Rock #Tamborine

    His riff on Trump and even George W. Bush is good

  189. 189.

    Chet Murthy

    @Mnemosyne: After Newtown, Obama did a self-lacerating thing IIRC. He sat with each family for as long as needed, in private, let them say whatever they needed to say. I can’t imagine having the strength to do that. The Usurper? Not a chance.

  190. 190.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @eric: the payment was directly against the client’s wishes. He wanted a trial, he wanted to be acquitted. He had no intention of pleading guilty. He came to us after he found out that the case had been dismissed and wanted to sue the sheriff’s dept and the soccer club for wrongfully accusing him. It was only after my boss contacted the county attorney did it come to light that the client’s lawyer had paid the soccer club off to drop the case.

  191. 191.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    You could do worse than reading Murder Must Advertise or The Nine Tailors to start with. They don’t include Harriet Vane, except in the most oblique way, but they are of the same period. From those, I’d pick up the four HV novels in chronological order: Strong Poison, Have His Carcase, Gaudy Night (not only my favourite DLS, but my favourite novel in the world, the one I’ve read a hundred times and still find something new to appreciate every time), and Busman’s Honeymoon. You can go back later and pick up some of the backstories.

  192. 192.

    Gin & Tonic

    @efgoldman: No, hoping for a clean race. At the speeds those guys go, you can die. Seriously.

    Thing is, I understand how hard and risky that event is. I have gone over 50 mph on skis a number of times, and at that speed, I feel like I’m just barely hanging on. These dudes are going 80. That’s inconceivable to me.

  195. 195.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    Today of all days I am glad that I made the decision to move back to the UK. I might be in danger of getting stabbed, by some random idiot but my chances of getting shot are minute.

  196. 196.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Corner Stone:

    I have gone over 50 mph on skis a number of times, and at that speed, I feel like I’m just barely hanging on.

    OMGOMGOMGIFIFALLIWILLDIEOMGOMG!!!!!11!!!

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud:

    Late to the thread, but the workaround to the Twitter problem is to erase everything from the right end of the URL back to (and including) the question mark. That gets you the “short” tweet URL that always goes through.

    Tweets posted by front-pagers at Balloon Juice add a very long “suffix” containing the post title, presumably to tell Twitter where the “referral” is coming from. Sometimes these cause me to get a message that “Twitter is taking too long to load” or “You are not permitted to see these tweets.” Erasing the suffix always fixes the problem.

    To take the first Zeddy tweet above, if you click on it you get the URL:
    https://twitter.com/Zeddary/status/963804579971420160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balloon-juice.com%2F2018%2F02%2F14%2Frussiagate-open-thread-the-wages-of-fiscal-sin%2F

    That can be safely shortened to:
    https://twitter.com/Zeddary/status/963804579971420160

  203. 203.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Gin & Tonic: Hey, I’ve seen two Hahnenkammrennen in person. One was in ’92 when Kitt came in 2d. I was in Germany then and Kitz was our ski resort of choice. Bad weekend to ski there.

  205. 205.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Steeplejack:

    Sometimes these cause me to get a message that “Twitter is taking too long to load” or “You are not permitted to see these tweets.” Erasing the suffix always fixes the problem.

    FWIW, refreshing has always fixed this specific problem for me in the past, but if they changed the algorithm in the past few days, then it might not any longer. Thanks for the heads-up about URL shortening.

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