Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

The Supreme Court is corrupt. Democrats must win in November and force court reform.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

This fight is for everything.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

We’re not going back!

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Second rate reporter says what?

Tick tock motherfuckers!

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Laying The Groundwork

Laying The Groundwork

by | 308 Comments

This post is in: ,

The indictment just released from the Mueller investigation, against 13 Russian individuals and 3 Russian organizations, lays out what we have been hearing bits and pieces of for some time, but it’s in a legally rigorous form, presumably with what Mueller’s team thinks is enough to convict. Those named conspired to interfere in the presidential election of 2016.

Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter were particularly used. The Twitter account “Tennessee GOP,” @Ten_GOP, long suspected by Twitterati of being a Russian front, is specifically called out. Topics focused on were immigration, Black Lives Matter, and religion. The organizations used stolen US identities. And OMG so much more!

 

I have stuff happening IRL this afternoon and so can’t do a detailed rundown. I’ll be around a little while for the discussion. I’m sure Adam will have more to say later, as will I. Read the indictment. It’s easy to read, and amazing.

In the overall scheme of things, this is a first step for Mueller. His remit is to “investigate any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald J. Trump.” He has now established that the Russian government interfered in the election. The indictment also says that individuals associated with the campaign were involved with the Russians. The indictment, and Deputy AG Ron Rosenstein, are very careful to say that those individuals were not knowingly involved with Russians. But there clearly will be more to come.

This helps to inoculate Mueller and Rosenstein against firing.

Trump was briefed on the indictment before it was released. Perhaps they also confiscated his iPhone. If not, there should be some interesting tweets.

Reader Interactions

308Comments

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    I’m not qualified to interpret this but for once am taking it as a positive Friday news dump. Go, Bobby Three-Sticks!

    Another interesting development, whod’a thunk ICE officials could ever be corrupt?

    Former ICE Chief Counsel Pleads Guilty to Using the Identities of Numerous Aliens for Wire Fraud and Aggravated Identity Theft Scheme

    Former Chief Counsel Raphael A. Sanchez of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Office of Principal Legal Advisor pleaded guilty today for a wire fraud and aggravated identity theft scheme involving the identities of numerous aliens, announced Acting Assistant Attorney General John P. Cronan of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and ICE Deputy Director Thomas D. Homan.

    Sanchez, 44, of Seattle, Washington, will be sentenced on May 11, before U.S. District Judge Robert S. Lansik of the Western District of Washington.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    I am just waiting for Trump to erupt over this. Between this indictment, the one of the American who apparently took a deal, and meeting with victim’s families who may not be too welcoming. He’s gotta pop at some point.
    Oh, and the pr0n sex stuff, also too.

  5. 5.

    Cheryl Rofer

    This indictment also came down. Looks like one of the American helpers.

  7. 7.

    LAO

    It’s interesting. None of the Russian will ever be prosecuted because that would require Russia extraditing them to US. But Mueller has effectively protected his investigation from White House interference. Well played.

  10. 10.

    debbie

    If indicting Russians protects Muller’s investigation and keeps him from ever being fired, that’s great. Hopefully someone will be along to explain how this does that.

  13. 13.

    The Dangerman

    This helps to inoculate Mueller and Rosenstein against firing.

    I wonder if the timing of this indictment had anything to do with the #3 running, not walking, away to Walmart a few days ago; you just know Trump wanted to fire Rosenstein before this came out.

    ETA: …and, of course, after firing Rosenstein, Meuller would have been gone in nanoseconds after Trump put in a lackey at #2.

  14. 14.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Russians were pushing attacks on Rubio, Cruz in the primary — while trying to promote Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary.

    by the pricking of my thumbs
    the “LEAVE BERNIE ALOOOOOONE!” brigade comes!
    ETA: I have heard the words “Jill Stein” on MSNBC more in the last hour than in the last… ever

  15. 15.

    Corner Stone

    If Ari Melber is correct, the Russians meddled to damage HRC, Ted Cruz, and Rubio – and supported Trump *and* Bernie Sanders.

  17. 17.

    GregB

    No wonder Trey Gowdy isn’t running for re-election.

    No wonder that Mercer woman took the time to write and ope ed trying to salvage her reputation.

    No wonder The Intercept has now stopped calling everyone pointing out Russian attacks as being McCarthyites.

    Also, the stories coming out about Trump’s personal life, they know he is taking on water and listing hard.

    * Note also everyone supporting Trump now declaring, that of course the Russian engaged in active measures against the US, but they didn’t change the outcome.

  18. 18.

    Major Major Major Major

    Time for some game theory.

    @GregB:

    No wonder that Mercer woman took the time to write and ope ed trying to salvage her reputation.

    I didn’t read it, because the WSJ only shows you the first two sentences, what did she say?

  20. 20.

    Corner Stone

    And again, even for those who don’t want to hear it, this is all stuff the IC knew and told Obama as far back as 2015.

  24. 24.

    Corner Stone

    @GregB:

    Note also everyone supporting Trump now declaring, that of course the Russian engaged in active measures against the US, but they didn’t change the outcome.

    Rosenstein was very careful to be very careful about the indictment not speaking to this element. I think it’s obvious that sometime after the 2018 elections we will be told that outcomes were in fact changed.

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: Basically Mueller has just made it impossible for these people to travel openly outside of Russia ever again.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    It will not shock me at all if Air Force One makes an abrupt turn to the Eastward on it’s way to “Florida”.

  28. 28.

    Waldo

    Maybe time for Dems to revisit the unenforced sanctions against Russia, and call for some stronger ones. Just to see how Trumpov reacts.

  29. 29.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Russians were pushing attacks on Rubio, Cruz in the primary — while trying to promote Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary.

    by the pricking of my thumbs
    the “LEAVE BERNIE ALOOOOOONE!” brigade comes!

    Unless Bernie was actively co-operating with or seeking Russian assistance, the only thing I care about is sticking it to the Russians and getting Trump.

  30. 30.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    Somebody said the guy from Florida is a tax preparer, SSNs anyone? What a sweet way to steal identities, hook up with a tax preparer.

  33. 33.

    JMG

    @Corner Stone: This is the difference between law and practical politics. As a matter of law, this illegal effort to influence the election cannot be proved to have affected the outcome. It’s not like hacking voting machines. But practically, of course it did. Why do it otherwise?

  35. 35.

    Joyce H

    @Corner Stone:

    It will not shock me at all if Air Force One makes an abrupt turn to the Eastward on it’s way to “Florida”.

    Air Force wouldn’t do it. You think that AF crew wants to defect?! But! – Trump does have his own airplane. MIght meet up with it one of these days, if things get too hairy.

  38. 38.

    Spanky

    Is it too much to hope that the Trumpites who mindlessly retweeted and propagated the crap from the sources named in the indictment will now have second thoughts about what they did?

    Sometimes I crack myself up.

  40. 40.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?

    @The Dangerman:
    Doesn’t Mueller has civil service protections? He can’t be fired without just cause and any excuse the Trump team would try to cook up wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny by a court.

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

  46. 46.

    MisterForkbeard

    As always, glad for the expertise of Cheryl and Adam (and others).

    Interestingly, on social media I’m seeing a lot of “Trump’s not involved, see!” or “Why don’t they indict Hillary for the same thing?”. It’s a GREAT indicator for “gigantic idiot”. But as others have noted – the big talking point now is going to be “yeah, but they didn’t directly change vote totals and there’s no proof the Trump campaign colluded on purpose, so there.”

  48. 48.

    bemused

    Be still, my heart. Feeling a change in our gun madness and now Cheryl’s breakdown of Mueller indictment has been quite a week. I don’t dare feel too hopeful but damn!

  50. 50.

    GregB

    @Major Major Major Major:

    She essentially said she was for apple pie, mom, America, education, science and she is not a racist or a hater. Yet she supported Trump because she felt he would challenge entrenched interests.

    Supporting a global cabal of dictators, casino magnates, arms traders, human traffickers, money launderers, war mongers and assassins, and cyber criminals apparently don’t figure as entrenched interests.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: First off, that’s not something that is a question that the law can answer. That’s a counterintelligence and counter cyber threat determination. Outside of a court of law’s jurisdiction.

    Also, this is just today’s indictment.

  54. 54.

    David Anderson

    IANAL but the phrasing on “communication with unwitting Trump Campaign officials AND OTHERS….” seems odd.

    I’ve been around enough good lawyers to know that they tend to be efficient with their words especially when they have time to type.

    So there are some unwitting TC officials (my bet is the state coordinator/field organizer grunts) and OTHERS… why include the modifier “Unwitting” unless there is a distinction within individuals who belong to the Trump Campaign?

    Am I reading too much into that odd phrasing?

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: I honestly don’t know how they can let him go to Parkdale and meet with survivors. Or anyone else for that matter. He’s going to be stuck on AF1 for a couple of hours, watching cable news, reading tweets, and stewing in his own juices. They’re looking at a potential PR and strategic communication nightmare.

  57. 57.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    Unless Bernie was actively co-operating with or seeking Russian assistance, the only thing I care about is sticking it to the Russians and getting Trump.

    I don’t want to do anything to Bernie because of this- unless he knowingly cooperated, of course- but I want all the Bernie or Bust people to realize they were being played by Russian trolls. If you went along, especially if you decided to vote for a third party, you were going along with a Russian disruption campaign.

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @GregB: Yet she supported Trump because she felt he would challenge entrenched interests.

    Christ, I’m tempted to track it down to see what the Wall St trust fund baby with the ‘trademark’ diamond encrusted eye-glasses thinks are “entrenched interests”. But I can guess: The NAACP and the CBC and BLM, NARAL and PP, the ACLU, teachers’ unions, the National Wildlife Federation.

  59. 59.

    Corner Stone

    Somebody needs to do a wellness check on commenter Jeffro Mensch. He’s probably stroked out on a floor somewhere.

  60. 60.

    trollhattan

    This is kind of like real life revenge of the nerds. Trump and most Republicans believe their own press and yes men as to their superiority in all things, including thinkin’. They’re presently being out-thunk.

  61. 61.

    lgerard

    Some defendants, posing as US persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign

    That doesn’t narrow it down at all, does it

  63. 63.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Roger Moore:

    I want all the Bernie or Bust people to realize they were being played by Russian trolls. If you went along, especially if you decided to vote for a third party, you were going along with a Russian disruption campaign.

    Yeah, that’s my only horse in this race re: Bernie, that and bringing those responsible to justice and whatnot. I want those idiots to feel terrible.

  65. 65.

    germy

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Somebody said the guy from Florida is a tax preparer, SSNs anyone? What a sweet way to steal identities, hook up with a tax preparer.

    I’m missing some crucial detail here. The Florida Man is American, right? Then why does Rosenstein say “There is no allegation in the indictment that any American was knowingly involved.”

  68. 68.

    Spanky

    @David Anderson: Also “known and unknown others” might make some of the “known others” a tad nervous, don’t you think?

    I think all of the words are there for a reason.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Major Major Major Major: I’d like Wilmer to learn a little humility. But I think we might as well ask him to learn to fly. Maybe other Dems, elected and grassroots, will at least learn not to let him establish litmus tests.

  72. 72.

    Fair Economist

    @debbie:

    Not Wilmer for Wilmer’s sake, but to fuck even more with Clinton. But you knew that.

    Do we actually know that? Wilmer voted against sanctions on Russia multiple times, and his campaign manager had a long-term relationship with Russia puppets in Ukraine.

    Not to say we *know* Wilmer is in with the Russians, but at this point we don’t *know* he isn’t either.

  73. 73.

    Aleta

    Sherrilyn Ifill
     @Sifill_LDF
    Sadly, no surprises here. Any entity or country seeking to manipulate a U.S. election would be utterly incompetent if they didn’t exploit one of our most glaring national security vulnerabilities: racism.

  74. 74.

    Tom Q

    @Adam L Silverman: Every time Rosenstein repeated “In this indictment”, I was hearing Saoirse Ronan’s Lady Bird voice “That we KNOW of…”

    I think this was actually a pretty elegantly constructed indictment. It put the fact of Russian interference squarely, undeniably on the table, while not giving any personal accusation against Trump and his team…meaning the investigation gains seriousness points without playing into Trump’s “they’re after me” scenario. Once Mueller does get to the point of going after the Trump gang personally (and you know he will), the investigation will be too ingrained for Trump to abort it

  79. 79.

    zhena gogolia

    Repeated from below: One of the individuals is named Podkopaev, derived from the verb meaning “to undermine.” I guess it’s a not uncommon surname, but still . . . .

  81. 81.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @David Anderson:

    So there are some unwitting TC officials (my bet is the state coordinator/field organizer grunts) and OTHERS… why include the modifier “Unwitting” unless there is a distinction within individuals who belong to the Trump Campaign?

    My read is that there is more to come. I think Mueller wanted to make these indictments cleanly establish that there was a Russian operation and not fog it up with anything more. They probably aren’t to the indictment stage for connections to the campaign anyway.

    I would expect that some contacts started “unwittingly” but later became obvious, too. So probably a range of “wittingness” that will come out in later indictments.

    A number of people on my Twitter feed appended “yet” to the statements.

  82. 82.

    Achrachno

    Thank you Cheryl! I’ve been laid up for 3 days with some form of the crud that’s going around and this post has really made me feel better. I look forward to more in a similar vein.

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    @Fair Economist: I believe Senator Warner said at one point that they were investigating the “Stein campaign and another” that he would not identify. My unnamed source tells me that a number — large number — of the 27 dollar contributions to Sanders were from Russia, with love.

  88. 88.

    Aleta

    Vox:

    Special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s office announced Friday it had reached a plea deal with a California man who committed identify fraud as part of the ongoing Russia probe. The deal was announced the same day as the the blockbuster indictments of a dozen Russian nationals and three Russia-affiliated groups alleging interference with the 2016 presidential election.

    The charges against Richard Pinedo of Santa Paula, California, state that he sold bank account numbers created using the stolen identities of US citizens to people or entities outside of the United States. The Russian groups indicted by Mueller used social media posts, online ads, and rallies in the US to create propaganda efforts “primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to Mueller’s other indictment released Friday. Pinedo’s charges appear related to that activity.

    As part of his plea deal, Pinedo has agreed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

    While the precise implications of Pinedo’s plea agreement were not immediately clear, the federal grand jury indictment against the Russians notably alleged that they had used the stolen identifies of US citizens as part of their election interference campaign.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/16/17021178/mueller-russian-indictments-richard-pinedo-plea-deal

  89. 89.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    “This should put to rest any assertions by President Trump that the special counsel’s investigation is a “witch hunt” or a “hoax”.”

    Trump: “Hold my golf club.”

  90. 90.

    Spanky

    Twitter says it will notify nearly 700,000 users who interacted with accounts the company has identified as potential pieces of a propaganda effort by the Russian government during the 2016 presidential election.

    The company on Friday also disclosed thousands of accounts that it said were associated with the Kremlin-linked troll farm, the Internet Research Agency (IRA) and the Russian government, adding to numbers that it released to Congress in October.

    Twitter said that it had identified 3,814 IRA-linked accounts, which posted some 176,000 tweets in the 10 weeks preceding the election, and another 50,258 automated accounts connected to the Russian government, which tweeted more than a million times, while acknowledging that “such activity represents a challenge to democratic societies everywhere,” in a news release Friday afternoon.

  92. 92.

    germy

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    not in this indictment.

    OK, thanks. That’s the part I didn’t understand.

    But now I see they claim Florida Man was an “ostrich” who didn’t know he was dealing with Russia?

    Another “unwitting dupe” ?

  94. 94.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Major Major Major Major: This. Bernie is fine. Whatever – he was a bit full of himself as the Great Hope Of The Working Class, but he’s fine.

    His hardcore supporters who still protested and freaked out against Hillary should all realize they fell victim to propaganda. And while I personally think that should come with an apology and I’d really like to see one, I’d take the “I got sold a bill of goods about Hillary and I’ll learn from it.”

    @germy: Same thing, right? :)

  97. 97.

    Fair Economist

    @Immanentize:

    My unnamed source tells me that a number — large number — of the 27 dollar contributions to Sanders were from Russia, with love.

    Yep, given that the 27 dollar contributions don’t get checked for legitimacy (IIRC that happens at 100 dollars or more), they are a great way to launder contributions – from the Russians, or anybody else.

  98. 98.

    Lapassionara

    @lgerard: Yea, I love the use of the word “unwitting.”

    Someone on Twitter is worried because Trump was briefed on this indictment before it was announced. I don’t recall for sure, but I don’t think Trump was briefed on the other indictments. Let me know if I am wrong about that fact, but indicting foreign nationals would be different, as affecting foreign policy/relationships, the area of the president’s authority. I think that was the reason for the briefing. Maybe Adam and/or Cheryl will know.

  99. 99.

    Davis X. Machina

    All of these indictments for attempts to influence a US presidential election, yet Debbie Waterman Schultz still walks a free woman?

    America, I weep for you.

  100. 100.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Two things from the threads below:

    – this is such a brilliant move by Mueller. Unlike an American, what would be the possible reason to go after the justice department for prosecuting Russians? How do you attack that if you’re Trump? “Waaaaah, the DOJ is being mean to Russians, waaah” An excellent tactical move by Mueller.

    – is anyone else charmed by the fact that Mueller signed the indictment with a fountain pen? I don’t know why, but that is just such a delightful touch. Feeds into the whole “this morning Robert Mueller got up and quietly went about doing his job” meme.

  101. 101.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    I don’t want to do anything to Bernie because of this- unless he knowingly cooperated, of course- but I want all the Bernie or Bust people to realize they were being played by Russian trolls. If you went along, especially if you decided to vote for a third party, you were going along with a Russian disruption campaign.

    I’d like to know more about what the Russians did with respect to the Sanders campaign.

    But this is why the Russian interference is insidious. It is not just that they may have contributed to Clinton losing. Voters had an absolute right to support a third party candidate and not have the legitimacy of their decision fucked with by Russian bullshit.

  102. 102.

    germy

    Excited for Glenn Greenwald’s next piece, “Why Russians Interfering in the Election Doesn’t Mean Any Russians Interfered in the Election” https://t.co/MOq7mR1DAg— Mike Drucker (@MikeDrucker) February 16, 2018

    Anyway, shoutout to folks who carried water for Russian billionaires for the last year and a half because they’re nostalgic for a government body that hasn’t existed in almost 30 years.— Mike Drucker (@MikeDrucker) February 16, 2018

  103. 103.

    Corner Stone

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I would expect that some contacts started “unwittingly” but later became obvious, too. So probably a range of “wittingness” that will come out in later indictments.

    I think we’re going to see the word “unwittingly” screamed from every Republican rooftop for the next couple months. They will all sell themselves down the river, hanging on this one word. Then Mueller will drop the next set of paper on their ass.

  105. 105.

    germy

    Mueller indictment of Russians starts to fill out the other side.

    Next: who are the actors in this country. The contours of the conspiracy are starting to be detailed.

    This is hugely significant.

    — Eric Holder (@EricHolder) February 16, 2018

  108. 108.

    JMG

    “Unwittingly” is not a good defense in the court of public opinion. It means “I was a sucker.”

  110. 110.

    Spanky

    @Davis X. Machina:

    All of these indictments for attempts to influence a US presidential election, yet Debbie Waterman Schultz still walks a free woman?

    There’s no evidence that Debbie Wasserman Schultz ever influenced a US election.

    Thanks for the setup!

  111. 111.

    Corner Stone

    Reporting that Trump has told his staff to find some way for him to visit the Parkland school asap, even if it’s tonight. My read on that nugget is: doesn’t want to interfere with his round of golf tomorrow.

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: More will be coming. The last time the Russians, doing business then as the Soviet Union, did something this elaborate in the US during WW II, it took the VENONA counterintelligence investigation over 35 years to fully roll everything up. Patience is a virtue here. I know that sounds hard. But it’s the truth.

    Mueller knows far, far, far more than any of us do. He and his team know everything that occurred. Now they’re working out how to move that from the intelligence side to the criminal side without compromising sources and methods. He also is finalizing the picture of the cover up.

    ETA: Remember what else happened this week. The President’s budget is both DOA and ridiculed. While the DACA EO kids are still at risk, the President didn’t get money for a wall, he didn’t end family immigration, he didn’t end the immigration visa lottery, he didn’t roll back US immigration laws to what they were in the 1920s, and Infrastructure Week: The Infrastructuring!!!!! got stomped all over. His proposal got ridiculed. Also, the DC City Council voted preemptively to deny any and all permits for a military parade in DC. At any time.

  115. 115.

    moops

    THERE ARE FOUR important tracks to follow in the Trump-Russia story. First, we must determine whether there is credible evidence for the underlying premise that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Trump win. Second, we must figure out whether Trump or people around him worked with the Russians to try to win the election. Next, we must scrutinize the evidence to understand whether Trump and his associates have sought to obstruct justice by impeding a federal investigation into whether Trump and Russia colluded. A fourth track concerns whether Republican leaders are now engaged in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice through their intense and ongoing efforts to discredit Mueller’s probe.

    From the earlier BJ post on the topic excerpted from the Intercept article. I think it was prescient that this is going down in the order guessed.

  119. 119.

    different-church-lady

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Basically Mueller has just made it impossible for these people to travel openly outside of Russia ever again.

    The Ecuadorian embassy is about to get might-ty crowded…

  121. 121.

    germy

    And here we go:

    Some interesting aspects of the allegations in the Mueller indictments as described by Bloomberg https://t.co/SdZZtVuyMC pic.twitter.com/scnds678zE— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) February 16, 2018

    “Russia’s information warfare didn’t affect the outcome” is what he’s saying here.

    Your second highlighted sentence is incorrect.

    Rosenstein actually said "There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election." NOT that it didn't alter the outcome.— Dean S (@DinoStraciatela) February 16, 2018

    That completely misrepresents what Rosenstein said. Surprise, surprise that you’d be spreading such lies— Jim Savage (@JimSavage20) February 16, 2018

  125. 125.

    Davis X. Machina

    @germy: It never happened, and didn’t affect the outcome, and American elections are a joke anyways, and besides, Hillary was going to bomb Iran.

    That’s not ‘a few straws’. Them’s quality straws. I’m proud just to have them available for clutching– should it prove necessary, of course.

  126. 126.

    Spanky

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Mueller knows far, far, far more than any of us do. He and his team know everything that occurred. Now they’re working out how to move that from the intelligence side to the criminal side without compromising sources and methods. He also is finalizing the picture of the cover up.

    And he knows he has ability to completely disrupt the US government were he to mis-step in laying out the facts. I’m not sure how he manages to get any sleep.

  127. 127.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: If I was the COS, the Director of Strategic Comms, the Director of Advance, and/or the Press Secretary I would be cancelling all events. And contacting the President’s cellphone service provider to arrange for a long weekend of service outage. Or having the Secret Service put a scrambler at Emolument a Lago to interfere with cell service so he can’t tweet.

  128. 128.

    Lapassionara

    One thing I really appreciate is that this came as a surprise. Meaning no leaks from the SC’s office or from Grand Jury. Good for Mueller and his team.

  130. 130.

    James E. Powell

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I do worry sometimes that we won’t know the full extent of this business until the historians are searching through the ashes of American democracy.

  131. 131.

    hueyplong

    Think of Vlad as Remo in “Casino” as the indictments hit:

    Pesci, narrating: When something like this happens you know how it’s gonna work out. It’s always better with NO witnesses. So what about Andrei?

    Oligarch 1: He won’t talk. [Last Name] is a good kid. Stand-up guy just like his old man. That’s the way I see it.

    Oligarch 2: I agree. He’s solid. A fucking Marine.

    Oligarch 3: He’s OK. He always was. Vladimir, what do you think?

    Vladimir Putin: Look, why take a chance? At least that’s the way I feel about it.

    The next 5 minutes of the movie are scenes of various guys getting whacked.

  132. 132.

    Archon

    Let’s say every allegation about Trump is true, that he is basically a Russian asset committing sedition against the United States due to some form of blackmail. Are we sure we want to know that? What if the Republican Party and Trump supporters have concluded that they have already crossed the Rubicon with Trump and there is no going back? Are we ready for that?

    I’m just worried that Republicans might feel compelled to back Trump no matter what and civil unrest with an excuse to crackdown on that unrest will be following Mueller indictments. If that happens, we are at the abyss…

    I guess my point is we shouldn’t assume for a second that there is some Trump endgame where Republicans come to their senses and do the right thing.

  134. 134.

    hueyplong

    No, Archon, the American voters come to their senses, vote out Republicans, and elected Democrats do the right thing.

  136. 136.

    different-church-lady

    @germy: We’re headed for evidence that vote totals were manipulated. My gut and current trajectory say so.

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    O/T, but what happened to the “Cruel to be Kine” thread? I guess mistermix pulled it :-(

  141. 141.

    Amir Khalid

    @MisterForkbeard:
    I wonder if “no harm, no foul” works as a defence in a criminal trial. I suspect that once the prosecution has established criminal intent, it does not. Can any lawyer jackals enlighten me on this?

  143. 143.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: Exactly. And notice none of this has to do with the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting. Or the attempts to reach Assange. Or Cambridge Analytica. Etc.

  145. 145.

    Mike in DC

    Piece by piece. Bit by bit. Drip, drip. Tick tock tick tock. Bobby Three Sticks is putting together a case against a big target, and the list of big noncooperating targets happens to be shrinking.

  149. 149.

    J R in WV

    Have NOT read the thread of comments, but posted this comment on the thread where the indictment was first linked to, reposting here on the post about the indictment:

    Wow, what a news drop for Friday afternoon. Reading the actual document, into page 17 of 37 pages, here’s a money quote:

    43. By 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used their fictitious online personas to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.

    I’ve believed Bernie Sanders was a Russian stooge since the first time I heard him speak about a real subject. Now we know that as far as the Russians were and are concerned, he is one of them!

    Now I’ve finished reading the indictment. The Foreman of the Grand Jury signed it TODAY, so they didn’t hold it for more than a few minutes. That signature, from a regular person recruited for jury duty, made my day!! AS did seeing the Robert S. Mueller III signature.

  150. 150.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: And this isn’t actually the hacking part. The stuff dealing with the data breaches and phishing of the DNC, DSCC, DCCC, and members of the Clinton campaign team isn’t dealt with today. That stuff, and how it seemed to get to the President’s allies and people on the campaign, is something we’re still waiting for Mueller to fill us in on.

  151. 151.

    Davis X. Machina

    I’m just worried that Republicans might feel compelled to back Trump no matter what

    The organs of the State — the legal system, the popular assemblies, the state intelligence services — exist to serve the needs of the Party, and its Chairman, not the other way round. The Party after all is the Vanguard of the Revolution, not the State. And sailing the seas depends on the Helmsman. The State in fact is fated to wither away in any event.

    I expect footage of Trump doing some distance swimming soon

  153. 153.

    ruemara

    @Archon: I don’t think anyone assumes that. I think most assume the opposite. Nothing we’re hearing now matches the wealth of insider intel Congress had from back in 2016. by this point, presume those saying it’s a nothingburger are part of the nothingburger patty makers association.

  155. 155.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @germy:

    Damn. Them lawyer types are usually pretty good at realizing that smart people use particular words for particular reasons.

  156. 156.

    Corner Stone

    @Archon:

    Let’s say every allegation about Trump is true, that he is basically a Russian asset committing sedition against the United States due to some form of blackmail. Are we sure we want to know that?

    Yes. Period.

  159. 159.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If I was the COS, the Director of Strategic Comms, the Director of Advance, and/or the Press Secretary I would be cancelling all events. And contacting the President’s cellphone service provider to arrange for a long weekend of service outage. Or having the Secret Service put a scrambler at Emolument a Lago to interfere with cell service so he can’t tweet.

    Followed by a whiskey, a hastily written note and a revolver in the library.

  161. 161.

    Aimai

    @Bobby Thomson: this. I think if bernie was too egotistical to grasp that he was a tool of the russians during the campsign he should have realized it by now. I hope he apologizes to HRC for acting like he should have won the nominatiin and looking like an asshole all through her convention. But im not holding my breath.

  162. 162.

    TenguPhule

    @Archon:

    Are we sure we want to know that? What if the Republican Party and Trump supporters have concluded that they have already crossed the Rubicon with Trump and there is no going back? Are we ready for that?

    Yes.

  165. 165.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Corner Stone:
    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Fret not. Snark, like misogyny, and racism, and inter-league play, and all the other epiphenomena of the prevailing late-capitalist mode of production for profit, will be swept into the dustbin of history after the Revolution.

  166. 166.

    TenguPhule

    @hueyplong:

    the American voters come to their senses, vote out Republicans, and elected Democrats do the right thing.

    And if that doesn’t work, Plan B.

  167. 167.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @debbie:

    The RWNJ forums where I poke about have a number of posts about “You show me how the Russians changed a single vote in the electoral college.”

    I think that is the ultimate fallback. Not collusion, not affecting the outcome, just no hard proof that actual electors were affected. Weak, I know, but that seems to be where it is headed.

  169. 169.

    Archon

    @ruemara: @ruemara:

    I hope you’re right and that Democrats, along with all the relevant institutions (media, FBI, etc) are preparing contingencies for a political party that’s prepared to go down with Trump, and not without a fight.

  170. 170.

    charluckles

    How can you conclusively determine whether this affected the outcome of the election? With all the moving parts, I dont see how you can quantify the Russian interference?

    Regardless of that and regardless of any American collusion I still struggle to see how our country moves past this. The Russian attack was successful. And now the regime the Russians wanted is claiming the power to remake this nation. How are citizens supposed to just accept that?

  172. 172.

    Spanky

    @germy: No do-over, but with the Prez and Vice-Prez shown to be illegitimate, the Speaker moves up.

    I think I just threw up in my mouth.

  174. 174.

    Aleta

    I expect the RW will soon be actively, seriously undermining the FBI again.

    Something new for the fringe could be about FBI complicity with Democrats to take away guns, using today’s news that the FBI ignored a tip in early Jan about Cruz. Maybe they’ll also use the questionable document showing he was a Democrat in Oct ’16.

    And more smears from their binders-full, to be delivered to mainstream news, I suspect.

  175. 175.

    raven

    ” After the shooting, conservative news media said that the F.B.I. could have prevented the attack if it had not been spending so much time looking into Russian election interference.”

    I’d put the link in but ya’ll would have a fucking stroke banging out FTNYT.

  177. 177.

    Roger Moore

    @Fair Economist:
    IMO, the first thing to do to keep Wilmer and similar people under control is for the Democrats to require all candidates to submit at least their 7 most recent years of taxes. That should be the whole shebang, too, with all the worksheets, not just the final 1040. One of the things I resent most about his campaign was his unwillingness to share his taxes, since it helped to give legitimacy to Trump’s refusal to do the same.

  178. 178.

    ruemara

    @Archon: The media is not. The government is already in largely enemy hands and working as fast as they can to prevent fallout. It’s not them to be concerned about. It’s making sure the people know how far and how fast they fell for a con and for them to demand justice. That was always how it was going to end up. The conservatives won a massive amount of power and control. They were never going to give that up.

  179. 179.

    joel hanes

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’d take the “I got sold a bill of goods about Hillary and I’ll learn from it.”

    Breath-holding not advised; we like you around here, and would hate to see you asphyxiated.

    What we’re likely to get is
    – one or two shame-faced admissions
    – a whole lot of quiet slinking-away from things said in 2016, hoping no one ever mentions them again.
    – a noisy sliver who will never admit that their Hillary-hate and CDS were and are ill-founded, and who will still react emotionally to Sec. Clinton as if she personally slaughters fat progressive babies to make each morning’s breakfast sausage

  182. 182.

    p.a.

    What is the timeline? Do the indictments include possible Trussian interference in the Rethug primaries too? Outside Mueller’s purview? Or if investigatable, can this cast the net even wider?

  183. 183.

    TenguPhule

    @Spanky:

    but with the Prez and Vice-Prez shown to be illegitimate, the Speaker moves up.

    And he goes down for Treason. And we keep on going down the line until we run into a Democrat.

  184. 184.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Aaannnnnddd – We have a presidential tweet!

    Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong – no collusion!

  185. 185.

    Major Major Major Major

    @charluckles:

    How can you conclusively determine whether this affected the outcome of the election? With all the moving parts, I dont see how you can quantify the Russian interference?

    Well, that’s probably why the criminal allegations don’t include it.

  186. 186.

    Adam L Silverman

    @moops: That’s Risen’s take. He is not correct.

    These are the tracks:
    1) Russian interference in the election. This includes the hacking and phishing, the troll farms and the bots. Basically the active measures and cyberwarfare campaign to influence the American electorate in order to prevent Hillary Clinton from being elected and to ensure that Donald Trump was elected president. And, perhaps, suppressing enough of the vote to ensure that the Democrats couldn’t flip the Senate and/or the House.
    2) What, if any, connections exist between the Trump campaign, including surrogates, as well as other campaigns such as Jill Stein’s and any other Americans and/or American organizations, with the Russians to influence the American electorate in order to prevent Hillary Clinton from being elected and to ensure that Donald Trump was elected president. And, perhaps, suppressing enough of the vote to ensure that the Democrats couldn’t flip the Senate and/or the House.
    3) Obstruction of justice by the President and others to cover up 2 above in order to frustrate both the counterintelligence and criminal investigations.
    4) The financial crimes investigation into the President’s, his children’s, his son in law’s, his son in law’s family’s, and many of his associate’s (Michael Cohen for instance) businesses that have been uncovered as a result of the counterintelligence and criminal investigations.

    That’s the four components of the investigation.

  188. 188.

    GregB

    President Moron just tweeted that the Russian attacks started in 2014. Destroying his hoax talking point and making it more suspect about his lack of sanctions on the entity that has been launching these attacks since 2014.

  189. 189.

    Corner Stone

    @joel hanes:

    a noisy sliver who will never admit that their Hillary-hate and CDS were and are ill-founded, and who will still react emotionally to Sec. Clinton as if she personally slaughters fat progressive babies to make each morning’s breakfast sausage

    Not a sliver but the overwhelming amount of Trump voters.

  193. 193.

    Davis X. Machina

    4. The financial crimes investigation into the President’s, his children’s, his son in law’s, his son in law’s family’s, and many of his associate’s (Michael Cohen for instance) businesses that have been uncovered as a result of the counterintelligence and criminal investigations

    That’s covered by the free exercise clause of the First Amendment.
    Money is their God.

  195. 195.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Archon: We have no choice. The only way out is through. You want a more perfect union? You want a Republic? Now is the time to decide if we not just can keep, but are willing to do the hard work to keep it.

  197. 197.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: Only if it is a Ruger Speed Six in .357 magnum. I have standards.

    Also, alcohol and firearms DO NOT mix!

    That said Loch Dhu single malt please.

  199. 199.

    joel hanes

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Three Days of the Condor

    I saw that first-run, and last fall, in an effort to communicate with my family about what’s going on in what remains of our government, I got them to watch it with me (I was particularly after the ending, in which the CIA supervisor explains to the Redford character that it’s blindingly naive to just assume that the NYT will reliably print truth to power in pursuit of the public good)

    I had forgotten about the love scene. Holy Christ has feminism changed the culture.
    We all winced all the way through the she-likes-to-be-forced sequence, and I’m afraid that anything of merit in the film may have been lost on my most feminist niece because of it. I can’t say I blame her.

  201. 201.

    Fair Economist

    @Major Major Major Major:

    California now has a law to that effect.

    No, passed by the legislature, but vetoed by Governor Brown.

    A position to consider when choosing who to support in this year’s gubernatorial election.

  202. 202.

    Corner Stone

    @bemused: He wants to do a show-by when no one can gather to protest or yell at him. They can then strike it off and he gets back to golfing all long weekend.
    The last damn thing Trump wants to do is see any of those parents/families at Parkland. And to be fair, if I were him I would not want to either. As Adam said earlier, his staff really should cancel everything and put him in silent mode. Trump is just as likely to start saying there were fine people on both sides, both sides, as he is to offer anything approaching a comfort.

  203. 203.

    GregB

    @raven:

    That talking point falls a bit hollow now that Trump has admitted Russia has bene launching information warfare since 2014.

    Also, Putin told Trump that he wasn’t involved. Will Trump now publicly call out Putin? Lulz.

  204. 204.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Now wait, I am confused here. Is the Mueller investigation a witch hunt or did the Russians start attempting to subvert the US elections in 2014?

    It can’t be both.

  208. 208.

    Corner Stone

    @GregB:

    Also, Putin told Trump that he wasn’t involved. Will Trump now publicly call out Putin? Lulz.

    But Putin said it very strongly. Very strongly. Every time Trump asked him. Very strongly that Putin believes he did not meddle.

  209. 209.

    joel hanes

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Trump skrev “long before I announced that I would run for President.”

    But long after Trump had become a useful tool of the Russian oligarchy, particularly for money-laundering.

  210. 210.

    Archon

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My point is we shouldn’t assume this is gonna end at the ballot box, this is going to end on the streets, if were lucky. Hopefully not with violence, but anyone who thinks the elites in this country and the Republican party is gonna be put to heal without civil unrest and/or strikes is fooling themselves.

  211. 211.

    James E. Powell

    @Roger Moore:

    It doesn’t even need to be the whole country. If Iowa and New Hampshire would make full financial disclosure a ballot requirement, it would take care of the problem.

  213. 213.

    Aleta

    Can only hope there’s a positive reason why today’s indictments stop at naming Russians. Such as: firing another warning shot to make conspirators nervous over the weekend, give them second thoughts about turning. Or aiding the Rep. rush to say that this shows no involvement on the their side, while waiting for them to say something provably false.

    Seems like Mueller must have had the information in these indictments for a long time and (here’s hoping) is working way beyond that piece at present.

    Still prepared to have my wildest dreams dashed though.

  215. 215.

    joel hanes

    @Corner Stone:

    I intended to enumerate subsets of the Wilmer-or-bust contingent, so I had not bothered to include Trump’s actual supporters.

    But you are undoubtedly correct. Unreachable, almost all of them.

  217. 217.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Fair Economist: ah, I thought I remembered reading he signed it.

    A position to consider when choosing who to support in this year’s gubernatorial election.

    Porque? I mean, it was stunt, possibly unconstitutional (since it applied to primaries right?) legislation.

    ETA I have obviously forgotten many details about it so be nice

  218. 218.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Now is the time to decide if we not just can keep, but are willing to do the hard work to keep it.

    And believe me, getting Trump up on that gallows is going to hard. His dead weight alone is at least 300 pounds.

  223. 223.

    joel hanes

    @James E. Powell:

    If Iowa

    Iowa gets more and more irrationally Republican with each passing year.
    (Population is getting grayer and less educated because all the bright young people move away and never come back)
    I would not look to that state for any good-government measure anytime soon.

  224. 224.

    Fair Economist

    @debbie:

    Not Wilmer for Wilmer’s sake, but to fuck even more with Clinton. But you knew that.

    I’ve been thinking about this, and I realized this indictment shows ****ing with Clinton was NOT the ultimate goal of the Russians. It was secondary.

    The *ultimate* goal of the Russians was to get Trump elected.

    They interfered in the primary to get Trump nominated – even though he was widely agreed to be one of, if not the, weakest Republican candidate. If ****ing with Clinton were the goal they’d have been pushing a different Republican.

    The ultimate takeaway from the indictments today is that Trump and the Russians were indeed colluding. Perhaps it was unspoken – they knew they had financial strings on Trump, and knew Trump knew it, and no explicit agreement was necessary. But they were definitely colluding.

  225. 225.

    Corner Stone

    @TenguPhule:

    And believe me, getting Trump up on that gallows is going to hard. His dead weight alone is at least 300 pounds.

    You take that back! I have a Rear Admiral who stood at a podium and declared 239, and feeling fine.

  226. 226.

    Immanentize

    @joel hanes: I read the book, “Six Days of the Condor” before the movie came out. Besides covering a few more days?, it was a far better spy story than the movie ended up being….

  227. 227.

    TenguPhule

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    Now wait, I am confused here. Is the Mueller investigation a witch hunt or did the Russians start attempting to subvert the US elections in 2014?

    It can’t be both.

    Republicans: HOLD OUR BEER!

  229. 229.

    Fair Economist

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m just saying we should prefer candidates who support tax disclosure as a requirement for the California primaries over those that don’t, ceterisparabusandIknowitusuallyisnt. I also know there are Constitutional issues but – why not try?

  232. 232.

    tychay

    @MisterForkbeard: doubtful. My guess is his campaign, at least, will be implicated in collusion/conspiracy when all the evidence is out. Based on Bernie’s votes on sanctions, at this point, I wouldn’t be unsurprised if eventually he is personally implicated. The path to such things happens in increments and his wife represents a huge point of leverage.

  235. 235.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Yeah, didn’t you hear? Bobbie Mueller closed up shop and was last seen wandering around a parking lot outside a nondescript building in Alexandria carrying a cardboard box of personal stuff from his office trying to remember where he parked his Volvo. It’s done. Over. TOTAL VICTORY for TRUMP!

  238. 238.

    Captain C

    @GregB: No one’s ever accused him of being a great strategic, or even tactical thinker. All he’s ever been is a trust fund con man and attention hound.

  239. 239.

    Corner Stone

    Brennan just said, “Us officials” and then quickly corrected to “US persons”. HMMMMM…..

  243. 243.

    Steeplejack

    Can’t read the whole thing now, but where and when are we meeting to storm the castle? And do I need to bring a pitchfork and a torch, or just the pitchfork?

  244. 244.

    jimmiraybob

    Trump – “Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President.”

    Is that the same 2014 that came right after Trump’s 2013 “Miss Universe Moscow” adventure? What a coingkidink.

  246. 246.

    Amir Khalid

    @debbie:
    Wouldn’t the direct responsibility for the failure to keep an eye on Cruz lie with the agent in charge of the Miami office, rather than a bigwig in the Hoover building?

  247. 247.

    Corner Stone

    @Steeplejack:

    And do I need to bring a pitchfork and a torch, or just the pitchfork?

    You’d probably better bring a torch if you have one. All the local Lowes are running really low this season.

  248. 248.

    Kay

    The beauty part is it does not matter what the Trumpsters say. The big machine is started up and it doesn’t stop until it’s finished.

    Trump can announce “case closed” and media can even go along with him but Trump doesn’t control this. It’s not a matter of polling or vote totals or the volume level on Fox news. It just chugs along regardless until it’s done.

  250. 250.

    Kay

    I wondered if there was interference in the GOP primary because it makes perfect sense that there would be, so I’m pleased they found some.

    They wanted Donald Trump. Not Ted Cruz. Not Marco Rubio. Trump. So…why?

  252. 252.

    Elizabelle

    @debbie: More squid ink. Like those who are searching ceaselessly for the Las Vegas shooter’s motives. Why did he do it? Why? Why? Why?

    When the actual issue is: in both cases, these loons were able to legally purchase AR 15s. And Paddock (the LV jackhole) had a whole arsenal of them.

    The issue is not the motive. It’s the availability of guns.

    Now, obviously the FBI has to answer for not tracking this kid better, or identifying him, even when he used his own name (WTF?) But the real issue is: he was legally able to buy an AR 15, despite all manner of red flags.

  253. 253.

    Corner Stone

    Wait a second…13 people indicted. And a guy in FL which is right by Mississippi…don’t you see it? MS-13! Fucking immigrant gang members tried to meddle in our elections to keep The Wall from being built!

  254. 254.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    I think it was a practice run for the Russians. They would have “supported” whoever won the nomination.

  257. 257.

    Brachiator

    @joel hanes:

    Three Days of the Condor

    I saw that first-run, and last fall, in an effort to communicate with my family about what’s going on in what remains of our government, I got them to watch it with me (I was particularly after the ending, in which the CIA supervisor explains to the Redford character that it’s blindingly naive to just assume that the NYT will reliably print truth to power in pursuit of the public good)

    The movie recently played here in Southern California via one of the cable stations or streaming services. I guess a remake would have the Redford character loading the info via the Internet or Twitter or something.

    I had forgotten about the love scene. Holy Christ has feminism changed the culture.
    We all winced all the way through the she-likes-to-be-forced sequence, and I’m afraid that anything of merit in the film may have been lost on my most feminist niece because of it. I can’t say I blame her.

    Yeah. I had a similar reaction this time. I’m sure I did not react negatively when I first saw the film years ago. Took a look at a couple of reviews when the film came out, and not much of a hint of a problem with the scene.

  259. 259.

    Kay

    So if they do find coordination between Trump campaign/ allies and Russian government, AND Russian government and allies chose Trump over Cruz and Rubio, does that possibly piss off GOP voters?

    That was their primary. They were the people manipulated. Clinton voters were not manipulated. We voted for Clinton despite the Russian campaign to beat her. Maybe not because they all back Trump now.

  261. 261.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    Trump can announce “case closed” and media can even go along with him but Trump doesn’t control this. It’s not a matter of polling or vote totals or the volume level on Fox news.

    The exuberant screams of VINDICATION!! lead me to believe there will be a fierce strengthening in the calls for the Mueller probe to be terminated. “You got your guys, now go and try and round up them there Russkis! Nothing to see over here. No go away!”

  262. 262.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    They wanted Donald Trump. Not Ted Cruz. Not Marco Rubio. Trump. So…why?

    It also beggars the question – why did none of the R primary opponents use any oppo research against Trump? All this existed! Yet no one popped the cork. It was like being at a college area bar where beer was 5 cents until the first person went to the bathroom. Nobody wanted to be first and ruin the party?

  269. 269.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    So if they do find coordination between Trump campaign/ allies and Russian government, AND Russian government and allies chose Trump over Cruz and Rubio, does that possibly piss off GOP voters?

    C’mon Kay, you know the answer by now.

    No. Because her emails. SATSQ.

  270. 270.

    Kay

    Ari Melber
    ‏@AriMelber
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    Note attempted black voter suppression – Mueller indictment says Russians tried to suppress voter turnout of minorities

    I hope someone does a specific look into the racist aspects of this coordinated campaign. The BLM focus and the apparent Russian recognition that AA voter suppression would harm JUST Clinton.

  272. 272.

    Captain C

    @GregB: You just gave me a mental image of Trump wearing a Flavor Flav clock around his neck while doing abysmally bad attempts at rapping and dancing.

  273. 273.

    Kay

    @Corner Stone:

    They can scream all they want. There are millions of ordinary criminal defendants who can tell them once the big machine fires up it just goes and goes until it’s done.

  274. 274.

    Fair Economist

    @Amir Khalid:

    Wouldn’t the direct responsibility for the failure to keep an eye on Cruz lie with the agent in charge of the Miami office, rather than a bigwig in the Hoover building?

    More likely the direct responsibility lies with gunhumpers and white supremacists in the administration who have been ordering the FBI to leave people like this alone. The Miami office agents were probably just following orders to spend their time going after Latinos and Black Lives Matter.

  275. 275.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    There are millions of ordinary criminal defendants who can tell them once the big machine fires up it just goes and goes until it’s done.

    Unfortunately, these aren’t ordinary criminals. These are the folks who traditionally have escaped the machine because they know the machine’s blind spots and have exploited them for over twenty years.

    And now they have access to far too many of the machine’s controls and inner gears. The hardest part is still to come.

  276. 276.

    JPL

    @Kay: I didn’t read the entire indictment but it appears that they went after Cruz and Rubio.
    I sorta feel bad for Jeb.

  277. 277.

    The Moar You Know

    Only if it is a Ruger Speed Six in .357 magnum. I have standards.

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t have one but recently got to shoot a Redhawk in .44 caliber. That’s a fine firearm, as are most Rugers.

  278. 278.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Adam L Silverman: Good fucking grief… Loch Dhu[1]? I remember pouring a bottle of that “stuff” down a hotel room toilet to save ignorant Americans from their folly. I replaced it with a half-bottle of 12-year-old Bowmore I was carrying for just that sort of an emergency. I got some puzzled looks when they tasted it, as if they had never actually drunk a real single malt before which is entirely possible…

    [1] It translates, as much as Scotch labelling ever does, to “The Black Loch”. Evil in liquid form.

  282. 282.

    Adam L Silverman

    @The Moar You Know: They build them solid. My understanding is the problems with the newer models, if you want to call them problems, is the triggers aren’t as good as a Smith & Wesson Custom Shop trigger or the old Colt Pythons back when they were being made by the highest end gun smiths. But having a trigger/action job done on a Ruger revolver isn’t hard, nor is it that costly. Those things are built to last. And, if you run out of ammo, you can club your attacker, whether a bear or a human, to death with the things and you won’t do any damage to the revolver.

  284. 284.

    joel hanes

    @Kay:

    They wanted Donald Trump. … So…why?

    Why would one nation wish that the new President of its most important enemy/rival be an incompetent ? To ask is to have the answer.

    Also, Trump was already compromised by a decade or more of laundering money for Russian wiseguys, and he’s easily played even by those who aren’t a threat to him, and he’s too stupid and egotistical to see that he’s a tool. He’s the sacrificial goat.

    Making Trump President has greatly harmed, divided, and weakened the US.
    The effort to remove him and his cronies will futher distract and divide us for a while.
    Meanwhile, Putin …

  285. 285.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Robert Sneddon: I had it from the distillery when I lived in Scotland. I found it very, very smooth. Almost no burn. Perhaps you just got a bad batch. I’m also quite partial to Isle of Jura.

  286. 286.

    jimmiraybob

    @Robert Sneddon: A few years back I was at a local pub that deals in such things and the bartender brought a few bottles from the secret basement stash, one of them being Loch Dhu – I liked it. Of course, I also have drunk Pig’s Nose single malt in Wyoming and liked it. When it comes to scotch I’m currently fond of Lagavulin (16y) and Argbeg (10y). But then again, I’m more a bourbon guy. When all is said and done, I hope the sewer alligators appreciated your contribution.

  287. 287.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Aleta: Was just listening to conservative radio. They’re now saying that Wray and others need to go – this is the newest excuse for them.

  288. 288.

    Steeplejack

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Click on “Read Full Article” at this link and it should put you through to Mercer’s full column.

    ETA: In my experience, you can always find a link to the full Wall Street Journal article by Googling the exact title (with quotation marks).

  289. 289.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman:

    whether a bear

    Don’t mean to, uh, get too personal or anything. But you seem to be on a little bit of a bear tear today. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  292. 292.

    rikyrah

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    Mueller indictment of Russians starts to fill out the other side. Next: who are the actors in this country. The contours of the conspiracy are starting to be detailed. This is hugely significant.

    — Eric Holder (@EricHolder) February 16, 2018

  294. 294.

    James E. Powell

    @Kay:

    I’ve been saying it all along: the really big story of 2016 wasn’t Trump beating Clinton, but Trump beating all those well-funded and press/media-adored Republicans.

  296. 296.

    Captain C

    @joel hanes:

    Meanwhile, Putin …

    Will keep doing what he does, until he croaks, at which time Russia will likely look like a bad mashup of the Yeltsin era, the ’20s Prohibition gang wars in Chicago, and the ’80s and ’90s New York mob during and after the Five Families trials. Mostly the first two.

  297. 297.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    is anyone else charmed by the fact that Mueller signed the indictment with a fountain pen? I don’t know why, but that is just such a delightful touch. Feeds into the whole “this morning Robert Mueller got up and quietly went about doing his job” meme.

    Yes! And I love the quirkiness (from that supremely unquirky man) of making the “three sticks” in his signature horizontal rather than vertical. IANAG, but I found it a fetching conceit.

  303. 303.

    Miss Bianca

    @Archon: We’re not assuming any such thing. At this point, regarding Republican “endgames” and Trumpian end times, I’m with Bugs Bunny: “of course you know, this means war”.

  304. 304.

    Miss Bianca

    @raven: wasn’t somebody just predicting here yesterday – or hell, could have been this morning, seems I’m aging in dog years during the Trump administration – that this would become a RW/Trumpian meme?

  307. 307.

    Miss Bianca

    @Corner Stone: well, like so, so much that seems to be happening in the post-Trumpian universe, I think liberals’ commitment to targeted violence in response to “shit gettin’ real” is one of those things, like the numbers marching at women’s rallies, that is going to fly under the MSM reporting radar. And thank God for that.

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks