Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

The way to stop violence is to stop manufacturing the hatred that fuels it.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Dear legacy media: you are not here to influence outcomes and policies you find desirable.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Petty moves from a petty man.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Closing In On Manafort

Closing In On Manafort

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I see that there is some interest in the latest guilty plea in the Mueller investigation. I’m not sure I can do this justice, because it’s pretty complicated and IANAL. Perhaps some of our lawyers can chime in.

Let’s start with the basics:

Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a charge against a lawyer for lying to investigators about his interaction with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates in September 2016.

Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty Tuesday afternoon. The filing is further evidence of Mueller’s investigation of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Gates and their work for Russian-allied clients.

Van Der Zwaan is also accused of lying about the failure to turn over an email communication to the special counsel’s office. He was speaking with investigators about his work with Skadden Arps in 2012, when Manafort arranged for the firm to be hired by the Ukrainian Minister of Justice to prepare a report on the trial of Yulia Tymoshenko.

She is one of the top political rivals of former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who hired Manafort and Gates as political consultants for more than a decade.

Now Mueller has one more plea deal from one more person who can tell him about Manafort’s activities. Tick tock, Manafort.

Here’s the New York Times. Skadden Arps says it fired Van Der Zwaan last year and has been cooperating with the investigation.  Van Der Zwaan is the son-in-law of oligarch German Khan, who is connected to Alfa Bank. It was an Alfa Bank computer that was communicating with a Trump computer via a DeVos computer.

That’s all I know. Help me figure it out.

And open thread!

Reader Interactions

159Comments

  2. 2.

    opiejeanne

    DeVos. As in Betsy DeVos? I have no idea what to say I’m so startled by all of those computers talking to each other, especially that last one.

  13. 13.

    Origuy

    From last year:

    President Trump’s nominee to lead the Justice Department’s criminal division, Brian A. Benczkowski, said on Tuesday that he helped Russia’s Alfa Bank investigate whether its computer servers contacted the Trump Organization.

    The Senate still hasn’t confirmed him.

  15. 15.

    LAO

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m trying to figure it out and will let you know what the local NY legal gossip is when it reaches me. This is very interesting to me though because I believe that Manafort is expecting a presidential pardon (I know, I know what about Schneiderman) so I’m not sure Mueller can exert enough pressure on Manafort to flip him. And turning Manafort into a cooperating witness has to be Mueller end game here, I would think that delving into his lobbying efforts has to be directed toward that goal.

  17. 17.

    terraformer

    I hope it doesn’t come to it, but I wonder what will happen if Trump simply pardons everyone, including himself? I know the right-leaning legal minds are advocating for that based on several articles as of late.

    Can he really do that, essentially issuing a pardon for himself and every single person involved, such that they all can just walk away? And there’d be nothing anyone can do about it?

  19. 19.

    Tom Levenson

    @LAO: Would part of the approach be for Mueller to let Manafort know that Schneiderman is paralleling his work, and that no Presidential pardon is going to keep him out of state prison?

  20. 20.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I was just going to write something similar —
    Plus, they are not caught all the time. Depend how big the case is and ho determined the prosecutor is. Here, the case is big and the prosecutor is very determined.

  22. 22.

    Brachiator

    Here’s the New York Times. Skadden Arps says it fired Van Der Zwaan last year and has been cooperating with the investigation. Van Der Zwaan is the son-in-law of oligarch German Khan, who is connected to Alfa Bank. It was an Alfa Bank computer that was communicating with a Trump computer via a DeVos computer.

    Let’s see. We’ve gone from fake news to deep state. Is this the part now where the whiny ass titty baby Trump blames Obama for not cracking down on the Ruskies and thus tarnishing the glory of Trump’s electoral victoy?

  23. 23.

    eric

    @terraformer: Pardons are not silver bullets because they can remove fifth amendment protections which means two things: you cannot refuse to answer questions and if you lie then you have no pardon for those lies. If you want to use pardons, you need to do it very carefully, especially if the Dems regain either chamber and can subpoena people. No fifth amendment means no refusal to answer questions or respond to subpoenas.

  24. 24.

    Another Scott

    It was an Alfa Bank computer that was communicating with a Trump computer via a DeVos computer.

    That “Trump computer talking to those other shady Russian computers was totally normal and innocent” always struck me as not passing the laugh test. Snopes had a summary. I didn’t know that DeVos was also involved (it’s not mentioned in the Snopes piece).

    It’s good that Mueller’s team is trying to figure all that out…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  25. 25.

    Roger Moore

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Their big mistake is the underlying crime. When they’re at the point of talking to a federal agent, they’re stuck. If they tell the truth, they’re admitting to a crime. If they lie, they’re committing a new, albeit lesser, crime. If they take the fifth, they’re painting a target on their back.

  26. 26.

    MCA1

    @Tom Levenson: I don’t think that would be necessary. Manafort’s lawyers are quite aware of the potential state charges out there and they’ve read the news. But it might not hurt theatrically to remind him of it now and then. :^)

    Manafort’s game strategy may be to deal with the dragon he can fight right now, and hope for a federal pardon, then hope that something shifts in the sand by the time Schneiderman’s indicting him.

  28. 28.

    Steve in the ATL

    Random thoughts:

    1. This blog discriminates against people on the west coast. Posting drops precipitously by midnight EST. As an adjunct Californian, I am deeply troubled by this.

    2. When can we have the long overdue national conversation about who is, and more importantly, who isn’t, allowed to wear yoga pants in public?

  30. 30.

    LAO

    @Tom Levenson: I would assume so, but even if Mueller wasn’t explicit — Manafort’s lawyer is certainly aware of the parallel Schneiderman investigation and knows that any deal that was worked out would have to “cover” both investigations.

    ETA: MCA1 got there first.

  31. 31.

    Percysowner

    @terraformer: He can’t pardon himself. Once he pardons everyone else, they can be compelled to testify against him because they can’t pull the “may incriminate myself” as a reason to not testify. The added complication is if anyone violated state laws. The President can only pardon people for Federal crimes, so there may be pressure to put there. I suspect Mueller has noted any state laws that were violated, just in case the pardon pen comes out. I can’t believe these yahoos didn’t break state laws as well. They’re all so corrupt.

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    Sounds like a comic book villain.

    And when German gets really really angry, is that’s what known as the Wrath of Khan?

  36. 36.

    eric

    @LAO: I would also think that each and every state where Manafort filed taxes may want to have a word with him. A very expensive word.

  37. 37.

    StringOnAStick

    I’ve read about this a few places this am and it struck me that Mueller knows this guy illegally destroyed emails requested by the FBI, probably because Mueller obtained them by other means. If our newest indictment recipient was (a) an attorney and therefore familiar with, you know, the law, and (b) thought be could get away with destroying those emails, those emails must be very,very interesting. As in “roadmap” interesting.

  38. 38.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Roger Moore:

    Their big mistake is the underlying crime. When they’re at the point of talking to a federal agent, they’re stuck. If they tell the truth, they’re admitting to a crime. If they lie, they’re committing a new, albeit lesser, crime. If they take the fifth, they’re painting a target on their back.

    Nice

  39. 39.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @LAO:

    I believe that Manafort is expecting a presidential pardon

    Only a fool would expect Trump to rescue them from anything. He’s not just selfish, he’s mean and paranoid. So far the investigation has ground up a fair amount of meat, and the only pardon Trump issued was to make a statement that brutalizing brown people will never be a crime in HIS America. I mean, it could happen, but you’d be the dumbest of the dumb to count on one.

  40. 40.

    Hoodie

    @LAO: Would the pardon protect Manafort’s assets? Normally, a guy his age would be just as interested in that, as his family would be bankrupt, unless he’s a total shit who only cares about dodging jail time.

  43. 43.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I keep thinking that Manafort must have a ticket to Rostov to join his old friend Yanukovych at any time, but apparently all his financial assets are in the US.

  47. 47.

    The Dangerman

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    ….a company owned by Betsy DeVos’s family.

    Oh, what a tangled web we weave when … we first practice to enrich Donald J. Trump even more.

  48. 48.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: Although Manafort is certainly a target, I am certain he is like the Freeport stop on the LIR to Montauk. Let us consider — Gates said his lawyer lied about one transaction that Scadden Arps probably made a boatload on. Scadden says they fired Mr. Der Zwann a year ago and is cooperating. That means Mueller has the firm by the balls, a la Enron’s accounting firm. Hmmm….

    So, what else was Der Zwann doing when working with Alpha Bank? We will probably find out. This looks like the BCCI scandal investigation, but this one goes deep into our political system. As I noted last Friday — Gates was also the person responsible (at least by some accounts) of the GOP platform switch on Ukraine (thanks, G&T). So, funding streams, direct Russian-positive policy initiatives. Der Zwaan is probably a much more connected fish than even Monafort. Like I said last week, forget flipping Monafort, he has been bypassed an dis now roadkill.

  49. 49.

    Elmo

    @terraformer: There’s *already* only one thing that can be done, and it’s true whether he pardons everyone or not.

    WIN ELECTIONS.

    Mueller is part of the Executive Branch. He could get Manafort and Kushner and Don Jr. all on tape admitting that they sold access to American secrets directly to the Kremlin in exchange for help getting elected, and it will make no difference – *none* – unless we win back control of Congress. Without control of Congress, what is the Mueller endgame people are hoping for?

    Indictments? Of anyone who *matters?* So what? This Administration will not send its own principals to prison.

    Impeachment? Without Dem control of both houses? Pipe dream.

    Mueller is fun to watch, and the constant drip drip drip revelations of corruption will probably help us win elections. So to that extent it’s great. But eyes on the prize – nothing of substance will come of any of these investigations, indictments, or guilty pleas, unless we get control of Congress.

  50. 50.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @LAO:
    Plenty of other people have had important dirt, and Trump hung them out to dry. Trump is so mean and selfish he fails to do the obvious on a daily basis. But hey, no doubt he promised Manafort that he would sign a pardon in two weeks.

  51. 51.

    Roger Moore

    @terraformer:

    Can he really do that, essentially issuing a pardon for himself and every single person involved, such that they all can just walk away? And there’d be nothing anyone can do about it?

    He can issue pardons, but they have three big limitations:

    1) He can only pardon federal crimes; the Constitution specifies “Offences against the United States”. That means any state crimes are still open.
    2) Pardons are explicitly not valid as protection against impeachment, so it wouldn’t protect him against being impeached.
    3) Once somebody has been pardoned, they are no longer in jeopardy of punishment for the crime they’ve been pardoned for*, so they’d no longer be able to rely on the 5th Amendment as justification for not testifying. This could be important in the case of impeachment.

    There are also two possible, but untested worries:

    1) It’s not legally clear if the president can pardon himself. This would be especially nasty for him if he had made it harder for his co-conspirators to remain silent by denying them a 5th Amendment reason to stay silent with a pardon.
    2) It’s possible that a pardon for corrupt reasons could be classified as obstruction of justice.

    *Thought this would not apply if there’s an equivalent state-level offense they could be charged with.

  52. 52.

    opiejeanne

    @Cheryl Rofer: BP? British Petroleum? As in that guy who whined that he was having a really bad week after the oil platform blew up because he was being criticized? They really are a nest of vipers.

  54. 54.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Here’s a Vox explainer. Key takes:

    The key piece of information in all of this is the timing: Manafort resigned as Trump’s campaign manager on August 19, 2016 — weeks before the alleged conversations between Gates, Person A, and van der Zwaan. The resignation was the result of widespread reporting about Manafort’s shady ties to Yanukovych, particularly an allegedly off-the-books payment.

    If Gates and van der Zwaan were talking about the Skadden report in September 2016, and van der Zwaan felt the need to lie to the FBI about it, it suggests that there may have been something criminal about the report’s production — or at least, something whose release would be politically damaging.

    and

    What this shows, more than anything else, is how methodical and wide-ranging the Mueller investigation is — that it’s willing to look all the way back to an obscure report from the winter of 2012 in order to get to the truth about the Trump-Russia scandal. Mueller is starting at the lowest level, with seemingly unrelated people like van der Zwaan, to get to the big fish.

  55. 55.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Interesting. I’m close to being convinced. It will be interesting (from my perspective as a little law person?) to see exactly how big law Skadden deals with this.

  56. 56.

    burnspbesq

    @MCA1:

    The problem that nobody can make go away for Manafort is the IRS civil action to collect penalties for willful failure to file FBARs. Even if Mueller puts in a good word for Manafort, there is no certainty that Chuck Rettig (assuming he is confirmed, and he should be, because he’s Trump’s first competent nominee for anything) will call off the dogs.

  57. 57.

    Faithful lurker

    I want to know more,please, about the DeVos company computer. Is that a commercial brand name like Dell or Apple,or was it leased from a DeVos company or was the info routed from Alfa through the DeVos computer and then to Trump?
    I hate the DeVos family with a white hot rage and want them dragged in

  58. 58.

    Barbara

    Gates also deleted and then failed to produce emails he exchanged with the unnamed person in September, the charging document says.

    That’s from one of the articles linked to above. I can just imagine Gates’ first visit with his recently hired replacement attorney, accompanied by some bright young associate, who starts out by saying “there is something called metadata . . .” and ends with, “so you are stone cold busted buddy.” No way to argue your way out of having withheld documents and lied about it.

  59. 59.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: We had those little bracelets made of stretchy rubber made for our juvenile clients that say. “I want a lawyer, I will not talk to you.”

    And pro-tip: if you are so frazzled that you can only remember one thing — say “I WANT A LAWYER!” Tattoo it on your palm, as needed.

  63. 63.

    scav

    Being a bear of little brain and zero experience on such cases in such an arena, how common is it to go after the lawyers? It seems to to this non-initiate to a) potentially undermine anywhere along the legal curtainwall, as individual lawyer/stones feel dread, angst or strong urges toward self-preservation and b) [especially here] signal a quick glimpse of the sheer size of the deck team M already knows about and is playing with.Quick flash of the knife.
    Probably blindingly obvious, but how common is it?

  64. 64.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: This is one of Big Law’s inherent weaknesses. Skadden has what? 1600-1700 lawyers these days? All over the world? Firms like that are not legal firms (like yours) as much as they are a business model. As long as people are making their allotted amount and creating more book, the firm really doesn’t have the controls in place to monitor all bad actors other than a reliance on their ethical behavior. That’s what professional insurance is for, amirite? This bigness allows the firm to claim that the bad actor was a loan wolf, but there are always at least twenty people, ten of them other lawyers, in the firm also in on the illegal activities….

  66. 66.

    Origuy

    @opiejeanne: It’s much more complicated than that. German Khan was head of Alfa Group, a Russian consortium, which bought a state-owned oil company, Tyumen OIl. He sold half of Tyumen Oil to BP. Later, that split off to a new company, TNK-BP, which eventually was bought by the Russian state-owned Rosneft. I’ve probably left out a few things, but it’s all in the Wikipedia article. I’m not sure he had anything to do with Deepwater Horizon, though.

  67. 67.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Come to think of it, one of the nastiest encounters I had with Andrew Weissmann had to do with a 1001 prosecution. Years ago, my firm represented a low level mafia type, who took a plea during the middle of trial. He was released on bail and skipped town before sentencing. The FBI went to his wife and asked if she knew where he was — she lied. Not only did she lose her home — it was the collateral for the bond — Weissmann prosecuted her and she wound up with a felony conviction. Thankfully, the Judge sentenced her to probation. He really is a dick.

  68. 68.

    Immanentize

    @burnspbesq: Not really — Skadden learned from Anderson and is immediately coming to the table throwing all their liabilities away. Anderson tried to bluster it out. Skadden is due for a crack up irrespective of this case.

  69. 69.

    eric

    @Immanentize: except professional insurance likely would not cover these sorts of bad acts. Moreover, I would bet Skadden has a seven figure deductible. I would worry that this lawyer used Skadden’s platform for RICO activities.

  70. 70.

    Barbara

    @scav: It’s not common but there are several possibilities, one being that there was no attorney client relationship with Gates, or that if there was with Gates or Manafort or whoever else, that the privilege was waived. Another would be that Muller raised questions about the completeness of the production and, without regard to any attorney client privileged information, asked to speak to the attorney who actually supervised the collection of documents. You don’t have the right to lie about things like that just because you represent one of the parties under investigation.

  72. 72.

    Gin & Tonic

    @burnspbesq: This. As I said downstairs, Manafort had an office in Kyiv. I’m certain that every document and every computer in that office has been copied by the Ukrainian authorities and sent to DC. The FBI had people in Kyiv for a long time last year, too. The Ukrainians want Manafort in prison.

  73. 73.

    Immanentize

    @scav: It is common in certain money laundering or mob cases. The attorney client privilege is a hard nut to crack, but once one does, the whole tree of nuts falls to the ground. Questions I have — was Der Zwaan a US lawyer? Were his contracts US contracts or foreign contracts? Does the US ethical standards regarding client confidentiality apply to, say, DZ’s Russian clients? If DZ revealed no confidential information until after he left Skadden, they will probably escape liability for his unethical breech of duty to the clients. then again, Skadden could be sued for malpractice if there were any other people on other sides of DZ’s dealings. Skadden will be liable for those damages in theory.

  74. 74.

    RobNYNY

    @schrodingers_cat:

    “German” is the Russian form of “Herman,” which lacks an “H” sounds. (Hence, Garry Truman and Adolf Gitler.)

    Khan is a pretty common name in Asian countries with a large Moslem population. I don’t know what German Khan’s connection is to that.

  75. 75.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: Yes he is, but at this moment, he is our dick.
    Someone mentioned this above — but have we heard anything at all about forfeitures? I am positive that they got Gates to flip the old fashioned way, by threatening his wife and kids with penury, conspiracy and worse….

  76. 76.

    Ohio Mom

    @Immanentize: That is genius. And very thoughtful. I hope this idea gets copied widely.

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: The NYT had an important op-ed on yoga pants this past Sunday. It appears to be getting a lot more attention than the op-ed they solicited from a Tea Party leader who is complaining that what’s going on now isn’t what she signed up for.
    Though to be fair, the statements made in the yoga pants essay are a lot more credible than anything the Tea Partier says.

  78. 78.

    burnspbesq

    @LAO:

    Is he actually a dick, or does he just like his job a little too much? For a counter-example, I really like Andrew Ceresney, but I don’t have any illusions about what it would be like to have him on the other side of the table.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m certain that every document and every computer in that office has been copied by the Ukrainian authorities and sent to DC.

    I totally agree. And Ukraine is not the only country happily sharing its intelligence with the FBI right now.

  85. 85.

    eric

    @Immanentize: yes, but they dont often (ever) have a dogged special prosecutor with his nose under the tent and looking for leverage. These are people that will do ANYTHING to protect themselves. Plus, if they have any emails left on their servers, it is their property to produce and not the former lawyer’s.

  87. 87.

    RobNYNY

    @SiubhanDuinne: “White shoe” was formerly used to describe the old WASPy New York law firms like Davis Polk & Wardwell and Cravath Swain & Moore. Skadden is not really one of them, but I think that is the reference.

  89. 89.

    Gin & Tonic

    @RobNYNY:

    “German” is the Russian form of “Herman,”

    Although an analysis of velar fricatives in the various Slavic languages would be interesting to about three people here, and your statement is basically true, the fact remains that Herman or German or even Kherman is not a Slavic name. I’m not sure what the guy’s ethnic background is.

  90. 90.

    TenguPhule

    @Ohio Mom:

    The NYT had an important op-ed on yoga pants this past Sunday.

    Anything longer then “don’t wear them in public” is purple prose.

  91. 91.

    RobNYNY

    @Ninedragonspot:

    I thought that because of the H/G issue the various forms of Cohen end up as Kagan or Kogan in Russian. Maybe it’s a Ukrainian version. I’m just speculating.

  92. 92.

    Immanentize

    @Cheryl Rofer: From what I have read about the mysterious servers from Trump to Alpha Bank and Trump to DeVos, almost all of the traffic that has been publicly discussed is ‘pinging.’ May be just like using a doorbell — contact me, we have something to discuss. I am still wondering what happened to our San Antonio, Texas hipster dude that was the campaigns digital outreach guy. He was loud and proud last October before the shit got real. Now, silent as a grave.

    Facebook employees were embedded in President Donald Trump’s digital operations in San Antonio, adviser Brad Parscale told CBS News

  97. 97.

    Steve in the ATL

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    That said, I’m sure you’ll agree that Steve in the ATL should not go out in public wearing yoga pants.

    I have no illusions about where I belong on this question.

  99. 99.

    opiejeanne

    @Origuy: Thanks, and no I wasn’t implying that he had anything to do with Deepwater Horizon, just that it was THAT BP.

    I see we have circled back to Rosneft. They seem to be involved at many levels.

  100. 100.

    No Drought No More

    Former ambassador Nick Burns just redeemed Harvard’s reputation in my eyes to a degree that’s astonishing. Burns summed up the stakes just fine during an interview with Andrea Mitchell a few minutes ago. I’ve spent most my adult life in no uncertain disdain- not outright contempt- of Harvard’s incessant bragging about its oh-so-very-special collegiate ass. One of my favorite lines in all film is delivered by Ethel Merman in It’s A Mad, Mad.. World., when she accusingly demands to know of Terry Thomas “are you from Harvard”?

    Still, the turkey-talking champ since Sunday remains Howard Dean, who flat out stated on MSNBC that the republican party does not care about America. Repeat: DOES NOT CARE ABOUT AMERICA.

    Howard Dean is correct.

  102. 102.

    Bruce

    Just Google “de Vos computer Alfa bank” for a dose of schadenfreude; could be where the nexus of collusion will be found.

  104. 104.

    MCA1

    @burnspbesq: I’m sure that’s right, though it may be a tertiary concern on Manafort’s part right about now. What are the rough parameters of those penalties, out of curiosity?

    It will be interesting, if we live long enough to see it explained, to eventually learn of Manafort’s thought process through all of this. He very well may have “in what situation is it least likely I get murdered in the near future” as the primary trunk of his decision tree.

  105. 105.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I freely confess that until this thread I had never heard of Skadden Arps. Two possibilities came to mind immediately:

    1. Skädden Årps: archaic plucked stringed instruments, often used to accompany Scandinavian folk tunes;

    2. A rare medical affliction, usually confined to the cuticles and almost always fatal.

  108. 108.

    Jeffro

    It’s funny to think about (also: TERRIFYING, but less so by the day) that when Indictment Day finally comes for Trumpov, Jr, and a few other holdouts, the sheer amount of paper involved is going to require a forklift. And I sure hope they let Hillary drive it right up to the courthouse.

    I’m serious and so is Bobby Three Sticks. You KNOW his team is going to drop something like three dozen, four dozen charges all at once on Orangemandias’ head.

  113. 113.

    scav

    At a silly level, I’m rather enjoying the son-in-law angle getting another kick-about. Van Der Jared.

  114. 114.

    MattF

    We should, at least, reflect on the fact that Manafort was Trump’s campaign manager. A man whose flat-out amorality has been a legend in its own time. Trump will say that Manafort was just some guy he found on the streets near Trump Towers… But no, Manafort’s a perfect example of the sort of person Trump will hire for a dirty job. And not bother hiding it.

  116. 116.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MomSense:

    He may be concerned he could slip in the bathtub and fall off a balcony with the safety off if he goes anywhere near Russia.

    FTFY

  117. 117.

    alhutch

    @Another Scott: Laugh test or not, ever since I read this last year, I kept wondering if (and when) it would come back around:

    Trump Tower’s “Stealth Russian Data Machine” – Tea Pain wp.me/p8AbWe-q

    Database replication. Looks somewhat different now that charges have been brought by Mueller against the Russian Troll Farms. I try to steer clear of conspiracy theories as a rule, but hope that Mueller has at least run this down. Wonder how Parscale is feeling about now.

  121. 121.

    randy khan

    @Roger Moore:

    Their big mistake is the underlying crime. When they’re at the point of talking to a federal agent, they’re stuck. If they tell the truth, they’re admitting to a crime. If they lie, they’re committing a new, albeit lesser, crime. If they take the fifth, they’re painting a target on their back.

    Often, people who lie in those circumstances have an irrational belief that the people asking the questions never will figure out (or be able to prove) the truth. Sometimes it’s hard to recognize that being asked the question tells you that the feds already have the answer.

    Taking the Fifth is typically is the best option if you’ve actually committed the crime, and often if you haven’t. Defense lawyers often tell people who are suspects not to talk to the police at all.

  124. 124.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Jeffro:

    And I sure hope they let Hillary drive it right up to the courthouse.

    I can’t even fathom the quantity of Pinot Grigio she’s knocking back these days.

  127. 127.

    LAO

    @randy khan:

    Taking the Fifth is typically is the best option if you’ve actually committed the crime, and often if you haven’t. Defense lawyers often tell people who are suspects not to talk to the police at all.

    You don’t have to invoke the Fifth Amendment, unless and until the government obtains a grand jury subpoena. None of us have an obligation to speak to law enforcement in the absence of a subpoena or other court order.

  128. 128.

    evodevo

    @Chyron HR: Law firms like the one that employs whats-his-name are often referred to as “white shoe” law firms – they have a RICH well-heeled clientele. Hence the inside joke …

  131. 131.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: I just did read that post, and now I feel like lawyering up even tho’ I have *no* expectation of ever receiving that special call from the FBI.

    Because no ever expected the Spanish Inquisition, either, and look how *that* turned out!

  133. 133.

    Calouste

    @JPL: I wonder if Mueller’s team is trying to show Manfort violated his bail conditions so that they can put him back in jail and on suicide watch.

  134. 134.

    Bruce

    @Gin & Tonic: Manafort was working to pay off a large debt owed to Oleg Deripaska; Google “Manafort Deripaska” for the details (e.g. NYT, The Atlantic)

  135. 135.

    Miss Bianca

    @Librarian: @SiubhanDuinne:

    The full name of the firm is Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom. :^)

    Well, I don’t know about SD, but right now I’m picturing some weird Scandanavian/Mexican dessert tray…

  136. 136.

    Miss Bianca

    @MomSense: That sounds like a meet-up opportunity if ever there was one! I’m going to start saving my shekels for a bottle of Veuve Cliquot myself! (fave champagne and all)

  140. 140.

    PAM Dirac

    @Miss Bianca: My wife’s grandmother lived to age 96 and she was the platonic ideal of what people mean when they say, “She was something else!”. We used some of the money she left us to buy a case of Veuve Cliquot “La Grande Dame” and we toast her every year on her birthday. I’m sure Hilda wouldn’t begrudge us opening a bottle to celebrate the demise of the traitorous idiot.

  144. 144.

    PAM Dirac

    @PAM Dirac: It just occurred to me: we can drink the “Grande Dame” to celebrate the event and make the sparkling mead to commemorate the event for years to come.

  145. 145.

    burnspbesq

    @MCA1:

    What are the rough parameters of those penalties, out of curiosity?

    Greater of $100k or half of the highest balance in the account during the year. Per year.

  146. 146.

    Miss Bianca

    @PAM Dirac: I’ll drink to that idea!

    I’m trying to imagine the judges’ reaction if I ever entered it in a contest: “Why is it called ‘Sic Semper Tyrannis’?”

  147. 147.

    Kay (not the front pager)

    @Immanentize: I heard last week that the thing holding up a final plea agreement was how much Gates would be forced to forfeit. Prosecution may figure they don’t have to leave him with that much, as he’s young enough to rebuild at least some level of wealth after he serves his 18 months. Maybe they think his kids can get an education via student loans like everyone else.

    Do I sound bitter? Did I make it obvious I don’t have much sympathy for someone who is losing his fortune earned off the suffering of others?

  150. 150.

    Manxome Bromide

    @Elmo: It’s not just that reports of corruption and criminal behavior will probably hurt the Republicans in elections. (And it might not: we know it won’t flip the hard-core, and the resistance is plenty galvanized as it is. Who flips based on something like this?) It’s that these public indictments are the closest we’re likely to get to a real report on what happened.

    I’ve been approaching Trump/Russia as, essentially, a counterintelligence question. We were attacked. I want to know how, and I want to know what we’re doing about it. I’m just a citizen with no special access to secrets, though, so under most cases, if I hear about actual intelligence information, somebody’s screwed up hard.

    I’ve been enjoying the indictments not because they’re fun to watch but because they seem to be unusually detailed in spelling out what things happened where and when. I’m not sure if it’s the nature of the beast or if it’s being used as a sort of “alternative report” should Nunes succeed in making the House Intelligence Committee’s hearings completely worthless.

  152. 152.

    randy khan

    @LAO:

    You don’t have to invoke the Fifth Amendment, unless and until the government obtains a grand jury subpoena. None of us have an obligation to speak to law enforcement in the absence of a subpoena or other court order.

    That’s true. You always can decline the interview if you aren’t subject to a subpoena.

  154. 154.

    MomSense

    @Miss Bianca:

    It’s so good but I rarely get to enjoy it. I think the downfall of Il Douche is a worthy event. Revenge is a drink best served chilled!

  155. 155.

    Gin & Tonic

    @MomSense: I had a nice old bottle of single-malt saved up to toast HRC’s victory in November of 2016. I didn’t get to open it, but an indictment might get me to reconsider.

  159. 159.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    3. Skadden Arps, an English village in the Midlands, close to Lower Skadden and Skadden-supra-Mare. Known for its distinctive sharp cheese and an occasionally successful team in the fifth level of English football. Evolved near the site of Bronze Age ruins (“the Arps”) that have resisted all attempts at archaeological interpretation.

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